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| An Illinois police officer was shot and killed in Lake County on Tuesday, a law enforcement source told CNN. A search is on for three suspects, authorities said. Law enforcement on foot and in helicopters are combing the area, said Lake County Sheriff's Sgt. Christopher Covelli. The shooting happened about 10 minutes before 8 a.m. local time, according to the sergeant. Canine units have also been dispatched, and residents have been asked to remain inside their homes and businesses, he said. "We asked residents to report any suspicious activity they happen to see, whether they think it's something minor or major and to keep an eye out for these three individuals," Covelli said. |
On Brietbart, a call for greater use of police cams is attacked as "blaming the victim."
And yet, some studies have indicated pretty strongly that increased use of police cams reduces BOTH incidents of aggressive policing, and false accusations of aggressive policing. If accurate, this would help with what I have talking about throughout this thread, which is finding ways to break the cycle of:
--overly aggressive policing--where it exists to
--contempt for police even where it doesn't exist to
--killings of police by thugs who think they have an excuse, to
--highly edgy police who shoot more frequently out of genuine fear for their lives in this highly charged atmosphere.
It could very well be that police cams are one tool in breaking that cycle. But not in the Breitbart world.
We need leadership consensus, and we need plans, now more than ever, or poor neighborhoods will be in greater danger, and cops will be as well. Rage on both extremes is no solution at all.
I'm surprised Breitbart had time enough to cover this in between fawning adulation of all things Trump.
Body cameras are an important tool, but we do need to understand some of their implications. When it comes to prosecution they're a huge manpower commitment (think about the implications for discovery in even misdemeanor cases). Are states and localities going to fund these positions? And are we the people actually comfortable being recorded in every interaction with the police? This includes our worst moments, which would conceivably be FOIA-able. Again, on the balance I think they should win. But they're an imperfect solution.
You post something that adds no value whatsoever to the discussion, whose sole purpose is to denigrate a movement you don't care for, then say "What did I do?" when I called you out on it. But, hey, I guess that's on me for falling for an idiot troll's post.
I'm out, knew i should have stayed off this thread.
It was from the article headline - ( New Window )
Then look at what some minorities are seeing. Seemingly unjustified deaths at the hands of police. A feeling of helplessness. And Stop and Frisk (aka you dont get 4th amendment rights if you're a young black man). If the NYPD was stopping white kids on the Upper East Side based on neighborhood + "furtive movement", that shit would have been shut down in 72 hours.
This post is a very accurate description of the reality of minority policing. Thank you.
You post something that adds no value whatsoever to the discussion, whose sole purpose is to denigrate a movement you don't care for, then say "What did I do?" when I called you out on it. But, hey, I guess that's on me for falling for an idiot troll's post.
I don't care for the "Black Lives Matter" slogan, either. I firmly believe that African Americans and Latinos do get the short end of the stick with law enforcement in many cities and towns.
It is just wrong because ALL lives matter and that would be a better slogan - it wouldn't offend every other ethnic group and it wouldn't further isolate one group of people from the other ethnic groups.
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You said, "Black Lives Matter supporter..."
You post something that adds no value whatsoever to the discussion, whose sole purpose is to denigrate a movement you don't care for, then say "What did I do?" when I called you out on it. But, hey, I guess that's on me for falling for an idiot troll's post.
I don't care for the "Black Lives Matter" slogan, either. I firmly believe that African Americans and Latinos do get the short end of the stick with law enforcement in many cities and towns.
It is just wrong because ALL lives matter and that would be a better slogan - it wouldn't offend every other ethnic group and it wouldn't further isolate one group of people from the other ethnic groups.
Black Lives DO Matter. Blue Lives Matter too though. All lives matter. Highlighting the seemingly high instance of unjustified shootings of black men is absolutely appropriate and understandable, but certainly some bearing the mantle have taken that to preach hatred. And the idea that "Blue Lives Matter" is somehow racist when a handful of officers appear to have been quite literally executed - as opposed to dying responding to domestics or even traffic stops as has been an occupational hazard for decades - is upsetting too. I've worked very closely with law enforcement for several years but this is the first time I've heard officers express concerns that they would be targeted for violence simply because they're police officers.
