Some of you make it see as though the path back to contention is as simple as acquiring picks and starting over by securing talent at other positions, sucking for a year or two and then drafting another franchise QB. What is the track record of teams actually doing that and succeeding? I can't think of any outside of the recent Colts and that was when there was A) an all time, slam dunk prospect on the horizon, and B) that Colts team is not that good outside of Luck being extraordinary. If youre going to bring up the 9ers going from Montana to Young, Pack from Favre to Rodgers or even Eagles with McNabb to Vick, those inheriting players were already on the team and those teams were already stocked with vets.
You build teams through the draft and we have started to do that. Despite what many would have you believe, there is a decent amount of young talent on this roster. Obviously we have ODB, cruz and RR (at least for another year), and it looks like we have a tough physical albeit young receiver in Geremy Davis. The line, our talent is pretty much in 3 players, all were drafted in house in Pugh, Flowers (who reminds me of a more tame Erick Williams) and Richburg. Depth on the lines is def a priority going forward. Corner we are pretty set with starters for at least 3 more years (assuming Prince gets a new deal), but again depth here is always needed. Pretty much bank on OL and DB draft picks every year. DL? Hankins is getting ready to become all pro, Bromley has been one of the lone bright spots of the preseason, OO looks like the goods and Moore has a ton of ability to unlock. The other potential difference makers on the team are Landon Collins, JT Thomas and (dare I say) Orleans Darkwa.
That is A LOT more than other doormat teams of years past who look for that quarterback to lead them out have. Many of those players are cost controlled.
So why dump with Eli? Yea, we m8ght not be shit this year. Most were saying when MacAdoo took over itd be a 3 year plan. Well we're in year 2. If we traded Eli, in 2 years we might be the Houston Texans or the Jets. If you're looking for the next 3rd rounder (a la Russell Wilson or Kaepernick) to lead a stacked team to the Super Bowl, don't hold your breath. With the number of teams in CFB going to the spread, finding an NFL ready guy with knowledge of a pro style is going to be harder and harder. I think we might start seeing more and more of the pro ready guys coming from smaller schools.
Here it is. Eli is 34 and (knock on wood) has stayed remarkably healthy. Plantar Fascitis for a QB? Manageable. He is still very good in tight moments and we might have to wait another year to build the rezt of the team up around him. Big deal. We aren't the Pats. We don't play against the Fins, Bills and Jets twice a year. We reload and build a TOUGH, battle ready team when we are in contention. What was all the amazing talent we had on ANY of our Super Bowl teams? Outside of the D on the first two squads, maybe Bavaro could be considered all pro? Was Simms considered top 5 in the league in 86? Hoss?
We have a clutch, tough, great quarterback who will cost a lot but if we get rid of Eli, the wait for another run will be A LOT longer. Brady is what? 38? Extend Eli, show improvement, make a run next year at the latest.
Also Wilson and Kaepernick (and the bloom is off that rose) came to squads with perhaps the Top two defenses n the league
Give Eli a Top Ten D and we probably win the whole thing.
We also know that in the last 10 years we're the only team to win two SBs..The magnitude of that accomplishment cannot be underscored enough..As aggravating as that would be, I would take two world championships followed by 5-7 playoff-less seasons anytime..No questions asked..
It is SO HARD to win a SB..Very, very hard
Also Wilson and Kaepernick (and the bloom is off that rose) came to squads with perhaps the Top two defenses n the league
Give Eli a Top Ten D and we probably win the whole thing.
Rocco watch how good the Texans are this year with Hoyer or Mallet as their QB. You just dont let a two time super bowl winning qb off ur team. Especially one who TWICE led a drive to win the game with his last drive.
And for the first time in 60 seasons, I might consider that as well
We also know that in the last 10 years we're the only team to win two SBs..The magnitude of that accomplishment cannot be underscored enough..As aggravating as that would be, I would take two world championships followed by 5-7 playoff-less seasons anytime..No questions asked..
It is SO HARD to win a SB..Very, very hard
Two disagreements:
1) Pitt won 2
2) I disagree with your thought that a great O and avg D can win you a championship. I can name maybe the '06 Colts as a team that fit that category.
