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NFT: 8/31-Met thread-Big Papi on the Met pitching

Headhunter : 8/31/2015 8:00 am
"With that pitching staff, man, they're not too far away from walking into the money. That's a pitching staff you want in your corner."
Ortiz was  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 8:21 am : link
4 for 8 with 2 HR's and 3 RBI in the 3 games.

You have to remember  
Headhunter : 8/31/2015 8:31 am : link
that all the Met young pitchers are still figuring it out. Not one of them is a finished product including Familia
RE: You have to remember  
Ira : 8/31/2015 8:40 am : link
In comment 12444123 Headhunter said:
Quote:
that all the Met young pitchers are still figuring it out. Not one of them is a finished product including Familia


Especially Familia.
Thor  
Headhunter : 8/31/2015 8:56 am : link
said he threw the best change up of his career yesterday. He threw his 2 seamer and changeup. You add in his hook from hell. He starts throwing his off speed over at anytime in the count and you have a chance to dominate. Familiar is gaining confidence in his splitter to go with his 100 mph fastball and he becomes almost unhittable.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2015 9:15 am : link
Syndergaard worked quicker yesterday. It was an adjustment they made that seemed to benefit him and get him into a better rhythm.
I genuinely  
ZGiants98 : 8/31/2015 9:23 am : link
feel Familia will be the best closer in the NL entering the playoffs. Clippard has also been amazing.

I love that Addison Reed has a ton of experience closing. If nothing else he should be used to high pressure situations, which should bode well for the playoffs. His numbers are also excellent in a setup role. The guy still can hit 95 MPH and has an improved splitter himself recently. Optimistic he will fill the 7th inning nicely.
Bummed we have to wait until  
ZGiants98 : 8/31/2015 9:25 am : link
Thursday for Dario. We really could use his arm from the left side.
Familia  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 9:38 am : link
had a ridiculous first half and after a rocky week or so he's been very good again.

Melancon and Rosenthal have been lights out or close to it all year too.

Maybe Familia is slightly better, but I don't think he's a major difference in either way especially with his lack of post-season experience.

Rosenthal with his post-season experience is probably the leader.

Rosenthal has a .75 post-season ERA and a sub 1 WHIP.

Even Melancon has post-season experience.

might not be a huge deal, but the lack of post-season experience with a lot of the Mets is something to keep an eye on.

I hope the long delay between appearances for Wright helps him to prepare and mentor the younger guys.
RE: Thor  
Spree_8 : 8/31/2015 10:15 am : link
In comment 12444173 Headhunter said:
Quote:
said he threw the best change up of his career yesterday. He threw his 2 seamer and changeup. You add in his hook from hell. He starts throwing his off speed over at anytime in the count and you have a chance to dominate. Familiar is gaining confidence in his splitter to go with his 100 mph fastball and he becomes almost unhittable.


To me Thor's problem recently has been the inability to get his secondary pitches over for strikes early in the count. On most occasions he has fallen behind the hitter and they just sit fastball. He needs to do a better job of getting his secondary pitches over for strikes. Seems like if they don't get the fastball they just layoff and wait for one knowing that he probably won't get his curve/change over for a strike.
RE: .  
Ira : 8/31/2015 10:20 am : link
In comment 12444204 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
Syndergaard worked quicker yesterday. It was an adjustment they made that seemed to benefit him and get him into a better rhythm.


Interesting. It's fun watching these young players grow as they learn from experience.
Ira  
Headhunter : 8/31/2015 10:45 am : link
totally agree, you watch them develop before your eyes. They add pitches, take away pitches. They work the lineup one way the first 2 times through and change it the third time through. They get themselves into trouble and work their way out of it. It takes time to get past pure stuff and become consistent pitchers
Right  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 10:53 am : link
now my NL award winners would be


CY- Kershaw
MVP- Harper (by a significant margin)
ROY- Bryant
MOY- Maddon/Collins/Matheny (too close to call)


AL-
MVP- Donaldson
ROY-Correa (Lindor on his tail but far less hype, Lindor has quietly been incredible. I've always been a big fan)
CY Keuchel
MOY Too close to call between Gibbons, Hinch and Yost
RE: RE: Thor  
Metnut : 8/31/2015 10:54 am : link
In comment 12444376 Spree_8 said:
Quote:
In comment 12444173 Headhunter said:


Quote:


To me Thor's problem recently has been the inability to get his secondary pitches over for strikes early in the count. On most occasions he has fallen behind the hitter and they just sit fastball. He needs to do a better job of getting his secondary pitches over for strikes. Seems like if they don't get the fastball they just layoff and wait for one knowing that he probably won't get his curve/change over for a strike.


