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What would make me less convinced its a 6 win team

hitdog42 : 8/30/2015 11:41 am
1) Schwartz being healthy for a week--- and Richburg--- the OL is actually a "plus" even with Newhouse if all are healthy. Much of that is due to the stud we drafted in round 1.

2) cruz practicing and playing- Parker is JAG and doesn't warrant a roster spot. The ability to occupy the slot with a ODB talent is vital for extending drives.

3) eli comfortable in the pocket... he looks more like the guy feeling pressure that isn't there... thats not good. the OL has been fine- he needs to trust it.

Offensively, there is enough there to win games--- i would 100% not extend Eli until the end of the season--- there is no advantage right now and we could be entering the blow up phase of this 3 year disaster.

4) Kuhn on the 3rd unit Ellis starting--- it would 1) improve the team and 2) show me that the coaching staff has a clue. Ellis is better, and i struggle to even evaluate the defense when we run a guy out there that stinks.

Side note people keep saying "they want to see what kuhn has for a roster spot"--- Name me one example of a guy starting all preseason and then getting cut by the giants?

5) No more Cullen at DE... he is good at 1 thing- penetrating from the DT spot... dont put a mediocre square peg in a round hole.

6) Start Owa. He is the only DE that has shown some ability to set an edge and his upside is more then mediocre. with no JPP we need a special DE and he at least has a shot.

7) Beason healthy--- he's not the stud he once was, but Mclain is terrible. Kuhn + Mclain up the middle ... your team has no shot.

8) Play Cooper Taylor all game next week--- mix him, collins, and Merriweather and see what clicks best.

9) Prince and DRC showing lock down ability so that the defense can scheme and overcompensate for the weak middle of the field.

If all of the above happened this could be a 8 win team.... but not much more. We lost our best defender by a mile... the most important player to a 4-3 D. our #2 and #3 paid offensive players (Cruz and Beatty) are either hurt or dont warrant 8m a year in Cruz at current health. the roster is in rebuild anyways.... so the talent is just plain poor.

Remembering last year...  
silverfox : 8/30/2015 11:49 am : link
...about this time...oh, its only preseason. It doesn't indicate anything. Oh really?
If they  
Doomster : 8/30/2015 12:04 pm : link
beat Dallas?
A lot of good points  
KWALL2 : 8/30/2015 12:11 pm : link
Safety is a big problem and probably will be all year.

Beason healthy? I don't expect or think we need it. The young guy can probably step in without much of an impact. Beason is not a make or break player. Id like him out there but he's replaceable.
Thing is that list isn't that unrealistic  
BillT : 8/30/2015 12:14 pm : link
Especially the offensive stuff. I think Schwartz will finally earn his pay. He's a better than average RG when healthy and Newhouse is good enough. Cruz will be back though the offensive skill positions have good talent. The idea of not signing Eli is plain nuts no matter what happens this year.

I don't think Qwa will start but his development is a plus. My concern is the DT stuff but I've got to figure they know who to get out on the field. With Kennard and Thomas I think McLain can hold the fort for a game or two if needed. Safety is thin but not without some starting talent. DRC and Prince are as good as any pair of CBs in the league.

Of course he is replaceable....  
Doomster : 8/30/2015 12:16 pm : link
He is an average linebacker that looked good two years ago compared to what we were trotting out there....

Problem is, while he is replaceable, we have no one to replace him...
BillT, I see where you are coming from....  
Doomster : 8/30/2015 12:25 pm : link
But you are asking 5 guys, all playing new positions this year, to come together as a unit, and they have not played one full game.....if they can, great....if they can stay healthy, great.....but this is about as patchwork a line the Giants have ever put together on the field...these guys are strangers to each other....as individuals, they may be good players, but the OL is all about team work, and knowing what the guy to the left and right of you will do, when faced with different defensive situations....that is going to take time....

And Cruz is a huge question....I doubt he plays against the Pats....there is a good possibility he doesn't play in the opening game, and if he does, will he be 100%?

For this offense to be scary, it has to click on all cylinders.....there are bound to be a lot of misfires, as this engine gets tuned up....

The defense? Just too many question marks....

Have to hope this team can play .500 ball, and then get hot at the end of the season....
bill thats why i thought a decent topic for post  
hitdog42 : 8/30/2015 12:32 pm : link
I dont think many of these things are out of the question or asking too much (outside of Beason being healthy)--- the downside is i dont think it equates to more then 8 wins even if the above happened.
But its much better then the current product.


