I thought he was going to start doing that on 3rd downs? Somehow, someway, Spags needs to generate a pass rush or our secondary will be toast. Additionally, we have to stop the run. Lost containment too many times on the edges, gave up yards up the gut too?! Did anyone see how Hank played tonight? Really did not see anything exceptional, but wasn't really focused on him. Kuhn was blocked time and time again. I still do not see what the coaches see.
1. Flowers is a stud. Still has to work on moving laterally on traps. But he will be decent this year and a top LT down the road.
2. OL overall looked decent. Eli had a reasonable amount of time. Giants kept running the ball on first down because that's what they are working on improving. In the real games, you will see more mixture and defenses won't be able to key on the run as they were tonight.
3. I could have completed that TD to OBJ. That was an horrendous throw by Eli. But 90% of the time that is a TD and suddenly the score doesn't look so bad. Jets were stacking the box and the Giants went to make them pay and Eli just missed it. Preseason for him, too. Nothing to be concerned about.
4. Kennard is a player. A real LB who likes to hit. Giants have not had one since Barrow.
5. Two guys we worried about all offseason--Schwartz and Taylor--are both playing and rounding into shape. To be honest, I expected nothing from either of them.
6. Vereen is going to make this offense much more dynamic. As the season progresses, I think we will see less and less of Hyno and more of a spread offense.
7. The defense will struggle to start the season but I think eventually you will see the young DL start to assert themselves. I have no doubt that they can have a hellacious pass rush down the line. The key will be stopping the run. That's why getting the LBers healthy is important.
Overall, the team has ben bad in preseason games but there have been a lot of positive individual performances from key players and that's what you should look for in preseason, especially when you are rebuilding and have a brand new DC and a second year OC.
This has to be the only team that players routinely get injured
in warmups...it looked more like an Achilles than an ankle because he just seemed to fall..not as if he missteped where you would think it was an ankle.
I did not see the game tonight, but from what I am reading, there seems to be more issues with how we are controlling the line of scrimmage, and that's a huge concern.
Two plays were the difference in the game.....pick six and a punt return. Perhaps we give the special teams some slack as there are guys playing there that won't be around come opening day.
Good to see OBJ getting free and making some catches, Eli will hit him come regular season.
I did not see the game tonight, but from what I am reading, there seems to be more issues with how we are controlling the line of scrimmage, and that's a huge concern.
Two plays were the difference in the game.....pick six and a punt return. Perhaps we give the special teams some slack as there are guys playing there that won't be around come opening day.
Good to see OBJ getting free and making some catches, Eli will hit him come regular season.
Despite what some claim ST hasn't been great IMO. Too often this preseason I watched returners catch Brown's kicks deep in their end zone but somehow managed to get a return of 25+ yards. That shouldn't happen with good coverage. Returners have been making tacklers miss quite a bit on their first attempts.
1. Eli had a poor game. It's OK because it's the preseason though. He should have hit that throw to Odell when he beat Revis down the sideline though and made an unforced error near halftime by not throwing it away when Cromartie was sitting on the route
2. As Schwartz goes, so goes the offensive line. This is a scary thought because Schwartz is never healthy, but when he's in there the line is stable because we can run to the right and Eli gets a cleaner pocket. I think the Giants are getting him in for about 15-20 reps each game just to get his game conditioning back and then he'll be ready to start at right guard week 1. He's a guard, not a tackle and needs to play at guard.
3. Pugh had an off night. Now I know he was going up against Wilkerson who is one of the best but he'll see Wilkerson again along with Suh in Miami and Gerald McCoy down in Tampa, so he'll need to up his game a little bit.
4. Jerome Cunningham is not just better than Robinson, he might be better than Donnell. He's making rapid strides and eventually could be a complete TE. I think McAdoo likes Donnell more because of his receiving abilities but Cunningham has similar athleticism and is a far better blocker, which we'll need with one of the tackle positions (RT) unsteady.
5. Flowers is a franchise LT for the next decade, barring injury. He just stuffed whoever he was facing and is a monster in the run game. Once Beatty returns he has to go to RT.
6. The defensive line is a sieve, but it's not Spags' fault. They have ZERO pass rush and it will take the entire season to produce a pass rusher out of this group (probably O2). Wynn is average, Moore isn't developing and I'm not sure it's really a good pass rush even with Ayers there. Ellis needs to play next to Hankins to at least ensure that the middle is stout, and he has to cut out the stupidity (that late hit flag was awful. They're always going to nail the phat-boy defensive tackle who piles on after the play). They need 4-finger JPP back in the worst way.
7. Without Beason, the LBs are average. Kennard + Beason is passable, but Kennard without Beason is almost by himself in the LB corps. I'm still not convinced we have a weakside LB. The jury is still out on JT Thomas. Uaga showed why he is a practice squad player (not enough strength to take on big RBs and not enough speed to keep up with fast RBs).
8. DRC and Prince are good, but they'll look bad without any safeties, and there's little Spags can do about it other than coach them up and hope for the best. Collins will be good but he's still a rookie and learning the game. Meriweather is the second best safety on the roster, which is scary in of itself. Maybe Cooper Taylor wins a spot but he can't play FS, which means Collins would have to play FS, and I think Collins is a better SS. As for Week 1, Jason Witten is probably a good pick in daily fantasy sports because of our safety situation.
