the off-the-field events that will determine JPP's return to the field in 2015, if at all. In effect, ever since July 4, nothing has happened, and it all begins to play out.
You have a better plan for our defensive line this season?
You have to pay this money to see if he has a future. Actually it's a small price to pay. Bad case he is done and we move on. Worst case he signs with another team comes back with a vengeance. At least me he had sonething to prove so he will be motivated.
is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
For whatever reason BBI does NOT like JPP. Since the accident, all we've heard is how useless he is now, what a malignant jerk he is and how he's not much more than an ordinary player.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
I'm betting he signs the tender, goes right to NFI. I'm doubting he will see any meaningful action again in the league and he will definitely not even be close to the old JPP ever again.
For whatever reason BBI does NOT like JPP. Since the accident, all we've heard is how useless he is now, what a malignant jerk he is and how he's not much more than an ordinary player.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
it wasn't the accident as much as his obfuscation afterwards that pissed people off.
For whatever reason BBI does NOT like JPP. Since the accident, all we've heard is how useless he is now, what a malignant jerk he is and how he's not much more than an ordinary player.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
There was negative talk about him prior to July 4th as well. Not that I agree with it, I like JPP, and am rooting like hell for a nice return.
is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
For whatever reason BBI does NOT like JPP. Since the accident, all we've heard is how useless he is now, what a malignant jerk he is and how he's not much more than an ordinary player.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
it wasn't the accident as much as his obfuscation afterwards that pissed people off.
Something traumatic happened to the young man, I don't think anyone can definitively say how someone would react or not to something like that. How you would and should react are entirely different matters.
is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
Actually, there is nothing that is "spot fucking on" regarding that comment. Nobody said he was going to be a "vegetable". Plenty of people suggested he might not ever play for NYG again, but NO ONE made that kind of comment. Not one.
I'm betting he signs the tender, goes right to NFI. I'm doubting he will see any meaningful action again in the league and he will definitely not even be close to the old JPP ever again.
Good call
No one here has ANY idea the condition of his hand
gets put on NFI, will the money he's not getting paid still get rolled over into next season? Or does the whole cap rollover thing go up in smoke the moment he signs the franchise tender?
is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
Actually, there is nothing that is "spot fucking on" regarding that comment. Nobody said he was going to be a "vegetable". Plenty of people suggested he might not ever play for NYG again, but NO ONE made that kind of comment. Not one.
Do you have to be such an idiot ALL the time?
Somebody in another thread today said he would never play in the NFL again. The 95% number was an (intended) exaggeration. People have been ridiculous about this situation.
You have a better plan for our defensive line this season?
No, it is not my money. But I'm just not in the contingent of fans that don't consider the money side of the game.
When you ask me if I would rather rescind the tag and carry that money into the cap in 2016, I would. Rather than paying him tag money to experiment on whether he can play again. I've never made it a secret that I don't think JPP is a guy you build a franchise around. And I surely don't after this serious injury.
It is just a different perspective. You don't have to agree with it, I'm not asking you to. I just consider the cap in my comments and the going forward organization, not just whether a player is going to be running around this season.
I think the discussions, pro and con have been decent..Many gave their reasons as to why he will or won't play again, or play for this team or not play this season or be somewhere else in '16..The discussion has been surprisingly good, imo
I'm more concerned about what the rest of his hand/thumb is like more than whether he's out a finger..
Eric, I agree that something is going to brew from this situation. I will be shocked if it is JPP shows up, signs his tender and we see how it goes with him as a player. All evidence to this point with him and his agent being 100% quiet is aligned with them hoping that will be the case.
Next week? He has not done enough harm yet? Now the Giants are going to have to cut someone to make room for this piece of....
They better NFI him. I don't care if he is cleared to play. The man has 9 fingers, THAT WE KNOW OF! I don't even want to think about the potential fractional fingers.... What is it? 8 1/2, 1/3, 1/16??! How many fingers do you have man!
Realistically speaking the best we should ever expect from JPP is league average play, at some point years down the line. I would have been ok signing up for that as some sort of reinforcement during the season, after injuries opened up a spot. Not now. Please, please, just go away for a while jason....
The Giants designated Pierre-Paul their franchise player in March, disappointing the young pass rusher who had been seeking a long-term contract. Pierre-Paul has yet to sign his $14.813 million franchise tender and won't sign it until he is sure the Giants won't place him on the non-football injury list.
seems probable, but not sure what his chances of success would be, given that if the giants - who could desperately use Healthy JPP - decide that he won't be ready to play for a while based on their examination of his hand, they have every right to put him on the NFI.
This is where JPP needs to be a man, own his mistake and accept the consequences.
Will not be able to play his position due to his stupid move. He is overweight out of shape and a broken thumb kept together with pins and needles. No way giants coaches allow him to play.
The Giants designated Pierre-Paul their franchise player in March, disappointing the young pass rusher who had been seeking a long-term contract. Pierre-Paul has yet to sign his $14.813 million franchise tender and won't sign it until he is sure the Giants won't place him on the non-football injury list.
Fuck you JPP. http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/13574132/jason-pierre-paul-plans-return-new-york-giants-next-week - ( New Window )
Everyone needs to read the last paragraph about JPPs opinion. This is precisely what you would expect, or at least I did. This has all the makings of him trying to portray he is ready and once the medical comes in, him not being so (he's been invisible all summer with multiple requests to see him). He now wants game checks. I agree with Eric that this is going to become a side show of sorts, one opinion vs the other.
Guys it's not going to make a difference if he has 9 fingers or 3 fingers, is in shape or out of shape.
He played shitty beforehand (pun intended) in a contract year and will be a liability whenever he gets back. He's lazy, undisciplined, immature and squandered all of the potential in the world. There are guys who would kill to have his pre-injury god gifted athleticism and he took it for granted and pissed away millions in the process. He's so stupid that if he busted his ass last year he would have had his guaranteed contract in March, yet he loafed it against all but the crappiest competition and then with the financial well being of 5 generations of his family at his fingertips (again- pun intended) - he let it go all up in smoke for unnecessary reasons. Yeah let's look to this guy to be a cornerstone player for the 2015 Giants. Give me a break.
Not even kidding I would prefer to start Jimmy Staten for 16 games over JPP. JPP brings down others around him and I can't believe so few of you see it. Poor attitude from star players permeates a locker room like a virus. Eli isn't a vocal enough leader to control that type of stuff, and there isn't anyone else on the roster who commands any kind of real respect.
Best case at this point is the Giants start hot and guys like Moore and Wynn go off- making it easy for the Gmen to keep him on NFI all year long. Actually I'm wrong- best case is to just pull the tender and let him sign wherever he wants with his claw ass hand but I understand why the Giants don't want to do that yet.
So as pissed as anyone is that JPP went Tropic Thunder on his own hand- imagine how pissed we will all be if the Giants are playing well to start the year and this ass pimple of a distraction starts chirping how he is ready to play and wants his money. You're looking at lawsuits, grievances and the whole shebang right there.
This is the kind of thing that derails a season, and in a sense it's a shame that the coaching career of one of the top 20 coaches in NFL history could go down in flames in part because of the pyrotechnic habits of a 25 year old chucklehead.
RE: Worst case scenario for the Giants and the fans
Guys it's not going to make a difference if he has 9 fingers or 3 fingers, is in shape or out of shape.
He played shitty beforehand (pun intended) in a contract year and will be a liability whenever he gets back. He's lazy, undisciplined, immature and squandered all of the potential in the world. There are guys who would kill to have his pre-injury god gifted athleticism and he took it for granted and pissed away millions in the process. He's so stupid that if he busted his ass last year he would have had his guaranteed contract in March, yet he loafed it against all but the crappiest competition and then with the financial well being of 5 generations of his family at his fingertips (again- pun intended) - he let it go all up in smoke for unnecessary reasons. Yeah let's look to this guy to be a cornerstone player for the 2015 Giants. Give me a break.
Not even kidding I would prefer to start Jimmy Staten for 16 games over JPP. JPP brings down others around him and I can't believe so few of you see it. Poor attitude from star players permeates a locker room like a virus. Eli isn't a vocal enough leader to control that type of stuff, and there isn't anyone else on the roster who commands any kind of real respect.
Best case at this point is the Giants start hot and guys like Moore and Wynn go off- making it easy for the Gmen to keep him on NFI all year long. Actually I'm wrong- best case is to just pull the tender and let him sign wherever he wants with his claw ass hand but I understand why the Giants don't want to do that yet.
So as pissed as anyone is that JPP went Tropic Thunder on his own hand- imagine how pissed we will all be if the Giants are playing well to start the year and this ass pimple of a distraction starts chirping how he is ready to play and wants his money. You're looking at lawsuits, grievances and the whole shebang right there.
This is the kind of thing that derails a season, and in a sense it's a shame that the coaching career of one of the top 20 coaches in NFL history could go down in flames in part because of the pyrotechnic habits of a 25 year old chucklehead.
The injuries are not as bad as feared and he will be ready to play in a couple of weeks as a situational player...no NFI and a compromise is reached.
His injuries combined with him being out of football shape make it impossible to contribute until Week 7 and he accepts that he won't be paid for six weeks. (NFI)
The Giants think he won't be ready until Week 7 or later and he refuses to accept that. Legal dispute.
the Giants have to determine if they want to spend $15 million on the maimed JPP who missed all of camp and the preseason or dedicate that money instead to next year's cap.
key lines of the ESPN article I repeated in quotes in the BBI update:
However, ESPN.com says, Pierre-Paul wont sign (his Franchise tender) until he is sure the Giants wont place him on the non-football injury list and that he would like to speak to the Giants about guaranteeing the prorated portion of his salary that reflects the number of games he and they expect him to be able to play. Report: Jason Pierre-Paul to Return Next Week - ( New Window )
Eric, judging on schedule, giants could very well be 1 and 6
So if they say the want to put him on NFI what's he going to do. Not sign his tender. That's the same as being on NFI. No signed tender, no pay. NFI, no pay.
I have no idea. I have no idea how his finger (amputated at the knuckle), skin grafts, and fractured thumb affect his ability to workout, practice, accept contact, play off blocks, etc.
Please post a list of every poster who called people idiots for not accepting that his career with the Giants was 100% over.
Hey look man. I was in the same corner with you. The day the news broke I just about, as politely as I knew how, cussed Go Terps out, up, sideways, and inside out for suggesting JPP was done and should be cut. With time, I have now come fully around to nearly agreeing with him. Due to his self inflicted handicap, JPP will never be more than a bottom 10 or so player on a 53 man nfl roster.
Agree a compromise is best. I've been saying that since this started. However, that could have taken place before camp began. That's what I dont get. If he's willing to compromise now why not then. I have a bad feeling the two sides see that world in different lights.
key lines of the ESPN article I repeated in quotes in the BBI update:
However, ESPN.com says, Pierre-Paul wont sign (his Franchise tender) until he is sure the Giants wont place him on the non-football injury list and that he would like to speak to the Giants about guaranteeing the prorated portion of his salary that reflects the number of games he and they expect him to be able to play. Report: Jason Pierre-Paul to Return Next Week - ( New Window )
He sure does have a set on him, blowing his hand up and then demanding guarantees.
Ummmm, Jason? Giants still hold all the cards here, buddy...
If it goes to a third-party, it may be out of the Giants hands (i.e., some third-party doctor says, JPP can play now).
The thing the Giants have to factor in here are not just the injuries, but the fact that he (1) isn't in football shape, and (2) he knows nothing about the defense.
If he had never blown up his hand, he'd be a bit behind the 8-ball already. Now factor in the injuries. But a third-party doctor won't factor in the football shape/ignorance of the new defensive schemes.
If it goes to a third-party, it may be out of the Giants hands (i.e., some third-party doctor says, JPP can play now).
The thing the Giants have to factor in here are not just the injuries, but the fact that he (1) isn't in football shape, and (2) he knows nothing about the defense.
If he had never blown up his hand, he'd be a bit behind the 8-ball already. Now factor in the injuries. But a third-party doctor won't factor in the football shape/ignorance of the new defensive schemes.
Compromise would be best course here.
Eric, very good point. I'd forgotten about the third party Dr angle. Probably the route he'd go. If he looks hard enough he can find a Doctor to say anything. I'm sure the Giants have some good lawyers, but if JPP gets a sympathetic judge who just looks at it from an employer-employee angle then he stands a good chance.
We'll lets hope for compromise, but no way the Giants willing give up 15 mil for a player who can't help them until October (best guess).
If he signs the tender, but gets put on NFI, he gets as many games as he's cleared to play.
That's it. He can't extort anything from them. They're not even going to talk about deals, guarantees, or money until a team doctor looks at his medicals.
The Giants designated Pierre-Paul their franchise player in March, disappointing the young pass rusher who had been seeking a long-term contract. Pierre-Paul has yet to sign his $14.813 million franchise tender and won't sign it until he is sure the Giants won't place him on the non-football injury list.
