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NFT: Iowa Polls - Trump, Carson, Sanders doing well

Ira : 8/31/2015 7:14 am
These polls were conducted by Bloomberg and the Des Moines Register. The Republican poll shows Trump leading at 23% followed by a surprising showing by Carson at 18%. All the rest have single digits.

In the Democratic poll, Hillary still leads with 37% with Sanders getting close with 30% and the unannounced Biden at 14%.
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The pledge  
Deej : 9/3/2015 2:16 pm : link
Quote:
“I [name] affirm that if I do not win the 2016 Republican nomination for president of the United States I will endorse the 2016 Republican presidential nominee regardless of who it is,” the pledge reads. “I further pledge that I will not seek to run as an independent or write-in candidate nor will I seek or accept the nomination for president of any other party.”


That's a powerful endorsement right there. A blanket endorsement of any of the 16 candidates (and more could still join) made in September 2015. Real considered and heartfelt. Like the End User License Agreement of endorsements.
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Phew! I was afraid  
Headhunter : 9/3/2015 2:45 pm : link
Bobby Jindal & George Pataki were going to break away and form a 3rd party. I know this was specifically to stop them from upsetting the apple cart
the beef comment he made in his press conference today  
GMAN4LIFE : 9/3/2015 2:46 pm : link
still has me laughing...hahahah
RE: Boy I get the idea behind the pledge  
njm : 9/3/2015 3:21 pm : link
In comment 12451233 Deej said:
Quote:
Rick Perry is under indictment.


I am NOT a Rick Perry fan, but please. That indictment is nothing more than a testament to the wisdom and veracity of Frank Hogan.
So the staffer who is taking the 5th...  
Dunedin81 : 9/5/2015 8:35 am : link
was paid directly by the Clintons before and during his time at the State Department.
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Hillary  
Big Al : 9/5/2015 8:50 am : link
is sorry that you stupid right wingers are confused about her emails.
hmmmm  
giantfan2000 : 9/5/2015 10:04 am : link
Quote:
It's troubling because your loyalty should be to country before party. On a more practical level, it makes no sense.


i guess you don't remember the hastert rule which was that if a majority of republicans did not support a bill in the house it would never come up for a vote.

New polling from Marist out this morning  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/6/2015 9:40 am : link
trump up 7 pts on Carson in Iowa (no close 3rd). Trump up huge in New Hampshire with Kasich running 2nd (28% to 12%).

People can say its early all they want, I think Jeb is done. All the money in the world and the backing of the establishment still cant make up for the fact that Donald Trump has been utterly emasculating him daily. Thats a bigger problem than the Bush last name. He looks like Donald Trumps bitch and i dont know that he can come back from that.
RE: New polling from Marist out this morning  
Sean : 9/6/2015 9:53 am : link
In comment 12457360 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
trump up 7 pts on Carson in Iowa (no close 3rd). Trump up huge in New Hampshire with Kasich running 2nd (28% to 12%).

People can say its early all they want, I think Jeb is done. All the money in the world and the backing of the establishment still cant make up for the fact that Donald Trump has been utterly emasculating him daily. Thats a bigger problem than the Bush last name. He looks like Donald Trumps bitch and i dont know that he can come back from that.


At what point do we start to get scared of the prospect of a Trump presidency? When you look beyond the entertainment, it's a scary prospect.
He's also ahead of Hillary in one poll  
buford : 9/6/2015 10:13 am : link
Can you say President Donald Trump???


And I agree about Jeb. And for that, I am grateful to Donald Trump.
Im more worried about a Carson presidency  
Deej : 9/6/2015 10:15 am : link
I dont know how anyone could hear what that man says and think that he has two feet firmly planted in reality. And unlike Trump, Carson doesnt have have high negatives in the GOP electorate (although interestingly Trump's negatives are going down).
RE: Im more worried about a Carson presidency  
section125 : 9/6/2015 10:22 am : link
In comment 12457408 Deej said:
Quote:
I dont know how anyone could hear what that man says and think that he has two feet firmly planted in reality. And unlike Trump, Carson doesnt have have high negatives in the GOP electorate (although interestingly Trump's negatives are going down).


He just doesn't have his feet planted in YOUR reality. But it is a reality for his people.

Just like I cannot for the life of me understand what anybody sees in Hillary, you cannot see what Carson brings to the table because what he stands for is not what you want. I thought Hillary was strong enough to be SoS and that she was a good choice by Obama. She was for the most part. However her constant lies and coverups just leave me cold. I think these vastly out weigh her positives.
People like Carson because he has a  
buford : 9/6/2015 10:49 am : link
consistent positive message. And the fact that he's an outsider. I don't know if I would vote for him as President. But I don't see him as not living in reality. He's different, but then there are many people in the country that feel similar to they way he thinks than the way you think.
Ben Carson's reality  
Deej : 9/6/2015 11:11 am : link
Ben Carson believes that Obamacare is the worst thing that has happened in America since slavery: “You know Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. And it is in a way, it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government, and it was never about health care. It was about control.”

Ben Carson on why Obamacare is worse than 9/11: “Because 9/11 is an isolated incident. Things that are isolated issues as opposed to things that fundamentally change the United Sates of America and shift power from the people to the government. That is a huge shift. You have to take a long-term look at something that fundamentally changes the power structure of America.”

