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NFT: Iowa Polls - Trump, Carson, Sanders doing well

Ira : 8/31/2015 7:14 am
These polls were conducted by Bloomberg and the Des Moines Register. The Republican poll shows Trump leading at 23% followed by a surprising showing by Carson at 18%. All the rest have single digits.

In the Democratic poll, Hillary still leads with 37% with Sanders getting close with 30% and the unannounced Biden at 14%.
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RE: Now Hilary is a traitor  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 9:57 am : link
In comment 12446312 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I'm so glad the site owner is not a hyperbolic shit stirrer


Headhunter, she sold influence for money, including to countries/companies in countries who are not our friends.

I can't believe that party loyalty has so badly blinded people here to how serious this situation is.

Why the heck do you think she had the private server in the first place?

Even if you want to bury your head in the sand with the influence pedaling, her criminal (yes CRIMINAL) incompetence in handling our nations top secrets has most likely cost the country billions of dollars and put lives at risk. For what?

She is broken so many laws with this server scandal it's outrageous she hasn't be indicted yet. Worse, the USG officials at State covering it up should have been indicted too.
I was affraid of McCain  
Deej : 9/1/2015 9:58 am : link
I think he's unstable. Presidents dont sing songs about bombing Iran. And he's not even a hawk. He's a warmonger. The guy's answer to any international issue was force force force.

Romney might have been okay for a Republican. He was level headed. No idea whether he would have moved left or right as president, since I could never tell what he believed in beyond his attitude toward business. I fear he would have been terrified of his own base.
RE: Now Hilary is a traitor  
njm : 9/1/2015 9:58 am : link
In comment 12446312 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I'm so glad the site owner is not a hyperbolic shit stirrer


Speaking of shit stirrers
RE: RE: Could someone explain Ben Carson's appeal?  
Bill L : 9/1/2015 10:00 am : link
In comment 12446326 Watson said:
Quote:
In comment 12446212 Headhunter said:


Quote:


I get his rags to riches great inspiring story. Who is he? What is he all about?



He's not a career politician similar to Trump. He's drawing most of his support from the Religious Right; his position on abortion and also believes homosexuality is a choice.
Maybe.

But I think it's deeper than that. I think he hits the Trump/Sanders group but those who like the outsiderness but with a better, less strident, less a-hole of a messenger.
RE: I was affraid of McCain  
njm : 9/1/2015 10:01 am : link
In comment 12446328 Deej said:
Quote:
I think he's unstable. Presidents dont sing songs about bombing Iran. And he's not even a hawk. He's a warmonger. The guy's answer to any international issue was force force force.

Romney might have been okay for a Republican. He was level headed. No idea whether he would have moved left or right as president, since I could never tell what he believed in beyond his attitude toward business. I fear he would have been terrified of his own base.


You didn't know what his attitude towards Russia was? The media sure did, and those condescending assholes sure turned out to be wrong.
If  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:03 am : link
I were a loyal American and Democrat, I would want her held to the same standard that every USG employee is held to. It's not even a question of whether she broke the law. She did. She exclusively conducted USG business on private/server e-mail, she received and transmitted classified (including top secret) documents on the system (whether they were marked or not is no defense - it doesn't matter), and she wiped the server (she had no authority to do that...once she conducted USG business on it, it no longer belonged to her).

Get behind Joe Biden or Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders or someone else. She ought to be under indictment.

and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:11 am : link
lastly...

Let's say you don't care if government officials are held to a different standard...that the rules and laws shouldn't apply to them. Let's say you don't care if she was criminally careless about national security or if she influence pedaled...

Let's say you don't care about that.