9. Coughlin wasn't kidding about Weatherford. His job is actually on the line. He might be OK though because one of Malone's punts was returned for a TD.
10. For a backup C, Reynolds didn't do terribly against one of the best defensive fronts in the league, but Richburg is still clearly better. I think Reynolds made the team tonight just due to that.
1) How does Kuhn continue to get the start? Are most of us just missing something or is this staff nuts?
2) Why are they not starting Schwartz? It can't be to limit snaps, because he played a lot of snaps last week.
3) I may be nuts myself, but I'm still not extremely worried. It's preseason. But, I have sad all along not to expect miracles on D because Spags isn't the genius many (most?) think he is.
1) How does Kuhn continue to get the start? Are most of us just missing something or is this staff nuts?
2) Why are they not starting Schwartz? It can't be to limit snaps, because he played a lot of snaps last week.
3) I may be nuts myself, but I'm still not extremely worried. It's preseason. But, I have sad all along not to expect miracles on D because Spags isn't the genius many (most?) think he is.
Agreed on the first point. They seriously can't start Kuhn against Travis Frederick and Zack Martin Week 1....if that happens they'll open up holes you or I could run through
As for the second point, they might want to limit his reps in the preseason due to the ankle surgery and are slowly getting him in game shape for Week 1. When healthy he has to start at right guard
As for the last point...I think the offense will get it together and Spags is an excellent defensive coordinator. The problem is talent on the defense, especially in the front 7. Even when Beason is there we only have 3 reliable players in the front 7 (Hankins, Kennard, Beason) and no legit pass rushers. They need JPP back in the worst way and hopefully a still functional JPP, otherwise QBs will be able to do their taxes and read War and Peace back there
When Schwartz was finally in at RG, the Giants had their best drive of the preseason. Need to figure out what to do at RT. Newhouse is a mess. Need to scour the wire for a LG or RT.
Pugh has look better at tackle than he has at guard. Did the coaching staff ever consider moving Pugh back to RT when Beatty got hurt or even letting Flowers go at RT and letting Pugh play the position that he played in college at LT.
When Beatty went down, I thought the Giants should have inserted Pugh at LT and moved Flowers to RT. Yeah, I know, LG would be an issue, but Flowers would be dominant at RT and Pugh would be comparable to Flowers at LT.
What is the evidence of Spags being a great DC? He has not overseen a great defense yet. He has been involved with some terrible ones and rode the coattails of a dominant DL in the SB year. He is good, but not some genius.
Something just doesn't add up. they can't say he isn't starting to limit his snaps and ease him in because last week he played a ton at both RG and RT. Why not just start him for a series or two and call it a night? What is the benefit/purpose of bringing him after a couple of drives?
When they don't make the playoffs this year, Reese needs to be fired. But he won't be and it will be the same shit again.
Even Steve Jobs got fired when he needed to get his head out of his ass at Apple. He came back after he found himself.
I could be wrong but I don't see this talent on the team winning more than 5 games (Skins (2), Jets, 49ers and bucs or bills).
You are aware that they lost their best player (JPP) to a fireworks accident and they've lost 4 safeties for the season, correct? And this is Reese's fault how?
It's not a given that Pugh at left tackle would work
What is the evidence of Spags being a great DC? He has not overseen a great defense yet. He has been involved with some terrible ones and rode the coattails of a dominant DL in the SB year. He is good, but not some genius.
2008...no Strahan (retired), no Osi (injured) and the Giants were near the top of the league in defense
Even in 2007, with the dominant DL, the best linebackers were Pierce (good but not great) and Mitchell (average)
Webster and Ross were a work in progress almost the entire season at corner; Webster almost lost his job before having a great playoff run, especially in his matchup against TO. We were fortunate to have Madison and McQuarters as reliable veteran cover at corner. Gibril Wilson and James Butler were the safeties (not exactly Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor)
They have a pretty decent rotation of 8 DL if they can ever get Kuhn out of there. There are no stars but a lot of decent players who could surprise people as a unit. their LBs are improved and deeper and they have a very good tandem of CBs. With Collins healthy I think they will have a very good S, just maybe not right away. They are very thin at S after him though, so FS and depth is a crap shoot. It was nice to see Taylor contribute tonight. Could he possible start?
They have a pretty decent rotation of 8 DL if they can ever get Kuhn out of there. There are no stars but a lot of decent players who could surprise people as a unit. their LBs are improved and deeper and they have a very good tandem of CBs. With Collins healthy I think they will have a very good S, just maybe not right away. They are very thin at S after him though, so FS and depth is a crap shoot. It was nice to see Taylor contribute tonight. Could he possible start?
No gamebreakers on the DL like Spags had in his first stint here. The only player on the line that compares to his 2007 or even 2008 counterpart is Hankins (vs. Robbins or Cofield). Pass rush is the name of the game on defense in today's NFL, even more than run-stuffing. If we start Ellis next to Hankins we'll have some of the run-stuffing part figured out, but the pass rush is still toothless
and a top 5-7 in 2008. The Rams teams when he was HC were terrible, the Saints D was one of the all time worst, and the Ravens had decent defenses when he was there, but were poor against the pass, which was where he was chiefly involved. Like I said, I think he is a good DC, but I don't think he is amazing or game changing. They should be a middle of the pack D. That is better than they've been, but part of that is addition by subtraction with Fewell.