Ben Carson on the VA crisis: “I think what’s happening with the veterans is a gift from God to show us what happens when you take layers and layers of bureaucracy and place them between the patients and the health care provider. And if we can’t get it right, with the relatively small num¬ber of veterans, how in the world are you going to do it with the entire population?”

Ben Carson on Obama: When a colleague said the president “looks clean. Shirt’s white. The tie. He looks elegant,” Carson responded: “Like most psychopaths. That’s why they’re successful. That’s the way they look. They all look great.”

Ben Carson groups in gays with people who have sex with children and animals as groups that just need to STFU about marriage rights: “Well, my thoughts are that marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s a well-established, fundamental pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality. It doesn’t matter what they are. They don’t get to change the definition.”

Ben Carson’s reasoning on why being gay is a choice: “Be­cause a lot of people who go in­to pris­on go in­to pris­on straight and when they come out, they’re gay. So, did something hap­pen while they were in there? Ask your­self that ques­tion.” [after hearing this, Glenn Beck dubbed Carson a “lunatic” unfit for the presidency]

Ben Carson also sees Nazi Germany everywhere:

On progressives and the PC culture: “I mean, [our so­ci­ety is] very much like Nazi Ger­many. And I know you’re not sup­posed to say ‘Nazi Ger­many,’ but I don’t care about polit­ic­al cor­rect­ness. You know, you had a gov­ern­ment us­ing its tools to in­tim­id­ate the pop­u­la­tion. We now live in a so­ci­ety where people are afraid to say what they ac­tu­ally believe.”

On the IRS: “You know, we live in a Gestapo age, people don’t realize it.”

Ben Carson on the AP US History curriculum: “I think most people, when they finish that course, they’d be ready to go sign up for ISIS.”

Before the 2014 midterms, Carson said that if the GOP lost he couldn’t be sure “there will even be an election in 2016”. That is, he was warning that the Democrats would cancel the 2016 elections. When pressed, he explained: “Certainly there’s the potential because you have to recognize that we have a rapidly increasing national debt, a very unstable financial foundation, and you have all these things going on like the ISIS crisis that could very rapidly change things that are going on in our nation. And unless we begin to deal with these things in a comprehensive way and in a logical way there is no telling what could happen in just a couple of years.”

Ben Carson does not believe in the laws of war or war crime prosecutions, because of this stunning logic: “If you’re gonna have rules for war, you should just have a rule that says no war,” he said. “Other than that, we have to win.”

Ben Carson on Ray Rice’s wife: “Let’s not all jump on the bandwagon of demonizing this guy. He obviously has some real problems. And his wife obviously knows that because she subsequently married him. So they both need some help.”

So you're right section. Ben Carson's reality is not my reality.
Damn  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/6/2015 11:19 am : link
I was aware of some of that already but a few are new to me. Hes definitely a bit batshit. Hes clearly brilliant based on what he has done, but a lot of brilliant people have screws loose, part of what makes them different manifests itself in ways both desirable and not so much.

I dont see the appeal, and ill just come out and say i think a lot of it is the fact that republicans love black people who play respectability politics because it makes them feel justified about a lot of their own sentiments. If that milwaukee sherrif they put on fox news every 2 minutes got in this race he would have his moments too. Carson going after black lives matter has won him many fans
RE: Ben Carson's reality  
section125 : 9/6/2015 11:28 am : link
In comment 12457507 Deej said:
Quote:
Ben Carson believes that Obamacare is the worst thing that has happened in America since slavery: “You know Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. And it is in a way, it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government, and it was never about health care. It was about control.”

Ben Carson on why Obamacare is worse than 9/11: “Because 9/11 is an isolated incident. Things that are isolated issues as opposed to things that fundamentally change the United Sates of America and shift power from the people to the government. That is a huge shift. You have to take a long-term look at something that fundamentally changes the power structure of America.”

Ben Carson on the VA crisis: “I think what’s happening with the veterans is a gift from God to show us what happens when you take layers and layers of bureaucracy and place them between the patients and the health care provider. And if we can’t get it right, with the relatively small num¬ber of veterans, how in the world are you going to do it with the entire population?”

Ben Carson on Obama: When a colleague said the president “looks clean. Shirt’s white. The tie. He looks elegant,” Carson responded: “Like most psychopaths. That’s why they’re successful. That’s the way they look. They all look great.”

Ben Carson groups in gays with people who have sex with children and animals as groups that just need to STFU about marriage rights: “Well, my thoughts are that marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s a well-established, fundamental pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality. It doesn’t matter what they are. They don’t get to change the definition.”

Ben Carson’s reasoning on why being gay is a choice: “Be­cause a lot of people who go in­to pris­on go in­to pris­on straight and when they come out, they’re gay. So, did something hap­pen while they were in there? Ask your­self that ques­tion.” [after hearing this, Glenn Beck dubbed Carson a “lunatic” unfit for the presidency]

Ben Carson also sees Nazi Germany everywhere:

On progressives and the PC culture: “I mean, [our so­ci­ety is] very much like Nazi Ger­many. And I know you’re not sup­posed to say ‘Nazi Ger­many,’ but I don’t care about polit­ic­al cor­rect­ness. You know, you had a gov­ern­ment us­ing its tools to in­tim­id­ate the pop­u­la­tion. We now live in a so­ci­ety where people are afraid to say what they ac­tu­ally believe.”

