for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

BBI Giants-Jets Preseason Game Review Now Available

Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 6:18 pm
FYI.
Preseason Game Preview: New York Jets at New York Giants, August 29, 2015 - ( New Window )
Lol  
Andy in Boston : 8/30/2015 6:45 pm : link
Half the starters on defense have played 5 quarters of preseason football in In a new defensive system and they're a bad defense.
Andy  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 6:54 pm : link
LOL...defenders not getting off of blocks has nothing to do with scheme.
Agree with everything written here  
Old Dirty Beckham : 8/30/2015 6:57 pm : link
What has happened to this roster?
Andy  
Old Dirty Beckham : 8/30/2015 7:00 pm : link
This isnt a snap judgement. These are things webe seen for a few years now. You cant scheme around a lack of talent on all three levels of your defense.

how many players on the giants defense would see snaps on the jets defense?
RE: Andy  
Andy in Boston : 8/30/2015 7:04 pm : link
In comment 12443571 Eric from BBI said:
[quote] LOL...defenders not getting off of blocks has nothing to do with scheme. [/quote



I know Eric but you could watch every preseason game in the nfl and you'll see heavy examples of defenders not getting off blocks etc etc. You may end up being right but I think it's worth giving it some time. I'd like to think that with Ayers, Odigizuwa , Moore and Kennard we can get some pressure on the QB. And if JPP shows up and gets into football shape ..... He could help in 4-6 weeks.
Fairly  
giantgiantfan : 8/30/2015 7:05 pm : link
scathing review. I haven't watch a single preseason game this year, sounds like thats a good thing.
RE: Andy  
Andy in Boston : 8/30/2015 7:05 pm : link
In comment 12443585 Old Dirty Beckham said:
Quote:
This isnt a snap judgement. These are things webe seen for a few years now. You cant scheme around a lack of talent on all three levels of your defense.

how many players on the giants defense would see snaps on the jets defense?


I just don't think you can go on much in the preseason - that's just my opinion.
Andy  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 7:14 pm : link
You might feel differently when Dallas puts 45 points up on these guys in two weeks.
RE: Andy  
BigBlueJ : 8/30/2015 7:22 pm : link
In comment 12443610 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You might feel differently when Dallas puts 45 points up on these guys in two weeks.


Eric, there is a good chance Dallas does drops 45, and maybe you end up being right for the season, usually you are. But I still don't feel this doom and gloom with this franchise, even if we suffer this year. This Giant organization does more good things then bad running this football team. We are having bad luck through our transition period, I get that, but the worm will turn and I believe Eli is a part of that success, even if it is in 2016, 2017 or 2018.
the bit on manning  
micky : 8/30/2015 7:22 pm : link
Unfortunately is gaining strength on that side of thinking.
Reese will be given a pass.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 8/30/2015 7:23 pm : link
If true, terrible. He's done a horrible job. TC can only work with what he's given & lately Reese hasn't given him much.

So nothing will change. Awesome.
RE: Andy  
Andy in Boston : 8/30/2015 7:23 pm : link
In comment 12443610 Eric from BBI said:
[quote] You might feel differently when Dallas puts 45 points up on these guys in two weeks. [/quote


I would certainly feel differently
RE: the bit on manning  
JCin332 : 8/30/2015 8:03 pm : link
In comment 12443620 micky said:
Quote:
Unfortunately is gaining strength on that side of thinking.


Gaining strength by whom the mouthbreathers on BBI?

Unfortunately Eric after reading what you wrote about Eli I really would advise you take a break from posting for awhile...

LOL Nassib...holy shit this place has really jumped the shark..

we can't blame strength and conditioning on soft tissue injuries  
SHO'NUFF : 8/30/2015 8:06 pm : link
but can we blame them for our guys being overpowered each and every game? Give them a year or two with Ereck Flowers, and he'll be the one getting pushed around.
RE: RE: the bit on manning  
micky : 8/30/2015 8:12 pm : link
In comment 12443687 JCin332 said:
Quote:
In comment 12443620 micky said:


Quote:


Unfortunately is gaining strength on that side of thinking.



Gaining strength by whom the mouthbreathers on BBI?

Unfortunately Eric after reading what you wrote about Eli I really would advise you take a break from posting for awhile...

LOL Nassib...holy shit this place has really jumped the shark..



lol i guess you just called eric a mouthbreather then
Nassib outplayed Eli last year in the preseason, too  
SHO'NUFF : 8/30/2015 8:17 pm : link
The same people wanted to start Nassib over Eli last year...ultimately, Eli would go on to have one of his best statistical years of his career
ehem  
Micko : 8/30/2015 8:20 pm : link
http://corner.bigblueinteractive.com/index.php?mode=2&thread=511801
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Nassib outplayed Eli last year in the preseason, too  
Vinny from Danbury : 8/30/2015 8:26 pm : link
In comment 12443702 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
The same people wanted to start Nassib over Eli last year...ultimately, Eli would go on to have one of his best statistical years of his career


Yup
The Cowboys o line  
Les in TO : 8/30/2015 8:26 pm : link
Won't need to go to ihop after the opener. If Kuhn is the starting Dt they will have a stack of pancakes with some schnitzel on top
As always, Eric provides a realistic assessment of the team  
baadbill : 8/30/2015 8:34 pm : link
despite what his heart wants him to say.

I just pray they find some way to avoid yet another 0-2 start. It's just too big a hole for a team like the Giants to overcome - and for the fans, the season is over before it even starts.
Some of you should..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/30/2015 8:39 pm : link
be old enough to know when to put stock into preseason results and when not to.

Eli never has a good or sharp preseason. If hew were a rookie, I might expect that kind of review, but after seeing him for years and still making those comments.

As a former poster used to say. Wow. Just Wow.
I totally agree with FatMan  
RollBlue : 8/30/2015 8:55 pm : link
I will also add while Dallas may put up 45 (they did just drop 14 against the mighty Vikings!) it's just as likely we get after Romo with some of Spag's blitz packages and knock Romo out for the season.
I have no issue with Eli...  
bradshaw44 : 8/30/2015 9:00 pm : link
He's played this way every preseason. And usually the first game or two. The interception to Ward on his first pass a few years ago is case in point.
......  
Micko : 8/30/2015 9:06 pm : link
Last I checked, this sport is based on competition and if we reach a point where Nassib is ready to replace Eli then that's what needs to happen. There is a reason Eli doesn't have a new contract yet. Use logic here.
This team may well suck  
AnnapolisMike : 8/30/2015 9:06 pm : link
And i have little doubt that Dallas will comfortably win the opener. But it is too early for Eric to be throwing in the towel. . Preseason has rarely been a reliable indicator of regular season success.

The offense barring injuries will be good. If the defense can come together this team should be in the hunt.

......  
Micko : 8/30/2015 9:17 pm : link
you never know. That's why it's fun. Until the end of September when you realize it's already over. That's not fun.
and once again  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:18 pm : link
we have fans who rather win the offseason or preseason super bowl than the one at the end of the year.

so last week we played without richburg, half gimp schwartz and randle, no cruz, no beason, no JPP, no beatty, no ayers, no behre.... and we are shocked we look out of sync?

our top wrs gave barely practiced at full speed. our oline has been shuffled around. defense lacks talent to begin with and has a list of guys at the infirmary.

we haven't looked good? No shit. means nothing. because if these guys don't come back, we aren't going to be good anyways.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:25 pm : link
I call it like I see it.

Eli's decision - even in a meaningless preseason game - is indefensible. It was the type of play you expect a third-string QB to make.
and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:27 pm : link
Eli still looks jumpy to me in the pocket. This is the same guy who stood in the pocket and took a beating in San Francisco. But if guys buzz by him now, he gets nervous feet.

Nassib isn't doing that.

I hope this changes in the regular season because Eli and Odell need to carry this team.
and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:31 pm : link
to be clear...if you guys actually read what I wrote...

All I said is make Eli earn his next contract.

They won't do that regardless. But it's a huge risk in my eyes.
RE: ...  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:32 pm : link
In comment 12443799 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I call it like I see it.

Eli's decision - even in a meaningless preseason game - is indefensible. It was the type of play you expect a third-string QB to make.


and he's going to make about 10-15 of then during the year.... much like 32 other QBs in the league.

If you harp on every bad throw, bad decision, missed tackle, blown assignment, etc.... your going to lose passion for the sport you love. don't drive yourself crazy, especially over a game that doesn't count.
RE: and  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:34 pm : link
In comment 12443809 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
to be clear...if you guys actually read what I wrote...

All I said is make Eli earn his next contract.

They won't do that regardless. But it's a huge risk in my eyes.


So what he did last year is trumped by preseason games? csnt say I agree.
Eric  
Matt M. : 8/30/2015 9:34 pm : link
I'm with FatMan. Eli (and the offense) has looked pretty much like this every preseason of his career. That holds for last year, as pointed out, when people here were actually questioning whether or not Nassib should start. What was the result? One of his 2 or 3 best seasons as a pro.

And, yes, Dallas very well may drop 45 on us. But, we may also drop 45 on them. Eli and OBJ will have to carry this team, as you say. But, those are 2 guys I am not very worried about, regardless how the preseason has gone.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:36 pm : link
The Giant were 6-10 last year.

It's been a long time since we've seen 4th quarter heroics from Eli.

2011 is a long time ago now.
The most damminh  
Dave on the UWS : 8/30/2015 9:36 pm : link
point that Eric makes is $10' million for Thomas an $17 million for Harris. These are the kinds of moves losing organizations make. Poor allocation of resources you can't make in today's NFL. I also feel a house cleaning coming. More to change the culture and atmosphere than anything else. There are.a lot of building blocks when you stop and think about it but here is a malaise hanging over this team that only a major shakeup can change
.....  
Micko : 8/30/2015 9:36 pm : link
Matt, if that's the case then there is just as much of a chance that he will suck right? Maybe we're all right.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:37 pm : link
I know you love the smell of Eli's jock strap, but he has to play better or he is not worth the contract.

He is being paid to win games, not miss wide open WR's and throw pick 6's.
Dave on the UWS  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:38 pm : link
$17 million for Harris might not necessarily be a bad idea if they had a coach who knew how to set up a return.
....  
Micko : 8/30/2015 9:38 pm : link
2 questions.

Would Eli command a 1st round pick in a trade? No way right?

Do u pay 20 million plus for a guy who can't?
RE: dep026  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:38 pm : link
In comment 12443821 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I know you love the smell of Eli's jock strap, but he has to play better or he is not worth the contract.

He is being paid to win games, not miss wide open WR's and throw pick 6's.


classy post from the guy that runs the site. I am sure your sun would be proud of that post.
Micko  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:40 pm : link
This coaching staff is going to be fired in January.