Doomster  
BillT : 8/30/2015 12:41 pm : link
Fair enough but the OL has a couple of weeks to get going. Not panicking yet and that goes for Cruz as well. Besides I think they have enough offensive skill talent even if Cruz is not 100%.

As far as the D if they can keep everyone on the field it can be a D that is "good enough" i.e., middle of the pack. Dallas won last year with a D ranked bottom 1/4 of the league. We're bet than that and better than the current Dallas D for that matter.
Thomas  
KWALL2 : 8/30/2015 12:48 pm : link
Can replace Beason or the young guy Unga. We have options. We also have much bigger problems than who can replace Beason.
I think there is a chance this team ends up being the best  
baadbill : 8/30/2015 1:15 pm : link
offensive team in Giants history. On paper they definitely have the chance IF (1) the OL comes together; (2) Cruz is 100% healthy; and (3) Randle or someone has a career year as the 3rd WR.

But the amazing thing to me is that, at the same time, they have the chance of being the worst defensive team in Giants history. No pass rush and can't stop the run. And that's without talking about the secondary.

Just thinking about a bunch of 38 to 35 games has me retching.
Didn't we start out 3-2?  
Headhunter : 8/30/2015 1:22 pm : link
Feeling pretty good up to then
Most of that is fair  
Matt M. : 8/30/2015 1:30 pm : link
and not unrealistic to accomplish. I don't think S will be a problem all year. I do think FS will be a problem, as they don't have a true one. Taylor may be the closes thing to one, and I'm not sure that's saying much. I think overall their LBs are faster and more athletic.

I wouldn't even have Kuhn on the 3rd unit. He just flat out shouldn't be on the roster. I agree most with your comment about Owa. He has the potential to be a very good player and he has done better than expected against the run this summer. I would have no problem starting him and Moore (I guess) at the other DE spot. But, I think all 8 or 9 DL need to rotate regularly for this unit to have any kind of success this year,
I will add, this team is obviously not without warts  
Matt M. : 8/30/2015 1:31 pm : link
But, their entire division is the same way. I think this team has enough talent to win 8, 9, or even 10 games. Any of those win totals could actually win this division.
the OL  
Dankbeerman : 8/30/2015 1:36 pm : link
doesn't have to be a strength of this team for them to be an improved unit. Newhouse has not been bad more so nondescript. Showed good push on the goaline at least. I feel Flowers/Pugh/Richburg/schwartz/Newhouse is better then any lineup we put out last year.

Can they gel and improve and get deeper when/if Beatty returns and maybe become a strength? its not that far fetched
RE: I think there is a chance this team ends up being the best  
RDJR : 8/30/2015 1:48 pm : link
In comment 12442951 baadbill said:
Quote:
offensive team in Giants history. On paper they definitely have the chance IF (1) the OL comes together; (2) Cruz is 100% healthy; and (3) Randle or someone has a career year as the 3rd WR.

But the amazing thing to me is that, at the same time, they have the chance of being the worst defensive team in Giants history. No pass rush and can't stop the run. And that's without talking about the secondary.

Just thinking about a bunch of 38 to 35 games has me retching.


We have to be able to run the ball. There is no sign that will happen. Let's face it, Jennings, Williams and/or Vereen are not making anybody forget Tiki Barber.
maybe the best offensive team for those  
hitdog42 : 8/30/2015 2:14 pm : link
that enjoy video games.
did you watch 2008 pre plax shooting? that was football
I do think we have the foundation of a decent team...  
Simms11 : 8/30/2015 2:23 pm : link
however, there is nobody on Defense or running the ball that scares anybody.
Logical assessment  
Howyadoin : 8/30/2015 2:53 pm : link
In my opinion...pre-season is a state of mind. Could never be used to evaluate 1st string capabilities.
agree with almost everything posted...  
grizz299 : 8/30/2015 3:10 pm : link
But not about the division. Philly defies everything I thought was going to happen and continues to run people off the field... Yesterday it was the Packers. I"m not going to annoint them yet, but they are starting to look scary.

Dallas goes deep in the playoffs and picks up Lee, Jones, Hardy, Collins and Gregory. And you don't think they got stronger?