On the IRS: “You know, we live in a Gestapo age, people don’t realize it.”

Ben Carson on the AP US History curriculum: “I think most people, when they finish that course, they’d be ready to go sign up for ISIS.”

Before the 2014 midterms, Carson said that if the GOP lost he couldn’t be sure “there will even be an election in 2016”. That is, he was warning that the Democrats would cancel the 2016 elections. When pressed, he explained: “Certainly there’s the potential because you have to recognize that we have a rapidly increasing national debt, a very unstable financial foundation, and you have all these things going on like the ISIS crisis that could very rapidly change things that are going on in our nation. And unless we begin to deal with these things in a comprehensive way and in a logical way there is no telling what could happen in just a couple of years.”

Ben Carson does not believe in the laws of war or war crime prosecutions, because of this stunning logic: “If you’re gonna have rules for war, you should just have a rule that says no war,” he said. “Other than that, we have to win.”

Ben Carson on Ray Rice’s wife: “Let’s not all jump on the bandwagon of demonizing this guy. He obviously has some real problems. And his wife obviously knows that because she subsequently married him. So they both need some help.”

So you're right section. Ben Carson's reality is not my reality.


There are some quotes in there that are nuts and there are some that while looking nuts are true.
You think the IRS isn't "gestapo."? Listen to anybody that deals with them.
What was wrong with the quote on Ray Rice. He does have a problem and his wife did stay with him.

What is wrong with the war quote. You don't like ending wars?

Have you seen the AP course curriculum to comment on it? I haven't, but I would bet it contains a lot of revisionist history and the whacky leftist view on the evils of the western world.

You are right on the gay quotes - absurd in this day and age and reality. And he does have some views that are head scratching.

But again, you are a liberal and some of his views which are realistic to half the country are incredulous to you.

BTW, I'm not a Ben Carson fan.

Oh, and didn't Obama just say he would win a third term if he ran (could run).. Didn't Rudy Giuliani try to change the law to run for a third term as mayor in NYC; didn't Bloomberg succeed?

There is some merit to some of his whacky comments, even if they are not credible.
Ok section  
Deej : 9/6/2015 11:52 am : link
I wont debate his comments. I think they speak for themselves. You say:

Quote:

But again, you are a liberal and some of his views which are realistic to half the country are incredulous to you.


Mostly correct. Im liberal on most "social" issues (I consider myself moderate on economic issues). I think if you look at my postings Im understanding of right wing positions that I sympathize with, even if I ultimately disagree with them. So I dont think it's just that all right wing positions are crazy to me. Look at what I've said about abortion, immigration (Im pro-enforcement and anti-amnesty), the Kim Davis situation (where Im more sympathetic than most conservatives on BBI), and the unfreezing of Iranian funds.

My problem with Walker, Rubio, Bush etc. is their policies. My problem with Carson is that he's fucking nuts. I stayed out of the weeds that would have required more explanation. Basically, he's a conspiracy nut of the highest order. To Carson, every Dem policy is not an attempt to pass an incremental improvement in this country. Rather, every Dem policy/bill is a secret plot to totally change the fundamental nature of America.
Thinking he can use Nazi Germany  
Headhunter : 9/6/2015 11:52 am : link
And the Gestapo because of political correctness. Well I'd like to smack him with a 2x4 across his mouth for trivializing Nazi Germany and the Gestapo.
RE: Thinking he can use Nazi Germany  
section125 : 9/6/2015 12:01 pm : link
In comment 12457557 Headhunter said:
Quote:
And the Gestapo because of political correctness. Well I'd like to smack him with a 2x4 across his mouth for trivializing Nazi Germany and the Gestapo.


Gestapo and the Nazi's are easily identified as hateful entities. Everybody but white supremacists see this. I take it as that. It isn't the first time nor will it be the last time somebody calls a despised group by either of the two names. Heavy handed description, yes. It is not the only time somebody has said the same thing about the IRS.
In a nutshell Carson's appeal  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/6/2015 12:05 pm : link
Quote:
Respectability politics or the politics of respectability refers to attempts by marginalized groups to police their own members and show their social values as being continuous and compatible with mainstream values rather than challenging the mainstream for its failure to accept difference.


Anytime hes asked about race he pivots to black on black crime talking points, never a challenging word to say about anything else at play. Points to himself and success as definitive evidence that any talk about inequities are just noise. Republicans love hearing this from a black guy because it legitimizes (in their view) a lot of what part of the party thinks. Also here is this black guy destroying all the accomplishments of the first black president, calling obama care worse than slavery itself. Instant hard ons for a piece of the party. His place in the polls is very much based on respectability politics in my view, thats his appeal on the right
RE: Ok section  
section125 : 9/6/2015 12:05 pm : link
In comment 12457556 Deej said:
Quote:
To Carson, every Dem policy is not an attempt to pass an incremental improvement in this country. Rather, every Dem policy/bill is a secret plot to totally change the fundamental nature of America.


