the last preseason game to make cuts? You would figure with additional injuries likely to occur, and the limited playing time the starters will see, it would allow borderline players more playing time to make a favorable impression with their current team or at least get a bit more film.
Again, there are 4 days between cuts...and one or no practice. How is a team supposed to evaluate a player who can't even play in the last preseason game for their new team?
RE: RE: RE: Jets cut James Brewer and Matt LaCosse
Again, there are 4 days between cuts...and one or no practice. How is a team supposed to evaluate a player who can't even play in the last preseason game for their new team?
I get what you are saying, but Stevie Brown kind of contradicts it.
Again, there are 4 days between cuts...and one or no practice. How is a team supposed to evaluate a player who can't even play in the last preseason game for their new team?
Eric i am not talking a player that is undrafted rookie or a player that only has 1 or 2 years in the league...
I am talking the players that are veterans that have years on their resume and the team they were on knew they were not going to make the team...
Yes you see a lot of no names cut but you see more veterans cut during this cut period then the 2nd cut period...
Most teams will cut a veteran early rather than wait until the final cut..
would be that a lot of teams will actually wait until after week 1 to sign vets of his nature to fill out the last couple roster spots (unless they are desperate).
Its likely there will be a handful of players better than Stevie
I agree 100 percent. It's stupid. You're just asking for an important player to get hurt because of some dumb two-cut system.
Also agree. I was actually going to start a thread on why there are two sets of cuts, instead of just cutting all at once after the last preseason game.
Again, there are 4 days between cuts...and one or no practice. How is a team supposed to evaluate a player who can't even play in the last preseason game for their new team?
They are saying veterans, not UDFA rookies. Plenty of tape of the vets getting cut to evaluate.
...
It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
LOL...and, remember, he's got left tackle feet, and he's done nothing but improve during those four years....If it weren't such a spot on indictment of this regime, it would almost be amusing...almost
...
It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
LOL...and, remember, he's got left tackle feet, and he's done nothing but improve during those four years....If it weren't such a spot on indictment of this regime, it would almost be amusing...almost
You've got to keep in mind that maybe they knew how bad Brewer sucked but he was still better than the alternatives they had on the roster, which is just as big an indictment. Other than maybe McCants, what kind of talent has been around?
Of course he is going to get at least 3 years to prove himself. Thats not an indictment on the front office. Its a part of the process in developing drafted players.
Now granted, he never developed and that's a problem. Physically, he had everything you'd want out of a tackle and that's why he was drafted. But giving a player like that 4 years to get it together is not unheard of.
Signing as a free agent with the Jets or any team, I would expect a much shorter leash.
heh, I like Bill in UT's take on this better than yours, FatOne, lol.
You can look at it your way, Charlotte, and feign outrage at the ignorant fan base who dare chastise the FO for the way it has handled the draft and FA, but I look at it in terms of the four years' opportunity cost:
Somehow, 30 other teams were able to assemble offensive lines during the past four years, five players across--let's say four, because Brewer could not play C--so 120 players have been established as NFL caliber. But some O lines are worse than the Giants', but most have been better, can we agree on that? So, whether it's hidebound stubborness in keeping one of Jerry's picks around, or an inability to assess talent and cut the player if he doesn't have it, the Giants hung on to this guy for going on four years.
That's a long, long time for 120 OL other players who made it on to other teams' rosters in each year to have been rejected because we opted to keep Brewer. The coaching staff only played the guy when they had absolutely NO OTHER OPTION!!
You're right: you can't make this stuff up. How is it that none of these other low round draftees or FAs that populate other teams capable OLs never made it here? Finally, JR called his own bluff and began to draft them high to address the glaring deficiencies.
It's way more than another team cut one of our cuts.
maybe three years is not too long, maybe it is; maybe three-to-four years is reasonable with some clubs. My consistent take with Reese's drafts is that when players don't see the field with some significant playing time by year two, they just don't have it. I can't think of a significant exception, but I could be wrong.
I think the coaching staff is not playing them because they believe they can't cut it, although the Kuhn thing is worrying in reverse. It has not been that TC does not trust playing 1st or 2nd year players; by now, that much is clear.
Jury still out and GS is still well within a rational developmental timetable.
Except for idiot posters, what would you suppose the development time-frame for a college spread offense QB moving into an NFL standard offense should be? Add that it was one without healthy receiving talent until this year.
Brewer never showed anything with the Jets to change the slotting at RT. Giacomini was the returning starter - slotted with 1st unit. Qvale was on the PS for the Jets concentrating on RT last year - slotted with 2nd unit. Brewer was the new guy - slotted as the spare and remained with the 3rd unit.