Good post. He gets into predictable fastball counts and good hitters are able to sit on that FB. If he doesn't locate that FB on 3-1 type of counts, good hitters are going to rake it.

If/when he starts throwing that secondary stuff for strikes and getting ahead of hitters he's going to be completely filthy.
.  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2015 10:55 am : link
I actually think if the Mets run away with the NLE, Collins is going to win NL Manager of the Year. Which would be funny.

Unrelated but I can't believe I decided not to keep Keuchel for a 17th rd pick this year. Damnit.
Damn it  
spike : 8/31/2015 10:58 am : link
I was hoping the Mets would can collins after this season
RE: Damn it  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 10:59 am : link
In comment 12444479 spike said:
Quote:
I was hoping the Mets would can collins after this season


spike,
You really thought given the Mets season they have had that Collins would be fired? He's 100% the manager next year barring them collapsing. If they lose 1st round he'll be back.
DMM how much do you like  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 10:59 am : link
Kershaw over Greinke?

Other than K's and maybe innings, Greinke is better in most stats.

I think Greinke can pull away with a good September
RE: RE: Damn it  
spike : 8/31/2015 11:02 am : link
In comment 12444485 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 12444479 spike said:


Quote:


I was hoping the Mets would can collins after this season



spike,
You really thought given the Mets season they have had that Collins would be fired? He's 100% the manager next year barring them collapsing. If they lose 1st round he'll be back.


At this rate he will be the manager for the next 5-6 years
RE: DMM how much do you like  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:06 am : link
In comment 12444486 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Kershaw over Greinke?

Other than K's and maybe innings, Greinke is better in most stats.

I think Greinke can pull away with a good September


It's not a runaway by any means but Kershaw is on pace for an 8.1 fWAR season Greinke is on pace for 6.1

Kershaw 2.10 FIP
Greinke 2.62

Kershaw on pace for 230 innings 289 k's
Greinke on pace for 209.1 innings 202 k's

I think Harper is running away with MVP however
I  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:10 am : link
love Thor but I'm happy Lindor looks this good since I said I'd do that swap before the season lol
The last Manager of the Year that I thought was an idiot  
Shecky : 8/31/2015 11:11 am : link
Might get fired this offseason, so there is hope for those who are anti Terry. Be nice if Terry did everyone a favor and retires after next season though...
Good  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:12 am : link
shot at the Mets winning at least 3 awards

Comeback player of the year- Harvey
Executive of the year- Sandy
MOY- Collins
Even Thor has an outside shot at ROY
David  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:20 am : link
Peralta only became a position player in 2011... his second half OPS... 1.012!
i love david peralta  
CMicks3110 : 8/31/2015 11:22 am : link
wanted the mets to trade for him in the off-season vs. signing cuddyer. I think he's got a legit bat; real interesting story on how he got to baseball too. Good player
Arizona  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:29 am : link
has managed to be awful despite Goldy (legit MVP good), Pollock (close to MVP caliber good) and Peralta
.  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2015 11:32 am : link
That's what happens when your pitching sucks. The Diamondbacks have close to nothing in their rotation. Corbin has been "OK" since returning.. that's about it.
Black  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:43 am : link
is back to being horrendous. I expect him to be non-tendered in the off-season.
RE: Black  
spike : 8/31/2015 11:44 am : link
In comment 12444593 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is back to being horrendous. I expect him to be non-tendered in the off-season.


at least we still have Herrera from the Byrd trade
RE: RE: Black  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 11:45 am : link
In comment 12444599 spike said:
Quote:
In comment 12444593 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


is back to being horrendous. I expect him to be non-tendered in the off-season.



