...one that has been undermined by bad luck, bad injuries, bad Drafts and bad personnel decisions, I cannot see in the grand scale/scheme of things why management would ever re-sign Eli Manning and absorb so much future cap space.
True, the organization needs Eli to ensure fans actually show up at the stadium, but re-upping Eli is not in the best long-term interests of this sputtering franchise.
The question in my mind: Can Eli be traded and what could we get for him? This team -- already near the bottom of the NFL -- needs to get to the VERY bottom to secure premium draft picks combined with tons of free cap room.
Eli can't run the ball for the Giants and he can't play defense. Mara needs to hit the refresh button with this roster and that begins by pulling the plug on -- quite arguably -- the greatest QB in Giants history!
It would be very painful, indeed... but still better IMO than the last 3 seasons (and the one yet to unfold in two weeks.)
As for the coaches, I don't believe for a moment that these past few years of ineptitude can be laid on them. Still, when a team needs to start over, that usually means an entirely new staff.
As for Jerry Reese, there is only one course of action in the above draconian scenario. First... force him to do all the dirty work firings, and then if he hasn't already tendered his resignation, then make him the very last firing.
How about we let the season play out before we blow things up?
"Fucking December" has already happened.
For the past 3 years!
"Fucking December" has already happened.
For the past 3 years!
Agreed M.S. I was onboard for house cleaning then, but we signed Spagnolo instead. But now it's August and the season is only 10 days away. You got to go to war with the team you got.
I'm referring to later on toward the end or the end of the season.
Not now.
In the meantime, I guess we can always hope that the past 3 years and miserable continuation of same this pre-season will radically change in 2015.
Here's hoping for the best!
The Giants play for years has not been Eli's fault and he likely has years left so this isn't an easy decision.
Besides the practical matter of alienating the Giants' fan base (and taking a significant financial hit), I just don't think John Mara has the heart to blow the whole thing up.
Frankly, I believe he is way too good, decent and loyal a person to do that!
Perhpas the best scenario that could unfold -- Giants management and Eli come to an understanding that there is just so much cap room that our star QB can take up in the context of a team that requires a significant infusion of talent.
Short of that, I just don't know...
Besides the practical matter of alienating the Giants' fan base (and taking a significant financial hit), I just don't think John Mara has the heart to blow the whole thing up.
Frankly, I believe he is way too good, decent and loyal a person to do that!
Perhpas the best scenario that could unfold -- Giants management and Eli come to an understanding that there is just so much cap room that our star QB can take up in the context of a team that requires a significant infusion of talent.
Short of that, I just don't know...
just feels like giants are on a mediocre to bad road to nowhere.
Point is he is the guy you give the money to. Then you decide who else to get rid of or replace and who to surround him with. It seems to pain people to realize that Eli is the Giants and will be here until he can't play anymore.
...I agree with everything you say, with one big caveat.
Eli had a great season last year and the Giants were one of the worst football teams in the NFL.
Transaltion -- a roster with a signficant talent deficiency that can never be fixed with a great QB absorbing so much cap space.
Granted this team need help and a little luck but to have the mindset it’s done before it starts is nut’s.. If I recall in 2011 we were 7-7 with 2 games left and I am willing to bet there were a few posts on here saying we can’t even get a good draft pick out of this season. Well how did that turn out? Anything can happen and it’s way too early for a post like this. I do believe there is a reason why the Giants have not locked up Eli to date and are willing to let the season play out to pull the trigger for him long term. If this season does happen to not end well for us I do believe the entire team will be blown-up including Staff, GM and players but that's my opinion.
I personally still have hope for the season and look forward to it.
Go Blue
A year like 2009, which featured one of the very worst defenses in Giant history, saw something like the second highest percentage of cap in the NFL that year spent on it.
Reese is giving out multi-year contracts to scrubs w
The biggest problem for this team isn't not having cap space or having it. It's talent evaluation (followed by injuries). Getting rid of Eli isn't going to fix that.