What is there to like about her as a candidate? She's demonstrated a horrible lack of judgement. She accomplished very little as Secretary of State (and she won't even admit to the things she WAS involved in like TPP). She has pulled way to the left this year simply because the party has pulled to the left, begging the question what her real beliefs really are. She seems to have intimate ties to Wall Street. And she's a horrible campaigner (she's nothing like Bill...her press conferences are cringe-worthy). Is her only appeal is that she is a woman?
Out of curiosity...  
Bill L : 9/1/2015 10:12 am : link
does anyone know if Obama has been directly asked about this?
Did he know that she only used one device (her Blackberry-Iphone-Ipad-Galaxy)? Did he know that she never had or used a .gov email? Did he know that he said don't use your own server and she said fu? or that he said keep Blumenthal away from gov't business and she said fu?

I would think he would be pissed. He is such an autocrat that having a subordinate flaunt his orders would have to cut deeply.

I think he is going to have an awkward decision to make and it will probably be revealed by what Biden does. If justice comes to him and says "there's substance for an indictment, especially since look what we did to Petraeus et al" he either has to say yea or nay. There's a political versus a value judgment to be made and if he goes for the political and gets found out, then there is also a legacy issue he will have to weigh. I do feel it's going to come to his doorstep eventually.
RE: and  
Bill L : 9/1/2015 10:13 am : link
In comment 12446363 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
lastly...

Let's say you don't care if government officials are held to a different standard...that the rules and laws shouldn't apply to them. Let's say you don't care if she was criminally careless about national security or if she influence pedaled...

Let's say you don't care about that.

What is there to like about her as a candidate? She's demonstrated a horrible lack of judgement. She accomplished very little as Secretary of State (and she won't even admit to the things she WAS involved in like TPP). She has pulled way to the left this year simply because the party has pulled to the left, begging the question what her real beliefs really are. She seems to have intimate ties to Wall Street. And she's a horrible campaigner (she's nothing like Bill...her press conferences are cringe-worthy). Is her only appeal is that she is a woman?
It is according to Xmead or, more to the point, that's the only reason you would not vote for her.
njm  
Headhunter : 9/1/2015 10:14 am : link
you're a fucking angel
njm  
Deej : 9/1/2015 10:14 am : link
I took his Russia comments as more assessment than belief. During his first run for president he said we should work with Russia on Iran through the UN. I still have no idea what he'd want to do with Russia now, other than label it a foe.

And while he claimed vindication post-Crimea, I actually think it's much more of a mixed bag. I've said before that Russia is flexing its muscles as a purely regional power and not the #1 geopolitical foe Romney tagged them as. Ukraine, Crimea. Regional shit. Just like Iran with Iraq and Syria and Yemen. Regional. Russia's economy is collapsing because it's a petrostate suffering from low oil prices and sanctions and I see no signs of their influence in South America, Cuba, South East Asia, Africa etc.
Eric  
Headhunter : 9/1/2015 10:15 am : link
I am sick of her too, but calling someone a traitor is over the top
Eric, that is why there is an FBI investigation.  
manh george : 9/1/2015 10:15 am : link
You wouldn't mind waiting until there is something like actual proof of your assertions, would you, since there is an actual independent investigation going on?
RE: Eric, that is why there is an FBI investigation.  
Deej : 9/1/2015 10:20 am : link
In comment 12446375 manh george said:
Quote:
You wouldn't mind waiting until there is something like actual proof of your assertions, would you, since there is an actual independent investigation going on?


And made up legal standards. For example, there was no legal prohibition on using private email for government work. Eric has said this a half dozen time and I've shown him the precise language proving that he's wrong each time. It is tiresome. He refuses to listen because he was told something else during training.

Now a server become the property of the government because she used it for her SOS duties? Where is that source of law? I've never seen that so it's new to me.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:20 am : link
Headhunter...have you ever seen the sitcom "Arrested Development"? It's basically "light treason" if you believe she sold influence to foreign governments. (Politicians sell domestic influence all of the time...but it's a different level when you sell it to foreign governments. There are laws against that).