I wonder what Coughlin says to Judy when he gets home
The mental errors trouble me the most. I can understand players getting beat one on one in their assignments - goodness knows we've seen it plenty often! - but the number of mistakes leading to penalties, missed assignments and improper reads (e.g. lousy gap discipline) must make TC pull out what little hair he has left. Why is it so continually hard to prepare this team to understand and do their jobs properly?
Maybe the game really has passed Coughlin by, and the present day rules and players just don't work with his methods any more. I know he makes every effort to self-evaluate and adapt, but if the season plays out like this overture suggests then it's clearly time to turn the page.
No, they don't have any dominant players on the DL, like they did in his first stint. But, that is part of the reason I am not convinced he will have a huge improvement. He relies heavily on bog plays up front. That said, I think as a unit they are better than they are being given credit for. Hankins is turning into a very good DT. They have some decent guys to play next to him. Nobody is a stud, but on a rotation and fresh, they have guys who can make plays. On the outside, they have guys that can rush the passer, but are up and down against the run. Again, I hope a rotation of fresh guys helps here.
No, they don't have any dominant players on the DL, like they did in his first stint. But, that is part of the reason I am not convinced he will have a huge improvement. He relies heavily on bog plays up front. That said, I think as a unit they are better than they are being given credit for. Hankins is turning into a very good DT. They have some decent guys to play next to him. Nobody is a stud, but on a rotation and fresh, they have guys who can make plays. On the outside, they have guys that can rush the passer, but are up and down against the run. Again, I hope a rotation of fresh guys helps here.
But you need at least one game breaker even with the rotation guys (which is what JPP was supposed to be even before he blew his hand off but was underachieving at). Maybe O2 becomes that game breaker; he's got the talent and some of the run-stuffing game down but is very raw and probably not ready to assume that role as defensive star until season 2. All good defenses have one guy who wreaks havoc and we don't have that guy
1. Flowers is a stud. Still has to work on moving laterally on traps. But he will be decent this year and a top LT down the road.
2. OL overall looked decent. Eli had a reasonable amount of time. Giants kept running the ball on first down because that's what they are working on improving. In the real games, you will see more mixture and defenses won't be able to key on the run as they were tonight.
3. I could have completed that TD to OBJ. That was an horrendous throw by Eli. But 90% of the time that is a TD and suddenly the score doesn't look so bad. Jets were stacking the box and the Giants went to make them pay and Eli just missed it. Preseason for him, too. Nothing to be concerned about.
4. Kennard is a player. A real LB who likes to hit. Giants have not had one since Barrow.
5. Two guys we worried about all offseason--Schwartz and Taylor--are both playing and rounding into shape. To be honest, I expected nothing from either of them.
6. Vereen is going to make this offense much more dynamic. As the season progresses, I think we will see less and less of Hyno and more of a spread offense.
7. The defense will struggle to start the season but I think eventually you will see the young DL start to assert themselves. I have no doubt that they can have a hellacious pass rush down the line. The key will be stopping the run. That's why getting the LBers healthy is important.
Overall, the team has ben bad in preseason games but there have been a lot of positive individual performances from key players and that's what you should look for in preseason, especially when you are rebuilding and have a brand new DC and a second year OC.
Go find Sacco and relive history, it will be more fruitful than you spouting off your bullshit about this awful team.
They have a pretty decent rotation of 8 DL if they can ever get Kuhn out of there. There are no stars but a lot of decent players who could surprise people as a unit. their LBs are improved and deeper and they have a very good tandem of CBs. With Collins healthy I think they will have a very good S, just maybe not right away. They are very thin at S after him though, so FS and depth is a crap shoot. It was nice to see Taylor contribute tonight. Could he possible start?
No they don't. Most of the 8 guys you are hoping to see won't make most teams. Jenkins is shot, Kuhn is garbage, Moore is one dimensional and lacks any brain to play the position, Bromley is a soft non run stopping DT who has ONE move and it gets him turned around anytime the opposition runs the ball without its 4th stringers in, Wynn is a solid rotational guy, Owa has promise, Ayers is garbage...shall I go on? We had Osi, Stray and Tuck and then Osi, Tuck and JPP as our 3 DEs, this team???? Ayers, Jenkins, Moore, Owa...who the fuck cares, they are not even in the same conversation as those trios. Go watch 2007 and 2011 Super Bowls and playoffs, watch who we had then and compare it to what it's out there now and you will throw up. The cupboard is completely bare.
play in a real game, but there is little to hang your hat on regarding the D. It is a near certainty that the unit will suck horribly.
I hope to see at least a foundation for the future. Young guys who can be a core going foward. As it stands now this is a D filled with rookies, has-beens, never - was's and JAG's.
I think that the Giants D outside of what know looks to be a meaningless stretch during the abyss that was 2013, has sucked for years. It needed to be completely rebuilt and that is what is happening now. I figured that rebuild would center around JPP, who while maybe not as dominant as in 2011 was still a plus player. When he blew his hand off he left this team in a bad way.
Secondary is frightening how bad it looks on paper. Two solid corners, one who seems made of glass, then outside of one rookie with promise there is no one who would likely crack the squad of playoff caliber defense.