Fuck you JPP. http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/13574132/jason-pierre-paul-plans-return-new-york-giants-next-week - ( New Window )
reminds me of a law school exam. Only a franchised player who hasn't signed the franchise tender, but has gone beyond the other teams can sign him and pay draft pick compensation period could be in this situation. Everyone else is either under contract or not. If this happened to a regular free agent - say Jake Long (different injury, same scenario) - he would make some "I'm not ready to play but lets stay in touch" type visits. Clubs would all examine him, follow him and then when he is ready to play decide to make an offer. Or if the guy was under contract he would come to camp, get examined, go to meetings and go on the NFI - assuming the team didn't cut him and give him an injury settlement.
But ole JPP is in completely uncharted waters. There is no play book for how to handle this. There are also no public appearances, comments or status reports. Probably on the well meaning advice of his agent. Maybe just maybe it was actually good advice. Maybe had he come in in July, he wouldn't have been able to face the coaches and club officials or even the press.
Most Giants fans have taken one of two positions on this matter - it's either (1) screw him, he's not worth it so cut him now or (2) he is a jerk for not coming to NY, putting himself into the oh so capable hands of the NY Football Giants and their doctors and trainers (the same doctors and trainers that 90% of BBI think must be incompetent) so for that he is a bad man. Very few people on this thread or any other I have seen have thought about the situation from JPPs perspective.
And why should they - this isn't JPPInteractive, it's Big Blue Interactive. We are fans of the Giants and their laundry. We love guys who wear our uniform, who sacrifice themselves for our fandom - "thanks for that Super Bowl Hakeem, but sorry your legs don't work anymore. Get the hell out of here. Playing to get that next contract and not get hurt" You know, we all hope that Victor Cruz comes back, but if not, he'll be thought of as a slacker or a malingerer by many of us - just like Hakeem was in 2013 - people who gladly paid $150 for a #80 or #88 jersey 3 years before.
So from this tried and true Giants fan (since 1968 by the way) - who loves that Big Blue laundry as much as anyone here or anywhere - all I can say is just for a minute or two put yourself in the shoes of this guy who I know you loved as much as anyone you aren't related to in the winter of 2011-12. He is likely a scared young man who never meant anyone any harm. We all thought he was fun loving - he did back flips for crying out loud. He was expecting to be rewarded beyond his and all of our imaginations for playing a game and now he is facing a totally new reality. Just for a minute consider that.
It's amazing that some people think that anything can go to court. There has to be a legal basis. There are clear rules governing franchise tenders, the NFI list, etc. I don't see it, based on my understanding of the rules. Once he signs (which the Giants can't force him to do) the ball is in the Giants court. pay him for the number of weeks remaining in the season or NFI him if he can't play. There could be a dispute about his medical readiness to play, but there are rules around that too. How does it end up in court? Is there something I'm missing?
reminds me of a law school exam. Only a franchised player who hasn't signed the franchise tender, but has gone beyond the other teams can sign him and pay draft pick compensation period could be in this situation. Everyone else is either under contract or not. If this happened to a regular free agent - say Jake Long (different injury, same scenario) - he would make some "I'm not ready to play but lets stay in touch" type visits. Clubs would all examine him, follow him and then when he is ready to play decide to make an offer. Or if the guy was under contract he would come to camp, get examined, go to meetings and go on the NFI - assuming the team didn't cut him and give him an injury settlement.
But ole JPP is in completely uncharted waters. There is no play book for how to handle this. There are also no public appearances, comments or status reports. Probably on the well meaning advice of his agent. Maybe just maybe it was actually good advice. Maybe had he come in in July, he wouldn't have been able to face the coaches and club officials or even the press.
Most Giants fans have taken one of two positions on this matter - it's either (1) screw him, he's not worth it so cut him now or (2) he is a jerk for not coming to NY, putting himself into the oh so capable hands of the NY Football Giants and their doctors and trainers (the same doctors and trainers that 90% of BBI think must be incompetent) so for that he is a bad man. Very few people on this thread or any other I have seen have thought about the situation from JPPs perspective.
And why should they - this isn't JPPInteractive, it's Big Blue Interactive. We are fans of the Giants and their laundry. We love guys who wear our uniform, who sacrifice themselves for our fandom - "thanks for that Super Bowl Hakeem, but sorry your legs don't work anymore. Get the hell out of here. Playing to get that next contract and not get hurt" You know, we all hope that Victor Cruz comes back, but if not, he'll be thought of as a slacker or a malingerer by many of us - just like Hakeem was in 2013 - people who gladly paid $150 for a #80 or #88 jersey 3 years before.
So from this tried and true Giants fan (since 1968 by the way) - who loves that Big Blue laundry as much as anyone here or anywhere - all I can say is just for a minute or two put yourself in the shoes of this guy who I know you loved as much as anyone you aren't related to in the winter of 2011-12. He is likely a scared young man who never meant anyone any harm. We all thought he was fun loving - he did back flips for crying out loud. He was expecting to be rewarded beyond his and all of our imaginations for playing a game and now he is facing a totally new reality. Just for a minute consider that.
JPP had no financial incentive to report to preseason. His only incentive is to come in for his 17 game checks. That's approx. 900 K per week. He reports just at start of season and says I'm ready pay me. It's his only move.
Now it's Giants move. They finally get to examine him and determine if he's ready to play. If he's not they put him on NFI. they save 900K per week which they can use towards next years cap number BTW.
Then it's JPPs move. He either files a grievance (I believe CBA says player can grieve NFI designation) or he accepts NFI and hopes to be ready in the 6-9 week window.
The only alternatives to the above scenario Is that both sides try to negotiate a deal for some portion of contract guarantee. But Giants would never do that until they have a full medical exam.
don't see him winning a lawsuit or arbitration against the Giants for putting him on the NFI. He had a finger amputated, badly fractured his thumb, and had skin grafts. He also missed all of training camp. I'd frankly be surprised if he plays at all this year.
is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
We Giants fans want the players to be willing to pay to wear the blue (more or less literally, as in, give the Giants a home team discount worth millions); to be humble and gracious at all times; to sign autographs and pose for photos whenever and wherever asked; and to never have a single dispute with the team about anything, ever.
Meanwhile we also want to post on BBI about how to get a raise or get a better job; mock other posters; proclaim everybody who doesn't agree with us to be idiots; and argue with the mods over bannings, etc.
Some of you will say I'm full of shit, but you're idiots.
Compensatory Draft Picks: In addition to the 32 picks in each round of the NFL Draft, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as compensatory picks, are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the players salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.
Compensatory Draft Picks: In addition to the 32 picks in each round of the NFL Draft, there are a total of 32 picks awarded at the ends of Rounds 3 through 7. These picks, known as compensatory picks, are awarded to teams that have lost more qualifying free agents than they gained the previous year in free agency. Teams that gain and lose the same number of players but lose higher-valued players than they gain also can be awarded a pick, but only in the seventh round, after the other compensatory picks. Compensatory picks cannot be traded, and the placement of the picks is determined by a proprietary formula based on the players salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. Compensatory picks are awarded each year at the NFL annual meeting which is held at the end of March; typically, about three or four weeks before the draft.
And folks here are acting like this is good news and he will be ready to help the Giants soon. LOL
I'll stick with my November prediction.
I don't think the Giants are going to cut him a huge amount of slack if his hand or thumb or skin grafts are going to keep him off the field for weeks. However, after they examine him, if they're satisfied that he's not "trying to steal" from them, they may well negotiate some arrangement so he gets some of the money for the weeks he missed -- not as much as if he had been under contract and suffered a football injury, but more than the zero he'd get under NFI.
But I am not, and as a fan, I want our best player on defense out there. How well can he play with the hand? I have no idea, and neither does anyone else. All I know is if this guy can manage to adjust, we are a hell of a lot better with him than without. What do we have to lose? Salary cap? I'm not worried about the cap, I'm worried about lack of talent and this is one of the few real potential difference makers we have. OO on one side, JPP on the other, Moore coming off the bench on 3rd's as a pass rusher, yeah, there is potential there. Are we safter saving some cap space and going with guys like Ayers? Sure, but we aren't winning superbowls that way, that's for sure. What are we going to do with the $$? There is no talent on this team worth breaking the bank over. If you have as little talent as we do and don't have the cap space to extend a guy like Prince, then our problems are so big it doesn't matter one way or the other. Again, I'm speaking here as a fan, not a GM, but give me some potential to look forward to.
Some of the posters are jumping to conclusions. And that's being friendly.
JPP didn't blow your finger off he blew his own off. I know it's hard to fathom but he doesn't owe us anything right now. He's not even signed to a contract yet.
And if you think most players wouldn't handle this the same way JPP has, and he has handled it somewhat poorly, you're fooling yourself.
We are talking about millions upon millions of dollars at stake. Save me the self righteous crap from some of you. The guy may never earn another dollar in his chosen profession of course he's paranoid. He hasn't fuct the Giants as much as some of you think. He's not under contract. It's as simple as that.
to spend next offseason if he's put on NFI? So if the cap is 143 million, it'll be like they have 148-158 million to spend? I don't know if that's how it works but if it is... bye, JPP.
He's gonna show up and regardless of the condition of his hand, he's gonna be out of game shape and quickly hurt some other part of his body that will keep him out or put him on IR.
Some of the posters are jumping to conclusions. And that's being friendly.
JPP didn't blow your finger off he blew his own off. I know it's hard to fathom but he doesn't owe us anything right now. He's not even signed to a contract yet.
And if you think most players wouldn't handle this the same way JPP has, and he has handled it somewhat poorly, you're fooling yourself.
We are talking about millions upon millions of dollars at stake. Save me the self righteous crap from some of you. The guy may never earn another dollar in his chosen profession of course he's paranoid. He hasn't fuct the Giants as much as some of you think. He's not under contract. It's as simple as that.
Come in, take physical, negotiate a guarantee, that does piss me off. He could have done that long ago, and learned the defense. This asinine game he and his attorneys played has screwed the Giants out of him learning the defense. I know he is not the one making the decisions here. I do think basically he is a good kid. But he is responsible for everything his agents do. I'm not getting into a debate again with people here about his intellect. For arguments sake, he is Stephen Hawking, but he is responsible for all this shit. I don't want the Giants to guarantee a fucking thing. He goes on NFI, and when WE think he is ready, he plays. Asshole wants to go to court, fine with me. The Giants have the winning hand this time. I want that cap space. That is the trade off for what his actions have done to this team.
will be a complete non-factor this year. He may play,but he will bring nothing of value to our defense. Out of shape and physically damaged does not add up to playmaker.
This is exactly what he would have done whether or not
I'm supposed to have sympathy NOW for the guy who after acting like a 14 year old by hand lighting dynamite refused to allow the Giants reps to even VISIT him in Florida not even talking about EXAMINING him.
Now that he stands to lose the weekly tag money he wants to be Johnny Giant?
He and his agent fucked this up so bad even the agents career is going to end after this. The move was for JPP to put his tail between his legs and get his ass up to NY. This would have accomplished all of his goals but he's so retarded he didn't think it through.
1) he would have availed himself to the Giants brass who could have immediately began to negotiate some kind of workable arrangement for both sides
2) he would have instantly won the court of public opinion and could have easily played the "I'm now a mature pro now" card to rebuild his image
3) If the absolute worst case scenario of the Giants removing the tag came true he could have signed with anyone after meeting with their medical staff OR taken the season to heal/rehab and become the most in demand free agent DE next year.
Instead he and his advisors developed a half asset hair brained scheme to try to force the Gia ts to pay his salary or at least part of it.
I don't care if he's paranoid or anxious about it. HE FUCKED HIMSELF and has nobody to blame. The injury was one thing but his reaction has really done the long term damage. I'd sue my reps if I was him to be honest. Talk about bad advice.
Everyone seems to say it's pretty cerebral, including Beason.
Coach Nunn talked about how important it was for JPP to be in camp from a mental standpoint well before the injury occurred.
This would have been the mature thing to do. I'm sure he could have said. "Look I'll sit in the classroom, but my hand is staying wrapped until I'm ready."
Poor class from a guy that Giants gambled on in the 1st round and paid out on a five-year, $20.05 million deal with $11.629 million guaranteed. He earned that contract and then some, but show some smarts and class.
This is an adversarial situation with millions at stake. If he had walked in after the accident, the house docs would have done the owner's bidding and at best it's NFI and 5.5 million in the owner's pocket and the worst is the tender is pulled and meaningless FA after ownership poisons the well with the house doctor's report.
He's coming in with a Dr report saying he can play and if he gets the NFI, a fighting chance in an arbitration of getting the 5.5 million - and no talk of pulling the tender. With Dr report in hand, FA is too risky for the team.
Why do you people think Big Jawn was yapping to the press a few weeks ago ?
Everyone seems to say it's pretty cerebral, including Beason.
Coach Nunn talked about how important it was for JPP to be in camp from a mental standpoint well before the injury occurred.
if it was that vital, it was a simple matter to say "sign your tender and forget the NFI" Apparently its not vital enough for management to fork over the 5.5 million.
Writes with an easy eloquence and great compassion. I feel absolutely non of the compassion, not for JPP or any of them for that matter.
They are so exquisetely lucky and spoiled. They have been a marvelous gift and this kid is allready a millionaire and made a millionaire by a system and team that he now wants to cheat. And isn't that exactly what's going on.? Due to HIS foolishness he compromised his talent but he wants to get paid as if it didn't happen. The case is made more stark because HE did it to himself, it's not even as if he sustained a car accident where he didn't contribute to his plight.