I can see your point and to the Evangelical crowd that is their viewpoint. A big reason I don't like that particular group and cannot fathom pandering to (to me anyway) a bunch of nutjobs.
section  
Deej : 9/6/2015 12:16 pm : link
To me Carson goes well beyond the fears of evangelicals. He's in Glenn Beck territory. He made a point of name-checking the "Alinsky Model" at the first debate. Writing at the National Review, John Fund says:

Quote:
The award so far in this Republican debate for dog-whistle rhetoric goes to Ben Carson. He answered a a question about Hillary Clinton by referring to her belief in “the Alinsky model,” a topic of great interest in the conservative blogosphere.

Named after Saul Alinksy, the late comunity organizer who inspired both Hillary and Barack Obama, the model calls for destabilizing the existing system from the inside and paving the way for radical social change.

Despite his mild manner and soft voice, it may be that Ben Carson is the candidate on tonight’s stage who is privately the most deeply ideological.


To Carson, the Dems want to destabilize the existing America and fundamentally remake it as a purely secular nation where religious people are persecuted. CRAZY.
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RE: section  
section125 : 9/6/2015 12:47 pm : link
In comment 12457579 Deej said:
Quote:
To me Carson goes well beyond the fears of evangelicals. He's in Glenn Beck territory. He made a point of name-checking the "Alinsky Model" at the first debate. Writing at the National Review, John Fund says:



Quote:
To Carson, the Dems want to destabilize the existing America and fundamentally remake it as a purely secular nation where religious people are persecuted. CRAZY. Link - ( New Window )



Ok I get it, you hate Carson.

Again, I'm not a Carson fan, but the Dems do want to fundamentally change America. It was in Obama's platform. But I guess that depends on the observer's view on what fundamentally is. They do want a more socialistic country. However, I don't believe that they want to persecute religions at all. Hell Joe Biden is Catholic ( you know what stigma that carries with it).
I'm even for ACA and its expansion (single payer) because it is cheaper to have the un-wealthy (not just poor) have access to healthcare then have them show up in ERs for expensive limited care. The problem with ACA is it hits the very people it is supposed to help more than any other group because it doesn't go far enough.

For whatever the reason, Carson is popular with the religious right.
with sanders  
dep026 : 9/6/2015 1:45 pm : link
having a huge lead in NH and closing the gap in IA.... is it time to take him as a serious contender or is it still early?
RE: with sanders  
Dunedin81 : 9/6/2015 1:50 pm : link
In comment 12457767 dep026 said:
Quote:
having a huge lead in NH and closing the gap in IA.... is it time to take him as a serious contender or is it still early?


Sanders is not unlike Carson in that if you actually laid down his specific policy platforms you'd realize they're not realistic and a touch scary. So long as the attention is on Hillary as the tottering favorite he won't have that kind of scrutiny, but the Democratic establishment isn't stupid. If it looks like Hillary is cooked they'll back another horse and they'll lead the charge against Bernie.
Dep  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/6/2015 1:58 pm : link
New Hampshire is a border state for Bernie so its not surprising he has been polling well there. But at this point all the talking tv heads who keep tracking this New Hampshire poll on a weekly basis are really doing so solely in the interest of creating the impression of a race where none actually exists. Its the only way to pump any life j to the democratic side right now. Truth is that poll is a severe outlier and Hillary still has HUGE leads nationally and basically everywhere else (55% to 20% in the last PPP poll). Im someone who prefers Bernie to Hillary, but until he starts moving the needle outside of New Hampshire hes not a threat. He has closed her leads, but the leads were so huge they could do nothing but close (theyre still huge)
Regarding the Obama 3rd term thing  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/6/2015 2:30 pm : link
It it were possible to run I have no doubt he would win. People can cite his approval ratings which routinely come in at just under 50%...., it was the same thing last cycle though and we see how that quickly changes when he hits the campaign trail. Hes one of the best campaigners (if not the best) in modern political history and has built a coalition that gets more unbeatable which each coming cycle. No chance he gets beat.
RE: RE: section  
Deej : 9/6/2015 2:46 pm : link
In comment 12457637 section125 said:
Quote:

Ok I get it, you hate Carson.


No, you dont get it. I dont hate Ben Carson. I dont even dislike him. But I think he's a loon.

As for Bernie Sanders, he's the anti-Hillary vote. He's a less electable version of Howard Dean. He has no shot at the nomination. If he continues to be strong, a better candidate will declare and run between HRC and Sanders.

I dont hate Bernie, but the man has no record of working with anyone to accomplish anything. Bernie plus the current Congressional GOP would mean nothing would get accomplished for 4 or 8 years. Perma grid lock.
RE: Regarding the Obama 3rd term thing  
Deej : 9/6/2015 2:54 pm : link
In comment 12457860 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
It it were possible to run I have no doubt he would win. People can cite his approval ratings which routinely come in at just under 50%...., it was the same thing last cycle though and we see how that quickly changes when he hits the campaign trail. Hes one of the best campaigners (if not the best) in modern political history and has built a coalition that gets more unbeatable which each coming cycle. No chance he gets beat.