at least we still have Herrera from the Byrd trade


Sure and taking back Black was a nice gamble but his arm obviously wasn't up to it. Maybe he puts it together somewhere else but can't see the Mets paying him 700-800K next year to find out.
Gee  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 12:02 pm : link
and Torres become minor league FA if not added to the 40 man. Something to keep in mind.
How does someone  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 12:18 pm : link
who actually roots for the Mets, continue to dislike Collins when the guy finally got a roster worth managing and the team took off? I can't understand what the holy hell people are looking for besides a team that plays well and up to Or exceeding expectations, and that plays hard for their manager. The team is in first place, and the guy is a manager of the year probable. There is no rational reason to continue to bash your manager besides rationalizing your own misguided previous opinion that probably only exists because he didn't have a proper team to manage in the first place. So you'd want the manager who is successfully managing the first good Met team in a decade to be canned because you want to prove your point? You were obviously wrong to begin with. The guy does his job and the team likes him and plays hard for him. Plus they are steamrolling to a possible division title. What the F do you people want)
If  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 12:23 pm : link
anything Collins will likely get a 2 year extension after the season. In an ideal world the Mets would add Pedro Lopez or Jose Leger to the coaching staff so an eventual TC retirement (let's face it... Collins IS 66) would be seamless but it's hard to pull that off.
How does  
Metnut : 8/31/2015 12:27 pm : link
someone who roots for the Mets entirely dedicate 90% of their posts to bashing other Mets fans? The team is in first place and it's almost September. Why not post about the team/players instead of calling out other posters? What do some people want?
.  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2015 12:28 pm : link
I'm generally indifferent on Collins I just get tired of reading about how it's always his fault every single time we lose a game as if we'd be 50 games over .500 with some other manager.

This team stayed above water with one of the worst lineups in baseball history for half a season and took off as soon as he was supplied with a capable roster. Sure, you can question some BP decisions here and there but I'm telling you.. there is not a manager in baseball that fans don't do that to. Fans in every city think their manager makes questionable bullpen decisions. A lot of it is just 20/20 hindsight at play.

Not looking to argue about the manager again I just find it hard to believe that the Mets would be so much better with someone else.
RE: If  
Metnut : 8/31/2015 12:28 pm : link
In comment 12444730 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
anything Collins will likely get a 2 year extension after the season. In an ideal world the Mets would add Pedro Lopez or Jose Leger to the coaching staff so an eventual TC retirement (let's face it... Collins IS 66) would be seamless but it's hard to pull that off.


Yea, I think a 2 year extension makes sense. I've never really liked Collins, but it's hard to argue with results, and the players seem to like/play hard for him.
Collins  
Kevin999 : 8/31/2015 12:38 pm : link
Collins makes a bunch of questionable decisions and has ruined the arms of several relievers. Even if they won the WS I'd want him gone. Mike Keenan won the only cup since 1940 for the Rangers yet no one wanted him coaching anymore in NY after that year.

RE: How does  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 12:51 pm : link
In comment 12444738 Metnut said:
Quote:
someone who roots for the Mets entirely dedicate 90% of their posts to bashing other Mets fans? The team is in first place and it's almost September. Why not post about the team/players instead of calling out other posters? What do some people want?


SO I can post about the team and players, but not the manager...even though that's what other posters are posting about...

How about you ask why people are talking about how they dislike the manager while the team is in first place in the middle of a pennant race? WHat is it, you happen to agree with that opinion so it's ok when people post about that crap instead of the players? Please spare me the BS.

You seem to be another guy who thinks it's weird to post opinions about other people's opinions...on a message board. Makes absolutely no sense.

Anyway, the team is playing well and people are whining about the manager. I don't feel the need to agree with and congratulate every positive poster on their opinion, but if you're still whining about the manager then yeah I think I will.
RE: Collins  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 12:52 pm : link
In comment 12444766 Kevin999 said:
Quote:
Collins makes a bunch of questionable decisions and has ruined the arms of several relievers. Even if they won the WS I'd want him gone. Mike Keenan won the only cup since 1940 for the Rangers yet no one wanted him coaching anymore in NY after that year.


who exactly are you talking about?
Met nut  
Rory : 8/31/2015 12:56 pm : link
I'm with Seth and Arc on this. Hearing so called "Met's Fans" bash the manager day in day out through game threads during a pennant race is nauseating.

anyone like kevin here ^^^ who proposes that TC should still be fired after a championship appearence needs to find another team to be a shitty fan for.
I'm also indifferent on Collins  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 12:59 pm : link
I have yet to see the baseball manager that doesn't get second guessed on decisions. Pitching changes, lineup changes, pinch hitters, bunting or not, hit and run, etc.

If he's fired I won't lose a second sleep over it.

Do I think he can be upgraded? Absolutely, but who can't?