This strange world where we pay 21 year old millions to play a game..where they retire at 30 with millions, where they never really work a job as I define it, where college is free, where most women are too and now he's still only in his twenties, he's made millions, he's acted relentlessly foolish and I who've worked my whole life am supposed to feel sorry for him...Oh my he might have to actually work at a real job. Do you realize that's not even in the equation.
I think the Plax shooting hurt the team with his loss but also with the distraction.
I want this guy cut. I want the distraction gone and I want the cap space. And there's a logic that's come in with the union and the cap. You can actually afford to lose your stars because of the cap space you gain.
The milk of my kindness is curdled. Screw the young man, he's still got overall health, I hope he actually has to go out and get a job....but that's not going to happen.
Writes with an easy eloquence and great compassion. I feel absolutely non of the compassion, not for JPP or any of them for that matter.
They are so exquisetely lucky and spoiled. They have been a marvelous gift and this kid is allready a millionaire and made a millionaire by a system and team that he now wants to cheat. And isn't that exactly what's going on.? Due to HIS foolishness he compromised his talent but he wants to get paid as if it didn't happen. The case is made more stark because HE did it to himself, it's not even as if he sustained a car accident where he didn't contribute to his plight.
This strange world where we pay 21 year old millions to play a game..where they retire at 30 with millions, where they never really work a job as I define it, where college is free, where most women are too and now he's still only in his twenties, he's made millions, he's acted relentlessly foolish and I who've worked my whole life am supposed to feel sorry for him...Oh my he might have to actually work at a real job. Do you realize that's not even in the equation.
I think the Plax shooting hurt the team with his loss but also with the distraction.
I want this guy cut. I want the distraction gone and I want the cap space. And there's a logic that's come in with the union and the cap. You can actually afford to lose your stars because of the cap space you gain.
The milk of my kindness is curdled. Screw the young man, he's still got overall health, I hope he actually has to go out and get a job....but that's not going to happen.
Cheat? How the fuck is showing up and hoping to get paid, cheating?
I understand your resentment of millionaire entitled athletes, but it's your very interest in them that makes it so. JPP has done nothing wrong, but if you look closely enough you may just discover that you are a hypocrite.
Our society supports millionaire entitled athletes. JPP is a part of this class. He's not cheating. He's doing what anybody in his situation would do including just about every freaking one of the New York Football Giants.
He wants to be able to play and they want him to be able to play. What he's been protecting against, in his mind, is a rash decision by the Giants that would cost him six weeks of pay. He evidently feels that he's able to return to work now, and that he'll be able to play in the first few weeks.
Bottom line: if he's able to practice now and is going to be able to play in week 3 or 4, the Giants will be happy to have him, and will pay him. I doubt that they will risk alienating perhaps their best player by fighting over money (albeit a lot) that they don't need.
Including Homer Jones have a great point...from the players perspective. The problem is most of us are Giants fans and as such we care about the well being of the franchise with the individual being secondary.
Someone made the argument that we would be better off in the long term saying goodbye to JPP and having the cap space going forward as well as getting rid of a distraction. I am in that club
a whole lot of glass half empty folk here. the article said he was coming to NY to let the Giants evaluate the hand, and then they would go from there. It's what everyone wanted. now they're apparently getting it.
everyone is so sure he's going on NFI if he signs the tender. He's NOT signing the tender if the Giants have a legitimate case to put him on NFI. My opinion is, and always has been, that he's going to sign when he's close to being ready. If it's obvious that he's not going to be ready til week 7, there's no way he's going to sign now and go to NFI. He'll wait til week 5. Giants would be stupid to put him on NFI and lose 4 games he's capable of playing in. He apparently thinks he can play in a few weeks, albeit with a cast on. Hence he's showing up now, hoping the Giants will carry him for a couple of weeks. It's a very prudent move. Giants get to prep him for learning the system and control the rehab. JPP gets paid. There's options for compromising and paying him some, but not all, for a couple of weeks. everyone saves face.
typical contract negotiation. Of course he wants to maximize his dollars. the majority of the human race wants the same thing. very few people in a position of being able to negotiate a salary don't do the exact same thing. What's unknown is how much he'll dig in his heels (aka, being a dick). he's going to dig in some, and he should, but it's not automatic that he's an absolute asshole. let's wait for it to play out, first.
the cast. it's not uncommon for players to play with a cast on. absolutely, it diminishes playing capability. but, IF JPP had signed, come to work, tripped and broke a finger, would we rather he sat out completely, or play with a cast on? It's complicated by a couple months of not being able to work the upper body (at least one side). It does muddy the waters legally, because there is precedent of players playing with a cast.
Utmost: it's a GOOD thing that the Giants get to officially examine his condition. I don't buy that the team doesn't know his overall condition, but now they get to lay eyes on him and get down to the nitty gritty.
sans him signing a long term deal at the last minute back in July (no fireworks incident), I firmly believe he was holding out all camp anyway, so the whole 'he doesn't know the playbook' thing is moot. he wasn't going to know it anyway, and we'd just be bitching about him for a different reason.
for him to have even a glimmer of hope to win in court (if it comes to that), he has to show that he can workout, so this is a good sign that he thinks he's at least to that point.
So I have some suspicions on what the agent is thinking. Remember - their job is to advocate for JPP as if he's still the stud he was as a rookie. But the reality is no one - even JPP - knows how this affects his play. This could be his - and their - last chance for a big payday so they are treading very carefully, as they should.
That said, after a skin graft, the skin looks horrible. It is dead at the surface with no blood flow, and turns grey/black. There is lots of swelling and stitches. It freaked me out at first but the surgeon said it was normal. I think there is NO WAY IN HELL THEY LET THE GIANTS SEE THAT MANGLED MESS.
After 4-6 weeks after stitches are out the dead layers come off and it looks raw and pink. There is scar tissue to break up by flexing to get range of motion back. I think the agent's play here was to get the hand as healed as possible before payday arrived and they had to come in. What the Giants will see now will look a lot better than it did afterward.
So I have some suspicions on what the agent is thinking. Remember - their job is to advocate for JPP as if he's still the stud he was as a rookie. But the reality is no one - even JPP - knows how this affects his play. This could be his - and their - last chance for a big payday so they are treading very carefully, as they should.
That said, after a skin graft, the skin looks horrible. It is dead at the surface with no blood flow, and turns grey/black. There is lots of swelling and stitches. It freaked me out at first but the surgeon said it was normal. I think there is NO WAY IN HELL THEY LET THE GIANTS SEE THAT MANGLED MESS.
After 4-6 weeks after stitches are out the dead layers come off and it looks raw and pink. There is scar tissue to break up by flexing to get range of motion back. I think the agent's play here was to get the hand as healed as possible before payday arrived and they had to come in. What the Giants will see now will look a lot better than it did afterward.
I also think they may have written off weeks 1-6 long ago. They are saying no NFI as a stalling technique and advocacy position, but I think it's been play book be damned, let's get maximally healed before anyone sees this mess. This web image gives an idea, but this is already on the way to healing - ( New Window )
I had one too on a ring finger and you described it perfectly. All that graft does is protect the open wound until the skin underneath grows over the wound and then it falls off. Yep pink, raw, thin and iirc (30 years ago) pretty sensitive to begin with.
The employee is going to want to protect himself, the employer is going to want to protect themselves.
If anyone, JPP included, think they are going to come in and play week one..well that is just crazy.
JPP, from what I can tell seems to feel the same way, but wants to get paid for at least part of those game day checks.
If he was forthright and let the Giants take a look, I imagine they'd take care of him...I mean look at Chad Jones. He was a draft pick who was injured and everyone knew the chances of him ever playing were slim to none and the Giants took care of him for what 2-3 years?
If JPP wants the full 14+ mil, I don't give it to him. He is not in football shape, he doesn't know the D and, in my opinion, got some bad advice. Granted the Giants were not his employer, but in all reality they were the only employer he can talk too -- so in reality, they were.
As far as "he is a veteren, how hard can it be?" Didn't it take Strahan and co a full offseason, preseaon and like 6 games to figure it out?
this is more than JPP feeling ready. This is more like peeking into his bank accounts and realizing he's getting low. It takes money to finance stupid.
No way in hell should he get the full 15 million. This team is a 4-6 win team with JPP. They can use the money towards next season. He's not going to be here in 2016 anyway.
Hopefully someone will be there to push the elevator button for him.
This is an adversarial situation with millions at stake. If he had walked in after the accident, the house docs would have done the owner's bidding and at best it's NFI and 5.5 million in the owner's pocket and the worst is the tender is pulled ...
[Now] He's coming in with a Dr report saying he can play and if he gets the NFI, a fighting chance in an arbitration of getting the 5.5 million - and no talk of pulling the tender. With Dr report in hand, FA is too risky for the team.
Except I think HJ's 1st and 2nd paras contradict one another in the sense that they describe the same tension, the same outcome: standoff leading to arbitration vs. negotiation, the only difference is the timing.
Unless team and agent agree next week, an unlikely outcome, this will be similar to a battle of expert witnesses (think of "My Cousin Vinnie" for the humorous side). Agent's medical expert vs. Giants' experts from HSS and some prestigious teaching med school. The fault line is the bio-mechanical conclusions to be drawn from the state of JPP's right hand after examination.
But, unlike, say, an MCL or ACL, or achilles, where the degree of instability and susceptibility to further injury is measurable, now the docs, from multiple medical disciplines, will battle it out as to whether, between loss of the digit, stability of the hardware in the thumb, and skin grafts, the player can function at approximately his former skill level, or at an NFL level at all. For this question, it may be that one expert's view is as valid as another's because there is so little precedent, so little prior experience.
It will all be about the timing, whether there is consensus about physical ability at the end of that timing, and the parties true intentions, whether they want reach agreement somewhere in the reasonable middle of a very murky puzzle.
The question of JPP's physical conditioning--his ability to work out in the weight room--is relevant but ancillary, again more a question of timing.
Make a deal. If was was under contracthe would have faced a certain number of fines for shipping camp. That totals x? Offer him 5.5 - x, so in theory he gets treated like anyone else on the team, with restoration of his game check as soon as he's cleared to play.
Sounds pretty motivating.
The Giants owe him ZERO. Even if he was under contract. It's a
jpp has handled this situation well on his end. the giants can play mr. nice guy all they want, showing them his hand could've costed him $15m.
his only chance was to create this mystery and ambiguity to string the Giants out and make the hand look as good as possible before reporting. specialists, plastic surgeons, you name it. also to learn how to use it, hit the weight room and get into a better mental state. w/that much $$$ at stake everything's evaluated
think JPP the business handled this beautifully and bought him time he hopefully could use to his advantage
our fans - the majority of them - are acting vindictively, like jilted beotches
JPP when healthy was our best defensive player on the field - if there is anything that he can do to help the Giants -- I am all for it -- and It's quite possible that he and his agent and the Giants are all motivated to do a deal
It takes a lot to push Jerry Reese over the edge-- he proved that with Shockey, Osi, and Strahan -- he has the right mentality to evaluate a beneficial path for the team and make a deal with the JPP camp here -- if the JPP camp wants to go all scorched Earth here, I'm not sure that will benefit them so it's possible they are equally in a negotiating mood. The fact that JPP has agree to go in for a medical evaluation before signing is a very good sign for setting up a negotiation and it also means they agreed to come in on the Giants terms.
Let me add -- I really, really hope and pray that JPP can be a contributor to the Defense this year -- we and his teammates need him if he is able to
with respect, I think that is a somewhat glib conclusion:
- you have multiple injuries to the right hand/arm; PERHAPS one team of docs can agree with the other's that there is adequate healing, each injury in isolation
- how do the respective healing processes of the three separate, serious injuries interplay
- there is no base line for JPP's right hand/arm prior to the injury
- most important, how does his new, limited right hand functionality impact his effectiveness--on this, your opinion is as good as mine, and that's the problem
"played this perfectly", then as fans, we should be pissed as hell.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
"played this perfectly", then as fans, we should be pissed as hell.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
Good post Fats. It's a slippery slope to a scummy team when you start to collect guys like that.
"played this perfectly", then as fans, we should be pissed as hell.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
Fats -- there's only one thing I would point out to you. JPP has a sort of happy go luck attitude that his teammates have expressed fondness for. His negotiating position may not be of his own making -- but from advise he is getting and that includes his family and agent. We don't know what the inside truth is -- he is a very young kid and may be impressionable -- but it's possible that he may still be able to embrace a team concept -- and while I'm not sure that he reined the 100% best advice here -- Strahan and Osi were able to embrace the concept of team even after taking positions detrimental to the team. JPP is the closest thing talent wise to those guys that we have too -- so we really have to hope that all parties can transcend what took place here
the narrative that jpp is some scumbag we shouldn't want anywhere near the team. he was protecting himself with $15m on the line. he also went thru something traumatic.
he's a big kid, very immature but this is not a bad guy
with respect, I think that is a somewhat glib conclusion:
- you have multiple injuries to the right hand/arm; PERHAPS one team of docs can agree with the other's that there is adequate healing, each injury in isolation
- how do the respective healing processes of the three separate, serious injuries interplay
- there is no base line for JPP's right hand/arm prior to the injury
- most important, how does his new, limited right hand functionality impact his effectiveness--on this, your opinion is as good as mine, and that's the problem
I don't think it is glib at all.
the thumb is either healed or it is still broken.
strength can be measured against his left hand - they don't need a baseline for the right. how strong his hand is, is measureable - I'm sure of that.
the functionality of the new hand can only be seen when he gets back on the practice field.
