Friend of mine in Roanoke just texted me about this. The video's on YouTube for now. Absolutely nuts. It was just a morning news puff piece at Smith Mountain Lake, the resort where Dirty Dancing was filmed. Link - ( New Window )
when I opened the thread, I was expecting two reporters sitting in the Middle East somewhere taking heavy fire. Two people gunned down during a puff peace in a small town? WTF?!
this is fucking sick. Outside of Newtown or anything with children I don't know if there is anything more cowardly and horrific as what happens off camera on that video.
That's awful, just awful. I didn't read the OP well enough, I didn't see the "on air" part of the post. That was horrific. RIP to them, not easy to see people die on camera.
Hope they catch the shooter. There are some pretty clear images him so he should be easy to ID.
can't even watch the video. I agree with whoever said they thought this happened in the Middle East. Virginia? Unreal. Prayers to those who died and their families and friends. God bless. RIP.
The killing of the 2 reporters but not the interviewee
and U can see the shooter... Camera goes a bit sideways but with forensic video enhancement of the vid they should get a pretty decent capture of the dude who did it?? Fuck man...!!
and U can see the shooter... Camera goes a bit sideways but with forensic video enhancement of the vid they should get a pretty decent capture of the dude who did it?? Fuck man...!!
He supposedly appears to be wearing a mask and body armor.
Chilling but hopefully helpful that the camera was able to catch
Thats silly. No gun law would have stopped this. We need more guns to protect ourselves. A reputable news organization should be travelling with protection at all times to prevent this stuff.
Friend of mine in Roanoke just texted me about this. The video's on YouTube for now. Absolutely nuts. It was just a morning news puff piece at Smith Mountain Lake, the resort where Dirty Dancing was filmed. Link - ( New Window )
Dirty Dancing was filmed at Mountain Lake Resort near Penbrooke Virginia and at the old Boy's Camp at Lake Lure NC.
that when you have an increasing number of people carrying out random public attacks that it can still be classified as "gun law bullshit"
We have a problem that needs to be addressed, and looking at gun laws certainly seems like one area to at least give a review to.
For all of the stubborness the leadership at the NRA has exhibited over the years, their main challenge is becoming these attackers who are giving the vast majority of gun owners a bad name.
the Oklahoma Labor Commissioner was stabbed to death by his son in the parking lot of a restaurant. The son had been dealing with mental health issues for years.
There is a serious mental health problem out there. I wish I had some answers.
stalker nut job. This reporter obviously an entry level reporter who does fluff pieces for a local affiliate. I'm thinking possibly some nut fixated on her.
I dont think the topic is bullshit, I know you know that. 2 people just died and it's just an opportunity for certain people to immediately start that debate on a message board when the thread should be used for news about what happened. It's poor taste, IMO. Can't stop any of you, but every thread like this gets out of control with gun control topics.
Thats silly. No gun law would have stopped this. We need more guns to protect ourselves. A reputable news organization should be travelling with protection at all times to prevent this stuff.
They had a 24 and 27 year old out on remote. I doubt they're budgeting for protection.
Thats silly. No gun law would have stopped this. We need more guns to protect ourselves. A reputable news organization should be travelling with protection at all times to prevent this stuff.
We wont be truly safe until everyone is walking around with guns, obviously.
Julian Walker @juliantwalker1 3m3 minutes ago
.@GovernorVA on @WTOP says disgruntled @WDBJ7 alleged shooter driving on I-64, police in pursuit. In custody soon, Governor said.
Queen Veritas @QueenVeritas 2m2 minutes ago
Via scanner: police have found suspect's car at Roanoke airport. Still searching 4suspect. #WDBJ7 #journalistmurder
My post isn't political. I'd call any left-wing gun person a lunatic too. It's common sense. It only seems political because idiotic people continue to ignore an obvious problem.
So you are saying countries without substantial minority populations have far fewer gun deaths? Racist much?
Holy shit. This might be the most ignorant post I've seen here. Quite an accomplishment Homer. Your surname should be Simpson so we could keep the great Homer Jones in good stead.
Washington DC banned handguns and homicides dropped by 25% and gun suicides by 23% so it seems like Mike is onto something. Despite what the pro-gun people say banning guns does in fact see reduce murder and death. Link - ( New Window )
Washington DC banned handguns and homicides dropped by 25% and gun suicides by 23% so it seems like Mike is onto something. Despite what the pro-gun people say banning guns does in fact see reduce murder and death. Link - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting... the only thing I take issue with is the idea that I'm "onto something." I haven't discovered anything. This is simple, blatant, 3rd grade level cause-and-effect.
Oh my god, the killer is actively posting on Twitter
If he knew the victim and is changing vehicles to evade pursuit. Hopefully he'll give the police reason to end his days when they chase him down. Fucking coward that he is.
...where he complained that the photographer reported him to HR for something and the reporter had made racist comments to him. So that appears to be the fuel for this.
he took a POV style video of him a la Goldeneye going up to the reporter, pointing the gun, waiting, and then shooting 5 or 6 shots while she was trying to run away.
You're totally focused on the camera etc so you come across well. Vanity can kill you after all. The only one with a realistic chance to spot this coward was the cameraman and unfortunately his back was turned to him.
it was like a first person video game, that was one of the creepiest things I've ever seen. I feel like often I'm desensitized to violence given the nature of what's all over the news and internet, but wow.
RIP to these people and hopefully they catch this bastard ASAP
How did the reporter or interviewee not notice a guy pointing a gun at them 10 feet away?
Another reporter on twitter said that, when you're on camera, the camera is the only thing you're focusing on and it's not unusual not to notice things happening in the background.
I'm still just in shock at that twitter feed and video. Unbelievable.
actually getting shot. I think he dropped the phone right after he started firing so you just hear the gunshots and the screaming. That would've been awful if people were able to see all of that.
The second video he posted showed him shooting the reporter and doesn't stop until he's fired off at least three rounds and she's turned her back and started running away.
other than being against an outright ban on gun ownership.
But it's always funny to see how the pro-gun side's blood boils at even having to see pro-control statements. The fucking thread police over here, telling people where they can and cant talk about gun control.
I only watched it once, so maybe I missed something, but it's not quite as graphic as I was expecting from some of the descriptions (not here but elsewhere). It's certainly chilling. Especially the way he just lingers before the shot. You don't actually see anyone die though (at least it didn't appear that way to me). Vid goes black when the female reporter starts running and you can hear the shooter running after her and breathing heavily. Then it ends
This guy is going to go out in a blaze in all likelihood, doubt he gets taken alive. What a sicko
of Facebook and Twitter deleting his pages, they should keep them live but invisible to the public so that they can use his location services to track him as he keeps posting.
Though, I suppose that LE can use the gps in his phone anyway.
People are referring to a different video. He posted a video from HIS perspective on his twitter account (which has since been suspended).
I think that's what he's referring to. I saw that one and it looks like she was shot in the arm and running. It looks like it cuts off prior to subsequent shots going off.
I think it's more about trying to follow a fluid and breaking story without wading around a bunch of comments from both sides of the debate. These comments may have everything to do with the reason for this story but little to do with actually following it right now.
It's somsimple to start their own thread, so why not do it and leave the news thread for what it's intended for? The reason is hide people against guns want to jump on every opportunity and doing it on these kinds of threads is such poor taste. This is a horrific crime and people want to make it about them, it's bullshit.
Start a thread and have at it, it's just too easy I know.
other than being against an outright ban on gun ownership.
But it's always funny to see how the pro-gun side's blood boils at even having to see pro-control statements. The fucking thread police over here, telling people where they can and cant talk about gun control.
I'm not pro-gun and would even like to see some stricter gun laws enacted and I don't like these types of threads getting cluttered with cross arguments amongst the ongoing topic of the thread. Also in my opinion seems a little boorish to immediately post what is basically a political point of view when a thread about someone having just been murdered is started.
Kenneth Howe @KWesleyHowe 3m3 minutes ago
After long silence on radio VA State Police just broadcast a "Disregard suspect and vehicle" to all units in @WDBJ7 shooting.
Kenneth Howe @KWesleyHowe 3m3 minutes ago
After long silence on radio VA State Police just broadcast a "Disregard suspect and vehicle" to all units in @WDBJ7 shooting.
Jim Russ @JimWBALTraffic 1m1 minute ago
VA St PD Radio traffic; Suspect who shot himself while being chased on I 66 east of I 81 in Front Royal is dead. Wanted in @WDBJ7 shooting
I'm going to miller up the thread here and say that
although this isn't a football thread, it's one of the things that make BBI great. I got more news and links here than from CNN or Reddit.
I'm going over to Paypal and making my donation right now. If any of you on this thread haven't yet done so, maybe this thread will motivate you. Link - ( New Window )
I think it's more about trying to follow a fluid and breaking story without wading around a bunch of comments from both sides of the debate. These comments may have everything to do with the reason for this story but little to do with actually following it right now.
There is a time and place for everything.
BBI is a discussion forum, not a news agency. Im not sure why the wake of gun violence would be considered not an appropriate time to discuss gun violence in this country. Actually, I really cant fathom why it is not precisely the right time and place for this discussion.
UConn: You say that this thread was intended as a news thread. I dont agree. That's not how BBI works anyway. Look at any thread.
Steve: gun control is not a "political point of view" just because the dominant political parties have largely lined up on opposite sides of the issue. It is a question of public policy.
of Facebook and Twitter deleting his pages, they should keep them live but invisible to the public so that they can use his location services to track him as he keeps posting.
Though, I suppose that LE can use the gps in his phone anyway.
Paul - social media services have capabilities to work with LE without the pages remaining public.
think what you want man, not going to argue. If you don't think bringing up gun control on these threads isn't poor taste then I don't know what to tell you. It's nothing more than an opportunistic avenue for peole that can't help themselves. It's embarassing. As I said, start another thread. Those of us that want to follow the story and not the banter will be able to do so in peace.
