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NFT: Changes of Heart and Mind: What changed yours?

schnitzie : 9/1/2015 1:48 pm
I recently friended a fellow on Facebook who had, until a few years ago, worn clothing fashioned with a Confederate Flag. He came around and changed his mind...threw out the bandana, realizing that it was a racist symbol he wanted no part of.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=536147699883195& set=a.103147593183210.7351.100004639080481& type=1

About 8 years ago, I was one of the people who stood for Civil Unions for gay people, based on my reckoning that it seemed a decent compromise. Gay people would get the benefit of marriage. Religious people could rest easy that their customs and religions would be preserved.

Then I saw a comment by a gay person online that pointed out that civil unions were essentially the same principle as "Separate but Equal" that defined Jim Crow laws and that consigned gay people to second-class citizenship. I found that compelling and changed my position.

In today's balkanized media markets, our differences are easily preserved and exacerbated. I'm just wondering what it takes to make someone change their mind about something. What makes a person shift...start to see things differently?

Another example: My Intellectual History Advisory at college, Alan Kors (google him: he's a moderate conservative, huge on free speech) and I were having coffee at the Student Union and arguing about stuff, which we often did. He was arguing that rape is no different from any other kind of physical assault. All are physically invasive and traumatic, only our own sexual hangups make rape worse.

I pointed out that rape carries with it the risk of forced pregnancy, a completely different kind of intrusion.

Dr. Kors raised his pipe towards me and said in this thick Jersey City accent: "That is utterly compelling. That is an utterly compelling argument."

I think that was my proudest moment in college, but most of the credit goes to Dr. Kors for being fair minded and having intellectual integrity. He was a great advisor, and I respected the hell out of the guy.

Have you ever changed your mind on a political or personal matter? Has your position on an issue ever shifted. Did you ever decide/realize that you were just plain wrong about something and proceed differently thereafter? Have you ever undergone a paradigm shift?

One more example:
When I was in my late 20s and early 30s, I had a major resentment against my father because I felt like he did not understand or try to really know me, and so I felt very unsupported by him. I was angry at him all the time, and it caused me a lot of pain.

One day, and this kind of came out of the blue, I heard the words, "I am dust," in my head. It was like a lightbulb went off, and I realized that what my father thought of me or what anyone thought of me just didn't matter. I was dust...animated dust with consciousness, which made me really fucking lucky to just be sitting here imagining I had a problem with my Dad.

In that moment, I just accepted that he was who he was, that he was doing the best he could, but that I didn't have to or need to depend upon him (or anyone) to feel okay about myself. Because feeling okay about myself was bullshit anyway.

It was very freeing. I went from feeling victimized and short-changed to feeling fortunate and satisfied. I could do whatever the fuck I wanted without needing a parent's approval, and that was cool.

So have you ever had a change of mind or heart or a paradigm shift that changed your opinion or perspective on an issue, a range of issues, or about your life in general?

Please explain.... and if you have to walk away and think about it a while, that is cool, too.
Awesome post and question  
SomeFan : 9/1/2015 2:34 pm : link
My take is that most of us have core values / beliefs that really don't change but we can change our view on a particular position. It is like your Prof Kors, someone helps in understanding what I will call a truth and then you go back to your core value system and change your view.

I have had a few stop in my tracks moments in life where someone completely changed my view based on their action or statement. You have to believe the action or statement is sincere to change too.
This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
GiantFilthy : 9/1/2015 2:36 pm : link
to accept ketchup on a hot dog.
RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
MadPlaid : 9/1/2015 2:42 pm : link
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
to accept ketchup on a hot dog.

NEVER!
In my younger years I lived in Newark, NJ with my grandparents  
SomeFan : 9/1/2015 2:44 pm : link
then, when I was older - through sophomore year in high school - I like to tell people I just summered there at my grandparent's home.

