GIANTS ROSTER MOVES
OL Will Beatty Reserve/PUP
DB Josh Gordy Reserve/Injured
DB Bennett Jackson Reserve/Injured
OL Brandon Mosley Waived/injured
RB Akeem Hunt Waived/injured
OL Michael Bamiro Waived
WR Juron Criner Waived
FB Justin Halley Waived
OL Eric Herman Waived
OL Derrick Johnson Waived
P Robert Malone Waived
DE Jordan Stanton Waived
DT Jummy Staten Waived
TE Will Tye Waived
Mosely? Finally..
Just that he didn't get 1 more game. Hopefully Practice Squad
Yeah, but the problem as I understand it, is that you can't put a player on short term IR unless they're first on the 53. That means he'd have to be on the roster at the expense of somebody else. I guess you can do it if the person he's bumping is someone you don't care about losing. But it still seems like a risk.
Waiting on more medical info.
There's been mixed messages about how long term the injury is going to be now that they've removed the clot. Not a Doctor, but I'd have thought if he's on blood thinners then he'd not be able to play even if the calf is better.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 1m1 minute ago
Giants down to 74 players on the roster. They could add someone, but at this point, unless that player is going to stick on 53, no reason.
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Nat Berhe still alive.
Yeah, but the problem as I understand it, is that you can't put a player on short term IR unless they're first on the 53. That means he'd have to be on the roster at the expense of somebody else. I guess you can do it if the person he's bumping is someone you don't care about losing. But it still seems like a risk.
He may only have a 4 week recovery time. He might be worth keeping on the inactive roster. Right now, nobody has heard a prognosis
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That's 14 out of the 15 moves needed.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 1m1 minute ago
Giants down to 74 players on the roster. They could add someone, but at this point, unless that player is going to stick on 53, no reason.
Gotcha. I'm bad at math, but all day the media has said we needed 15 roster moves to get from 90 to 75; 14 moves seems to take us to 76, not 74. I'm sure it has something to do with a couple of these injured guys not having counted against the 90 in the first place or something.
The O-line with Beatty looked like it had the chance to be a real strength. Now?
We needed JPP, where are our playmakers?
Looking at the roster depresses me. It goes without saying I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see it this year. I don't see any scenario where this roster is talented enough to ride the magic wave late a la 07, 11.
QB: Eli, Nassib, Stanzi (3)
RB: Jennings, A. Williams, Vereen, Darkwa, K. Harper (5)
FB: Hynoski, Whitlock (2)
WR: Odell, Cruz, G. Davis, D. Harris, J. Jones, P. Parker, Randle, Talley, C. Washington (9)
TE: Fells, Donnell, Cunningham, A. Robinson (4)
OL: Flowers, Pugh, Richburg, Schwartz, Newhouse, Jerry, Hart, B. Jones, Gettis, Reynolds, Cleary, Donnelly (12)
DEFENSE (36)
DT: Hankins, Bromley, Kuhn, D. Hamilton, Jenkins, Ellis (6)
DE: Ayers, Bars, D. Moore, O2, Selvie, Wynn (6)
LB: Beason, Kennard, JT Thomas, Casillas, Farrand, Herzlich, McClain, Unga, Palmer (9)
CB: Prince, DRC, C. Brown, Fenner, M. Harris, Hosley, McBride, Wade (8)
S: Collins, S. Brown, Berhe, Meriweather, Miles, C. Taylor, Conway (7)
SPECIALISTS (3)
P: Weatherford
K: J. Brown
LS: DeOssie
Best guess as to cuts to get down to the 53:
Stanzi, K. Harper, Whitlock, Talley, C. Washington, A. Robinson, B. Jones, Cleary, Donnelly, D. Hamilton, Bars, Farrand, Palmer, M. Harris, Hosley, Fenner, Miles, Conway, Herzlich, hopefully Kuhn
Berhe to IR
Since Reese took the GM job drafting lineman in the later rounds has been nothing short of a train wreck.
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In comment 12447424 FranknWeezer said:
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That's 14 out of the 15 moves needed.
