There are a total of 42 active players in the NFL from Boston College and Syracuse in the NFL. Divided by 32 teams, in an equal distribution, there would be 1 BC/Syracuse player on 69% of teams, 2 on 31% of teams. The Giants lead the NFL with 7 guys on their current roster from those two colleges. The next closest is Pittsburgh that has 4, two teams have 3 and a few have 2. About half the league have no Boston College/Syracuse grads on their rosters.
While we don't know the inner workings of the Giants draft room/free agency signings, our coach obviously has connections to both of those schools and it's not a big jump to say he probably had some influence in bringing them in. While we've had great success with a guy like Snee, there are other guys who either have not succeeded, too early to tell or are backup material.
You have to wonder if bias/politics has played a role in some of the selections over the years and whether that has on the whole has hampered the talent selection by not diversifying or going with a program they may not know as well.
Talk to the Bills or Browns about long periods of suck, not us.
Still the best football college name ever!
Just having a little fun with this.
1) 3 (THREE) players from BC, which is as many as from East Carolina (Matt Dodge or Guy Whimper anyone? L Joseph the other). Snee, Kiwi, A. Williams. All pretty good players, Snee borderline HOF. 3 also from USC, Alabama, Auburn, Mich, NC, NC St., TX, Troy
2) 5 from SYR: Will Allen, Pugh, Bromley, Tyree, Nassib. Again, Allen, Pugh and Tyree all productive and Pugh maybe better than that. Tyree a special teams ace. Jury out on Bromley and Nassib.
3) 6 from Miami. That's right, the U. 6 is the MOST from any one school since 2000. In addition to the 4 #1s, Sinorice Moss in rd 2, Darryl Jones in rd 7. Last time I checked, the U was not known for producing choir boys.
4) The only other schools with more that 3 are WIS with 4 (all busts (Dayne, Griesen, Beckum and Kolodziej) and LSU with 4 (Beckham, Jr, Randle, Jones, Webster. 3 productive at minimum, 1 injured in an accident was highly regarded)
5) as for your "Catholic school bias" claim, in addition to the 3 from BC, they took 2 from Notre Dame (one a great Giant in Tuck, one hampered thus far by injury Bennett Jackson)
see attached for the details if you care to actually learn the truth.
Players drafted between 2000 and 2015, by the New York Giants - ( New Window )
They will stumble but just keep coming!
They will stumble but just keep coming!
Yes Fats, their stamina is amazing.
Victor - Your draft stats also ignore free agent signings and who is on the roster today. I'm also not concerned about pre-2004, because Coughlin was not the coach.
My point is that relative to the NFL, which averages 1 player per roster from those two middle of the pack schools combined, we have 7 which is a major discrepancy. And that you would hope that the Giants look far and wide for the best players available and don't predispose to building a roster with graduates for certain programs where Coughlin - who is heavily engaged in the talent selection process - has a soft spot. If you look at the Pugh pick, it was labelled a reach at the time by many draft analysts, and as pointed out above, there are far superior players who were selected shortly afterwards, including a cowboys center who is going to make life miserable for our defensive tackles for many years to come.
I have no problems with any of the Cuse/BC players. I am hoping Pugh has a nice bounce back year, Williams because the best short yardadge/red zone back in the league, Bromley beomes a factor in the DL rotation, etc.
This board is the fucking pits lately. I am not saying I am the most positive poster.... but some people here take all the joy of even following this team.
Victor - Your draft stats also ignore free agent signings and who is on the roster today. I'm also not concerned about pre-2004, because Coughlin was not the coach.
My point is that relative to the NFL, which averages 1 player per roster from those two middle of the pack schools combined, we have 7 which is a major discrepancy. And that you would hope that the Giants look far and wide for the best players available and don't predispose to building a roster with graduates for certain programs where Coughlin - who is heavily engaged in the talent selection process - has a soft spot. If you look at the Pugh pick, it was labelled a reach at the time by many draft analysts, and as pointed out above, there are far superior players who were selected shortly afterwards, including a cowboys center who is going to make life miserable for our defensive tackles for many years to come.
Hey I work for a living! It took me long enough to do this!
And TC may not have been the coach, but Ernie Accorsi was the GM and one Jerry Reese the head college scout.
I'm not trying to be a downer, just exploring to what extent are the Giants and other teams biased towards bringing in players from certain programs relative to the rest of the league.
I have no problems with any of the Cuse/BC players. I am hoping Pugh has a nice bounce back year, Williams because the best short yardadge/red zone back in the league, Bromley beomes a factor in the DL rotation, etc.
