I know Fauria was playing as a second TE, but you'd think he would be given the opportunity to play more instead of the Lions going out and trading for a TE. THat would seem to indicate a lack of faith by the team.
And Donnell was behind Fells on the depth chart also. And Fauria was the third TE behind Pettigrew and Ebron.
Some of you are just outright ignorant. The Brewer pick was a mistake. Nobody is defending the pick. But, list the GMs in the league who have not made a mistake with a 4th round pick. It's not hard to draft someone with a 4th round pick who turns out to be a bust. And, every GM has screwed up on higher picks as well. Nobody is defending the Austin pick either. But, overall Reese has drafted ok and has the jewelry on his hand to prove it and how many GMs can do that?
with Donnel, a better pass catcher (when he holds on to the football) than he is a blocker, and, on balance, he's in the game when it's more likely the Giants are going with a passing play, doesn't that tend to give defensive coordinators keys they would not otherwise have if a two-way (i.e., catching + blocking) TE, e.g., Cunningham were in? I don't know how Fauria stacks up that way.
I don't know where he stands on that either, though the local papers seem to think that Fauria is a strictly pass-catching player. The move is an interesting one because Wright is a pass-catching tight end, with 80 receptions for 830 yards and 11 touchdowns the past two years. And Detroit already has two pass-catching tight ends in Eric Ebron and Joseph Fauria, plus blocking tight end Brandon Pettigrew.
Ebron and Pettigrew, both former first-round picks, aren't going anywhere.
That means Wright's addition casts some uncertainty of Fauria's future with Detroit.
Ebron has been a huge disappointment so far in Detroit
develop or whether he showed how awful an OT he is by the Jets cutting him so quickly or whether we kept him on the roster too long or any other similar issue.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Reese gets a lot of criticism from me but you're reall reaching when you are talking about 13 players(and only 3 starters) that were drafted after the fourth round bust. 4th rounders and players after that round don't usually pan out.
RE: FatMan: IMO the issues are not whether we gave Brewer 4 years to
develop or whether he showed how awful an OT he is by the Jets cutting him so quickly or whether we kept him on the roster too long or any other similar issue.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Well to be fair -- pick every other GMs Round 4 pick over the past five years years and for each one that has washed out, see how many picks after him are still playing.
Have fun. See you next year.
FatMan: I would agree with your logic if there only 2 or 3
players drafted after Brewer who are still in the NFL. But, we're talking about 13 players drafted after him. Reese didn't think any of the 13 were better than Brewer?
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
I'm not judging other GMs because I'm holding Reese accountable for the current poor state of the team, the failure to make the playoffs and the talenthe has given TC to work
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Saying it was a mistake to take anyone in the fourth round is absurd. Its not a mistake to take someone then just because they didn't work out.
Picking George Rogers 1st in the 1981 draft, ahead of Lawrence Taylor, was a mistake. It was clear Taylor was going to be a star.
Picking anyone ahead of Michael Jordan in the NBA draft was a mistake. Clearly Jordan was going to be a once in a lifetime player.
But picking anyone in the 4th round is a risk. Maybe a few turn out to be starters or even stars but most don't. The fault is on Brewer not Reese. Any GM can't see inside a college player to determine if they have the desire and commitment to do what it takes to make it.
I'm a new member as I just found out about this site yesterday from a fellow poster at BBV who was venting his frustration about how much he didn't agree with your assessment of how downright shitty Eli has been and continues to play. That forced me to come check out the website as I too have had many gripes about our $25 million dollar QB.
Also, I have an OT question about the line play since I've been busy and I live in the Bay Area so didn't get a chance to watch the game.
I noticed Jerry had the best PFF score of any of our lineman and took snaps at both guard and tackle. Did anybody notice how many snaps and how well he played on the outside?
He apparently had one of his best season in MIA when he was moved outside and I personally think that move might serve him and us better. Is there any chance he is our answer at RT until Beatty comes back as I'm not too much looking forward to a half season plus of Newhouse as our starter.
I'm not judging other GMs because I'm holding Reese accountable for the current poor state of the team, the failure to make the playoffs and the talenthe has given TC to work
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Steve in criticizing Reese you are implying there are better ones out there (surely you are not arguing we should have no GM). So by definition it is a relative issue.