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I'll find something more constructive to do with my Sunday afternoons.
And for the first time in 60 seasons, I might consider that as well
I too, would pretty much not make Giants games a priority on Sundays anymore. I would look at them as a team with flawed leadership and wait for them to have a cataclysmic change from the top down.
Eli makes more than his usual share of mistakes in the pre-season..Nothing new..Not close to being a concern of mine
I agree.
We've seen this too many times when the games count too.
We get that Eric, but really, are you ready to put it all on Nassib?
Uh oh...
They did win in '05. 05 season 06 game.
Maybe Im confused....you said great O and above avg D. Did you mean to flip that?
Eric...hes not in rhythm....its preseason! As the foot doc said, Eli not be8ng sharp right not is the least if my worries.
Eric the sense of urgency isnt there in the preseason. If ur really that smoked about eli's mistakes the last few weeks, you might want to take a break from the preseason. Not telling you what to do, but my memories of the Giants in recent preseasons have not been good.
As far as Eli is concerned, he's never going to stop making some inexplicable throws. He could win ten SuperBowls and they'd still happen. His genius is that he never lets a previous mistake affect his next throw.
As I said on another thread, my guess is he gets extended, unless the team really is bad this year. In that case, he may get franchised.
Understood, but I am firmly in the camp that holds on to a productive Eli until without a doubt there is a clear better option or we have no choice but to move on.
If your saying Ryan is the real deal our transition franchise QB for the next decade (Young, Rodgers, Luck, Cunningham, Boomer etc.) then so be it. I am not sure.
It's improvement. The offense will be fine barring injury and getting Cruz back should be an upgrade over Parker.
This. Simple. You better have Rodgers or Luck if you want to move on. We don't.
That said, while i can empathize with those worried about not having Eli, I equally do not get the absolute lack of belief that we could have a good team with Nassib.
You don't need a top 5 pick to have a starting QB who can be a good pro in this league. Nassib is showing something.
This may honestly become a rebuild + financial conversation. Maybe it should. We don't know, it is too early to be having the conversation.
As to the D, I guess I wasn't clear..Let me repost..It's an Offensive league..On paper we can be on a par with most if not all offenses..Many of these great Os(perhaps all?) have average D's as well..So, it is my contention that with a great(on paper) O and an average D, we can seriously compete..
With the possible exception of Seattle and maybe a few others, average Ds are enough to compete if you have a great O imo
That said, while i can empathize with those worried about not having Eli, I equally do not get the absolute lack of belief that we could have a good team with Nassib.
You don't need a top 5 pick to have a starting QB who can be a good pro in this league. Nassib is showing something.
This may honestly become a rebuild + financial conversation. Maybe it should. We don't know, it is too early to be having the conversation.
Nassib is showing "nothing" in terms of a predictor for future performances..It's pre-season..He has the # 2 job sewn up and there's no pressure to have to get it done..What he is showing is perhaps why they drafted him 4th..They expected this
More modern time, after Simms to Eli, deep valleys. Deep dark valleys at the QB position.
That is what i read more of... and it makes sense. He has had 1 good season (which was similar to many QBs in the NFL)--- and several poor ones prior.
The team is being prudent in their decision making on this contract as it likely dictates their flexibility and direction for the next 4-5 years.
Lets see the season evolve a bit with regards to the Eli decision... and the amount of homersim is as absurd as the negativity. 2007 means something for my memory and when i look back... it means nothing for 2016-2018... and neither does 2011 either.
Regarding all this rebuilding talk: Isn't that what we've been doing for the past two years? It's not like the cupboard's bare here.
That is one thing that would make me stop rooting for this team
that is in the past, you need to remove emotion and history from the equation and evaluate whether or not it makes sense to pay Eli 20+M per season to lead this team through a rebuild at 35 - 38 years old or cut ties with him, use that money elsewhere and get the QB some other way.
I lived through all the same history as many people here who became fans around the '86 season so I experience some awful QB play and the jettisoning of Phil Simms, but I don't think that means b/c of the way Simms was let go, make a potential mistake with Eli.