Manh George. She broke the law in the first place simply by having the private server/e-mail system. And the moment it was revealed that there were top secret documents on the system it went to a whole new level. (that was going to be automatic anyway...there is NO WAY a Secretary of State can even do her job without access to marked and non-marked top secret, secret, and confidential documents). She already broke the law...the only question now is whether the Justice Department does anything about it. She also destroyed the server and her staff destroyed their blackberries...another law broken.
RE: RE: And boy do I disagree with your comment on Jeb  
buford : 9/1/2015 10:21 am : link
In comment 12446305 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
In comment 12446274 Bill L said:


Quote:


he's one of the least hard-core Republicans on the panel and that's part of why he's having his problem. You actually have to look beyond his last name.

I look at the fact that Jeb Bush was a signed founding member of the Plan For the New American Century - nearly the entire Bush43 Administration was represented there, as well as Jeb. This was the group that lobbied the Clinton Administration to take military action against Saddam Hussein.

We know what that line of thinking brought us.

I'll pass on handing another one of those assholes the keys.


Bush is establishment to his core and is only slightly right of the Dem party.
Deej  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:21 am : link
You cannot conduct USG business on a private system. It is not allowed. USG employees with security clearance are told this EVERY year during IT security and regular security training.
RE: Now Hilary is a traitor  
schabadoo : 9/1/2015 10:23 am : link
In comment 12446312 Headhunter said:
Quote:
I'm so glad the site owner is not a hyperbolic shit stirrer


That's why I always thought political threads were banned, can't help himself.
Headhunter  
Rob in CT/NYC : 9/1/2015 10:26 am : link
Please don't take this an attack, but I would strongly suggest that you not post claims about leaving the site if anyone can show you were you struck first with an insult.

On this thread, you called njm a "fucking angel" and Eric a "hyperbolic shit-stirrer".

Personally, I would take both as compliments, but I am weird that way and someone else might not.
Carson is a guy whose politics are hard-right...  
Dunedin81 : 9/1/2015 10:30 am : link
but who is generally likeable and affable and so he doesn't excite the same vitriol as someone who pounds his fists and says the same sorts of things in disparaging fashion. He's to the right of me, or seems to be, on a number of issues and I think he is unelectable in a general election, but his negatives won't manifest themselves until the opposition deems him worthy of attack.
Rob  
Headhunter : 9/1/2015 10:30 am : link
in fairness to me, I did react to njm. Calling someone a traitor is a little over the top without a shred a of proof, no?
RE: RE: Now Hilary is a traitor  
Bill L : 9/1/2015 10:30 am : link
In comment 12446394 schabadoo said:
Quote:
In comment 12446312 Headhunter said:


Quote:


I'm so glad the site owner is not a hyperbolic shit stirrer



That's why I always thought political threads were banned, can't help himself.


Sorry but that's either a complete distortion or fogginess in your head or you just weren't here reading the forum at the point political threads were originally banned.
RE: RE: RE: Now Hilary is a traitor  
schabadoo : 9/1/2015 10:32 am : link
In comment 12446413 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 12446394 schabadoo said:


Quote:


In comment 12446312 Headhunter said:


Quote:


I'm so glad the site owner is not a hyperbolic shit stirrer



That's why I always thought political threads were banned, can't help himself.



Sorry but that's either a complete distortion or fogginess in your head or you just weren't here reading the forum at the point political threads were originally banned.


I probably wasn't here for the original banning, it was just a theory.

One of the first ones I remember was one he started and was off the rails. Much like the treason claim above.
Wonderful tape of Trump discussing China.  
manh george : 9/1/2015 10:33 am : link
Chine on harvest moon up in the sky.
Link - ( New Window )
Headhunter  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:34 am : link
It may sound hyperbolic, but what do you call a sitting Secretary of State who sells influence for money to foreign governments?

I suspect that most Democrats that really follow the news know that this is true at this point. It's a question now of how much it really bothers them.

I suspect Bernie Sanders is doing so well not because of Bernie Sanders, but because of a negative reaction to Hilliary among loyal Democrats. That's my guess.
Eric  
Headhunter : 9/1/2015 10:39 am : link
she has lied no question, she is parsing words, no question, she did what she did willfully IMO,but to call someone a Traitor based on assumptions that you infer, is over the top. You cant make a more serious charge against someone who is or was in government
RE: Deej  
Deej : 9/1/2015 10:40 am : link
In comment 12446388 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
You cannot conduct USG business on a private system. It is not allowed. USG employees with security clearance are told this EVERY year during IT security and regular security training.