It should be up to the new head coach to decide who his QB should be.

If he wants Eli, extend him then.

If he doesn't, Franchise him and trade him. I'm sure they would get a decent haul for him if he has a good year. If he has a bad year, then we should be glad we didn't extend him.
If this season goes soith  
Dave on the UWS : 8/30/2015 9:40 pm : link
The right play with Eli is NOT to extend him. If we end up with a new coaching staff next year they should be able to decide who takes the snaps Eli or a high draft pick.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 9:40 pm : link
Very proud.
Eric that's my point  
Dave on the UWS : 8/30/2015 9:43 pm : link
Exactly. It's not who we have on the return it's the coach and the schemes. With Quimn running the show that's just pissimg money into the toilet.
Classy  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:48 pm : link
no wonder why trolls are allowed to post here....
I love Eli as much as anyone here,  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/30/2015 9:49 pm : link
but if we can get on WRs for dropped passes we can certainly get on Eli for some of the decisions he makes at times. Fair is fair.
I think the ideal situation  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:49 pm : link
would be for the Giants to get Eli, so we can suck even more next year.... and see how wonderful this board is.

We are worrying about fucking preseason games.
RE: I think the ideal situation  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/30/2015 9:50 pm : link
In comment 12443844 dep026 said:
Quote:
would be for the Giants to get Eli, so we can suck even more next year.... and see how wonderful this board is.

We are worrying about fucking preseason games.


It's not really just pre-season games. It's been the last few seasons, really.
Eli Manning preseason stats  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:53 pm : link
2014:
48% completion percentage
1 TD, 0 INTs

2012:
60%
1 TD, 1 INT

2011:
49% completion percentage
0 TDs, 2 INTs

2010:
57% completion percentage
1 TD, 1 INT


So in other words..... Eli is the least of our worries.
RE: RE: I think the ideal situation  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 9:54 pm : link
In comment 12443846 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 12443844 dep026 said:


Quote:


would be for the Giants to get Eli, so we can suck even more next year.... and see how wonderful this board is.

We are worrying about fucking preseason games.



It's not really just pre-season games. It's been the last few seasons, really.


The point that our fearless leader seems to be forgetting. If we have these amount of injuries..... it doestn matter if Eli is the MVP of the league, we are still going to be very bad. All I am trying to do is show that Eli usually sucks in the preseason, and bounces back just fine.
dep, you're letting this get to you more than you should  
David in LA : 8/30/2015 9:55 pm : link
look up the term 'reverse jinx'.
If the coaching staff is fired at the end of the season  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/30/2015 9:55 pm : link
(which they should be if this is another playoff-less season), it will be interesting to see how everything plays out in re: contracts.
RE: dep, you're letting this get to you more than you should  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:00 pm : link
In comment 12443853 David in LA said:
Quote:
look up the term 'reverse jinx'.


haha, unlike most posters here, its not getting to me whatsoever. I understand if our team is hurt this bad, and wont return, we are going to be bad.

And when you are missing the majority of your best players, it affects every one else on the team. But if they do come back, I actually think we can surprise too many people.

What I wont do, like many people here, is be influenced by preseason games where people are missing. Oh no Eli threw a pick. Oh no, eli missed a WR. My god, its tiresome and nauseating. I forgot that he is the only QB who makes bad throws a few times again. Every other QB completes 95% of their passes. It's literally like people dont watch other games. Every QB in the league throws bad picks, every QB misses open guys.

Its called football. Most just dont understand it.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 8/30/2015 10:07 pm : link
1) I really think it is classless to be ripping Eli to this degree based on the preseason. If they come out of the gate and lay an egg, then let the complaints begin in earnest.

2) I think if their holding back Schwartz in preseason pays off and he actually plays, this OL looks a lot better. When he was healthy, last year and this year, the entire OL looked much better.

3) I agree this D has problems and will not be very good. However, I think part of that is Spags' system. He is very reliant on very good DL play. The Giants aren't going to dominate up front, even if they are decent. The rest of the D has to account for that. Right now, I think their biggest problems are a 2nd DE (more in the next point) and no S that is very strong in coverage. If they sign Brown, they have about 5 decent S, but all are best suited for SS at this point.

4) DE - I think Odi should start. He has the most upside and has been the only one to fundamentally set the edge. I honestly don't know who should start opposite him. I was hoping Wynn or Moore would have shown more. But, I do know this experiment with Jenkins at DE should be scrapped. He played decently at DT, but offers nothing at DE.

5) DT - For the umpteenth time, Kuhn should not even be on the roster, so how is he starting?!

6) S - Collins, I think will be a very good S, but is likely to make his share of mistakes. That would be fine if we had a solid FS. Right now, based on a gut instinct really, I think Taylor should start assuming he's healthy. I would also use Merriweather as a 3rd S if they go with that look and he may end up starting at some point, as may Brown. But, none of them are great at protecting the deep part of the field.

7) I also am optimistic that both coordinators are playing very basic looks right now. I expect more from both once the season starts.

8) ST - Can they replace Weatherford adequately at this point? Do they need to? As for the the PR/KR teams, I think this is 100% on Quinn. Every year for the last 5 or 6 years they have had guys come in specifically to return kicks. Almost every one they have put back there has been pedestrian. This is Quinn's coaching, personnel decisions, and schemes. He should have been gone a long time ago. At least, other than the 1 PR for the TD, their punt coverage looked pretty good. They have decent ST players on this roster.
I will add  
Matt M. : 8/30/2015 10:11 pm : link
that even with JPP the run D would have looked this bad. He is notoriously terrible at setting the edge. Actually, he's not bad at it; he just doesn't do it. He crashes hard inside just about all the time. Yes, he is one guy who can rush the passer. But, even at that, he massed most of his sacks in the last 4 games against bad teams with nothing on the line but a new deal. It is not like we were likely to get the dominating force of a few years ago, even without the injury.
Matt  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 10:13 pm : link
How is it "ripping" Eli simply to suggest that he earn his next contract first?

The Giants already made him an extremely rich man with his last contract. He's been paid for past performance.

Since 2011 - clearly his best year - he's had one so-so season, his worst year, and then one of his best.

I'm hoping the needle is pointing up on him, but he's 34 and he's not playing particularly well this preseason. He still could still have a monster season, a so-so season, or a bad year in 2015.

I think this is a moot debate because he will be extended soon regardless.

But some hot coaching prospect might not want to come here if he feels he is "saddled" with Eli in 2016 and beyond. There is a risk here either way.

There are Giants fans out there who think Eli sucks. But there are also fans out there who think he can do no wrong. It's not a black-or-white situation.
He started to earn  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:20 pm : link
his contract last year, and nothing he does the preseason is going to rise/or lower his value. Its god damn preseason. I showed you the stats from his last 5 preseason, they are awful.

if he misses throws in the regular season, throws a shit load of bad picks, and is the reason why we win 5-6 games...... sure you can revisit his contract value and question it. But doing so on preseason is just flat out asinine. The Giants probably didnt even scout what the Jets do, they dont look for their weaknesses. They are running certain plays to see what people can do. I would be shocked if they are running 25% of the offense now. and again if a one leg Randle is your number 2 and Preston parker is your number 3, where the hell are you going anyways?

If the giants suck again, the first thing they need to do is cut ties with JPP, Cruz, Beason, Taylor, Prince and all the other guys who are constantly hurt and injured. The ones who are constantly missing practice, missing games during the year, etc....

Those guys have more of a negative impact than anyone else on the team. You need to field a team thats healthy and has been getting all the practice reps in order to be successful.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 10:23 pm : link
What are you more upset at? That I am criticizing Eli in the preseason or suggesting they don't extend him now?
RE: dep026  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:28 pm : link
In comment 12443879 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
What are you more upset at? That I am criticizing Eli in the preseason or suggesting they don't extend him now?


:looks at self:

Not upset. Just in awe why people are putting so much stock in his preseason play year after year when its terrible year after year. You would think people would learn this by now. But I guess not.

Let me ask you. What are you more upset about. That I proved that Eli's preseason play does not correlate to his regular season play or that no matter what Eli does, the reality is the Giants will be bad regardless.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 10:34 pm : link
You have ALWAYS had a knee-jerk reaction this website to ANY criticism of Eli Manning. It's never his fault in your eyes. It diminishes what you say.

Year after year on this site, in preseason game preview after preseason game preview for 20 years, I have minimized the importance of preseason games. It's on record. Everyone who has read my stuff knows I've said it.

So if Eli is 4-of-16 with a bunch of drops and some overthrows, I don't make much of it.

I also don't get terribly bent out of shape over the over-throw to Beckham.

But when a 12 year veteran makes a horrific, rookie mistake like throwing a short pass over the middle with 16 seconds on the clock - and this is a guy who has a history of alternating good seasons with bad seasons with a lot of bonehead mistakes - it raises a level of concern.

His decision to throw that ball was beyond stupid. It was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen any Giant make.
dep26  
JoeyBigBlue : 8/30/2015 10:37 pm : link
All Eric is saying is that if we have another 6-10 season and we have to blow up the team, a team with not much depth, it may not be wise to spend $20 million dollars of your salary cap on an aging QB. I love Eli, but I have to be a Giants fan first. This team as currently constructed is not a playoff team. We have to give our self options just in case Mara blows the whole thing up, which is very good possibility if we miss the playoffs.
RE: dep026  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:44 pm : link
In comment 12443887 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You have ALWAYS had a knee-jerk reaction this website to ANY criticism of Eli Manning. It's never his fault in your eyes. It diminishes what you say.

Year after year on this site, in preseason game preview after preseason game preview for 20 years, I have minimized the importance of preseason games. It's on record. Everyone who has read my stuff knows I've said it.

So if Eli is 4-of-16 with a bunch of drops and some overthrows, I don't make much of it.

I also don't get terribly bent out of shape over the over-throw to Beckham.

But when a 12 year veteran makes a horrific, rookie mistake like throwing a short pass over the middle with 16 seconds on the clock - and this is a guy who has a history of alternating good seasons with bad seasons with a lot of bonehead mistakes - it raises a level of concern.

His decision to throw that ball was beyond stupid. It was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen any Giant make.


and what my knee jerk reaction? That if we are as injured during the regular season as we are now, its not worth getting all worked up about because we are going to stink anwyays. And that judging Eli on preseason games is meaningless because history has shown he doesnt play well in the preseason?

Where is the reaction? You made a comment that he has to earn his contract. And are skeptical he wont because of a preseason game. You are the one over reacting and not putting things into perspective.