My younger years were around the riots and there was a lot of animosity and complaining going on about race by family and neighborhood folks. Around this time, my sister asked my grandfather if it were ok for a white person to marry a black person. Now my grandfather never said a racist word in his life tha tI heard but from the environment I was in, I was expecting an ISSUE was about to erupt. Instead, my grandfather just said, yes, if you both love each other. That was huge for me and I still think it changed my entire way of thinking, speaking to people and viewing the world.
RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
Chris in Philly : 9/1/2015 2:50 pm : link
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
to accept ketchup on a hot dog.


I'll fucking cut you.
Is mustard on a hamburger  
SomeFan : 9/1/2015 2:54 pm : link
the equivalent or is that acceptable? McDonalds seems to have made that culturally acceptable.
Mustard can make the burger.  
GiantFilthy : 9/1/2015 2:54 pm : link
.
I swing the other way  
SomeFan : 9/1/2015 2:57 pm : link
My wife or kids put mustard on a burger and take it into the back yard and bury it.
Relish gets the shaft  
Giants2012 : 9/1/2015 2:58 pm : link
and pickle gets a pass. Such BS
When I was a young pre-teen, I had a problem with gay people  
MadPlaid : 9/1/2015 3:01 pm : link
I didn't like it when I saw men wear earrings or act effeminate. I thought something was wrong with them, that they were perverted. They had a choice, and they chose to act indecent. I remember exactly when I changed my mind on this issue. It was after my sister took me to see a fantastic documentary called the Life and Times of Harvey Milk.

It changed my life forever. It shined a light on the struggles of the gay community and told the story of an incredible man who became the first gay city councilman in the city of San Francisco only to be assassinated. This documentary made a huge impact on me and my attitude. It helped me to recognize that gay people are ordinary people just like me looking for love, happiness and acceptance.
Grew up in a racist environment...  
x meadowlander : 9/1/2015 3:03 pm : link
...not cross-burning racism, more of the typical Archie Bunker 1970's racism and intolerance.

My attitudes changed through first hand experience. Spend a decade working with diverse cultures, with immigrants - with illegals, and that will change anyone's tune, in factories, in warehouses, in restaurants and in some of the worst neighborhoods in Koch and Dinkins NYC.

One striking event was working for an office refurbishment company in Passaic, driving these 3 guys home to East Orange - came to find they were all gang-bangers, ex-cons. I asked "Why the hell are you working here?" - "Sink or swim" was the answer. "You can't live on welfare, and if you try to survive selling drugs you'll die or spend your life in jail."

I realized the truth about 'welfare queens' right then and there. I saw what they lived in. Barely any furniture. A TV. A boom box. Wife and kids, blazing hot apartments. But they worked. Worked their asses off too.
I used to think the NFL was cool  
Giants2012 : 9/1/2015 3:09 pm : link
Super Bowl opening night takes place of media day. Begins around prime time and features music performances

Can't wait for Kayne West or maybe a speech from Cait.
RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
BigBlue89 : 9/1/2015 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
to accept ketchup on a hot dog.


I'll meet you half way and say BBQ sauce is acceptable.
My entire life  
River Mike : 9/1/2015 3:31 pm : link
I have been a registered Republican, and fairly conservative. I used to have vehement arguments with Democrat friends about many things, but my biggest hot button was "the Republicans are for the rich". I would argue that was simplistic thinking. I told them the GOP is not for the rich, they're for a healthy business environment which will benefit everyone.

I won't get into policy details or specific issues because I don't want to ignite a political discussion. I will only point out that the issues that turned me around were the financial meltdown and the issue of universal single payer health care. These two issue made me do a lot of research and a complete re-evaluation. That was my most significant change of heart and mind. I think that's as far as I can safely go and hope I've not gone too far already.