This board is the fucking pits lately. I am not saying I am the most positive poster.... but some people here take all the joy of even following this team.
Well said but I think Manny in CA is a better comparison right now than Rich in Houston. Too many attention whores with no clue on how limited their understanding of the subject matter is are currently completing for clicks. Fun times on BBI
I have no problems with any of the Cuse/BC players. I am hoping Pugh has a nice bounce back year, Williams because the best short yardadge/red zone back in the league, Bromley beomes a factor in the DL rotation, etc.
This board is the fucking pits lately. I am not saying I am the most positive poster.... but some people here take all the joy of even following this team.
Having said all that, most of them were overdrafted. Only Snee and Williams are plus picks.
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is turning into the Rich in Houston type poster. Its just better to ignore him rather than respond.
I have no problems with any of the Cuse/BC players. I am hoping Pugh has a nice bounce back year, Williams because the best short yardadge/red zone back in the league, Bromley beomes a factor in the DL rotation, etc.
This board is the fucking pits lately. I am not saying I am the most positive poster.... but some people here take all the joy of even following this team.
like I told you before, troll, get off my threads.
No. And there isnt a damn thing you are going to do about it either.
A) Was not drafted
B) Has been a very good ST player for us
C) Had 0 expectations of making the team
Is he the greatest LB? Of course not. But people bitch and complain our ST suck, and now we are going to criticize a player just because he went to a certain school? Holy fucking shit.
A guy like Clearly is a camp body, but lets criticize him since he went to BC.
We had no LB depth, so we signed a guy on the cheap who performed well from the Ravens. Oh wait, he went to Cuse? Nevermind, lets criticize it. I am sure the number 1 reason why we signed McClain was because he went to Syracuse. FFS.
Pugh is going to be a 12 year starter? Fuck, he would have been a 15 year starter if he wasnt from Syracuse.
Mind blowing this place has become.
I officially hand off the Mocking of the Game threads to you.
I'm not trying to be a downer, just exploring to what extent are the Giants and other teams biased towards bringing in players from certain programs relative to the rest of the league.
You're explaining nothing. You are a fool who refuses to accept facts. Using BBIs Draft and UDFA reviews from 2011 -2015, here are the facts:
1) In the 5 year period, the Giants have signed 56 players from 47 different schools.
2) Only 1 (ONE) was from BC, Herzlich. None (ZERO) were from SYR, 1 (ONE) from Notre Dame.
3) 8 schools had more the one. the leader? Richmond with 3. Miami and 7 others had 2.
4) A quick scan of all UDFA signings going back from 2010 to 2004 (for your benefit moron) shows that they signed players from an similarly large swath of schools and only 1 (ONE!) each from BC, SYR and ND (Ryan Grant, who became a pretty good back for Green Bay).
5) If anything, the same pattern of Miami and ACC schools holds up.
So where is the bias? The UFA scorecard doesn't have the schools, and I don't know enough of them off the top of my head to analyze.
I officially hand off the Mocking of the Game threads to you.
I cant believe I was ever this bad. And I get being frustrated and angry with the team, injuries, and play. But holy shit. For as bad as we played last year, we were a handful of plays from a winning record.
Yes, WINNING record.
As if guys like Pugh, Williams, Bromley or Nassib are somehow not worthy of playing for the Giants or being drafted by any NFL team. All of these guys are in the very early stages of their careers and this guy decides he can pass some sort of judgement? What a bizarre way of thinking.
As if guys like Pugh, Williams, Bromley or Nassib are somehow not worthy of playing for the Giants or being drafted by any NFL team. All of these guys are in the very early stages of their careers and this guy decides he can pass some sort of judgement? What a bizarre way of thinking.
Is that all we need to have a better team is draft players from good schools?
If a player is good - it doesn't matter where he played - and it was broken down pretty well for you above. What the fuck are some teams thinking taking players from Hofstra or Appalachain State?
Is that all we need to have a better team is draft players from good schools?
If a player is good - it doesn't matter where he played - and it was broken down pretty well for you above. What the fuck are some teams thinking taking players from Hofstra or Appalachain State?
We need more William Josephs, Daryl Jones, and Sinorice Moss's on this team!!!!
Trent Richardson.
Mark Barron.
What difference does it make where they went to school.
What you should be saying is how glad you are that the Giants have some high-character, hard working, and talented players from these two schools. Pugh, Bromley, Williams, and Nassib all represent these traits yet you want to make an argument that what - that don't deserve to be here? There are better options available? What exactly is your point?