How about Eli gets his OLine and his WRs healthy before we judge him. Like I said, he could easily throw for 4,500 yards this year and another 30 TDs, and we can still go 5-11. Is that reason to get rid of him?
RE: dep26  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:47 pm : link
In comment 12443890 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
All Eric is saying is that if we have another 6-10 season and we have to blow up the team, a team with not much depth, it may not be wise to spend $20 million dollars of your salary cap on an aging QB. I love Eli, but I have to be a Giants fan first. This team as currently constructed is not a playoff team. We have to give our self options just in case Mara blows the whole thing up, which is very good possibility if we miss the playoffs.


There will be close to 20 QBs in the NFl next year that are making over 16 million. Its the price you pay for them. And cap space means a shit of beans if you overpay people who arent as good as their contract appears.

Here's the bigger issue. Lets say Cruz misses a handful of games (a possibility now), Prince misses games again for being hurt. Beatty doesnt recover. Beason misses games. schwartz misses games, JPP doesnt come back...

Wouldnt it be smarter to get rid of those players first because you know..... they are ALWAYS hurt? What good is your team if you rely more on guys who are always hurt than guys who play every game at a pretty high level?
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 10:51 pm : link
Stats are meaningless without context.

$100 million QBs are paid to carry their team. Eli hasn't carried this team since 2011. That year, he had no defense and no running game. He had Victor and Hakeem and Jake.

You and I disagree on this. You always think it is the fault of the surrounding talent. I think the surrounding talent has had a big role in this, but so has Eli.

I don't think it is that controversial to make an athlete earn his next contract.

Like I said, it's a moot discussion. I hope it doesn't come back to bite the Giants in the ass. I'm rooting for Eli just as much as anyone.
If the Giants are starting completely over next season  
Dave in Hoboken : 8/30/2015 10:51 pm : link
it actually makes some sense to not extend Eli. *shrug*
this is the whole point for a 12 yr vet  
micky : 8/30/2015 10:53 pm : link
Not preseason...and I agree with it. If he's still doing this rookie mistake, then when it matters, where this year he can't afford to do it needing utmost to carry this team, this can cost a few games.
Quote:
But when a 12 year veteran makes a horrific, rookie mistake like throwing a short pass over the middle with 16 seconds on the clock - and this is a guy who has a history of alternating good seasons with bad seasons with a lot of bonehead mistakes - it raises a level of concern.
RE: Nassib outplayed Eli last year in the preseason, too  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/30/2015 10:55 pm : link
In comment 12443702 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
The same people wanted to start Nassib over Eli last year...ultimately, Eli would go on to have one of his best statistical years of his career


Exactly. The part about Manning/Nassib is the most moronic thing I've ever read from Eric.
RE: dep026  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:56 pm : link
In comment 12443906 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Stats are meaningless without context.

$100 million QBs are paid to carry their team. Eli hasn't carried this team since 2011. That year, he had no defense and no running game. He had Victor and Hakeem and Jake.

You and I disagree on this. You always think it is the fault of the surrounding talent. I think the surrounding talent has had a big role in this, but so has Eli.

I don't think it is that controversial to make an athlete earn his next contract.

Like I said, it's a moot discussion. I hope it doesn't come back to bite the Giants in the ass. I'm rooting for Eli just as much as anyone.


Ive said this before and Ill ask this again. Which QBs in the league carry their teams to the playoffs without getting significant help from their teammates.

I would put Luck up there, and maybe Brady (even though he plays for the greatest coach probably in NFL history). Either way, Eli is not as good as those two players.

Guys like Rodgers, Peyton, Ben, Romo have immense talent surrounding them. Eli has 1. If you expect Eli and OBJ to carry you into the playoffs, then you have higher hopes than I do. Ruben Randle wouldnt have been a top 4 WR on teams like Packers and Broncos last year. Preston Parker doesnt even make their team. We know the OLine is dreadful.

I dont care if he makes 5 dollars or 100 million dollars, you cant expect a player or 2 to carry a team. And if you dont think he deserves to get paid next year, thats your opinion. But when guys like cutler, griffin, Kap, and other shitty QBs are making 17-18 million a year, he has every right to ask for more. You know why?

Because he is better than them.
RE: dep026  
Les in TO : 8/30/2015 10:57 pm : link
In comment 12443906 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Stats are meaningless without context.

$100 million QBs are paid to carry their team. Eli hasn't carried this team since 2011. That year, he had no defense and no running game. He had Victor and Hakeem and Jake.

You and I disagree on this. You always think it is the fault of the surrounding talent. I think the surrounding talent has had a big role in this, but so has Eli.

I don't think it is that controversial to make an athlete earn his next contract.

Like I said, it's a moot discussion. I hope it doesn't come back to bite the Giants in the ass. I'm rooting for Eli just as much as anyone.
+1
RE: RE: dep26  
JoeyBigBlue : 8/30/2015 10:57 pm : link
In comment 12443899 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12443890 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


All Eric is saying is that if we have another 6-10 season and we have to blow up the team, a team with not much depth, it may not be wise to spend $20 million dollars of your salary cap on an aging QB. I love Eli, but I have to be a Giants fan first. This team as currently constructed is not a playoff team. We have to give our self options just in case Mara blows the whole thing up, which is very good possibility if we miss the playoffs.



There will be close to 20 QBs in the NFl next year that are making over 16 million. Its the price you pay for them. And cap space means a shit of beans if you overpay people who arent as good as their contract appears.

Here's the bigger issue. Lets say Cruz misses a handful of games (a possibility now), Prince misses games again for being hurt. Beatty doesnt recover. Beason misses games. schwartz misses games, JPP doesnt come back...

Wouldnt it be smarter to get rid of those players first because you know..... they are ALWAYS hurt? What good is your team if you rely more on guys who are always hurt than guys who play every game at a pretty high level?


Prince and JPP don't have a contract pass this season. Beatty, Beason, and Schwartz can all be cut on their current deals. If you resign Eli now and give him 21 mil year, that's 21 mil you are stuck with for the foreseeable future. If you let the season play out and Eli sucks or the Giants completely suck, it gives you the flexibility if you decide to rebuild and go with a younger QB. I love Eli and want to see him finish his career here but I can't take another 6-10 season. Yes the defense is God awful, but a true franchise QB doesn't have 3 losing seasons in a row. He finds ways to win.
RE: this is the whole point for a 12 yr vet  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 10:59 pm : link
In comment 12443911 micky said:
Quote:
Not preseason...and I agree with it. If he's still doing this rookie mistake, then when it matters, where this year he can't afford to do it needing utmost to carry this team, this can cost a few games.


Quote:


But when a 12 year veteran makes a horrific, rookie mistake like throwing a short pass over the middle with 16 seconds on the clock - and this is a guy who has a history of alternating good seasons with bad seasons with a lot of bonehead mistakes - it raises a level of concern.



And heres my point. Every Qb makes these mistakes a few times a year. People just dont realize it. I saw Peyton have the time run out on him when he threw in the middle of the field last year with no timeout. They are mistakes. EVERY QB makes them. Now if he does it every game, sure you can raise a point. But people act like Eli is the only one who makes shitty passes and decisions in the NFL. EVERY QB does.
shockeyisthebest8056  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 10:59 pm : link
I didn't say start Nassib over Manning.

I said Nassib was out-playing Eli this preseason (he is).

I said the new coaching staff may not want the then 35-year old Manning depending on how he plays in 2015 (not an unreasonable assessment).

It's implied that I think Nassib may be a good future starter in this league (I do).

But I never said bench Manning for Nassib.
RE: RE: RE: dep26  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 11:02 pm : link
In comment 12443928 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:

Prince and JPP don't have a contract pass this season. Beatty, Beason, and Schwartz can all be cut on their current deals. If you resign Eli now and give him 21 mil year, that's 21 mil you are stuck with for the foreseeable future. If you let the season play out and Eli sucks or the Giants completely suck, it gives you the flexibility if you decide to rebuild and go with a younger QB. I love Eli and want to see him finish his career here but I can't take another 6-10 season. Yes the defense is God awful, but a true franchise QB doesn't have 3 losing seasons in a row. He finds ways to win.


And if you let all those players go and fill them with guys who actualyl play and practice every week..... maybe, jsut maybe the team plays better.

And again, your guys expectation of QB play is the most unrealistic I have ever seen. Last year was probably Eli's best season ever, and we went 6-10.

So again, I ask thsi question. If he throws for 4,500 yards and 30 plus TDs and we go 5-11.... are you going to get rid of him because the rest of team sucks? Its just asinine to me.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 11:04 pm : link
You are convinced that Eli is one of the best QBs in the NFL.

I think he was the best QB in the playoffs in 2007. I think he was arguably the NFL MVP in 2011.

I think he had a bit of a renaissance in 2014 after a horrible season where HE played awful. You still won't admit to that.

I expect a $100 million quarterback to lift his entire team, especially if he has Odell Beckham.

I'm still optimistic about Eli this year because he has Odell and hopefully Victor Cruz and a QB-friendly system. But if he has another so-so year or worse and he still wants to take up 15 percent of the team's cap, it's probably time to move on.
RE: shockeyisthebest8056  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 11:04 pm : link
In comment 12443933 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I didn't say start Nassib over Manning.

I said Nassib was out-playing Eli this preseason (he is).

I said the new coaching staff may not want the then 35-year old Manning depending on how he plays in 2015 (not an unreasonable assessment).

It's implied that I think Nassib may be a good future starter in this league (I do).

But I never said bench Manning for Nassib.


Ok Eric, here's a hypothetical question. Eli tanks thsi year, we get rid of TC, and they decide not to resign Eli.

First off, the new coach may want to bring in his OWN QB, making Nassib useless. The QB is going to have to learn the offense, which would take a rookie a few years to get down. Or lets assume it Nassib.... do you think he will have success if his top 3 WRs rarely practice, he is missing 2/5ths of his OLine weekly, and his WRs are among the league leaders in drops? Do you really think we are going to better off?
RE: dep026  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 11:07 pm : link
In comment 12443942 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You are convinced that Eli is one of the best QBs in the NFL.


Ok Ill bite. Based off last year, what QBs do you think are better than Eli.

I got Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Peyton (only if he is healthy), and Ben.

After that, I wouldnt take a single QB over him, and that makes him one of the best in the league.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 11:07 pm : link
Quote:
So again, I ask thsi question. If he throws for 4,500 yards and 30 plus TDs and we go 5-11.... are you going to get rid of him because the rest of team sucks? Its just asinine to me.


Probably not, but again, it depends on the context. Did he make big plays in big moments? How many interceptions did he throw? Was he truly the victim of a bad running game and defense.

The stats don't mean much without context.