Jury still out and GS is still well within a rational developmental timetable.
Except for idiot posters, what would you suppose the development time-frame for a college spread offense QB moving into an NFL standard offense should be? Add that it was one without healthy receiving talent until this year.
Brewer never showed anything with the Jets to change the slotting at RT. Giacomini was the returning starter - slotted with 1st unit. Qvale was on the PS for the Jets concentrating on RT last year - slotted with 2nd unit. Brewer was the new guy - slotted as the spare and remained with the 3rd unit.
I'm sorry you feel like it's irrational hatred. He's walking turnover, and also a knucklehead. 34 interceptions in 30 games, and that's not even counting all the fumbles.
develop or whether he showed how awful an OT he is by the Jets cutting him so quickly or whether we kept him on the roster too long or any other similar issue.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
with Donnel, a better pass catcher (when he holds on to the football) than he is a blocker, and, on balance, he's in the game when it's more likely the Giants are going with a passing play, doesn't that tend to give defensive coordinators keys they would not otherwise have if a two-way (i.e., catching + blocking) TE, e.g., Cunningham were in? I don't know how Fauria stacks up that way.
drafting Brewer was the best move, but the analysis to support this is incredible.
We gave a young, raw player time to develop and he didn't, and then we moved on. Referencing the players taken after him is fairly useless. You can do the same for selected failed draft picks on any team.
By the way, who out of that lot behind him is going to make a massive impact in 2015? Pretty much all we are debating is the loss of a scrub. The assumption is if Brewer wasn't the pick, we'd have selected a consistent starter and contributor.
I know Fauria was playing as a second TE, but you'd think he would be given the opportunity to play more instead of the Lions going out and trading for a TE. THat would seem to indicate a lack of faith by the team.
Fauria is definitely more of a pass-catcher than a blocker
I know Fauria was playing as a second TE, but you'd think he would be given the opportunity to play more instead of the Lions going out and trading for a TE. THat would seem to indicate a lack of faith by the team.
And Donnell was behind Fells on the depth chart also. And Fauria was the third TE behind Pettigrew and Ebron.
Some of you are just outright ignorant. The Brewer pick was a mistake. Nobody is defending the pick. But, list the GMs in the league who have not made a mistake with a 4th round pick. It's not hard to draft someone with a 4th round pick who turns out to be a bust. And, every GM has screwed up on higher picks as well. Nobody is defending the Austin pick either. But, overall Reese has drafted ok and has the jewelry on his hand to prove it and how many GMs can do that?
with Donnel, a better pass catcher (when he holds on to the football) than he is a blocker, and, on balance, he's in the game when it's more likely the Giants are going with a passing play, doesn't that tend to give defensive coordinators keys they would not otherwise have if a two-way (i.e., catching + blocking) TE, e.g., Cunningham were in? I don't know how Fauria stacks up that way.
I don't know where he stands on that either, though the local papers seem to think that Fauria is a strictly pass-catching player. The move is an interesting one because Wright is a pass-catching tight end, with 80 receptions for 830 yards and 11 touchdowns the past two years. And Detroit already has two pass-catching tight ends in Eric Ebron and Joseph Fauria, plus blocking tight end Brandon Pettigrew.
Ebron and Pettigrew, both former first-round picks, aren't going anywhere.
That means Wright's addition casts some uncertainty of Fauria's future with Detroit.
Ebron has been a huge disappointment so far in Detroit
develop or whether he showed how awful an OT he is by the Jets cutting him so quickly or whether we kept him on the roster too long or any other similar issue.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Reese gets a lot of criticism from me but you're reall reaching when you are talking about 13 players(and only 3 starters) that were drafted after the fourth round bust. 4th rounders and players after that round don't usually pan out.
RE: FatMan: IMO the issues are not whether we gave Brewer 4 years to
develop or whether he showed how awful an OT he is by the Jets cutting him so quickly or whether we kept him on the roster too long or any other similar issue.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Well to be fair -- pick every other GMs Round 4 pick over the past five years years and for each one that has washed out, see how many picks after him are still playing.
Have fun. See you next year.
FatMan: I would agree with your logic if there only 2 or 3
players drafted after Brewer who are still in the NFL. But, we're talking about 13 players drafted after him. Reese didn't think any of the 13 were better than Brewer?
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
I'm not judging other GMs because I'm holding Reese accountable for the current poor state of the team, the failure to make the playoffs and the talenthe has given TC to work
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Saying it was a mistake to take anyone in the fourth round is absurd. Its not a mistake to take someone then just because they didn't work out.
