So did we basically just lose our third safety for the year?

Brilliant !!!

What has Nat or this staff done to give us any confidence? Maybe we'd see him in November?

does a football player suffer a calf injury of this magnitude when he didn't even hurt it on the football field? He hurt it before the OTA's even began.

He hurt while simply running.

Quote:

EAST RUTHERFORD ‐ Nat Berhe was running last month and all of a sudden his leg felt strange. It was as if someone flicked the back of his calf. Immediately, Berhe knew something was wrong. He was right. The spring that was supposed to propel the second-year safety into a starting role was spoiled. Berhe has been on the sideline ever since with a calf injury. "[Training] camp is what we're looking for," he said of his return after doing some light jogging Tuesday on the side on the first day of Giants minicamp. "One hundred percent. [Training camp] is something I'm not even worried about." Berhe began running last week. He feels good right now, pain-free. He believes he could have returned earlier, if necessary. But it's only June.

Giants safety Nat Berhe says watch out for him in training camp - ( New Window )

then Conway. Any of the cb's here on roster move over to safety?

Josh Gordy has played safety.

pray they don't get hurt, or else this defense might set records for plays allowed over 20 yards.

but is there any realistic chance of trading for weddle

it didn't Merritt talk about chykie being a natural safety

I'm serious. That's the only thing that will work at this point for Berhe

yoga trainers to augment their stretching program. As far as Berhe, he can blame Fewell. Gordy looks like he has some range. If Spagnuolo is serious about playing 3-deep some of the time, the safety who has the back third of the coverage has to have range. For 1 year Stevie Brown gave them that type of play. And, folks, that is not Collins. The Giants need to get somebody else in; that is for damn sure.

In comment 12437170 Jazzertpt Go Big Blue! said:

Quote:

but is there any realistic chance of trading for weddle

Craig Dahl might be more realistic: a former Giant who played for Spags in St. Louis and is currently listed as a backup on the 49ers and they are deep at safety (Eric Reid, Antoine Bethea, Jimmy Ward, Jaquiski Tartt).

was for it to happen now. At least these new guys are getting some exposure in camp as opposed to trying to pick up a guy during the season.

You play the hand you are dealt. While we haven't seen great safety play so far we havent seen big plays over the top because of miscommunication so that is a positive. It isnt like we didnt address the position. But Rolle is looking very good now. Too bad we didn't make an offer. I understand why. Too bad Will Hill couldn't get it together. He's looking really good too. Stevie Brown? I dont miss him one bit.

This is from one of their beat writers re: his 53 man roster predictions...

Quote:

I also took the plunge on a couple veterans. I cut Tony Jerod-Eddie and Craig Dahl. I still have a gut feeling that Dahl makes the roster, but in trying to find some room for Nick Bellore, I cut Dahl. My concern is whether or not the team is comfortable with some combination of Jimmie Ward, L.J. McCray and Jaquiski Tartt as reserve options at safety. Hopefully Ward gets on the field this week, but even that is not a certainty. If Ward does not get into the game against Denver, I feel even stronger that Dahl ends up making the team.

It might be worth a 7th round pick to land him ASAP, although I also read that he missed a couple of practices with a back problem, so cue the "that's the last thing we need" comments.

In comment 12437182 RetroJint said:

Quote:

yoga trainers to augment their stretching program. As far as Berhe, he can blame Fewell. Gordy looks like he has some range. If Spagnuolo is serious about playing 3-deep some of the time, the safety who has the back third of the coverage has to have range. For 1 year Stevie Brown gave them that type of play. And, folks, that is not Collins. The Giants need to get somebody else in; that is for damn sure.

Has anyone in here done yoga? Now. -- who here has done a 90 minute hot yoga routine in a 100 degree heat - 70% humidity studio? Huge fucking difference. Yoga stretches here and there can help PT, I'm talking about deep strengthening and stretching- the hot studio let's you go further than normal - you heal quicker. It's like flossing, brushing, and listerine for the entire body. I will not be impressed until the team takes it up a notch with these guys.

anymore. Can't stand the thought of watching more players get carted off the field.

4?

if so, they really lost Thompson and Behre. two fringe players with upside.

Thompson was so bad last year in college (from all the reading I've done - admit I didn't watch him) he wasn't invited to the combine and wasn't expected to be drafted.

that he was fairly healthy his entire college career.

We're going to be stealing other teams castoffs. Look for practice squad guys from other teams.