Lets just continue to justify violence and crime. For all of you who think the cops are just going to start smiling at everyone tomorrow, you are nuts. Not until the streets change. That will never happen either.
So, we will just keep putting the offenders and the bad cops in jail.
2) An even more recent spate of executions of cops...
you aren't worried that there might be something related going on, and want to look for ways to break the cycle?
Mind you, this is no way justifies what is now going on with police killings, it just means that if we don't find a way to break the cycle, there will be more dead cops, and then more trigger-happy ones. Personally, that worries me, a lot.
Finding a way to break the cycle is called "leadership."
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Slain Cop Deserved Execution and Had ‘Creepy Perv Eyes,’ Says #BlackLivesMatter Supporter
I'm out, knew i should have stayed off this thread. It was from the article headline - ( New Window )
What a fucking idiot.
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it was from the breitbart article headline, I should have linked it, didn't think anyone was going to be so offended by it.
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Slain Cop Deserved Execution and Had ‘Creepy Perv Eyes,’ Says #BlackLivesMatter Supporter
I'm out, knew i should have stayed off this thread. It was from the article headline - ( New Window )
What a fucking idiot.
I am an idiot?
Ferguson isn't just about the single killing, for example Ferguson is about a town that made it's budget for years by hauling black asses into court.
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For example, in 88% of the cases in which the Ferguson police reported using force, it was against African-Americans. Also, between 2012 and 2014, black drivers were twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during traffic stops, but 26% less likely to be found in possession of contraband.
There are problems, of course, nationwide, with misuse of the bail system, bullying people--especially minorities--into accepting guilty pleas to avoid pre-trial incarceration. Massive overuse of imprisonment. A failed war on drugs.
There isn't any easy answer here. Hoodlums, thugs and street gangs are taking advantage of the resentment in community after community to justify a war on cops. There have to be solutions which get rid of old police attitudes about black communities, while expanding the use of community policing and reducing incarceration.
These kinds of transitions are never easy, and there needs to be much stronger leadership within the black community to say to the thugs, "cut this shit out," and at the same time to engage police forces and legislatures to resolve the issues that led to the growing rage and resentment in the first place.
I wish there were a way to create this kind of transition that doesn't involve giving people with hate in their heart excuses for murderous behavior. I don't know what it is. Link - ( New Window )
5 posts in and this thread goes to shit
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Ù
how we select, evaluate, and train police officers. It really pisses me off to see off the cuff comments like this one...
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Here is a radical idea for change that applies to everyone... IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE ARRESTED THEN STOP BREAKING THE FUCKING LAW!!
Easy for someone who is not likely to get profiled to say stupid shit like this.
Bingo David. I couldn't believe that sentence when I read it. Are we now to believe that everyone who is arrested should be presumed guilty?
No but the problem is that people who get stopped or investigated MUST cooperate with law enforcement at virtually alm times. Yes we have rights. But some of these "innocents who get shot or beat up, dont exactly fall in line with what is asked if them. If you get arrested or detained, follow the rules and call a lawyer. If they have no reason to detain you, ask them if they plan on detaining you and wait till they say you can go.
The bottom line is that practically none of these victims of the police ever go down without a fight.
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In comment 12448079 pjcas18 said:
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it was from the breitbart article headline, I should have linked it, didn't think anyone was going to be so offended by it.
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Slain Cop Deserved Execution and Had ‘Creepy Perv Eyes,’ Says #BlackLivesMatter Supporter
I'm out, knew i should have stayed off this thread. It was from the article headline - ( New Window )
What a fucking idiot.
I am an idiot?
I'm talking about the idiot in the link you posted. Sorry, thought that would be clear.
2) An even more recent spate of executions of cops...
you aren't worried that there might be something related going on, and want to look for ways to break the cycle?
Mind you, this is no way justifies what is now going on with police killings, it just means that if we don't find a way to break the cycle, there will be more dead cops, and then more trigger-happy ones. Personally, that worries me, a lot.
Finding a way to break the cycle is called "leadership."