Picking George Rogers 1st in the 1981 draft, ahead of Lawrence Taylor, was a mistake. It was clear Taylor was going to be a star.
Picking anyone ahead of Michael Jordan in the NBA draft was a mistake. Clearly Jordan was going to be a once in a lifetime player.
But picking anyone in the 4th round is a risk. Maybe a few turn out to be starters or even stars but most don't. The fault is on Brewer not Reese. Any GM can't see inside a college player to determine if they have the desire and commitment to do what it takes to make it.
I'm a new member as I just found out about this site yesterday from a fellow poster at BBV who was venting his frustration about how much he didn't agree with your assessment of how downright shitty Eli has been and continues to play. That forced me to come check out the website as I too have had many gripes about our $25 million dollar QB.
Also, I have an OT question about the line play since I've been busy and I live in the Bay Area so didn't get a chance to watch the game.
I noticed Jerry had the best PFF score of any of our lineman and took snaps at both guard and tackle. Did anybody notice how many snaps and how well he played on the outside?
He apparently had one of his best season in MIA when he was moved outside and I personally think that move might serve him and us better. Is there any chance he is our answer at RT until Beatty comes back as I'm not too much looking forward to a half season plus of Newhouse as our starter.
I'm not judging other GMs because I'm holding Reese accountable for the current poor state of the team, the failure to make the playoffs and the talenthe has given TC to work
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Steve in criticizing Reese you are implying there are better ones out there (surely you are not arguing we should have no GM). So by definition it is a relative issue.
When I read essay exams I learned quickly that I needed to go through the batch without grading. We can all have some mythical ideal standard -- but probably not fair to make decisions without the relative context.
RE: Its likely there will be a handful of players better than Stevie
available before week 1 but we will stick with Stevie.
We need to sign Landry...who has enough experience to help balance our current rosters lack of experience. Between Meriweather, who hasn't played in a full season since 2010 and Cooper Taylor who has ended the last two years on IR without ever making it onto a game field, we are very thin with a very high likelihood that our already tough situation gets a lot worse quick. Why I a player that has averaged over 100 tackles over the last 5 years and hasn't missed a game since 2008? He could be the STABLE veteran presence that we are badly missing right now.
Brown because there are 23 other players in Rounds 5 through 7 who are still in the NFL while we' were drafting Tracy and Dodge. Typing all of those other 23 players would take too much time. Of those 23 other than Hardy, Motas and Brown, there are4 starters..
My point is that Reese is supposed to be a Draft guru but in Rounds 4 through 7 each of the players he drafted in 2011 is no longer in the NFL. One of these days when I have time, I'll check whether any other GM has the same record, that is, no player drafted in the 2011 Draft in Rounds 4 through 7 Is still in the NFL. BTW Tracy and Dodge were out of the NFL very quickly.
Someone in another thread mentioned how Hopkins was taken after Pugh and is a better player than him, therefore we should have taken him.
Well didnt w eat the time have Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. With no OL? Sometimes you draft for value and other time you draft for need. Pugh was a pick at the time that had need AND value. Therefore was a better pick, regardless of how their careers turn out.
players drafted after Brewer who are still in the NFL. But, we're talking about 13 players drafted after him. Reese didn't think any of the 13 were better than Brewer?
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Brad Bars
Cole Farrand
CJ Conway
Justin Halley
Mike Harris
Emmet Cleary
Michael Bamiro
Derrick Johnson
Will Tye
Juron Criner
Kenneth Harper
Nikita Whitlock
Dominique Hamilton
Julian Talley
Jimmy Staten
But more realistically, I'm guessing it will be about 10-11 of those 15, and then a handful of waived/injured guys (Miles), or guys to IR (Berhe).
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
problem isn't that Reese made a bad pick with Brewer. He was a fourth round pick. Most of those players don't work out. The problem is that Reese has a poor day three draft record, aside from 2007, although it has been improving lately.
2008: Bryan Kehl (who we trade up for IIRC), Jonathan Goff, Andre Woodson, and Robert Henderson.
2009: The whole draft was a waste, aside from Nicks and Beatty. The day three picks were Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar, DeAndre Wright, and Stoney Woodson. This was also the year that Clint Sintim, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum were selected. Remember also that Reese wanted to draft Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2010: Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, and Matt Dodge.
2011: James Brewer, Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams, and Da'Rel Scott. This was also the year that Marvin Austin and Jerrel Jernigan were selected. Austin was selected one spot ahead of Stephen Paea. Prince was the only decent player from that draft.