Does the fact that McClain wasn't drafted by the Giants make him exempt from your ramblings?
How about Emmett Cleary who was an UDFA for the Colts? Does he count?
That brings the count down to five. Does that cure your delicate sensibilities?
The Giants also have three guys from UMASS. And four from Ole Miss. My point? I don't have one. Just like you.
What difference does it make where they went to school.
What you should be saying is how glad you are that the Giants have some high-character, hard working, and talented players from these two schools. Pugh, Bromley, Williams, and Nassib all represent these traits yet you want to make an argument that what - that don't deserve to be here? There are better options available? What exactly is your point?
Does the fact that McClain wasn't drafted by the Giants make him exempt from your ramblings?
How about Emmett Cleary who was an UDFA for the Colts? Does he count?
That brings the count down to five. Does that cure your delicate sensibilities?
The Giants also have three guys from UMASS. And four from Ole Miss. My point? I don't have one. Just like you.
Be careful. He has been proven wrong by just about everyone when he posts ridiculous things (he said Eli played with more talent in his career than Peyton by the way) and he gets all hissy and calls you a troll.
He doesnt even know what a troll is, in case you were wondering.
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In comment 12445867 Les in TO said:
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Could have selected Kyle long or Travis Frederick two guys who will be going to the pro bowl for years to come. But keep on telling yourselves that Pugh was the bpa and that he was looked at objectively regardless of his alma matter. And this is not hind sight, at the time of the Pugh selection many thought it was a reach
don't forget the Sintim pick...if anything was a "do-me-a-solid, buddy"-Al Groh pick, that was it... which made absolutely no sense, scheme-wise.
Another stupid post. Yeah, they blew a 2nd round pick just to do Al Groh a solid. You are sho'nuff an idiot if you really believe that.
I don't buy the BC/Syracuse bias, but there is no other explanation for the Sintim pick? Do I believe Al Groh really asked TC to pick Sintim as a favor? Of course not. But do I believe Al Groh's influence held a lot more weight and was instrumental in reaching for Sintim? Absolutely.
The signs were there before the draft. There were articles citing Al Groh, TC, Sintim and, I'm pretty sure, the use of the word "enamored".
What difference does it make where they went to school.
What you should be saying is how glad you are that the Giants have some high-character, hard working, and talented players from these two schools. Pugh, Bromley, Williams, and Nassib all represent these traits yet you want to make an argument that what - that don't deserve to be here? There are better options available? What exactly is your point?
Does the fact that McClain wasn't drafted by the Giants make him exempt from your ramblings?
How about Emmett Cleary who was an UDFA for the Colts? Does he count?
That brings the count down to five. Does that cure your delicate sensibilities?
The Giants also have three guys from UMASS. And four from Ole Miss. My point? I don't have one. Just like you.
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the state of Illinois?
What difference does it make where they went to school.
What you should be saying is how glad you are that the Giants have some high-character, hard working, and talented players from these two schools. Pugh, Bromley, Williams, and Nassib all represent these traits yet you want to make an argument that what - that don't deserve to be here? There are better options available? What exactly is your point?
Does the fact that McClain wasn't drafted by the Giants make him exempt from your ramblings?
How about Emmett Cleary who was an UDFA for the Colts? Does he count?
That brings the count down to five. Does that cure your delicate sensibilities?
The Giants also have three guys from UMASS. And four from Ole Miss. My point? I don't have one. Just like you.
people complain about the talent and depth on our roster. looking at the roster, it struck me how much of a connection there was to two middling football program schools where our head coach has connections. and then looking at the stats, we are complete outliers in terms of signing/drafting talent from those schools. I've made my point clearly - I think our talent selection at times has been unduly biased by soft spots for these two institutions at the expense of better players (see Pugh example above).
and you would be 1000% wrong, like usual. It's downright comical the nonsense you post at this point.
Who are the alternatives that the Giants should have on the roster?
Who are the alternatives that the Giants should have on the roster?
those institutes are too smart too have good players. imagine if we decided to go the Stanford route and draft those scrubs like luck and Richard sherman. we would be totally fucked.
not saying it would have haopened.... but isn't Watson out for the year already?
and he may be better.... but the idea of taking an OL at the time made a lot of sense.
Other than Menelik Watson I guess. Who was picked in the 40s - the second round. If you're going to argue that they should have traded up from 49 and not go with Hankins that's a completely different discussion.
The OP isn't offering anything other than arbitrary guesses.
