Giants Roster Moves

In comment 12448084 Jim Burt64 said:

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Oh, BTW - Lets not forget Marvin Austin - 2nd rd.. holy fuck

Oh bullshit. Most of the people here were ecstatic with that pick. Guy was a beast the year before he got suspended.

You ARE wrong. I'm a huge Coughlin guy but on the kuhn thing I truly believe he's going to start the season with him starting. In a lot of ways kuhn has a two of the things that Coughlin values most, strength and an real dedication to the team concept and what it entails. Coughlin thinks he can win with guys like that despite what they lack in "game talent".

So I'd propose a wager, not a big one, but how about this. First defensive snap of the game on Sunday night against the boys if kuhn is in there you donate 10 dollars to eric, if he isn't I'll donate the ten. Fair?

In the end BBI is a big winner but I think your hope for SOME kind of rationale for the discrepancy between what we see as fans and what the coaching staff believes is clouding your judgment. There isn't a conspiracy at play, the guy who has run with the ones all training camp and who has started every preseason game is gonna start. Our only hope is that the media picks it up and makes it impossible for him to last more than 2 games in there.

I,like everyone else was thrilled about our 2011 Super Bowl win. I do think that we do forget that were were somewhat fortunate to even be in the playoffs with a 9-7 record and that's with winning the last two. Thankfully, we got hot at the right time but were a mediocre football team until the playoffs. Since then we have been a lousy football team and the draft picks from 2010-2012 is a major reason for it. It can be argued that we have drafted better since then but let's see it show up on the field. Hopefully,it will.

In comment 12448002 Steve Filipowicz said:

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because of his failure to draft correctly. His dismal drafting is why we haven't been to the playoffs in years. I'm not saying we should frequently win the SB but we should make the playoffs more frequently than we have. Don't believe me that Reese is below-average in drafting players? The April 25, 2015 edition of the New York Post reviewed the drafting record of each team for the 2010 thru 2014 Drafts. The result was that Reese's drafts wound up 23 out of 32 teams So, not only below-average but almost in the bottom third of all 32 teams.

Link to story.

Not impressed by the Post's statistical method. To call it false precision would put it mildly.
Link - ( New Window )

Post's methodology?

some of u guys are pathetic... opinions are like assholes folks! And some of u guys who clump together like "Heather's" are jackoffs... Fuck you.

In comment 12448127 Steve Filipowicz said:

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Post's methodology?

Will say first that I provided the link so people can decide for themselves.

One example: Linval Joseph was a great pick, but, because he left for a big FA deal, he is no longer on roster and has played many fewer games for the Giants than he would have if re-signed.

"Pro Bowls made" is an "objective" factor but, I would say, somewhat simple-minded.

And while the article lists the supposed ranking factors, the reader is given no indication of how these factors are related and weighed in the analysis. You are taking the rankings on faith, which I'm not prepared to do with any source, let alone the Post.

you actually stand by the opinion that this needs to be Reese's last year?

Before the year starts?

And we are pathetic? Alrighty then.

Before the season even starts. Hey if the Giants have a good season TC and Reese may get extended. That would be wonderfully surprising. Time will tell. Let's get out of the last preseason game without any more injuries.

during Reese's tenure.

So, if he is 23rd that would make his drafting about average.

In the same time frame Newsome has 8 players left and will likely be down to 6 after Pitta has to retire and Reid is cut

GB also has 8 guys from same years

He has had failures as picks as has every GM, but who has drafted better in the top 2 rounds - that is where you have to be correct. Yes Austin sucked, so did J. Worthy and T. Cody also picked in early 2nd.

I agree with others that Beason was a bad move, but getting on him for some shit is ridiculous, like injuries to 8 Safeties

If you actually go,look at draft history you will see the vast majority of 3-7th rd picks do not get a 2nd contracts and move around

It still amazes me that the coaching staff gets a free pass. 31 other NFL teams can successfully use late rd picks and FA OL except the Giants. Herzlich and Kuhn are a coaching issue, not a GM issue

Thompson has drafted so many defensive players over the years and their defense remains terrible and nothing is said

This is the 3rd year of the complete roster turnover. I would expect improvement again - the talent is better, sans JPP

specifying where it's incorrect is just an empty statement.

