Some of you make it see as though the path back to contention is as simple as acquiring picks and starting over by securing talent at other positions, sucking for a year or two and then drafting another franchise QB. What is the track record of teams actually doing that and succeeding? I can't think of any outside of the recent Colts and that was when there was A) an all time, slam dunk prospect on the horizon, and B) that Colts team is not that good outside of Luck being extraordinary. If youre going to bring up the 9ers going from Montana to Young, Pack from Favre to Rodgers or even Eagles with McNabb to Vick, those inheriting players were already on the team and those teams were already stocked with vets.
You build teams through the draft and we have started to do that. Despite what many would have you believe, there is a decent amount of young talent on this roster. Obviously we have ODB, cruz and RR (at least for another year), and it looks like we have a tough physical albeit young receiver in Geremy Davis. The line, our talent is pretty much in 3 players, all were drafted in house in Pugh, Flowers (who reminds me of a more tame Erick Williams) and Richburg. Depth on the lines is def a priority going forward. Corner we are pretty set with starters for at least 3 more years (assuming Prince gets a new deal), but again depth here is always needed. Pretty much bank on OL and DB draft picks every year. DL? Hankins is getting ready to become all pro, Bromley has been one of the lone bright spots of the preseason, OO looks like the goods and Moore has a ton of ability to unlock. The other potential difference makers on the team are Landon Collins, JT Thomas and (dare I say) Orleans Darkwa.
That is A LOT more than other doormat teams of years past who look for that quarterback to lead them out have. Many of those players are cost controlled.
So why dump with Eli? Yea, we m8ght not be shit this year. Most were saying when MacAdoo took over itd be a 3 year plan. Well we're in year 2. If we traded Eli, in 2 years we might be the Houston Texans or the Jets. If you're looking for the next 3rd rounder (a la Russell Wilson or Kaepernick) to lead a stacked team to the Super Bowl, don't hold your breath. With the number of teams in CFB going to the spread, finding an NFL ready guy with knowledge of a pro style is going to be harder and harder. I think we might start seeing more and more of the pro ready guys coming from smaller schools.
Here it is. Eli is 34 and (knock on wood) has stayed remarkably healthy. Plantar Fascitis for a QB? Manageable. He is still very good in tight moments and we might have to wait another year to build the rezt of the team up around him. Big deal. We aren't the Pats. We don't play against the Fins, Bills and Jets twice a year. We reload and build a TOUGH, battle ready team when we are in contention. What was all the amazing talent we had on ANY of our Super Bowl teams? Outside of the D on the first two squads, maybe Bavaro could be considered all pro? Was Simms considered top 5 in the league in 86? Hoss?
We have a clutch, tough, great quarterback who will cost a lot but if we get rid of Eli, the wait for another run will be A LOT longer. Brady is what? 38? Extend Eli, show improvement, make a run next year at the latest.
My sentiments exactly.
It would not be appointment television the way it has been for me, and part of that is a declining interest in the league in general. Eli's departure would be a final nail.
Still two weeks until the start of the season. Does not surprise me at all. I would expect the Giants to wait until all preseason games are over before anything gets serious. There is very little negotiating room for the franchise here. It's either they want Eli or they don't, and they would be crazy to break up the Manning-OBJ pairing (and they know it).
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In comment 12443202 bceagle05 said:
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I'll find something more constructive to do with my Sunday afternoons.
And for the first time in 60 seasons, I might consider that as well
Well, if the team is really bad, I'm certainly not going to plan my days around watching them. But I stuck with the Mets, I have stuck with the Knicks (mostly), and I stuck with the Giants from 1970 on. I grew up with them when things were really awful, I won't give up on them when Eli leaves.
I hear ya buddy..Since 1956 for me...But the NFL has become nearly unwatchable with all the O rules in place...It wouldn't take much to pull back..Eli gone would hasten that pull back as much as I live and breathe blue..
the team doesn't.
the fan base could probably use a purging anyway.
A team that is a Qb away from being in the playoffs, championships over the next 3-4 years?
What do you get? A as in 1, starter and/or a couple of picks? What spot 15?20?/47?50? with our GM, who many want out?
We are better off paying a premium for 1 or 2 FAs, especially OL, or D, and a few others, and pull the FT on JPP and work with Eli on an extension.
Well a couple of reasons. You wait for Rothlesberger to set the market as he would probably be the highest paid of the three. You wait for Rivers to set the floor, since he is the one without rings. Eli slides in the middle. So realistically, negotiations could not start until Rivers was done and both sides knew it. I don't think there is much more to this story at all. The Giants are not going to part ways with a Super Bowl winning QB who has plenty of years left and is paired with one of the best young WRs in the NFL. They want to keep that tandem together.
Can't wait till this freaking extension gets done.
Can't wait till this freaking extension gets done.
Same here!!!
the team doesn't.
the fan base could probably use a purging anyway.
Who made you judge and jury of who or what makes a good fan? You mentioned elsewhere that you endured all the ups and downs of others who have followed the team since 1986. You've had the golden years. You didn't experience the 70s. You didn't suffer through Jerry Golsteyn, Randy Dean, Craig Morton and Joe Piscarcik. The only pro-bowler we had was our punter Dave Jennings. You have no right to judge anyone.