Right, we need to break the cycle. I agree. Lets start with leadership...our President who NEVER ... NOT ONCE has said that there is a shared responsibility here. NOT ONCE has he spoken to the minority groups who ARE also committing the crimes about their behavior. He has continued to foster the divide by speaking about how the police are the issue. He will (in the same sentence) say that he values the job that the police do.. "BUT". He is creating the environment where there is retaliation against the police. He has created this hate that is out there right now. Remember, he is by nature an activist. It is in his DNA. He his continuing to play the role as activist in his new job as POTUS.
SO, if you think that a police chief is where leadership should begin, then you are wrong. It needs to begin at the top.
I agree with that. Of course, if you said it around Black Lives Matters (the organization) you'd be shouted down and called a racist.
2) An even more recent spate of executions of cops...
you aren't worried that there might be something related going on, and want to look for ways to break the cycle?
Mind you, this is no way justifies what is now going on with police killings, it just means that if we don't find a way to break the cycle, there will be more dead cops, and then more trigger-happy ones. Personally, that worries me, a lot.
Finding a way to break the cycle is called "leadership."
Has there been a "recent spate of killings of unarmed black men" or has the media drawn attention to a phenomenon that has been occurring with unfortunate frequency for decades? The fact that they were unarmed is only the beginning of the inquiry; there are bad shoots of armed men and "good" shoots of unarmed men. But I'm not convinced the problem is getting worse. Isn't the trend of what is euphemistically called an "officer-involved shooting" relatively stable despite population increases? And isn't the trend of officer fatalities on the job generally downward, with a few short-duration spikes in the opposite direction? If the numbers spike this year it might be attributable to these handful of execution-style killings of LEOs, but generally speaking the trends seem more optimistic.
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worth the time and effort to argue with, since all you're doing is taking other people's comments out of context and getting your panties in a knot. I drop by to talk sports, and read up on other stuff I find interesting. I'm sorry if your interpretation of "that's not quite what he said" is "mmmhmming". You're a pathetic shitstain who constantly needs to bitch.
Go fuck yourself. The next time you or a loved one has an emergency or is the victim of a crime, why don't you tell the responding officer how highly you think of his profession?
Amen to that. Nuf said.
Lets just continue to justify violence and crime. For all of you who think the cops are just going to start smiling at everyone tomorrow, you are nuts. Not until the streets change. That will never happen either.
So, we will just keep putting the offenders and the bad cops in jail.
lol
head in the sand
so, when I saw that quote, I thought, this is ridiculous, if more people see this it might help them move more to the center and understand yes black lives matter, but so do all lives, equally. In the case of the Walter Scott shooting if there were any comments defending the police officer with antagonistic comments about Scott I think that would have helped people see that murder for what it was.
I'm not clear why posting that tweet is inflammatory, I never said anyone on here agrees with it, I just wanted to demonstrate how real people have applied a real mantra to a ridiculous level and I think the violence we're seeing supports that it's not just one person.
Quote:
1) after the recent spate of police killings of unarmed men; and
2) An even more recent spate of executions of cops...
you aren't worried that there might be something related going on, and want to look for ways to break the cycle?
Mind you, this is no way justifies what is now going on with police killings, it just means that if we don't find a way to break the cycle, there will be more dead cops, and then more trigger-happy ones. Personally, that worries me, a lot.
Finding a way to break the cycle is called "leadership."
Has there been a "recent spate of killings of unarmed black men" or has the media drawn attention to a phenomenon that has been occurring with unfortunate frequency for decades? The fact that they were unarmed is only the beginning of the inquiry; there are bad shoots of armed men and "good" shoots of unarmed men. But I'm not convinced the problem is getting worse. Isn't the trend of what is euphemistically called an "officer-involved shooting" relatively stable despite population increases? And isn't the trend of officer fatalities on the job generally downward, with a few short-duration spikes in the opposite direction? If the numbers spike this year it might be attributable to these handful of execution-style killings of LEOs, but generally speaking the trends seem more optimistic.
That's pretty much the whole point to me. Nope, it isn't getting worse. It isn't getting all that much better, either. And that's THE problem. There is a spotlight because of availability of cameras that is pointing at inequalities in the system-particularly as it relates to law enforcement.