The things I didn't like were when he seemingly refused to play Flores and he definitely didn't seem to handle the kid in a positive way and sadly it seemed like that had an impact on Flores, who we now know to be kind of sensitive.

Maybe a Maddon or Torre handles him differently. Did it impact games? Probably not, but it doesn't endear Collins to fans who mostly like Flores.
Torre managing this bullpen would get lit up thread after thread  
schabadoo : 8/31/2015 1:11 pm : link
Proctor and Villone come to mind.

You can be a good fan  
Kevin999 : 8/31/2015 1:13 pm : link
and still dislike your manager. Collins has a well documented history of over using certain relievers, especially lefties, starting with Pedro Feliciano. He's not the worst manager but there a certainly better ones.

Not liking Collins  
Shecky : 8/31/2015 1:19 pm : link
I'm the first to admit it - I have never liked Collins as a manager. I didn't a few years ago, I didn't this offseason, and I still don't today. The fact that the team is winning doesn't change my opinion of him as a manager. Isn't it more hypocritical to suddenly sing his praise rather than stick to my opinion of him?
RE: Torre managing this bullpen would get lit up thread after thread  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 1:21 pm : link
In comment 12444851 schabadoo said:
Quote:
Proctor and Villone come to mind.

That was Jerry Manuel with Feliciano

Collins only managed Feliciano for part of 2013, Manuel was the one who had Feliciano lead the league in appearances 3 years in a row, not Collins.

I simply referred to Torre for his handling of players. Former players rave about it.

Almost all managers get their go-to guys in the bullpen, like TC with Torres.


.  
arcarsenal : 8/31/2015 1:24 pm : link
I don't care if people like Collins or not, I just think it's unrealistic and unfair to blame managers every time a team loses a game.

I've yet to see any actual evidence that Terry is a below average manager or that we'd be markedly better with someone else.

Would I rather have gotten a hold of Maddon when he was briefly available last winter? Sure. Do I think the Mets would be in much different shape had that been the case? I doubt it.
I don't particularly  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 1:40 pm : link
Have some great love for Collins. I don't love any manager or coach until they win. Until then it's just whether I think they are doing a good job or not. That's the thing that I don't understand. Even if you don't like Collins, how could you not admit that he's done a good job when he finally got a team? What's the measure of a manager if it's not how well his team is playing and are they playing to expectations? His team is in first place and has played extremely well.

By the way Mike Keenan left by his own choice and in a shady way by talking to another team and arranging his move behind the scenes. He wasn't fired after winning a championship. Luckily no one with the power to do so would fire his championship winning manager because it makes no sense whatsoever.
RE: Not liking Collins  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 1:43 pm : link
In comment 12444871 Shecky said:
Quote:
I'm the first to admit it - I have never liked Collins as a manager. I didn't a few years ago, I didn't this offseason, and I still don't today. The fact that the team is winning doesn't change my opinion of him as a manager. Isn't it more hypocritical to suddenly sing his praise rather than stick to my opinion of him?


I see your point but why wouldn't you alter your opinion of him after seeing what his team is doing when they are not injured or complete? In other words, how could he be a poor manager if his team is playing so well and may win the division?
kinda related  
sshin05 : 8/31/2015 1:55 pm : link
Mitchel Lichtman ‏@mitchellichtman
Hiring someone to manage who has no managerial experience suggests to me that managing is a really easy job or it's a terrible idea.
lol  
sshin05 : 8/31/2015 1:56 pm : link
Mitchel Lichtman ‏@mitchellichtman
That occurred to me when I read that CIN was contemplating hiring Larkin as manager.

...

Job posting: "Fortune 500 company looking for CEO. Salary around a half million dollars. No experience necessary."
It hard to prove one way or another  
Kevin999 : 8/31/2015 1:57 pm : link
what the Mets record would be with a different manager. However, there are some maddening Collins moments.
The innings limits for Harvey etc has been known for a long time now. Look back a month ago, vs LA, after 5 the Mets had an 8-1 lead, then 10-1 after 6, yet he sends Harvey out to pitch the 7th. A few starts later vs the Marlins he had a 7-0 lead after 5 and again went 7. Then this past weekend, Harvey is yanked with only a 2-0 lead after 6. Most people would have done the exact opposite and pulled Harvey after 6 in the other two games and let him pitch the 7th vs the Sox.
RE: Met nut  
Ten Ton Hammer : 8/31/2015 1:58 pm : link
In comment 12444818 Rory said:
Quote:
I'm with Seth and Arc on this. Hearing so called "Met's Fans" bash the manager day in day out through game threads during a pennant race is nauseating.

anyone like kevin here ^^^ who proposes that TC should still be fired after a championship appearence needs to find another team to be a shitty fan for.