I think you are correct about the interaction of each individual injury and just they respond to exertion, but over thinking how the Giants move forward from this. If each part is healed, then they can move to the next phase which is getting him on to the field.
"played this perfectly", then as fans, we should be pissed as hell.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
Exactly. Great post. We are FANS. New York Giants fans. We root for the laundry. This entire scenario has hurt our team and its chances to compete. Period. How people on this side of the fence can say that JPP has handled this beautifully is mind boggling. He blew up his own hand and has acted like the victim the entire time. All the meanwhile, our favorite team has to sit on the money they could be using to help it, while its formerly best player sits at home mending his self inflicted wounds.
is what people might have a problem with. Seeing that JPP is essentially a one-year rental and can't even be on the field for the entire year, then the team is getting sahfted from a value standpoint.
take one for the team BS is for the fans. These guys are businessmen. to take a stand against JPP for that is assinine
We ARE FANS! This guy is hurting our team and you come out with Pom Pom waving bullshit?
As a FAN I resent having you tell me how to feel. I root for the laundry. Doesn't mean I'm not 100% sympathetic to a guy who is playing the game within the rules.
I expect the Giants to do the same and NFI him if, in their judgement, he's not ready to play.
Your a FAN!!! So what what? I'm a FAN too, and I don't think like you do.
(appologies in advance for my mocking tone, but your post pissed me off)
They got way more "value" from JPP than they are likely to give him
I think when JPP decides to show up next week will be very telling. If he really thinks he can contribute, then he better show up early in the week for game planning.
If he knows he can't and is trying to scoot around the NFI, then he will show up later.
and he doesn't deserve the honor of wearing a NY Giants jersey. If he ever gets on the field in 2015 he will show the world how the damage of his actions and his after the fact handling of this whole affair has seriously degraded his ability to be a productive DE.
Thank God he'll likely be gone in 2016. I hate wasting a roster spot on somebody that doesn't put the Game and the Team as their highest priorities. What a waste of talent. If he had put his mind into being the best he can be, he could have been one of the best DEs in the game.
And does JPP figure in the Giant's plans for next year?
Let's face it, the front office/coaching staff, is under a lot of pressure to have a winning season...desperate enough to over pay for a guy, who is a huge question mark?
Sorry, but I disagree. And I think he's getting horrible advice from his agent.
The best way he could have helped himself was at least learning the defense in the classroom/sidelines. Now he's got to overcome that hurdle too.
This is spot on. The one thing that is certain is if JPP wants anywhere enar the $$$ he's looking for, he has to prove it on the field. If his camps goal was to get the team to release him so he could hit the FA market, what good would that do? Sure, someone would sign him, but how much would any team commit without seeing how he can actually play? Even with a physical.
He's set to make a good chunk of cash this season, but what he really wants is that big long term contract and the only way that is happening is if he plays this year and plays well. The only way that happens is getting in with the team, learning this defense, and getting himself ready to play football. Avoiding the team has set him BACK in his persuit of a big contract because its delaying the time he can get on the field and perform well.
I am convinced some of this is resentment. He probably feels he should have had his big long term deal already but the team blocked him.
Fats is right.
but, rarely does a player think of team first, paycheck second.
IMO, the reality is that JPP's contribution to the team this year would be the same no matter how he approached it. All that changes is what we'd be bitching about.
and will add a bit more, none of you know what kind of leader this guy is or what kind of influence he has in the locker room. Quotes from players aside, I have seen this defense fall apart ever since Tuck, Joseph, Beason (due to not being on the field) and now Rolle and Kiwi being gone. JPP has not been a leader and his actions this summer show a person who really doesn't make the best decisions or show the kind of maturity you need in a leader.
We fall prey to the 16.5 sacks from a number of years ago but the reality is, the Giants have been afraid to pay him big because they weren't sure what they would get afterward. This isn't LT, who was a demon on the field week in and week out, or Strahan who was a leader (sometimes against the regime, but still a leader in the locker room) or Tuck who lead by example on the field and held people together or Pierce who was the emotional and cerebral leader of MEN (not a bunch of kids needing to be led but MEN who had been around this league)...
Everything about this situation has screamed immature and you can't blame that on youth. You are your choices and your decisions and his are questionable at best.
it really doesn't matter when he becomes effective. All he has to do is show that he's a contributor by week 16 and he'll get paid next year. The team is concerned about when he gets up to speed. For JPP's future bank account, it's irrelevant.
For whatever reason BBI does NOT like JPP. Since the accident, all we've heard is how useless he is now, what a malignant jerk he is and how he's not much more than an ordinary player.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
Spot on. Let's root for this guy. He made a stupid mistake and a childish one but it is just that. I'll be cheering like hell for this guy to get back on the field, Giants uniform or not. I won't forget the 2011 season and we don't win without jpp. He was an absolute monster and probably the best defensive season I've seen from a Giants player in my time watching the sport.
This is an adversarial situation with millions at stake. If he had walked in after the accident, the house docs would have done the owner's bidding and at best it's NFI and 5.5 million in the owner's pocket and the worst is the tender is pulled and meaningless FA after ownership poisons the well with the house doctor's report.
He's coming in with a Dr report saying he can play and if he gets the NFI, a fighting chance in an arbitration of getting the 5.5 million - and no talk of pulling the tender. With Dr report in hand, FA is too risky for the team.
Why do you people think Big Jawn was yapping to the press a few weeks ago ?
There have been some zingers on BBI over the years but this one stands out in particular. This is literally the worst analysis of a negotiation position I've ever read. Seriously, the second dumbest analysis of a contract situation ever presented is a thousand times more intelligent than this.
I'm struggling with whether I should feel disgust or pity that there's some poor guy walking the Earth with a brain like yours.
it really doesn't matter when he becomes effective. All he has to do is show that he's a contributor by week 16 and he'll get paid next year. The team is concerned about when he gets up to speed. For JPP's future bank account, it's irrelevant.
I disagree. If he wants to get paid anywhere near what he is looking for he needs to prove it on the field. He's not getting a huge contract based on a medical and a prayer. And he's not going to just show up at any time and perform. There is a new defense to learn and he has to learn how to play with his injury. The way his camp is playing it is counter to him having a good year, which is counter to his signing a big contract.
is what people might have a problem with. Seeing that JPP is essentially a one-year rental and can't even be on the field for the entire year, then the team is getting sahfted from a value standpoint.
both in present terms and future terms.
Well said. JPP is a major disappointment. He has made millions, even while missing games due to injury. He has performed well at times and not so well other times. The team has always paid him, even when he did not or could not perform. He made a stupid mistake, got some "business advice" presumably from his agent and has played this unfortunate situation out to the best possible business advantage for his future. Good for him. However, this is all about business and there is no evidence of leadership by JPP or even a hint of loyalty. Instead it is simply a guy trying to make as much as he can from a bad situation that he created. Just a business decision.
If there is one team in all of pro football that has shown loyalty to current and former players, even to the detriment of the team's bottom line, it is the Giants. They deserved better from JPP.
for me as a fan, rooting for JPP is akin to being a pledge and bending over and saying "Thank You Sir, may I have another?"
Quote:
Spot on. Let's root for this guy. He made a stupid mistake and a childish one but it is just that. I'll be cheering like hell for this guy to get back on the field, Giants uniform or not. I won't forget the 2011 season and we don't win without jpp.
Plaxico Burress helped us to a Super Bowl and made the game-winning catch. Yet the very next year, he shot himself in the leg, ending his career (not the shot, but the jail pretty much did).
Were people looking forward to welcoming him back? No. Why? Because he took a big shit on the franchise with his careless actions. I don't really see how the JPP situation is that much different. When you make yourself an adversary of the team, on an issue not inflicted by the team, I'll side with the team every time.
Remember that Plax was pissed at the way the Giants treated him too. Were the fans sympathetic? Hell no.
My issue has little to do with his current strategy and a lot more to do with working out on his own all year and never attending any of the team activities since Spags has returned.
He has no idea what Spags offense is all about, and his HC hasn't seen him since the end of the '14 regular season.
I mean, how do you justify that? How do you look your teammates, coaches, GM and owner in the face and say "I want to be a part of this team and help it win" when you've contributed nothing since your new DC and several new teammates have arrived?
The accident and subsequent weeks missed as a result were simply the tipping point.
Forget about his health...assuming he's physically ready, how motivated would you as a DC or HC be to simply insert him into the line-up ahead of a guy whose been busting his ass to learn the defense and participated in all of the team programs?
As a teammate along the DL, how do you really feel?
Yes the guy has immense talent, but we've seen many immensely talented guys flame out over the years. What's the ROI to the team overall?
but Michael Strahan missed all of training camp and the sweating and the practices and learning whatever new plays they were working on and stepped in Game 1 like he was never away. His teammates welcomed him with open arms
He's really not in any position to make demands or requests with regard to NFI, he's almost definitely not healthy enough to play immediately - and it seems to be that given the nature of his injury, the Giants are well within their rights to put him there regardless of when he thinks or says he'll be able to play.
It doesn't seem relevant that JPP believes he can play before Week 7. He's injured now, it was a non-football injury, and his personal prognosis doesn't really mean much.
I still find it amazing the number of people on this board who want him to fail just so they can say so. Rather than have him come back and help the team they root for.
If he comes back and can play and help the team, how is this is bad thing
Even if this guy wasn't short a finger (and who knows what else considering no one knows his injuries beyond the amputation) he'd likely be a shit player anyway.
Mr. Mara if you are reading this I implore you to put this guy in the rearview mirror forever. The long odds of getting anything worthwhile for him are outweighed by the negativity of the situation off the field and more importantly on it if he comes back at all.
Everything since he was franchised has been a mistake. Call it a sunk cost and move on. Please. There are already players on the team and at his position that have busted their asses all summer. They don't deserve to deal with this bullshit, and neither do the fans. It's the only way to ensure no more bad comes from this.
Pull the tender.
RE: Hopefully someone will be there to push the elevator button for him.
But as others said, it's not just the amputated finger/knuckle, but the other fractures and most importantly the skin grafts.
Examine him, and send him packing. Money can be better spent elsewhere.
couldn't agree more!!any money they spend on him is just pissing it away for next year. See ya JPP...remember you said it...this is a business and your ROI is at about zero
my point is that JPP has until week 16 (or beyond if we make it to the playoffs) to show he can produce at a high level. His competency in his first weeks back doesn't mean squat for his next contract.
The Giants want him to produce all year, but JPP only has to show competency at some point this year to prove to the league that he's back.
JPP doesn't have to be effective. All he has to do is be good enough to pass a physical. IF he can (or a court decides he can) pass, he signs and the giants are on the hook.
Dunno how it works if the Giants decide to pull the tender at the same time as JPP signs it, but more or less if JPP signs the tender, the giants are on the hook, and then the only recourse is NFI.
Your main point, as I see it, is that the Giants control his rights in the meantime, so might as well hold on to them.
but it might get tricky if he decides to sign and the Giants don't yank the offer quickly enough.
they can pull it as he walks in the door if they don't feel comfortable with the protection from this clause
Under Article 10, Section 2(c) of the CBA, the contract can be terminated if the player fails to establish or maintain his excellent physical condition.
Any effort to do so would result in a review of the situation by a neutral physician and, eventually and inevitably, arbitration. Still, the franchise tender technically isnt fully and completely guaranteed.
A ten fingered JPP wasn't even good last year. Believe what you want but internally that's part of the Giants brass' discussion.
JTGiants who is connected explained this on a previous thread but it was dismissed by the BBI mob mentality who forms an opinion and holds onto it for dear life, regardless of what they are watching, hearing or seeing.
If you think you are getting a 2011 JPP back even if he magically sprouts a finger, you better stop at Avenue of the America's and grab Strahan and find a time machine to get back 2011 Osi. Best case scenario is you get a maimed version of the 2014 JPP- he'll show up against the crap teams and be on the field when Romo is pitching a tent in the backfield waiting for a WR to open up. That's a BEST case scenario. Does anyone really think he is going to be BETTER than last year with 8 fingers?
It's a business decision why I don't want JPP back, it's not some blind loyalty to a uniform or the team. Newsflash to all of the rah rah JPP guys who will say how wrong I am and how JPP had 1 million tackles blah blah blah look at the facts. JJ Watt doesn't play on the franchise tag, nor do the other top DE's. Before any of this happened JPP was getting a GIFT 2nd prove it year from the team. Rather than see the opportunity in front of him, he decided to nuke his hand off.
RE: One thing to mention for the pro-JPP crowd here..
A ten fingered JPP wasn't even good last year. Believe what you want but internally that's part of the Giants brass' discussion.
So if he wasn't good last year and the Giants brass thought that way, why did they guarantee him $14.4 MM?
Because they were hoping (pre injury) that there was a chance he'd revert back to 2011 JPP. Thinking maybe it was the past two seasons that have been the anomaly. If they thought he was that good last year, based on his past history of success, they'd likely had signed him to a long term deal. I think you have it backwards
I'm not pro JPP returning. At this point, I'm indifferent, I just hope it works out for the Giants but...I just do not understand the notion that JPP wasn't good last year. I wonder sometimes what people are watching.