And this is not about "me" getting rid of him, but the next coaching staff have the flexibility to make their own decision rather than it being imposed on them by a GM who hasn't done a good job in recent years.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 11:10 pm : link
Quote:
Ok Ill bite. Based off last year, what QBs do you think are better than Eli.

I got Brady, Rodgers, Luck, Peyton (only if he is healthy), and Ben.

After that, I wouldnt take a single QB over him, and that makes him one of the best in the league.


You're digressing from my main point. Again, my argument is to wait and see how Eli plays in 2015, not to rank QB performances in 2014.

Eli has already been paid handsomely for his performance in 2014.
RE: dep026  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 11:12 pm : link
In comment 12443950 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Probably not, but again, it depends on the context. Did he make big plays in big moments? How many interceptions did he throw? Was he truly the victim of a bad running game and defense.


Context is always important. Remember that shitty game Eli had against SF? He was awful. Do you remember that Donnell and Randle both dropped passes in the end zone that would have given them the lead before hsi 5th INT? Amazing how things change when you put context in. How about Cruz's 3 drops agaisnt Arizona in the 4th that lead to their come back. Or his go ahead drive against Dallas that gave them the lead with 3:00 to go only to have the shitty defense give it away. Or his game tying drive against Jax, only for the defense to blow it.

He had some good moments last year that reminded of us of the old Eli, only to be let down by his teammates. It doesnt mean he was perfect. But you said you have to put things in context.....and there are some examples of what people forget when talking about him.
dep026  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 11:14 pm : link
Quote:
First off, the new coach may want to bring in his OWN QB, making Nassib useless. The QB is going to have to learn the offense, which would take a rookie a few years to get down. Or lets assume it Nassib.... do you think he will have success if his top 3 WRs rarely practice, he is missing 2/5ths of his OLine weekly, and his WRs are among the league leaders in drops? Do you really think we are going to better off?


Nassib may be the better pro quarterback in 2016. We don't know yet. He certainly has a stronger arm and more mobility. He's looked pretty tough in the pocket and had a history at Syracuse of 4th quarter heroics. Can he be another Eli in his prime? That would be asking a lot. Most QBs following legends struggle.

If a new coaching staff comes in, however, and Manning had a bad year at age 35. One could make a strong argument to go with the younger, much cheaper Nassib who has a big upside. But that should be up to the new coaching staff.

What I suggested does not prevent them from picking Eli or Nassib.
And remember one more thing Eric  
dep026 : 8/30/2015 11:15 pm : link
and this is something we can agree on....

Our defense could be that bad to the point where we become one dimensional or to the point where we are out of games by half time. No QB ever is good enough to overcome defenses that give up 30-35 points per game. You are already claiming that Dallas will put 45 on us opening night.
Eric... this is a quote:  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 8/30/2015 11:23 pm : link
"The expectation is that 2015 will be one of Eli Manning’s very best seasons, that he would once again approach his 2011 level of play. The early returns have been disappointing."

It's the fucking preseason! Who in their right mind would in any way judge Eli Manning's 2015 season (which hasn't begun yet) or his future prospects with this organization based on games that don't count? I expect better from you than that... you seem to have gotten way too emotional over a preseason game.

And like the post I originally quoted stated, Ryan Nassib looked better than Eli Manning LAST preseason. I'd argue the gap between their play was even larger last preseason. I'm glad Ryan Nassib played well, but that should be the end of that discussion. To compare what he did to anything Eli Manning has done or will do is silly. Eli Manning has earned the right to not be judged on ANYTHING he does in the preseason, regardless of how stupid you think one throw in particular was.
RE: dep026  
bradshaw44 : 8/30/2015 11:24 pm : link
In comment 12443831 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Very proud.


Eric,

Even with a complete OL last year, Eli put up great numbers. Imagine if the OL had been semi serviceable.
this entire discussion is pure idiocy  
Dave in MD : 8/30/2015 11:24 pm : link
another reason to not visit this site anymore. Just utter crap. Nassib better than Eli. Sure. It's like you've never watched football before. Sean Bennett was Jim Brown too.
*without  
bradshaw44 : 8/30/2015 11:25 pm : link
..
RE: Some of you should..  
Boy Cord : 8/30/2015 11:30 pm : link
In comment 12443729 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
be old enough to know when to put stock into preseason results and when not to.

Eli never has a good or sharp preseason. If hew were a rookie, I might expect that kind of review, but after seeing him for years and still making those comments.

As a former poster used to say. Wow. Just Wow.


Which poster was that?
RE: this entire discussion is pure idiocy  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 11:34 pm : link
In comment 12443969 Dave in MD said:
Quote:
another reason to not visit this site anymore. Just utter crap. Nassib better than Eli. Sure. It's like you've never watched football before. Sean Bennett was Jim Brown too.


Wow David. Not sure what I've done to you to spark such recent venom. I hope things are going well with you in your personal life.
For this year  
giantgiantfan : 8/30/2015 11:46 pm : link
Eli is the least of our worries. This defense might get abused in Dallas, thank god Demarco is gone. And our offensive line might not give us enough to hang with them in a high scoring game.

On the plus side, and I know every year is different, but here are Eli Mannings stats against Dallas last year:

6 TDs, 1 INT, 576 Yards, 50 completions to 73 attempts (68% completion). Thats pretty damn good folks. Eli's arm was our offense in those games. So it goes back to Defense and Offensive Lines.
Mr. Editor  
jbeintherockies : 8/30/2015 11:51 pm : link
After reading your review, it doesn't sound like there is much talent on the roster.

If that is the case, why does Reese get a pass?

Since Reese took the reins, the talent on the team has gone down, not up. I think Reese should get just as much of the blame as the coaching staff.
jbeintherockies  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/30/2015 11:51 pm : link
He doesn't get a pass from me.

Ask Mr. Mara and Mr. Tisch.
Eric, you've gone and done it now  
HomerJones45 : 8/30/2015 11:52 pm : link
you've touched the third rail, and you are going to get burned.

You of all people should know that it is impossible to have a rational discussion concerning certain players.
Sobering read,  
rocco8112 : 8/31/2015 12:12 am : link

I am not sure I am as down on the team as the tone of the article though. Especially since the season has not even started yet.

The way the Giants and the league is now I would be equally unsurprised to see the Giants win or lose week one by multiple scores. In my mind there is almost no way to predict.

Regarding this past game, which again was a practice game, am I the only one who thought the O starters were not that bad? Granted the TD drive was aided by the opposition, but that is a common occurrence in the NFL and to me it had the feel of a regular season pro drive. Take away the overthrow and the absurd pick and it is a fine tune-up for the O. I am also excited for our stable of backs. Different types of runners who bring different things to the table.

To talk about that pick, and it was fucking stupid, that is Eli. One thing about 10 is he will do crazy reckless things. This is a QB who has literally tried left handed shovel passes under pressure, during real games and I think this has happened multiple times. Guy makes crazy decisions from time to time. This is nothing new and the flip side of this is what has allowed for some of the greatest plays in Giants or NFL history. Guy is a gunslinger, that will not be changing and I sometimes wonder, looking back at the past decade plus, if we as Giants fans would want it to change.

I also think about something I have heard Gilbride say in multiple interviews. He said flat out Eli does not care about stats. His example was the if the Giants are down a lot and need desperation low succses throws to get back in it, Eli will sling it without regard for the consequences. He figures we will lose anyway so what is the difference. The way he described it made it seem this was a rare or unheard trait in QB's. To me this was insight into how Eli thinks and I think an element of that was in play with that ridiculous decision and throw. Also, I would say again that pick six did not count for the standings.

The D is going to suck. It has for awhile now. This is the D rebuild and I hope to see improvement ad the year goes o and some evidence that some of these younger guys can play.


Eli  
JohnVB : 8/31/2015 12:13 am : link
It's odd to me that the owner of this site would be so flippant about the best QB in the history of this franchise. Let's look at the other teams in this division over the last 15 years:

Eagles -- haven't contended for a championship since Mcnabb despite all of the Kelly hype.

Skins -- spent 15 picks including 6 first rounders since '00 for a total of 3 playoff appearances.

Cowboys -- 5 playoff appearances since '00 with 2 wins despite having one of the most talented rosters according to media pundits in the early/mid '00's.

Eli has proven that he has the ability to will this team to a championship, unlike any other QB within the division over the last 15 years. Last year, Eli showed statistically that he has the potential to have his best football in front of him in the new system.

Considering Nassib as a replacement and/or not extending Eli stinks of the same situation Simms went through -- and how did that work out? Approximately 10 years of shitty QB play and franchise uncertainty year to year despite talent on the defensive side of the ball.

The fact that the owner of this site, or anyone for that matter, would consider not extending Eli is blasphemous as far as I'm concerned. He may or may not be a top 5 QB in the league in your eyes, but he's definitely a franchise QB -- and those are extremely difficult to come by in the NFL. Ask the countless franchises that have blown multiple drafts to find one.
JohnVB  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/31/2015 12:21 am : link
I think you are missing my point.

Barring a playoff season (which I think looks unlikely), I think Coughlin is gone.

The new coaching staff should have the option to determine who they want their QB to be. If Eli plays well in 2015, I'm sure they will want to keep him. If he does not play well in 2015, I am not so sure they will want to commit $100 million to a 35-year QB whose best days may be behind him.

RE: RE: dep026  
ryanmkeane : 8/31/2015 12:31 am : link
In comment 12443955 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12443950 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:



Probably not, but again, it depends on the context. Did he make big plays in big moments? How many interceptions did he throw? Was he truly the victim of a bad running game and defense.




Context is always important. Remember that shitty game Eli had against SF? He was awful. Do you remember that Donnell and Randle both dropped passes in the end zone that would have given them the lead before hsi 5th INT? Amazing how things change when you put context in. How about Cruz's 3 drops agaisnt Arizona in the 4th that lead to their come back. Or his go ahead drive against Dallas that gave them the lead with 3:00 to go only to have the shitty defense give it away. Or his game tying drive against Jax, only for the defense to blow it.

He had some good moments last year that reminded of us of the old Eli, only to be let down by his teammates. It doesnt mean he was perfect. But you said you have to put things in context.....and there are some examples of what people forget when talking about him.


Exactly. The fact that the Giants went 6-10 last season has literally 0% to do with Eli, possibly negative percent. I agree that we shouldn't just blindly give him an extension, but he absolutely deserves it. And there's no way in hell that "early returns" can be based on pre season garbage games where literally nobody tries and play calls are entirely vanilla to the point that it's almost pointless to watch. Yes, the pick 6 was a bad throw, but who the hell cares if the game doesn't count? He might not have thrown it otherwise.
Need to make decision on Nassib too  
HomerJones45 : 8/31/2015 12:32 am : link
he's in the 3rd year of a 4 year deal. An extension for Eli probably means Nassib is gone after next season which means we are spending a high pick on a qb in the 2017 draft and Nassib was a wasted pick. Not the end of the world but there is more than a monetary cost if you think there might be something there with Nassib.
HomerJones45  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/31/2015 12:34 am : link
Yup...if they extend Eli, they need to trade Nassib before he hits the open market.