Let's face it. It's ugly. Behre may go on short term IR or just IR.

think a lot of players in all sports become prone to injury because their training takes bodies beyond natural limits. So you end up with a lot of non contact injuries, and everyone says, "he wasn't even playing, just running." Their bodies are like rubber bands that have been stretched to the breaking point. Any additional tension and they snap. It's probably something that will be difficult to solve.

does anyone know what they are doing over there?

????

we basically we counting on Collins, Berhe, Taylor, and Bennett.....Berhe was injured last year, and showed nothing....Taylor is a walking cast....Bennett was recovering from knee problems.....counting on 3 guys already returning from injuries....

And then we have Collins, who has not played one down in an NFL game....

Wishful thinking on Reese's part...I mean, really, do we need safeties?

But I think Reese mad a mistake in opting not to try and resign Rolle once McCourty resigned with the Patriots. I realize he liked the potential of both Taylor and Berhe and probably had a plan for Jackson but we all know Taylor is as fragile as a China doll and there little experience back there. Rolle signed a modest three year $12 million contract with only $5 million guaranteed. He was also pretty durable. Maybe Rolle would not have signed a similar contract with the Giants. Maybe he would have gotten injured as well but I think we were playing with fire at the Safety position since last March.

What concrete steps have the Giants taken to reduce the injury issues? Mara made a big deal about this in the offseason yet we continue to be decimated. Are we just really unlucky or is there an underlying reason?

an article in the Post, we have lost 22 of the 90 players in camp to injury time. That's just ridiculous.

Quote:

Before whoever was lost today, according to.... Crispino : 9:07 pm : link : reply an article in the Post, we have lost 22 of the 90 players in camp to injury time. That's just ridiculous.

So far, the Panthers have had 36 players missing a practice, Dallas has had 34 players and New England has had 27 players miss time.

That's out of the 5 teams I actually could get info on.

I assumed the number was high since the article was about the spate of injuries. Good job offering perspective.

But it's also WHO is missing time, reps and on field action.

The Giants have missed their ENTIRE starting defensive backfield for what a couple dozen practices combined?

Starting LT.

Starting RG.

Starting slot receiver.

Starting MLB.

Starting RT.

Starting OLB.

Any other starters?

It's not like the Giants are missing a ton of straight camp fodder.

that's really been what has killed the team. It isn't the amount of injuries, it is that they've been clustered.

One year it was DB's and RB's. We've pretty much had times during the past few years where not a single starter was around at a position and we were fielding street guys.

when it happens to this extent year after year. Keep sweeping the notion under the rug that our strength and conditioning program has a serious flaw somewhere. Could be over training. Could be pre or post practice routines... who knows?

I can accept guys getting rolled up on resulting in knee injuries. Broken bones will happen with the collisions.

Seems like more than half of our injuries are non contact related.

if there was a pattern of similar injuries, you could start to take certain things to task, but the Giants have a distribution of injuries that doesn't favor muscular vs. bones or head injuries.

And I hate when people keep saying that because we've been injured lately that it is completely indicative of something being done incorrectly.

Outside the past three years, we are actually right in the middle of the pack in injuries. If you look at the data since 2000, the Giants are 16th in injuries. And they are the best of the three teams in N Y.

I bemoan injuries more than anyone else because games lost to starter has been one of the most predictive stats to how a team will finish, but bemoaning injuries and placing blame are two completely different things.

Not trying to be argumentative...but how is it that a player who "strained" his calf running in May still can't get on the practice field three months later after being held out of all of the May/June work and most of August?

It doesn't make sense.

Its possible but not likely in a young man. Either someone is not being completely honest about the injury or this young man did something he should not have done. OBJ's hammy lingered last year, much to the chagrin of many of us at BBI. Hopefully this young man gets on the field at some point as OBJ did.

with previous injuries...

the wife does hot yoga at least three times a week. She comes back red and exhauster, but thoroughly loose and supple! It is a taxing method of stretching and relaxation at the same time. Very few men participate in those classes.

I have a feeling we're going to be seeing a good deal of Gordy this year. The Behre thing is inexplicable, so Giants and Mets-like.

a "strain" could've been a pull and it could have been aggravated a few times.

We don't know and the team isn't going to divulge the exacts of any injury.

Not sure how not recovering from an injury reflects on the team though. You see it with players all over the league, especially WR's and DB's. They are often out long periods of time with strains - hamstrings, calfs, etc.

If you're not a core player NYG can't carry you if you're hurt. They're not deep enough.

Sad.

sounds more like a torn calf than a pull or a strain.

when people try to come back too soon from them, don't deal with electrolytes, and have muscular tightness in other areas of the body that cause imperceptible overcompensations to correct them.