Earlier you somewhat dismissed the role that race plays in all of this by correctly pointing to socioeconomic status as the main driver for violent crime. Unfortunately that leaves out the role race plays in socioeconomic status.
The shootings that are being highlighted are just a symptom to a much larger problem that absolutely does have a basis in institutional racism.
Has there been a "recent spate of killings of unarmed black men" or has the media drawn attention to a phenomenon that has been occurring with unfortunate frequency for decades? The fact that they were unarmed is only the beginning of the inquiry; there are bad shoots of armed men and "good" shoots of unarmed men. But I'm not convinced the problem is getting worse. Isn't the trend of what is euphemistically called an "officer-involved shooting" relatively stable despite population increases? And isn't the trend of officer fatalities on the job generally downward, with a few short-duration spikes in the opposite direction? If the numbers spike this year it might be attributable to these handful of execution-style killings of LEOs, but generally speaking the trends seem more optimistic.
I strongly suspect that there has been no increase. The information revolution has been incredible for mankind, but national 24/7 cable news, internet news etc. has made all news seem local. A guy gets shot by a cop in Cleveland isnt news in NY 30 years ago, but is now. And it makes it seem like more killings are happening, but they're probably not. Moreover, the availability of cell phone video is for the first time putting two sides to the stories of cop shootings; if there is no video its pretty easy to make a bad shoot look like a good shoot if the investigators/ME arent inclined to give a cop a hard time.
This perception bias isnt just limited to the cop shooting issue. Think of how often you've heard phrases like "the world is more dangerous than ever". Is it really? A lot of evidence suggests that the world is the least violent that it has ever been. There is very little war. Murder rates have been dropping drastically for centuries (estimates of pre-1776 Europe/America were ~30-40 per 100k; 2014 NYC murder rate was 4 per 100k).
That said, there is no curve. Just because things are getting better does not invalidate a movement to say "enough of this shit".
so, when I saw that quote, I thought, this is ridiculous, if more people see this it might help them move more to the center and understand yes black lives matter, but so do all lives, equally. In the case of the Walter Scott shooting if there were any comments defending the police officer with antagonistic comments about Scott I think that would have helped people see that murder for what it was.
I'm not clear why posting that tweet is inflammatory, I never said anyone on here agrees with it, I just wanted to demonstrate how real people have applied a real mantra to a ridiculous level and I think the violence we're seeing supports that it's not just one person.
What's my extreme position again? Because I wont even attempt to get into the nonsense that was the rest of your post.
And to be honest I really don't care what you think.
Ok- did these social and cultural phenomena just spontaneously appear?
I get what you're saying I think. I also think we are pretty much in agreement that the problems low income and minority folks face aren't attributed to just "the man."
I'm not trying to excuse any behavior or attempting to pin it all on a villain.
I guess I just get tired of folks dismissing race and the impact of our recent history (within a generation) as not having an impact on black culture today.
Pretty much how I assume you feel when folks put all the blame at the feet of racism.
And to be honest I really don't care what you think.
So to be clear, when you said "it is seeing the extreme side you support that help people reach rational conclusions and stay more grounded" you were just talking out of your ass.
Got it. And you're right- a lot of folks do mean a present-tense villain when they're talking about racism. IMO, they're being incredibly short sighted.
take a break would you. I think 99% of people understand how to read that. I feel like the only people who don't are the ones intentionally trying to pick a fight with someone. And you accuse me of trolling.
take a breath and walk away.
This is next step in the cycle I was referring to: weaker recruiting means less competent recruits from a smaller pool of applicants. And, that, combined with more nervous cops, most likely means more bad events.
Picture a nervous recruit who probably shouldn't have been hired in the first place who stops a car for a traffic violation, walking up to a car with an open driver window.
Btw, a next step in the cycle is a shortage beyond recruiting, as cops refuse to patrol by themselves. No more one-man cars. I know I wouldn't do it in this environment. You?
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
1) after the recent spate of police killings of unarmed men; and
2) An even more recent spate of executions of cops...
you aren't worried that there might be something related going on, and want to look for ways to break the cycle?