Art Stapleton @art_stapleton 1m1 minute ago
Giants down to 74 players on the roster. They could add someone, but at this point, unless that player is going to stick on 53, no reason.
Gotcha. I'm bad at math, but all day the media has said we needed 15 roster moves to get from 90 to 75; 14 moves seems to take us to 76, not 74. I'm sure it has something to do with a couple of these injured guys not having counted against the 90 in the first place or something.
Here's the rest of the story from RV:
Also, rookie S Mykkele Thompson, who was already placed on IR, now doesn't count against the 75-man roster limit.
how bad are they as players that neither could out play Jerry or Newhouse !
Perhaps it's because Robinson has been around so long, there's a comfort level; but that doesn't really explain it either because everyone is in year 2 of McAdoo. To me, Robinson kind of drifts around the field, looks as though he gets in the way of defenders and goes through the motion of squaring to block or push his man to the outside/inside--to me--zero intensity or explosion. I didn't see Saturday night; evidently he caught a few short passes. Maybe it's more of the Brewer four year rule.
Newhouse and or Jerry? Sure, but to make it like they are doing a terrible job isnt so
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yikes.
how bad are they as players that neither could out play Jerry or Newhouse !
I know, right!?
The only players remaining from the 2010-2012 draft classes?
- JPP*
- Amukamara
- Randle
- Hosley
- Robinson
- Kuhn
* not under contract
Giants Daily @NYGDaily 8m8 minutes ago
Out of the 21 picks from the 2010-2012 draft classes -- six are on the roster today and one is in South Florida "rehabbing". Yikes.
Mike Daniels (#132) was a good pick, but the Giants probably weren't in the market for a 3-4 DE.
Surprised Hunt was that injured he was waived. I think if the DB's were healthier they would have kept him around longer. Surprised about that.
One more item: DE Jason Pierre-Paul goes on reserve/franchise player list. He does not count against roster limit.
- but he plays position of need for NYG
He always gets lucky in my opinion
A 4th round and 7th round pick? What exactly are you all expecting from mid-round picks? Do you know how many of them actually stick after 3 years? There is no shortage of 1st round picks that bust. Moseley played well when given a chance but he is hurt too often. This is a "disaster?"
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yikes.
A 4th round and 7th round pick? What exactly are you all expecting from mid-round picks? Do you know how many of them actually stick after 3 years? There is no shortage of 1st round picks that bust. Moseley played well when given a chance but he is hurt too often. This is a "disaster?"
Don't you know that almost every other GM in the league regularly get Pro Bowlers with their 4th and 7th round picks. Geesh.
BBB - Interesting thought but then I think Robinson will probably get beat out by Fells. I just don't see where he shown enough. We know Fells will at least contribute.
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In comment 12447471 Andy in Boston said:
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yikes.
A 4th round and 7th round pick? What exactly are you all expecting from mid-round picks? Do you know how many of them actually stick after 3 years? There is no shortage of 1st round picks that bust. Moseley played well when given a chance but he is hurt too often. This is a "disaster?"
Don't you know that almost every other GM in the league regularly get Pro Bowlers with their 4th and 7th round picks. Geesh.
No one says you have to hit on every mid round-pick but you have to hit on some or you have a talent depleted roster like we have with no depth. Reese's track record in the middle rounds is abysmal. You can't deny it. The proof is on the field. You can point to the poor choices of other GMs as some kind of excuse but you don't pay your FO to be mediocre you pay them to win.
Losing Gordy and Jackson are big hits. It's going to be tough to matchup with PHi without these 2.
Unless the Giants have a late change of heart, he's starting against Dallas.
got it ...thanks.
Didn't Patterson start all preseason last year?
I can't believe peopl think they don't see it. They do. He's struggling to simply make the roster. No shot of starting.
Q: What have you seen from Markus Kuhn so far in these first two preseason games? Weve seen him with the first team almost all summer. What has he done to earn that trust in you guys?
A: Well, hes a big, strong guy. Weve talked an awful lot about stopping the run, and he can hold the point in there, which hes done over and over. Hes very smart, and so we look at him as a guy that can anchor down in there and can knock back off the ball. And hes pretty much done that.