Giants averaged picking at the 19 th spot.

Giants Draft in Rounds 4 thru 7 from 2008 through 2011 EVRYONE drafted is out of the NFL. So, there was very little movement of Giants draftees in those Rounds except to move out of the NFL.

I cannot prove it at this point but my hunch is that no other GM has the same record, that is, every player drafted inRounds 4 thru 7 from 2008 thru 2011 is out of the League. One of these I'll do the analysis.

and why the fuck can we not avoid this dreaded "hamstring"????

is such a loaded statement.

This team is in a much better position than it has been over the past 3 years if we just stopped losing players to career-ending situations.

Kenny Phillips should still be here.
Nicks should still be here.
Wilson should still be here.
Snee should still be here.

The team is better and deeper if not for this inexplicable ability to draft talented played and then lose them forever way too soon.

who are so anti-Kuhn.

Not sure what they are watching.

In comment 12448244 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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is such a loaded statement. This team is in a much better position than it has been over the past 3 years if we just stopped losing players to career-ending situations. Kenny Phillips should still be here. Nicks should still be here. Wilson should still be here. Snee should still be here. The team is better and deeper if not for this inexplicable ability to draft talented played and then lose them forever way too soon.

Snee would be entering year 12 but point taken

Can you imagine David Wilson and Beckham together?

In comment 12448245 Mr. Nickels said:

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who are so anti-Kuhn. Not sure what they are watching.

The games. They're watching the games...and they see Kuhn being driven off the LOS on a consistent basis.

I ran through the list of the 74 remaining, and just lopped off the bottom end of the depth chart for each position. No major losses. For some positions, such as OL and WR it was easy to find more than one player to at the end of the depth chart who clearly was not going to make it. After that there were only three hard choices to make. As in, kids I think have some talent, but there simply is not room for them on the roster. Here goes:

QB: Stanzi
RB: Harper
FB: Whitlock
WR: Talley, Jones
TE: Robinson
OL: Gettis, Jones
DT: Kuhn, Hamilton
DE: Bars
LB: Farrand, Palmer, Herzlich
DB: Fenner, Hosely
S: Miles, Conway


+3
OL: Cleary
DB: Brown
S: Berhe

Waiving a 7th round pick (225th overall) is a "disaster"?

Have you guys only started watching football?

In comment 12448245 Mr. Nickels said:

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who are so anti-Kuhn. Not sure what they are watching.

This is a joke right?

In comment 12447538 FranknWeezer said:

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Quote: Giants Daily ‏@NYGDaily 4m4 minutes ago The only players remaining from the 2010-2012 draft classes? - JPP* - Amukamara - Randle - Hosley - Robinson - Kuhn * not under contract We have to count Victor Cruz in this group as well...although he was not drafted...Jerry and his staff deserve the credit for an outstanding free agent acquisition Quote: Giants Daily ‏@NYGDaily 8m8 minutes ago Out of the 21 picks from the 2010-2012 draft classes -- six are on the roster today and one is in South Florida "rehabbing". Yikes.

But what does reserve / injured status mean?

Does the pup designation mean Beatty is out for a min of 6 games?

In comment 12447584 bc4life said:

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return?

Smells like a pimple on his ass burst....this smells like an IR stash in order not to expose this kid to the league...hopefully he flys under the radar and they put him on IR tomorrow...he is probably the KR/ PR of the future that will come much cheaper then Harris.

I do believe Kuhn has shown enough to play himself OFF the team, but it sure is alarming the coaches' comments on him publically don't reflect his poor performance.