2012: Adrian Robinson, Brandon Mosley, Matt McCants, and Markus Kuhn. This was also the year that David Wilson and Jayron Hosley were selected. Wilson was selected even though Cordy Glenn was apparently the highest rated player on the Giants' board. Randle was the only decent player from that draft, and he was benched twice last year. He and Eli have also had some communication problems.
2013: Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, and Michael Cox. Much better. Nassib was a good pick. Taylor just needs to stay healthy. Herman had a good career at Ohio U. Cox was a reasonable flier.
2014: Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson. Much better again.
2015: Too soon to tell.
Bradshaw fell because of character concerns. Many teams had a third or fourth gourd grade on him based on his talent.
The drafts between 2008 - 2012 produced very few serviceable players, especially from day three. Brewer is one example, but there are many others as well. Reese has compounded this problem by refusing to or at least being reluctant to cut these picks, including Brewer and Robinson.
but that is a very valid criticism. I know Day 3 picks tend to have a lower percentage of success but we get so little contribution from them. We have drafted multiple players for positions when clearly only one can make the final roster.
well, Acid Test already made the point, so I won't harp on it...however, since Charlotte gave me such s..t for my left foot tackle, I'll harp:
Bradshaw is a red herring when it comes to Reese's acumen on draft day, for the reason AT adduced. It would be similar to drafting Collins in the 7th. I wonder how that will shake out.
btw, I miss the toughness, never mind the talent, that Bradshaw brought, really miss him
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
So I guess you've never watched Jerry run-block
I assume the cuts have to be sent to the league office by 4
OL Will Beatty Reserve/PUP
DB Josh Gordy Reserve/Injured
DB Bennett Jackson Reserve/Injured
OL Brandon Mosley Waived/injured
RB Akeem Hunt Waived/injured
OL Michael Bamiro Waived
WR Juron Criner Waived
FB Justin Halley Waived
OL Eric Herman Waived
OL Derrick Johnson Waived
P Robert Malone Waived
DE Jordan Stanton Waived
DT Jummy Staten Waived
TE Will Tye Waived
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
You may want to check your math - of the 14 you named, 50% have indeed appeared in regular season games (most appeared in several). One - Bryan Kehl - appeared in over SEVENTY games...
Not saying any of those 14 had a real impact (well, one did for all the wrong reasons), but it's just so lazy to use such ridiculous hyperbole...
problem isn't that Reese made a bad pick with Brewer. He was a fourth round pick. Most of those players don't work out. The problem is that Reese has a poor day three draft record, aside from 2007, although it has been improving lately.
2008: Bryan Kehl (who we trade up for IIRC), Jonathan Goff, Andre Woodson, and Robert Henderson.
2009: The whole draft was a waste, aside from Nicks and Beatty. The day three picks were Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar, DeAndre Wright, and Stoney Woodson. This was also the year that Clint Sintim, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum were selected. Remember also that Reese wanted to draft Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2010: Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, and Matt Dodge.
2011: James Brewer, Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams, and Da'Rel Scott. This was also the year that Marvin Austin and Jerrel Jernigan were selected. Austin was selected one spot ahead of Stephen Paea. Prince was the only decent player from that draft.
2012: Adrian Robinson, Brandon Mosley, Matt McCants, and Markus Kuhn. This was also the year that David Wilson and Jayron Hosley were selected. Wilson was selected even though Cordy Glenn was apparently the highest rated player on the Giants' board. Randle was the only decent player from that draft, and he was benched twice last year. He and Eli have also had some communication problems.
2013: Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, and Michael Cox. Much better. Nassib was a good pick. Taylor just needs to stay healthy. Herman had a good career at Ohio U. Cox was a reasonable flier.
2014: Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson. Much better again.
2015: Too soon to tell.
Bradshaw fell because of character concerns. Many teams had a third or fourth gourd grade on him based on his talent.
The drafts between 2008 - 2012 produced very few serviceable players, especially from day three. Brewer is one example, but there are many others as well. Reese has compounded this problem by refusing to or at least being reluctant to cut these picks, including Brewer and Robinson.
Kehl, Goff and even Henderson from the 2008 hung around the league for a couple of years. Goff was our starting middle linebacker and wasn't a bad player at all. Every single player from that 2008 class with the exception of Woodson and Henderson (who ended up on IR with an ankle injury in his first season), suffered a knee injury, TT and Goff both had multiple ACL injuries which were career ending.
Every single player from that 2008 class with the exception of Woodson and Henderson (who ended up on IR with an ankle injury in his first season), suffered a knee injury, TT and Goff both had multiple ACL injuries which were career ending.
Fucking Reese should have known that they would.