When I read essay exams I learned quickly that I needed to go through the batch without grading. We can all have some mythical ideal standard -- but probably not fair to make decisions without the relative context.
RE: Its likely there will be a handful of players better than Stevie
available before week 1 but we will stick with Stevie.
We need to sign Landry...who has enough experience to help balance our current rosters lack of experience. Between Meriweather, who hasn't played in a full season since 2010 and Cooper Taylor who has ended the last two years on IR without ever making it onto a game field, we are very thin with a very high likelihood that our already tough situation gets a lot worse quick. Why I a player that has averaged over 100 tackles over the last 5 years and hasn't missed a game since 2008? He could be the STABLE veteran presence that we are badly missing right now.
Brown because there are 23 other players in Rounds 5 through 7 who are still in the NFL while we' were drafting Tracy and Dodge. Typing all of those other 23 players would take too much time. Of those 23 other than Hardy, Motas and Brown, there are4 starters..
My point is that Reese is supposed to be a Draft guru but in Rounds 4 through 7 each of the players he drafted in 2011 is no longer in the NFL. One of these days when I have time, I'll check whether any other GM has the same record, that is, no player drafted in the 2011 Draft in Rounds 4 through 7 Is still in the NFL. BTW Tracy and Dodge were out of the NFL very quickly.
Someone in another thread mentioned how Hopkins was taken after Pugh and is a better player than him, therefore we should have taken him.
Well didnt w eat the time have Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. With no OL? Sometimes you draft for value and other time you draft for need. Pugh was a pick at the time that had need AND value. Therefore was a better pick, regardless of how their careers turn out.
players drafted after Brewer who are still in the NFL. But, we're talking about 13 players drafted after him. Reese didn't think any of the 13 were better than Brewer?
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Brad Bars
Cole Farrand
CJ Conway
Justin Halley
Mike Harris
Emmet Cleary
Michael Bamiro
Derrick Johnson
Will Tye
Juron Criner
Kenneth Harper
Nikita Whitlock
Dominique Hamilton
Julian Talley
Jimmy Staten
But more realistically, I'm guessing it will be about 10-11 of those 15, and then a handful of waived/injured guys (Miles), or guys to IR (Berhe).
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
problem isn't that Reese made a bad pick with Brewer. He was a fourth round pick. Most of those players don't work out. The problem is that Reese has a poor day three draft record, aside from 2007, although it has been improving lately.
2008: Bryan Kehl (who we trade up for IIRC), Jonathan Goff, Andre Woodson, and Robert Henderson.
2009: The whole draft was a waste, aside from Nicks and Beatty. The day three picks were Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar, DeAndre Wright, and Stoney Woodson. This was also the year that Clint Sintim, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum were selected. Remember also that Reese wanted to draft Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2010: Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, and Matt Dodge.
2011: James Brewer, Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams, and Da'Rel Scott. This was also the year that Marvin Austin and Jerrel Jernigan were selected. Austin was selected one spot ahead of Stephen Paea. Prince was the only decent player from that draft.
2012: Adrian Robinson, Brandon Mosley, Matt McCants, and Markus Kuhn. This was also the year that David Wilson and Jayron Hosley were selected. Wilson was selected even though Cordy Glenn was apparently the highest rated player on the Giants' board. Randle was the only decent player from that draft, and he was benched twice last year. He and Eli have also had some communication problems.
2013: Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, and Michael Cox. Much better. Nassib was a good pick. Taylor just needs to stay healthy. Herman had a good career at Ohio U. Cox was a reasonable flier.
2014: Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson. Much better again.
2015: Too soon to tell.
Bradshaw fell because of character concerns. Many teams had a third or fourth gourd grade on him based on his talent.