Last year Washington disappeared during the regular season & this year the explosive Hunt suddenly develops a hamstring. It seems to me that Cruz came down with the same condition his 1st year & was stashed away on IR. Perhaps the malady is catching, but I suspect that what Hunt suffers from is mostly Parkeritis. Let us hope that he falls under the radar of the other clubs, but with a better than 30 yds/kick return average this preseason, he was not exactly invisible.
Perhaps it's because Robinson has been around so long, there's a comfort level; but that doesn't really explain it either because everyone is in year 2 of McAdoo. To me, Robinson kind of drifts around the field, looks as though he gets in the way of defenders and goes through the motion of squaring to block or push his man to the outside/inside--to me--zero intensity or explosion. I didn't see Saturday night; evidently he caught a few short passes. Maybe it's more of the Brewer four year rule.
I loved your" Brewer 4 year rule." Let's see how it works out with Hosley & Robinson.
It is amazing how things change. Last season, nobody would have said that Beatty was a huge asset to the Giants. Also, so many negative comments about JPP's play last season. Fast forward to your comments and one would think we were talking about two players who are absolutely dominant.
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Giants Daily @NYGDaily 4m4 minutes ago
The only players remaining from the 2010-2012 draft classes?
- JPP*
- Amukamara
- Randle
- Hosley
- Robinson
- Kuhn
* not under contract
I don't know what's worse...that these are the only remaining players from those draft classes, or that these are the remaining players from those draft classes.
...fuck, I just don't know.
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yikes.
A 4th round and 7th round pick? What exactly are you all expecting from mid-round picks? Do you know how many of them actually stick after 3 years? There is no shortage of 1st round picks that bust. Moseley played well when given a chance but he is hurt too often. This is a "disaster?"
Herman was a seventh round work-in-progress. He was a good developmental pick, as he is capable of flattening anyone he gets his hands on. Problem always has been is that he moves like the Titanic, and anybody faster than my mother is by him before he has taken his first move.
Marty....you don't fire a guy in 2016!for what happened in 2010-2012. For one, there was one Super Bowl win during that time but more importantly the front office has done a very good job with player additions in 2014 and 2015.
Don't believe me that Reese is below-average in drafting players? The April 25, 2015 edition of the New York Post reviewed the drafting record of each team for the 2010 thru 2014 Drafts.
The result was that Reese's drafts wound up 23 out of 32 teams So, not only below-average but almost in the bottom third of all 32 teams.
Mara just may be HORRIBLE at evaluating talent, and isnt going anywhere...
So in other words, if we went 16-0 you think it should be his last year?
This place just lays the stupid on this time of year.
Oh bullshit. Most of the people here were ecstatic with that pick. Guy was a beast the year before he got suspended.
So I'd propose a wager, not a big one, but how about this. First defensive snap of the game on Sunday night against the boys if kuhn is in there you donate 10 dollars to eric, if he isn't I'll donate the ten. Fair?
In the end BBI is a big winner but I think your hope for SOME kind of rationale for the discrepancy between what we see as fans and what the coaching staff believes is clouding your judgment. There isn't a conspiracy at play, the guy who has run with the ones all training camp and who has started every preseason game is gonna start. Our only hope is that the media picks it up and makes it impossible for him to last more than 2 games in there.
Don't believe me that Reese is below-average in drafting players? The April 25, 2015 edition of the New York Post reviewed the drafting record of each team for the 2010 thru 2014 Drafts.
The result was that Reese's drafts wound up 23 out of 32 teams So, not only below-average but almost in the bottom third of all 32 teams.
Link to story.
Not impressed by the Post's statistical method. To call it false precision would put it mildly.
Link - ( New Window )
Will say first that I provided the link so people can decide for themselves.
One example: Linval Joseph was a great pick, but, because he left for a big FA deal, he is no longer on roster and has played many fewer games for the Giants than he would have if re-signed.
"Pro Bowls made" is an "objective" factor but, I would say, somewhat simple-minded.
And while the article lists the supposed ranking factors, the reader is given no indication of how these factors are related and weighed in the analysis. You are taking the rankings on faith, which I'm not prepared to do with any source, let alone the Post.