We've seen this too many times when the games count too.
Oh my god you're kidding...
Are we really bashing Eli because of last night? This place has gone nuts.
Not that it even matters because it's still just the preseason and it doesn't matter!!
This place is nuts
That's kind of unfair. All of those QBs have better teams than Eli has, especially on the offensive line.
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on a message board/online community stop watching the Giants?
the team doesn't.
the fan base could probably use a purging anyway.
Who made you judge and jury of who or what makes a good fan? You mentioned elsewhere that you endured all the ups and downs of others who have followed the team since 1986. You've had the golden years. You didn't experience the 70s. You didn't suffer through Jerry Golsteyn, Randy Dean, Craig Morton and Joe Piscarcik. The only pro-bowler we had was our punter Dave Jennings. You have no right to judge anyone.
I wasn't judging anyone. Sorry if my post came across that way. I was just saying who cares if people stop watching the team or just are less invested in it. Being completely honest I have already become less invested in the Giants myself. Every loss I used to get pissed off an angry and the worse loss the worse I took it, Cowboys Redskins and Eagles losses I was downright angry.
Now, I still hate the losses, but with 3 kids and activities on weekends, I don't even see every game real time. I definitely don't live and die with the team like I used to, and I definitely don't get emotional after losses.
fans can do what they want and what other people think shouldn't matter.
I do believe fan bases purge themselves, and old fans lose interest (I talk to old Giants fans who just don't keep up with the team as much anymore, they don't know all the players, or the opponents etc.) and they're replaced by newer fans.
I didn't mean to make it seem like I was judging anyone for being a good fan, my point was simply who cares.
"What was all the amazing talent we had on ANY of our Super Bowl teams? Outside of the D on the first two squads, maybe Bavaro could be considered all pro? Was Simms considered top 5 in the league in 86? Hoss?"
You lose credibility and undermine practically your entire opening post.
Christ, it has literally been years since you've had a positive post about this team and seem to relish in them doing poorly.
Judging credibility isn't your strong suit.
"What was all the amazing talent we had on ANY of our Super Bowl teams? Outside of the D on the first two squads, maybe Bavaro could be considered all pro? Was Simms considered top 5 in the league in 86? Hoss?"
You lose credibility and undermine practically your entire opening post.
Uhhhhh....ok. Go.
When you fire a blanket statement like you did at me, you lose all credibility.
Where was this derth of talent you're hinting at. Im actually looking forward to reading what you consider as uber talented players we had.
Not sure if I understand the post, but Im sure any one or more of the Texans, Bills, Jets, Chiefs and hell even the Skins or the Bears would be interested in Eli.
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In comment 12443446 pjcas18 said:
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on a message board/online community stop watching the Giants?
the team doesn't.
the fan base could probably use a purging anyway.
Who made you judge and jury of who or what makes a good fan? You mentioned elsewhere that you endured all the ups and downs of others who have followed the team since 1986. You've had the golden years. You didn't experience the 70s. You didn't suffer through Jerry Golsteyn, Randy Dean, Craig Morton and Joe Piscarcik. The only pro-bowler we had was our punter Dave Jennings. You have no right to judge anyone.
I wasn't judging anyone. Sorry if my post came across that way. I was just saying who cares if people stop watching the team or just are less invested in it. Being completely honest I have already become less invested in the Giants myself. Every loss I used to get pissed off an angry and the worse loss the worse I took it, Cowboys Redskins and Eagles losses I was downright angry.
Now, I still hate the losses, but with 3 kids and activities on weekends, I don't even see every game real time. I definitely don't live and die with the team like I used to, and I definitely don't get emotional after losses.
fans can do what they want and what other people think shouldn't matter.
I do believe fan bases purge themselves, and old fans lose interest (I talk to old Giants fans who just don't keep up with the team as much anymore, they don't know all the players, or the opponents etc.) and they're replaced by newer fans.
I didn't mean to make it seem like I was judging anyone for being a good fan, my point was simply who cares.
Pjacs, thanks for the apology. Sorry, I probably over reacted.
I am much more concerned with the schizophremic approach of the team to rebuild. One minute it's looking for youth to infuse to an aging team and the next its shopping for over-the-hill or injury prone vets who might be the last piece to get to the playoffs. Part of the problem is that the head coach knows he is working on a one year rebuild to keep his job. That no-win situation leads to thinking that can affect your personnel decisions in a way that hurts the team's efforts to develop youth.
We'll see this week how it goes but in my mind it would be a disaster to cut young players with potential in the hope that aging vets can provide one last hurrah. So how many Meriweathers, Miles, Browns, Jones, etc. make the final roster? What happens to Darkwa and Unga and Whitlock? Those are issues to discuss and worry about instead of which team will pay Eli next year.
[quote] And Eli was clutch at the end of the other Dallas game.