The criticism of the Brewer pick in isolation is ridiculous
Though there is a 20 year pattern with this team in taking guys in the 3-5 round range who "project" to eventually play left tackle. In two decades, there has been:
I always think of Toby Myles as the archetype. We always had the Toby Myles slot reserved on the team for the mid-round developmental LT. I've yet to see it work out for us.
they go for the guy who they describe in their post-draft remarks as being athletic (or physically gifted) with untapped potential. Like they believe that by the time they get out of the 2nd or third round there are no known quality OL so the best strategy is lottery tickets who have great ceilings. Might just be my imagination though.
Crazy thing is how good we've drafted in the first round
Nicks was a true #1 WR. He was felled by injuries. JPP has been very good. Not a consistent superstar, but 42 sacks and good run D aint nothin. Prince has been a good corner when healthy. Wilson before injury was looking like exactly what you hoped he could be; I didnt like the idea of a change of pace back/returner at #32, but he was reaching his potential I believe. Pugh -- solid OL, should do better inside. The last two picks, ODB and Flowers, look like potential long term building blocks.
everybody is well scouted and the field of available picks of a certain quality is narrower. Plus, you're less of a risk-taker. And often, you're filling a gap so the guy is almost a starter by default.
RE: But in the first round there's usually less range
everybody is well scouted and the field of available picks of a certain quality is narrower. Plus, you're less of a risk-taker. And often, you're filling a gap so the guy is almost a starter by default.
According to this study [url} http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_1.php {/url} Waterfootball puts the percentage of 1st round busts at 33%. He has some stringent guiedelines but maybe 1st round picks aren't as sure as we think or rather hope.
RE: But in the first round there's usually less range
everybody is well scouted and the field of available picks of a certain quality is narrower. Plus, you're less of a risk-taker. And often, you're filling a gap so the guy is almost a starter by default.
According to this study Walterfootball.com puts the percentage of 1st round busts at 33%. He has some stringent guide lines but maybe 1st round picks aren't as sure as we think or rather hope. Link - ( New Window )
I expect several "waived/injured" so probably both!
They have to get rosters down by 4pm today.
why does the NFL do it this way?
Particularly for veterans.
It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
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It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
Geno Smith is still on the roster. This goes against your point.
Then teams evaluate whatever is left and make the next round of cuts...
Sometimes a player who makes it to the next round was not necassarily above a player who got cut in the first round...
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In comment 12446257 dk in TX said:
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It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
Geno Smith is still on the roster. This goes against your point.
My point was about Brewer, nobody else.
I get what you are saying, but Stevie Brown kind of contradicts it.
Eric i am not talking a player that is undrafted rookie or a player that only has 1 or 2 years in the league...
I am talking the players that are veterans that have years on their resume and the team they were on knew they were not going to make the team...
Yes you see a lot of no names cut but you see more veterans cut during this cut period then the 2nd cut period...
Most teams will cut a veteran early rather than wait until the final cut..
Also agree. I was actually going to start a thread on why there are two sets of cuts, instead of just cutting all at once after the last preseason game.
They are saying veterans, not UDFA rookies. Plenty of tape of the vets getting cut to evaluate.
Seahawks signed Jackson, we signed Brown.
Thanks Shyster. I didn't know that.
It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
LOL...and, remember, he's got left tackle feet, and he's done nothing but improve during those four years....If it weren't such a spot on indictment of this regime, it would almost be amusing...almost
What a shocking indictment!
What future All-Pro was Brewer taking snaps away from here?
So now holding onto a depth player who gets cut elsewhere shows the staff is incompetent?
You really can't make some of this shit up.
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It took the Jets 2 months to realize Brewer was a complete waste. For some reason, it took the Giants 4 years.
LOL...and, remember, he's got left tackle feet, and he's done nothing but improve during those four years....If it weren't such a spot on indictment of this regime, it would almost be amusing...almost
You've got to keep in mind that maybe they knew how bad Brewer sucked but he was still better than the alternatives they had on the roster, which is just as big an indictment. Other than maybe McCants, what kind of talent has been around?
Now granted, he never developed and that's a problem. Physically, he had everything you'd want out of a tackle and that's why he was drafted. But giving a player like that 4 years to get it together is not unheard of.
Signing as a free agent with the Jets or any team, I would expect a much shorter leash.