And as I've told you a half-dozen times, that is the rule now. The rule became effective post-HRC. I've previously showed you the State manual that talks about how the government has an obligation to preserve materials on a private email server, a rule which necessarily permits private email servers. All you ever say in response is that someone told you otherwise, as if that someone trumps written protocols. So instead I'll just quote State employees:

Marie Harf, Senior Advisor for Strategic Communications, at official briefing 3/3/2015: "There was no prohibition on using a non-State.gov account for official business as long as it’s preserved.

John Kirby, State spokesman, on CNN 8/24/2015: "at the time she was not violating policy. I can tell you that there was no prohibition for her use of this, and we’ve since changed the policy to discourage that greatly, and in fact, the policy is that you have to use your government account for business."

Cant wait for you to tell me that you heard otherwise though.
Headhunter  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:40 am : link
It's only over the top if you don't think she sold influence to foreign governments for money.

If you don't think that, of course you would think it is over the top.

RE: Wonderful tape of Trump discussing China.  
njm : 9/1/2015 10:41 am : link
In comment 12446418 manh george said:
Quote:
Chine on harvest moon up in the sky. Link - ( New Window )


I couldn't take more than 45 seconds of that. And while I'm no supporter of Trump, I have to say that an equivalent (at least a 45 second equivalent) could be produced against just about anyone over some issue.
Deej  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:42 am : link
I worked for the USG for 25 years. We were never allowed to use private e-mail/systems to access classified information. I would have been fired and possibly arrested depending on the severity of the security breach.
DEEJ  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:43 am : link
and citing Harf's comment above, she didn't preserve it. (It being non-classified info I assume because you can't put classified info on a non-secure system...that's not even a question).
RE: and  
Milton : 9/1/2015 10:44 am : link
In comment 12446363 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
What is there to like about her as a candidate? She's demonstrated a horrible lack of judgement. She accomplished very little as Secretary of State (and she won't even admit to the things she WAS involved in like TPP). She has pulled way to the left this year simply because the party has pulled to the left, begging the question what her real beliefs really are. She seems to have intimate ties to Wall Street. And she's a horrible campaigner (she's nothing like Bill...her press conferences are cringe-worthy). Is her only appeal is that she is a woman?
Two things. Experience and the Clinton brand. She's been a First Lady, a Senator, and Secretary of State. And a lot of people feel the first Clinton presidency were good times for the country (many may disagree, but enough feel that way). So there is the belief that she may not be a great President, but she will be a competent one.
World according to Eric  
Deej : 9/1/2015 10:45 am : link
Any politician takes a campaign donation from a person/business with matters before that elected official: politics as usual.

Clinton charity run by Bill taking donations for charitable purposes from foreign governments (many of them allies): obviously a bribe quid pro quo from a traitorous bitch.

Eric: what is your evidence of quid pro quo? Why was this selling influence, but actual political donations to campaigns or PACs doesnt have you shitting your pants? Oh wait, I know, it's because she was SOS so this is special. Special rules for a special lady.
RE: RE: Deej  
njm : 9/1/2015 10:45 am : link
In comment 12446435 Deej said:
Quote:


Marie Harf, Senior Advisor for Strategic Communications, at official briefing 3/3/2015: "There was no prohibition on using a non-State.gov account for official business as long as it’s preserved.



Am I wrong, or were more than 30,000 communications NOT preserved? Beyond that, were the determiners of what were NOT preserved any sort of official State Dept. vetting group?
RE: RE: and  
x meadowlander : 9/1/2015 10:45 am : link
In comment 12446367 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 12446363 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:

It is according to Xmead or, more to the point, that's the only reason you would not vote for her.
xmead said nothing of the sort.

xmead has been critical of her handling of the e-mail scandal.

xmead has claimed that many dislike her because she is too Liberal.

xmead has pointed out that many dislike her because she strongly represents the ties to big money and politics.