Before the year starts?
And we are pathetic? Alrighty then.
So, if he is 23rd that would make his drafting about average.
GB also has 8 guys from same years
He has had failures as picks as has every GM, but who has drafted better in the top 2 rounds - that is where you have to be correct. Yes Austin sucked, so did J. Worthy and T. Cody also picked in early 2nd.
I agree with others that Beason was a bad move, but getting on him for some shit is ridiculous, like injuries to 8 Safeties
If you actually go,look at draft history you will see the vast majority of 3-7th rd picks do not get a 2nd contracts and move around
It still amazes me that the coaching staff gets a free pass. 31 other NFL teams can successfully use late rd picks and FA OL except the Giants. Herzlich and Kuhn are a coaching issue, not a GM issue
Thompson has drafted so many defensive players over the years and their defense remains terrible and nothing is said
This is the 3rd year of the complete roster turnover. I would expect improvement again - the talent is better, sans JPP
I cannot prove it at this point but my hunch is that no other GM has the same record, that is, every player drafted inRounds 4 thru 7 from 2008 thru 2011 is out of the League. One of these I'll do the analysis.
This team is in a much better position than it has been over the past 3 years if we just stopped losing players to career-ending situations.
Kenny Phillips should still be here.
Nicks should still be here.
Wilson should still be here.
Snee should still be here.
The team is better and deeper if not for this inexplicable ability to draft talented played and then lose them forever way too soon.
Not sure what they are watching.
This team is in a much better position than it has been over the past 3 years if we just stopped losing players to career-ending situations.
Kenny Phillips should still be here.
Nicks should still be here.
Wilson should still be here.
Snee should still be here.
The team is better and deeper if not for this inexplicable ability to draft talented played and then lose them forever way too soon.
Snee would be entering year 12 but point taken
Can you imagine David Wilson and Beckham together?
Not sure what they are watching.
The games. They're watching the games...and they see Kuhn being driven off the LOS on a consistent basis.
QB: Stanzi
RB: Harper
FB: Whitlock
WR: Talley, Jones
TE: Robinson
OL: Gettis, Jones
DT: Kuhn, Hamilton
DE: Bars
LB: Farrand, Palmer, Herzlich
DB: Fenner, Hosely
S: Miles, Conway
+3
OL: Cleary
DB: Brown
S: Berhe
Have you guys only started watching football?
Not sure what they are watching.
This is a joke right?
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Giants Daily @NYGDaily 4m4 minutes ago
The only players remaining from the 2010-2012 draft classes?
- JPP*
- Amukamara
- Randle
- Hosley
- Robinson
- Kuhn
* not under contract
We have to count Victor Cruz in this group as well...although he was not drafted...Jerry and his staff deserve the credit for an outstanding free agent acquisition
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Giants Daily @NYGDaily 8m8 minutes ago
Out of the 21 picks from the 2010-2012 draft classes -- six are on the roster today and one is in South Florida "rehabbing". Yikes.
Does the pup designation mean Beatty is out for a min of 6 games?
Smells like a pimple on his ass burst....this smells like an IR stash in order not to expose this kid to the league...hopefully he flys under the radar and they put him on IR tomorrow...he is probably the KR/ PR of the future that will come much cheaper then Harris.
QB: Stanzi
RB: Harper
FB: Whitlock
WR: Talley, Jones
TE: Robinson
OL: Gettis, Jones
DT: Kuhn, Hamilton
DE: Bars
LB: Farrand, Palmer, Herzlich
DB: Fenner, Hosely
S: Miles, Conway
+3
OL: Cleary
DB: Brown
S: Berhe
I really think you are WAY off base here. I have no idea of what "depth chart" you were looking at, but I doubt that it is accurate.
One thing people CONSTANTLY forget about is special teams. If you are not a starter, you need to be able to play on the return or coverage teams. Also keep in mind that redundancy will play a role- in other words, if two players have the same strengths at the same positions, one will almost certainly be cut.