As an aside, some BBIers may note that although I am basically liberal now, I still do hold conservative views on some issues.
When I was young I thought gun control was a good and important idea  
TJ : 9/1/2015 3:37 pm : link
Some time in my late 20s it dawned on me that view contrasted with my support for other civil liberties. I subjected my opinion to more analysis than I'd given it before. A rational examination supported the opposite view and I couldn't find any reason for my former opinion. I had supported gun control on an emotional basis. No crime there I guess, emotions are a legitimate basis for human actions and opinions. I can't help suspect that groupthink played a part too and that's embarrassing. Shortly after my realization I also decided there is no rational basis for most drug regulation. Not that I'd ever been a strict follower of those laws back in those days.

I'm still mostly a lefty so maybe it was not that big a revelation for me.
==========  
GiantFilthy : 9/1/2015 3:40 pm : link
Quote:
BigBlue89 : 3:17 pm : link : reply
I'll meet you half way and say BBQ sauce is acceptable.


Deal.
For me it is an increased exposure to cultures...  
FatMan in Charlotte : 9/1/2015 3:49 pm : link
and knowledge. I grew up a Die-hard Republican and over the years have seen the party pander to the fringe elements of the Religious right. Throughout the years, I've seen religion used as a way to bilk people out of money instead of enlightening them. I've seen it used as a way of controlling actions and thoughts instead of promoting free will. Strangely, I find myself being quite religious when it comes to Faith, and very much soured on most organized religion (half of the reason I'm a Presbyterian - a milktoast sect). I believe more in a personal relationship with God than one where you are coerced or guilted into believing.

Actually, my dislike of fringe religions and observing stupidity of their messages has probably brought me closer to identifying with alternate lifestyles. I know too many gays today or in the past to believe that it is a choice to be that way. I have been exposed to too many cultures to believe they are doomed because they may not believe in the same deity.

I've gone from a Die-Hard Republican Alex P. Keaton to a rainbow loving Harvey Feirstein.
Fatman  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/1/2015 3:52 pm : link
you ought to check out Masonry
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/1/2015 3:55 pm : link
Working for the government will convince you that it isn't the answer.
The gender wage gap is largely myth.  
kicker : 9/1/2015 4:00 pm : link
Welfare doesn't really affect family structure or cause people to not work.

Immigration has a very small negative impact on Americans and is largely beneficial.
RE: ...  
gidiefor : Mod : 9/1/2015 4:07 pm : link
In comment 12447324 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Working for the government will convince you that it isn't the answer.


Ain't it the truth -- in my experience inside government - government will fuck up anything it possibly can
RE: RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
OC2.0 : 9/1/2015 4:15 pm : link
In comment 12447135 MadPlaid said:
Quote:
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


to accept ketchup on a hot dog.


NEVER!


NEVER squared!
Eric, spend some time working in Business...  
schnitzie : 9/1/2015 5:01 pm : link
I recommend coming on board as an SAP implementation is in progress.

The experience may change your mind on what the answer is or is not. Or expand your mind to a whole other level: that human beings in any kind of institution are extraordinarily talented in fucking it up. =:-)
RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
TheBigBlueOne : 9/1/2015 5:03 pm : link
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
to accept ketchup on a hot dog.

With at least a 3:1 mustard:ketchup ratio.
it was 1987 or so  
idiotsavant : 9/1/2015 5:35 pm : link
during my stay with the Branch Dividians.

I was washing the floor in The Bungalo, where David often stayed (Koresh to you outsiders).

Someone stuck their head in the door and said:

"good job Number 7".

Right then and there, I knew three things.

I knew that I had moved up from Number 8.

I knew we wouldn't be seeing the old Number 7 any more.

and...I knew what the hogs had been so excited about around breakfast.


RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
eli4life : 9/1/2015 5:45 pm : link
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:
Quote:
to accept ketchup on a hot dog.


For me it's declawing cats...  
BamaBlue : 9/1/2015 5:49 pm : link
I once believed the practice barbaric and cruel. Now, I believe it is a wonderful gift to a cat and to a cat owner. I learned this lesson when my 2 year old American Long Hair used my new leather couch as his personal scratching pad. Now, declawed I have a loving pet and a pristine new couch... we've seen the light.
I was a Republican once upon a time.  
Don in DC : 9/1/2015 6:37 pm : link
I voted for a Republican (Bob Dole) for President as recently as 1996.

