At this point, the video would be needed for the authorities, but anything beyond that is a snuff film and I would never plan on clicking on any of these links or videos.
I'm of like mind, I have zero desire to watch a video of people dying, especially while being murdered.
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
Or maybe he showed up early watched for them to leave the station for assignment and followed them in his car. I doubt it would be hard to do if motivated to do so.
The thing with that is most TV stations are sending multiple trucks with different reporters out to different sites to do live reporting and leave relatively early in the morning and do not have their trucks right out on the street.
When I was working at Comcast Sports, when we would go out on an assignment, we had all the vans in a large garage underground and mostly out of sight. Our studios were downtown. But others in say, Phoenix by their baseball stadium, have a very small building that is very visible.
Unless she's the only reporter who does live stuff that early (since he worked here, he would probably know), he would have had to know the correct truck and know that it was her in order to pull this off without being tipped off in advance.
In some of the contents of his 23 page manifesto. Part of it is him saying he accepts the challenge of the church shooter for a race war. Says "bring it on". More sure to follow. This is going to dominate the news
In some of the contents of his 23 page manifesto. Part of it is him saying he accepts the challenge of the church shooter for a race war. Says "bring it on". More sure to follow. This is going to dominate the news
After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in ‘Suicide Notes’
“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”
“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, “As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE …(deleted)!!!” He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him “his boy,” and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. “Also, I was influenced by Seung–Hui Cho. That’s my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold got…just sayin.'
Dylann Roof killed peaceful, religious people who by all accounts loved their neighbors and believed in forgiveness. This asshole decided to kill more people in their name.
He mentions body count like it's some kind of competition, but these 2 unfortunate souls. Just goes to show how crazy someone can get.
Senseless bullsh*t.
Wish they would stop publicizing the rantings of murderers Â
It's more than just the multiple filing of grievances. I've seen people like that who are not mentally ill, just abusing the processes established to ensure a fair and equitable workplace. I'm talking about people who genuinely (in their minds) see conspiracies, malicious intent in things that are either innocent or even non-existent.
Yes, but some of them actually believe the grievances they file. Those are the ones that need help but rarely get it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Someone that's twisted enough to do this Â
This might not be the most accurate explanation of a legal concept, but my understanding is that you can be mentally ill AND guilty. To be not guilty by reason of insanity you must be unable to comprehend the(for lack of a better word) consequences of your action. That's not a perfect explanation, but I think I got the basic concept across.
Well, I'm only going by what I hear from trials, like the recent Aurora shooting verdict. The pundits all say, well that showed pre-meditation (so I guess that means you know what you are doing), so the insanity plea won't work. I am saying they are insane buy obviously guilty. But would probably be better off in a mental institution than prison.
fuck off. There was nothing wrong with what I said. If you think this person exhibited normal behavior, then that's your problem.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I couldn't possibly care less about your personal life. But don't promulgate shit you know to be wron and don't set up straw men when you can't even argue your own POV.
It's pathetic.
So you know what I said was wrong? What are YOU basing that on???
He had a freaking manifesto, yeah, real sane. Go troll somewhere else.
RE: Wish they would stop publicizing the rantings of murderers Â
They don't mean the same thing. There are a lot of people who are mentally ill but cannot use an insanity defense.
Correct.
And I want to ask some people - if we decide this guy wasn't mentally ill, what is the alternative? That he was as completely sane as the people he shot to death? Does that mean that, from a mental health perspective, there's no appreciable difference between the victims and the killer?
This thread represents everything I hate about the behavior of our posters when things take a turn for the worse. Everything inevitably disintegrates into name calling and vitriol. It's a shame we can't have more civilized discussions, but I guess that's just not possible.
To me, there are two very obvious disorders he suffers from in a big way. Narcissism and sociopathy.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
To me, there are two very obvious disorders he suffers from in a big way. Narcissism and sociopathy.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
It was a toxic mix at play here.
Also perhaps a healthy dose of persecution complex.
The guy's full of shit. Charleston is just something he latched on to in order to portray himself as some kind of righteous avenger. He shot at three people, yet the two he killed were former co-workers that he felt had wronged him. If this was some kind of vengeance for Charleston, why was the one person who survived the CoC lady with whom he had no prior relationship? Because he didn't really care if he killed her or not, but he was absolutely determined that the cameraman and reporter were going to die. He has a long history of workplace paranoia and grudges about his failed career. If Dylann Roof were still just some anonymous angry redneck kid, this guy likely still would have done what he did IMO.