Right now, I think Dallas should be among the favorites to go to the Superbowl and the surprising Eagles may be right there too.
the one item in hitdog42's post  
ColHowPepper : 8/30/2015 3:48 pm : link
that didn't elicit a comment and yet might be the most significant of all, on the offensive side of the ball:

Quote:
3) eli comfortable in the pocket... he looks more like the guy feeling pressure that isn't there... thats not good. the OL has been fine- he needs to trust it.


I didn't watch last night, was in Ohio dropping off the kid for her last year of school. But hitdog42, in his usual cogent perceptive posting, rings a bell here: I watched Jax game pretty carefully, posted, and noted the same that night: Eli looks tentative, jumpy, too quick on his reads and need to release, shall we use the dreaded Reese word "skittish"?

Fact of the matter is in the first two games the protection has been decent or a bit better, but Eli has not even looked decent (and I can't comment about last night, but I gather he did not have a stellar outing?).

With a growing family, already wealthy beyond his dreams, all the off-season rumble about the dangers of playing in the NFL, is it possible his heart is not in it? Would he acknowledge that to himself? Is the lack of extension bothering him all his protests to the contrary notwithstanding?
I believe he probably still has the necessary physical skills, and he's reached his mid-30s, so maybe it's taking his body longer to rev back up to regular season's rhythm and intensity? What I've seen is reasonable protection, a lot better than in a couple of recent years, but something is not yet right back there.

As for the rest of the OP points, all fair, and let's take a difference-maker Beason out of the equation: that signing = another Reese off-season mistake.

I do kind of disagree with Doomster, with whom I usually find myself on all fours about 98% of the time, as to the disjointed, patchwork nature. My take is that with Pugh, Richburg, now Flowers coming on in '13, '14, and '15, coupled with the free agents added each year, the collapse and retirements of Baas and Snee, the failed free agents added each year (Chas. Brown, anyone? Bueller né Brewer?, the endless Mosley and Brewer experiments as well as the TEs), this year seems about par for the course of the last four years.
probably gonna take a few games  
David B. : 8/30/2015 4:24 pm : link
for stuff to gel.

Like it did in 07 when the D gave up 80 points in the first two games.
RE: probably gonna take a few games  
hitdog42 : 8/30/2015 5:09 pm : link
In comment 12443311 David B. said:
Quote:
for stuff to gel.

Like it did in 07 when the D gave up 80 points in the first two games.


Osi, straphan, tuck

Not on this team- understanding concepts is one thing- having talented pass rushers is another
The example you wanted  
geemanfan : 8/30/2015 11:25 pm : link
Was Mike Patterson. Started at DT in the preseason and was cut.
Good list, Hitdog. I wouldn't rush to start Odighizuwa.  
Big Blue Blogger : 8/31/2015 6:51 am : link
There are two reasons:
1) He really is just learning how to play. His college career was truncated, and he played in a completely different defense. I'd like to see him start at some point this year, but throwing him out there right away is more likely to make the Giants a 6-10 team (or represent an admission that they are one) than lift them to a better record.

2) Hate to say it, but those hips may only have a certain number of NFL snaps in them. I wouldn't like to waste them before he knows what he's doing.
Maaan, JPP really effed this team over.  
Curtis in VA : 8/31/2015 7:42 am : link
What a dumbass.
Almost as boneheaded as the Plaxico thing.  
Curtis in VA : 8/31/2015 7:42 am : link
And probably as big a loss.
it does not appear to be an overly difficult schedule  
Les in TO : 8/31/2015 9:03 am : link
if you look at the non-division matchups, none of them are particularly intimidating. even the home game against the patriots - every game we've played against them in the coughlin-little bill years has been down to the wire - and given the pats are the champs, you can bet the gmen are going to show up for that game.

philly and dallas are formidable division opponents. Washington may be improved from last year but they are still somewhat of a mess.

if the team can stay healthy and can cut out the major mental mistakes that have plagued them the last few years - the turnovers, the drops, the QB/receivers not being on the same page, the missed defensive assignments leading to walk in touchdowns - cruz comes back to form, someone hungry steps up to make us forget about JPP, and the guys we signed the last couple of years show up and contribute like they were expected to, then the team can have success this year. but I'm not convinced that 50% of those things will happen and that's why I think a beatable schedule this year will go to waste.
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