Being a fan and being a homer are two different things.
RE: RE: Met nut  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 2:21 pm : link
In comment 12444987 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 12444818 Rory said:


Quote:


I'm with Seth and Arc on this. Hearing so called "Met's Fans" bash the manager day in day out through game threads during a pennant race is nauseating.

anyone like kevin here ^^^ who proposes that TC should still be fired after a championship appearence needs to find another team to be a shitty fan for.



Being a fan and being a homer are two different things.


On BBI a homer is someone who doesn't destroy his or her favorite team for every infraction against the media or fans (ie. losing, bad trades, draft picks, hirings). A fan on BBI is someone who completely despises his or her favorite team and makes it known up to the point when the team plays well or makes good decisions. At that point the fan forgets their prior hatred and daily criticism and begins to show the support that they feel is only justified when the team is good. They also act like they never said that their favorite team is a MILE away from winning anything once that team starts becoming successful. The fan also cannot deal with the perceived homer because the homer is being a bit too supportive when said team is average or worse. The homer can't deal with the fan because the fan mood and opinion of the team often sways with a single win or loss, and may even be affected by the sports media to the point of emotional distress.
That's beyond an exaggeration Seth  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 2:26 pm : link
I think most of the BBI Mets fans are reasonable.

We haven't played a meaningful September baseball game is what? 7 years?

It takes a while to buy in to what you're seeing when you have seen only flashes or poor results for so long.

But I do think even the harshest critics on here (your fans) are complimentary of all the good we've seen. We have a legit championship caliber rotation. The lineup got a major shot in the arm with Cespedes and Wright (the addition of Uribe to a lesser extent) and if Duda comes back should be plenty "good enough" to win.

The bullpen had been leaky in the 7th inning and you have to give Sandy credit for his deadline acquisitions and even waiver trades for Clippard and now Reed. You can tell he senses now is the time to strike because the Mets are legit contenders.

However....I don't think it's unreasonable to feel like the bullpen and lineup still need to prove they can be consistent for this team to actually follow through and go on a run.

acknowledging deficiencies in your team does not make you a hater of your team.
Most fans are good fans  
Headhunter : 8/31/2015 2:31 pm : link
that see the same things differently, no big deal. At the end of the day if we get to where we want to be, we will all express elation in our own ways.
Even a little under the radar  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 2:40 pm : link
move like EYJ could prove beneficial, some people forget Dave Roberts stealing 2nd in the bottom of the 9th down 4-3 helped the Red Sox overcome the 0- 3 deficit to the Yankees in the ALCS in 2004, having a guy on your bench to pinch run and steal a base just shows me the way Sandy is thinking.

It's the first time in 5 years of Sandy the Mets have been buyers at the deadline and he's added Cespedes, Clippard (two huge additions), Uribe and K. Johnson (two role players that improve other areas with a domino like effect), added EOF (that one hasn't worked out, but Loogy was a need, can't fault the effort), and now Reed and EYJ.

I like the way he's thinking now to shore up the weaknesses and give this team a legit chance to win.

pj  
SethFromAstoria : 8/31/2015 2:58 pm : link
was just playing around man.
RE: pj  
pjcas18 : 8/31/2015 3:01 pm : link
In comment 12445093 SethFromAstoria said:
Quote:
was just playing around man.


LOL, you never know I do believe most BBI Mets fans are reasonable, but we do have some extremists.
That  
DanMetroMan : 8/31/2015 3:43 pm : link
quote seems silly to me. Why must someone need experience at something to be good at it, even if it's difficult? Larkin (in this case) has presumably been around managers and coaches for what? 30+ years? He's been in the clubhouse etc. Not saying he'd do a good job by I don't think it proves it's not a "hard" job if you can do it without previous managerial experience.
The way I feel about Met fans  
Headhunter : 8/31/2015 3:50 pm : link
can be best explained by the smile I have internally when I see someone in a random place wearing a Met cap or TShirt. All Met fans go through stuff but come out of it Met fans. It's all good
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