Could it be the Giants have made things worse by not admitting the need to rebuild and acting accordingly? That would mean not signing stop gap veteran free agents and letting young guys play and risk failure so they might get better. Also, why stay on a treadmill at 6 to 8 wins and miss out on future stars in the draft?
This seems like a problem New York teams in particular have. The big market seems to demand having a respectable team. Look at the Knicks as example #1.
The rationale for the Giants seems to be that they have an established QB and can't waste him. But it should be clear by now that Eli is not the talent or leader who can carry a bad team. (Maybe no QB can do that.) And aren't they wasting him now anyway?
The worst reason for not going into rebuild mode is the annual desire to save old Tom's job. He should have been gone after 2013. Instead, they replace assistants.
?
Instead, visions of "repeat" and "SB clocks" danced in their heads....
That's kind of a double whammy,but it is probably the truth.
The rebuild began in 2013 with the release of many of the veterans. It also began 3 high draft picks on the OL. Everyone knew they would be bad in 2013.
2014 was light years better in terms of talent and performance.
2015 is year 3 into this. The offense is going to score points. The OL is better. There is a lot of offensive talent. The D has talent and is faster ... does the injury bug stay away during season.
I do not look at the other division teams and think there is a talent issue. I am beginning to question whether it is a coaching issue
Arniefez what team captains and good guys drafted aren't good football players? Or more importantly what non-captains and bad citizens should the NYG drafted instead?
You can make the argument they should have started sooner but there is hardly a doubt of what's happening now.
I mean what in the world do people want. there are 2 main reasons why we aren't good right now.
1. the drafts between 2009-2013 left us little players producing today.
2. injuries to the likes of Terrell thomas, Chad jones, david wilson, nicks,etc that ended careers before their primes.
Why do you think the Giants have not let young players play?
But each year, you see teams go from worst to first and vice versa, and usually the main difference is better health.
Very rarely does a team dump a lot of veterans, sign a bunch of youth and win shortly thereafter. If anything, they become like the Browns or Jags who are perpetually said to be rebuilding. Or, ahem , ahem, sucking.
I mean what in the world do people want. there are 2 main reasons why we aren't good right now.
1. the drafts between 2009-2013 left us little players producing today.
2. injuries to the likes of Terrell thomas, Chad jones, david wilson, nicks,etc that ended careers before their primes.
Did I complain about re-signing Eli? No. It's damn hard to find quality QBs.
I agree with you about both other points. But look at all the vet signings who have been hurt.
Here's the test for me. Will Odighizuwa start and get the majority of minutes, or will we see him play behind Ayers, Selvie or Jenkins.
Also, do you disagree about Coughlin.
Many players are young with few vets allocated significant dollars long term.
But each year, you see teams go from worst to first and vice versa, and usually the main difference is better health.
Very rarely does a team dump a lot of veterans, sign a bunch of youth and win shortly thereafter. If anything, they become like the Browns or Jags who are perpetually said to be rebuilding. Or, ahem , ahem, sucking.
Isn't the formula for worst to first either a team with talent that had a bad year or a team that has been building talent that blossoms?
It isn't like teams "rebuild". That infers that they sit veterans and/or get rid of them to foster youth. That they pretty much experiment at QB and positions like that to find what works for the following year. It just doesn't really happen anymore.
The salary cap really doesn't promote the idea of rebuilding. It has become fanspeak to acknowledge that their team has thrown the towel in during the season.
Or, that their team sucks.
The rebuild began in 2013 with the release of many of the veterans. It also began 3 high draft picks on the OL. Everyone knew they would be bad in 2013.
2014 was light years better in terms of talent and performance.
2015 is year 3 into this. The offense is going to score points. The OL is better. There is a lot of offensive talent. The D has talent and is faster ... does the injury bug stay away during season.
I do not look at the other division teams and think there is a talent issue. I am beginning to question whether it is a coaching issue
Agree with some of this, but a few issues. They were right to make another run at it in 2012 because they were obligated to defend the title. However, when they got ripped apart at Atlanta and Baltimore, they should have known right away to completely tear the team down.