There are many reasons not to vote for Hillary Clinton.

I'm simply pointing out that America chose to completely ignore Colin Powell's use of personal e-mail during his term as SOS, America barely cared about the millions of deleted e-mails of the Bush43 Administration...

...but - this is different, because it's Hillary Clinton.

And it's nothing new. Hell, she was even vilified while suffering the public humiliation of the Lewinski scandal.

I'm not defending Hillary Clinton's actions. Just pointing out the double standard of America and of the people posting here.
Can someone explain to me  
Mike in Long Beach : 9/1/2015 10:47 am : link
how Carson continues to rise in the polls? He's a bright guy, but there are BBI posters more versed in foreign policy than he is.
Deej  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 10:48 am : link
It's why there are federal ethics rules about not being able to accept money from foreign governments/companies.

Every year, every GS-13 or above has to fill out a form listing possible financial conflicts of interest. I even had to put BBI on mine and explain that the ad networks were general ad companies and not direct payments from specific companies.
RE: Deej  
Deej : 9/1/2015 10:49 am : link
In comment 12446443 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I worked for the USG for 25 years. We were never allowed to use private e-mail/systems to access classified information. I would have been fired and possibly arrested depending on the severity of the security breach.


I wasnt talking the classified issue (and again, the stuff is being classified after the fact). You are conflating issues.

Quote:
DEEJ
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10:43 am : link : reply
and citing Harf's comment above, she didn't preserve it. (It being non-classified info I assume because you can't put classified info on a non-secure system...that's not even a question).


The Records Act requires preservation of certain information. What did she not preserve? She turned over 30k+ emails. What precisely are you saying she did not preserve and produce, without rampant speculation please.
Headhunter  
Rob in CT/NYC : 9/1/2015 10:49 am : link
I don't think Hillary is a traitor, so far as I can tell (and I admittedly have little appetite for this nonsense so far in advance of the election), she is guilty of extraordinarily poor judgment and being tin-eared with respect to the issue.

More broadly, she is more of the same - anyone who rails against the influence of corporations and pulls a lever for her simply isn't paying attention.

More of the same from both sides no doubt explains the current status of wholly unpalatable candidates such as Trump and Carson.
RE: Can someone explain to me  
Dunedin81 : 9/1/2015 10:53 am : link
In comment 12446463 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
how Carson continues to rise in the polls? He's a bright guy, but there are BBI posters more versed in foreign policy than he is.


Part of it is anti-establishment, part of it is nobody has really cared enough to put the effort into opposition research and publicity on the guy.
RE: RE: RE: Could someone explain Ben Carson's appeal?  
Watson : 9/1/2015 10:57 am : link
In comment 12446339 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 12446326 Watson said:


Quote:


In comment 12446212 Headhunter said:


Quote:


I get his rags to riches great inspiring story. Who is he? What is he all about?



He's not a career politician similar to Trump. He's drawing most of his support from the Religious Right; his position on abortion and also believes homosexuality is a choice.

Maybe.

But I think it's deeper than that. I think he hits the Trump/Sanders group but those who like the outsiderness but with a better, less strident, less a-hole of a messenger.


Bill, do agree. He comes across as a nice guy; religious beliefs sincere which would appeal to many voters not just evangelicals. In the first debate received criticism by pundits that he did not make a case for himself. However, he did make several humble comments. If that's how he's coming across on the stump, I can see the appeal.