Finally there is Beason, guy is a coach killer, talented I guess and a veteran, but he is always hurt. When he got a boo boo on his knee during the Jags pre season game the team should have cut him. Perhaps that is hyperbole, but for a team in the Giants situation Beason is the absolute worst type of guy to have. D desperately needs a leader and signal caller for this new Spags D. How can they depend on Beason when he is always hurt. Give the job to a young guy to groom.
The hope lies with the O and while they have looked crappy overall this preseason, that TD drive last night looked good and I think it will be a productive unit.
All of us will know much more after weeks one and two. Safe bet though that the D will suck.
For 3 games now we can see exactly why not having JPP makes this defense worse. Despite many here thinking he is JAG you clearly see the effect on the pass and run. Teams now run at both sides of defense and right now no DL can beat anybody
him not there is also contributing to Hankins poor play thus far
Some here should wake up and see what is in front of them
This is a bad football team. They just lack in tallent. Spin it however you want, they are 1-7 against Philly and Dallas the past two seasons and record in decline since 2012. The staff can thank Odell, because if it wasn't for him it would have been even more ugly a year ago and they would have blown this thing up.
So now we are here getting our first taste of this team in 2015 and what do we see? I saw a team that didn't even look like they belonged on the football field against Cinci and the starters were flat out out-played by two bottom feeder teams a year ago.
It is the same problems year in. Defense can't cover the middle of the field, they can't contain to stop the run, they get pushed around up front, and don't pressure the QB. On offense we see the same. Though maybe a small improvement, still too many ineffective runs. Guys can't hold onto the ball on 3rd downs. Odell is the only one who separates and only one in entire offense defenses have to worry about. Shots downfield are either misfired or can't hold on with too many things needing to be perfect and usually end with Eli inbuckling his chin strap after throwing his arms up and trotting off the field.
Flowers looks better every snap
OO is lightning in a bottle.
Bromely flashed a few times.
Davis besides the penalty made a few special teams plays would think he put himself above washington.
Veeren looks to have a nice roll, imagine its even bigger in the playbook.
Randle didnt do much but looked a lot healthier then he did in Cincy
I feel this preseason has been one of the worst. rapidly depleting fan confidence along the way. Trying to stay positive. I have a feeling that this will not be a middle of the road season. Either this is a true depiction of how our season goes or we will be good and laugh about what a farce the preseason is.
But is we fall ass backwards into a win in Dallas its not hard to imagine getting to 3-0.
It almost seems as if Coughlin is suggesting Ayers faked it.
As for the last point...I think the offense will get it together and Spags is an excellent defensive coordinator. The problem is talent on the defense, especially in the front 7. Even when Beason is there we only have 3 reliable players in the front 7 (Hankins, Kennard, Beason) and no legit pass rushers.
Yes, we have to hope the offense gets it together.....Eli has to play lights out....we have no idea if/when Cruz comes back and is effective....I see OBj getting frustrated this year, with the attention he will get...outside of that one big game Donnell had last year, where he out leaped smaller defenders, what has he done? Will we ever see Randle? Can the rb's stay healthy? And then there is the OL....my god, every week, it's something else....let's face it, Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg, are solid when healthy....Have to keep your fingers crossed on Richburg's knee(s), that Pugh can play guard(he was schooled yesterday), and Flowers continues to improve(eventually teams will find his weakness and exploit it)....the right side is a mess, because you don't know who will show up.....this line can't get 5 guys out there together as a unit and get some consistency...
as for the defense, how in the world are Beason and Kennard considered reliable? This is Kennard's prove it season.....I think there is a Vegas line, if Beason makes it to the bye....as for Hankins, he is the only threat, and will be double teamed constantly.....Wynn will show why he wasn't drafted....Moore will never match the hype.....Ellis was let go for a reason and signed cheap...OO has to become an instant success....stick a fork in Jenkins....Ayers was a one trick pony, that may have lost his one trick...
This front 7 just doesn't have it....Everyone was excited by the Reese "moves" in the off season...what he got was bodies, rather than players....and the JPP situation, has compounded the situation, because the real moves could not be made with that 15M.....
Don't get me started on the safeties and linebackers....
I am hoping that they are looking to do more than bring in Brown. Brown was average at best before the injury. He was not exactly overwhelmed with offers in the free agency period and failed to make the Texans. Meriweather is over the hill and if he earns a spot on the team it says a hell of a lot about the lack of talent. Miles? Nothing but a backup. If this team is going to struggle all year, let's do it with youth and potential, not aging vets.
If the O-line needed anything it was time playing together as a unit. They didn't get it. Richburg and Schwartz missed critical time and it shows.
Newhouse and Jerry are below replacement level and they are starters or primary backups. Fail Reese.
Miles and Hosley are terrible and are starters or primary backups. Injuries have hit the DB's hard but it's still Fail Reese.
Kuhn is terrible and appears to be a part of the DT rotation for reasons no one can make head nor tails of. Fail Coughlin.
Victor Cruz needs time to find a rhythm and hasn't seen game action. It's going to be difficult for him to be a factor out of the gate and we need him to be.
Preston Parker is a JAG and is getting significant playing time. Fail Tom Coughlin.