In comment 12448260 NYDCBlue said:

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I ran through the list of the 74 remaining, and just lopped off the bottom end of the depth chart for each position. No major losses. For some positions, such as OL and WR it was easy to find more than one player to at the end of the depth chart who clearly was not going to make it. After that there were only three hard choices to make. As in, kids I think have some talent, but there simply is not room for them on the roster. Here goes: QB: Stanzi RB: Harper FB: Whitlock WR: Talley, Jones TE: Robinson OL: Gettis, Jones DT: Kuhn, Hamilton DE: Bars LB: Farrand, Palmer, Herzlich DB: Fenner, Hosely S: Miles, Conway +3 OL: Cleary DB: Brown S: Berhe

I really think you are WAY off base here. I have no idea of what "depth chart" you were looking at, but I doubt that it is accurate.

One thing people CONSTANTLY forget about is special teams. If you are not a starter, you need to be able to play on the return or coverage teams. Also keep in mind that redundancy will play a role- in other words, if two players have the same strengths at the same positions, one will almost certainly be cut.

Looking at WR alone, it is FAR more likely that Washington and Parker get cut than Talley and Jones. Washington cannot play specials and is no better than a 6th WR. Parker is redundant to Harris- they are both 5th WR types who are better KR- meaning that you keep one and toss the other. Jones is essentially the 4th WR- and could be the 3rd if Cruz can't go. Davis is a big specials guy, even if he is a project at WR.

With the injuries and dings, the Giants will likely IR Behrle, but are not in a position to drop two more S unless they can find an adequate backup guy on the waiver wire (unlikely at this stage).

I think that the more likely RB list of cuts would be Darkwa, Harper and Whitlock. Darkwa is redundant, even if he flashed in the second half last week.

At LB, McClain has to be looking over his shoulder. He doesn't offer anything on specials, and is likely to be overtaken in the starting role by Thomas. If the Giants keep Unga, there is another redundancy- especially since Casillas will be a ST guy.

I think when the Giants put together the 53, McClain and Herzlich could both be done in by the need to overload at DB and the apparent emergence of Unga.

Whatever problems there were in the draft process appear to have been corrected. The last two drafts are very promising.

There are so many reasons to believe the arrow is pointing up with this team: recent talent infusion, promising changes at coordinator, long term uncertainty in Philadelphia. But if none of those reasons resonates then there is still this: the NFL is set up for teams to endure short lasting peaks and valleys. Only the forlorn franchises suck for consistently long periods of time.

I really don't get all the consternation this offseason. I think it's been largely positive.

In comment 12448425 Go Terps said:

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Whatever problems there were in the draft process appear to have been corrected. The last two drafts are very promising. There are so many reasons to believe the arrow is pointing up with this team: recent talent infusion, promising changes at coordinator, long term uncertainty in Philadelphia. But if none of those reasons resonates then there is still this: the NFL is set up for teams to endure short lasting peaks and valleys. Only the forlorn franchises suck for consistently long periods of time. I really don't get all the consternation this offseason. I think it's been largely positive.

Speaking of must reads(my thoughts on the "3-0" thread), you are always on my list, agreement or no agreement..I agree here..:)

.

Most fans typically like the HMWG, but Kuhn has done absolutely nothing in his entire career except get driven back from the LOS and trailing every play. I think he had a sack in garbage time last year, but thats all I can vaguely remember of any production. Same goes with Herzlich, they both have had enough time to prove themselves, and so far they have failed to achieve. These guys makes me miss a HMWG like Chase Blackburn.

But, he was included in the first cuts of the Texans in favor of back-ups consisting of a rookie 7th pick, 2 rookie UDFAs and a former UDFA in his 2d season.

Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't.

Stay tuned.

In comment 12448542 Steve Filipowicz said:

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But, he was included in the first cuts of the Texans in favor of back-ups consisting of a rookie 7th pick, 2 rookie UDFAs and a former UDFA in his 2d season. Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't. Stay tuned.

Or it could just be a matter of scheme fit

is not a good NFL player.

In comment 12448542 Steve Filipowicz said:

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But, he was included in the first cuts of the Texans in favor of back-ups consisting of a rookie 7th pick, 2 rookie UDFAs and a former UDFA in his 2d season. Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't. Stay tuned.