There should be quite a market for him.
RE: JohnVB  
JohnVB : 8/31/2015 12:39 am : link
In comment 12443997 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think you are missing my point.

Barring a playoff season (which I think looks unlikely), I think Coughlin is gone.

The new coaching staff should have the option to determine who they want their QB to be. If Eli plays well in 2015, I'm sure they will want to keep him. If he does not play well in 2015, I am not so sure they will want to commit $100 million to a 35-year QB whose best days may be behind him.


Assuming that plays out, they should have the option to determine the QB of the franchise. But who would that be? Some random top rated QB from the '16 draft, who will most likely bust compared to Eli? Nassib, who hasn't proven anything in a meaningful game? Some castoff from another team?

Another coach will have limited options if he is truly dedicated to winning. This isn't the Colts situation, because there isn't a surefire franchise QB waiting for us in the draft and we aren't coming off an old, injured franchise QB closing in on the end of his career.

IMO, if we tank and ownership goes in another direction, the new staff is going to be reluctant to get rid of Eli Manning. There's too much potential that his replacement will not live up to expectations and Eli goes on to have success with another team. How would you feel about that result? How would ownership feel about that result?
RE: JohnVB  
giantgiantfan : 8/31/2015 12:42 am : link
In comment 12443997 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think you are missing my point.

Barring a playoff season (which I think looks unlikely), I think Coughlin is gone.

The new coaching staff should have the option to determine who they want their QB to be. If Eli plays well in 2015, I'm sure they will want to keep him. If he does not play well in 2015, I am not so sure they will want to commit $100 million to a 35-year QB whose best days may be behind him.


This is a fair point, but there is a lot time and variables involved in this. I still believe Eli will perform well as long as the offensive line holds and the running game improves from last year.
Simms  
HomerJones45 : 8/31/2015 12:44 am : link
Quote:
Considering Nassib as a replacement and/or not extending Eli stinks of the same situation Simms went through -- and how did that work out? Approximately 10 years of shitty QB play and franchise uncertainty year to year despite talent on the defensive side of the ball.
If you sign Manning to an extension, you are potentially creating the Simms situation. Simms was 38 when he retired and if you recall, we had lost Hostetler to free agency because he wanted to start and didn't want to wait around. We were then forced to draft a qb which we did in the supplemental draft. If we had cut bait with Simms after the 1991 season, Hostetler would have become the undisputed #1 in 1992 and we would have been set at qb for another 5 or 6 years.

It's a hard choice and hardly blasphemous to contemplate.
RE: Simms  
JohnVB : 8/31/2015 1:12 am : link
In comment 12444005 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Considering Nassib as a replacement and/or not extending Eli stinks of the same situation Simms went through -- and how did that work out? Approximately 10 years of shitty QB play and franchise uncertainty year to year despite talent on the defensive side of the ball.

If you sign Manning to an extension, you are potentially creating the Simms situation. Simms was 38 when he retired and if you recall, we had lost Hostetler to free agency because he wanted to start and didn't want to wait around. We were then forced to draft a qb which we did in the supplemental draft. If we had cut bait with Simms after the 1991 season, Hostetler would have become the undisputed #1 in 1992 and we would have been set at qb for another 5 or 6 years.

It's a hard choice and hardly blasphemous to contemplate.


Nassib is not Hostetler. Hostetler had won a SB before it became an issue. Nassib hasn't even taken a snap in a meaningful game.

If the Giants dumped Manning in favor of Nassib, it would be even worse than the treatment of Simms.
Rivers/Roeth  
JohnVB : 8/31/2015 1:17 am : link
What have the Chargers won the last 5 years? What have the Steelers won the last 5 years? Both franchises just gave their QB's huge deals because they know they can't easily replace franchise QB's. And we're talking about potentially dumping Eli for Nassib?
Confusing thread  
weaverpsu : 8/31/2015 1:30 am : link
I'm most confused by people thinking Nassib is a good QB. My eyes tell me otherwise. And did I miss something about the Simms/Hostetler comparison? I don't recall Hostetler achieving greatness elsewhere..
I think the reason Dep is so defensive is, we heard all the Eli bashing we could handle last year in preseason. People saying he was suddenly done and washed up and lost his arm strength. Blah, blah, blah. He played like a top 10 QB last year w/zero weapons for almost the entire season and a crappy offensive line and a defense that was crippled from injuries. Enough already. Eli isn't great, he isn't top 5 in the league, but he's pretty damn good! Nassib lol, give me a break! He's got a ways to go my friends.
Eli is being Eli...  
Strip-Sack : 8/31/2015 6:35 am : link
and some fans are sick and tired of the same "bone headed", WTF throws, they've had enough....I get that, they're often brutal and can happen at the worst times. As a matter of fact, they happen most often when the offense/talent surrounding him is at its worst as it certainly was in 2012 and 2013. In many ways, Eli is the true "honey badger" as Eli just doesn't care and will ALWAYS "make" the next play in his mind. This mindset has led to some of the greatest moments in NY Giants history as well as contributed to making things worse in the dark offensive times of 12/13. Eric is on record as one (of many) who questioned whether it was time to consider if Eli had started to decline after 2013 and if it could be time to start looking beyond.

While I can understand the groans and gripes as I found myself saying "c'mon Eli WTF" a couple times too many on Sat night, I also feel very, very lucky that Eli is the QB of the NY Giants and, yes, he very much deserves a brand new contract at the going rate for elite franchise QBs. I have come to except his faults along with his strengths as he, IMO, has proven himself time and time again to be the dead eyed, money QB when it matters most and that doesn't come along often. It's preseason and the team is still coming together, including the QB...it will most likely take longer than hoped for but, I fully expect the offense to get it together once (or, in the injury cursed Giants case, if) they have their full complement of weapons and the Oline can actually field the sane 5 players for more than a game.
Except....  
Strip-Sack : 8/31/2015 6:37 am : link
should be accept...ha, too early.
Wow.  
AcidTest : 8/31/2015 7:47 am : link
Lots of bitterness and anger. Nothing is surer to bring out the knives than a discussion of Eli.

My guess is he gets extended. It's tough to win in this league without a franchise QB. Just a little south we saw Chip Kelly try and move his entire team this offseason to get MM. Then he traded Foles for Bradford, a guy who's torn the same ACL twice. Washington has RGIII, and all that entails, and has been looking for a QB for nearly twenty-five years, using a raft load of picks on Shuler, Johnson, Ramsay, Cambpell, and RGIII. Somebody posted all the picks they've used over the last twenty-five years or so for QBs. It's staggering.

In our own city, the Jets are starting Ryan Fitzpatrick. Go a little west, and Buffalo has pretty much already given up on E.J. Manuel. They are about to start Tyrod Taylor. A little further west, and there is Cleveland, which has Johnny Football, and all that entails, although he has shown a little promise lately.

Eric is making way too much about Eli's admittedly terrible throw to Jones that produced a pick six. OK. It was bad. But a two time winning SB MVP QB shouldn't be judged based on preseason, let alone one throw. The concerns about this team based on its preseason performance are real. We have questions on the OL. at TE, LB, DT, and the secondary at a minimum. But those concerns don't involve Eli, especially given the promise he's already shown in McAdoo's system. I get that we can't pay for past performance, especially given the money he'll be seeking, but there is every indication he'll do well going forward in this offense.

That having been said, if the team tanks, Coughlin will be fired. An argument can be made that the new coach should decide what to do with Eli, and not be saddled with a large extension. Of course, the new coach might also want to keep Eli, but maybe you leave the question unresolved. The Giants can always franchise him in order to let Nassib develop.

What would I do? Probably extend him, although it's all about the money. If an extension isn't possible, I would use the franchise tag. Eli isn't the problem with this team. Not at all. He'd have to be terrible this year, during the regular season, for me to change my mind.
It was a horrible throw and decision from Eli.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 8/31/2015 7:58 am : link
But he's the least of our concerns. Our OL is shaky, Cruz is a mystery, and our defense is God awful. I don't think it's an exaggeration to state that if this defense doesn't get its house in order soon, we're going to be giving up multiple 40 point games.
Nassib  
AcidTest : 8/31/2015 8:06 am : link
may be the best reason to franchise and not extend Eli, maybe even for the next two years. Nassib develops in the interim, and takes over in 2017. The likelihood that Eli could still be productive at 37 may not be great enough to justify losing Nassib to FA. Nassib's next contract should also still be relatively cheap because he won't have played much, if at all, at that point.

All of this assumes of course that Nassib can take over as the next starting QB. He's looked good in preseason, and is certainly more mobile than Eli. But it's preseason, against second and third stringers, and vanilla defenses. It's always good to play well, but it doesn't tell us much IMO. I was very much in favor of the Nassib pick because of the dire need for QBs in this league, and the realization that Eli could get hurt like any other player. Many teams also had a second, or even low first round grade, on Nassib. But he has never played in a regular season NFL game.

It's a real conundrum. Do you extend Eli, and risk losing Nassib, a potential starting QB? Or do you trade Nassib, and ride Eli for another five or six years? I'd still probably extend Eli. He's healthy, and could be productive for another five years. But I certainly understand not doing so, at least now, especially given the tenuous coaching situation, and the possibility that the team might want to move on to Nassib. What to do with Eli and Nassib is likely the most important decision this team will make in the next ten years.
You guys are talking about Eli  
WideRight : 8/31/2015 8:09 am : link
in the same way everyone spoke about Farve late in his career. And I agree with it. Eli has earned the right to make mistakes, but they are still inexcusable.

This sounds pretty stupid, I know, but he needs to be benched. Benching him is the only way to tell him thats its inexcusable. Laugh all you want. Eli can say all the right things "Its on me", "I'm accountable" blah blah, but then expect to go out their again with a clean slate.

Bench him for one series and the whole dynamic changes. Talk doesn't keep you on the field. And if he can't keep himself on the field, he and his agent are going to have a pretty tough time negiotiating an extention.

Who here remembers how much Parcells would get in Simms' face, even after he was an established Pro-Bowler/Superbowl MVP who knew how to say all the right things?
BBI going downhill fast....Trolls everywhere,  
drkenneth : 8/31/2015 8:10 am : link
political threads, now another "Eli sucks!" pre-season thread. Wow.