The drafts between 2008 - 2012 produced very few serviceable players, especially from day three. Brewer is one example, but there are many others as well. Reese has compounded this problem by refusing to or at least being reluctant to cut these picks, including Brewer and Robinson.
but that is a very valid criticism. I know Day 3 picks tend to have a lower percentage of success but we get so little contribution from them. We have drafted multiple players for positions when clearly only one can make the final roster.
well, Acid Test already made the point, so I won't harp on it...however, since Charlotte gave me such s..t for my left foot tackle, I'll harp:
Bradshaw is a red herring when it comes to Reese's acumen on draft day, for the reason AT adduced. It would be similar to drafting Collins in the 7th. I wonder how that will shake out.
btw, I miss the toughness, never mind the talent, that Bradshaw brought, really miss him
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
So I guess you've never watched Jerry run-block
I assume the cuts have to be sent to the league office by 4
OL Will Beatty Reserve/PUP
DB Josh Gordy Reserve/Injured
DB Bennett Jackson Reserve/Injured
OL Brandon Mosley Waived/injured
RB Akeem Hunt Waived/injured
OL Michael Bamiro Waived
WR Juron Criner Waived
FB Justin Halley Waived
OL Eric Herman Waived
OL Derrick Johnson Waived
P Robert Malone Waived
DE Jordan Stanton Waived
DT Jummy Staten Waived
TE Will Tye Waived
I know Fauria was playing as a second TE, but you'd think he would be given the opportunity to play more instead of the Lions going out and trading for a TE. THat would seem to indicate a lack of faith by the team.
And Donnell was behind Fells on the depth chart also. And Fauria was the third TE behind Pettigrew and Ebron.
I don't know where he stands on that either, though the local papers seem to think that Fauria is a strictly pass-catching player. The move is an interesting one because Wright is a pass-catching tight end, with 80 receptions for 830 yards and 11 touchdowns the past two years. And Detroit already has two pass-catching tight ends in Eric Ebron and Joseph Fauria, plus blocking tight end Brandon Pettigrew.
Ebron and Pettigrew, both former first-round picks, aren't going anywhere.
That means Wright's addition casts some uncertainty of Fauria's future with Detroit.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Reese gets a lot of criticism from me but you're reall reaching when you are talking about 13 players(and only 3 starters) that were drafted after the fourth round bust. 4th rounders and players after that round don't usually pan out.
IMO the basic issue is why was he drafted in the first place with so many other good players drafted after him.
Brewer was drafted in the 4th Round of the 2011 Draft. The players drafted after Brewer in the 4th Round and STILL in the NFL as I write this are:
Malik Brown CB
Chris Prosinski CB
Chris Hairston OT
Bilal Powell RB
Roc Carmichael CB
Cortez Allen S and Starter
Julius Thomas TE and Starter
Davon House CB
Anthony Sherman FB
Buster Skrine CB and Starter
Marcus Cannon Patriots Swing OT
D. J. Williams TE
So, Brewer was drafted and released, but there are 13 players drafted after him who are still in the NFL, including 3 Starters and a Swing OT for the Patriots. Said another way, those 13 players constitute 1/3 of the entire 4th Round.
There is no way to sugar-coat it- a MASSIVE mistake by Reese because he had 13 opportunities to draft a NFL-quality player instead of drafting Brewer.
The mistakes by Reese keep adding up!!!
Well to be fair -- pick every other GMs Round 4 pick over the past five years years and for each one that has washed out, see how many picks after him are still playing.
Have fun. See you next year.
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
Giants have not made cuts yet, players will practice today and then get word yeah or nay this afternoon.
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Giants have not made cuts yet, players will practice today and then get word yeah or nay this afternoon.
Sheesh... That's gonna be one stiff practice if guys are fighting for their jobs. Don't like that at all from TC or Reese.
Maybe the Giants are waiting to see who gets hurt during practice.
Picking George Rogers 1st in the 1981 draft, ahead of Lawrence Taylor, was a mistake. It was clear Taylor was going to be a star.
Picking anyone ahead of Michael Jordan in the NBA draft was a mistake. Clearly Jordan was going to be a once in a lifetime player.
But picking anyone in the 4th round is a risk. Maybe a few turn out to be starters or even stars but most don't. The fault is on Brewer not Reese. Any GM can't see inside a college player to determine if they have the desire and commitment to do what it takes to make it.
Also, I have an OT question about the line play since I've been busy and I live in the Bay Area so didn't get a chance to watch the game.
I noticed Jerry had the best PFF score of any of our lineman and took snaps at both guard and tackle. Did anybody notice how many snaps and how well he played on the outside?
He apparently had one of his best season in MIA when he was moved outside and I personally think that move might serve him and us better. Is there any chance he is our answer at RT until Beatty comes back as I'm not too much looking forward to a half season plus of Newhouse as our starter.
you can do that exercise for every GM out there. How many GM's missed Bradshaw and selected RB's ahead of him? How many GM's missed on Victor Cruz?