Mind you, this is no way justifies what is now going on with police killings, it just means that if we don't find a way to break the cycle, there will be more dead cops, and then more trigger-happy ones. Personally, that worries me, a lot.
Finding a way to break the cycle is called "leadership."
Right, we need to break the cycle. I agree. Lets start with leadership...our President who NEVER ... NOT ONCE has said that there is a shared responsibility here. NOT ONCE has he spoken to the minority groups who ARE also committing the crimes about their behavior. He has continued to foster the divide by speaking about how the police are the issue. He will (in the same sentence) say that he values the job that the police do.. "BUT". He is creating the environment where there is retaliation against the police. He has created this hate that is out there right now. Remember, he is by nature an activist. It is in his DNA. He his continuing to play the role as activist in his new job as POTUS.
SO, if you think that a police chief is where leadership should begin, then you are wrong. It needs to begin at the top.
This is an absolute ans utter lie... Ans is constantly repeated as truth... It's another attempt at a gotcha by people who wouldn't like home regardless of what he does.
You write this as if from the perspective of an observer. It totally devalues the actual ongoing historic and present tense actual racism that at least 45 million Americans experience on a daily basis.
Racism is not an academic thought experiment or a status eliminated through achievement. Its a constant and consistent devaluation of an individual based on color; some of it is overt and conscious like that idiot Nathan Ener. Most of it unconscious and subconscious slights and innuendoes and suppositions about a persons capabilities, background and most of all RIGHTs.
Racism is the very real the agglomeration of effects that are personal and professional, during all waking moments of individuals life that comes from other peoples biases about you. They maybe active in terms of policing or passive in terms of job and house hunting but they are real all the same.
Its not a false bogeyman or trope. Its an experience that never, ever ends because the majority culture believes it doesn't exist.
You sound like someone who can make a difference.
What we need right now.
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maybe the word "racism" just conjures up something different for me, namely a present-tense villain. I would describe it as the legacy of racism, and on that I would agree it probably deserves a fair share of blame.
You write this as if from the perspective of an observer. It totally devalues the actual ongoing historic and present tense actual racism that at least 45 million Americans experience on a daily basis.
Racism is not an academic thought experiment or a status eliminated through achievement. Its a constant and consistent devaluation of an individual based on color; some of it is overt and conscious like that idiot Nathan Ener. Most of it unconscious and subconscious slights and innuendoes and suppositions about a persons capabilities, background and most of all RIGHTs.
Racism is the very real the agglomeration of effects that are personal and professional, during all waking moments of individuals life that comes from other peoples biases about you. They maybe active in terms of policing or passive in terms of job and house hunting but they are real all the same.
Its not a false bogeyman or trope. Its an experience that never, ever ends because the majority culture believes it doesn't exist.
Perhaps it's an experience that never, ever ends because the leading lights of what purports to be "minority culture" insist on finding it everywhere. I deal with poor white and poor black people every day. There is virtually nothing different about them. Education, family background, delinquency, speech, priorities (stated or demonstrated). Through education and military I have middle class white and black friends and relatively affluent white and black friends. The abiding common threads among outcomes (succeeding, getting by, not getting by) are economic, not ethic. Racism exists, racism matters, but it has been my experience that the poor black kid has a lot more in common with the poor white kid than he does with the affluent black kid.
You sound like someone who can make a difference.
What we need right now.
Brother, I'm an old man... too old for that. But old enough to know that most Americans and most people are good hearted and not evil, biased or racist. I'm balanced in my views of the world and of people. I'm always willing to listen, evaluate and give people the benefit of the doubt.
That's about my only good quality
Monica Foy might be a nominee for this year's Darwin Award. Apparently, she posted this while having an outstanding arrest warrant for "assault causing bodily harm". It wasn't hard to follow the trail of breadcrumbs she left.