You could make the argument that Eli's overthrow to Parker that was intercepted lost us the 2nd Dallas game. It was an easy touch pass to a wide open Parker for a TD and Eli blew it. 14 point swing.
If he takes one dollar more, the naysayers would complain....fact is, it's based more on the market and the position....Rivers, Newton, and Ryan have ridiculous contracts, for qb's that have won nothing....but it's the going rate for qb's in the NFL....
If Eli gets 22.000001M per, he becomes the highest paid.....until the next Eli(te) NFL qb contract comes up for a new contract....
Eli will be 35 in 4 mos. He wants to be one of the highest paid Qb's if not the highest paid. This does not allow us to add the many needed positions this team needs to compete. We are injury prone. Free Agency is expensive. We only have a limited # of picks which have not always been used wisely. We are not winning anything with these injuries. Eli has not quite been his self since Burress left. Last year was the exception but he also had Superman as his WR which made things easier for him. But we still missed the playoffs!
If Eli is getting out played by his understudy who is a heck of a lot cheaper and he has equity you can't just ignore that at all cost. Why sit Nassib for another five years when he's playing better than Eli now. A cheaper, younger Nassib allows you to get some more FA's in here and extra picks or great player via trade or both.
Make no mistake this is on TC for not doing what was better for the team and not seeing Nassib go with the ones in this last game. He didn't want a QB controversy, but what you did was put Eli's feelings ahead of what's best for the team in the long run. And in the long run that could cost you from being competitive or relevant for a long time.
Eli will be 35 in 4 mos. He wants to be one of the highest paid Qb's if not the highest paid. This does not allow us to add the many needed positions this team needs to compete. We are injury prone. Free Agency is expensive. We only have a limited # of picks which have not always been used wisely. We are not winning anything with these injuries. Eli has not quite been his self since Burress left. Last year was the exception but he also had Superman as his WR which made things easier for him. But we still missed the playoffs!
If Eli is getting out played by his understudy who is a heck of a lot cheaper and he has equity you can't just ignore that at all cost. Why sit Nassib for another five years when he's playing better than Eli now. A cheaper, younger Nassib allows you to get some more FA's in here and extra picks or great player via trade or both.
Make no mistake this is on TC for not doing what was better for the team and not seeing Nassib go with the ones in this last game. He didn't want a QB controversy, but what you did was put Eli's feelings ahead of what's best for the team in the long run. And in the long run that could cost you from being competitive or relevant for a long time.
And then there's Brady, Peyton, Brees, all years older who have lots of money sunk into them..Eli could easily play another 5-6 years..No signs of physically slowing down..Mentally, we know how sharp he is..Franchise QBs need to be paid very well..He will be..I would certainly pump the same or more money into Eli than I would Ben who is a year or more younger and physically going downhill, imo..
He's going to get his $20-$22 mill/yr with around $60 guaranteed over 5 years, imv
You just don't see many elite QB's let go because personnel guys rightfully know the value tehy hold. I'd rather pay Eli his worth than do what some teams do. You want to be the Bears and pay Cutler? You want to have to pay Cam Newton? Teams will overpay for QB's whether they are good or bad. At least we will pay ours what he's worth.
6+M on the cap is a HUGE difference.
Of course Brady is in unique situation with a multi-millionaire wife, but Eli is kind of in a unique situation too in that he has career earnings over 150M plus endorsements and a 120M net worth.
I hate seeming like I'm advising someone else what do to with their money, but it would go a long way to the rebuild process if Eli signed a deal like Brady's versus Rivers or Ben.
6M per year extra on the cap for those 4 or 5 years of his deal will give the team flexibility to add free agents where they might be needed.
Though that is highly unlikely if not altogether not going to happen.
Eli will be 35 in 4 mos. He wants to be one of the highest paid Qb's if not the highest paid. This does not allow us to add the many needed positions this team needs to compete. We are injury prone. Free Agency is expensive. We only have a limited # of picks which have not always been used wisely. We are not winning anything with these injuries. Eli has not quite been his self since Burress left. Last year was the exception but he also had Superman as his WR which made things easier for him. But we still missed the playoffs!
If Eli is getting out played by his understudy who is a heck of a lot cheaper and he has equity you can't just ignore that at all cost. Why sit Nassib for another five years when he's playing better than Eli now. A cheaper, younger Nassib allows you to get some more FA's in here and extra picks or great player via trade or both.
Make no mistake this is on TC for not doing what was better for the team and not seeing Nassib go with the ones in this last game. He didn't want a QB controversy, but what you did was put Eli's feelings ahead of what's best for the team in the long run. And in the long run that could cost you from being competitive or relevant for a long time.
i normally try to avoid individual poster attacks, but you're one of the worst, most cracked out posters on the site. You belong on a YouTube comments section.
Eli hasn't been the same since Burress left? TC was avoiding a QB controversy??
I'll worry when there is something to worry about.
My posse's getting big and my posse's getting bigger.
Sorry, I have no understanding of what you just said..:)
Ok whats your plan if they let him go and play nassib. Who you signing as a free agent. Remember these players have to want to play for a team that is essentially a bottom 7 team in the league.