Both the player and the training staff ought to know this by now, and the fact that Berhe's been on the couch for four months is a pretty huge indictment of both.

of how the Giants prepare their team for workouts?

Unless you know the routines, you are trying to place blame on 'trainers' without knowing anything. You want them to 'take it up a notch' without knowing what they do now. You only know that players are getting hurt, and you're frustrated and taking wild swings at a more complicated problem than "Fire ___!"

one misconception in these discussions is the role of the trainers anyway.

I've tried to educate people here for years on that topic. Trainers are basically the ones that handle things after they've happened. there is very little they can do from a preventative stance, especially with the tensile strength of athletic tape doing little to protect massive forces on joints.

Strength and conditioning could be a place to point a finger, but like you said, we don't have innate knowledge of what their methods are. From looking at the injury breakdowns, the team doesn't seem to have one particular type of injury that stands out more than others.

I'd be more on the side that bad luck is at play and signing players with previous injury history is as well before I'd place blame on the staff.

But, most people really don't take a rational look - if they did, they'd realize that injuries are cyclical.

I agree that the variety of injuries has been such that it's difficult to pinpoint an underlying cause. there have been concussions, broken, sprained and strained bones, muscles, ligaments all over the body.

the hot yoga comment is interesting, the falcons incorporate a lot of yoga into their routines and they are usually at the top of the pack when it comes to least missed games due to injury.

Many of us were worried going into this season with the safeties we had. It's not just that they might not perform well - it's that they had no NFL track record to go on in many cases.

Reese too often relies on injured and unproven players as part of his "plan" - and then wonders in amazement when so many never stay on the field.

I continue to point at the Beason move as evidence of this. If Beason is your plan A then you might as well promote your plan B to plan A. At this stage of his career, Beason is the kind of player good teams stay away from or sign cheap as a backup. We signed him to a starter deal to anchor our LB corps... Come on!

I have one word to say:

MCCOURTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It was JR's responsibility to handcuff McCourty to a chair until he signed a Giants contract back in March! There was wasted money spent on too many special teams' players like and Castillo and Harris (let's see what he does with Tom Quinn - "I'm lucky to have been with the Giants for the past 10 years while coaching among the worst specials teams' units in the NFL year after year" - as the Special Team's coach????).

JR reminds me of the Mets ownership and Sandy Alderson (pre-Cespedes). They are always looking for "lightning in a bottle" type of players.

Guess what. It doesn't work! After we finish this season just treading water above the Redskins to avoid finishing last, I hope that John Mara is a man of his word and guts the entire team including Eli and JPP. We can finish third with them or without both of them!!!!!!!!!
It's time to get under the cap and fill the positions of paucity with young FA talent.

How about some more OLmen, some DBs, an explosive RB, a few DLmen who can attack and BEEZERS, BEEZERS, BEEZERS (just like the kind of team that brought us previous Super Bowls).

Let's once again win with DEFENSE which has been always been the sine qua non paramount of exemplary WINNING GIANTS' FOOTBALL TEAMS over the past 20 years!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do it JM!!!!!!!!!!

The Eagles are using a very different exercise regimen than the Giants. Tom C. is too old school to change. The NFL has changed but we have not progressed with them. Thus, the rash of injuries.

Why are we one of the most injured teams in the NFL, and the Eagles are the least since Chip took over.

This is not rocket science folks! Get some more stretching done (with a more progressive philosphy) and keep your long-muscled players (safeties, CBs, WRs, lean RBs) to a modicum of weight room training. Work on the long muscles more consistently.

it have to be said that it isn't just muscular injuries occurring to the DB's?

Two of them are lost to ACL's - stretching doesn't prevent ACL tears, and the Eagles have also had guys tear ligaments. I'm not saying there isn't anything the Giants can't be doing differently, but for people to think they know enough to recommend a regimen is simply foolish.

but here is what I do know. Given the remaining healthy talent on the team at the DB position, if the Giants don't generate a fast, consistent pass rush this year, they are screwed. "Brilliant" I know, but it's as simple as that.

But building a team in a violent contact sport with a salary cap is not easy. Hard choices must be made.

I wanted Rolle back - but not at $4 mil/yr ($5 mil guaranteed)

McCourty broke the bank AND was clear that he was always going back to NE

Moved up to get Landon Collins (drafted Mykkele)
Hoped that Behr, Cooper, BJackson would work out
Got Jeromy Miles on a minimum contract

It wasn't a ridiculous plan

Does the team have at its training facility and on its field...whatever it is, change it