But by then, the center of gravity of the GOP had nearly completed an inexorable drift to the south (and, consequently toward the religious right).

I admired Eisenhower-type Republicans. I liked George H.W. Bush and Jerry Ford (though I always found Reagan to be a bit of a simpleton). I ever sorta liked and respected Nixon (mostly retrospectively, given my age), even though he was clearly pathological and a very troubled man. These guys were, at their core, practical and generally interested in doing right by their country.

But as the GOP became increasingly religious in tone and tenor, I became increasingly alienated. Unsurprising, given that, although raised very Catholic, I had figured out by 1990 or so that I just didn't believe any of it.

And as the GOP became more religious, it became more dogmatic. More absolutist, not just on matters of faith, but on everything. Taxes. Foreign policy. Abortion (naturally).

They stopped being a party of practicality and became a party of increasingly bizarre and uncompromising doctrines. At least, that's how I saw it.

So I stopped being a Republican. First I registered independent, then eventually as a Democrat. It has now been years since I voted for a Republican at any level.
RE: The gender wage gap is largely myth.  
BrettNYG10 : 9/1/2015 6:39 pm : link
In comment 12447336 kicker said:
Quote:
Welfare doesn't really affect family structure or cause people to not work.

Immigration has a very small negative impact on Americans and is largely beneficial.


If you have the time, could you point to an article/study you'd recommend on the gender wage gap?
RE: My entire life  
BMac : 9/1/2015 6:41 pm : link
In comment 12447263 River Mike said:
Quote:
I have been a registered Republican, and fairly conservative. I used to have vehement arguments with Democrat friends about many things, but my biggest hot button was "the Republicans are for the rich". I would argue that was simplistic thinking. I told them the GOP is not for the rich, they're for a healthy business environment which will benefit everyone.

I won't get into policy details or specific issues because I don't want to ignite a political discussion. I will only point out that the issues that turned me around were the financial meltdown and the issue of universal single payer health care. These two issue made me do a lot of research and a complete re-evaluation. That was my most significant change of heart and mind. I think that's as far as I can safely go and hope I've not gone too far already.

As an aside, some BBIers may note that although I am basically liberal now, I still do hold conservative views on some issues.


If there's anyone who doesn't hold a mixed liberal/conservative view, they really aren't worth listening to; they're idealogues.
Also  
Don in DC : 9/1/2015 6:42 pm : link
ketchup AND mustard on both burgers and dogs, ever since I was a kid. Anyone using only one is cheating him/herself.
RE: RE: This thread is the perfect opportunity for BBI  
buford : 9/1/2015 6:42 pm : link
In comment 12447135 MadPlaid said:
Quote:
In comment 12447114 GiantFilthy said:


Quote:


to accept ketchup on a hot dog.


NEVER!


NEVER EVER!!! And no mustard on burgers either.
Great idea for a thread topic.  
Cam in MO : 9/1/2015 7:13 pm : link
I don't think there are any sort of "gotcha" moments in my life. I feel like most of my views change almost daily as new information comes available. (Of course to address what someone said about "core beliefs" never changing- it's really tough to tell, as like most folks I'm pretty damned good at lying to myself even when I know I'm doing it. I think some of my core beliefs have changed over the years, but consider the source.)

I've found that as I get older I'm much slower to accept new ideas without first investigating the source- obviously not perfect at it, I don't think anyone is. I think much of that has to do with the incredible amount of information (and bullshit) available at your fingertips and in your pocket nowadays. I'm also not really all that sure if my skepticism is any sort of wisdom or if it stems more from cynicism. Meh, whatever.