That's the video that stops just as he aims the gun?
Steve: gun control is not a "political point of view" just because the dominant political parties have largely lined up on opposite sides of the issue. It is a question of public policy.
Semantics, it still is rude immediately try to make points about a controversial public policy on a thread started about someone just murdered. And it also is millering and helping to derail the ongoing discussion. Why not simply start another thread?
female reporter, step back, take aim again, and shows the shooter discharge his weapon several times at the reporter, at a range of just a few feet, presumably striking her before she begins to run away.
Absolutely surreal. I do not recommend watching. Just sickening.
RE: RE: That's the video that stops just as he aims the gun?
You do realize that simply because an individual commits a reprehensible act, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally ill? In fact, most mentally ill individuals are non violent.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
You do realize that simply because an individual commits a reprehensible act, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally ill? In fact, most mentally ill individuals are non violent.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
Sorry, but anyone who would do something like this has issues related to mental illness. That doesn't mean that all mentally ill people commit crimes.
apparently means dont talk about whether we can reduce violence if it interrupts our murder porn.
I mean that's what this is, right? It's not like this was a breaking story that we all needed to follow, right? For 95+% of BBI (ie everyone outside that area), this is just another murder on the news. I certainly didnt refresh this thread because I NEEDED to know what was going on hundreds of miles away with respect to 2 of the ~40 murders/day in this country.
It's crazy that she didn't notice him aiming the gun the first time at all. She was obviously focused on the camera but it looks like he was so close and in her peripheral vision... just so fucked up. I can't believe this happened. Sickening.
The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean
the killer was fired two years ago for numerous complaints against him. Said that he was "always looking for comments to take offense to", and filed a claim against the station for discrimination which was dismissed.
It was also said that he filed a lawsuit against a former news station that he had been employed with for something similar.
You do realize that simply because an individual commits a reprehensible act, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally ill? In fact, most mentally ill individuals are non violent.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
Sorry, but anyone who would do something like this has issues related to mental illness. That doesn't mean that all mentally ill people commit crimes.
And you've diagnosed the patient via twitter/youtube, leaning on your many, many years of being wrong about virtually everything you've ever opened your mouth up about.
You are not a practitioner, nor are you qualified to make such an assessment.
It's crazy that she didn't notice him aiming the gun the first time at all. She was obviously focused on the camera but it looks like he was so close and in her peripheral vision... just so fucked up. I can't believe this happened. Sickening.
I understand what you're saying, but imagine if every news reporter on location glanced off to the side whenever someone was in peripheral vision? It wouldn't broadcast well, and their job could possibly be compromised if they didn't clean up that habit. Often, bystanders like to just wander near a live news broadcast and watch or try to drift into camera view. This guy being a former employee may well have considered how easy it would be to walk up and commit the act without any recognition.
The reporter on twitter who was saying about how they focus in on their interview subject or the camera mentioned how there are almost always people wandering around the periphery of a reporter on camera, and you train yourself to completely block them out in order to do your job.
Yeah, I guess it's less that I actually expected her to see him and more that I just can't believe someone could be that close, pointing a gun and just go completely undetected. It's surreal. Didn't even fire it the first time either.
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
The idea that he would film himself in the very act of doing it, to me, speaks volumes about how little redeeming value this person's continued existence is worth.
If that's savage of me, I'll live with the accusation, but this guy is too far gone. Put him in prison and he'll probably kill someone else.
OMG!!!
Peter in Atl : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
I really think they should be a lot more strict with the banhammer on this site. People get away with way too much on here for way too long. And I really think this is a banworthy post.
OMG!!!
Peter in Atl : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
Congrats.
Not surprising. He's the Rich Houston of BBI assholes.
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
I really think they should be a lot more strict with the banhammer on this site. People get away with way too much on here for way too long. And I really think this is a banworthy post.
That isn't banworthy at all.
RE: I've never seen a point less eloquently attempted.
He does have a point.. just decided to go about it in an insensitive, douchebaggy way.
He doesn't have a point. Yes people get shot every day. It doesn't usually happen on live television and then get posted AGAIN to the internet by the shooter.
To suggest that this is the same as any other murder not only is unbelievably stupid, but also trivializes the idea that those other, less-publicized murders don't deserve outrage.
And even if he did have a point (he sure as fuck doesn't) to actually say it speaks to his bottom-feeding character. He truly is one of those people who just has nothing good to offer.
RE: RE: I've never seen a point less eloquently attempted.
He does have a point.. just decided to go about it in an insensitive, douchebaggy way.
He doesn't have a point. Yes people get shot every day. It doesn't usually happen on live television and then get posted AGAIN to the internet by the shooter.
To suggest that this is the same as any other murder not only is unbelievably stupid, but also trivializes the idea that those other, less-publicized murders don't deserve outrage.
And even if he did have a point (he sure as fuck doesn't) to actually say it speaks to his bottom-feeding character. He truly is one of those people who just has nothing good to offer.
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
It won't be long before we find out if he had any documented mental health issues. I can understand why you might think that, regardless of whether your suspicions turn out to be accurate or not.
There are some people who are just so unreasonably difficult in the workplace, social settings, etc. - that it makes you think there must be something else going on besides them just being hypersensitive or just a jerk. By difficult I am referring to the early reports of his issues at several workplaces.
I believe Peter's point is that violence for violence shouldn't be an appropriate reaction. These threads often turn into a game of 'who wants to see a bad person hurt the most?!'
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
It always amazes me that the criteria for 'not-guilty by reason of insanity' is that the crime was not pre-planned. If you are planning something like what happened today, you have to be off your rocker. As you said, normal people don't do this. Some may think about killing someone they really detest, but you have to be a bit off to actually do it. AND then post on social media and then try to kill yourself. And now we see this person has a history of making grievances at work and was fired for behavior. It may be hard to accept, but there are a lot of fucked up people who could go off any any moment. It's not something we can really control, but there are usually signs. But most people don't want to think that people they know, friends, co-workers, etc. could do something like this.
How was buford unfairly jumped? She lumped murder (fact), social media (fact) and mental illness (?) in together.
You may have your beliefs on those who commit violent crimes, but those aren't aren't synonymous with mental illness. A large majority of those suffering from mental illness are absolutely non-violent. The most common form is mild/severe depression - which 1 of every 4 Americans suffers from. Not only are these people generally non-violent, the only risk they may pose is to themselves.
There are many other forms of mental illness, schizophrenia, bi-polar, borderline personality, etc. A majority of these people aren't just non-violent, but are frequently victims of the crimes of others.
In addressing buford, I merely attempted to explain that such presumptions do a disservice to those suffering and practitioners alike, because it presupposes certain characteristic and actions that are false and have a measurable impact in funding and public policy. Not false because I say they are, but because they've been studied By learned professional.
However, in the typical buford manner, she's doubled down on her simpleton routine. In must be so simple to go through life without having the worry about shit like subtlety and color.
It won't be long before we find out if he had any documented mental health issues. I can understand why you might think that, regardless of whether your suspicions turn out to be accurate or not.
There are some people who are just so unreasonably difficult in the workplace, social settings, etc. - that it makes you think there must be something else going on besides them just being hypersensitive or just a jerk. By difficult I am referring to the early reports of his issues at several workplaces.
Yes, I just wrote about that. I was a director of a department and had about 100 employees under me at one point. There were certain people who were always filing grievances. One was a woman who claimed that men in the department were leering at her and she claimed sexual harassment. Well two of the men she was accusing were gay. Eventually HR suggested she seek counseling. This person obviously thought people were making racist comments about him. It could be a form of paranoia.
You misunderstood my point (or I described it poorly)
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
I wasn't saying this murder was worse. I was saying that the way it was brought into our homes illuminated its brutality. And then to top it off, the killer boasting his efforts with Twitter posts showed how unapologetic and evil he truly is.
My point was that we are human beings. I don't have the energy or the capacity or the information to shed tears over every murder that happens in this damn country. You know it and he fucking knows it. But to get outraged about the 1 murder that I actually am privy to, perhaps the attention it garners can create change for the hundreds and hundreds of murders I'd never read about.
It's perfectly natural to have visceral reaction to seeing a young woman murdered, and being able to see it via a boastful post by the murder himself (and a young man too, though that wasn't in the video). And for that piece of human filth Peter to imply that people are picking and choosing their outrage is so disrespectful to literally everyone involved.
RE: You misunderstood my point (or I described it poorly)
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
I wasn't saying this murder was worse. I was saying that the way it was brought into our homes illuminated its brutality. And then to top it off, the killer boasting his efforts with Twitter posts showed how unapologetic and evil he truly is.
My point was that we are human beings. I don't have the energy or the capacity or the information to shed tears over every murder that happens in this damn country. You know it and he fucking knows it. But to get outraged about the 1 murder that I actually am privy to, perhaps the attention it garners can create change for the hundreds and hundreds of murders I'd never read about.
It's perfectly natural to have visceral reaction to seeing a young woman murdered, and being able to see it via a boastful post by the murder himself (and a young man too, though that wasn't in the video). And for that piece of human filth Peter to imply that people are picking and choosing their outrage is so disrespectful to literally everyone involved.
fuck off. There was nothing wrong with what I said. If you think this person exhibited normal behavior, then that's your problem.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I believe Peter's point is that violence for violence shouldn't be an appropriate reaction. These threads often turn into a game of 'who wants to see a bad person hurt the most?!'