Id add that polls cant be trusted right now. I saw a clip from a pollster on Fox News who was explaining why the British and Israeli pre-election polls were so bad, and then showing why its going to be the same way in the US going forward. People dont respond to pollsters anymore. They're lucky if 8% of people participate. With participation so low, you start to get a bias towards the kind of people who will participate in a poll.

You have to remember that some of Obama's negative job review comes from the left. Those people arent voting for Rubio/Walker over Obama. So at best they're a half-neg (maybe wont vote for, but not against). GWB was negative for long stretches before 11/2004, and he smoked Kerry.
RE: RE: EricJ  
montanagiant : 9/6/2015 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12450669 EricJ said:
Quote:
In comment 12450639 Deej said:


Quote:


Why is your opinion about what emails should be available for review relevant? Can we also make her Federal Records Act obligations subject to your feelings? Whims?

As for the first part of your post, I think you're ignoring the part in the process where, when she wants to talk about things that she thinks are classified, she doesnt send an email. She communicates securely. You're just getting at what Eric from BBI said, which is that effectively all her communications are inherently classified (a position that is simply irreconcilable with the fact that they just publicly released like 98-99% of that batch of 7000 emails).




and why is the person who installed the server pleading the 5th? Because he fears he may end up dead if he speaks? What is the purpose of there was nothing wrong?

lol...that has to be one of the sillier ass posts I have read on here. Yeah...that's it, they will put a hit on him because...well...its Hilary man!
The Iowa polling is all over the board...  
UAGiant : 9/6/2015 3:21 pm : link
The OP cites a poll that was done almost two weeks ago, where Sanders was within 7. The next poll had Clinton back up to +28 and then NBC ran one through last week where she was +11. The pollsters also insist on leaving Biden in, who is pulling anywhere from 15-20% - most (if not all) of which goes to Clinton when he's removed from the equation.

Sander's "huge" lead in NH is +7 (on average of recent polls), which pales in comparison to Clinton's +70 in South Carolina (and the NH polls includes Biden, who again sees the majority of his support go to Clinton - though NH will likely play out differently due to its demographics). As others have already pointed out, he'll follow every other candidate from the far left that the Democrats have a summer fling with, make noise early and then get buried when he doesn't have his demographics (very white, very liberal) propping him in the rest of the states. He's Howard Dean, post scream and with enough tape of him describing himself as a Socialist for the Republicans to have their ad and marketing team salivating if the DNC loses its mind and actually runs him.

Due to social issues, I typically find myself on the left of the voting column - but the prospect of a Sander's presidency is scary to the degree of a Trump presidency. If Clinton falters, Biden is running within 24 hours - Sanders is a gadfly for the DNC who is out there to prevent this from looking like a coronation. Sander's major accomplishment in his time in politics are renaming a few post offices and winning costume of the year for 3 years running in Congress with his impeccable Doc Brown from Back to the Future getup.

I don't like Hillary, but this "contest" is mostly manufactured drama to get clicks at this point in time. Sanders just coalesced the Warren crowd and brought in the "anyone but Hillary" voters - that's great in places that look like an Eddie Bauer magazine demographically speaking, but once he leaves LL Bean land, he gets crushed. For all the cries of the need for more debates from his camp, O'Malley is likely the one who will benefit the most from more exposure while Sander's working of social sites like Reddit (ala Ron Paul) dies out.
Deej - With respect to the AP History guidelines  
njm : 9/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
I assume you are aware that they have been again revised after prominent historians and historical associations who are not part of the vast right wing conspiracy found the original revised curriculum to be slightly to the left of Howard Zinn.
All of you trying to make hay with the Hilary email stuff  
montanagiant : 9/6/2015 3:38 pm : link
Were you this upset when it was discovered that Bush and his team had been using a private domain email server to conduct WH business? Not only using it, but actually circumventing the Presidential Records Act on purpose to discuss the firing of 8 US Attorneys that did not fall in line with their wishes?

Here was the findings of the Congressional investigation:
Quote:
The House Oversight committee in an interim staff report, released on June 18, 2007:[20]

At least eighty-eight Republican National Committee email accounts were granted to senior Bush administration officials, not "just a handful" as previously reported by the White House spokesperson Dana Perino in March 2007. Her estimate was later revised to "about fifty."

Officials with accounts included: Karl Rove, the President’s senior advisor; Andrew Card, the former White House Chief of Staff; Ken Mehlman, the former White House Director of Political Affairs; and many other officials in the Office of Political Affairs, the Office of Communications, and the Office of the Vice President.

The RNC has 140,216 emails sent or received by Karl Rove. Over half of these emails (75,374) were sent to or received from individuals using official ".gov" email accounts. Other users of RNC email accounts include former Director of Political Affairs Sara Taylor (66,018 emails) and Deputy Director of Political Affairs Scott Jennings (35,198 emails). These email accounts were used by White House officials for official purposes, such as communicating with federal agencies about federal appointments and policies.

Of the 88 White House officials who received RNC email accounts, the RNC has preserved no emails for 51 officials.

There is evidence that the Office of White House Counsel under Alberto Gonzales may have known that White House officials were using RNC email accounts for official business, but took no action to preserve these presidential records.