Eli can't run the ball for the Giants and he can't play defense. Mara needs to hit the refresh button with this roster and that begins by pulling the plug on -- quite arguably -- the greatest QB in Giants history!
How do we know this? Have we ever tried handing off to Eli? Have you ever tried Eli in the secondary? He might be the solution to all our problems at safety!
...I wish I could just think like you and leave it at that.
And I know for certain that very little stock can be put in pre-season games, but when these pre-season games are mirror images of the past 3 seasons -- with no confidence or the talent to make a difference at the LOS -- well, then, I just can't seem to get to a place that you are more or less happily occupying.
Time will tell.
But I do believe your logic is flawed in regards to the QB. The days of Jeff Hostetler & Trent Dilfer are long gone. If you don’t have a franchise QB or an upcoming one like Seattle you will not win in this league. Seattle has been very fortunate in their situation with payroll until now but had to pay the guy big time.
If you look at the league as it is now the teams who are at the bottom have no franchise QB. I like Nassib but he’s not Eli and Eli had I believe his 2nd best season statistically last year. Injuries suck and that’s what has hurt this team the past few years not the money we have been paying Eli.
I’m not a fan of JR, he hasn’t had a great draft IMO since 2007 some not his fault but none the less he owns it. We have relied too much on FA with his tenure here and that’s a problem.
Transaltion -- a roster with a signficant talent deficiency that can never be fixed with a great QB absorbing so much cap space.
Respectfully, i don't agree with that. When you draft as poorly as the Giants you're going to have issues and no team has ever made up poor drafts by loading up in free agency. The dream team, Skins, etc have all tried and failed. IMO, the Giants are still playing catch up with drafting better.
It is time to replace those guys with people who can.
Based on the league I watch, it would be much harder to replace a franchise QB, perhaps the rarest commodity in sports, than a GM .
I'm referring to later on toward the end or the end of the season.
Not now.
In the meantime, I guess we can always hope that the past 3 years and miserable continuation of same this pre-season will radically change in 2015.
Here's hoping for the best!
trade deadline is November 3.
after the season the Giants would have to first franchise Eli (and I believe he has to sign the FT) to trade him. I believe this limits the trade potential not helps it.
Eli has probably 6 years left in this league that is an eternity. If he truly is the Giants greatest quarterback you don t build by trading him unless you have the next franchise QB on the roster.
I couldn't t disagree more with the OP
Eli has probably 6 years left in this league that is an eternity. If he truly is the Giants greatest quarterback you don t build by trading him unless you have the next franchise QB on the roster.
I couldn't t disagree more with the OP
joe just M.S. being M.S...he prob posted same blather pre 2007 and 2011..
On defense:
DL - Selvie, Ayers, Ellis. All upgrades. Not All Pros, but upgrades. JPP and Damontre Moore are key. What will they bring to the table? Who knows. Hankins can play. Bromley is having a great pre-season (but it's pre-season).
LB - The talent is better this year than last. And Kennard looks like the real deal, a playmaker LB. The LB talent is much better than it was three years ago.
CB - DRC. If he stays healthy, Prince/DRC, that's a nice starting CB combo. Shaky behind those two, but not terrible. Prince and DRC have Pro Bowl level talent.
Safety - OK. What a mess. But it looks like a great trade-up to nab Collins.
Specials - Dwayne Harris and other signings directly targeting specials. There is far more talent on specials this year than last.
This team ought to be able to get in the 8-8 range, with the key risks (IMO) being DL and Safety. Will the defense gel? If it does, this team has a real shot at the playoffs, wild-card style.
I think the Grantland piece explains it and puts some of it in perspective, from just the past two seasons.
three victories over teams with winning records in two years and two of those victories against Colt McCoy and Scott Tolzien led teams it highlights a team that is only beating bad teams - when it wins.
there are tons of issues with this team.
Before training camp, I felt this is a "test season" for the Giants rebuilding. I had several questions that need to be answered this season.