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
It always amazes me that the criteria for 'not-guilty by reason of insanity' is that the crime was not pre-planned. If you are planning something like what happened today, you have to be off your rocker. As you said, normal people don't do this. Some may think about killing someone they really detest, but you have to be a bit off to actually do it. AND then post on social media and then try to kill yourself. And now we see this person has a history of making grievances at work and was fired for behavior. It may be hard to accept, but there are a lot of fucked up people who could go off any any moment. It's not something we can really control, but there are usually signs. But most people don't want to think that people they know, friends, co-workers, etc. could do something like this.
This might not be the most accurate explanation of a legal concept, but my understanding is that you can be mentally ill AND guilty. To be not guilty by reason of insanity you must be unable to comprehend the(for lack of a better word) consequences of your action. That's not a perfect explanation, but I think I got the basic concept across.
It's more than just the multiple filing of grievances. I've seen people like that who are not mentally ill, just abusing the processes established to ensure a fair and equitable workplace. I'm talking about people who genuinely (in their minds) see conspiracies, malicious intent in things that are either innocent or even non-existent.
fuck off. There was nothing wrong with what I said. If you think this person exhibited normal behavior, then that's your problem.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I couldn't possibly care less about your personal life. But don't promulgate shit you know to be wron and don't set up straw men when you can't even argue your own POV.
You do realize that simply because an individual commits a reprehensible act, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally ill? In fact, most mentally ill individuals are non violent.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
Sorry, but anyone who would do something like this has issues related to mental illness. That doesn't mean that all mentally ill people commit crimes.
And you've diagnosed the patient via twitter/youtube, leaning on your many, many years of being wrong about virtually everything you've ever opened your mouth up about.
You are not a practitioner, nor are you qualified to make such an assessment.
Good grief people. Stop being so silly with your dislike of buford. She posted an opinion, one that many may share. And you guys get all over it with questions about medical expertise. Well, unless you coached in the NFL, its probably best if you dont offer opinions on the play of the Giants or the front office moves either. Sometimes the silliness is just a bit much.
Vester was an unhappy man. We employed him as a reporter and he had some talent in that respect He quickly gathered a reputation as someone who was difficult to work with. He was sort of looking out for people to say things he could take offense to. Eventually after many incidents of his anger coming forward, we dismissed him. He did not take that well. [Police had to be called.] He filed a claim with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission about members of the staff making racial comments. He was African American. None of them could be corroborated by anyone. We think they were fabricated. We talked to all our employees we got nothing about that. The EEOC dismissed the claim out of hand.
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
I said what I said. Look at what you've done to this thread. You are a terrible human being.
Yes. Look at what I've done. I've taken the wind out of your sails of your calling for another person to suffer.
Quote:
Wouldn't that be great if he lives
Mike in Long Beach : 12:11 pm : link : reply
and has to be a quadriplegic in prison the rest of his life?
Quote:
I really just want this guy to endure
Mike in Long Beach : 12:24 pm : link : reply
prolonged suffering. He's really tapped into the worst in me, but it's how I feel at this moment.
RE: You misunderstood my point (or I described it poorly)
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
I wasn't saying this murder was worse. I was saying that the way it was brought into our homes illuminated its brutality. And then to top it off, the killer boasting his efforts with Twitter posts showed how unapologetic and evil he truly is.
My point was that we are human beings. I don't have the energy or the capacity or the information to shed tears over every murder that happens in this damn country. You know it and he fucking knows it. But to get outraged about the 1 murder that I actually am privy to, perhaps the attention it garners can create change for the hundreds and hundreds of murders I'd never read about.
It's perfectly natural to have visceral reaction to seeing a young woman murdered, and being able to see it via a boastful post by the murder himself (and a young man too, though that wasn't in the video). And for that piece of human filth Peter to imply that people are picking and choosing their outrage is so disrespectful to literally everyone involved.
I think it's fair to point out. I also understand that it's natural to see something terrible like this and feel angered and upset by it. At the end of the day, we are picking and choosing though. Right or wrong.
Like I said, it was done in an insensitive/shitty way but it's not the worst point to try making.
Good news on the other hand - the lady from the Chamber of Commerce who was being interviewed, Vicki Gardner, is out of surgery and in stable condition.
The only thing that took the wind out of my sails this morning was the double murder. And not only do I stand by those comments, I'd like to double down on them.
You are a bad person, but at the end of the day harmless. So no, you haven't had any tangible impact here. It's not you that ruined my morning. It's him.
Im wrong. The stats are 1 in 14-15 have major depressive disorder, not just depression. That is horrifying if you know anyone who has gone through it. Link - ( New Window )
so we're arguing about wanting a murderer to suffer?
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
Good news on the other hand - the lady from the Chamber of Commerce who was being interviewed, Vicki Gardner, is out of surgery and in stable condition.
That is good. Conjecture here obviously, but I wonder if he didn't pursue her as she does not work at the station. She was just as easy a target as the other two.
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
How does it marginalize a serious crime to ask whether he was suffering from mental health problems. Do you assume that people who stalk and kill other human beings like this while video taping the horror have it all together? That this guy was 100% mentally healthy?
RE: so we're arguing about wanting a murderer to suffer?
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
How does it marginalize a serious crime to ask whether he was suffering from mental health problems. Do you assume that people who stalk and kill other human beings like this while video taping the horror have it all together? That this guy was 100% mentally healthy?
Claiming mental illness before any facts are in, I believe that's the issue here.
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
How does it marginalize a serious crime to ask whether he was suffering from mental health problems. Do you assume that people who stalk and kill other human beings like this while video taping the horror have it all together? That this guy was 100% mentally healthy?
Where have I made a judgement one way or another? I have no fucking clue. I'm simply stating that killing a thing or person does not necessarily mean one is mentally ill.
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
Or maybe he showed up early watched for them to leave the station for assignment and followed them in his car. I doubt it would be hard to do if motivated to do so.
RE: An interesting point was raised on the station
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
Or he could have just followed the van from the station
He doesn't even believe what he's saying. He's just trying to turn the table on me (like I'm wrong for wanting this asshole to suffer).
Peter's not a good guy. He's getting his kicks by fucking with this thread.
You're pathetic. People should go back and read your all of your posts. You were reasonable at the beginning. You were advised not to look at the video. You couldn't do that. You don't like to "shield your eyes from such things". Then, you went off the deep end. You "want" to see the video. You needed to see it. You "saw it just in time".
before the internet was around, I had a friend who got his hands on an old VCR tape called Faces of Death. We put it on and after the first 5 minutes I didn't want to watch it anymore. At this point, the video would be needed for the authorities, but anything beyond that is a snuff film and I would never plan on clicking on any of these links or videos.
This guy sounds like an angry asshole who wanted to inflict as much pain on the station as possible. It happens routinely enough in America of someone pissed off at work or a former employee and they show up and start shooting. In this case, it happened to be on live TV and he was prepared to broadcast even more video of it. He wanted all these visions out there to "get back" at the station. I'm sure he knew about the personal interactions with the crew and he wanted their loved ones to suffer as well.
At this point, the video would be needed for the authorities, but anything beyond that is a snuff film and I would never plan on clicking on any of these links or videos.
I'm of like mind, I have zero desire to watch a video of people dying, especially while being murdered.
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
Or maybe he showed up early watched for them to leave the station for assignment and followed them in his car. I doubt it would be hard to do if motivated to do so.
The thing with that is most TV stations are sending multiple trucks with different reporters out to different sites to do live reporting and leave relatively early in the morning and do not have their trucks right out on the street.
When I was working at Comcast Sports, when we would go out on an assignment, we had all the vans in a large garage underground and mostly out of sight. Our studios were downtown. But others in say, Phoenix by their baseball stadium, have a very small building that is very visible.
Unless she's the only reporter who does live stuff that early (since he worked here, he would probably know), he would have had to know the correct truck and know that it was her in order to pull this off without being tipped off in advance.
In some of the contents of his 23 page manifesto. Part of it is him saying he accepts the challenge of the church shooter for a race war. Says "bring it on". More sure to follow. This is going to dominate the news
In some of the contents of his 23 page manifesto. Part of it is him saying he accepts the challenge of the church shooter for a race war. Says "bring it on". More sure to follow. This is going to dominate the news
After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in Suicide Notes
Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15
What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE (deleted)!!! He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him his boy, and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. Also, I was influenced by SeungHui Cho. Thats my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold gotjust sayin.'
Dylann Roof killed peaceful, religious people who by all accounts loved their neighbors and believed in forgiveness. This asshole decided to kill more people in their name.
He mentions body count like it's some kind of competition, but these 2 unfortunate souls. Just goes to show how crazy someone can get.
Senseless bullsh*t.
Wish they would stop publicizing the rantings of murderers
It's more than just the multiple filing of grievances. I've seen people like that who are not mentally ill, just abusing the processes established to ensure a fair and equitable workplace. I'm talking about people who genuinely (in their minds) see conspiracies, malicious intent in things that are either innocent or even non-existent.
Yes, but some of them actually believe the grievances they file. Those are the ones that need help but rarely get it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone that's twisted enough to do this
This might not be the most accurate explanation of a legal concept, but my understanding is that you can be mentally ill AND guilty. To be not guilty by reason of insanity you must be unable to comprehend the(for lack of a better word) consequences of your action. That's not a perfect explanation, but I think I got the basic concept across.
Well, I'm only going by what I hear from trials, like the recent Aurora shooting verdict. The pundits all say, well that showed pre-meditation (so I guess that means you know what you are doing), so the insanity plea won't work. I am saying they are insane buy obviously guilty. But would probably be better off in a mental institution than prison.
fuck off. There was nothing wrong with what I said. If you think this person exhibited normal behavior, then that's your problem.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I couldn't possibly care less about your personal life. But don't promulgate shit you know to be wron and don't set up straw men when you can't even argue your own POV.
It's pathetic.
So you know what I said was wrong? What are YOU basing that on???