After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in ‘Suicide Notes’
“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”
“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, “As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE …(deleted)!!!” He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him “his boy,” and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. “Also, I was influenced by Seung–Hui Cho. That’s my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold got…just sayin.'
He insinuates he is down for a race war yet proceeds off himself... You are a very poor coward of a soldier you fuck...
The guy's full of shit. Charleston is just something he latched on to in order to portray himself as some kind of righteous avenger. He shot at three people, yet the two he killed were former co-workers that he felt had wronged him. If this was some kind of vengeance for Charleston, why was the one person who survived the CoC lady with whom he had no prior relationship? Because he didn't really care if he killed her or not, but he was absolutely determined that the cameraman and reporter were going to die. He has a long history of workplace paranoia and grudges about his failed career. If Dylann Roof were still just some anonymous angry redneck kid, this guy likely still would have done what he did IMO.
Agreed.
Came across this on Reddit so I can't speak to its authenticity Â
social media and mental illness is because IMO (of course), social media has provided an outlet for some seriously disturbed people to live out their psychosis. It wasn't enough to kill these two people. He had to film it and put it on line. He could have had many things wrong with him, but the same scenario plays out as in other killings. Long held grievances, usually totally imagined, trigger event, and a desire to be noticed, hence the videos and the manifesto. It's a way of proving to everyone that they are important and we will regret how we treated them.
It's very sad and I don't know what we can do to intervene in these types of cases before they get to this point.
The boyfriend going to Twitter in the morning and then showing ... Â
... a picture book on TV later in the day rubs me the wrong way. I know, everyone grieves differently, but I just wouldn't.
Agreed. And he was just on Fox News and didn't seem like it was the day he lost his love. Me personally, I probably wouldn't say a damn word to anyone until I had a chance to decompress. To each their own I suppose.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
when they accept death and think they have nothing to lose.
Idiots like this are simply terrorists. We've seen so many crazy individual shootings over the years. A big fear of mine for the future is that somehow several of these crazies get in touch with each other and organize something together. I know that the FBI and CIA and etc. are all doing a thorough job at making sure something like that never happens. And I know that most of these individuals are just trying to make an individual "statement" and that might not work in a group. Maybe this is just paranoia but we've seen 1 random shooter commit absolute atrocities, the thought of what several of them can do together with an organized plan scares the shit out of me.
RIP to Alison Parker and and Adam Ward. Just senseless.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
Which is why I said "to each their own".
And as humans we often compare others reactions to our own. Just human nature.
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
I hope you haven't been in this type of situation, and if you haven't, how in the world do you know what you would be doing?
But when you watch the first person vid you can see why there is all of that lingering going on by the gunman before he takes his shot, it was purely tactical. When he walks up on them the camera guy doesn't have his camera on the reporter, all that lingering is just him waiting until the camera guy gets focused on her so the tv audience can see the reporter getting shot. As soon as the camera pans to the reporter he shoots
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
I was wondering why he seemed to appropach them, aim, Â
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
The problem with this is that being let go from a job would probably not show up on a background check. Companies don't say why someone was let go because they can get sued. All they will do is confirm the dates of employment. That's why when you hire someone, you always try to get a reference from someone who worked directly with that person. And sometimes they are not allowed to say anything. I don't know if the EEOC report would show up.
The day Flanagan was fired from a Virginia TV station in 2013, his bosses called 911 because of his volatile behavior—an incident captured on camera by Adam Ward, a man who would later become one of his victims.
At a February 2013 meeting, managers at WDBJ7 in Roanoke told Flanagan he wasn’t a good fit and would be terminated. Flanagan became “agitated” before issuing a threat, one boss recalled in court papers.
“I’m not leaving,” fumed Flanagan, who went by “Bryce Williams” on air. “You’re going to have to call the fucking police. Call the police, I’m not leaving. I’m going to make a stink and it’s going to be in the headlines.”
One former manager, Dan Dennison, claimed Flanagan terrified employees so much they took shelter in a locked office.
“He repeated… his feeling that firing him would lead to negative consequences for me personally and for the station,” Dennison said, according to a statement in a racial discrimination lawsuit Flanagan filed in 2014, which was dismissed.
The disgruntled newsman handed Dennison a small wooden cross and warned him, “You’ll need this.”
of course if he wasn't charged with anything, it probably would not have. Link - ( New Window )
When you combine the first person video with the live broadcast, piecing things together it is clear his lingering was solely because the camera guy was panning across the scenery and didn't have the reporter in the camera shot. As soon as he pans to get her in the shot the gunman fires
does a background check on a gun purchase go? I have never bought a gun so I have no idea what is asked or what you need to provide.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
Background check for the most part only looks at any criminal history. And this can be a bit hazy as well since not everyone has felony (or even misdemeanor) records that will indicate that they should not be allowed to purchase weapons, especially when it comes to mental illness since no background check even touches one's medical records for obvious privacy reasons.