There has been general sloppiness and mental errors across the roster. It's possible things can get turned around. We have about two weeks until Dallas. So far we've seen a lot more to worry about than to celebrate.
They have a pretty decent rotation of 8 DL if they can ever get Kuhn out of there. There are no stars but a lot of decent players who could surprise people as a unit. their LBs are improved and deeper and they have a very good tandem of CBs. With Collins healthy I think they will have a very good S, just maybe not right away. They are very thin at S after him though, so FS and depth is a crap shoot. It was nice to see Taylor contribute tonight. Could he possible start?
No they don't. Most of the 8 guys you are hoping to see won't make most teams. Jenkins is shot, Kuhn is garbage, Moore is one dimensional and lacks any brain to play the position, Bromley is a soft non run stopping DT who has ONE move and it gets him turned around anytime the opposition runs the ball without its 4th stringers in, Wynn is a solid rotational guy, Owa has promise, Ayers is garbage...shall I go on? We had Osi, Stray and Tuck and then Osi, Tuck and JPP as our 3 DEs, this team???? Ayers, Jenkins, Moore, Owa...who the fuck cares, they are not even in the same conversation as those trios. Go watch 2007 and 2011 Super Bowls and playoffs, watch who we had then and compare it to what it's out there now and you will throw up. The cupboard is completely bare.
Joey - Kuhn is not among my 8. On the others, I partly aree with you. I think some are OK in limited roles (Ayers, Jenkins) and some have the potential to be better than OK (Moore, Owa, Hankins). Overall, I think this unit can be OK with a true rotation. I do not expect anything like 2007 or 2011. This is why I do not expect a very good D. I think they have decent talent, with nothing earth shattering. But, Spags relies heavily on dominating play by the DL, which he won't get. This D should be better than last year (not saying much) but not by a huge margin.
Here are the DT's we have on the team currently aside from Hankins:
Kuhn
Jenkins-cooked
Bromley-can't beat the other team's second string
Staten- last seen turned around and going backwards against Jet's #3's
Hamilton-who?
Ellis-more a threat at the buffet table.
That's it. Ellis and Bromley should both get a swift kick in their considerable asses that neither one has played well enough to supplant Kuhn.
Here are the DT's we have on the team currently aside from Hankins:
Kuhn
Jenkins-cooked
Bromley-can't beat the other team's second string
Staten- last seen turned around and going backwards against Jet's #3's
Hamilton-who?
Ellis-more a threat at the buffet table.
That's it. Ellis and Bromley should both get a swift kick in their considerable asses that neither one has played well enough to supplant Kuhn.
I find it cuious that the opinions on Bromley are so varied. Some posted he made an immediate positve impact after entering the game. Some say he did nothing.
Played in only eight games last year - so he's basically a little better than a rookie re: game experience.
We knew when we drafted him and he has acknowledged that pass rushing is his strength and needs to get better at stopping the run. The point being, re: the run - he's a work in progress.
Additionally, we'll get a better sense of where he is once the regular season starts. he'll play alongside the same players, which is important - knowing how to play with other DL.
Far from an expert, but I would have liked to see more of him and Ellis, as opposed to Kuhn.
Bottom line, the jury's still out. He's a NYC kid who used to fight in the streets, a lot, and he's got the physical tools. Great work ethic and coachable Might be wrong, but I'm optimistic
especially at this juncture in his career. Pass rush rotational DT, with some leadership potential. Good locker room guy. That's what he is right now. To my mind, it's a toss up between him and Kuhn re: who to keep.
Robert Ayers Jr. declined to comment as he left the locker room.
2. OL overall looked decent. Eli had a reasonable amount of time. Giants kept running the ball on first down because that's what they are working on improving. In the real games, you will see more mixture and defenses won't be able to key on the run as they were tonight.
3. I could have completed that TD to OBJ. That was an horrendous throw by Eli. But 90% of the time that is a TD and suddenly the score doesn't look so bad. Jets were stacking the box and the Giants went to make them pay and Eli just missed it. Preseason for him, too. Nothing to be concerned about.
4. Kennard is a player. A real LB who likes to hit. Giants have not had one since Barrow.
5. Two guys we worried about all offseason--Schwartz and Taylor--are both playing and rounding into shape. To be honest, I expected nothing from either of them.
6. Vereen is going to make this offense much more dynamic. As the season progresses, I think we will see less and less of Hyno and more of a spread offense.
7. The defense will struggle to start the season but I think eventually you will see the young DL start to assert themselves. I have no doubt that they can have a hellacious pass rush down the line. The key will be stopping the run. That's why getting the LBers healthy is important.
Overall, the team has ben bad in preseason games but there have been a lot of positive individual performances from key players and that's what you should look for in preseason, especially when you are rebuilding and have a brand new DC and a second year OC.
Donnelly looked good at RT.
this team looks like 1978 all over again
Two plays were the difference in the game.....pick six and a punt return. Perhaps we give the special teams some slack as there are guys playing there that won't be around come opening day.
Good to see OBJ getting free and making some catches, Eli will hit him come regular season.
No updates on Robert Ayers or Bobby Hart. Ayers did not want to comment after the game, but he did not appear limited by injury in any way.
Two plays were the difference in the game.....pick six and a punt return. Perhaps we give the special teams some slack as there are guys playing there that won't be around come opening day.