I mean, now Reese is getting blamed for not picking Greg hardy, Arthur Moats or Antonio Brown? Really with that shit?
Logic definitely takes a back seat to people looking to craft an agenda.
My point is that from 2008 through 2011, in each of those Drafts he has drafted poorly from the 4th Round on and missed on many players who were available when he picked and are better than his choices.
Steve in criticizing Reese you are implying there are better ones out there (surely you are not arguing we should have no GM). So by definition it is a relative issue.
When I read essay exams I learned quickly that I needed to go through the batch without grading. We can all have some mythical ideal standard -- but probably not fair to make decisions without the relative context.
We need to sign Landry...who has enough experience to help balance our current rosters lack of experience. Between Meriweather, who hasn't played in a full season since 2010 and Cooper Taylor who has ended the last two years on IR without ever making it onto a game field, we are very thin with a very high likelihood that our already tough situation gets a lot worse quick. Why I a player that has averaged over 100 tackles over the last 5 years and hasn't missed a game since 2008? He could be the STABLE veteran presence that we are badly missing right now.
My point is that Reese is supposed to be a Draft guru but in Rounds 4 through 7 each of the players he drafted in 2011 is no longer in the NFL. One of these days when I have time, I'll check whether any other GM has the same record, that is, no player drafted in the 2011 Draft in Rounds 4 through 7 Is still in the NFL. BTW Tracy and Dodge were out of the NFL very quickly.
So Reese's back half of the 2011 draft are out of football. I don't think that's uncommon.
Cherry-picking who he could have had is the epitome of 20/20 thinking though. And it really can't even be used as a basis for discussion.
Someone in another thread mentioned how Hopkins was taken after Pugh and is a better player than him, therefore we should have taken him.
Well didnt w eat the time have Cruz, Nicks, and Randle. With no OL? Sometimes you draft for value and other time you draft for need. Pugh was a pick at the time that had need AND value. Therefore was a better pick, regardless of how their careers turn out.
I think Julius Thomas would be an upgrade at TE, Cortez Allen and Buster Skrine may have been an upgrade over our DBs and Marcus Cannon may have provided better OT depth than we have.
Sorry but IMO from the 4th Round through the 7 th Rounds Reese made horrible mistakes which plague us today. For example, among others, Reese missed on Greg Hardy and Arthur Moats for the DL, Antonio Brown at WR. Instead in the later Rounds we drafted Adrian Tracy and Matt Dodge.
Maybe you should loan him your crystal ball.
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Good Idea
Don't you think it's fair to go back and see how we did in prior Drafts to see how we replenished aging/retired vets?
We drafted as follows from 2008 through 2011 in Rounds 4 through 7 :
2008
Bryan Kehl 4th
Jonathan Goff 5th
Andre Wodson 6th
Robert Henderson 6th
Marcus Monk 7th
2009
Andre Brown 4th
Rhett Bomar 5th
DeAndre Brown 6th
2010
Phillip Dillard 4th
Mitch Petrus 5th
Stanley Woodson 7th
2011
James Brewer 4th
Adrian Tracy 6th
Matt Dodge 7th
EVERYONE of those draftees is out of the NFL. 99% of them never appeared in a regular season game.
I don't believe there is another GM who has the same dismal record, that is, EVERY draftee in Rounds 4 through 7 from the 2008 through 2011 Drafts is out of the NFL.
IMO that's why the team is in such a sorry state of affairs. Reese's draft failures for that period of time are the main reason.
Jerry Reach.
Cole Farrand
CJ Conway
Justin Halley
Mike Harris
Emmet Cleary
Michael Bamiro
Derrick Johnson
Will Tye
Juron Criner
Kenneth Harper
Nikita Whitlock
Dominique Hamilton
Julian Talley
Jimmy Staten
But more realistically, I'm guessing it will be about 10-11 of those 15, and then a handful of waived/injured guys (Miles), or guys to IR (Berhe).
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
Quote:
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
*correction....not if he stinks or not.
2008: Bryan Kehl (who we trade up for IIRC), Jonathan Goff, Andre Woodson, and Robert Henderson.