Will the 3 high drafts of the last few years find their place on the offensive line and be quality starters? (I was assuming Beaty to be the 4th)
Will they be able to find 3 quality starters at linebacker?
Will they have at least one real good safety? This all falls on Collins. Can they come up with a decent nickel back?
Will Victor Cruz be his old self for 2016? Or can someone like Cory Washington move in?
Is JPP back or was the end of last season a fluke? Should they give him a long term contract after the season?
These are questions that will take most of the season to answer. If all these questions are answered positive, I think they can be a playoff team in 2016. Of course, they'll also need another safety, OL and running back, which could be found in the draft or free agency. Filling 3 or 4 holes is not much for 1 off season. Right now, it's not looking too good for 2016, but there's still plenty of time to answer my questions.
If the answers to most of my questions is negative, then a complete rebuilding will be needed which could include Manning because of his age.
No it won't. He'll only come when there is undeniable talent, then get "sick" at the 1st sign of trouble.
I see some young players I think we can re-build around. I just wish I saw a few more if them!
We still have players in place on this team that can be good moving forward
We need to score some playmakers on d though and if we have that much cash moving forward I would not blow it up
the problem is being able to land the right guys in free agency
This d would be way better off had we landed McCourty and had a gotten buster skrine
Then your looking at
Prince drc skrine
McCourty Landon Collins
Which if that happened this defense is looking WAYYY better this preseason
My point is with Eli in place and one big FA class and a solid draft I truly believe they can still win moving forward, which is why I don't get rid of Eli
Adding a few playmakers (a stud on d and someone on O) in addition to growth from young guys and our regular guys , I believe there is a core of players
Eli beckham Cruz vereen Williams Flowers richburg pugh? Hankins kennard Owa DRC Collins
...I agree with everything you say, with one big caveat.
Eli had a great season last year and the Giants were one of the worst football teams in the NFL.
Transaltion -- a roster with a signficant talent deficiency that can never be fixed with a great QB absorbing so much cap space.
Simply put there is one player on the team who is the reason we can win games and he is worth what they will pay him for a multitude of reasons. We know exactly what the qb can do if given a roster to compete on his level and the issue is not what he gets paid but rather who gets paid to play with him and not blow their hands off or have career ending injuries in their first year. I mean just think about how many injuries this team has had and marvel at the fact that through all of it, we haven't had to be terrified of who is coming off the bench because the quarterback got hurt (knock on wood, fingers crossed etc etc etc).
Think about it this way....
If we got rid of Eli Manning in order to have space with which we could sign every free agent on earth, we would find ourselves saying "well we signed some nice talent but we don't have a qb so what's the point? If only we had a guy like Eli Manning we could compete and contend"
Again, Eli is the franchise and that's a good thing. After he is gone we all will be horrified at who we may have to watch replace him. We will have to sit there and wonder when and if we'll find another guy who can even come close to being as qualified and healthy. Look at all these other teams having to sift through flash in the pan free agents and disappointing draft picks that either get hurt often or have one good year before crashing back down to earth or being busts altogether. Hell take a look at the Jets who would be a contender if they had our qb. Eli Mannings don't grow on trees, that's why we never had anyone as good before him and may not have one after him for a tragically long time
What the hell is wrong with some of you??? To even entertain the notion of letting Eli walk for nothing let alone letting him go period is fucking insane. Just stop posting this crap. Please. Stop.
Teams can suck all year and get hot second half. Teams can certainly suck in August and end up playing good regular season football. The injuries are annoying but the entire team isn't hurt and not one household name is hurt. Get a fucking grip and stop with the same regurgitated negativity day in day out around here. If you're scared of investing any hope than just save it. We get it.
This place sucks this summer. Just horrible. I'm not expecting or asking for sunny skies and happy days posts but my god every fucking post is laced with negativity. It's not even September for fucks sake.
a) Giants finish 3-13 and have a shot at the "next great QB"
b) Eli sustains a serious injury.