Link - ( New Window )
The handful of video-ed incidents, and the really racist e-mail cross-talk in some jurisdictions simply brought this behavior into the light. Are there more bad behavior and bad attitudes now? No, probably less, with all those videos around. But there is still a lot of underlying anger regarding historical behavior that was absolutely never prosecuted. And even now, with videos, the tendency for juries to accept the most convoluted explanations by cops still exists. And meanwhile, you still have some jurisdictions where any excuse to harass or demean minorities is considered OK, including overuse of stop and frisk and driving while black type tactics. Is it the majority? Of course not. It's a small minority, but it exists.
So, you get "Black Lives Matter," and then you get some fucktards who think that knocking off random cops is a reasonable response. That is not what "Black Lives Matter" is about. But as in all movements that grow up out of rage, some people respond irrationally.
This gets back to my main premise. The increased visibility of bad but unpunished behavior by a handful of cops and a handful of rogue police departments pushed all of this out into the open, kicking off a cycle that is yet to be ended. It needs to be ended. Until is does, you get more killings of cops, more nervous cops, more difficulty recruiting cops and a lot of other messes that are all related.
So is "Black Lives Matter" helping? Maybe a little. But they too, need to take part in breaking the cycle, and aggressively condemning cop killers, and so far I have seen little evidence that they are doing so. All they seem to be is pissed off. If you want to lead, then lead.
The head of the Minneapolis Black Lives Matter was on CNN last night, either Anderson Cooper or Don Lemon (I forget which). He basically equivocated and would not outright denounce "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". As opposed to helping a little I think they're a net negative.
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in the slightest. I will suggest, however, that the attitude about the police in many black communities has been set to explode for years now.
Ferguson isn't just about the single killing, for example Ferguson is about a town that made it's budget for years by hauling black asses into court.
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For example, in 88% of the cases in which the Ferguson police reported using force, it was against African-Americans. Also, between 2012 and 2014, black drivers were twice as likely as white drivers to be searched during traffic stops, but 26% less likely to be found in possession of contraband.
There are problems, of course, nationwide, with misuse of the bail system, bullying people--especially minorities--into accepting guilty pleas to avoid pre-trial incarceration. Massive overuse of imprisonment. A failed war on drugs.
There isn't any easy answer here. Hoodlums, thugs and street gangs are taking advantage of the resentment in community after community to justify a war on cops. There have to be solutions which get rid of old police attitudes about black communities, while expanding the use of community policing and reducing incarceration.
These kinds of transitions are never easy, and there needs to be much stronger leadership within the black community to say to the thugs, "cut this shit out," and at the same time to engage police forces and legislatures to resolve the issues that led to the growing rage and resentment in the first place.
I wish there were a way to create this kind of transition that doesn't involve giving people with hate in their heart excuses for murderous behavior. I don't know what it is. Link - ( New Window )
5 posts in and this thread goes to shit
Just because you're confronted with an uncomfortable truth doesn't mean the thread has gone to shit.
It's as if people can't comprehend that different groups are treated vastly different by police officers and the justice system.
Why is it so hard to believe?
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So is "Black Lives Matter" helping? Maybe a little. But they too, need to take part in breaking the cycle, and aggressively condemning cop killers, and so far I have seen little evidence that they are doing so. All they seem to be is pissed off. If you want to lead, then lead.
The head of the Minneapolis Black Lives Matter was on CNN last night, either Anderson Cooper or Don Lemon (I forget which). He basically equivocated and would not outright denounce "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". As opposed to helping a little I think they're a net negative.
You are obviously going to have idiots that spew anti-establishment rhetoric, sometimes violent. There are definitely whackos inside BLM.
However, the fact that it's brought this issue into a national conversation alone makes their affect a net positive, IMO. Although this depends on how much one believes that Black Lives Matter is influencing and inspiring violence against cops. I don't think it's inherently Black Lives Matter that is inspiring violence against the police. I think it's more just a combination of circumstances, social media, media coverage of events, and pent up anger over the behavior of law enforcement. To me, it's not all attached to a movement. If Black Lives Matter disappeared, I don't think the anger would dissipate.
Black Lives Matter does some stupid shit that really pisses me off. Interrupting the Bernie Sanders rally was idiotic and moronic. They don't realize they are hurting their own cause by doing this. And while I don't always agree with their message, particularly when they cross the line into violent rhetoric or pulling moves like the Sanders interruption, I do wholeheartedly believe that the core of their complaints has credence and credibility. I can't fathom how people try and debase the foundation of their anger.