Honestly, I haven't see any euphoria over the signing..Have I missed something?

In comment 12448576 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 12448542 Steve Filipowicz said: Quote: But, he was included in the first cuts of the Texans in favor of back-ups consisting of a rookie 7th pick, 2 rookie UDFAs and a former UDFA in his 2d season. Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't. Stay tuned. Honestly, I haven't see any euphoria over the signing..Have I missed something?

Big Hyperbole Interactive.

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Feeling of great happiness, commonly exaggerated and not necessarily well-founded.

In SB Nation-Big BlueView: REINFORCEMENT has arrived for a safety corps that is besieged by injuries.

In Fox Sports, USA Today and Asbury Park Press: Giants re- signed Brown on Monday in a move to SHORE-UP a position that has been decimated by injuries.

Scout.com: Giants officially signed Stevie Brown to STRENGTHEN their beleaguered secondary.

I capitalized the words above. The capitalized words IMO are very strong words of approval but, unfortunately, are exaggerated and not well-founded. That's why I used the word "euphoria" concerning Brown's signing.

euphoria.

now? Or maybe provide some examples of the parade that people threw for Stevie Brown?

Reinforcement, shore-up or strengthen are synonyms for either happiness or euphoria.

But hey, you can capitalize words with the best of them. Comprehending them - not so much.

But he's also been unlucky with injuries. Chad Jones, David Wilson, Terrell Thomas, Kenny Phillips, Hakim Nicks, JPP, Steve Smith were parts of the solution, not problems. All but Jones - through no fault of his own - demonstrated plus contributions on the field. Most of those guys had at least one Pro Bowl worthy season. The 2013 and 2014 drafts are looking good, too.

What kind of standard are people holding this guy to?

gotta love ya, man, as you ride herd on the wayward, non-conforming subset of BBI membership. Crack that whip! (:> It's good for chuckles, and as often as not you do reign in and temper nonsense and unfounded declarations.

But it would be nice to see that occur with the rose colored subset as often as the skeptical subset, unless you assess the former here to be, in general, more informed and hewing closer to fact-based discussion, or more conservative in their assessments.

For me, does the frustration with recent team performance and 2015 projections of performance lead me to grouse? Yes, no doubt. Is it just temperament? Perhaps. I don't think anyone here wants to see the Giants shit the bed on the field, but when it happens with regularity, as it has in the past three years, one is inclined to look at causes and responsibility. Isn't that the way of teams and businesses in general, in order to improve going forward? One is also inclined to vent to relieve stress, frustration, anger, whatever, as we want the teams we root for to reflect the positives, and when they don't, there's a natural carryover.

Does it not work that way for you? Or, are you the type of person for whom sports entertainment and games can be compartmentalized, and analyzed, apart from the rest of your emotional complex? If so, I guess there's good in that, but may also cap the "euphoria", if I may use that word?

Get the Giants into the playoffs. He's flopped against that standard.

Willis' article today indicates that the Giants are unlikely to make the playoffs this year.

but sounding like raving lunatics while doing so isn't something I do.

when I read the game threads, I'm amazed at the number of people who actually have an anger impulse, and then mash the keyboard with "I want to fucking kill Fewell" and then think it is perfectly fine to be that way.

I don't even shout that at the TV let alone take the time to type it out.

The offseason is even worse because there is no hair trigger for the outbursts, which means they are actually thought-out moronic statements.

"actually thought out moronic statements", I'm sure I've had my share, if not here (ha), then elsewhere. What is the expression? Better to keep quiet than speak out and confirm the opinion that one is an idiot, that's the gist.

But, as to the questions in my post--you don't rant at the TV when Eli makes one of his boneheads, or a DE, CB, or LB misses a tackle that ought to have been made, or the middle of the field is left wide open for the opposing TE (it used to be Witten, but we can sub just about any of them) on a 3rd and long?

It's hard for me to relate to that restraint.

I don't rant. I said I won't even scream at the TV that I want to choke out and disembowel Fewell.