But the OP has made an ill advised attempt to argue that these players from BC and Cuse are on the roster at the detriment to the team without actually showing any evidence and offering only weak guesses.
Other than Menelik Watson I guess. Who was picked in the 40s - the second round. If you're going to argue that they should have traded up from 49 and not go with Hankins that's a completely different discussion.
The OP isn't offering anything other than arbitrary guesses.
I provided a specific example where we reached for a Syracuse player in the first round when there were better ranked players from Wisconsin and Oregon on the board - both at the time and in hind sight. Surprise, those players have been to three pro bowls already while Pugh has been up and down, especially as a run blocker. We could have locked down a center or guard for the next decade.
It is too early to tell whether Bromley, Williams and Nassib were hits or misses.
McLain is JAG and Herzlich has shown he has no business being out there on a pro defense. Unga seems to have more ability than Herzlich to make plays, but I won't be shocked if he is the odd man out at LB. We will see whether or not Cleary makes the final cut.
Do I have hard proof that Coughlin was politicking in the draft room and behind the scenes during free agency to bring these guys in based on his connections? No, I don't have that access to information. But just as it's not hard to see why the broncos have 4 out of central Colorado's 8 alumni in the NL, it's not hard to make inferences why the Giants have an unusual concentration of BC/Syracuse guys on their roster.
A lot of football guys aren't high on Oregon Guards (not to mention the Giants wanted a versatile guy who can play any of the spots on the OL) and the Giants didn't need a C. So your weak attempt at bringing in Long and Frederick is easily countered. (not to mention that Frederick would have been a colossal reach almost 20 spots lower than Pugh and you would have bitched and moaned about that).
During the day of the draft as it went into the early dinner hours it wasn't a surprise to some of us who knew a thing or two.
And you say it's too early for the other guys? Huh. Ok.
And again - we're not even talking about undrafted guys or long vets like Herzlich or McClain. Come on. (although i will concede this - I wouldn't be surprised if John Mara wanted him kept around)
First off, Frederick and Long WERE NOT rated higher than Pugh coming into the draft. As a matter of fgact Pugh was the fastest growing player in the 2013 draft. Not only was he a need for the Giants, he provided tremendous value at a position that we needed. Like B said, he was hurt last year after a pretty good rookie year.
Again, you have no basis for your argument. So Frederick and Long have turned out to be pretty good players? Well no shit, sometimes later picks turned out to be pretty good. But if you are going by all-pros and pro bowls to judge how good a player is, you are in fucking fantasy land.
Here's something you havent caught onto yet. Teams who win gets players who receive the accolades. If the Giants were in the playoffs last year, Pugh would have no doubt been a pro bowler despite if he was injured or not. Look back to when Diehl was a pro bowler. The years he made it, there was no doubt he was our worst OL, but the team succeeded despite him.
You have absolutely no validity to this argument or to any others you make. Dorgan summed it up the best. Just Les being Les.
Les knows more than Mayock as well!!! - ( New Window )
A lot of football guys aren't high on Oregon Guards (not to mention the Giants wanted a versatile guy who can play any of the spots on the OL) and the Giants didn't need a C. So your weak attempt at bringing in Long and Frederick is easily countered. (not to mention that Frederick would have been a colossal reach almost 20 spots lower than Pugh and you would have bitched and moaned about that).
During the day of the draft as it went into the early dinner hours it wasn't a surprise to some of us who knew a thing or two.
And you say it's too early for the other guys? Huh. Ok.
And again - we're not even talking about undrafted guys or long vets like Herzlich or McClain. Come on. (although i will concede this - I wouldn't be surprised if John Mara wanted him kept around)
Will agree to disagree on Pugh in 2013. I didn't see his play as outstanding.
Let's see how he does at OG
Now for the real question. What's the best Mexican food in Toronto? And keep me away from downtown core nonsense please.
And I need the best bar for drinks. Totally casual. Authentic and local. Not in a hotel. Somewhere that the locals go. Any neighborhood.
Now for the real question. What's the best Mexican food in Toronto? And keep me away from downtown core nonsense please.
And I need the best bar for drinks. Totally casual. Authentic and local. Not in a hotel. Somewhere that the locals go. Any neighborhood.
Grand Electric (parkdale) and Playa Cabana (three locations) are great authentic casual Mexican spots. Music in GE can get loud so recommend patio in the back Civil Liberties if you are a cocktail guy Mill street brewery or bell woods brewery if you are a beer drinker The Good Son is quite lively. Ossington Parkdale areas are where a lot of the action is. King west is more of the club/bottle service scene