The evidence obtained by the Committee indicates that White House officials used their RNC email accounts in a manner that circumvented these requirements. At this point in the investigation, it is not possible to determine precisely how many presidential records may have been destroyed by the RNC. Given the heavy reliance by White House officials on RNC email accounts, the high rank of the White House officials involved, and the large quantity of missing emails, the potential violation of the Presidential Records Act may be extensive.


There are estimates that up to 22 million Emails were deleted.

So I am sure all of you bitching about Hillary's Email situation were SURELY up in arms over this one ...right?
Actually I'm even more pissed by Toby Miles's e-mail account  
njm : 9/6/2015 3:45 pm : link
.
RE: Deej - With respect to the AP History guidelines  
Deej : 9/6/2015 3:50 pm : link
In comment 12457983 njm said:
Quote:
I assume you are aware that they have been again revised after prominent historians and historical associations who are not part of the vast right wing conspiracy found the original revised curriculum to be slightly to the left of Howard Zinn.


I dont want to get into a debate about the AP History framework. I understand that it was upsetting to those who like the great man theory of history, and but into a robust theory of American exceptionalism. But no matter how you feel about it, Carson's comment was idiotic and unhelpful. So unless we want to dismiss all of his crazy rhetoric as just over the top bomb throwing, he's a nut job ideologue. And in any event, we need to stop confusing his soft-spoken voice with the content of his words.
RE: RE: Deej - With respect to the AP History guidelines  
njm : 9/6/2015 3:55 pm : link
In comment 12458064 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 12457983 njm said:


Quote:


I assume you are aware that they have been again revised after prominent historians and historical associations who are not part of the vast right wing conspiracy found the original revised curriculum to be slightly to the left of Howard Zinn.



I dont want to get into a debate about the AP History framework. I understand that it was upsetting to those who like the great man theory of history, and but into a robust theory of American exceptionalism. But no matter how you feel about it, Carson's comment was idiotic and unhelpful. So unless we want to dismiss all of his crazy rhetoric as just over the top bomb throwing, he's a nut job ideologue. And in any event, we need to stop confusing his soft-spoken voice with the content of his words.


As extreme as you might view "great men" or "exceptionalism" the original revisions went just as far in the opposite direction. They made Richard Hofstedter look like William F. Buckley Jr..
RE: Ben Carson's reality  
giantgiantfan : 9/6/2015 4:05 pm : link
In comment 12457507 Deej said:
Quote:
Ben Carson believes that Obamacare is the worst thing that has happened in America since slavery: “You know Obamacare is really I think the worst thing that has happened in this nation since slavery. And it is in a way, it is slavery in a way, because it is making all of us subservient to the government, and it was never about health care. It was about control.”

Ben Carson on why Obamacare is worse than 9/11: “Because 9/11 is an isolated incident. Things that are isolated issues as opposed to things that fundamentally change the United Sates of America and shift power from the people to the government. That is a huge shift. You have to take a long-term look at something that fundamentally changes the power structure of America.”

Ben Carson on the VA crisis: “I think what’s happening with the veterans is a gift from God to show us what happens when you take layers and layers of bureaucracy and place them between the patients and the health care provider. And if we can’t get it right, with the relatively small num¬ber of veterans, how in the world are you going to do it with the entire population?”

Ben Carson on Obama: When a colleague said the president “looks clean. Shirt’s white. The tie. He looks elegant,” Carson responded: “Like most psychopaths. That’s why they’re successful. That’s the way they look. They all look great.”

Ben Carson groups in gays with people who have sex with children and animals as groups that just need to STFU about marriage rights: “Well, my thoughts are that marriage is between a man and a woman. It’s a well-established, fundamental pillar of society and no group, be they gays, be they NAMBLA, be they people who believe in bestiality. It doesn’t matter what they are. They don’t get to change the definition.”

Ben Carson’s reasoning on why being gay is a choice: “Be­cause a lot of people who go in­to pris­on go in­to pris­on straight and when they come out, they’re gay. So, did something hap­pen while they were in there? Ask your­self that ques­tion.” [after hearing this, Glenn Beck dubbed Carson a “lunatic” unfit for the presidency]

Ben Carson also sees Nazi Germany everywhere:

On progressives and the PC culture: “I mean, [our so­ci­ety is] very much like Nazi Ger­many. And I know you’re not sup­posed to say ‘Nazi Ger­many,’ but I don’t care about polit­ic­al cor­rect­ness. You know, you had a gov­ern­ment us­ing its tools to in­tim­id­ate the pop­u­la­tion. We now live in a so­ci­ety where people are afraid to say what they ac­tu­ally believe.”

On the IRS: “You know, we live in a Gestapo age, people don’t realize it.”

Ben Carson on the AP US History curriculum: “I think most people, when they finish that course, they’d be ready to go sign up for ISIS.”

Before the 2014 midterms, Carson said that if the GOP lost he couldn’t be sure “there will even be an election in 2016”. That is, he was warning that the Democrats would cancel the 2016 elections. When pressed, he explained: “Certainly there’s the potential because you have to recognize that we have a rapidly increasing national debt, a very unstable financial foundation, and you have all these things going on like the ISIS crisis that could very rapidly change things that are going on in our nation. And unless we begin to deal with these things in a comprehensive way and in a logical way there is no telling what could happen in just a couple of years.”