It's a fool's errand to think we can create a rule that will Â
predict who will use a gun for something like this or murdering his family or something random like Sandy Hook. And the 2nd amendment basically prohibits trying anyway.
We're pretty much stuck in a society where guns are cheap and easy to get and our nutjobs have no trouble arming themselves.
For example, you will be denied a firearm if your wife/ex-wife has a restraining order against you, but no one else?
Ronnie - if you have been involuntarily committed to an institution, that will show up...that's about it...or a court has a ruling against you...the system should not have let DR obtain a gun, for example.
I'm of like mind, I have zero desire to watch a video of people dying, especially while being murdered.
As bad as that was, at least it was self inflicted. This is worse, even if less graphic.
Quote:
I am watching. How did he know where they were going to be early this morning? Someone speculated he might have got the information from someone at the station.
Or maybe he showed up early watched for them to leave the station for assignment and followed them in his car. I doubt it would be hard to do if motivated to do so.
The thing with that is most TV stations are sending multiple trucks with different reporters out to different sites to do live reporting and leave relatively early in the morning and do not have their trucks right out on the street.
When I was working at Comcast Sports, when we would go out on an assignment, we had all the vans in a large garage underground and mostly out of sight. Our studios were downtown. But others in say, Phoenix by their baseball stadium, have a very small building that is very visible.
Unless she's the only reporter who does live stuff that early (since he worked here, he would probably know), he would have had to know the correct truck and know that it was her in order to pull this off without being tipped off in advance.
Sad situation. Prayers go out to the families.
Yes, very sad and disturbing. Didn't he end up being innocent when all was said and done?
What a chickenshit buffoon.
He's also openly gay and says he faced sexual harassment and has been "attacked by black men and white females."
I haven't read it, but it's available. Just passing along summaries
“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”
“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, “As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE …(deleted)!!!” He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him “his boy,” and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. “Also, I was influenced by Seung–Hui Cho. That’s my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold got…just sayin.'
He mentions body count like it's some kind of competition, but these 2 unfortunate souls. Just goes to show how crazy someone can get.
Senseless bullsh*t.
Yes, but some of them actually believe the grievances they file. Those are the ones that need help but rarely get it.
This might not be the most accurate explanation of a legal concept, but my understanding is that you can be mentally ill AND guilty. To be not guilty by reason of insanity you must be unable to comprehend the(for lack of a better word) consequences of your action. That's not a perfect explanation, but I think I got the basic concept across.
Well, I'm only going by what I hear from trials, like the recent Aurora shooting verdict. The pundits all say, well that showed pre-meditation (so I guess that means you know what you are doing), so the insanity plea won't work. I am saying they are insane buy obviously guilty. But would probably be better off in a mental institution than prison.
Quote:
fuck off. There was nothing wrong with what I said. If you think this person exhibited normal behavior, then that's your problem.
And I say this as someone who has been in therapy and is currently taking medication. So I know crazy.
And do me a favor and just ignore my posts from now on, as I usually ignore yours. Your behavior towards me borders on stalking and it should stop. You may want to get some therapy yourself if you feel you just can't control yourself.
I couldn't possibly care less about your personal life. But don't promulgate shit you know to be wron and don't set up straw men when you can't even argue your own POV.
It's pathetic.
So you know what I said was wrong? What are YOU basing that on???
He had a freaking manifesto, yeah, real sane. Go troll somewhere else.
Unfortunately, as long as there's demand, there's supply.
Correct.
And I want to ask some people - if we decide this guy wasn't mentally ill, what is the alternative? That he was as completely sane as the people he shot to death? Does that mean that, from a mental health perspective, there's no appreciable difference between the victims and the killer?
Yes this was clearly a hate crime.
Sorry, that is definitively crazy.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
It was a toxic mix at play here.
Narcissism because he thought it was his responsibility and right to avenge the deaths of those in the predominantly African American church. He injected himself personally into that situation.
But narcissism alone doesn't lead to this. He seems to be a sociopath. Someone who has no empathy for others. No care for the suffering of others. So in his warped mind, it was justified to take the lives of these innocent people because
1) It was his right and responsibility (narcissism)
2) The victims were equally culpable of any white person in his mind (sociopathy).