Instead, they tried to patch up holes, run old veterans out there again (like Snee and Diehl) and pretend that this was still a Super Bowl contender when evidence from the 2nd half of the 2012 season showed that the window slammed shut. Reese displayed some delusions with the Super Bowl clocks in 2013 when it was obvious we were one of the 5 worst teams in the league despite going 7-9. I think Ross and Chris Mara are screwing shit up in the front office more than Reese, especially in terms of talent acquisition, but eventually Reese and John Mara have to take the blame because they are responsible for keeping the underlings who can't do the job around.
Reese hit big on Odell and that probably saved his job for another year, but the defense has deteriorated to such an extent that even with JPP and Spags, in a best case scenario they're no better than middle of the pack. Odell covered up a lot of warts. The OL improved in 2014, I'll grant that, but not to the extent required to compete. Reese looks to have hit again with Flowers, which is a good sign, and improves the previously poor OL to average, but the defense is still seriously deficient in talent, even after drafting Collins and O2, who are good but will need a season to develop.
The defense still needs another DT, at least two DEs when JPP says goodbye at the end of the season, a weakside LB (JT Thomas isn't the answer IMO), a middle linebacker (Beason is always hurt and McClain is a backup), at least two safeties (ideally a FS next to Collins and good depth), and at least one corner, probably two since Prince playing 16 games is never a certainty
With the new CBA and F/A, there is going to be alot more turnover than in the past. You can't resign all good players.
I mean what in the world do people want. there are 2 main reasons why we aren't good right now.
1. the drafts between 2009-2013 left us little players producing today.
2. injuries to the likes of Terrell thomas, Chad jones, david wilson, nicks,etc that ended careers before their primes.
I know its been said beford but actually reading those players names again really makes you realize how many holes they left. Take it a step further and add Kenny Phillips and Steve Smith. Smith wouldve gotten a contract and not factored into this year most likely, but him, Cruz and Nicks? With Phillips patrolling Centerfield and Collins roaming u derneath? Just stop. ;-)
Just curious but how would replace 39 to 40 players over 2 years? Or conversely what 13 to 14 players would you keep?
Fat Man recognizes the problem posed by Free Agency and Salary Cap. Original Poster does not.
Yeah all those team Captain's the Giants drafted certainly suck. Guys like OBJ, Weston Richburg, Devon Kennard, and Nat Berhe are just the kind of choir boys this team doesn't need. (sarcasm now off)
Additionally, the best D Player, best DLine player blew his finger off. If he doesn't get hurt, teams have to game plan for him. JPP on the line impacts how the rest of the DLine plays.
Absent those two injuries - this team is playing better football. It all starts up front.
press reports say otherwise about Beckham. Go back to some of the newspaper write-ups following the draft. "Les Miles was quoted as saying ODB "never missed a practice. That's rare." He's a tremendous worker and team captain (the theme of the draft). He's got the bloodlines. More than that, however, he's got the skill set."
http://www.bigblueview.com/2014/5/11/5704706/2014-nfl-draft-analysis-odell-beckham-jr-film-study-ny-giants
Berhe is not on IR yet, and was a strong special teams contributor in his 1st year. You can't blame him for a hardened blood clot.
Bromley may have been a reach, but you can argue is has been the 2nd best DT in the preseason. Coaches may not agree with me here.
Jackson looked promising til he got hurt. Did he get hurt because he was a choir boy team Captain?
Kennard needs to stay healthy, but again, is he getting hurt because he was a team Captain?
College Football team Captains are usually voted team Captain because they are one of the best players on the team, demonstrate high character, and are consistent on and off the field. I have no problem with the Giants picking these types of players. Just so happens, a lot of them are really good players.
They are rebuilding or whatever the hell you want to call it. Young team with a few vets sprinkled in.
Heading into 2013 they were trying to hold on with aging vets and signed a bunch of stop gaps. That hasn't been the case the last 2 years at all.
Instead, visions of "repeat" and "SB clocks" danced in their heads....
Yep