And yet the 49ers offensive game plan was to run completely away from his side all afternoon. They said as much post game.
WTF are some people talking about!?
Does this defense have one player besides JPP that offensive coordinators really have to account for?
JPP is a VERY good football player and as much as he is an idiot for doing this to himself, the Giants are not a better football team without him no matter how many time Go Terps says so.
I was hoping we'd just let him GO for heaven's sake
But it was his whole demeanor and attitude BEFORE the incident with respect to how the Giants treated him and especially now with the incident that made me sour on the guy.
I still say take that money, base, and pay Eli and Prince big this year so we are totally free for maybe a good haul of much needed blood next year. I'm not big on using free agency to build a team but we'll clearly need at least one safety next off-season (big ticket). :(
I respect your opinion but the game tape shows otherwise. I know it's hard to detach yourself from what we all THOUGHT he could be after 2011 but it never happened. It sucks but it's true.
The reality is that as a whole, he was TARGETED in the run game and controlled in the passing game unless he was facing an inferior opponent. Over and over they ran right at him while he played undisciplined and out of position football. Against Jacksonville and Washington he could get away with that using his physical superiority over the opponent to make things happen.
This isn't conjecture guys- it's fact- confirmed by a source with inside info on a previous thread.
I respect your opinion but the game tape shows otherwise. I know it's hard to detach yourself from what we all THOUGHT he could be after 2011 but it never happened. It sucks but it's true.
The reality is that as a whole, he was TARGETED in the run game and controlled in the passing game unless he was facing an inferior opponent. Over and over they ran right at him while he played undisciplined and out of position football. Against Jacksonville and Washington he could get away with that using his physical superiority over the opponent to make things happen.
This isn't conjecture guys- it's fact- confirmed by a source with inside info on a previous thread.
Which thread was that? Not being snarky, I missed it.
JPP IS a good football player. No doubt about that.
He just isn't this great game changer that he was supposed to pan out to be, and be paid like.
It's horrible to realize that based on his freakish athletic potential but some guys don't have the maturity and mental game necessary to be great.
I agree with this. His lack of development was really disappointing. I think he's better than you're giving him credit for, but agree with your conclusion here.
No matter what you think of JPP, his 2014 version is still better than what they have at DE right now.
So, the Giants have to think that he will contribute this season in a meaningful way because franchising him next year may not be possible if they have to use the tag on Eli. How can they be sure that he can contribute this season when they haven't been able to talk to him? They don't even know what kind of shape he's in at this point.
I'm glad I don't have to be the one to make the decision to either get him up to speed or pull the tender and let him go. It's sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't.
Even one of his biggest detractors like myself would love for JPP to sign a long term deal tomorrow, 8 5 fingers and all. How about a 3 year deal worth 2.5 million per year with some incentives on top? Still leaves him a big payday in a few years if he comes back and rehabs his play and his image.
My point is that even before he rambo'd his hand he wasn't worth anywhere close to 14 million dollars a year. Again, Giants were willing to give him a SECOND prove it year...that was a GIFT.
Then he made a mistake....granted....we all make mistakes. But he wants to be hard about it and basically say "fuck you giants I don't owe you shit". Which is true...he isn't under contract.
But don't come now with hat in hand playing the victim. I bet you if he flew up here the week after July 4th and played the good soldier the Giants would have given him at least 1/3 of his franchise money. They did it with Chad Jones.
Basically. JPP acted like an asshole and now the Giants will treat him like one. He either is retarded, got bad advice, or both.
... and then the bottom dropped out ... IMO, had he not hurt his hand, he would have played an important role on this team only because the defense is so devoid of talent ... bottom line is that I've not been very impressed with JPP since his wonderful rookie year ... it's been my fear that the odds are that the best year of his career will turn out to be his rookie year.
RE: There wasn't a single good player on defense last year, including JPP
ESPN Staff Writer
Source: Jason Pierre Paul plans to return to Giants next week, expects to be able to play at some point early in the season.
Link - ( New Window )
In all seriousness, does he really think that he can cine gave that quickly?
and I'm still in the camp that I would not pay him franchise tag money to have a chance to see it.
Let the games begin!
You have a better plan for our defensive line this season?
You have a better plan for our defensive line this season?
You have to pay this money to see if he has a future. Actually it's a small price to pay. Bad case he is done and we move on. Worst case he signs with another team comes back with a vengeance. At least me he had sonething to prove so he will be motivated.
More like dumbass mistake.
Not even close.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
There was negative talk about him prior to July 4th as well. Not that I agree with it, I like JPP, and am rooting like hell for a nice return.
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is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
Quote:
For whatever reason BBI does NOT like JPP. Since the accident, all we've heard is how useless he is now, what a malignant jerk he is and how he's not much more than an ordinary player.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
it wasn't the accident as much as his obfuscation afterwards that pissed people off.
Something traumatic happened to the young man, I don't think anyone can definitively say how someone would react or not to something like that. How you would and should react are entirely different matters.
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In comment 12451669 Chris684 said:
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is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
Actually, there is nothing that is "spot fucking on" regarding that comment. Nobody said he was going to be a "vegetable". Plenty of people suggested he might not ever play for NYG again, but NO ONE made that kind of comment. Not one.
Do you have to be such an idiot ALL the time?
Good call
More like 20%....
Can see it. A mess
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In comment 12451673 MOOPS said:
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In comment 12451669 Chris684 said:
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is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
Actually, there is nothing that is "spot fucking on" regarding that comment. Nobody said he was going to be a "vegetable". Plenty of people suggested he might not ever play for NYG again, but NO ONE made that kind of comment. Not one.
Do you have to be such an idiot ALL the time?
Somebody in another thread today said he would never play in the NFL again. The 95% number was an (intended) exaggeration. People have been ridiculous about this situation.
You have a better plan for our defensive line this season?
No, it is not my money. But I'm just not in the contingent of fans that don't consider the money side of the game.
When you ask me if I would rather rescind the tag and carry that money into the cap in 2016, I would. Rather than paying him tag money to experiment on whether he can play again. I've never made it a secret that I don't think JPP is a guy you build a franchise around. And I surely don't after this serious injury.
It is just a different perspective. You don't have to agree with it, I'm not asking you to. I just consider the cap in my comments and the going forward organization, not just whether a player is going to be running around this season.
I'm more concerned about what the rest of his hand/thumb is like more than whether he's out a finger..
Guess we'll know soon
Eric, I agree that something is going to brew from this situation. I will be shocked if it is JPP shows up, signs his tender and we see how it goes with him as a player. All evidence to this point with him and his agent being 100% quiet is aligned with them hoping that will be the case.
If Plaxico can win in arbitration (under different circumstances) and get his bonus money maybe JPP can as well, though I'd be surprised.
They better NFI him. I don't care if he is cleared to play. The man has 9 fingers, THAT WE KNOW OF! I don't even want to think about the potential fractional fingers.... What is it? 8 1/2, 1/3, 1/16??! How many fingers do you have man!
Realistically speaking the best we should ever expect from JPP is league average play, at some point years down the line. I would have been ok signing up for that as some sort of reinforcement during the season, after injuries opened up a spot. Not now. Please, please, just go away for a while jason....
Exactly. It's all about getting paid.
You get a doctor. I get a doctor. When they disagree you file a grievance and go to court.
Fuck you JPP.
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/13574132/jason-pierre-paul-plans-return-new-york-giants-next-week - ( New Window )
This is where JPP needs to be a man, own his mistake and accept the consequences.
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The Giants designated Pierre-Paul their franchise player in March, disappointing the young pass rusher who had been seeking a long-term contract. Pierre-Paul has yet to sign his $14.813 million franchise tender and won't sign it until he is sure the Giants won't place him on the non-football injury list.
Fuck you JPP. http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/13574132/jason-pierre-paul-plans-return-new-york-giants-next-week - ( New Window )
Everyone needs to read the last paragraph about JPPs opinion. This is precisely what you would expect, or at least I did. This has all the makings of him trying to portray he is ready and once the medical comes in, him not being so (he's been invisible all summer with multiple requests to see him). He now wants game checks. I agree with Eric that this is going to become a side show of sorts, one opinion vs the other.
Guys it's not going to make a difference if he has 9 fingers or 3 fingers, is in shape or out of shape.
He played shitty beforehand (pun intended) in a contract year and will be a liability whenever he gets back. He's lazy, undisciplined, immature and squandered all of the potential in the world. There are guys who would kill to have his pre-injury god gifted athleticism and he took it for granted and pissed away millions in the process. He's so stupid that if he busted his ass last year he would have had his guaranteed contract in March, yet he loafed it against all but the crappiest competition and then with the financial well being of 5 generations of his family at his fingertips (again- pun intended) - he let it go all up in smoke for unnecessary reasons. Yeah let's look to this guy to be a cornerstone player for the 2015 Giants. Give me a break.
Not even kidding I would prefer to start Jimmy Staten for 16 games over JPP. JPP brings down others around him and I can't believe so few of you see it. Poor attitude from star players permeates a locker room like a virus. Eli isn't a vocal enough leader to control that type of stuff, and there isn't anyone else on the roster who commands any kind of real respect.
Best case at this point is the Giants start hot and guys like Moore and Wynn go off- making it easy for the Gmen to keep him on NFI all year long. Actually I'm wrong- best case is to just pull the tender and let him sign wherever he wants with his claw ass hand but I understand why the Giants don't want to do that yet.
So as pissed as anyone is that JPP went Tropic Thunder on his own hand- imagine how pissed we will all be if the Giants are playing well to start the year and this ass pimple of a distraction starts chirping how he is ready to play and wants his money. You're looking at lawsuits, grievances and the whole shebang right there.
This is the kind of thing that derails a season, and in a sense it's a shame that the coaching career of one of the top 20 coaches in NFL history could go down in flames in part because of the pyrotechnic habits of a 25 year old chucklehead.
Guys it's not going to make a difference if he has 9 fingers or 3 fingers, is in shape or out of shape.
He played shitty beforehand (pun intended) in a contract year and will be a liability whenever he gets back. He's lazy, undisciplined, immature and squandered all of the potential in the world. There are guys who would kill to have his pre-injury god gifted athleticism and he took it for granted and pissed away millions in the process. He's so stupid that if he busted his ass last year he would have had his guaranteed contract in March, yet he loafed it against all but the crappiest competition and then with the financial well being of 5 generations of his family at his fingertips (again- pun intended) - he let it go all up in smoke for unnecessary reasons. Yeah let's look to this guy to be a cornerstone player for the 2015 Giants. Give me a break.
Not even kidding I would prefer to start Jimmy Staten for 16 games over JPP. JPP brings down others around him and I can't believe so few of you see it. Poor attitude from star players permeates a locker room like a virus. Eli isn't a vocal enough leader to control that type of stuff, and there isn't anyone else on the roster who commands any kind of real respect.
Best case at this point is the Giants start hot and guys like Moore and Wynn go off- making it easy for the Gmen to keep him on NFI all year long. Actually I'm wrong- best case is to just pull the tender and let him sign wherever he wants with his claw ass hand but I understand why the Giants don't want to do that yet.
So as pissed as anyone is that JPP went Tropic Thunder on his own hand- imagine how pissed we will all be if the Giants are playing well to start the year and this ass pimple of a distraction starts chirping how he is ready to play and wants his money. You're looking at lawsuits, grievances and the whole shebang right there.
This is the kind of thing that derails a season, and in a sense it's a shame that the coaching career of one of the top 20 coaches in NFL history could go down in flames in part because of the pyrotechnic habits of a 25 year old chucklehead.
The injuries are not as bad as feared and he will be ready to play in a couple of weeks as a situational player...no NFI and a compromise is reached.
His injuries combined with him being out of football shape make it impossible to contribute until Week 7 and he accepts that he won't be paid for six weeks. (NFI)
The Giants think he won't be ready until Week 7 or later and he refuses to accept that. Legal dispute.
However, ESPN.com says, Pierre-Paul wont sign (his Franchise tender) until he is sure the Giants wont place him on the non-football injury list and that he would like to speak to the Giants about guaranteeing the prorated portion of his salary that reflects the number of games he and they expect him to be able to play.
Report: Jason Pierre-Paul to Return Next Week - ( New Window )
This is all about JPP maximizing his $$$ at this point. If the man had any humility, he wouldn't set any conditions at this point.
Beyond all of that, the last photo we saw of him, he looked like he lost a bunch of weight (which you would expect).
But say he signs the tender and the Giants try to put him on the NFI. If JPP wins his case, the Giants might have to pay him the tender.
Of course, I wonder if the Giants rescind the tender after examining his injuries.
The whole thing is a mess.
But the whole narrative now of "JPP will only come back under certain conditions" doesn't bode well in my eyes.
He should be coming to the Giants with his hat in hand.
Hey look man. I was in the same corner with you. The day the news broke I just about, as politely as I knew how, cussed Go Terps out, up, sideways, and inside out for suggesting JPP was done and should be cut. With time, I have now come fully around to nearly agreeing with him. Due to his self inflicted handicap, JPP will never be more than a bottom 10 or so player on a 53 man nfl roster.