He had a freaking manifesto, yeah, real sane. Go troll somewhere else.
RE: Wish they would stop publicizing the rantings of murderers
They don't mean the same thing. There are a lot of people who are mentally ill but cannot use an insanity defense.
Correct.
And I want to ask some people - if we decide this guy wasn't mentally ill, what is the alternative? That he was as completely sane as the people he shot to death? Does that mean that, from a mental health perspective, there's no appreciable difference between the victims and the killer?
This thread represents everything I hate about the behavior of our posters when things take a turn for the worse. Everything inevitably disintegrates into name calling and vitriol. It's a shame we can't have more civilized discussions, but I guess that's just not possible.
To me, there are two very obvious disorders he suffers from in a big way. Narcissism and sociopathy.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
To me, there are two very obvious disorders he suffers from in a big way. Narcissism and sociopathy.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
It was a toxic mix at play here.
Also perhaps a healthy dose of persecution complex.
The guy's full of shit. Charleston is just something he latched on to in order to portray himself as some kind of righteous avenger. He shot at three people, yet the two he killed were former co-workers that he felt had wronged him. If this was some kind of vengeance for Charleston, why was the one person who survived the CoC lady with whom he had no prior relationship? Because he didn't really care if he killed her or not, but he was absolutely determined that the cameraman and reporter were going to die. He has a long history of workplace paranoia and grudges about his failed career. If Dylann Roof were still just some anonymous angry redneck kid, this guy likely still would have done what he did IMO.
After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in Suicide Notes
Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15
What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE (deleted)!!! He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him his boy, and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. Also, I was influenced by SeungHui Cho. Thats my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold gotjust sayin.'
He insinuates he is down for a race war yet proceeds off himself... You are a very poor coward of a soldier you fuck...
The guy's full of shit. Charleston is just something he latched on to in order to portray himself as some kind of righteous avenger. He shot at three people, yet the two he killed were former co-workers that he felt had wronged him. If this was some kind of vengeance for Charleston, why was the one person who survived the CoC lady with whom he had no prior relationship? Because he didn't really care if he killed her or not, but he was absolutely determined that the cameraman and reporter were going to die. He has a long history of workplace paranoia and grudges about his failed career. If Dylann Roof were still just some anonymous angry redneck kid, this guy likely still would have done what he did IMO.
Agreed.
Came across this on Reddit so I can't speak to its authenticity
social media and mental illness is because IMO (of course), social media has provided an outlet for some seriously disturbed people to live out their psychosis. It wasn't enough to kill these two people. He had to film it and put it on line. He could have had many things wrong with him, but the same scenario plays out as in other killings. Long held grievances, usually totally imagined, trigger event, and a desire to be noticed, hence the videos and the manifesto. It's a way of proving to everyone that they are important and we will regret how we treated them.
It's very sad and I don't know what we can do to intervene in these types of cases before they get to this point.
The boyfriend going to Twitter in the morning and then showing ...
... a picture book on TV later in the day rubs me the wrong way. I know, everyone grieves differently, but I just wouldn't.
Agreed. And he was just on Fox News and didn't seem like it was the day he lost his love. Me personally, I probably wouldn't say a damn word to anyone until I had a chance to decompress. To each their own I suppose.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
when they accept death and think they have nothing to lose.
Idiots like this are simply terrorists. We've seen so many crazy individual shootings over the years. A big fear of mine for the future is that somehow several of these crazies get in touch with each other and organize something together. I know that the FBI and CIA and etc. are all doing a thorough job at making sure something like that never happens. And I know that most of these individuals are just trying to make an individual "statement" and that might not work in a group. Maybe this is just paranoia but we've seen 1 random shooter commit absolute atrocities, the thought of what several of them can do together with an organized plan scares the shit out of me.
RIP to Alison Parker and and Adam Ward. Just senseless.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
Which is why I said "to each their own".
And as humans we often compare others reactions to our own. Just human nature.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
I hope you haven't been in this type of situation, and if you haven't, how in the world do you know what you would be doing?
But when you watch the first person vid you can see why there is all of that lingering going on by the gunman before he takes his shot, it was purely tactical. When he walks up on them the camera guy doesn't have his camera on the reporter, all that lingering is just him waiting until the camera guy gets focused on her so the tv audience can see the reporter getting shot. As soon as the camera pans to the reporter he shoots
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
I was wondering why he seemed to appropach them, aim,
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
The problem with this is that being let go from a job would probably not show up on a background check. Companies don't say why someone was let go because they can get sued. All they will do is confirm the dates of employment. That's why when you hire someone, you always try to get a reference from someone who worked directly with that person. And sometimes they are not allowed to say anything. I don't know if the EEOC report would show up.
The day Flanagan was fired from a Virginia TV station in 2013, his bosses called 911 because of his volatile behavioran incident captured on camera by Adam Ward, a man who would later become one of his victims.
At a February 2013 meeting, managers at WDBJ7 in Roanoke told Flanagan he wasnt a good fit and would be terminated. Flanagan became agitated before issuing a threat, one boss recalled in court papers.
Im not leaving, fumed Flanagan, who went by Bryce Williams on air. Youre going to have to call the fucking police. Call the police, Im not leaving. Im going to make a stink and its going to be in the headlines.
One former manager, Dan Dennison, claimed Flanagan terrified employees so much they took shelter in a locked office.
He repeated his feeling that firing him would lead to negative consequences for me personally and for the station, Dennison said, according to a statement in a racial discrimination lawsuit Flanagan filed in 2014, which was dismissed.
The disgruntled newsman handed Dennison a small wooden cross and warned him, Youll need this.
of course if he wasn't charged with anything, it probably would not have. Link - ( New Window )
When you combine the first person video with the live broadcast, piecing things together it is clear his lingering was solely because the camera guy was panning across the scenery and didn't have the reporter in the camera shot. As soon as he pans to get her in the shot the gunman fires
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
Background check for the most part only looks at any criminal history. And this can be a bit hazy as well since not everyone has felony (or even misdemeanor) records that will indicate that they should not be allowed to purchase weapons, especially when it comes to mental illness since no background check even touches one's medical records for obvious privacy reasons.
It's a fool's errand to think we can create a rule that will
predict who will use a gun for something like this or murdering his family or something random like Sandy Hook. And the 2nd amendment basically prohibits trying anyway.
We're pretty much stuck in a society where guns are cheap and easy to get and our nutjobs have no trouble arming themselves.
For example, you will be denied a firearm if your wife/ex-wife has a restraining order against you, but no one else?
Ronnie - if you have been involuntarily committed to an institution, that will show up...that's about it...or a court has a ruling against you...the system should not have let DR obtain a gun, for example.
For example, you will be denied a firearm if your wife/ex-wife has a restraining order against you, but no one else?
Ronnie - if you have been involuntarily committed to an institution, that will show up...that's about it...or a court has a ruling against you...the system should not have let DR obtain a gun, for example.
Thanks, Rob. I didn't know about the involuntary commitment, but it makes sense.
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
I'm a long island transplant living in NC now, bought my first gun 2 weeks ago, glock 19 9mm. In order to buy that gun i needed a pistol purchase permit. In order to get the pistol purchase permit i had to go to the county sheriffs office and fill out what basically equates to a job applicaton minus listing any previous employment. Filled it out and a few days later i was back at the sheriffs office picking up the purchase permit. So not hard at all if you don't have a fucked up background.
that the cameraman was moving to Charlotte. His fiance's last day was yesterday! She was in the control room when the news broke.
She is slated to join the Charlotte ABC affiliate next month and she and the cameraman were in Charlotte over the weekend finalizing a lease on an apartment.
that the cameraman was moving to Charlotte. His fiance's last day was yesterday! She was in the control room when the news broke.
She is slated to join the Charlotte ABC affiliate next month and she and the cameraman were in Charlotte over the weekend finalizing a lease on an apartment.
Now that is really sad. Within hours of relocating, and a nutjob crashes the whole thing.
As Ward and Ott prepared to move into an apartment in Ballantyne, Ward told Eberle that he was ready to leave the news business and asked for help in finding a new career.
They last spoke on Sunday.
Said Eberle: One of the things I found interesting was the comment he made to me, he says, You know TJ...Im a little burned out in this job, going to film peoples worse days, whether it be a fire or crime scene.
Eberle said he compiled a list of about 20 people he was going to speak with to help Ward land a job in marketing or public relations.
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
I'm a long island transplant living in NC now, bought my first gun 2 weeks ago, glock 19 9mm. In order to buy that gun i needed a pistol purchase permit. In order to get the pistol purchase permit i had to go to the county sheriffs office and fill out what basically equates to a job applicaton minus listing any previous employment. Filled it out and a few days later i was back at the sheriffs office picking up the purchase permit. So not hard at all if you don't have a fucked up background.
Right. But this clown was so screwy his employer called the cops on him.
And he got to carry anyway.
Be careful who you piss off people. Be nice to irrational people.
killer considered racist were field, swinging and watermelon.
WDBJ cameraman Trevor Fair recalled others using the term field around Flanagan: We would say stuff like, The reporters out in the field. And he would look at us and say, What are you saying, cotton fields? Thats racist, he told the Post.
Wed be like, What? he added. We all know what that means, but he took it as cotton fields, and therefore were all racists.
This guy was a nightmare, Fair told the Post. Managements worst nightmare.
Then there was the time a station manager brought in watermelon for all employees. Of course, he thought that was racist. He was like, Youre doing that because of me. No, the general manager brought in watermelon for the entire news team. Hes like, Nope, this is out for me. You guys are calling me out because Im black.
7-Elevens sale of watermelon-flavored Slurpees didnt escape Flanagans observations, either.
Its not a coincidence, theyre racist, Fair recalled Flanagan saying.
killer considered racist were field, swinging and watermelon.