You can look at it your way, Charlotte, and feign outrage at the ignorant fan base who dare chastise the FO for the way it has handled the draft and FA, but I look at it in terms of the four years' opportunity cost:
Somehow, 30 other teams were able to assemble offensive lines during the past four years, five players across--let's say four, because Brewer could not play C--so 120 players have been established as NFL caliber. But some O lines are worse than the Giants', but most have been better, can we agree on that? So, whether it's hidebound stubborness in keeping one of Jerry's picks around, or an inability to assess talent and cut the player if he doesn't have it, the Giants hung on to this guy for going on four years.
That's a long, long time for 120 OL other players who made it on to other teams' rosters in each year to have been rejected because we opted to keep Brewer. The coaching staff only played the guy when they had absolutely NO OTHER OPTION!!
You're right: you can't make this stuff up. How is it that none of these other low round draftees or FAs that populate other teams capable OLs never made it here? Finally, JR called his own bluff and began to draft them high to address the glaring deficiencies.
It's way more than another team cut one of our cuts.
I think the coaching staff is not playing them because they believe they can't cut it, although the Kuhn thing is worrying in reverse. It has not been that TC does not trust playing 1st or 2nd year players; by now, that much is clear.
OBj
Cruz
Randle
Flowers
Randle
Hankins
Prince
DRC
Collins
and a huge surprise.....
JPP!
Except for idiot posters, what would you suppose the development time-frame for a college spread offense QB moving into an NFL standard offense should be? Add that it was one without healthy receiving talent until this year.
Brewer never showed anything with the Jets to change the slotting at RT. Giacomini was the returning starter - slotted with 1st unit. Qvale was on the PS for the Jets concentrating on RT last year - slotted with 2nd unit. Brewer was the new guy - slotted as the spare and remained with the 3rd unit.
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I liked LaCosse too but, because of his injury settlement, I don't think the Giants can re-sign him until at least Week 6 of the regular season.
Does that change if he is signed and released by another team?
Not as far as I know. That would raise problems of teams doing favors for one another.
I agree, Actually, Fauria might actually become our best TE
Except for idiot posters, what would you suppose the development time-frame for a college spread offense QB moving into an NFL standard offense should be? Add that it was one without healthy receiving talent until this year.
Brewer never showed anything with the Jets to change the slotting at RT. Giacomini was the returning starter - slotted with 1st unit. Qvale was on the PS for the Jets concentrating on RT last year - slotted with 2nd unit. Brewer was the new guy - slotted as the spare and remained with the 3rd unit.
I'm sorry you feel like it's irrational hatred. He's walking turnover, and also a knucklehead. 34 interceptions in 30 games, and that's not even counting all the fumbles.
Definitely, he's probably better than any TE we have inside the 20
Apparently he has 24 career receptions.
Donnell's a better player, even if he has his own faults.
Apparently he has 24 career receptions.
Donnell's a better player, even if he has his own faults.
Donnell also had a game like that against Washington... I'm not saying Fauria is better, but it's close
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
We gave a young, raw player time to develop and he didn't, and then we moved on. Referencing the players taken after him is fairly useless. You can do the same for selected failed draft picks on any team.
By the way, who out of that lot behind him is going to make a massive impact in 2015? Pretty much all we are debating is the loss of a scrub. The assumption is if Brewer wasn't the pick, we'd have selected a consistent starter and contributor.
That is terrible logic.
I know Fauria was playing as a second TE, but you'd think he would be given the opportunity to play more instead of the Lions going out and trading for a TE. THat would seem to indicate a lack of faith by the team.
I know Fauria was playing as a second TE, but you'd think he would be given the opportunity to play more instead of the Lions going out and trading for a TE. THat would seem to indicate a lack of faith by the team.
And Donnell was behind Fells on the depth chart also. And Fauria was the third TE behind Pettigrew and Ebron.
I don't know where he stands on that either, though the local papers seem to think that Fauria is a strictly pass-catching player. The move is an interesting one because Wright is a pass-catching tight end, with 80 receptions for 830 yards and 11 touchdowns the past two years. And Detroit already has two pass-catching tight ends in Eric Ebron and Joseph Fauria, plus blocking tight end Brandon Pettigrew.
Ebron and Pettigrew, both former first-round picks, aren't going anywhere.
That means Wright's addition casts some uncertainty of Fauria's future with Detroit.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Reese gets a lot of criticism from me but you're reall reaching when you are talking about 13 players(and only 3 starters) that were drafted after the fourth round bust. 4th rounders and players after that round don't usually pan out.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Well to be fair -- pick every other GMs Round 4 pick over the past five years years and for each one that has washed out, see how many picks after him are still playing.
Have fun. See you next year.
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
Giants have not made cuts yet, players will practice today and then get word yeah or nay this afternoon.
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Giants have not made cuts yet, players will practice today and then get word yeah or nay this afternoon.