I'm also not a lawyer, but do you really think he would have a court case? Seems like the Giants are in the right here.
But who would even take him? The Raiders? I doubt they'd even do it. He's damaged goods
However, ESPN.com says, Pierre-Paul wont sign (his Franchise tender) until he is sure the Giants wont place him on the non-football injury list and that he would like to speak to the Giants about guaranteeing the prorated portion of his salary that reflects the number of games he and they expect him to be able to play. Report: Jason Pierre-Paul to Return Next Week - ( New Window )
He sure does have a set on him, blowing his hand up and then demanding guarantees.
Ummmm, Jason? Giants still hold all the cards here, buddy...
The thing the Giants have to factor in here are not just the injuries, but the fact that he (1) isn't in football shape, and (2) he knows nothing about the defense.
If he had never blown up his hand, he'd be a bit behind the 8-ball already. Now factor in the injuries. But a third-party doctor won't factor in the football shape/ignorance of the new defensive schemes.
Compromise would be best course here.
The thing the Giants have to factor in here are not just the injuries, but the fact that he (1) isn't in football shape, and (2) he knows nothing about the defense.
If he had never blown up his hand, he'd be a bit behind the 8-ball already. Now factor in the injuries. But a third-party doctor won't factor in the football shape/ignorance of the new defensive schemes.
Compromise would be best course here.
Eric, very good point. I'd forgotten about the third party Dr angle. Probably the route he'd go. If he looks hard enough he can find a Doctor to say anything. I'm sure the Giants have some good lawyers, but if JPP gets a sympathetic judge who just looks at it from an employer-employee angle then he stands a good chance.
We'll lets hope for compromise, but no way the Giants willing give up 15 mil for a player who can't help them until October (best guess).
If he signs the tender, but gets put on NFI, he gets as many games as he's cleared to play.
That's it. He can't extort anything from them. They're not even going to talk about deals, guarantees, or money until a team doctor looks at his medicals.
Quote:
The Giants designated Pierre-Paul their franchise player in March, disappointing the young pass rusher who had been seeking a long-term contract. Pierre-Paul has yet to sign his $14.813 million franchise tender and won't sign it until he is sure the Giants won't place him on the non-football injury list.
Fuck you JPP. http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/13574132/jason-pierre-paul-plans-return-new-york-giants-next-week - ( New Window )
100% Eric.
But ole JPP is in completely uncharted waters. There is no play book for how to handle this. There are also no public appearances, comments or status reports. Probably on the well meaning advice of his agent. Maybe just maybe it was actually good advice. Maybe had he come in in July, he wouldn't have been able to face the coaches and club officials or even the press.
Most Giants fans have taken one of two positions on this matter - it's either (1) screw him, he's not worth it so cut him now or (2) he is a jerk for not coming to NY, putting himself into the oh so capable hands of the NY Football Giants and their doctors and trainers (the same doctors and trainers that 90% of BBI think must be incompetent) so for that he is a bad man. Very few people on this thread or any other I have seen have thought about the situation from JPPs perspective.
And why should they - this isn't JPPInteractive, it's Big Blue Interactive. We are fans of the Giants and their laundry. We love guys who wear our uniform, who sacrifice themselves for our fandom - "thanks for that Super Bowl Hakeem, but sorry your legs don't work anymore. Get the hell out of here. Playing to get that next contract and not get hurt" You know, we all hope that Victor Cruz comes back, but if not, he'll be thought of as a slacker or a malingerer by many of us - just like Hakeem was in 2013 - people who gladly paid $150 for a #80 or #88 jersey 3 years before.
So from this tried and true Giants fan (since 1968 by the way) - who loves that Big Blue laundry as much as anyone here or anywhere - all I can say is just for a minute or two put yourself in the shoes of this guy who I know you loved as much as anyone you aren't related to in the winter of 2011-12. He is likely a scared young man who never meant anyone any harm. We all thought he was fun loving - he did back flips for crying out loud. He was expecting to be rewarded beyond his and all of our imaginations for playing a game and now he is facing a totally new reality. Just for a minute consider that.
But ole JPP is in completely uncharted waters. There is no play book for how to handle this. There are also no public appearances, comments or status reports. Probably on the well meaning advice of his agent. Maybe just maybe it was actually good advice. Maybe had he come in in July, he wouldn't have been able to face the coaches and club officials or even the press.
Most Giants fans have taken one of two positions on this matter - it's either (1) screw him, he's not worth it so cut him now or (2) he is a jerk for not coming to NY, putting himself into the oh so capable hands of the NY Football Giants and their doctors and trainers (the same doctors and trainers that 90% of BBI think must be incompetent) so for that he is a bad man. Very few people on this thread or any other I have seen have thought about the situation from JPPs perspective.
And why should they - this isn't JPPInteractive, it's Big Blue Interactive. We are fans of the Giants and their laundry. We love guys who wear our uniform, who sacrifice themselves for our fandom - "thanks for that Super Bowl Hakeem, but sorry your legs don't work anymore. Get the hell out of here. Playing to get that next contract and not get hurt" You know, we all hope that Victor Cruz comes back, but if not, he'll be thought of as a slacker or a malingerer by many of us - just like Hakeem was in 2013 - people who gladly paid $150 for a #80 or #88 jersey 3 years before.
So from this tried and true Giants fan (since 1968 by the way) - who loves that Big Blue laundry as much as anyone here or anywhere - all I can say is just for a minute or two put yourself in the shoes of this guy who I know you loved as much as anyone you aren't related to in the winter of 2011-12. He is likely a scared young man who never meant anyone any harm. We all thought he was fun loving - he did back flips for crying out loud. He was expecting to be rewarded beyond his and all of our imaginations for playing a game and now he is facing a totally new reality. Just for a minute consider that.
Good post, Turk.
JPP takes it to the Union/CBA.
JPP takes it to the Union/CBA.
Even sooner than that - I see him fighting the NFI designation...
Ah - my bad...
Is it just a medical exam from NYG to determine extent or does he have to pass the physical which could test the hand?
We keep talking about the finger...but what about the skin grafts? What about the fractured thumb? Are there other injuries we don't know about?
John Mara confirmed that Jason Pierre-Paul's agent has informed the Giants he will return to the team sometime next week.
Now it's Giants move. They finally get to examine him and determine if he's ready to play. If he's not they put him on NFI. they save 900K per week which they can use towards next years cap number BTW.
Then it's JPPs move. He either files a grievance (I believe CBA says player can grieve NFI designation) or he accepts NFI and hopes to be ready in the 6-9 week window.
The only alternatives to the above scenario Is that both sides try to negotiate a deal for some portion of contract guarantee. But Giants would never do that until they have a full medical exam.
Also, I forgot that it's 17 weeks of pay, and not 16.
When Strahan used to hold out to avoid training camp he wasn't up to speed until the 3rd game.
With JPP, I'd have to think that tackling with a damaged right hand would make him less effective.
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In comment 12451669 Chris684 said:
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is staring at the screen in confusion as they've already convinced themselves that JPP will live out the rest of his days as vegetable after getting one finger amputated.
Not even close.
Actually it's spot fucking on. This board has been a joke regarding JPP.
Meanwhile we also want to post on BBI about how to get a raise or get a better job; mock other posters; proclaim everybody who doesn't agree with us to be idiots; and argue with the mods over bannings, etc.
Some of you will say I'm full of shit, but you're idiots.
A. In '15 if Giants pull tender
B. In '16 if JPP hit market
The CBA says that teams may withhold salary payments to players on NFI, not that they must.
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goes on the NFI, he loses at least $5.55 million.
The CBA says that teams may withhold salary payments to players on NFI, not that they must.
Understood, so probably based on the medical status a compromise might be available.
Plus, all that does is save Mara some money. It does not help the Giants one iota.
The only winning situation is for JPP to come back and play. Anything else is a bad scenario for the Giants.
Thanks.
Paying $5 million for someone to sit on his ass makes little sense to me if the money can be spent to help the team elsewhere.
Of course, they could come to a compromise too.
I really wish they had just dropped the tender and put this sad story behind them in time for the season.
And folks here are acting like this is good news and he will be ready to help the Giants soon. LOL
I'll stick with my November prediction.
And folks here are acting like this is good news and he will be ready to help the Giants soon. LOL
I'll stick with my November prediction.
JPP didn't blow your finger off he blew his own off. I know it's hard to fathom but he doesn't owe us anything right now. He's not even signed to a contract yet.
And if you think most players wouldn't handle this the same way JPP has, and he has handled it somewhat poorly, you're fooling yourself.
We are talking about millions upon millions of dollars at stake. Save me the self righteous crap from some of you. The guy may never earn another dollar in his chosen profession of course he's paranoid. He hasn't fuct the Giants as much as some of you think. He's not under contract. It's as simple as that.
JPP didn't blow your finger off he blew his own off. I know it's hard to fathom but he doesn't owe us anything right now. He's not even signed to a contract yet.
And if you think most players wouldn't handle this the same way JPP has, and he has handled it somewhat poorly, you're fooling yourself.
We are talking about millions upon millions of dollars at stake. Save me the self righteous crap from some of you. The guy may never earn another dollar in his chosen profession of course he's paranoid. He hasn't fuct the Giants as much as some of you think. He's not under contract. It's as simple as that.
Franchising him was a mistake.
The best way he could have helped himself was at least learning the defense in the classroom/sidelines. Now he's got to overcome that hurdle too.
Now that he stands to lose the weekly tag money he wants to be Johnny Giant?
He and his agent fucked this up so bad even the agents career is going to end after this. The move was for JPP to put his tail between his legs and get his ass up to NY. This would have accomplished all of his goals but he's so retarded he didn't think it through.
1) he would have availed himself to the Giants brass who could have immediately began to negotiate some kind of workable arrangement for both sides
2) he would have instantly won the court of public opinion and could have easily played the "I'm now a mature pro now" card to rebuild his image
3) If the absolute worst case scenario of the Giants removing the tag came true he could have signed with anyone after meeting with their medical staff OR taken the season to heal/rehab and become the most in demand free agent DE next year.
Instead he and his advisors developed a half asset hair brained scheme to try to force the Gia ts to pay his salary or at least part of it.
I don't care if he's paranoid or anxious about it. HE FUCKED HIMSELF and has nobody to blame. The injury was one thing but his reaction has really done the long term damage. I'd sue my reps if I was him to be honest. Talk about bad advice.
The best way he could have helped himself was at least learning the defense in the classroom/sidelines. Now he's got to overcome that hurdle too.
Coach Nunn talked about how important it was for JPP to be in camp from a mental standpoint well before the injury occurred.
Coach Nunn talked about how important it was for JPP to be in camp from a mental standpoint well before the injury occurred.
This would have been the mature thing to do. I'm sure he could have said. "Look I'll sit in the classroom, but my hand is staying wrapped until I'm ready."
Poor class from a guy that Giants gambled on in the 1st round and paid out on a five-year, $20.05 million deal with $11.629 million guaranteed. He earned that contract and then some, but show some smarts and class.
He's coming in with a Dr report saying he can play and if he gets the NFI, a fighting chance in an arbitration of getting the 5.5 million - and no talk of pulling the tender. With Dr report in hand, FA is too risky for the team.
Why do you people think Big Jawn was yapping to the press a few weeks ago ?
Coach Nunn talked about how important it was for JPP to be in camp from a mental standpoint well before the injury occurred.
They are so exquisetely lucky and spoiled. They have been a marvelous gift and this kid is allready a millionaire and made a millionaire by a system and team that he now wants to cheat. And isn't that exactly what's going on.? Due to HIS foolishness he compromised his talent but he wants to get paid as if it didn't happen. The case is made more stark because HE did it to himself, it's not even as if he sustained a car accident where he didn't contribute to his plight.
This strange world where we pay 21 year old millions to play a game..where they retire at 30 with millions, where they never really work a job as I define it, where college is free, where most women are too and now he's still only in his twenties, he's made millions, he's acted relentlessly foolish and I who've worked my whole life am supposed to feel sorry for him...Oh my he might have to actually work at a real job. Do you realize that's not even in the equation.
I think the Plax shooting hurt the team with his loss but also with the distraction.
I want this guy cut. I want the distraction gone and I want the cap space. And there's a logic that's come in with the union and the cap. You can actually afford to lose your stars because of the cap space you gain.
The milk of my kindness is curdled. Screw the young man, he's still got overall health, I hope he actually has to go out and get a job....but that's not going to happen.
They are so exquisetely lucky and spoiled. They have been a marvelous gift and this kid is allready a millionaire and made a millionaire by a system and team that he now wants to cheat. And isn't that exactly what's going on.? Due to HIS foolishness he compromised his talent but he wants to get paid as if it didn't happen. The case is made more stark because HE did it to himself, it's not even as if he sustained a car accident where he didn't contribute to his plight.
This strange world where we pay 21 year old millions to play a game..where they retire at 30 with millions, where they never really work a job as I define it, where college is free, where most women are too and now he's still only in his twenties, he's made millions, he's acted relentlessly foolish and I who've worked my whole life am supposed to feel sorry for him...Oh my he might have to actually work at a real job. Do you realize that's not even in the equation.
I think the Plax shooting hurt the team with his loss but also with the distraction.