WDBJ cameraman Trevor Fair recalled others using the term field around Flanagan: We would say stuff like, The reporters out in the field. And he would look at us and say, What are you saying, cotton fields? Thats racist, he told the Post.
Wed be like, What? he added. We all know what that means, but he took it as cotton fields, and therefore were all racists.
This guy was a nightmare, Fair told the Post. Managements worst nightmare.
Then there was the time a station manager brought in watermelon for all employees. Of course, he thought that was racist. He was like, Youre doing that because of me. No, the general manager brought in watermelon for the entire news team. Hes like, Nope, this is out for me. You guys are calling me out because Im black.
7-Elevens sale of watermelon-flavored Slurpees didnt escape Flanagans observations, either.
Its not a coincidence, theyre racist, Fair recalled Flanagan saying.
Link - ( New Window )
Wow.. We obviously knew the dude was batshit crazy, but when you hear that kind of rationale it's just terrifying.
The conspiracy theorists are predictably out on this one as well.. claiming some tweet by the boyfriend about being numb to the whole thing, etc. was posted 12 minutes before the shooting actually happened. "Timestamp doesn't lie! This is an anti-gun campaign!" Good stuff.
I am not into conspiracy theories, especially when they come out after every tragedy like this....but one interesting note is the blue shirt in the first person video compared to the all back fatigues from the camera mans live feed. I know you can't really tell everything from that quick screen grab and could possibly distinguish exactly what color he was wearing, but it is pretty interesting.
So, some random lady with the Smith Mountain Lake Chamber of Commerce is going to be an enthusiastic participant in a nonsensical conspiracy to fake a horrific videotaped murder....which occurs in the very marketplace she is promoting to increase economic activity??? Nothing boosts business like a live broadcast of a double murder!
And where do people who think that this was all staged think the woman who was killed went? They think she was paid off to get moved into some other country where she'd never be recognized and just start a brand new life over again somewhere under a new name and new persona as if it was no big deal? This woman who had a career here suddenly just agreed to be part of this huge hoax?
People also seem set on the "there's no blood! And how does she run away after being shot?!" angle. It happens so fast and this isn't a horror movie where fake blood dramatically shoots out everywhere to enhance the effect.
If you read the comments on the link Peter posted it's actually scary how delusional people are.
from the fallen camera man's camera is the result of him standing in a shadow without much lighting. You just can't see the detail of the sleeves in the same way you can in the first person look.
You know, I never have read any of the ranting of conspiracy theorists about Sandy Hook or other shootings, but I clicked on Peter's link. It truly is staggering just how willfully stupid some people are determined to be.
Seriously, let's round up the number of people who have to be party
The two people who were killed, who as arc says ostensibly have to be willing to start completely new lives somewhere else.
The wounded lady.
The shooter himself.
The staff at the TV station.
The police.
The paramedics who responded to the scene.
The doctors who operated on the wounded lady for hours.
The medical examiners who have custody of the deceased.
So let's say that, conservatively, there are two dozen people who are active participants. That doesn't even include the people who planned and funded the whole thing. Yet, somehow, the plot was so poorly carried out (in the minds of the mouthbreathers) that a bunch of dimwits on a web site can instantly detect the fakery??
Greg, and that's not even factoring in that they'd get that far along and then inexplicably use a white "shooter" wearing a shirt that is a different color than Flanagan actually was.
I mean, let's think about this for a second. All of these people would plot something out that took attention to considerable amounts of detail, required countless people to be "in" on it and then would overlook one of the most obvious parts of the entire thing inexplicably?
who has enough of a sharp, discerning eye to ferret out the influence of the international Zionist conspiracy behind this. Truly a fearsome intellect at work there.
Link - ( New Window )
Okay, it's probably going to be a love triangle kind of thing.
Possible. More likely it was some sick fuck.
Awful.
Could be another Dylan Roof.
Hope they catch the shooter. There are some pretty clear images him so he should be easy to ID.
I agree with Paul - it's a blurry shot but it does look like the guy has some kind of patch on his arm, like some kind of police or security uniform.
Quote:
a reporter and a photographer who were engaged.
Okay, it's probably going to be a love triangle kind of thing.
They weren't engaged to each other. The photographer was engaged to a producer set the station and the reporter was dating a anchor.
Quote:
In comment 12436043 Big Al said:
Quote:
a reporter and a photographer who were engaged.
Okay, it's probably going to be a love triangle kind of thing.
They weren't engaged to each other. The photographer was engaged to a producer set the station and the reporter was dating a anchor.
He supposedly appears to be wearing a mask and body armor.
I hope they are able to catch him asap.
Link - ( New Window )
Pretty chilling screen grab..
I'm not anti or pro gun, in fact, I'm rather indifferent. So I'm not blaming "guns" per se...
But mental health, guns, whatever... There is a serious fucking problem.
I thought the same thing. I think tweeting would be the last thought on my mind. Of course we all handle things differently.
My thoughts exactly, I think it's a bit weird to be tweeting, but like you said it may be cathartic
^^
I'm not anti or pro gun, in fact, I'm rather indifferent. So I'm not blaming "guns" per se...
But mental health, guns, whatever... There is a serious fucking problem.
We have a problem that needs to be addressed, and looking at gun laws certainly seems like one area to at least give a review to.
For all of the stubborness the leadership at the NRA has exhibited over the years, their main challenge is becoming these attackers who are giving the vast majority of gun owners a bad name.
There is a serious mental health problem out there. I wish I had some answers.
The suspect in the #WDBJ shooting is being chased north on I-81
They had a 24 and 27 year old out on remote. I doubt they're budgeting for protection.
We wont be truly safe until everyone is walking around with guns, obviously.
BREAKING: @GovernorVA says shooter believed to be "disgruntled employee" of @WDBJ7. Troopers in pursuit now.
The suspect in the #WDBJ shooting is being chased north on I-81
That was 15 minutes ago? And it's still going...a little surprising
.@GovernorVA on @WTOP says disgruntled @WDBJ7 alleged shooter driving on I-64, police in pursuit. In custody soon, Governor said.
Link - ( New Window )
Guns don't cause mental illness. Smfh.
I hope they catch him and that he rots in hell.
Quote:
So you are saying countries without substantial minority populations have far fewer gun deaths? Racist much?
Is that what you took away from that graph?
CNN reporting that Social Media's identification of the suspect is INCORRECT.
Quote:
selling guns to the general public because you hear so many good stories of how they're put to use.
Guns don't cause mental illness. Smfh.
No, they make the mentally ill more dangerous.
Quote:
So you are saying countries without substantial minority populations have far fewer gun deaths? Racist much?
Canada has substantial minority populations.
Quote:
So you are saying countries without substantial minority populations have far fewer gun deaths? Racist much?
Lol wut
Via scanner: police have found suspect's car at Roanoke airport. Still searching 4suspect. #WDBJ7 #journalistmurder
Lester (or Vester) Lee Flanagan
Unless Homer is referring only to black minorities.
I hope they catch him and that he rots in hell.
I hope the cops do the local taxpayers a favor & put him down.
Enough is enough. Ban fucking guns.
Link - ( New Window )
Holy shit. This might be the most ignorant post I've seen here. Quite an accomplishment Homer. Your surname should be Simpson so we could keep the great Homer Jones in good stead.
Quote:
So you are saying countries without substantial minority populations have far fewer gun deaths? Racist much?
Uh, Germany doesn't have a substantial minority population? Yeah, I guess it's only third largest in the world.
Link - ( New Window )
Thanks for posting... the only thing I take issue with is the idea that I'm "onto something." I haven't discovered anything. This is simple, blatant, 3rd grade level cause-and-effect.
Link - ( New Window )
I agree. Nothing wrong with discussing gun control but it shouldn't be thrust into this thread. Start a separate thread for another discussion.
Sickening He's taking delight in posting this
Holy shot that is ducking creepy. What a deranged fuck.
This guy needs to go DOWN ..... right now
It almost seemed like it wasn't real...like something out of a video game.
Enough is enough. Ban fucking guns.
Yeah! Let's also ban murder and robbery and drugs! Just think how wonderful everything will be!!!
RIP to these people and hopefully they catch this bastard ASAP
Another reporter on twitter said that, when you're on camera, the camera is the only thing you're focusing on and it's not unusual not to notice things happening in the background.
I'm still just in shock at that twitter feed and video. Unbelievable.
they have tunnel vision
I would assume because as a reporter and interviewee on live television they don't want to look away from the camera at all.
Fuck this guy. I hope that when they catch him, they put several clips into him.
Yep, I don't need to see something like that. Hope they catch this monster ASAP.
But it's always funny to see how the pro-gun side's blood boils at even having to see pro-control statements. The fucking thread police over here, telling people where they can and cant talk about gun control.
This guy is going to go out in a blaze in all likelihood, doubt he gets taken alive. What a sicko
Same thing the Virginia Tech shooter did
Link to Tweet - ( New Window )
Though, I suppose that LE can use the gps in his phone anyway.
I think that's what he's referring to. I saw that one and it looks like she was shot in the arm and running. It looks like it cuts off prior to subsequent shots going off.
Still terrifying.
There is a time and place for everything.
Start a thread and have at it, it's just too easy I know.
If so, I think it's the lingering and first-person shooting that people are so creeped out by.
But it's always funny to see how the pro-gun side's blood boils at even having to see pro-control statements. The fucking thread police over here, telling people where they can and cant talk about gun control.
I'm not pro-gun and would even like to see some stricter gun laws enacted and I don't like these types of threads getting cluttered with cross arguments amongst the ongoing topic of the thread. Also in my opinion seems a little boorish to immediately post what is basically a political point of view when a thread about someone having just been murdered is started.