Can I get my donation $$ back? It's clearly not going toward content, and it's sure as shit not going toward security.
if the Giants don't extend either Eil or Prince before the season ends  
gidiefor : Mod : 8/31/2015 8:11 am : link
-- it will mute any bargaining strength they have with one of them using the Franchise tag - I seriously doubt Reese will let that happen - and the Giants FO has already indicated that they think they will get the Eli extension done either before the season starts or early in the season --

whatever your opinion of Eli is - the FO wants to keep him -- he will be extended this year and Prince's Contract will probably be addressed before the season ends -- Eli will get a contract in the range of Big Ben and Rivers -- probably more than Rivers -- his preseason performance will not effect that

Like it or not they are both key personnel on the Giants -- I don't think the Giants view Eli as past his peak, or not in his prime -- I also think they still appreciate him --

Eric's scenario is his idea of what's prudent -- but he has often taken positions like that - that do not reflect the FO's or the Coach's approach to things - and I think it is an extension of his frustration with what he is seeing

Another thing regarding preseason, Nassib has more incentive than Eli to look better, and perform in the preseason - Eli just has to get into rhythm while they are experimenting with the OLine and the WR sets which are still very embryonic scheme wise - even vanilla -- and he did show improvement in game 3 over game 2 rhythm wise -- Nassib has to show he belongs out there and that he can produce -- his play has more of an edge to it and he takes far more risks because of it -- I do think that Nassib continues to improve -- but he is also still a little rough and a little wild out there and this against the scrub units

while it's bad for Eli to throw an interception -- it's also possible that his throw was a timing pattern, and that he, and whichever receiver was supposed to be where he threw, were not on the same page -- we don't and probably won't know what happened there --

I'm not saying I like what I'm seeing right now, but the above has all been signaled and should be food for thought







I think the bottom line..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 8/31/2015 8:22 am : link
is that rational discussion probably ended at this line:

Quote:
But when a 12 year veteran makes a horrific, rookie mistake like throwing a short pass over the middle with 16 seconds on the clock - and this is a guy who has a history of alternating good seasons with bad seasons with a lot of bonehead mistakes - it raises a level of concern.


Let me reiterate - this observation was made from a preseason game! In preseason where Eli is traditionally not only mediocre, but sometimes terrible. So, this one play is being called indefensible - it is being called horrific and it is being used as the lynchpin to determine if Eli really is an elite QB.

All other discussion aside - this is a perfect example of why people continually act like the world is ending and act like this team perpetually puts in Redskin-like 4-12 records. The last time the Giants went 4-12 was 2003.

But read some threads and you'd think we are the Browns or Jags.
RE: if the Giants don't extend either Eil or Prince before the season ends  
BillT : 8/31/2015 8:28 am : link
In comment 12444092 gidiefor said:
Quote:
-- it will mute any bargaining strength they have with one of them using the Franchise tag - I seriously doubt Reese will let that happen - and the Giants FO has already indicated that they think they will get the Eli extension done either before the season starts or early in the season --

whatever your opinion of Eli is - the FO wants to keep him -- he will be extended this year and Prince's Contract will probably be addressed before the season ends -- Eli will get a contract in the range of Big Ben and Rivers -- probably more than Rivers -- his preseason performance will not effect that

Like it or not they are both key personnel on the Giants -- I don't think the Giants view Eli as past his peak, or not in his prime -- I also think they still appreciate him --

Eric's scenario is his idea of what's prudent -- but he has often taken positions like that - that do not reflect the FO's or the Coach's approach to things - and I think it is an extension of his frustration with what he is seeing

Another thing regarding preseason, Nassib has more incentive than Eli to look better, and perform in the preseason - Eli just has to get into rhythm while they are experimenting with the OLine and the WR sets which are still very embryonic scheme wise - even vanilla -- and he did show improvement in game 3 over game 2 rhythm wise -- Nassib has to show he belongs out there and that he can produce -- his play has more of an edge to it and he takes far more risks because of it -- I do think that Nassib continues to improve -- but he is also still a little rough and a little wild out there and this against the scrub units

while it's bad for Eli to throw an interception -- it's also possible that his throw was a timing pattern, and that he, and whichever receiver was supposed to be where he threw, were not on the same page -- we don't and probably won't know what happened there --

I'm not saying I like what I'm seeing right now, but the above has all been signaled and should be food for thought


I was going to post but this says everything I would have and says it better.
And FMIC  
BillT : 8/31/2015 8:30 am : link
Says the rest
RE: I think the bottom line..  
baadbill : 8/31/2015 8:30 am : link
In comment 12444107 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
... But read some threads and you'd think we are the Browns or Jags.


When you talk defense, the Giants might wish they were as good as the Browns or Jags. The Giants will likely struggle all season long to avoid being the worst defensive team in football.
RE: if the Giants don't extend either Eil or Prince before the season ends  
rocco8112 : 8/31/2015 8:45 am : link
In comment 12444092 gidiefor said:
Quote:
-- it will mute any bargaining strength they have with one of them using the Franchise tag - I seriously doubt Reese will let that happen - and the Giants FO has already indicated that they think they will get the Eli extension done either before the season starts or early in the season --

whatever your opinion of Eli is - the FO wants to keep him -- he will be extended this year and Prince's Contract will probably be addressed before the season ends -- Eli will get a contract in the range of Big Ben and Rivers -- probably more than Rivers -- his preseason performance will not effect that

Like it or not they are both key personnel on the Giants -- I don't think the Giants view Eli as past his peak, or not in his prime -- I also think they still appreciate him --

Eric's scenario is his idea of what's prudent -- but he has often taken positions like that - that do not reflect the FO's or the Coach's approach to things - and I think it is an extension of his frustration with what he is seeing

Another thing regarding preseason, Nassib has more incentive than Eli to look better, and perform in the preseason - Eli just has to get into rhythm while they are experimenting with the OLine and the WR sets which are still very embryonic scheme wise - even vanilla -- and he did show improvement in game 3 over game 2 rhythm wise -- Nassib has to show he belongs out there and that he can produce -- his play has more of an edge to it and he takes far more risks because of it -- I do think that Nassib continues to improve -- but he is also still a little rough and a little wild out there and this against the scrub units

while it's bad for Eli to throw an interception -- it's also possible that his throw was a timing pattern, and that he, and whichever receiver was supposed to be where he threw, were not on the same page -- we don't and probably won't know what happened there --

I'm not saying I like what I'm seeing right now, but the above has all been signaled and should be food for thought








Great post, particularly the point that Nassib has a much greater incentive to perform in practice games.

Look, I love Eli, I firmly believe that he is the best option for this team for at least the next five or so seasons. To me that does not change even if a new staff is brought in. Frankly, I would be leery of staff that did not want Eli.

I also know Eli will not be QB for life, but I dread the day he goes.

Also, and this is nothing against the guy, but based on the mountain of failed QB's in this league I feel very confident saying that Nassib will likely not make much noise in the NFL and certainly will not approach the accomplishments of Manning.

Also,  
rocco8112 : 8/31/2015 8:47 am : link
forgetting that pick, am I the only one who thought the O looked good. The Jets have a good front too and the starting center was out.

That drive was not perfect, but it looked like a tuneup for the real games.

RE: BBI going downhill fast....Trolls everywhere,  
rocco8112 : 8/31/2015 8:51 am : link
In comment 12444090 drkenneth said:
Quote:
political threads, now another "Eli sucks!" pre-season thread. Wow.

Can I get my donation $$ back? It's clearly not going toward content, and it's sure as shit not going toward security.


I think this is one of the best sports sites on the interwebs. There is a ton of Giants content here.

RE: if the Giants don't extend either Eil or Prince before the season ends  
AnnapolisMike : 8/31/2015 9:17 am : link
In comment 12444092 gidiefor said:
Quote:
-- it will mute any bargaining strength they have with one of them using the Franchise tag - I seriously doubt Reese will let that happen - and the Giants FO has already indicated that they think they will get the Eli extension done either before the season starts or early in the season --

whatever your opinion of Eli is - the FO wants to keep him -- he will be extended this year and Prince's Contract will probably be addressed before the season ends -- Eli will get a contract in the range of Big Ben and Rivers -- probably more than Rivers -- his preseason performance will not effect that

Like it or not they are both key personnel on the Giants -- I don't think the Giants view Eli as past his peak, or not in his prime -- I also think they still appreciate him --

Eric's scenario is his idea of what's prudent -- but he has often taken positions like that - that do not reflect the FO's or the Coach's approach to things - and I think it is an extension of his frustration with what he is seeing

Another thing regarding preseason, Nassib has more incentive than Eli to look better, and perform in the preseason - Eli just has to get into rhythm while they are experimenting with the OLine and the WR sets which are still very embryonic scheme wise - even vanilla -- and he did show improvement in game 3 over game 2 rhythm wise -- Nassib has to show he belongs out there and that he can produce -- his play has more of an edge to it and he takes far more risks because of it -- I do think that Nassib continues to improve -- but he is also still a little rough and a little wild out there and this against the scrub units

while it's bad for Eli to throw an interception -- it's also possible that his throw was a timing pattern, and that he, and whichever receiver was supposed to be where he threw, were not on the same page -- we don't and probably won't know what happened there --

I'm not saying I like what I'm seeing right now, but the above has all been signaled and should be food for thought


This was an excellent post.

I will add that the comments made by Eric and others that this is a playoff or bust season for the coaching staff/front office is crazy. This team is going to have to be historically bad for TC and gang to be canned. Maybe this negative Eric is really just Superstitious Eric in disguise who is playing mental games with the football gods???
This is a bad team. And I'm sorry, but Reese should not get a pass if  
Victor in CT : 8/31/2015 9:18 am : link
they can Coughlin at seasons end.

1) As stated the defense sucks. Odi was really the only bright spot. Encouraging also was that Collins played. At last a guy with quick recovery powers.

2) Kuhn STINKS. That he not only plays but starts, it can only mean 1 of 2 things: The coaches are seeing something we're not (I don't know what), or Bromley is yet another 3rd round reach/bust by Reese.

3) LBs stink. DEs outside Odi are pedestrian. S is paper thin. That they are even considering Stevie Brown is scary.

4) Question: if the 3rd pre season game is the "dress rehearsal" why is Orleans Darkwa leading the team in carries? Shouldn't Williams/Jennings be carrying the mail getting ready for opening night?

5) YAY Ereck Flowers!!!! A beast! It's fitting that they gave him Jumbo's number.