Kinda off topic- if it's a man raping another man or a woman raping a man are those lesser crimes because the victim cannot get pregnant against their will?

can think of one that stands out in particular  
WeatherMan : 9/1/2015 7:23 pm : link
it's certainly not unique to me, but I'm of a vastly different mindset on many things if you divide my life into before and after major medical diagnosis. That's got a way of inducing paradigm shifts.
As a teenager I was with my dad in support of the Vietnam War.  
wgenesis123 : 9/1/2015 7:28 pm : link
As I became a teenage rebel I thought more for myself and that war did not make a damn bit of sense to me. I became a bit of a peace lover. Still I had mixed feelings and was prepared to serve if called upon, but I was not going to volunteer. I was sick over the way our soldiers were treated when they came home. It seemed like there were plenty of stupid people on both sides of the issue. As my friends ate up all the hippie peace crap, I realized I did not want this either. I realized my dad or the hippies, people get involved in things they believe in and do stupid shit. I made up my mind to think for myself and not follow people doing stupid shit. I stopped being a follower and became a leader. Oh and fuck Vietnam, I hate that war. God bless our soldiers who got caught up in that war.
Blah. Don't mean views change daily as in a 180.  
Cam in MO : 9/1/2015 7:29 pm : link
Meant that it is a progression day by day, little by little as more information becomes available.
Most of the best advice I received in life...  
Dunedin81 : 9/1/2015 7:32 pm : link
I received very early. My grandmother in particular said things that at the time I sloughed off as quaint or well-meaning but naive. But with the passage of time and a decent breadth of life experience a lot of what I accepted from ideologically tinged book learning I came to doubt and a lot of what I initially rejected I came to revere. Most notable among this was "there but for the grace of God go I."
Come on this is a great thread, you guys got to open up a little bit.  
wgenesis123 : 9/1/2015 8:17 pm : link
I will go again. The first time I jumped out of an airplane I messed up bending forward. This caused me to roll and my parachute opened up under me. I changed my mind and wanted to go back on the plane. It didn't happen. The chute knocked me for a loop and I ended up in the proper position under the chute. I made six more jumps and witnessed a couple partial malfunctions and decided I don't want to do this anymore.
I used to prefer MaryAnn...  
silverfox : 9/1/2015 9:15 pm : link
...but now after many years...I'm leaning towards Ginger.
Not easy to admit this and I don't speak on it regularly  
j_rud : 9/1/2015 11:28 pm : link
but I have a relevant story.

As a kid and up through my later teen years I was of the mind that if a joke was funny,regardless of how distasteful it was, it was still just a joke and only as harmful as the offended allowed it to be. Then one day just shooting the shit around the barracks a few of us were trading brutally off-color jokes. As the laughter grew so did the audience. I decided to throw out a particularly crude joke about the Special Olympics. A Vietnam vet who did three tours and could've snapped me in half like dry timber approached me, got nose to nose with me, and sternly stated: that might not be so funny if you had a daughter with cerebral palsy, asshole".

I was mortified and embarrassed at my insensitivity. I later apologized to the man, and he was gracious enough to accept that. I told him that he opened my eyes to my ignorance, and I haven't told one of those jokes again. That was 14 years ago.
What was the joke?  
BrettNYG10 : 9/2/2015 8:17 am : link
.
RE: For me it's declawing cats...  
x meadowlander : 9/2/2015 8:54 am : link
In comment 12447618 BamaBlue said:
Quote:
I once believed the practice barbaric and cruel. Now, I believe it is a wonderful gift to a cat and to a cat owner. I learned this lesson when my 2 year old American Long Hair used my new leather couch as his personal scratching pad. Now, declawed I have a loving pet and a pristine new couch... we've seen the light.
The EXACT OPPOSITE happened to my wife and I. Had an incredibly sweet and loving female who was shredding curtains... including shower curtains. Had her declawed.

She lost her fucking mind.

Literally.

Personality completely changed. Turned nasty. Got into the habit of shitting in the tub, never broke her of it. Licked all the fur off her belly. This wasn't an older cat - maybe she was 4. Then she started fighting with our other cats - wound up giving her to my sister in law.