2009: The whole draft was a waste, aside from Nicks and Beatty. The day three picks were Andre Brown, Rhett Bomar, DeAndre Wright, and Stoney Woodson. This was also the year that Clint Sintim, Ramses Barden, and Travis Beckum were selected. Remember also that Reese wanted to draft Darrius Heyward-Bey.
2010: Phillip Dillard, Mitch Petrus, Adrian Tracy, and Matt Dodge.
2011: James Brewer, Greg Jones, Tyler Sash, Jacquian Williams, and Da'Rel Scott. This was also the year that Marvin Austin and Jerrel Jernigan were selected. Austin was selected one spot ahead of Stephen Paea. Prince was the only decent player from that draft.
2012: Adrian Robinson, Brandon Mosley, Matt McCants, and Markus Kuhn. This was also the year that David Wilson and Jayron Hosley were selected. Wilson was selected even though Cordy Glenn was apparently the highest rated player on the Giants' board. Randle was the only decent player from that draft, and he was benched twice last year. He and Eli have also had some communication problems.
2013: Ryan Nassib, Cooper Taylor, Eric Herman, and Michael Cox. Much better. Nassib was a good pick. Taylor just needs to stay healthy. Herman had a good career at Ohio U. Cox was a reasonable flier.
2014: Andre Williams, Nat Berhe, Devon Kennard, and Bennett Jackson. Much better again.
2015: Too soon to tell.
Bradshaw fell because of character concerns. Many teams had a third or fourth gourd grade on him based on his talent.
The drafts between 2008 - 2012 produced very few serviceable players, especially from day three. Brewer is one example, but there are many others as well. Reese has compounded this problem by refusing to or at least being reluctant to cut these picks, including Brewer and Robinson.
Bradshaw is a red herring when it comes to Reese's acumen on draft day, for the reason AT adduced. It would be similar to drafting Collins in the 7th. I wonder how that will shake out.
btw, I miss the toughness, never mind the talent, that Bradshaw brought, really miss him
Apparently waiting until after today's practice.
Maybe start a new thread once that starts.
Quote:
Jerry is not the answer. He stinks. It's why they are trying to get Schwartz back in his spot. Jerry at tackle would be a bad idea.
So I guess you decided not to answer my question and just figured you would answer your own question. I'm gonna assume you didn't notice him at tackle and you're just assuming he would suck playing there.
I don't know why so many fans have such a strong hatred for our backup guard that played a full 16 games last year without getting our QB killed. Obviously we want Schwartz in there but we wanted Schwartz in there last year too, if you remember. It doesn't make much sense to hate on our backup because he wasn't a pro bowler. He kept Eli upright and if we can get that out of our backup, then he's doing a decent job.im not saying he's a great or even all that good but he was a decent backup.
We didn't waste a draft pick and we only paid him like 800k for last year so I'd say we got more than our money's worth. If he can play tackle better than he can play guard then I think the 1.3 million or so he is making this year is well worth it.
If Schartz and Richburg stay healthy and Jerry is on the far right side that gives us the whole middle and right side to run through. If he can keep Eli upright until Beatty gets back, then I'd say that's 1.3 mil well spent.
I'm not saying he is the answer or that he is any good at tackle. He had the best game of any Giant offensive lineman (according to PFF) last Saturday against a very good defensive front and I know he took some snaps at tackle so I just wanted to know if anybody noticed him out there.
Again, I'm not saying he's a great player but just asking how he played at tackle, not if he drinks or not. Maybe last year he and Pugh should have been switched and both of them were not playing their best positions. One simple could have made an improvement in two positions but since everybody is stuck on how he played at guard, nobody noticed he might be playing out of position and it wouldn't be the first time Tom and Jerry had something backwards.
So I guess you've never watched Jerry run-block
Link - ( New Window )
DB Josh Gordy Reserve/Injured
DB Bennett Jackson Reserve/Injured
OL Brandon Mosley Waived/injured
RB Akeem Hunt Waived/injured
OL Michael Bamiro Waived
WR Juron Criner Waived
FB Justin Halley Waived
OL Eric Herman Waived
OL Derrick Johnson Waived
P Robert Malone Waived
DE Jordan Stanton Waived
DT Jummy Staten Waived
TE Will Tye Waived