He was no longer working for the station
#BREAKING Reports: Alleged #WDBJ shooter Vester Flanagan has shot himself: http://bit.ly/1WSnGE0
After long silence on radio VA State Police just broadcast a "Disregard suspect and vehicle" to all units in @WDBJ7 shooting.
After long silence on radio VA State Police just broadcast a "Disregard suspect and vehicle" to all units in @WDBJ7 shooting.
What does that mean??
VA St PD Radio traffic; Suspect who shot himself while being chased on I 66 east of I 81 in Front Royal is dead. Wanted in @WDBJ7 shooting
I'm going over to Paypal and making my donation right now. If any of you on this thread haven't yet done so, maybe this thread will motivate you.
Link - ( New Window )
There is a time and place for everything.
BBI is a discussion forum, not a news agency. Im not sure why the wake of gun violence would be considered not an appropriate time to discuss gun violence in this country. Actually, I really cant fathom why it is not precisely the right time and place for this discussion.
UConn: You say that this thread was intended as a news thread. I dont agree. That's not how BBI works anyway. Look at any thread.
Steve: gun control is not a "political point of view" just because the dominant political parties have largely lined up on opposite sides of the issue. It is a question of public policy.
Though, I suppose that LE can use the gps in his phone anyway.
Paul - social media services have capabilities to work with LE without the pages remaining public.
Vester Flanagan
Same. It actually made me jump out of my seat. Chilling sensation throughout my body. Awful. Should have listened to others and stayed off of twitter
Quote:
Steve: gun control is not a "political point of view" just because the dominant political parties have largely lined up on opposite sides of the issue. It is a question of public policy.
Semantics, it still is rude immediately try to make points about a controversial public policy on a thread started about someone just murdered. And it also is millering and helping to derail the ongoing discussion. Why not simply start another thread?
Gone ... - ( New Window )
There's another where you actually see the gun pointed and him shooting the reporter.
I have no words.
There's a longer version that doesn't stop when he aims the gun.
Absolutely surreal. I do not recommend watching. Just sickening.
Quote:
That was some terrible shit.
There's a longer version that doesn't stop when he aims the gun.
OK, I'm glad I didn't see that one, I thought the edited version was bad enough.
And to reiterate, this is as disgusted as I've been by a news story.
These videos hammer it home though. You don't truly understand it unless you see it. I get not wanting to, but I do.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
But the reports are only indicating as of now that he's shot himself. Not that he's dead.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
Sorry, but anyone who would do something like this has issues related to mental illness. That doesn't mean that all mentally ill people commit crimes.
I mean that's what this is, right? It's not like this was a breaking story that we all needed to follow, right? For 95+% of BBI (ie everyone outside that area), this is just another murder on the news. I certainly didnt refresh this thread because I NEEDED to know what was going on hundreds of miles away with respect to 2 of the ~40 murders/day in this country.
Is that your expert medical opinion?
The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean
It was also said that he filed a lawsuit against a former news station that he had been employed with for something similar.
Quote:
You do realize that simply because an individual commits a reprehensible act, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally ill? In fact, most mentally ill individuals are non violent.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
Sorry, but anyone who would do something like this has issues related to mental illness. That doesn't mean that all mentally ill people commit crimes.
And you've diagnosed the patient via twitter/youtube, leaning on your many, many years of being wrong about virtually everything you've ever opened your mouth up about.
You are not a practitioner, nor are you qualified to make such an assessment.
But the reports are only indicating as of now that he's shot himself. Not that he's dead.
He's dead. I was listening to the VSP on the scanner
I understand what you're saying, but imagine if every news reporter on location glanced off to the side whenever someone was in peripheral vision? It wouldn't broadcast well, and their job could possibly be compromised if they didn't clean up that habit. Often, bystanders like to just wander near a live news broadcast and watch or try to drift into camera view. This guy being a former employee may well have considered how easy it would be to walk up and commit the act without any recognition.
As a Virginia taxpayer, I'm not sure why I want my money funding this asshole being kept alive.
Quote:
and has to be a quadriplegic in prison the rest of his life?
As a Virginia taxpayer, I'm not sure why I want my money funding this asshole being kept alive.
He needs to answer for his crimes and punished accordingly. There needs to be justice for what's happened.
Many people own multiple guns
Terrible.
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
Quote:
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
The idea that he would film himself in the very act of doing it, to me, speaks volumes about how little redeeming value this person's continued existence is worth.
If that's savage of me, I'll live with the accusation, but this guy is too far gone. Put him in prison and he'll probably kill someone else.
Peter in Atl : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
Congrats.
You are truly are a disgusting individual.
Quote:
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
You are truly are a disgusting individual.
You're the one with the blood lust and I'm disgusting?
I really think they should be a lot more strict with the banhammer on this site. People get away with way too much on here for way too long. And I really think this is a banworthy post.
Quote:
OMG!!!
Peter in Atl : 12:28 pm : link : reply
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
Congrats.
Not surprising. He's the Rich Houston of BBI assholes.
It's somewhat fair, but in typical Peter fashion no matter the subject he always comes off as an asshole
Quote:
Someone I don't know shot and killed someone else who I don't know! This never happens! I'm outraged! I want more suffering!
I really think they should be a lot more strict with the banhammer on this site. People get away with way too much on here for way too long. And I really think this is a banworthy post.
That isn't banworthy at all.
Says the guy who admits he's a savage.
He doesn't have a point. Yes people get shot every day. It doesn't usually happen on live television and then get posted AGAIN to the internet by the shooter.
To suggest that this is the same as any other murder not only is unbelievably stupid, but also trivializes the idea that those other, less-publicized murders don't deserve outrage.
And even if he did have a point (he sure as fuck doesn't) to actually say it speaks to his bottom-feeding character. He truly is one of those people who just has nothing good to offer.
Quote:
.
Says the guy who admits he's a savage.
You are the mark twain of our time.
Quote:
He does have a point.. just decided to go about it in an insensitive, douchebaggy way.
He doesn't have a point. Yes people get shot every day. It doesn't usually happen on live television and then get posted AGAIN to the internet by the shooter.
To suggest that this is the same as any other murder not only is unbelievably stupid, but also trivializes the idea that those other, less-publicized murders don't deserve outrage.
And even if he did have a point (he sure as fuck doesn't) to actually say it speaks to his bottom-feeding character. He truly is one of those people who just has nothing good to offer.
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
There are some people who are just so unreasonably difficult in the workplace, social settings, etc. - that it makes you think there must be something else going on besides them just being hypersensitive or just a jerk. By difficult I am referring to the early reports of his issues at several workplaces.
Quote:
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
It always amazes me that the criteria for 'not-guilty by reason of insanity' is that the crime was not pre-planned. If you are planning something like what happened today, you have to be off your rocker. As you said, normal people don't do this. Some may think about killing someone they really detest, but you have to be a bit off to actually do it. AND then post on social media and then try to kill yourself. And now we see this person has a history of making grievances at work and was fired for behavior. It may be hard to accept, but there are a lot of fucked up people who could go off any any moment. It's not something we can really control, but there are usually signs. But most people don't want to think that people they know, friends, co-workers, etc. could do something like this.
Sorry it went over your head. Next time, I'll dumb it down for you.
You may have your beliefs on those who commit violent crimes, but those aren't aren't synonymous with mental illness. A large majority of those suffering from mental illness are absolutely non-violent. The most common form is mild/severe depression - which 1 of every 4 Americans suffers from. Not only are these people generally non-violent, the only risk they may pose is to themselves.
There are many other forms of mental illness, schizophrenia, bi-polar, borderline personality, etc. A majority of these people aren't just non-violent, but are frequently victims of the crimes of others.
In addressing buford, I merely attempted to explain that such presumptions do a disservice to those suffering and practitioners alike, because it presupposes certain characteristic and actions that are false and have a measurable impact in funding and public policy. Not false because I say they are, but because they've been studied By learned professional.
However, in the typical buford manner, she's doubled down on her simpleton routine. In must be so simple to go through life without having the worry about shit like subtlety and color.
There are some people who are just so unreasonably difficult in the workplace, social settings, etc. - that it makes you think there must be something else going on besides them just being hypersensitive or just a jerk. By difficult I am referring to the early reports of his issues at several workplaces.
Yes, I just wrote about that. I was a director of a department and had about 100 employees under me at one point. There were certain people who were always filing grievances. One was a woman who claimed that men in the department were leering at her and she claimed sexual harassment. Well two of the men she was accusing were gay. Eventually HR suggested she seek counseling. This person obviously thought people were making racist comments about him. It could be a form of paranoia.
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
I wasn't saying this murder was worse. I was saying that the way it was brought into our homes illuminated its brutality. And then to top it off, the killer boasting his efforts with Twitter posts showed how unapologetic and evil he truly is.
My point was that we are human beings. I don't have the energy or the capacity or the information to shed tears over every murder that happens in this damn country. You know it and he fucking knows it. But to get outraged about the 1 murder that I actually am privy to, perhaps the attention it garners can create change for the hundreds and hundreds of murders I'd never read about.
It's perfectly natural to have visceral reaction to seeing a young woman murdered, and being able to see it via a boastful post by the murder himself (and a young man too, though that wasn't in the video). And for that piece of human filth Peter to imply that people are picking and choosing their outrage is so disrespectful to literally everyone involved.
Quote:
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
I wasn't saying this murder was worse. I was saying that the way it was brought into our homes illuminated its brutality. And then to top it off, the killer boasting his efforts with Twitter posts showed how unapologetic and evil he truly is.
My point was that we are human beings. I don't have the energy or the capacity or the information to shed tears over every murder that happens in this damn country. You know it and he fucking knows it. But to get outraged about the 1 murder that I actually am privy to, perhaps the attention it garners can create change for the hundreds and hundreds of murders I'd never read about.