It was a toxic mix at play here.
Also perhaps a healthy dose of persecution complex.
Quote:
After Shooting, Alleged Gunman Details Grievances in ‘Suicide Notes’
“Why did I do it? I put down a deposit for a gun on 6/19/15. The Church shooting in Charleston happened on 6/17/15…”
“What sent me over the top was the church shooting. And my hollow point bullets have the victims’ initials on them."
It is unclear whose initials he is referring to. He continues, “As for Dylann Roof? You (deleted)! You want a race war (deleted)? BRING IT THEN YOU WHITE …(deleted)!!!” He said Jehovah spoke to him, telling him to act.
Later in the manifesto, the writer quotes the Virginia Tech mass killer, Seung Hui Cho, calls him “his boy,” and expresses admiration for the Columbine High School killers. “Also, I was influenced by Seung–Hui Cho. That’s my boy right there. He got NEARLY double the amount that Eric Harris and Dylann Klebold got…just sayin.'
He insinuates he is down for a race war yet proceeds off himself... You are a very poor coward of a soldier you fuck...
Agreed.
Link - ( New Window )
It's very sad and I don't know what we can do to intervene in these types of cases before they get to this point.
Agreed. And he was just on Fox News and didn't seem like it was the day he lost his love. Me personally, I probably wouldn't say a damn word to anyone until I had a chance to decompress. To each their own I suppose.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
Idiots like this are simply terrorists. We've seen so many crazy individual shootings over the years. A big fear of mine for the future is that somehow several of these crazies get in touch with each other and organize something together. I know that the FBI and CIA and etc. are all doing a thorough job at making sure something like that never happens. And I know that most of these individuals are just trying to make an individual "statement" and that might not work in a group. Maybe this is just paranoia but we've seen 1 random shooter commit absolute atrocities, the thought of what several of them can do together with an organized plan scares the shit out of me.
RIP to Alison Parker and and Adam Ward. Just senseless.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
Which is why I said "to each their own".
And as humans we often compare others reactions to our own. Just human nature.
Quote:
even for a second judging how someone grieves. I could see being skeptical if the husband or fiancee or whatever could be a potential suspect, but we know that's not the case here.
I pray to God none of us are ever in that position, but we truly have no idea how we would react if we were.
My heart goes out to that guy.
I call them like I see them. And I can tell you that I would not be tweeting if anything close to this happened to me.
I hope you haven't been in this type of situation, and if you haven't, how in the world do you know what you would be doing?
And you call what like you see it?
Same here, i've been thinking about it all day. I saw both videos earlier today and it was absolutely horrifying.
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
The problem with this is that being let go from a job would probably not show up on a background check. Companies don't say why someone was let go because they can get sued. All they will do is confirm the dates of employment. That's why when you hire someone, you always try to get a reference from someone who worked directly with that person. And sometimes they are not allowed to say anything. I don't know if the EEOC report would show up.
At a February 2013 meeting, managers at WDBJ7 in Roanoke told Flanagan he wasn’t a good fit and would be terminated. Flanagan became “agitated” before issuing a threat, one boss recalled in court papers.
“I’m not leaving,” fumed Flanagan, who went by “Bryce Williams” on air. “You’re going to have to call the fucking police. Call the police, I’m not leaving. I’m going to make a stink and it’s going to be in the headlines.”
One former manager, Dan Dennison, claimed Flanagan terrified employees so much they took shelter in a locked office.
“He repeated… his feeling that firing him would lead to negative consequences for me personally and for the station,” Dennison said, according to a statement in a racial discrimination lawsuit Flanagan filed in 2014, which was dismissed.
The disgruntled newsman handed Dennison a small wooden cross and warned him, “You’ll need this.”
of course if he wasn't charged with anything, it probably would not have.
Link - ( New Window )
Just wondering if current and former employers are checked and if they weren't listed how else would authorities might have found out about this lunatic's past. His EEOC complaint produced many threatening letters from the station during in the review. Would the background check had surfaced those?
Background check for the most part only looks at any criminal history. And this can be a bit hazy as well since not everyone has felony (or even misdemeanor) records that will indicate that they should not be allowed to purchase weapons, especially when it comes to mental illness since no background check even touches one's medical records for obvious privacy reasons.
We're pretty much stuck in a society where guns are cheap and easy to get and our nutjobs have no trouble arming themselves.
Ronnie - if you have been involuntarily committed to an institution, that will show up...that's about it...or a court has a ruling against you...the system should not have let DR obtain a gun, for example.