I want this guy cut. I want the distraction gone and I want the cap space. And there's a logic that's come in with the union and the cap. You can actually afford to lose your stars because of the cap space you gain.
The milk of my kindness is curdled. Screw the young man, he's still got overall health, I hope he actually has to go out and get a job....but that's not going to happen.
Cheat? How the fuck is showing up and hoping to get paid, cheating?
I understand your resentment of millionaire entitled athletes, but it's your very interest in them that makes it so. JPP has done nothing wrong, but if you look closely enough you may just discover that you are a hypocrite.
Our society supports millionaire entitled athletes. JPP is a part of this class. He's not cheating. He's doing what anybody in his situation would do including just about every freaking one of the New York Football Giants.
Bottom line: if he's able to practice now and is going to be able to play in week 3 or 4, the Giants will be happy to have him, and will pay him. I doubt that they will risk alienating perhaps their best player by fighting over money (albeit a lot) that they don't need.
Someone made the argument that we would be better off in the long term saying goodbye to JPP and having the cap space going forward as well as getting rid of a distraction. I am in that club
everyone is so sure he's going on NFI if he signs the tender. He's NOT signing the tender if the Giants have a legitimate case to put him on NFI. My opinion is, and always has been, that he's going to sign when he's close to being ready. If it's obvious that he's not going to be ready til week 7, there's no way he's going to sign now and go to NFI. He'll wait til week 5. Giants would be stupid to put him on NFI and lose 4 games he's capable of playing in. He apparently thinks he can play in a few weeks, albeit with a cast on. Hence he's showing up now, hoping the Giants will carry him for a couple of weeks. It's a very prudent move. Giants get to prep him for learning the system and control the rehab. JPP gets paid. There's options for compromising and paying him some, but not all, for a couple of weeks. everyone saves face.
typical contract negotiation. Of course he wants to maximize his dollars. the majority of the human race wants the same thing. very few people in a position of being able to negotiate a salary don't do the exact same thing. What's unknown is how much he'll dig in his heels (aka, being a dick). he's going to dig in some, and he should, but it's not automatic that he's an absolute asshole. let's wait for it to play out, first.
the cast. it's not uncommon for players to play with a cast on. absolutely, it diminishes playing capability. but, IF JPP had signed, come to work, tripped and broke a finger, would we rather he sat out completely, or play with a cast on? It's complicated by a couple months of not being able to work the upper body (at least one side). It does muddy the waters legally, because there is precedent of players playing with a cast.
Utmost: it's a GOOD thing that the Giants get to officially examine his condition. I don't buy that the team doesn't know his overall condition, but now they get to lay eyes on him and get down to the nitty gritty.
sans him signing a long term deal at the last minute back in July (no fireworks incident), I firmly believe he was holding out all camp anyway, so the whole 'he doesn't know the playbook' thing is moot. he wasn't going to know it anyway, and we'd just be bitching about him for a different reason.
now begins the negotiation.
Your rebuttal seems to be that everyone is doing it. to me, that doesn't mitigate the fact that he's cheating.
And not everyone would do it either, that's a blanket statement dealing with absolutes.
That said, after a skin graft, the skin looks horrible. It is dead at the surface with no blood flow, and turns grey/black. There is lots of swelling and stitches. It freaked me out at first but the surgeon said it was normal. I think there is NO WAY IN HELL THEY LET THE GIANTS SEE THAT MANGLED MESS.
After 4-6 weeks after stitches are out the dead layers come off and it looks raw and pink. There is scar tissue to break up by flexing to get range of motion back. I think the agent's play here was to get the hand as healed as possible before payday arrived and they had to come in. What the Giants will see now will look a lot better than it did afterward.
I also think they may have written off weeks 1-6 long ago. They are saying no NFI as a stalling technique and advocacy position, but I think it's been play book be damned, let's get maximally healed before anyone sees this mess.
This web image gives an idea, but this is already on the way to healing - ( New Window )
That said, after a skin graft, the skin looks horrible. It is dead at the surface with no blood flow, and turns grey/black. There is lots of swelling and stitches. It freaked me out at first but the surgeon said it was normal. I think there is NO WAY IN HELL THEY LET THE GIANTS SEE THAT MANGLED MESS.
After 4-6 weeks after stitches are out the dead layers come off and it looks raw and pink. There is scar tissue to break up by flexing to get range of motion back. I think the agent's play here was to get the hand as healed as possible before payday arrived and they had to come in. What the Giants will see now will look a lot better than it did afterward.
I also think they may have written off weeks 1-6 long ago. They are saying no NFI as a stalling technique and advocacy position, but I think it's been play book be damned, let's get maximally healed before anyone sees this mess. This web image gives an idea, but this is already on the way to healing - ( New Window )
I had one too on a ring finger and you described it perfectly. All that graft does is protect the open wound until the skin underneath grows over the wound and then it falls off. Yep pink, raw, thin and iirc (30 years ago) pretty sensitive to begin with.
The employee is going to want to protect himself, the employer is going to want to protect themselves.
If anyone, JPP included, think they are going to come in and play week one..well that is just crazy.
JPP, from what I can tell seems to feel the same way, but wants to get paid for at least part of those game day checks.
If he was forthright and let the Giants take a look, I imagine they'd take care of him...I mean look at Chad Jones. He was a draft pick who was injured and everyone knew the chances of him ever playing were slim to none and the Giants took care of him for what 2-3 years?
If JPP wants the full 14+ mil, I don't give it to him. He is not in football shape, he doesn't know the D and, in my opinion, got some bad advice. Granted the Giants were not his employer, but in all reality they were the only employer he can talk too -- so in reality, they were.
As far as "he is a veteren, how hard can it be?" Didn't it take Strahan and co a full offseason, preseaon and like 6 games to figure it out?
No way in hell should he get the full 15 million. This team is a 4-6 win team with JPP. They can use the money towards next season. He's not going to be here in 2016 anyway.
Examine him, and send him packing. Money can be better spent elsewhere.
Your rebuttal seems to be that everyone is doing it. to me, that doesn't mitigate the fact that he's cheating.
And not everyone would do it either, that's a blanket statement dealing with absolutes.
How is he cheating, Grizz? What rule is he breaking?
This is the essence of the battle line:
In comment 12452729 HomerJones45 said:
[Now] He's coming in with a Dr report saying he can play and if he gets the NFI, a fighting chance in an arbitration of getting the 5.5 million - and no talk of pulling the tender. With Dr report in hand, FA is too risky for the team.
Except I think HJ's 1st and 2nd paras contradict one another in the sense that they describe the same tension, the same outcome: standoff leading to arbitration vs. negotiation, the only difference is the timing.
Unless team and agent agree next week, an unlikely outcome, this will be similar to a battle of expert witnesses (think of "My Cousin Vinnie" for the humorous side). Agent's medical expert vs. Giants' experts from HSS and some prestigious teaching med school. The fault line is the bio-mechanical conclusions to be drawn from the state of JPP's right hand after examination.
But, unlike, say, an MCL or ACL, or achilles, where the degree of instability and susceptibility to further injury is measurable, now the docs, from multiple medical disciplines, will battle it out as to whether, between loss of the digit, stability of the hardware in the thumb, and skin grafts, the player can function at approximately his former skill level, or at an NFL level at all. For this question, it may be that one expert's view is as valid as another's because there is so little precedent, so little prior experience.
It will all be about the timing, whether there is consensus about physical ability at the end of that timing, and the parties true intentions, whether they want reach agreement somewhere in the reasonable middle of a very murky puzzle.
The question of JPP's physical conditioning--his ability to work out in the weight room--is relevant but ancillary, again more a question of timing.
Sounds pretty motivating.
1) the thumb is either healed or not - x-rays - and functionality can certainly be measured.
2.) MDs/therapists can certainly measure strength of the hand vs the other hand
3.) burn/open wound/skin graft - either is closed and healed or it isn't. How strong the skin is at this point would be a matter of contention.
JPP's side is going to have to come up with some pretty renowned surgeons to offset the Giants doctors if there is a major difference of opinion.
If the Giants think he can help the team they should create an opportunity
his only chance was to create this mystery and ambiguity to string the Giants out and make the hand look as good as possible before reporting. specialists, plastic surgeons, you name it. also to learn how to use it, hit the weight room and get into a better mental state. w/that much $$$ at stake everything's evaluated
think JPP the business handled this beautifully and bought him time he hopefully could use to his advantage
JPP when healthy was our best defensive player on the field - if there is anything that he can do to help the Giants -- I am all for it -- and It's quite possible that he and his agent and the Giants are all motivated to do a deal
It takes a lot to push Jerry Reese over the edge-- he proved that with Shockey, Osi, and Strahan -- he has the right mentality to evaluate a beneficial path for the team and make a deal with the JPP camp here -- if the JPP camp wants to go all scorched Earth here, I'm not sure that will benefit them so it's possible they are equally in a negotiating mood. The fact that JPP has agree to go in for a medical evaluation before signing is a very good sign for setting up a negotiation and it also means they agreed to come in on the Giants terms.
Let me add -- I really, really hope and pray that JPP can be a contributor to the Defense this year -- we and his teammates need him if he is able to
- you have multiple injuries to the right hand/arm; PERHAPS one team of docs can agree with the other's that there is adequate healing, each injury in isolation
- how do the respective healing processes of the three separate, serious injuries interplay
- there is no base line for JPP's right hand/arm prior to the injury
- most important, how does his new, limited right hand functionality impact his effectiveness--on this, your opinion is as good as mine, and that's the problem
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
Good post Fats. It's a slippery slope to a scummy team when you start to collect guys like that.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
Fats -- there's only one thing I would point out to you. JPP has a sort of happy go luck attitude that his teammates have expressed fondness for. His negotiating position may not be of his own making -- but from advise he is getting and that includes his family and agent. We don't know what the inside truth is -- he is a very young kid and may be impressionable -- but it's possible that he may still be able to embrace a team concept -- and while I'm not sure that he reined the 100% best advice here -- Strahan and Osi were able to embrace the concept of team even after taking positions detrimental to the team. JPP is the closest thing talent wise to those guys that we have too -- so we really have to hope that all parties can transcend what took place here
How much Maras and Reese share that perspective will be revealed in due time.
he's a big kid, very immature but this is not a bad guy
- you have multiple injuries to the right hand/arm; PERHAPS one team of docs can agree with the other's that there is adequate healing, each injury in isolation
- how do the respective healing processes of the three separate, serious injuries interplay
- there is no base line for JPP's right hand/arm prior to the injury
- most important, how does his new, limited right hand functionality impact his effectiveness--on this, your opinion is as good as mine, and that's the problem
I don't think it is glib at all.
the thumb is either healed or it is still broken.
strength can be measured against his left hand - they don't need a baseline for the right. how strong his hand is, is measureable - I'm sure of that.
the functionality of the new hand can only be seen when he gets back on the practice field.
I think you are correct about the interaction of each individual injury and just they respond to exertion, but over thinking how the Giants move forward from this. If each part is healed, then they can move to the next phase which is getting him on to the field.
You're probably right about the doctor's report/NFI thing. This thing will probably get very ugly, before it's all over.
He "played this perfectly" for himself and with regard to nobody else, most certainly not the team.
If that's the type of guy you'd want here, have at it. It isn't the type of guy I want here. A guy who expects to get paid despite self-inflicting a wond. A type of guy who leaves a team looking for answers waiting until he can maximize his worth?
We can debate how well he's played the situation, but there's one thing we can probably all agree on(although I hesitate to say something like that on BBI) - that JPP has not helped the team one iota during this situation - and let me remind you - it wasn't a football injury where he can blame the employer.
As fans - if you want a guy like that around, that says a lot, but then again, with people falling over their dicks about La'el Collins and Will Hill and guys like that, it really doesn't surprise me.
Exactly. Great post. We are FANS. New York Giants fans. We root for the laundry. This entire scenario has hurt our team and its chances to compete. Period. How people on this side of the fence can say that JPP has handled this beautifully is mind boggling. He blew up his own hand and has acted like the victim the entire time. All the meanwhile, our favorite team has to sit on the money they could be using to help it, while its formerly best player sits at home mending his self inflicted wounds.
We ARE FANS! This guy is hurting our team and you come out with Pom Pom waving bullshit?
both in present terms and future terms.
Quote:
take one for the team BS is for the fans. These guys are businessmen. to take a stand against JPP for that is assinine
We ARE FANS! This guy is hurting our team and you come out with Pom Pom waving bullshit?
As a FAN I resent having you tell me how to feel. I root for the laundry. Doesn't mean I'm not 100% sympathetic to a guy who is playing the game within the rules.
I expect the Giants to do the same and NFI him if, in their judgement, he's not ready to play.
Your a FAN!!! So what what? I'm a FAN too, and I don't think like you do.
(appologies in advance for my mocking tone, but your post pissed me off)
I think when JPP decides to show up next week will be very telling. If he really thinks he can contribute, then he better show up early in the week for game planning.
If he knows he can't and is trying to scoot around the NFI, then he will show up later.
Thank God he'll likely be gone in 2016. I hate wasting a roster spot on somebody that doesn't put the Game and the Team as their highest priorities. What a waste of talent. If he had put his mind into being the best he can be, he could have been one of the best DEs in the game.