6) The Eli INT stuff is overblown. Yes, it was a stupid play that he'd like to have back, but Nassib IS NOT better than Eli. And though I understand the point about paying $100 mill to your QB on a rebuilding team, the alternative is that it could take years to find another franchise QB. Dave Brown/Danny Kannell/Kent Graham anyone? Look at the Jets to see your future without Eli.
RE: Rivers/Roeth  
HomerJones45 : 8/31/2015 9:31 am : link
In comment 12444016 JohnVB said:
Quote:
What have the Chargers won the last 5 years? What have the Steelers won the last 5 years? Both franchises just gave their QB's huge deals because they know they can't easily replace franchise QB's. And we're talking about potentially dumping Eli for Nassib?
they are both a year younger and have no potential candidate to take over- again, assuming they think they have something in Nassib.
Oh, and Hosley still sucks. And as for Dwayne Harris. he is  
Victor in CT : 8/31/2015 9:34 am : link
a special teamer and no more. He does not look fluid as a receiver.
drkenneth  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 8/31/2015 9:42 am : link
Sure, I can refund your contribution. Simply e-mail me.
RE: RE: BBI going downhill fast....Trolls everywhere,  
JFIB : 8/31/2015 9:44 am : link
In comment 12444162 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
In comment 12444090 drkenneth said:


Quote:


political threads, now another "Eli sucks!" pre-season thread. Wow.

Can I get my donation $$ back? It's clearly not going toward content, and it's sure as shit not going toward security.



I think this is one of the best sports sites on the interwebs. There is a ton of Giants content here.


drkenneth - I'll happily give you your donation back if you promise to never post again! Just give me an address and tell me how much you donated.
Agree with Eric  
Marty866b : 8/31/2015 9:49 am : link
How many more seasons are we going to talk about that we won in 2011? If the Giants have another disappointing season I believe it's time to rebuild the entire organization from Reese on down.
As for Eli,I don't think he's a great quarterback at all. He's had many great moments and has come up huge at key times but watching every game that he's played in he's way too inconsistent for me to call him anything but an above average quarterback. He will be 35 on his next contract and I would definitely wait and see how he performs this year before signing him to a huge contract. This team doe not appear to be on the brink of winning anything and if the organization believes that we are a few years from contending again, it would not be in the teams best interest to sign an old quarterback to a long term deal.
Its sad and pathetic  
dep026 : 8/31/2015 9:55 am : link
that we are still talking about Eli, when there are 51 other players that play at a worse level than him consistently.
Since I travel a lot,  
section125 : 8/31/2015 9:57 am : link
I get to talk to people all around the country that are football fans. I get to hear first hand what people say about Eli. As we sit here with our Giants blue eye glasses on, it is quite interesting to hear opinions from other teams fans, especially about good Eli, bad Eli - which one will show up. Most of the other team's fans rate Eli mediocre. Problem is, he is not consistent in regular season. He can be brilliant, but he can be head scratching awful. He needs to be very good more often than awful and he is not(except in the playoffs - if he gets the team there.) What they see is 5 ints against a SF 49er team ripe for the taking.

I contend that given two minutes, 80 yds and down by 4, I'd take Eli over any other QB in football - with Brady as the other. And we know how that match up turns out.

What makes Eli an enigma is his two Super Bowl winning drives and then the pedestrian performances the rest of the year.

You all want to take Eric to task for being tired of Eli's ill advised throws when after 12 years he still makes them preseason or regular season - deja vu all over again.

It all comes down to - how can a QB of his ability be so maddeningly inconsistent? But he always has been and will remain so.
Way to many comments for a QB that is going to be  
Jimmy Googs : 8/31/2015 10:02 am : link
Giants starter this year and re-signed for several more.

Lets move on to discussing the real areas of concern on this team which are bountiful...
It's just a discussion  
HomerJones45 : 8/31/2015 10:04 am : link
Quote:
The Eli INT stuff is overblown. Yes, it was a stupid play that he'd like to have back, but Nassib IS NOT better than Eli.

Agreed that it is overblown, but that is not the point. Nor is the point that Nassib is better at this point. He isn't. Nor is the issue whether Eli is better than the other 51 shlubs. He is.

The issue is whether Nassib is your qb of the future and do you commit $100 million of cap money to a 34 year old and lose Nassib? That is not an unreasonable question.

And please let's stop with the "franchise qb" bullshit. What the hell is a "franchise qb" anyway?
RE: It's just a discussion  
Victor in CT : 8/31/2015 10:11 am : link
In comment 12444344 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:


Quote:


The Eli INT stuff is overblown. Yes, it was a stupid play that he'd like to have back, but Nassib IS NOT better than Eli.


Agreed that it is overblown, but that is not the point. Nor is the point that Nassib is better at this point. He isn't. Nor is the issue whether Eli is better than the other 51 shlubs. He is.

The issue is whether Nassib is your qb of the future and do you commit $100 million of cap money to a 34 year old and lose Nassib? That is not an unreasonable question.

And please let's stop with the "franchise qb" bullshit. What the hell is a "franchise qb" anyway?


Homer, I did not say it wasn't a legit question, I understand the point. Just pointing out the difficulty of finding another QB. The post Phil Simms era was not pretty. It took 6 years just to get to Kerry Collins.
You are right  
HomerJones45 : 8/31/2015 10:16 am : link
Quote:
Just pointing out the difficulty of finding another QB. The post Phil Simms era was not pretty. It took 6 years just to get to Kerry Collins.


no question it is difficult. Do they have one in Nassib? If they think they do, now what?
RE: It's just a discussion  
dorgan : 8/31/2015 10:16 am : link
In comment 12444344 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:


Quote:


The Eli INT stuff is overblown. Yes, it was a stupid play that he'd like to have back, but Nassib IS NOT better than Eli.


Agreed that it is overblown, but that is not the point. Nor is the point that Nassib is better at this point. He isn't. Nor is the issue whether Eli is better than the other 51 shlubs. He is.

The issue is whether Nassib is your qb of the future and do you commit $100 million of cap money to a 34 year old and lose Nassib? That is not an unreasonable question.

And please let's stop with the "franchise qb" bullshit. What the hell is a "franchise qb" anyway?



I don't think Ryan is our QB of the future.
I like him a lot and am of the few here that defended the choice to draft him.
I remember countless threads where he was referred to as a wasted pick. Now, some think he's the heir apparent?


Has to be some broken ankles in the ranks of BBI with that kind of change of direction.

The interception was a very stupid play by a very smart QB.
No way to defend it. He knows better. Anytime you pass the ball, you put the ball at risk. The reward has to be greater than the risk. There was nothing to be gained if the pass was complete.

Eli has probably been kicking his own ass for that choice.



RE: You are right  
Victor in CT : 8/31/2015 10:17 am : link
In comment 12444377 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:


Quote:


Just pointing out the difficulty of finding another QB. The post Phil Simms era was not pretty. It took 6 years just to get to Kerry Collins.



no question it is difficult. Do they have one in Nassib? If they think they do, now what?


That's why the GM gets the big bucks and we get to sit here and criticize for free. :-)
Eric  
bc4life : 8/31/2015 10:27 am : link
Not sure how much Eli is worth, but to be fair - no one could have played well behind that 2013 O-Line. Wasn't that the year they averaged about 90 yards rushing per game?

Eric, I just want to say  
Rory : 8/31/2015 11:14 am : link
been on this site since it was called Pete's and I appreciate all you do.

Some people on this site have too much time on their hands.
If we had a dominant OLine  
dep026 : 8/31/2015 11:21 am : link
I would be more inclined to give Nassib the nod. That might not make sense.... but what good is an inexperience QB if your OLine cant block or cant run the ball? He wont have a chance to shine.

If you are going to have a cheap, inexperience QB.... you need a great OLine, a great RB, and a dominant defense. We dont have those other luxuries.
RE: Since I travel a lot,  
Les in TO : 8/31/2015 11:24 am : link
In comment 12444325 section125 said:
Quote:
I get to talk to people all around the country that are football fans. I get to hear first hand what people say about Eli. As we sit here with our Giants blue eye glasses on, it is quite interesting to hear opinions from other teams fans, especially about good Eli, bad Eli - which one will show up. Most of the other team's fans rate Eli mediocre. Problem is, he is not consistent in regular season. He can be brilliant, but he can be head scratching awful. He needs to be very good more often than awful and he is not(except in the playoffs - if he gets the team there.) What they see is 5 ints against a SF 49er team ripe for the taking.

I contend that given two minutes, 80 yds and down by 4, I'd take Eli over any other QB in football - with Brady as the other. And we know how that match up turns out.

What makes Eli an enigma is his two Super Bowl winning drives and then the pedestrian performances the rest of the year.

You all want to take Eric to task for being tired of Eli's ill advised throws when after 12 years he still makes them preseason or regular season - deja vu all over again.

It all comes down to - how can a QB of his ability be so maddeningly inconsistent? But he always has been and will remain so.


Well said and consistent with my discussions with non-Giants fans.

Eli's greatest strength - his fearlessness - is also a weakness - it sometimes leads to risky throws. I think he hates it when he has to check down or throw the ball away...he would rather take a 25/75 chance on a well covered deep ball than a 80/20 chance on a check down. I just wished he toned down the gunslinger mentality a bit and take what the defense gives him more often. He can make the jaw dropping plays that win super bowls, but he can just as often make the head slapping plays that end up on the blooper reels.
Ryan  
AcidTest : 8/31/2015 11:25 am : link
Nassib is a huge question mark. Nobody knows whether he can succeed Eli. He's played well in the preseason, which is to his credit. But he's never played in a regular season game. Whether he can succeed Eli is a decision that management may well have to make without this ever happening. The future of this team for the next ten years could depend on getting that decision correct.
by saying Eli should've carried the team  
SHO'NUFF : 8/31/2015 11:25 am : link
you mean that he should've blocked for himself the last 3 years?
SHO - tired argument.  
section125 : 8/31/2015 11:36 am : link
Eli's worst line, the 2013 line, gave up less sacks than Green Bay's, IIRC. I don't think Aaron Rodgers has ever been sacked less than Eli in a season when he played a full season.

That year the Giants were only 21st in sacks allowed and that with an immobile QB.

Now the 2013 line was beyond abysmal because they couldn't run block.

NFL Stats 2013 - ( New Window )
...  
ColHowPepper : 8/31/2015 11:42 am : link
I didn't think anything Eric wrote was so off-the-wall; clearly, he is frustrated like the rest of us, probably more with the aggregate of Reese's personnel decisions and the impacts they have had on the caliber of this roster. But since Reese seems "safe" with the Maras, the focus is the product on the field. And it is quite uneven, at best.

The issue of Eli's longevity and tenure with this team is not negligible. If it were, he would have been extended already. There are many issues in play, and Eric adduces some of them.

Nassib's play has made the Eli question more relevant, because, finally, you can see the promise. I think gidiefor's post, while excellent and perhaps spot on, perhaps not, is off base in asserting that the Nassib factor in all this is overplayed because he has more incentive to perform in the pre-season than does Eli.