Conversely, it was thought that Cruz would be the "champion" of the evangelicals. Regardless of your opinion of Cruz, he doesn't come across as nice or humble but more often than not the opposite.
Whats should her punishment be?  
WideRight : 9/1/2015 10:58 am : link
We seem to agree about the impropriety, but not the severity of the crime. Maybe inspite of our differences, we can agree about the punishment:

1) nothing
2) fine
3) loss of ex USG priveldges
4) probaation
5) jail
If this had broken two years ago...  
Dunedin81 : 9/1/2015 10:59 am : link
it might have been enough to push others into the race, and I doubt the Democrats would be falling over themselves to defend her. But for whatever reason they're convinced that 11/16 is right around the corner and they don't have time to draft another credible candidate.
Deej  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 11:00 am : link
All I can tell you is that we were instructed (yes instructed) that we could not conduct USG business on private e-mail (yahoo, gmail, etc.). It wasn't allowed.

You may say I'm conflating the two, but almost everything she did by e-mail was classified, whether marked or not.

It is a fact that there was classified material on her system. She broke the law...it was impossible for her not to break the law given her job and the information she had to access.

Then she had the server wiped. She's not allowed to do that.
RE: Deej  
Deej : 9/1/2015 11:00 am : link
In comment 12446467 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It's why there are federal ethics rules about not being able to accept money from foreign governments/companies.

Every year, every GS-13 or above has to fill out a form listing possible financial conflicts of interest. I even had to put BBI on mine and explain that the ad networks were general ad companies and not direct payments from specific companies.


You speak in sweeping generalities. There are ethics rules, so she must have violated them? Why dont you identify the specific rule you think was violated. And specifically how that ethics rule relates not to gifts to the government employee, but to a charity run by that employee's spouse. In fact, I think there was a specific ethics agreement with the administration and the charity. The agreement and charity predated her confirmation, where she was confirmed 94-2.

The charity identified a single breach of that agreement -- an unsolicited $500k donation from Algeria immediately following the Haiti quake. The charity disclosed the donation but mistakenly did not inform State. If you think that the charity's error makes her unethical, that's your right. Good on you.
Deej  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 11:02 am : link
just a quick google search brought up this...
Clinton private email violated 'clear-cut' State Dept. rules Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/03/state-department-email-rule-hillary-clinton-115804#ixzz3kV1xIfYJ - ( New Window )
RE: Deej  
Deej : 9/1/2015 11:03 am : link
In comment 12446500 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
All I can tell you is that we were instructed (yes instructed) that we could not conduct USG business on private e-mail (yahoo, gmail, etc.). It wasn't allowed.


That's not all you can tell me. You can also tell me that the no rule actually said prohibited the use of private email for State business. You simply refuse to do so, and instead keep posting incorrectly that conducting USG business on a private server is breaking the law. I wish you would stop saying that because it is demonstrably wrong no matter what you were told.
These are master politicians  
WideRight : 9/1/2015 11:09 am : link
With big time legal advisors. Everything gets vetted. What she does. What he does. What the charity does. THey are constantly walking upto the limits of legality. When they do cross it, its done with their advisors pre-conclusion that it would be unlikely to amount to much. Thats the way life is. The chances of finding a significant "ah-ha you are a criminal who broke the law!" moment is slim to none.

Recall she made a $99,000.00 profit on a $1,000.00 investment in one day, when her husband was a governer, and it was found to be legal.
And Deej  
WideRight : 9/1/2015 11:12 am : link
IMO you are a good person. Too good be be defending that cold mess.
RE: RE: Deej  
njm : 9/1/2015 11:24 am : link
In comment 12446470 Deej said:
Quote:
The Records Act requires preservation of certain information. What did she not preserve? She turned over 30k+ emails. What precisely are you saying she did not preserve and produce, without rampant speculation please.


What did she not preserve? Apparently about 30,000 e-mails, although some may yet be recovered. Was there an official State Department vetting of what was erased? Not that I've heard about. So what did she, and the folks who serve HER and not State decide to delete? I don't know. What I do know is that there were substantial possibilities of conflict of interest with respect to the Clinton Foundation. I don't recall a similar Powell Foundation back in the day. She was communication with Sidney Blumenthal, someone who the WH deemed a persona non grata. We've seen some e-mails. What haven't we seen? Hopefully the FBI and the various IGs can give us a clue.
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