I get frustrated, but not to the point that I act like Jerry Reese puts his feet up on a desk and throws darts at names to pick, that TC just let's the players have at it, or that Player X is a lazy motherfucker just cashing a check.

There is a difference there.

In comment 12448764 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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thought-out moronic statements.

Oh yeah I'm going to borrow this. It's a perfect description for way too much of my work inbox.

so you rant but are not a Freddie Kreuger. But I appreciate the distinction. I guess it's tempting to cross the line and indulge in ad hominem commentary. My weakness is rage at not being held accountable for incompetence, be it on the phone with customer service, a repair that is botched, or a GM too long on the wrong side of his methodology or appointment of incompetents (see, Chas. Dolan, e.g.; I've long ceased to be a Knicks' fan and am only now beginning to be curious).

I don't usually venture on game threads except after the fact to take in some of the promised entertainment. I'm rarely disappointed. It's too cumbersome to type out commentary or rants in the heat of action. It would dissipate some of the immediate, full blown satisfaction of emotional fury, heh

In comment 12448415 rich in DC said:

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In comment 12448260 NYDCBlue said: Quote: I ran through the list of the 74 remaining, and just lopped off the bottom end of the depth chart for each position. No major losses. For some positions, such as OL and WR it was easy to find more than one player to at the end of the depth chart who clearly was not going to make it. After that there were only three hard choices to make. As in, kids I think have some talent, but there simply is not room for them on the roster. Here goes: QB: Stanzi RB: Harper FB: Whitlock WR: Talley, Jones TE: Robinson OL: Gettis, Jones DT: Kuhn, Hamilton DE: Bars LB: Farrand, Palmer, Herzlich DB: Fenner, Hosely S: Miles, Conway +3 OL: Cleary DB: Brown S: Berhe I really think you are WAY off base here. I have no idea of what "depth chart" you were looking at, but I doubt that it is accurate. One thing people CONSTANTLY forget about is special teams. If you are not a starter, you need to be able to play on the return or coverage teams. Also keep in mind that redundancy will play a role- in other words, if two players have the same strengths at the same positions, one will almost certainly be cut. Looking at WR alone, it is FAR more likely that Washington and Parker get cut than Talley and Jones. Washington cannot play specials and is no better than a 6th WR. Parker is redundant to Harris- they are both 5th WR types who are better KR- meaning that you keep one and toss the other. Jones is essentially the 4th WR- and could be the 3rd if Cruz can't go. Davis is a big specials guy, even if he is a project at WR. With the injuries and dings, the Giants will likely IR Behrle, but are not in a position to drop two more S unless they can find an adequate backup guy on the waiver wire (unlikely at this stage). I think that the more likely RB list of cuts would be Darkwa, Harper and Whitlock. Darkwa is redundant, even if he flashed in the second half last week. At LB, McClain has to be looking over his shoulder. He doesn't offer anything on specials, and is likely to be overtaken in the starting role by Thomas. If the Giants keep Unga, there is another redundancy- especially since Casillas will be a ST guy. I think when the Giants put together the 53, McClain and Herzlich could both be done in by the need to overload at DB and the apparent emergence of Unga.

I do not see how we are that far apart here. Talley vs Washington is not a major fight. I would argue that Talley has never passed Washington on the depth chart, and give that the Gmen carried Washington on the roster last year, and have never done so for Talley, is an indication that Washington is the more talented player.... Yes, backup receivers need to play specials, however I'm not sure the last WR on the bench is even getting a jersey on game days, so that may not matter as much.

I also think you are failing to consider the injury factor. Victor Cruz is out for who knows how long. Parker is the primary backup in the slot. With the injury to Vic, I just don't see anyway you can cut Parker.

As for Berhe. If he can get back on the field in 6 or less weeks, then maybe you keep him over a guy like Darkwa. Right now, Berhe is injured. Darkwa is not. There for Darkwa is the better talent for our team this year.

Finally, with regard to McClain, I think you are again failing to consider the current and historic injuries of Beason. Who is Beason's backup if we cut McClain? Unga, or Kennard out of position???