That's not the point at all: the point is that he has performed well, whatever the prompts or incentive, i.e., he can perform. Some of his plays have been eye-opening, and usually with the spotty 2nds and 3rds. And, of course, it is not ripe to have a discussion of Eli vs. Nassib as the future QB of the Giants, way pre-mature. But Eric is not wrong to say that in this pre-season, Nassib has played better.
RE: SHO - tired argument.  
rocco8112 : 8/31/2015 12:03 pm : link
In comment 12444574 section125 said:
Quote:
Eli's worst line, the 2013 line, gave up less sacks than Green Bay's, IIRC. I don't think Aaron Rodgers has ever been sacked less than Eli in a season when he played a full season.

That year the Giants were only 21st in sacks allowed and that with an immobile QB.

Now the 2013 line was beyond abysmal because they couldn't run block. NFL Stats 2013 - ( New Window )


There was nothing positive about that 2013 line.
RE: RE: SHO - tired argument.  
section125 : 8/31/2015 12:08 pm : link
In comment 12444674 rocco8112 said:
Quote:
In comment 12444574 section125 said:


Quote:


Eli's worst line, the 2013 line, gave up less sacks than Green Bay's, IIRC. I don't think Aaron Rodgers has ever been sacked less than Eli in a season when he played a full season.

That year the Giants were only 21st in sacks allowed and that with an immobile QB.

Now the 2013 line was beyond abysmal because they couldn't run block. NFL Stats 2013 - ( New Window )



There was nothing positive about that 2013 line.


Missed my point. As bad as that line was(it sucked - mayb the worst Giants oline in 20 years) they were only 21st in sacks allowed. Green Bay with a mobile Aaron Rodgers gave up 45. So SHo saying Eli should have blocked for himself needs to be put against the Packers line that gave up 5 more sacks with a better and more mobile QB.
RE: You guys are talking about Eli  
Bayareabluegiant : 8/31/2015 1:52 pm : link
In comment 12444086 WideRight said:
Quote:
in the same way everyone spoke about Farve late in his career. And I agree with it. Eli has earned the right to make mistakes, but they are still inexcusable.

This sounds pretty stupid, I know, but he needs to be benched. Benching him is the only way to tell him thats its inexcusable. Laugh all you want. Eli can say all the right things "Its on me", "I'm accountable" blah blah, but then expect to go out their again with a clean slate.

Bench him for one series and the whole dynamic changes. Talk doesn't keep you on the field. And if he can't keep himself on the field, he and his agent are going to have a pretty tough time negiotiating an extention.

Who here remembers how much Parcells would get in Simms' face, even after he was an established Pro-Bowler/Superbowl MVP who knew how to say all the right things?


That's something I've been saying all offseason. If he is still doing the same ole Eli crap, he needs to sit on the bench for a while. He looks way too comfortable walking back to the bench with that awe shucks look on his face.

One thing that made Joe Montana one of the best QBs ever was after he got benched for Young. After he got benched a couple times, they came back to him and he was lights out. Sometimes players need to be motivated and I think Eli is one of those players.
I gotta say Eric,  
Mike in Philly : 8/31/2015 1:55 pm : link
I can't remember one of your game reviews ever generating this much commentary and emotion. And it's a preseason game!

Regardless of anyone's opinion on the content, it was well written.
"political threads, now another "Eli sucks!" pre-season thread. Wow."  
grizz299 : 8/31/2015 2:32 pm : link

then maybe you should get your money back and scoot. I think this thread handles the subject well and I think a 20 million dollar a year contract is worth talking about.

It's a damn shame that you can't talk reasonably about Eli without being damned. I am an Eli fan and I have supported him vociferiously from his start in San Diego and I've done that when the polarities were reversed and it was as unpopular to support as it is to question now.

I think we don't know what the coaches think of Nassib. And that's what counts. I think it's not impossible that they are very high on him and particularly like him in the Macadoo offensive.

IF that is so does it work down to not who is better Eli or Nassib...but what is better Eli or Nassib and five to six top flight free agents.

In this entire thread there isn't a hint that that's the real argument, nor that we don't know enough to provide an answer.



Please chill everybody,  
oldog : 8/31/2015 2:50 pm : link
don't you all remember the Giants pre-season record last year?
You are not signing 5-6 top free agents with one Eli Manning to  
Devon : 8/31/2015 2:50 pm : link
Ryan Nassib move. Nonsense like that is partly why the move on from Eli side gets such shit.

And, for the love of God, whoever is doing it, please stop using sacks as definitive evidence of OL play and stop spouting untrue cliches about mobility being in step with sack avoidance skills (probably the best QB in this area ever is Peyton Manning, for fuck's sake). Aaron Rodgers is an incredible QB, inarguably significantly better than Eli, but his one flaw is that he's prone to holding the ball longer than he often should, inflating sack and hit numbers (which is still a better flaw than just chucking the ball up to get it out and turnin it over, to be fair).
RE: HomerJones45  
Bayareabluegiant : 8/31/2015 4:39 pm : link
In comment 12444002 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Yup...if they extend Eli, they need to trade Nassib before he hits the open market.

There should be quite a market for him.


If Eli is still playing like crap by week 4 or 5, meaning he doesn't have at least two very good games,then I want to see Nassib come in and make some starts. We can get an idea of how well Nassib can handle real games and it should help Eli better focus on performing at the level we all know he should be playing on.
RE: SHO - tired argument.  
weaverpsu : 8/31/2015 7:14 pm : link
In comment 12444574 section125 said:
Quote:
Eli's worst line, the 2013 line, gave up less sacks than Green Bay's, IIRC. I don't think Aaron Rodgers has ever been sacked less than Eli in a season when he played a full season.

That year the Giants were only 21st in sacks allowed and that with an immobile QB.

Now the 2013 line was beyond abysmal because they couldn't run block. NFL Stats 2013 - ( New Window )


That is because Eli gets rid of the ball faster than most, doesn't he?
RE: RE: You guys are talking about Eli  
weaverpsu : 8/31/2015 7:17 pm : link
In comment 12444962 Bayareabluegiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12444086 WideRight said:


Quote:


in the same way everyone spoke about Farve late in his career. And I agree with it. Eli has earned the right to make mistakes, but they are still inexcusable.

This sounds pretty stupid, I know, but he needs to be benched. Benching him is the only way to tell him thats its inexcusable. Laugh all you want. Eli can say all the right things "Its on me", "I'm accountable" blah blah, but then expect to go out their again with a clean slate.

Bench him for one series and the whole dynamic changes. Talk doesn't keep you on the field. And if he can't keep himself on the field, he and his agent are going to have a pretty tough time negiotiating an extention.

Who here remembers how much Parcells would get in Simms' face, even after he was an established Pro-Bowler/Superbowl MVP who knew how to say all the right things?



That's something I've been saying all offseason. If he is still doing the same ole Eli crap, he needs to sit on the bench for a while. He looks way too comfortable walking back to the bench with that awe shucks look on his face.

One thing that made Joe Montana one of the best QBs ever was after he got benched for Young. After he got benched a couple times, they came back to him and he was lights out. Sometimes players need to be motivated and I think Eli is one of those players.


ELI PLAYED VERY WELL LAST YEAR
Eric  
Lowell : 8/31/2015 7:19 pm : link
Your best review ever. Totally agree with everything you said. Bravo!
Lowell  
bc4life : 8/31/2015 7:37 pm : link
Don't encourage him.
The longer Eli is here, the more reluctant I would actually be  
Bill L : 8/31/2015 7:53 pm : link
To let Nassib go. His streak isn't going to last forever and, especially as he ages, it's more likely that Masson will play long stretches.
Good Review  
Jeffrey : 8/31/2015 9:34 pm : link
Why should anyone believe that what they have seen all preseason from this team and its QB is just a mirage. The team has two consecutive bad seasons and now a mediocre preseason and yet anyone being critical is characterized as negative and an alarmist. Actually, no matter what happens in the upcoming season the effort this preseason has been pathetic. Injuries, age and inexperience all combining to produce three poor performances. So let's hope that the optimists are right. Let's hope that it's just a matter of time before Spags' defense kicks in. Let's hope that it is just Eli being preseason Eli and not a return to 2013. But let's not trash anyone who chooses to judge based upon their eyes and not their heart.
Last year was a pivotal season for Eli  
David in LA : 8/31/2015 11:22 pm : link
if he looked like a square peg in the new offense, I think there's a good chance we were going to move on. IMO we got confirmation from the year Eli put in that 2013 was an outlier season. That 2013 season was single handedly destroyed by an OL that was rotting from the interior. How long does it last? I have no idea. I hope we get creative with the contract so both sides feel like they won. Eli should make Rivers/Ben type of money.
RE: Please chill everybody,  
Bayareabluegiant : 9/3/2015 3:55 pm : link
In comment 12445082 oldog said:
Quote:
don't you all remember the Giants pre-season record last year?


Don't you remember the Giants regular season record.
RE: RE: RE: You guys are talking about Eli  
Bayareabluegiant : 9/3/2015 4:03 pm : link
In comment 12445509 weaverpsu said:
Quote:
In comment 12444962 Bayareabluegiant said:


Quote:


In comment 12444086 WideRight said:


Quote:


in the same way everyone spoke about Farve late in his career. And I agree with it. Eli has earned the right to make mistakes, but they are still inexcusable.

This sounds pretty stupid, I know, but he needs to be benched. Benching him is the only way to tell him thats its inexcusable. Laugh all you want. Eli can say all the right things "Its on me", "I'm accountable" blah blah, but then expect to go out their again with a clean slate.

Bench him for one series and the whole dynamic changes. Talk doesn't keep you on the field. And if he can't keep himself on the field, he and his agent are going to have a pretty tough time negiotiating an extention.

Who here remembers how much Parcells would get in Simms' face, even after he was an established Pro-Bowler/Superbowl MVP who knew how to say all the right things

That's something I've been saying all offseason. If he is still doing the same ole Eli crap, he needs to sit on the bench for a while. He looks way too comfortable walking back to the bench with that awe shucks look on his face.

One thing that made Joe Montana one of the best QBs ever was after he got benched for Young. After he got benched a couple times, they came back to him and he was lights out. Sometimes players need to be motivated and I think Eli is one of those players.



ELI PLAYED VERY WELL LAST YEAR



Eli had a slightly above average year last year, although it was one of his best. If one of the top 3 QBs in the league, Brady, Peyton or Rodgers had a year like his, the writers would be asking if this is the end of their careers. Everybody is holding their breath for him to snap out of it with his full speed mediocrity
Back to the Corner