Looking at WR alone, it is FAR more likely that Washington and Parker get cut than Talley and Jones. Washington cannot play specials and is no better than a 6th WR. Parker is redundant to Harris- they are both 5th WR types who are better KR- meaning that you keep one and toss the other. Jones is essentially the 4th WR- and could be the 3rd if Cruz can't go. Davis is a big specials guy, even if he is a project at WR.
With the injuries and dings, the Giants will likely IR Behrle, but are not in a position to drop two more S unless they can find an adequate backup guy on the waiver wire (unlikely at this stage).
I think that the more likely RB list of cuts would be Darkwa, Harper and Whitlock. Darkwa is redundant, even if he flashed in the second half last week.
At LB, McClain has to be looking over his shoulder. He doesn't offer anything on specials, and is likely to be overtaken in the starting role by Thomas. If the Giants keep Unga, there is another redundancy- especially since Casillas will be a ST guy.
I think when the Giants put together the 53, McClain and Herzlich could both be done in by the need to overload at DB and the apparent emergence of Unga.
There are so many reasons to believe the arrow is pointing up with this team: recent talent infusion, promising changes at coordinator, long term uncertainty in Philadelphia. But if none of those reasons resonates then there is still this: the NFL is set up for teams to endure short lasting peaks and valleys. Only the forlorn franchises suck for consistently long periods of time.
I really don't get all the consternation this offseason. I think it's been largely positive.
There are so many reasons to believe the arrow is pointing up with this team: recent talent infusion, promising changes at coordinator, long term uncertainty in Philadelphia. But if none of those reasons resonates then there is still this: the NFL is set up for teams to endure short lasting peaks and valleys. Only the forlorn franchises suck for consistently long periods of time.
I really don't get all the consternation this offseason. I think it's been largely positive.
Speaking of must reads(my thoughts on the "3-0" thread), you are always on my list, agreement or no agreement..I agree here..:)
Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't.
Stay tuned.
Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't.
Stay tuned.
Or it could just be a matter of scheme fit
Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't.
Stay tuned.
Honestly, I haven't see any euphoria over the signing..Have I missed something?
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But, he was included in the first cuts of the Texans in favor of back-ups consisting of a rookie 7th pick, 2 rookie UDFAs and a former UDFA in his 2d season.
Brown couldn't beat out those Safety back-ups and we're happy to have him back? Either the Texans cannot evaluate talent in cutting Brown or Reese sees something that the Texans don't.
Stay tuned.
Honestly, I haven't see any euphoria over the signing..Have I missed something?
Big Hyperbole Interactive.
In SB Nation-Big BlueView: REINFORCEMENT has arrived for a safety corps that is besieged by injuries.
In Fox Sports, USA Today and Asbury Park Press: Giants re- signed Brown on Monday in a move to SHORE-UP a position that has been decimated by injuries.
Scout.com: Giants officially signed Stevie Brown to STRENGTHEN their beleaguered secondary.
I capitalized the words above. The capitalized words IMO are very strong words of approval but, unfortunately, are exaggerated and not well-founded. That's why I used the word "euphoria" concerning Brown's signing.
But hey, you can capitalize words with the best of them. Comprehending them - not so much.
What kind of standard are people holding this guy to?
But it would be nice to see that occur with the rose colored subset as often as the skeptical subset, unless you assess the former here to be, in general, more informed and hewing closer to fact-based discussion, or more conservative in their assessments.
For me, does the frustration with recent team performance and 2015 projections of performance lead me to grouse? Yes, no doubt. Is it just temperament? Perhaps. I don't think anyone here wants to see the Giants shit the bed on the field, but when it happens with regularity, as it has in the past three years, one is inclined to look at causes and responsibility. Isn't that the way of teams and businesses in general, in order to improve going forward? One is also inclined to vent to relieve stress, frustration, anger, whatever, as we want the teams we root for to reflect the positives, and when they don't, there's a natural carryover.
Does it not work that way for you? Or, are you the type of person for whom sports entertainment and games can be compartmentalized, and analyzed, apart from the rest of your emotional complex? If so, I guess there's good in that, but may also cap the "euphoria", if I may use that word?
Willis' article today indicates that the Giants are unlikely to make the playoffs this year.
when I read the game threads, I'm amazed at the number of people who actually have an anger impulse, and then mash the keyboard with "I want to fucking kill Fewell" and then think it is perfectly fine to be that way.