Ben Carson does not believe in the laws of war or war crime prosecutions, because of this stunning logic: “If you’re gonna have rules for war, you should just have a rule that says no war,” he said. “Other than that, we have to win.”

Ben Carson on Ray Rice’s wife: “Let’s not all jump on the bandwagon of demonizing this guy. He obviously has some real problems. And his wife obviously knows that because she subsequently married him. So they both need some help.”

So you're right section. Ben Carson's reality is not my reality.


Holy shit, that guy really is a nut. I double-checked a few of those quotes and they are legit. I really don't know much about him, but holy shit he's a nut.
RE: RE: section  
giantgiantfan : 9/6/2015 4:10 pm : link
In comment 12457637 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 12457579 Deej said:


Quote:


To me Carson goes well beyond the fears of evangelicals. He's in Glenn Beck territory. He made a point of name-checking the "Alinsky Model" at the first debate. Writing at the National Review, John Fund says:



Quote:
To Carson, the Dems want to destabilize the existing America and fundamentally remake it as a purely secular nation where religious people are persecuted. CRAZY. Link - ( New Window )




Ok I get it, you hate Carson.

Again, I'm not a Carson fan, but the Dems do want to fundamentally change America. It was in Obama's platform. But I guess that depends on the observer's view on what fundamentally is. They do want a more socialistic country. However, I don't believe that they want to persecute religions at all. Hell Joe Biden is Catholic ( you know what stigma that carries with it).
I'm even for ACA and its expansion (single payer) because it is cheaper to have the un-wealthy (not just poor) have access to healthcare then have them show up in ERs for expensive limited care. The problem with ACA is it hits the very people it is supposed to help more than any other group because it doesn't go far enough.

For whatever the reason, Carson is popular with the religious right.


So what "fundamental" changes do you think Dems want to make? What do you describe as fundamental?

In the words of Inigo Montoya "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
As a Jew, I find this so incredibly offensive. And ignorant.  
manh george : 9/6/2015 4:18 pm : link
Quote:
“I mean, [our so­ci­ety is] very much like Nazi Ger­many. And I know you’re not sup­posed to say ‘Nazi Ger­many,’ but I don’t care about polit­ic­al cor­rect­ness. You know, you had a gov­ern­ment us­ing its tools to in­tim­id­ate the pop­u­la­tion. We now live in a so­ci­ety where people are afraid to say what they ac­tu­ally believe.



Anyone who cannot adequately distinguish between genocide and (as he sees it) totalitarianism is not just an extremist, he's a sick, ignorant individual. And that he would make comparisons like this means that as the number of candidates dwindles and people look more closely at his views on this and all the other crazy shit, he will vanish. Bye, bye, Ben.

Oh, and btw, who exactly is afraid to say what they actually believe?
This thing is starting to look like Hillary vs Trump.  
Ira : 9/6/2015 5:00 pm : link
I think that favors the Democrats, but that may be wishful thinking my part. I'm wondering, if Trump is nominated, does he get solid support from intelligent Republicans and Independents?
RE: As a Jew, I find this so incredibly offensive. And ignorant.  
Bill L : 9/6/2015 5:06 pm : link
In comment 12458155 manh george said:
Quote:


Quote:


“I mean, [our so­ci­ety is] very much like Nazi Ger­many. And I know you’re not sup­posed to say ‘Nazi Ger­many,’ but I don’t care about polit­ic­al cor­rect­ness. You know, you had a gov­ern­ment us­ing its tools to in­tim­id­ate the pop­u­la­tion. We now live in a so­ci­ety where people are afraid to say what they ac­tu­ally believe.




Anyone who cannot adequately distinguish between genocide and (as he sees it) totalitarianism is not just an extremist, he's a sick, ignorant individual. And that he would make comparisons like this means that as the number of candidates dwindles and people look more closely at his views on this and all the other crazy shit, he will vanish. Bye, bye, Ben.

Oh, and btw, who exactly is afraid to say what they actually believe?
me. I need to keep my job.
I don't know what to think of this all.  
SanFranNowNCGiantsFan : 9/6/2015 5:59 pm : link
Trump is dominating, Carson is surging, Bush is sinking, HRC is floundering, Bernie is rising, and Biden is deciding.

Such a weird summer. And I expect this narrative to continue into the fall. A Trump Clinton race doesn't seem so farfetched. And that'll be a spectacle. Hell, in this climate, I'd consider Trump the favorite.
RE: I don't know what to think of this all.  
Dunedin81 : 9/6/2015 6:20 pm : link
In comment 12458422 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Trump is dominating, Carson is surging, Bush is sinking, HRC is floundering, Bernie is rising, and Biden is deciding.

Such a weird summer. And I expect this narrative to continue into the fall. A Trump Clinton race doesn't seem so farfetched. And that'll be a spectacle. Hell, in this climate, I'd consider Trump the favorite.


