...one that has been undermined by bad luck, bad injuries, bad Drafts and bad personnel decisions, I cannot see in the grand scale/scheme of things why management would ever re-sign Eli Manning and absorb so much future cap space.
True, the organization needs Eli to ensure fans actually show up at the stadium, but re-upping Eli is not in the best long-term interests of this sputtering franchise.
The question in my mind: Can Eli be traded and what could we get for him? This team -- already near the bottom of the NFL -- needs to get to the VERY bottom to secure premium draft picks combined with tons of free cap room.
Eli can't run the ball for the Giants and he can't play defense. Mara needs to hit the refresh button with this roster and that begins by pulling the plug on -- quite arguably -- the greatest QB in Giants history!
It would be very painful, indeed... but still better IMO than the last 3 seasons (and the one yet to unfold in two weeks.)
As for the coaches, I don't believe for a moment that these past few years of ineptitude can be laid on them. Still, when a team needs to start over, that usually means an entirely new staff.
As for Jerry Reese, there is only one course of action in the above draconian scenario. First... force him to do all the dirty work firings, and then if he hasn't already tendered his resignation, then make him the very last firing.
The biggest problem for this team isn't not having cap space or having it. It's talent evaluation (followed by injuries). Getting rid of Eli isn't going to fix that.
Eli can't run the ball for the Giants and he can't play defense. Mara needs to hit the refresh button with this roster and that begins by pulling the plug on -- quite arguably -- the greatest QB in Giants history!
How do we know this? Have we ever tried handing off to Eli? Have you ever tried Eli in the secondary? He might be the solution to all our problems at safety!
...I wish I could just think like you and leave it at that.
And I know for certain that very little stock can be put in pre-season games, but when these pre-season games are mirror images of the past 3 seasons -- with no confidence or the talent to make a difference at the LOS -- well, then, I just can't seem to get to a place that you are more or less happily occupying.
Time will tell.
But I do believe your logic is flawed in regards to the QB. The days of Jeff Hostetler & Trent Dilfer are long gone. If you don’t have a franchise QB or an upcoming one like Seattle you will not win in this league. Seattle has been very fortunate in their situation with payroll until now but had to pay the guy big time.
If you look at the league as it is now the teams who are at the bottom have no franchise QB. I like Nassib but he’s not Eli and Eli had I believe his 2nd best season statistically last year. Injuries suck and that’s what has hurt this team the past few years not the money we have been paying Eli.
I’m not a fan of JR, he hasn’t had a great draft IMO since 2007 some not his fault but none the less he owns it. We have relied too much on FA with his tenure here and that’s a problem.
Transaltion -- a roster with a signficant talent deficiency that can never be fixed with a great QB absorbing so much cap space.
Respectfully, i don't agree with that. When you draft as poorly as the Giants you're going to have issues and no team has ever made up poor drafts by loading up in free agency. The dream team, Skins, etc have all tried and failed. IMO, the Giants are still playing catch up with drafting better.
It is time to replace those guys with people who can.
Based on the league I watch, it would be much harder to replace a franchise QB, perhaps the rarest commodity in sports, than a GM .
I'm referring to later on toward the end or the end of the season.
Not now.
In the meantime, I guess we can always hope that the past 3 years and miserable continuation of same this pre-season will radically change in 2015.
Here's hoping for the best!
trade deadline is November 3.
after the season the Giants would have to first franchise Eli (and I believe he has to sign the FT) to trade him. I believe this limits the trade potential not helps it.
Eli has probably 6 years left in this league that is an eternity. If he truly is the Giants greatest quarterback you don t build by trading him unless you have the next franchise QB on the roster.
I couldn't t disagree more with the OP
Eli has probably 6 years left in this league that is an eternity. If he truly is the Giants greatest quarterback you don t build by trading him unless you have the next franchise QB on the roster.
I couldn't t disagree more with the OP
joe just M.S. being M.S...he prob posted same blather pre 2007 and 2011..
On defense:
DL - Selvie, Ayers, Ellis. All upgrades. Not All Pros, but upgrades. JPP and Damontre Moore are key. What will they bring to the table? Who knows. Hankins can play. Bromley is having a great pre-season (but it's pre-season).
LB - The talent is better this year than last. And Kennard looks like the real deal, a playmaker LB. The LB talent is much better than it was three years ago.
CB - DRC. If he stays healthy, Prince/DRC, that's a nice starting CB combo. Shaky behind those two, but not terrible. Prince and DRC have Pro Bowl level talent.