I'll never declaw another cat.
One of the benefits of always being right  
Rob in CT/NYC : 9/2/2015 9:05 am : link
From the jump is not having these moments.

RE: One of the benefits of always being right  
Cam in MO : 9/2/2015 9:21 am : link
In comment 12448391 Rob in CT/NYC said:
Quote:
From the jump is not having these moments.


Do you know someone like that?

I grew up very liberal  
pjcas18 : 9/2/2015 9:25 am : link
probably all through college, like many cock-eyed optimists and no-experience idealists.

My life experiences made me more conservative (on fiscal issues at least), so no one event, just the accumulated life experiences of growing up in a family with a single mother raising three kids, going to college, getting an apartment, getting married, buying a house, having kids, raising kids, etc. has shifted a lot of my views.

I suspect when I become a senior citizen and am no longer a contributing member of the workforce my views may very well change again (as it suits me and my family).
I'd say the only thing for me was when I came to the realization  
Peter in Atl : 9/2/2015 9:30 am : link
of how young a man my father was when he died at age 48.
I had a friend whose father and grandfather died at 42.  
wgenesis123 : 9/2/2015 6:51 pm : link
My friend was convinced he would die at 42. At 41 he sold his business and went up to Cape Cod and went fishing for two years. At about his 43rd birthday the money ran out and he realized he wasn't going to die at 42.
RE: I had a friend whose father and grandfather died at 42.  
River Mike : 9/2/2015 6:56 pm : link
In comment 12449634 wgenesis123 said:
Quote:
My friend was convinced he would die at 42. At 41 he sold his business and went up to Cape Cod and went fishing for two years. At about his 43rd birthday the money ran out and he realized he wasn't going to die at 42.


I can empathize with that. My father also died at 42, and although I didn't sell everything and go fishing, it was a tough year for me.
OHM  
spike : 9/2/2015 6:58 pm : link
I'm Dust.
What makes people shift?  
djm : 9/2/2015 7:18 pm : link
A humbling experience or two.

Far too many people refuse to be humbled or are never humbled. Want to relate to someone else's plight? Live that plight or experience aspects of that plight and you will undoubtably appreciate someone else's misfortune or plight.

Far too many are self absorbed and self righteous.
When I was 40  
natefit : 9/2/2015 7:19 pm : link
I thought I had all the answers. Now at 56 all I have is questions. And Im learning anew every day. Open mind, open heart.
The first time I remember hearing that "I am dust" theory,  
wgenesis123 : 9/2/2015 9:07 pm : link
was the movie Gladiator.
A lot experience change us.  
ctc in ftmyers : 9/2/2015 9:37 pm : link
First time one of your grandparents die in your house.

First time you cross the line in the sand to stand with one of your friends who isn't the same race or the same sexual preferences as you.

16 years old in the Port Authority and a child comes up to you and says I'm lost and my parents said to talk to an adult. 1968?

First time you do what is right no matter what the cool crowd thinks.

I can think of many instances that shaped my heart and mind.

To add to fatman's post  
River Mike : 9/2/2015 9:43 pm : link
regarding exposure to other cultures, that sort of thing had a great influence on my life. From young childhood through my teenage years I basically grew up in a black culture, the only white kid in that part of New Haven (Winchester and Dixwell Avenues for NH natives. I can't say it was an entirely pleasant experience what with our poverty and the fact that I occasionally got the shit kicked out of me for being white. But the culture is not foreign to me, and that's a help in understanding a lot that's happening. As I grew older my life took me into white culture.

My ex wife was (is) a beautiful woman from Puerto Rico. My first trip to the islands involved some apprehension on my part regarding how I would fit in and how comfortable I would be in that culture. Turned out to be an incredibly marvelous experience and I am richer for it.

I am glad I did not go through life insulated from other cultures. I learned that while cultures are certainly different, people are not.
This  
ctc in ftmyers : 9/2/2015 10:02 pm : link
"I learned that while cultures are certainly different, people are not."

In a nutshell.

Really that simple.
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