Good to see OBJ getting free and making some catches, Eli will hit him come regular season.
Despite what some claim ST hasn't been great IMO. Too often this preseason I watched returners catch Brown's kicks deep in their end zone but somehow managed to get a return of 25+ yards. That shouldn't happen with good coverage. Returners have been making tacklers miss quite a bit on their first attempts.
2. As Schwartz goes, so goes the offensive line. This is a scary thought because Schwartz is never healthy, but when he's in there the line is stable because we can run to the right and Eli gets a cleaner pocket. I think the Giants are getting him in for about 15-20 reps each game just to get his game conditioning back and then he'll be ready to start at right guard week 1. He's a guard, not a tackle and needs to play at guard.
3. Pugh had an off night. Now I know he was going up against Wilkerson who is one of the best but he'll see Wilkerson again along with Suh in Miami and Gerald McCoy down in Tampa, so he'll need to up his game a little bit.
4. Jerome Cunningham is not just better than Robinson, he might be better than Donnell. He's making rapid strides and eventually could be a complete TE. I think McAdoo likes Donnell more because of his receiving abilities but Cunningham has similar athleticism and is a far better blocker, which we'll need with one of the tackle positions (RT) unsteady.
5. Flowers is a franchise LT for the next decade, barring injury. He just stuffed whoever he was facing and is a monster in the run game. Once Beatty returns he has to go to RT.
6. The defensive line is a sieve, but it's not Spags' fault. They have ZERO pass rush and it will take the entire season to produce a pass rusher out of this group (probably O2). Wynn is average, Moore isn't developing and I'm not sure it's really a good pass rush even with Ayers there. Ellis needs to play next to Hankins to at least ensure that the middle is stout, and he has to cut out the stupidity (that late hit flag was awful. They're always going to nail the phat-boy defensive tackle who piles on after the play). They need 4-finger JPP back in the worst way.
7. Without Beason, the LBs are average. Kennard + Beason is passable, but Kennard without Beason is almost by himself in the LB corps. I'm still not convinced we have a weakside LB. The jury is still out on JT Thomas. Uaga showed why he is a practice squad player (not enough strength to take on big RBs and not enough speed to keep up with fast RBs).
8. DRC and Prince are good, but they'll look bad without any safeties, and there's little Spags can do about it other than coach them up and hope for the best. Collins will be good but he's still a rookie and learning the game. Meriweather is the second best safety on the roster, which is scary in of itself. Maybe Cooper Taylor wins a spot but he can't play FS, which means Collins would have to play FS, and I think Collins is a better SS. As for Week 1, Jason Witten is probably a good pick in daily fantasy sports because of our safety situation.
9. Coughlin wasn't kidding about Weatherford. His job is actually on the line. He might be OK though because one of Malone's punts was returned for a TD.
10. For a backup C, Reynolds didn't do terribly against one of the best defensive fronts in the league, but Richburg is still clearly better. I think Reynolds made the team tonight just due to that.
Even Steve Jobs got fired when he needed to get his head out of his ass at Apple. He came back after he found himself.
I could be wrong but I don't see this talent on the team winning more than 5 games (Skins (2), Jets, 49ers and bucs or bills).
2) Why are they not starting Schwartz? It can't be to limit snaps, because he played a lot of snaps last week.
3) I may be nuts myself, but I'm still not extremely worried. It's preseason. But, I have sad all along not to expect miracles on D because Spags isn't the genius many (most?) think he is.
2) Why are they not starting Schwartz? It can't be to limit snaps, because he played a lot of snaps last week.
3) I may be nuts myself, but I'm still not extremely worried. It's preseason. But, I have sad all along not to expect miracles on D because Spags isn't the genius many (most?) think he is.
Agreed on the first point. They seriously can't start Kuhn against Travis Frederick and Zack Martin Week 1....if that happens they'll open up holes you or I could run through
As for the second point, they might want to limit his reps in the preseason due to the ankle surgery and are slowly getting him in game shape for Week 1. When healthy he has to start at right guard
As for the last point...I think the offense will get it together and Spags is an excellent defensive coordinator. The problem is talent on the defense, especially in the front 7. Even when Beason is there we only have 3 reliable players in the front 7 (Hankins, Kennard, Beason) and no legit pass rushers. They need JPP back in the worst way and hopefully a still functional JPP, otherwise QBs will be able to do their taxes and read War and Peace back there
I don't see any upside for this defense. Can't rush the passer, can't stop the run, and the middle of the field will again be wide open.
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When Schwartz was finally in at RG, the Giants had their best drive of the preseason. Need to figure out what to do at RT. Newhouse is a mess. Need to scour the wire for a LG or RT.
Pugh has look better at tackle than he has at guard. Did the coaching staff ever consider moving Pugh back to RT when Beatty got hurt or even letting Flowers go at RT and letting Pugh play the position that he played in college at LT.
When Beatty went down, I thought the Giants should have inserted Pugh at LT and moved Flowers to RT. Yeah, I know, LG would be an issue, but Flowers would be dominant at RT and Pugh would be comparable to Flowers at LT.
Even Steve Jobs got fired when he needed to get his head out of his ass at Apple. He came back after he found himself.
I could be wrong but I don't see this talent on the team winning more than 5 games (Skins (2), Jets, 49ers and bucs or bills).