Also, Fox News asking why Black Lives Matter isn't classified as a hate group was so fucking stupid and deserves a shitload of ridicule.
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In comment 12450815 manh george said:
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So is "Black Lives Matter" helping? Maybe a little. But they too, need to take part in breaking the cycle, and aggressively condemning cop killers, and so far I have seen little evidence that they are doing so. All they seem to be is pissed off. If you want to lead, then lead.
The head of the Minneapolis Black Lives Matter was on CNN last night, either Anderson Cooper or Don Lemon (I forget which). He basically equivocated and would not outright denounce "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". As opposed to helping a little I think they're a net negative.
You are obviously going to have idiots that spew anti-establishment rhetoric, sometimes violent. There are definitely whackos inside BLM.
However, the fact that it's brought this issue into a national conversation alone makes their affect a net positive, IMO. Although this depends on how much one believes that Black Lives Matter is influencing and inspiring violence against cops. I don't think it's inherently Black Lives Matter that is inspiring violence against the police. I think it's more just a combination of circumstances, social media, media coverage of events, and pent up anger over the behavior of law enforcement. To me, it's not all attached to a movement. If Black Lives Matter disappeared, I don't think the anger would dissipate.
Black Lives Matter does some stupid shit that really pisses me off. Interrupting the Bernie Sanders rally was idiotic and moronic. They don't realize they are hurting their own cause by doing this. And while I don't always agree with their message, particularly when they cross the line into violent rhetoric or pulling moves like the Sanders interruption, I do wholeheartedly believe that the core of their complaints has credence and credibility. I can't fathom how people try and debase the foundation of their anger.
Also, Fox News asking why Black Lives Matter isn't classified as a hate group was so fucking stupid and deserves a shitload of ridicule.
Yet the left calling the tea party a terrorist group isn't condemned? Its free reign on right wing groups but not left. Got it.
I don't see anybody killing legal officials of any kind based on any sect of the tea party. Yet BLM chant "fry the piggies" and you are exonerating them by simply saying you truly believe in your heart of hearts? Give me a break.
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In comment 12450815 manh george said:
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So is "Black Lives Matter" helping? Maybe a little. But they too, need to take part in breaking the cycle, and aggressively condemning cop killers, and so far I have seen little evidence that they are doing so. All they seem to be is pissed off. If you want to lead, then lead.
The head of the Minneapolis Black Lives Matter was on CNN last night, either Anderson Cooper or Don Lemon (I forget which). He basically equivocated and would not outright denounce "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". As opposed to helping a little I think they're a net negative.
You are obviously going to have idiots that spew anti-establishment rhetoric, sometimes violent. There are definitely whackos inside BLM.
However, the fact that it's brought this issue into a national conversation alone makes their affect a net positive, IMO.
This issue was a part of the national conversation WAY, WAY, WAY before Black Lives Matter arrived on the scene. And "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon" one day after an officer was shot 15 times in cold blood is essentially equivalent to a police group chanting "N***** deserved it" after Michael Brown was shot. If the leadership of the organization can't come out and unequivocally condemn that means they are not a net positive. Denouncing as racist someone who says "all lives matter" is one of the most blatant example of reverse racism in recent years.
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In comment 12450840 njm said:
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In comment 12450815 manh george said:
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So is "Black Lives Matter" helping? Maybe a little. But they too, need to take part in breaking the cycle, and aggressively condemning cop killers, and so far I have seen little evidence that they are doing so. All they seem to be is pissed off. If you want to lead, then lead.
The head of the Minneapolis Black Lives Matter was on CNN last night, either Anderson Cooper or Don Lemon (I forget which). He basically equivocated and would not outright denounce "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". As opposed to helping a little I think they're a net negative.
You are obviously going to have idiots that spew anti-establishment rhetoric, sometimes violent. There are definitely whackos inside BLM.