If there is a way to get the team competitive around him and pay him then I think it's more compelling, but otherwise how is this season, or next season, or the one after different than the past 3 which are NOT what the organization should be looking to duplicate.
I also think if this season goes poorly Reese and Coughlin should be shown the door. I strongly don't believe winning two super bowls 5 and 9 years ago give you a lifetime appointment as coach or GM.
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to be having this conversation since we have not played a game yet.
That said, while i can empathize with those worried about not having Eli, I equally do not get the absolute lack of belief that we could have a good team with Nassib.
You don't need a top 5 pick to have a starting QB who can be a good pro in this league. Nassib is showing something.
This may honestly become a rebuild + financial conversation. Maybe it should. We don't know, it is too early to be having the conversation.
Nassib is showing "nothing" in terms of a predictor for future performances..It's pre-season..He has the # 2 job sewn up and there's no pressure to have to get it done..What he is showing is perhaps why they drafted him 4th..They expected this
well he has shown what he needs to for the #2 spot. until he is given an opportunity, you don't know what he can do. so they can only go off of what they see in him.
The conversation of spending $20M per on Eli if the team is in shambles is a real one, I don't get the disregard for it as a conversation topic if the Giants don't do well this year. I equally think it is negligent for the Giants to go and spend a top five pick on a QB if they are slotted that high when we have Nassib and the picks spent there.
That is a slam dunk to me
Let's say you jettison Eli, the reasoning is you need cap money for the rebuild. Well what happens if you get lucky again and draft a franchise QB. When his time comes he needs to be paid as well. Who says that by that time the team has won any championships or is any better than it is now?
I believe strongly that if this front office can not put enough talent around Eli to compete, cap or no cap, find some guys who can. Much easier to find that guy than another franchise QB.
Nassib has the best job in the world, backup to a franchise QB. He faces almost no expectations and he plays against backups in the preseason or in practice. I agree he looked good last night, it means basically nothing. The odds of Nassib being a fraction as good as Eli Manning, as being able to lead a NYC football franchise and all that entails on and off the field, is in my opinion infinitesimal.
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I'll find something more constructive to do with my Sunday afternoons.
And for the first time in 60 seasons, I might consider that as well
Where this organization is vs where Eli is in his career is a conversation worth having, but this fan base is so incredibly delusional when it comes to its back-up QBs. From David Carr being a top 20 QB to letting Rhett Bomar go being the biggest mistake Jerry Reese will ever make, it just never stops with some of you.
The Mara's are going to pay Eli with a contract similar to Big Ben and Rivers, because they are comparable QBs. You can give Ben the edge in the stats, but the Super Bowls are the same. It's the going rate for a good starting QB, and the Giants know if they don't pay it, somebody else will.
WE HAVE ONE POTENTIAL SOLID STARTER AT S IN COLLINS!
WE HAVE 2 CB's THAT CAN START FOR A LONG TIME IF WE GET THE PRINCE DEAL DONE! ZERO, ZILCH, NADA BEHIND THEM WE ALL KNOW 3 OR EVEN 4 CBS IS CRUCIAL TO EVERY TEAM! WE HAVE ONE DT THAT CAN PLAY AT A HIGH LEVEL IN HANKINS! AYERS IS A SOLID STARTER AT DE! MOORE NEEDS WORK BUT HE HAS FLASHED, RUNNING OUT OF EXCUSES FOR HIM ITS YEAR 3! WE NEED 11 GUYS WHO CAN PLAY AT THIS LEVEL ON D AND AS OF NOW WE HAVE 4 OR 5! AND IF PRINCE OR DRC GETS HURT WHICH WILL MORE THAN LIKELY HAPPEN GIVEN THEIR TRACK RECORD WE ARE FUCKED ONCE AGAIN THIS YEAR!! WE NEED A DT, 2 LBS, A PASS RUSHER OR 2, A SAFETY AND A CORNER OR TWO... WE HAVE A LOOONG WAY TO GO THIS TEAM WILL BE PICKING IN THE TOP 10 AGAIN IN 2016