It's perfectly natural to have visceral reaction to seeing a young woman murdered, and being able to see it via a boastful post by the murder himself (and a young man too, though that wasn't in the video). And for that piece of human filth Peter to imply that people are picking and choosing their outrage is so disrespectful to literally everyone involved.
Actually, I was mostly focused on you.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I love those games because I always win!
Quote:
when people have to try and decipher what they think you meant while you were busy being an asshole with your post.
Sorry it went over your head. Next time, I'll dumb it down for you.
Okay, I'll let Brett know you're dumbing it down. I'd say maybe you can dumb down the douche factor too but we all know that's not happening.
Quote:
In comment 12436521 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
isn't gonna learn a lesson with a trial and imprisonment
In cases like this, I question whether trial and incarceration is even worth it.
Why is this guy substantially more twisted than all of the other people in this country who commit premeditated murder. It gets back to Buford's point, which she was unfairly jumped on for. There's something deeply wrong with premeditated murder. Whether it is mental illness or something else, I dont know, but normal people dont do this shit. Though if you chalk it up to mental illness then arent you saying that people like this shouldnt be convicted?
But IMO we dont incarcerate people for rehabilitation for the most part -- indeed of the 4 main justifications for incarceration I'd say rehab is dead last behind punishment, segregation, and deterrence.
It always amazes me that the criteria for 'not-guilty by reason of insanity' is that the crime was not pre-planned. If you are planning something like what happened today, you have to be off your rocker. As you said, normal people don't do this. Some may think about killing someone they really detest, but you have to be a bit off to actually do it. AND then post on social media and then try to kill yourself. And now we see this person has a history of making grievances at work and was fired for behavior. It may be hard to accept, but there are a lot of fucked up people who could go off any any moment. It's not something we can really control, but there are usually signs. But most people don't want to think that people they know, friends, co-workers, etc. could do something like this.
This might not be the most accurate explanation of a legal concept, but my understanding is that you can be mentally ill AND guilty. To be not guilty by reason of insanity you must be unable to comprehend the(for lack of a better word) consequences of your action. That's not a perfect explanation, but I think I got the basic concept across.
Quote:
In comment 12436595 illmatic said:
Quote:
when people have to try and decipher what they think you meant while you were busy being an asshole with your post.
Sorry it went over your head. Next time, I'll dumb it down for you.
Okay, I'll let Brett know you're dumbing it down. I'd say maybe you can dumb down the douche factor too but we all know that's not happening.
It's funny how you didn't understand my post but got a big enough case of the vapors to want me banned.
Quote:
In comment 12436595 illmatic said:
Quote:
when people have to try and decipher what they think you meant while you were busy being an asshole with your post.
Sorry it went over your head. Next time, I'll dumb it down for you.
Okay, I'll let Brett know you're dumbing it down. I'd say maybe you can dumb down the douche factor too but we all know that's not happening.
Why does Brett need to be told? I got the point.
Only one man can save us now.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I couldn't possibly care less about your personal life. But don't promulgate shit you know to be wron and don't set up straw men when you can't even argue your own POV.
It's pathetic.
Quote:
In comment 12436467 Modus Operandi said:
Quote:
You do realize that simply because an individual commits a reprehensible act, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're mentally ill? In fact, most mentally ill individuals are non violent.
Your assumption promulgates the stigma of mental illness.
Sorry, but anyone who would do something like this has issues related to mental illness. That doesn't mean that all mentally ill people commit crimes.
And you've diagnosed the patient via twitter/youtube, leaning on your many, many years of being wrong about virtually everything you've ever opened your mouth up about.
You are not a practitioner, nor are you qualified to make such an assessment.
Good grief people. Stop being so silly with your dislike of buford. She posted an opinion, one that many may share. And you guys get all over it with questions about medical expertise. Well, unless you coached in the NFL, its probably best if you dont offer opinions on the play of the Giants or the front office moves either. Sometimes the silliness is just a bit much.
Back to the topic at hand.
Did this guy die yet?
Yes. Look at what I've done. I've taken the wind out of your sails of your calling for another person to suffer.
Mike in Long Beach : 12:11 pm : link : reply
and has to be a quadriplegic in prison the rest of his life?
Mike in Long Beach : 12:24 pm : link : reply
prolonged suffering. He's really tapped into the worst in me, but it's how I feel at this moment.
Quote:
What is your context, exactly? Are all murders televised? How do you know this is different and how do you determine it's worse?
Murder is murder. It doesn't matter how it happens. It's a terrible thing for someone to do regardless of how they do it. People react more strongly to something they actually witness or see happen. It's natural. When you hear about murder on the news, you brush it off because you don't know anything about the people involved or how it went down. That doesn't mean it was any less savage or criminal.
I wasn't saying this murder was worse. I was saying that the way it was brought into our homes illuminated its brutality. And then to top it off, the killer boasting his efforts with Twitter posts showed how unapologetic and evil he truly is.
My point was that we are human beings. I don't have the energy or the capacity or the information to shed tears over every murder that happens in this damn country. You know it and he fucking knows it. But to get outraged about the 1 murder that I actually am privy to, perhaps the attention it garners can create change for the hundreds and hundreds of murders I'd never read about.
It's perfectly natural to have visceral reaction to seeing a young woman murdered, and being able to see it via a boastful post by the murder himself (and a young man too, though that wasn't in the video). And for that piece of human filth Peter to imply that people are picking and choosing their outrage is so disrespectful to literally everyone involved.
I think it's fair to point out. I also understand that it's natural to see something terrible like this and feel angered and upset by it. At the end of the day, we are picking and choosing though. Right or wrong.
Like I said, it was done in an insensitive/shitty way but it's not the worst point to try making.
You are a bad person, but at the end of the day harmless. So no, you haven't had any tangible impact here. It's not you that ruined my morning. It's him.
Link - ( New Window )
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
That is good. Conjecture here obviously, but I wonder if he didn't pursue her as she does not work at the station. She was just as easy a target as the other two.
Quote:
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
How does it marginalize a serious crime to ask whether he was suffering from mental health problems. Do you assume that people who stalk and kill other human beings like this while video taping the horror have it all together? That this guy was 100% mentally healthy?
all life is precious, or something like that. I guess.
Peter's not a good guy. He's getting his kicks by fucking with this thread.
Quote:
In comment 12436655 Deej said:
Quote:
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
How does it marginalize a serious crime to ask whether he was suffering from mental health problems. Do you assume that people who stalk and kill other human beings like this while video taping the horror have it all together? That this guy was 100% mentally healthy?
Claiming mental illness before any facts are in, I believe that's the issue here.
Quote:
In comment 12436655 Deej said:
Quote:
and I wont pretend to be an amateur, armchair psychiatrist. But what are the odds that this guy did not have a diagnosable mental health problem like depression? 1 in 14-15 Americans have depression in any given year, and I've seen estimates as high as 20-25% of Americans have a diagnosable MH condition.
Two reasons. Because it marginalizes a serious crime (just another crazy doing something crazy). The other one I discussed above.
How does it marginalize a serious crime to ask whether he was suffering from mental health problems. Do you assume that people who stalk and kill other human beings like this while video taping the horror have it all together? That this guy was 100% mentally healthy?
Where have I made a judgement one way or another? I have no fucking clue. I'm simply stating that killing a thing or person does not necessarily mean one is mentally ill.
Why is this such a difficult concept?
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Is that what we're doing now? Is there some murders' advocacy movement I'm unfamiliar with?
all life is precious, or something like that. I guess.
I think this is appropriate in the case of this asshole shooter.
Or maybe he showed up early watched for them to leave the station for assignment and followed them in his car. I doubt it would be hard to do if motivated to do so.
Or he could have just followed the van from the station
Peter's not a good guy. He's getting his kicks by fucking with this thread.
You're pathetic. People should go back and read your all of your posts. You were reasonable at the beginning. You were advised not to look at the video. You couldn't do that. You don't like to "shield your eyes from such things". Then, you went off the deep end. You "want" to see the video. You needed to see it. You "saw it just in time".
What you really need...is help.
This guy sounds like an angry asshole who wanted to inflict as much pain on the station as possible. It happens routinely enough in America of someone pissed off at work or a former employee and they show up and start shooting. In this case, it happened to be on live TV and he was prepared to broadcast even more video of it. He wanted all these visions out there to "get back" at the station. I'm sure he knew about the personal interactions with the crew and he wanted their loved ones to suffer as well.
I'm of like mind, I have zero desire to watch a video of people dying, especially while being murdered.
As bad as that was, at least it was self inflicted. This is worse, even if less graphic.
Quote:
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
Or maybe he showed up early watched for them to leave the station for assignment and followed them in his car. I doubt it would be hard to do if motivated to do so.
The thing with that is most TV stations are sending multiple trucks with different reporters out to different sites to do live reporting and leave relatively early in the morning and do not have their trucks right out on the street.
When I was working at Comcast Sports, when we would go out on an assignment, we had all the vans in a large garage underground and mostly out of sight. Our studios were downtown. But others in say, Phoenix by their baseball stadium, have a very small building that is very visible.
Unless she's the only reporter who does live stuff that early (since he worked here, he would probably know), he would have had to know the correct truck and know that it was her in order to pull this off without being tipped off in advance.
Sad situation. Prayers go out to the families.
Yes, very sad and disturbing. Didn't he end up being innocent when all was said and done?
What a chickenshit buffoon.
He's also openly gay and says he faced sexual harassment and has been "attacked by black men and white females."
I haven't read it, but it's available. Just passing along summaries
Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15
What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE (deleted)!!! He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him his boy, and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. Also, I was influenced by SeungHui Cho. Thats my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold gotjust sayin.'
He mentions body count like it's some kind of competition, but these 2 unfortunate souls. Just goes to show how crazy someone can get.
Senseless bullsh*t.