Safety - OK. What a mess. But it looks like a great trade-up to nab Collins.
Specials - Dwayne Harris and other signings directly targeting specials. There is far more talent on specials this year than last.
This team ought to be able to get in the 8-8 range, with the key risks (IMO) being DL and Safety. Will the defense gel? If it does, this team has a real shot at the playoffs, wild-card style.
I think the Grantland piece explains it and puts some of it in perspective, from just the past two seasons.
three victories over teams with winning records in two years and two of those victories against Colt McCoy and Scott Tolzien led teams it highlights a team that is only beating bad teams - when it wins.
there are tons of issues with this team.
Before training camp, I felt this is a "test season" for the Giants rebuilding. I had several questions that need to be answered this season.
Will the 3 high drafts of the last few years find their place on the offensive line and be quality starters? (I was assuming Beaty to be the 4th)
Will they be able to find 3 quality starters at linebacker?
Will they have at least one real good safety? This all falls on Collins. Can they come up with a decent nickel back?
Will Victor Cruz be his old self for 2016? Or can someone like Cory Washington move in?
Is JPP back or was the end of last season a fluke? Should they give him a long term contract after the season?
These are questions that will take most of the season to answer. If all these questions are answered positive, I think they can be a playoff team in 2016. Of course, they'll also need another safety, OL and running back, which could be found in the draft or free agency. Filling 3 or 4 holes is not much for 1 off season. Right now, it's not looking too good for 2016, but there's still plenty of time to answer my questions.
If the answers to most of my questions is negative, then a complete rebuilding will be needed which could include Manning because of his age.
No it won't. He'll only come when there is undeniable talent, then get "sick" at the 1st sign of trouble.
I see some young players I think we can re-build around. I just wish I saw a few more if them!
We still have players in place on this team that can be good moving forward
We need to score some playmakers on d though and if we have that much cash moving forward I would not blow it up
the problem is being able to land the right guys in free agency
This d would be way better off had we landed McCourty and had a gotten buster skrine
Then your looking at
Prince drc skrine
McCourty Landon Collins
Which if that happened this defense is looking WAYYY better this preseason
My point is with Eli in place and one big FA class and a solid draft I truly believe they can still win moving forward, which is why I don't get rid of Eli
Adding a few playmakers (a stud on d and someone on O) in addition to growth from young guys and our regular guys , I believe there is a core of players
Eli beckham Cruz vereen Williams Flowers richburg pugh? Hankins kennard Owa DRC Collins
...I agree with everything you say, with one big caveat.
Eli had a great season last year and the Giants were one of the worst football teams in the NFL.
Transaltion -- a roster with a signficant talent deficiency that can never be fixed with a great QB absorbing so much cap space.
Simply put there is one player on the team who is the reason we can win games and he is worth what they will pay him for a multitude of reasons. We know exactly what the qb can do if given a roster to compete on his level and the issue is not what he gets paid but rather who gets paid to play with him and not blow their hands off or have career ending injuries in their first year. I mean just think about how many injuries this team has had and marvel at the fact that through all of it, we haven't had to be terrified of who is coming off the bench because the quarterback got hurt (knock on wood, fingers crossed etc etc etc).
Think about it this way....
If we got rid of Eli Manning in order to have space with which we could sign every free agent on earth, we would find ourselves saying "well we signed some nice talent but we don't have a qb so what's the point? If only we had a guy like Eli Manning we could compete and contend"
Again, Eli is the franchise and that's a good thing. After he is gone we all will be horrified at who we may have to watch replace him. We will have to sit there and wonder when and if we'll find another guy who can even come close to being as qualified and healthy. Look at all these other teams having to sift through flash in the pan free agents and disappointing draft picks that either get hurt often or have one good year before crashing back down to earth or being busts altogether. Hell take a look at the Jets who would be a contender if they had our qb. Eli Mannings don't grow on trees, that's why we never had anyone as good before him and may not have one after him for a tragically long time
What the hell is wrong with some of you??? To even entertain the notion of letting Eli walk for nothing let alone letting him go period is fucking insane. Just stop posting this crap. Please. Stop.
Teams can suck all year and get hot second half. Teams can certainly suck in August and end up playing good regular season football. The injuries are annoying but the entire team isn't hurt and not one household name is hurt. Get a fucking grip and stop with the same regurgitated negativity day in day out around here. If you're scared of investing any hope than just save it. We get it.
This place sucks this summer. Just horrible. I'm not expecting or asking for sunny skies and happy days posts but my god every fucking post is laced with negativity. It's not even September for fucks sake.
a) Giants finish 3-13 and have a shot at the "next great QB"
b) Eli sustains a serious injury.