Sheesh... That's gonna be one stiff practice if guys are fighting for their jobs. Don't like that at all from TC or Reese.
Maybe the Giants are waiting to see who gets hurt during practice.
Picking George Rogers 1st in the 1981 draft, ahead of Lawrence Taylor, was a mistake. It was clear Taylor was going to be a star.
Picking anyone ahead of Michael Jordan in the NBA draft was a mistake. Clearly Jordan was going to be a once in a lifetime player.
But picking anyone in the 4th round is a risk. Maybe a few turn out to be starters or even stars but most don't. The fault is on Brewer not Reese. Any GM can't see inside a college player to determine if they have the desire and commitment to do what it takes to make it.
Also, I have an OT question about the line play since I've been busy and I live in the Bay Area so didn't get a chance to watch the game.
I noticed Jerry had the best PFF score of any of our lineman and took snaps at both guard and tackle. Did anybody notice how many snaps and how well he played on the outside?
He apparently had one of his best season in MIA when he was moved outside and I personally think that move might serve him and us better. Is there any chance he is our answer at RT until Beatty comes back as I'm not too much looking forward to a half season plus of Newhouse as our starter.
you can do that exercise for every GM out there. How many GM's missed Bradshaw and selected RB's ahead of him? How many GM's missed on Victor Cruz?
I mean, now Reese is getting blamed for not picking Greg hardy, Arthur Moats or Antonio Brown? Really with that shit?
Logic definitely takes a back seat to people looking to craft an agenda.
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Steve in criticizing Reese you are implying there are better ones out there (surely you are not arguing we should have no GM). So by definition it is a relative issue.
When I read essay exams I learned quickly that I needed to go through the batch without grading. We can all have some mythical ideal standard -- but probably not fair to make decisions without the relative context.
We need to sign Landry...who has enough experience to help balance our current rosters lack of experience. Between Meriweather, who hasn't played in a full season since 2010 and Cooper Taylor who has ended the last two years on IR without ever making it onto a game field, we are very thin with a very high likelihood that our already tough situation gets a lot worse quick. Why I a player that has averaged over 100 tackles over the last 5 years and hasn't missed a game since 2008? He could be the STABLE veteran presence that we are badly missing right now.
My point is that Reese is supposed to be a Draft guru but in Rounds 4 through 7 each of the players he drafted in 2011 is no longer in the NFL. One of these days when I have time, I'll check whether any other GM has the same record, that is, no player drafted in the 2011 Draft in Rounds 4 through 7 Is still in the NFL. BTW Tracy and Dodge were out of the NFL very quickly.
So Reese's back half of the 2011 draft are out of football. I don't think that's uncommon.
Cherry-picking who he could have had is the epitome of 20/20 thinking though. And it really can't even be used as a basis for discussion.
Someone in another thread mentioned how Hopkins was taken after Pugh and is a better player than him, therefore we should have taken him.
Well didnt w eat the time have Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. With no OL? Sometimes you draft for value and other time you draft for need. Pugh was a pick at the time that had need AND value. Therefore was a better pick, regardless of how their careers turn out.
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
Maybe you should loan him your crystal ball.
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Good Idea
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Jerry Reach.
Cole Farrand
CJ Conway
Justin Halley
Mike Harris
Emmet Cleary
Michael Bamiro
Derrick Johnson
Will Tye
Juron Criner
Kenneth Harper
Nikita Whitlock
Dominique Hamilton
Julian Talley
Jimmy Staten
But more realistically, I'm guessing it will be about 10-11 of those 15, and then a handful of waived/injured guys (Miles), or guys to IR (Berhe).
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
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Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
*correction....not if he stinks or not.
2008: Bryan Kehl (who we trade up for IIRC), Jonathan Goff, Andre Woodson, and Robert Henderson.
2009: The whole draft was a waste, aside from Nicks and Beatty. The day three picks were Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar, DeAndre Wright, and Stoney Woodson. This was also the year that Clint Sintim, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum were selected. Remember also that Reese wanted to draft Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2010: Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, and Matt Dodge.
2011: James Brewer, Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams, and Da'Rel Scott. This was also the year that Marvin Austin and Jerrel Jernigan were selected. Austin was selected one spot ahead of Stephen Paea. Prince was the only decent player from that draft.
2012: Adrian Robinson, Brandon Mosley, Matt McCants, and Markus Kuhn. This was also the year that David Wilson and Jayron Hosley were selected. Wilson was selected even though Cordy Glenn was apparently the highest rated player on the Giants' board. Randle was the only decent player from that draft, and he was benched twice last year. He and Eli have also had some communication problems.