If it isn't, does having JPP on it, make it one?
And does JPP figure in the Giant's plans for next year?
Let's face it, the front office/coaching staff, is under a lot of pressure to have a winning season...desperate enough to over pay for a guy, who is a huge question mark?
The best way he could have helped himself was at least learning the defense in the classroom/sidelines. Now he's got to overcome that hurdle too.
This is spot on. The one thing that is certain is if JPP wants anywhere enar the $$$ he's looking for, he has to prove it on the field. If his camps goal was to get the team to release him so he could hit the FA market, what good would that do? Sure, someone would sign him, but how much would any team commit without seeing how he can actually play? Even with a physical.
He's set to make a good chunk of cash this season, but what he really wants is that big long term contract and the only way that is happening is if he plays this year and plays well. The only way that happens is getting in with the team, learning this defense, and getting himself ready to play football. Avoiding the team has set him BACK in his persuit of a big contract because its delaying the time he can get on the field and perform well.
I am convinced some of this is resentment. He probably feels he should have had his big long term deal already but the team blocked him.
but, rarely does a player think of team first, paycheck second.
IMO, the reality is that JPP's contribution to the team this year would be the same no matter how he approached it. All that changes is what we'd be bitching about.
We fall prey to the 16.5 sacks from a number of years ago but the reality is, the Giants have been afraid to pay him big because they weren't sure what they would get afterward. This isn't LT, who was a demon on the field week in and week out, or Strahan who was a leader (sometimes against the regime, but still a leader in the locker room) or Tuck who lead by example on the field and held people together or Pierce who was the emotional and cerebral leader of MEN (not a bunch of kids needing to be led but MEN who had been around this league)...
Everything about this situation has screamed immature and you can't blame that on youth. You are your choices and your decisions and his are questionable at best.
Strange, given the hand he had (pun intended) in bringing this franchise its 4th super bowl victory.
Probably still a way to go, but I don't see why JPP can't be back around the same time, or maybe just before Beatty.
Spot on. Let's root for this guy. He made a stupid mistake and a childish one but it is just that. I'll be cheering like hell for this guy to get back on the field, Giants uniform or not. I won't forget the 2011 season and we don't win without jpp. He was an absolute monster and probably the best defensive season I've seen from a Giants player in my time watching the sport.
He's coming in with a Dr report saying he can play and if he gets the NFI, a fighting chance in an arbitration of getting the 5.5 million - and no talk of pulling the tender. With Dr report in hand, FA is too risky for the team.
Why do you people think Big Jawn was yapping to the press a few weeks ago ?
There have been some zingers on BBI over the years but this one stands out in particular. This is literally the worst analysis of a negotiation position I've ever read. Seriously, the second dumbest analysis of a contract situation ever presented is a thousand times more intelligent than this.
I'm struggling with whether I should feel disgust or pity that there's some poor guy walking the Earth with a brain like yours.
I disagree. If he wants to get paid anywhere near what he is looking for he needs to prove it on the field. He's not getting a huge contract based on a medical and a prayer. And he's not going to just show up at any time and perform. There is a new defense to learn and he has to learn how to play with his injury. The way his camp is playing it is counter to him having a good year, which is counter to his signing a big contract.
both in present terms and future terms.
Well said. JPP is a major disappointment. He has made millions, even while missing games due to injury. He has performed well at times and not so well other times. The team has always paid him, even when he did not or could not perform. He made a stupid mistake, got some "business advice" presumably from his agent and has played this unfortunate situation out to the best possible business advantage for his future. Good for him. However, this is all about business and there is no evidence of leadership by JPP or even a hint of loyalty. Instead it is simply a guy trying to make as much as he can from a bad situation that he created. Just a business decision.
If there is one team in all of pro football that has shown loyalty to current and former players, even to the detriment of the team's bottom line, it is the Giants. They deserved better from JPP.
Plaxico Burress helped us to a Super Bowl and made the game-winning catch. Yet the very next year, he shot himself in the leg, ending his career (not the shot, but the jail pretty much did).
Were people looking forward to welcoming him back? No. Why? Because he took a big shit on the franchise with his careless actions. I don't really see how the JPP situation is that much different. When you make yourself an adversary of the team, on an issue not inflicted by the team, I'll side with the team every time.
Remember that Plax was pissed at the way the Giants treated him too. Were the fans sympathetic? Hell no.
My issue has little to do with his current strategy and a lot more to do with working out on his own all year and never attending any of the team activities since Spags has returned.
He has no idea what Spags offense is all about, and his HC hasn't seen him since the end of the '14 regular season.
I mean, how do you justify that? How do you look your teammates, coaches, GM and owner in the face and say "I want to be a part of this team and help it win" when you've contributed nothing since your new DC and several new teammates have arrived?
The accident and subsequent weeks missed as a result were simply the tipping point.
Forget about his health...assuming he's physically ready, how motivated would you as a DC or HC be to simply insert him into the line-up ahead of a guy whose been busting his ass to learn the defense and participated in all of the team programs?
As a teammate along the DL, how do you really feel?
Yes the guy has immense talent, but we've seen many immensely talented guys flame out over the years. What's the ROI to the team overall?
THIS is my problem with JPP.
It doesn't seem relevant that JPP believes he can play before Week 7. He's injured now, it was a non-football injury, and his personal prognosis doesn't really mean much.
If he comes back and can play and help the team, how is this is bad thing
Essentially, he needs to be back quickly, or it will be ridiculous to pay him for half a season when he'll leave after the year is up anyway.
I root for a lot of guys to return from injury. Not one who is unsigned, unlikely to play for half the season, and is leaving the following season.
Mr. Mara if you are reading this I implore you to put this guy in the rearview mirror forever. The long odds of getting anything worthwhile for him are outweighed by the negativity of the situation off the field and more importantly on it if he comes back at all.
Everything since he was franchised has been a mistake. Call it a sunk cost and move on. Please. There are already players on the team and at his position that have busted their asses all summer. They don't deserve to deal with this bullshit, and neither do the fans. It's the only way to ensure no more bad comes from this.
Pull the tender.
Examine him, and send him packing. Money can be better spent elsewhere.
couldn't agree more!!any money they spend on him is just pissing it away for next year. See ya JPP...remember you said it...this is a business and your ROI is at about zero
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The Giants want him to produce all year, but JPP only has to show competency at some point this year to prove to the league that he's back.
because they can pull it at any time.
Its not like he can sign it at any time and make the Giants honor it
Dunno how it works if the Giants decide to pull the tender at the same time as JPP signs it, but more or less if JPP signs the tender, the giants are on the hook, and then the only recourse is NFI.
Your main point, as I see it, is that the Giants control his rights in the meantime, so might as well hold on to them.
but it might get tricky if he decides to sign and the Giants don't yank the offer quickly enough.
Is the tender like in the Giants offices where they can NOT allow him to sign until he takes said tests?
Under Article 10, Section 2(c) of the CBA, the contract can be terminated if the player fails to establish or maintain his excellent physical condition.
Any effort to do so would result in a review of the situation by a neutral physician and, eventually and inevitably, arbitration. Still, the franchise tender technically isnt fully and completely guaranteed.
JTGiants who is connected explained this on a previous thread but it was dismissed by the BBI mob mentality who forms an opinion and holds onto it for dear life, regardless of what they are watching, hearing or seeing.
If you think you are getting a 2011 JPP back even if he magically sprouts a finger, you better stop at Avenue of the America's and grab Strahan and find a time machine to get back 2011 Osi. Best case scenario is you get a maimed version of the 2014 JPP- he'll show up against the crap teams and be on the field when Romo is pitching a tent in the backfield waiting for a WR to open up. That's a BEST case scenario. Does anyone really think he is going to be BETTER than last year with 8 fingers?
It's a business decision why I don't want JPP back, it's not some blind loyalty to a uniform or the team. Newsflash to all of the rah rah JPP guys who will say how wrong I am and how JPP had 1 million tackles blah blah blah look at the facts. JJ Watt doesn't play on the franchise tag, nor do the other top DE's. Before any of this happened JPP was getting a GIFT 2nd prove it year from the team. Rather than see the opportunity in front of him, he decided to nuke his hand off.
So if he wasn't good last year and the Giants brass thought that way, why did they guarantee him $14.4 MM?
Do you really think "he decided to nuke his hand off". I'm not even in the pro-JPP crowd, but this is pretty harsh, right?
Looking for the new one with him doing it with one hand ...
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A ten fingered JPP wasn't even good last year. Believe what you want but internally that's part of the Giants brass' discussion.
So if he wasn't good last year and the Giants brass thought that way, why did they guarantee him $14.4 MM?
That was their error. They stay too loyal to guys that don't deserve it sometimes.
Quote:
A ten fingered JPP wasn't even good last year. Believe what you want but internally that's part of the Giants brass' discussion.
So if he wasn't good last year and the Giants brass thought that way, why did they guarantee him $14.4 MM?
Because they were hoping (pre injury) that there was a chance he'd revert back to 2011 JPP. Thinking maybe it was the past two seasons that have been the anomaly. If they thought he was that good last year, based on his past history of success, they'd likely had signed him to a long term deal. I think you have it backwards
WTF are some people talking about!?
Does this defense have one player besides JPP that offensive coordinators really have to account for?
JPP is a VERY good football player and as much as he is an idiot for doing this to himself, the Giants are not a better football team without him no matter how many time Go Terps says so.
But it was his whole demeanor and attitude BEFORE the incident with respect to how the Giants treated him and especially now with the incident that made me sour on the guy.
I still say take that money, base, and pay Eli and Prince big this year so we are totally free for maybe a good haul of much needed blood next year. I'm not big on using free agency to build a team but we'll clearly need at least one safety next off-season (big ticket). :(
The reality is that as a whole, he was TARGETED in the run game and controlled in the passing game unless he was facing an inferior opponent. Over and over they ran right at him while he played undisciplined and out of position football. Against Jacksonville and Washington he could get away with that using his physical superiority over the opponent to make things happen.
This isn't conjecture guys- it's fact- confirmed by a source with inside info on a previous thread.
He just isn't this great game changer that he was supposed to pan out to be, and be paid like.
It's horrible to realize that based on his freakish athletic potential but some guys don't have the maturity and mental game necessary to be great.
The reality is that as a whole, he was TARGETED in the run game and controlled in the passing game unless he was facing an inferior opponent. Over and over they ran right at him while he played undisciplined and out of position football. Against Jacksonville and Washington he could get away with that using his physical superiority over the opponent to make things happen.
This isn't conjecture guys- it's fact- confirmed by a source with inside info on a previous thread.
Which thread was that? Not being snarky, I missed it.
He just isn't this great game changer that he was supposed to pan out to be, and be paid like.
It's horrible to realize that based on his freakish athletic potential but some guys don't have the maturity and mental game necessary to be great.
I agree with this. His lack of development was really disappointing. I think he's better than you're giving him credit for, but agree with your conclusion here.
2011 was excellent.
2012 he PLAYED THROUGH (for those who don't think he's a team guy) a back injury that ultimately needed surgery.
2013 dealt with recovery from back surgery, declared himself healthy again, looked great again before ultimately messing up his shoulder.
2014 another solid season.
I'd take JPP with a bad back and 9 fingers any day. But let's just pretend he is a spare part.
2011 was excellent.
2012 he PLAYED THROUGH (for those who don't think he's a team guy) a back injury that ultimately needed surgery.
2013 dealt with recovery from back surgery, declared himself healthy again, looked great again before ultimately messing up his shoulder.
2014 another solid season.
I'd take JPP with a bad back and 9 fingers any day. But let's just pretend he is a spare part.
Allow me to add to your good point:
8th in sacks in the NFL
Tied for 3rd in passes defensed by a lineman behind Watt and Ngata
2nd in the NFL in tackles by a lineman behind Watt.
Some of you guys aren't looking for an excellent defensive end; you want fucking Superman out there.
So, the Giants have to think that he will contribute this season in a meaningful way because franchising him next year may not be possible if they have to use the tag on Eli. How can they be sure that he can contribute this season when they haven't been able to talk to him? They don't even know what kind of shape he's in at this point.
I'm glad I don't have to be the one to make the decision to either get him up to speed or pull the tender and let him go. It's sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't.
And?
The 49'ers aren't really that good. I wouldn't use their game plan against us as some indication of how good a particular player on our team is.
Even one of his biggest detractors like myself would love for JPP to sign a long term deal tomorrow, 8 5 fingers and all. How about a 3 year deal worth 2.5 million per year with some incentives on top? Still leaves him a big payday in a few years if he comes back and rehabs his play and his image.
My point is that even before he rambo'd his hand he wasn't worth anywhere close to 14 million dollars a year. Again, Giants were willing to give him a SECOND prove it year...that was a GIFT.
Then he made a mistake....granted....we all make mistakes. But he wants to be hard about it and basically say "fuck you giants I don't owe you shit". Which is true...he isn't under contract.
But don't come now with hat in hand playing the victim. I bet you if he flew up here the week after July 4th and played the good soldier the Giants would have given him at least 1/3 of his franchise money. They did it with Chad Jones.
Basically. JPP acted like an asshole and now the Giants will treat him like one. He either is retarded, got bad advice, or both.
Cant say I agree. Hankins played well I thought.