I don't even shout that at the TV let alone take the time to type it out.
The offseason is even worse because there is no hair trigger for the outbursts, which means they are actually thought-out moronic statements.
But, as to the questions in my post--you don't rant at the TV when Eli makes one of his boneheads, or a DE, CB, or LB misses a tackle that ought to have been made, or the middle of the field is left wide open for the opposing TE (it used to be Witten, but we can sub just about any of them) on a 3rd and long?
It's hard for me to relate to that restraint.
I get frustrated, but not to the point that I act like Jerry Reese puts his feet up on a desk and throws darts at names to pick, that TC just let's the players have at it, or that Player X is a lazy motherfucker just cashing a check.
There is a difference there.
Oh yeah I'm going to borrow this. It's a perfect description for way too much of my work inbox.
I don't usually venture on game threads except after the fact to take in some of the promised entertainment. I'm rarely disappointed. It's too cumbersome to type out commentary or rants in the heat of action. It would dissipate some of the immediate, full blown satisfaction of emotional fury, heh
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I ran through the list of the 74 remaining, and just lopped off the bottom end of the depth chart for each position. No major losses. For some positions, such as OL and WR it was easy to find more than one player to at the end of the depth chart who clearly was not going to make it. After that there were only three hard choices to make. As in, kids I think have some talent, but there simply is not room for them on the roster. Here goes:
QB: Stanzi
RB: Harper
FB: Whitlock
WR: Talley, Jones
TE: Robinson
OL: Gettis, Jones
DT: Kuhn, Hamilton
DE: Bars
LB: Farrand, Palmer, Herzlich
DB: Fenner, Hosely
S: Miles, Conway
+3
OL: Cleary
DB: Brown
S: Berhe
I really think you are WAY off base here. I have no idea of what "depth chart" you were looking at, but I doubt that it is accurate.
One thing people CONSTANTLY forget about is special teams. If you are not a starter, you need to be able to play on the return or coverage teams. Also keep in mind that redundancy will play a role- in other words, if two players have the same strengths at the same positions, one will almost certainly be cut.
Looking at WR alone, it is FAR more likely that Washington and Parker get cut than Talley and Jones. Washington cannot play specials and is no better than a 6th WR. Parker is redundant to Harris- they are both 5th WR types who are better KR- meaning that you keep one and toss the other. Jones is essentially the 4th WR- and could be the 3rd if Cruz can't go. Davis is a big specials guy, even if he is a project at WR.
With the injuries and dings, the Giants will likely IR Behrle, but are not in a position to drop two more S unless they can find an adequate backup guy on the waiver wire (unlikely at this stage).
I think that the more likely RB list of cuts would be Darkwa, Harper and Whitlock. Darkwa is redundant, even if he flashed in the second half last week.
At LB, McClain has to be looking over his shoulder. He doesn't offer anything on specials, and is likely to be overtaken in the starting role by Thomas. If the Giants keep Unga, there is another redundancy- especially since Casillas will be a ST guy.
I think when the Giants put together the 53, McClain and Herzlich could both be done in by the need to overload at DB and the apparent emergence of Unga.
I do not see how we are that far apart here. Talley vs Washington is not a major fight. I would argue that Talley has never passed Washington on the depth chart, and give that the Gmen carried Washington on the roster last year, and have never done so for Talley, is an indication that Washington is the more talented player.... Yes, backup receivers need to play specials, however I'm not sure the last WR on the bench is even getting a jersey on game days, so that may not matter as much.
I also think you are failing to consider the injury factor. Victor Cruz is out for who knows how long. Parker is the primary backup in the slot. With the injury to Vic, I just don't see anyway you can cut Parker.
As for Berhe. If he can get back on the field in 6 or less weeks, then maybe you keep him over a guy like Darkwa. Right now, Berhe is injured. Darkwa is not. There for Darkwa is the better talent for our team this year.
Finally, with regard to McClain, I think you are again failing to consider the current and historic injuries of Beason. Who is Beason's backup if we cut McClain? Unga, or Kennard out of position???