You are aware that they lost their best player (JPP) to a fireworks accident and they've lost 4 safeties for the season, correct? And this is Reese's fault how?
Why can't it be exactly what it appears to be: Flowers is holding his own and probably the better fit right now.
2008...no Strahan (retired), no Osi (injured) and the Giants were near the top of the league in defense
Even in 2007, with the dominant DL, the best linebackers were Pierce (good but not great) and Mitchell (average)
Webster and Ross were a work in progress almost the entire season at corner; Webster almost lost his job before having a great playoff run, especially in his matchup against TO. We were fortunate to have Madison and McQuarters as reliable veteran cover at corner. Gibril Wilson and James Butler were the safeties (not exactly Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor)
In New Orleans he had nothing to work with
No gamebreakers on the DL like Spags had in his first stint here. The only player on the line that compares to his 2007 or even 2008 counterpart is Hankins (vs. Robbins or Cofield). Pass rush is the name of the game on defense in today's NFL, even more than run-stuffing. If we start Ellis next to Hankins we'll have some of the run-stuffing part figured out, but the pass rush is still toothless
The mental errors trouble me the most. I can understand players getting beat one on one in their assignments - goodness knows we've seen it plenty often! - but the number of mistakes leading to penalties, missed assignments and improper reads (e.g. lousy gap discipline) must make TC pull out what little hair he has left. Why is it so continually hard to prepare this team to understand and do their jobs properly?
Maybe the game really has passed Coughlin by, and the present day rules and players just don't work with his methods any more. I know he makes every effort to self-evaluate and adapt, but if the season plays out like this overture suggests then it's clearly time to turn the page.
Of course I thought the same thing in 2011...
But you need at least one game breaker even with the rotation guys (which is what JPP was supposed to be even before he blew his hand off but was underachieving at). Maybe O2 becomes that game breaker; he's got the talent and some of the run-stuffing game down but is very raw and probably not ready to assume that role as defensive star until season 2. All good defenses have one guy who wreaks havoc and we don't have that guy
2. OL overall looked decent. Eli had a reasonable amount of time. Giants kept running the ball on first down because that's what they are working on improving. In the real games, you will see more mixture and defenses won't be able to key on the run as they were tonight.
3. I could have completed that TD to OBJ. That was an horrendous throw by Eli. But 90% of the time that is a TD and suddenly the score doesn't look so bad. Jets were stacking the box and the Giants went to make them pay and Eli just missed it. Preseason for him, too. Nothing to be concerned about.
4. Kennard is a player. A real LB who likes to hit. Giants have not had one since Barrow.
5. Two guys we worried about all offseason--Schwartz and Taylor--are both playing and rounding into shape. To be honest, I expected nothing from either of them.
6. Vereen is going to make this offense much more dynamic. As the season progresses, I think we will see less and less of Hyno and more of a spread offense.
7. The defense will struggle to start the season but I think eventually you will see the young DL start to assert themselves. I have no doubt that they can have a hellacious pass rush down the line. The key will be stopping the run. That's why getting the LBers healthy is important.
Overall, the team has ben bad in preseason games but there have been a lot of positive individual performances from key players and that's what you should look for in preseason, especially when you are rebuilding and have a brand new DC and a second year OC.
I hope to see at least a foundation for the future. Young guys who can be a core going foward. As it stands now this is a D filled with rookies, has-beens, never - was's and JAG's.
I think that the Giants D outside of what know looks to be a meaningless stretch during the abyss that was 2013, has sucked for years. It needed to be completely rebuilt and that is what is happening now. I figured that rebuild would center around JPP, who while maybe not as dominant as in 2011 was still a plus player. When he blew his hand off he left this team in a bad way.
Secondary is frightening how bad it looks on paper. Two solid corners, one who seems made of glass, then outside of one rookie with promise there is no one who would likely crack the squad of playoff caliber defense.
Finally there is Beason, guy is a coach killer, talented I guess and a veteran, but he is always hurt. When he got a boo boo on his knee during the Jags pre season game the team should have cut him. Perhaps that is hyperbole, but for a team in the Giants situation Beason is the absolute worst type of guy to have. D desperately needs a leader and signal caller for this new Spags D. How can they depend on Beason when he is always hurt. Give the job to a young guy to groom.
The hope lies with the O and while they have looked crappy overall this preseason, that TD drive last night looked good and I think it will be a productive unit.
All of us will know much more after weeks one and two. Safe bet though that the D will suck.
him not there is also contributing to Hankins poor play thus far
So now we are here getting our first taste of this team in 2015 and what do we see? I saw a team that didn't even look like they belonged on the football field against Cinci and the starters were flat out out-played by two bottom feeder teams a year ago.
It is the same problems year in. Defense can't cover the middle of the field, they can't contain to stop the run, they get pushed around up front, and don't pressure the QB. On offense we see the same. Though maybe a small improvement, still too many ineffective runs. Guys can't hold onto the ball on 3rd downs. Odell is the only one who separates and only one in entire offense defenses have to worry about. Shots downfield are either misfired or can't hold on with too many things needing to be perfect and usually end with Eli inbuckling his chin strap after throwing his arms up and trotting off the field.
Flowers looks better every snap
OO is lightning in a bottle.
Bromely flashed a few times.