2013: Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, and Michael Cox. Much better. Nassib was a good pick. Taylor just needs to stay healthy. Herman had a good career at Ohio U. Cox was a reasonable flier.
2014: Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson. Much better again.
2015: Too soon to tell.
Bradshaw fell because of character concerns. Many teams had a third or fourth gourd grade on him based on his talent.
The drafts between 2008 - 2012 produced very few serviceable players, especially from day three. Brewer is one example, but there are many others as well. Reese has compounded this problem by refusing to or at least being reluctant to cut these picks, including Brewer and Robinson.
Bradshaw is a red herring when it comes to Reese's acumen on draft day, for the reason AT adduced. It would be similar to drafting Collins in the 7th. I wonder how that will shake out.
btw, I miss the toughness, never mind the talent, that Bradshaw brought, really miss him
Apparently waiting until after today's practice.
Maybe start a new thread once that starts.
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Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
So I guess you've never watched Jerry run-block
Link - ( New Window )
DB Josh Gordy Reserve/Injured
DB Bennett Jackson Reserve/Injured
OL Brandon Mosley Waived/injured
RB Akeem Hunt Waived/injured
OL Michael Bamiro Waived
WR Juron Criner Waived
FB Justin Halley Waived
OL Eric Herman Waived
OL Derrick Johnson Waived
P Robert Malone Waived
DE Jordan Stanton Waived
DT Jummy Staten Waived
TE Will Tye Waived
The other cuts:
Michael Bamiro
Juron Criner
Justin Halley
Eric Herman
Derrick Johnson
Jordan Stanton
Jimmy Staten
Will Tye
Beatty goes to PUP
Josh Gordy and Bennett Jackson go to IR
Brandon Mosley and Akeem Hunt were waived/injured
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
You may want to check your math - of the 14 you named, 50% have indeed appeared in regular season games (most appeared in several). One - Bryan Kehl - appeared in over SEVENTY games...
Not saying any of those 14 had a real impact (well, one did for all the wrong reasons), but it's just so lazy to use such ridiculous hyperbole...
2008: Bryan Kehl (who we trade up for IIRC), Jonathan Goff, Andre Woodson, and Robert Henderson.
2009: The whole draft was a waste, aside from Nicks and Beatty. The day three picks were Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar, DeAndre Wright, and Stoney Woodson. This was also the year that Clint Sintim, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum were selected. Remember also that Reese wanted to draft Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2010: Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, and Matt Dodge.
2011: James Brewer, Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams, and Da'Rel Scott. This was also the year that Marvin Austin and Jerrel Jernigan were selected. Austin was selected one spot ahead of Stephen Paea. Prince was the only decent player from that draft.
2012: Adrian Robinson, Brandon Mosley, Matt McCants, and Markus Kuhn. This was also the year that David Wilson and Jayron Hosley were selected. Wilson was selected even though Cordy Glenn was apparently the highest rated player on the Giants' board. Randle was the only decent player from that draft, and he was benched twice last year. He and Eli have also had some communication problems.
2013: Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, and Michael Cox. Much better. Nassib was a good pick. Taylor just needs to stay healthy. Herman had a good career at Ohio U. Cox was a reasonable flier.
2014: Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson. Much better again.
2015: Too soon to tell.
Bradshaw fell because of character concerns. Many teams had a third or fourth gourd grade on him based on his talent.
The drafts between 2008 - 2012 produced very few serviceable players, especially from day three. Brewer is one example, but there are many others as well. Reese has compounded this problem by refusing to or at least being reluctant to cut these picks, including Brewer and Robinson.
Kehl, Goff and even Henderson from the 2008 hung around the league for a couple of years. Goff was our starting middle linebacker and wasn't a bad player at all. Every single player from that 2008 class with the exception of Woodson and Henderson (who ended up on IR with an ankle injury in his first season), suffered a knee injury, TT and Goff both had multiple ACL injuries which were career ending.
Oben - 96/3
Myles - 98/5
Hatch - 02/3
Koets - 07/6
Brewer - 11/4
I always think of Toby Myles as the archetype. We always had the Toby Myles slot reserved on the team for the mid-round developmental LT. I've yet to see it work out for us.
According to this study [url} http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_1.php {/url} Waterfootball puts the percentage of 1st round busts at 33%. He has some stringent guiedelines but maybe 1st round picks aren't as sure as we think or rather hope.
According to this study Walterfootball.com puts the percentage of 1st round busts at 33%. He has some stringent guide lines but maybe 1st round picks aren't as sure as we think or rather hope.
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