Yes, but some of them actually believe the grievances they file. Those are the ones that need help but rarely get it.
This might not be the most accurate explanation of a legal concept, but my understanding is that you can be mentally ill AND guilty. To be not guilty by reason of insanity you must be unable to comprehend the(for lack of a better word) consequences of your action. That's not a perfect explanation, but I think I got the basic concept across.
Well, I'm only going by what I hear from trials, like the recent Aurora shooting verdict. The pundits all say, well that showed pre-meditation (so I guess that means you know what you are doing), so the insanity plea won't work. I am saying they are insane buy obviously guilty. But would probably be better off in a mental institution than prison.
Quote:
fuck off. There was nothing wrong with what I said. If you think this person exhibited normal behavior, then that's your problem.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I couldn't possibly care less about your personal life. But don't promulgate shit you know to be wron and don't set up straw men when you can't even argue your own POV.
It's pathetic.
So you know what I said was wrong? What are YOU basing that on???
He had a freaking manifesto, yeah, real sane. Go troll somewhere else.
Unfortunately, as long as there's demand, there's supply.
Correct.
And I want to ask some people - if we decide this guy wasn't mentally ill, what is the alternative? That he was as completely sane as the people he shot to death? Does that mean that, from a mental health perspective, there's no appreciable difference between the victims and the killer?
Yes this was clearly a hate crime.
Sorry, that is definitively crazy.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
It was a toxic mix at play here.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
It was a toxic mix at play here.
Also perhaps a healthy dose of persecution complex.
Quote:
After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in Suicide Notes
Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15
What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE (deleted)!!! He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him his boy, and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. Also, I was influenced by SeungHui Cho. Thats my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold gotjust sayin.'
He insinuates he is down for a race war yet proceeds off himself... You are a very poor coward of a soldier you fuck...
Agreed.
Link - ( New Window )
It's very sad and I don't know what we can do to intervene in these types of cases before they get to this point.
Agreed. And he was just on Fox News and didn't seem like it was the day he lost his love. Me personally, I probably wouldn't say a damn word to anyone until I had a chance to decompress. To each their own I suppose.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
Idiots like this are simply terrorists. We've seen so many crazy individual shootings over the years. A big fear of mine for the future is that somehow several of these crazies get in touch with each other and organize something together. I know that the FBI and CIA and etc. are all doing a thorough job at making sure something like that never happens. And I know that most of these individuals are just trying to make an individual "statement" and that might not work in a group. Maybe this is just paranoia but we've seen 1 random shooter commit absolute atrocities, the thought of what several of them can do together with an organized plan scares the shit out of me.
RIP to Alison Parker and and Adam Ward. Just senseless.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
Which is why I said "to each their own".
And as humans we often compare others reactions to our own. Just human nature.
Quote:
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
I hope you haven't been in this type of situation, and if you haven't, how in the world do you know what you would be doing?
And you call what like you see it?
Same here, i've been thinking about it all day. I saw both videos earlier today and it was absolutely horrifying.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
The problem with this is that being let go from a job would probably not show up on a background check. Companies don't say why someone was let go because they can get sued. All they will do is confirm the dates of employment. That's why when you hire someone, you always try to get a reference from someone who worked directly with that person. And sometimes they are not allowed to say anything. I don't know if the EEOC report would show up.
At a February 2013 meeting, managers at WDBJ7 in Roanoke told Flanagan he wasnt a good fit and would be terminated. Flanagan became agitated before issuing a threat, one boss recalled in court papers.
Im not leaving, fumed Flanagan, who went by Bryce Williams on air. Youre going to have to call the fucking police. Call the police, Im not leaving. Im going to make a stink and its going to be in the headlines.
One former manager, Dan Dennison, claimed Flanagan terrified employees so much they took shelter in a locked office.
He repeated his feeling that firing him would lead to negative consequences for me personally and for the station, Dennison said, according to a statement in a racial discrimination lawsuit Flanagan filed in 2014, which was dismissed.
The disgruntled newsman handed Dennison a small wooden cross and warned him, Youll need this.
of course if he wasn't charged with anything, it probably would not have.
Link - ( New Window )
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
Background check for the most part only looks at any criminal history. And this can be a bit hazy as well since not everyone has felony (or even misdemeanor) records that will indicate that they should not be allowed to purchase weapons, especially when it comes to mental illness since no background check even touches one's medical records for obvious privacy reasons.
We're pretty much stuck in a society where guns are cheap and easy to get and our nutjobs have no trouble arming themselves.
Ronnie - if you have been involuntarily committed to an institution, that will show up...that's about it...or a court has a ruling against you...the system should not have let DR obtain a gun, for example.
Ronnie - if you have been involuntarily committed to an institution, that will show up...that's about it...or a court has a ruling against you...the system should not have let DR obtain a gun, for example.
Thanks, Rob. I didn't know about the involuntary commitment, but it makes sense.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
I'm a long island transplant living in NC now, bought my first gun 2 weeks ago, glock 19 9mm. In order to buy that gun i needed a pistol purchase permit. In order to get the pistol purchase permit i had to go to the county sheriffs office and fill out what basically equates to a job applicaton minus listing any previous employment. Filled it out and a few days later i was back at the sheriffs office picking up the purchase permit. So not hard at all if you don't have a fucked up background.
She is slated to join the Charlotte ABC affiliate next month and she and the cameraman were in Charlotte over the weekend finalizing a lease on an apartment.
She is slated to join the Charlotte ABC affiliate next month and she and the cameraman were in Charlotte over the weekend finalizing a lease on an apartment.
Now that is really sad. Within hours of relocating, and a nutjob crashes the whole thing.
They last spoke on Sunday.
Said Eberle: One of the things I found interesting was the comment he made to me, he says, You know TJ...Im a little burned out in this job, going to film peoples worse days, whether it be a fire or crime scene.
Eberle said he compiled a list of about 20 people he was going to speak with to help Ward land a job in marketing or public relations.
Chilling that he films people on their worst days and he met this kind of fate
Two Reporters Killed - ( New Window )
All gun homicides are like this, we aren't watching.
Quote:
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
I'm a long island transplant living in NC now, bought my first gun 2 weeks ago, glock 19 9mm. In order to buy that gun i needed a pistol purchase permit. In order to get the pistol purchase permit i had to go to the county sheriffs office and fill out what basically equates to a job applicaton minus listing any previous employment. Filled it out and a few days later i was back at the sheriffs office picking up the purchase permit. So not hard at all if you don't have a fucked up background.
Right. But this clown was so screwy his employer called the cops on him.
And he got to carry anyway.
Be careful who you piss off people. Be nice to irrational people.
active shooter at mississippi state.... woo hoo guns! - ( New Window )
All gun homicides are like this, we aren't watching.
Agreed, seriously don't need to watch a snuff film. Still haven't watched the footage and have no intention of watching it.
WDBJ cameraman Trevor Fair recalled others using the term field around Flanagan: We would say stuff like, The reporters out in the field. And he would look at us and say, What are you saying, cotton fields? Thats racist, he told the Post.
Wed be like, What? he added. We all know what that means, but he took it as cotton fields, and therefore were all racists.
This guy was a nightmare, Fair told the Post. Managements worst nightmare.
Then there was the time a station manager brought in watermelon for all employees. Of course, he thought that was racist. He was like, Youre doing that because of me. No, the general manager brought in watermelon for the entire news team. Hes like, Nope, this is out for me. You guys are calling me out because Im black.
7-Elevens sale of watermelon-flavored Slurpees didnt escape Flanagans observations, either.
Its not a coincidence, theyre racist, Fair recalled Flanagan saying.
Link - ( New Window )
WDBJ cameraman Trevor Fair recalled others using the term field around Flanagan: We would say stuff like, The reporters out in the field. And he would look at us and say, What are you saying, cotton fields? Thats racist, he told the Post.
Wed be like, What? he added. We all know what that means, but he took it as cotton fields, and therefore were all racists.
This guy was a nightmare, Fair told the Post. Managements worst nightmare.
Then there was the time a station manager brought in watermelon for all employees. Of course, he thought that was racist. He was like, Youre doing that because of me. No, the general manager brought in watermelon for the entire news team. Hes like, Nope, this is out for me. You guys are calling me out because Im black.
7-Elevens sale of watermelon-flavored Slurpees didnt escape Flanagans observations, either.
Its not a coincidence, theyre racist, Fair recalled Flanagan saying.
Link - ( New Window )
Wow.. We obviously knew the dude was batshit crazy, but when you hear that kind of rationale it's just terrifying.
Link - ( New Window )
You'd have to have the entire news room in on it, troopers, a guy willing to commit suicide, as well as an unsuspecting interviewee.
It is one thing if a guy filmed this in his basement with no witnesses, but there are people who saw the shooting happen.
People also seem set on the "there's no blood! And how does she run away after being shot?!" angle. It happens so fast and this isn't a horror movie where fake blood dramatically shoots out everywhere to enhance the effect.
If you read the comments on the link Peter posted it's actually scary how delusional people are.
The two people who were killed, who as arc says ostensibly have to be willing to start completely new lives somewhere else.
The wounded lady.
The shooter himself.
The staff at the TV station.
The police.
The paramedics who responded to the scene.
The doctors who operated on the wounded lady for hours.
The medical examiners who have custody of the deceased.
So let's say that, conservatively, there are two dozen people who are active participants. That doesn't even include the people who planned and funded the whole thing. Yet, somehow, the plot was so poorly carried out (in the minds of the mouthbreathers) that a bunch of dimwits on a web site can instantly detect the fakery??
I mean, let's think about this for a second. All of these people would plot something out that took attention to considerable amounts of detail, required countless people to be "in" on it and then would overlook one of the most obvious parts of the entire thing inexplicably?
Incredible.