However, the fact that it's brought this issue into a national conversation alone makes their affect a net positive, IMO. Although this depends on how much one believes that Black Lives Matter is influencing and inspiring violence against cops. I don't think it's inherently Black Lives Matter that is inspiring violence against the police. I think it's more just a combination of circumstances, social media, media coverage of events, and pent up anger over the behavior of law enforcement. To me, it's not all attached to a movement. If Black Lives Matter disappeared, I don't think the anger would dissipate.
Black Lives Matter does some stupid shit that really pisses me off. Interrupting the Bernie Sanders rally was idiotic and moronic. They don't realize they are hurting their own cause by doing this. And while I don't always agree with their message, particularly when they cross the line into violent rhetoric or pulling moves like the Sanders interruption, I do wholeheartedly believe that the core of their complaints has credence and credibility. I can't fathom how people try and debase the foundation of their anger.
Also, Fox News asking why Black Lives Matter isn't classified as a hate group was so fucking stupid and deserves a shitload of ridicule.
Yet the left calling the tea party a terrorist group isn't condemned? Its free reign on right wing groups but not left. Got it.
I don't see anybody killing legal officials of any kind based on any sect of the tea party. Yet BLM chant "fry the piggies" and you are exonerating them by simply saying you truly believe in your heart of hearts? Give me a break.
What's this tit for tat bullshit? If I say something that attacks the "right" (which I didn't, I only said Fox News made a dumbass comment) I need to counterbalance that with some attack on the left?
Who the fuck was even talking about the Tea Party? I'm just curious for what you expected. I have to shoehorn that I don't think the Tea Party is a terrorist group into a post that has nothing to do with the Tea Party to appease you?
My post wasn't even partisan. You made it partisan.
Also, if you think everyone in BLM is chanting "fry the piggies", you need to stop contorting reality to fit your own narrative. I already said there's obviously going to be a bunch of nutjobs in there, but as I said, the entire point isn't about EXONERATING or excusing Black Lives Matter (exonerating from what is also still perplexing, since apparently you think they're a reason that cops were shot, and I don't know if I agree with that). The point of the post is that the basis of what they are rallying for is a worthy cause. Equal treatment of minorities by the legal system and law enforcement IS a worthy cause.
Just for fun, can you explain to me again why I would need to mention the fucking Tea Party? Unbelievable how some people's minds work. "Oh no, he said something mean about fox, which is conservative, but didn't shit on a liberal outlet to counterbalance it! OUTAGE!"
Painfully partisan and childish.
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In comment 12450840 njm said:
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In comment 12450815 manh george said:
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So is "Black Lives Matter" helping? Maybe a little. But they too, need to take part in breaking the cycle, and aggressively condemning cop killers, and so far I have seen little evidence that they are doing so. All they seem to be is pissed off. If you want to lead, then lead.
The head of the Minneapolis Black Lives Matter was on CNN last night, either Anderson Cooper or Don Lemon (I forget which). He basically equivocated and would not outright denounce "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon". As opposed to helping a little I think they're a net negative.
You are obviously going to have idiots that spew anti-establishment rhetoric, sometimes violent. There are definitely whackos inside BLM.
However, the fact that it's brought this issue into a national conversation alone makes their affect a net positive, IMO.
This issue was a part of the national conversation WAY, WAY, WAY before Black Lives Matter arrived on the scene. And "pigs in a blanket, fry'em like bacon" one day after an officer was shot 15 times in cold blood is essentially equivalent to a police group chanting "N***** deserved it" after Michael Brown was shot. If the leadership of the organization can't come out and unequivocally condemn that means they are not a net positive. Denouncing as racist someone who says "all lives matter" is one of the most blatant example of reverse racism in recent years.
Sorry, I forgot Black Lives Matter was a monolithic entity that chanted one thing in unison all the fucking time.
You're living under a rock if you think Black Lives Matter hasn't brought thees types of issues more into the forefront.
BTW, there have been protests that had that kind of vitriol towards Michael Brown. Maybe they didn't say "nigger", but the sentiment was the same.
I never denounced anyone who says "All Lives Matter" is racist, but let's be real here.. the people saying "All Lives Matter" as a retort to "Black Lives Matter" are clearly acting as an opponent to debase the foundation of their movement, which is injustices against blacks.