Davis besides the penalty made a few special teams plays would think he put himself above washington.
Veeren looks to have a nice roll, imagine its even bigger in the playbook.
Randle didnt do much but looked a lot healthier then he did in Cincy
I feel this preseason has been one of the worst. rapidly depleting fan confidence along the way. Trying to stay positive. I have a feeling that this will not be a middle of the road season. Either this is a true depiction of how our season goes or we will be good and laugh about what a farce the preseason is.
But is we fall ass backwards into a win in Dallas its not hard to imagine getting to 3-0.
I thought the same. I wouldn't put it past these players.
Yes, we have to hope the offense gets it together.....Eli has to play lights out....we have no idea if/when Cruz comes back and is effective....I see OBj getting frustrated this year, with the attention he will get...outside of that one big game Donnell had last year, where he out leaped smaller defenders, what has he done? Will we ever see Randle? Can the rb's stay healthy? And then there is the OL....my god, every week, it's something else....let's face it, Flowers, Pugh, and Richburg, are solid when healthy....Have to keep your fingers crossed on Richburg's knee(s), that Pugh can play guard(he was schooled yesterday), and Flowers continues to improve(eventually teams will find his weakness and exploit it)....the right side is a mess, because you don't know who will show up.....this line can't get 5 guys out there together as a unit and get some consistency...
as for the defense, how in the world are Beason and Kennard considered reliable? This is Kennard's prove it season.....I think there is a Vegas line, if Beason makes it to the bye....as for Hankins, he is the only threat, and will be double teamed constantly.....Wynn will show why he wasn't drafted....Moore will never match the hype.....Ellis was let go for a reason and signed cheap...OO has to become an instant success....stick a fork in Jenkins....Ayers was a one trick pony, that may have lost his one trick...
This front 7 just doesn't have it....Everyone was excited by the Reese "moves" in the off season...what he got was bodies, rather than players....and the JPP situation, has compounded the situation, because the real moves could not be made with that 15M.....
Don't get me started on the safeties and linebackers....
Newhouse and Jerry are below replacement level and they are starters or primary backups. Fail Reese.
Miles and Hosley are terrible and are starters or primary backups. Injuries have hit the DB's hard but it's still Fail Reese.
Kuhn is terrible and appears to be a part of the DT rotation for reasons no one can make head nor tails of. Fail Coughlin.
Victor Cruz needs time to find a rhythm and hasn't seen game action. It's going to be difficult for him to be a factor out of the gate and we need him to be.
Preston Parker is a JAG and is getting significant playing time. Fail Tom Coughlin.
There has been general sloppiness and mental errors across the roster. It's possible things can get turned around. We have about two weeks until Dallas. So far we've seen a lot more to worry about than to celebrate.
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They have a pretty decent rotation of 8 DL if they can ever get Kuhn out of there. There are no stars but a lot of decent players who could surprise people as a unit. their LBs are improved and deeper and they have a very good tandem of CBs. With Collins healthy I think they will have a very good S, just maybe not right away. They are very thin at S after him though, so FS and depth is a crap shoot. It was nice to see Taylor contribute tonight. Could he possible start?
No they don't. Most of the 8 guys you are hoping to see won't make most teams. Jenkins is shot, Kuhn is garbage, Moore is one dimensional and lacks any brain to play the position, Bromley is a soft non run stopping DT who has ONE move and it gets him turned around anytime the opposition runs the ball without its 4th stringers in, Wynn is a solid rotational guy, Owa has promise, Ayers is garbage...shall I go on? We had Osi, Stray and Tuck and then Osi, Tuck and JPP as our 3 DEs, this team???? Ayers, Jenkins, Moore, Owa...who the fuck cares, they are not even in the same conversation as those trios. Go watch 2007 and 2011 Super Bowls and playoffs, watch who we had then and compare it to what it's out there now and you will throw up. The cupboard is completely bare.
Here are the DT's we have on the team currently aside from Hankins:
Kuhn
Jenkins-cooked
Bromley-can't beat the other team's second string
Staten- last seen turned around and going backwards against Jet's #3's
Hamilton-who?
Ellis-more a threat at the buffet table.
That's it. Ellis and Bromley should both get a swift kick in their considerable asses that neither one has played well enough to supplant Kuhn.
Here are the DT's we have on the team currently aside from Hankins:
Kuhn
Jenkins-cooked
Bromley-can't beat the other team's second string
Staten- last seen turned around and going backwards against Jet's #3's
Hamilton-who?
Ellis-more a threat at the buffet table.
That's it. Ellis and Bromley should both get a swift kick in their considerable asses that neither one has played well enough to supplant Kuhn.
I find it cuious that the opinions on Bromley are so varied. Some posted he made an immediate positve impact after entering the game. Some say he did nothing.
We knew when we drafted him and he has acknowledged that pass rushing is his strength and needs to get better at stopping the run. The point being, re: the run - he's a work in progress.
Additionally, we'll get a better sense of where he is once the regular season starts. he'll play alongside the same players, which is important - knowing how to play with other DL.
Far from an expert, but I would have liked to see more of him and Ellis, as opposed to Kuhn.
Bottom line, the jury's still out. He's a NYC kid who used to fight in the streets, a lot, and he's got the physical tools. Great work ethic and coachable Might be wrong, but I'm optimistic