NFW Trump wins a general election. I still can't see him winning the Republican nomination, but there are millions of rock-ribbed Republicans (myself included) who wouldn't vote for him in a million years, even if the Democrats nominate Hillary.
Walkers campaign is a mess  
MarshallOnMontana : 9/6/2015 6:34 pm : link
6 weeks ago Walker is at 19% in Iowa and leading the pack, now hes at 5% and totally off the radar. He cant even break into the news cycle outside of moments of spineless indecisiveness responding to Trumps positions (like birthright citizenship. )

I dont know who the "establishment" guy is to take trump and/or Carson down. I dont see it in Bush or Walker. Kasich is too center in my view for where the republicans are at. Hes doing well in new hampshire but thats an outlier. Marco rubio just doesnt do it for republicans nationally. I wouldnt write off ted cruz, but hes also clearly not establishment even though hes in goverment unlike some of the others. I personally think cruz is scary and obnoxious and probably my least favorite guy in this field. He also has such a punchable douche face. Ive said it before but its true. More punchable than Jay cutler
I think that  
Deej : 9/6/2015 6:35 pm : link
HRC v. Trump or HRC v. Bush will lead to a material 3rd party run. Not sure by who, but someone who will gets points in the polls. Maybe 10%+.

As for what to make of it, I discount Carson -- he'll have his month like Newt, Cain, and Perry all had last time. Trump is a different nut to crack. I cant picture him being the GOP nominee. I just think one of the governors+Rubio crowd needs to start running away with that segment of the vote.

Put aside the personality -- once more Republicans really look at what Trump's policy positions are, they'll move on. Either that or the right is just an unserious troll of the left and not a real governing party. Or a white nationalist coalition. Their choice.
Walker is a one trick pony  
Deej : 9/6/2015 6:38 pm : link
The right loves his anti-union efforts. But then the followup question gets him, which is that Florida under Bush, Texas under Perry, and Ohio under Kasich did a lot better than Wisconsin under Walker. And I think the Bucks' stadium deal really demolished his bona fides. It's a joke that he cut the UW budget by $250 million and then immediately sunk that much into a private arena. Everyone knows it, even his ardent supporters.
RE: Walker is a one trick pony  
Dunedin81 : 9/6/2015 6:45 pm : link
In comment 12458476 Deej said:
Quote:
The right loves his anti-union efforts. But then the followup question gets him, which is that Florida under Bush, Texas under Perry, and Ohio under Kasich did a lot better than Wisconsin under Walker. And I think the Bucks' stadium deal really demolished his bona fides. It's a joke that he cut the UW budget by $250 million and then immediately sunk that much into a private arena. Everyone knows it, even his ardent supporters.


Walker lacks charisma and he gives evasive or contradictory answers to what are for serious pols almost softball questions. Not ready for prime time.
The problem with  
ctc in ftmyers : 9/6/2015 7:51 pm : link
Trump, and it's a long, long way to go yet. is that he is a populist.

Too many point to the Tea Party and Occupy Democracy wingnuts as the drivers of either party when in reality each are lucky to represent 15% of their parties.

That leaves the 70% in the middle plus the independents not affiliated.

Lets see, so far he has come out for universal health care of some sort (everyone deserves health care), raising taxes on the rich (hedge fund managers), a strong military and taking care of our vets, growing small businesses, rule of law (see Kentucky), Honoring the Iran deal even though he thinks it sucks (contract is a contract) but will make it work, has effeminately started a conversation on illegal immigration that never would have happened, etc, etc.

People are sick of politicians, period. Doesn't matter what party, DC is bought and paid for. Nothing changes no matter who is in charge.

Now, as I stated to start this, there is a long, long was to go. An eternity in the political world. Anything can and will happen.

As far as a third party run, unless it comes fro the democratic side it won't happen. As Trump said on MSNBC, too hard to get in on the primaries in each state and and if you were lucky enough to get 35% it goes to the House which is full of Democrats and Republicans.

Not a pro or con on the man. Just an opinion on why he is so appealing across party lines.

I have ~6 months before I vote in a primary.
RE: RE: I don't know what to think of this all.  
njm : 9/7/2015 1:35 pm : link
In comment 12458453 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
In comment 12458422 SanFranNowNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Trump is dominating, Carson is surging, Bush is sinking, HRC is floundering, Bernie is rising, and Biden is deciding.

Such a weird summer. And I expect this narrative to continue into the fall. A Trump Clinton race doesn't seem so farfetched. And that'll be a spectacle. Hell, in this climate, I'd consider Trump the favorite.



NFW Trump wins a general election. I still can't see him winning the Republican nomination, but there are millions of rock-ribbed Republicans (myself included) who wouldn't vote for him in a million years, even if the Democrats nominate Hillary.


I wouldn't vote for Trump under any circumstance. Unless a centrist Democrat who's not in the race currently enters I'd vote for the other races and leave the presidential ballot blank, similar to what I did the first time I was eligible to vote in the '72 election.
No obvious place to put this...  
Dunedin81 : 9/7/2015 9:49 pm : link
but apparently the IG vetting Hillary's emails has identified two with information that was Top Secret at the time she sent them. The State Department is in mitigation mode, suggesting that this may have been a situation where information was received from parallel sources and the source on which she relied was not classified. It is worth pointing out, as Eric has, that a number of people at State would potentially be at risk should this really blow up.
Link - ( New Window )
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