But how about we let things unfold first before packing up the lockers and calling the season a failure before its even cold outside.
Where were many of you in the summer of 2011? Killing the team I'm sure.
a) Giants finish 3-13 and have a shot at the "next great QB"
b) Eli sustains a serious injury.
+1 and both scenarios are possible. After seeing Carson Palmer go down moments after signing a new contract I don't see what the hurry is in resigning Eli. The Giants could still sign him late in the season or right after the season ends.
We all know how hard it is to get a franchise QB, but there are plenty of examples of holding on to one too long.
I'm fine with the Giants re-signing Eli to finish his career in blue, but if they don't I'm not going to get all emotional and weepy about it like some of you are.
in these 35 - 40 year old seasons are when perfectly healthy QB's who enjoyed productive and durable careers tend to not be so healthy, arm strength starts to wane, mobility lessens, and it snowballs from there.
is it guaranteed to happen? No of course not, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady all examples of QB's who were recently productive late in their careers, but it happens enough to consider re-signing him more than a no-brainer.
Well, I'll tell you what. I think the odds are greater that the Giants actually play a game this year in which they do not stop one single drive all game long - as in forcing zero punts the entire game - than the Giants winning a SB. In fact, I think the odds are better that the Giants have MULTIPLE games in which they don't force a single punt - than the odds of the Giants winning a SB.
So, let's all close our eyes and pretend. After all, I guess some fans do that. Pretend. I don't know why they do that, but apparently they do. And who am I to spoil their fun? So, Rah Rah Rah, I'm so fucking PUMPED!!! The Giants are going to compete for the SB! Let's go Giants!
You guys make Morrissey look like the happiest man alive.
No point. I'm just soooooooooo excited that my favorite football team is so obviously OVERFLOWING with talent and so fucking good that they are going to legitimately compete for the SB this year! LET'S GO GIANTS!
I do think it's ok to acknowledge what you as a fan perceive to be the teams shortcomings and how you expect those shortcomings to impact the season, but usually most fans do so with at least a hint of hope or optimism. Not suggesting blind hope, but basing opinions like some have about the outcome of the season solely based on the pre-season is probably crossing a line beyond what I'm talking about.
I thought at the end of last year that the Giants' defense might be the worst defense the organization has put on the field in over 50 years. I think it's going to be worse - much worse - this year. Historically bad. As in so bad that opponents might be forced to legitimately wonder if it might be wise to make the strategic decision not to bother dressing their punter.
But, hey, all I hear on BBI is how it is just WRONG to be saying such things. After all, not a single game has been played, right? So how DARE anyone be critical of the team's talent level and chances at a SB before the first game has even been played! As though being a fan means you are obligated to suspend your intelligence and leave your brain at the door and pretend your team is good because ... well, I don't know why ... I suppose because a bunch of BBI people say so.
So, I'm playing along. LET'S GO GIANTS!
All I heard from you last night was attacking every single poster who had a negative thing to say about the team. So, yea, RAH RAH RAH is what I get the sense you require from everyone around here. Leave your brains at the door and just cheer for your team. RAH RAH RAH.
What pure fucking bullshit that is.
There is no direct connection between the two.....just like any other season, you will know what kind of Giant team you have by the bye, and maybe even sooner....
It's why they play the games....Been waiting all year for this season...we have no idea of what kind of team we have, because we have not seen the starters out there and there have been too many injuries....
AT best, I thought this was another TC team, 8-8, +/-1.....I felt that next year would be the season the Giants make their move....but what is disturbing is the lack of building blocks on this team for next year....and I seriously doubt we draft 7 starters, and acquire 4 or more starting free agents next year.....the only block we have added this year is Flowers....this team will pay for the ineptitude of this front office for years to come....we are in, dare I say, a constant rebuild for the next several years....
I think that has already begun. Unlike most here I see the Giants improving as season progresses and having a shot to be meaningful in Dec.
Typing in phone makes it difficult to share all reasons why I have optimism. But I will share biggest reason. I think this offensive line is talented and is going to come together. If that occurs Giants could have an offense that all keep them in many games
Also, I believe in Spags.
All you need to do is look at teams like the Jets, Browns and even the Bengals. They have a very good defense, solid running game, an excellent WR and an average QB. That avg QB is probably the reason why they can make it to the playoffs but cannot make a serious run. It is extremely rare to have a guy like Dilfer win the SB.