I'm just getting to halftime, (work took me out for live action but I am watching the replay) and I noticed something that I had to back and rewatch a few times. As he did in his first go round, Spags will use fronts you don't typically see if the pass rush is not working well with the base 4-3 and tonight was one of those nights. I noticed 21 down in the box a LOT which was my first clue, then I noticed George Selvie playing the inside shoulder of the RT with combinations of Bromley, Ellis, Kuhn, Hamilton beside him playing what amounted to a shaded 3-4 with the NT off set on the guard side instead of head up over the center.
Collins was usually lined up on the right and over DaMontre Moore in a support role. Moore was playing 3-4 OLB, or technically an elephant role sort of in stand up and 3 pt stance situations. That little wrinkle enabled a lot of gaps to open up for some good penetration (heh, penetration) inside and it's not brute force. One one play in particular, Selvie was at RDE (or RDT really) and Bromley and I think Kuhn stunted left at the snap, which took the guard with them and Selvie was in the B gap before you could say "Markus Kuhn stinks".
As the half wears on, I see more of it, with Selvie at LDE shaded inside again. The OL is forced to slide protection that way and it's opening up Moore and Collins on the backside to make plays against the run and get some heat on the QB. I'll continue watching and add to this, but with Selvie's size and no real NT types, we're kind of tossing out a 4-3/3-4 hybrid and using Collins as a LB/S hybrid on downs where we blitz or are clearly expecting run. Selvie is playing extremely well, holding the POA and getting good penetration, this may have some potential. It won't solve our back end issues but the wrinkles up front (that sounds gross I know) seem to be giving the dynamic players we have in Moore and Collins some room to operate and get some heat on the QB. Very interesting.
Last Read on Ravens defense - ( New Window )
thanks BB - it is a good read.
Selvie - Hankins - Jenkins
(Bromley) (Kuhn) (Bromley)
(Odi)Moore - ???? - Beason/McClain - Thomas(Odi)
Prince - Collins Cooper/Brown - DRC
Maybe Joey or B can blow this up or refine it?
No it's because they are going to use B in ALB's idea about having him drop to Safety because he is so used to being pushed back there :-)
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Kuhn stays is because they are going to roll out a variant of the 3-4 defense taking advantage of the speed of Moore and Odi outside? So Ellis and Kuhn are the pseudo NTs with Bromley, Hankins, Selvie and Jenkins as DEs.
Selvie - Hankins - Jenkins
(Bromley) (Kuhn) (Bromley)
(Odi)Moore - ???? - Beason/McClain - Thomas(Odi)
Prince - Collins Cooper/Brown - DRC
Maybe Joey or B can blow this up or refine it?
No it's because they are going to use B in ALB's idea about having him drop to Safety because he is so used to being pushed back there :-)
He does have quick feet.
Good stuff, Joey. I noticed Collins was up in the box often, and he was having fun wreaking some havoc, that's his game, and it should be contagious.
Frankly, the game was a scrimmage and I wasn't paying attention, how did the DL look?
Frankly, the game was a scrimmage and I wasn't paying attention, how did the DL look? [/quote]
Selvie had two sacks, Moore with an Osi-esque strip sacks and a few pressures that helped feed some sacks. Ellis has a pressure up the middle.
Fun, but this was against second and third stringers.
I'm excited about this defense. If it's middle of the pack that will be an improvement over every defense we've had since 2008. It's not a high bar that needs to be achieved.
And when he finally does make a play, the ecstatic celebrating is something I can really do without.
Let them play and grow!
i'm of the belief we were gonna get a DPOY-type year from JPP under spags
i'm of the belief we were gonna get a DPOY-type year from JPP under spags
JPP is a perfect player for Spags.
But it takes two to tango. JPP wasn't coming into this season focused our likely in shape even before he blew his hand up.
Joey has pointed out the biggest change since he left: his 34 looks. accurately compared to Belichick but of course picked up in BAL and how they manufacture pressure, use Terrell Suggs.
speaking of herzlich - he looks like a different guy in this scheme. he played a strong game and looks like a physical force
Pay no attention to radar - he's just being a fucking moron, as usual...
Guys like Herzlich and Kennard who are heady players can make up for a lack of great burst with skills like that. It's not a cure all, but it will give teams fits to prepare for. What you are doing here is basically making a team prepare for anything and making them guess right to run a play well. The easiest way to think about it honestly is to harken back to Tecmo Bowl. You pick to defend run or pass and if you guess right its game over for the offense and if you guess wrong it's game over for you. If you guess what play it will be, i.e, a run or a pass and defend as such you have a chance to succeed if you have better players or someone makes a play.
What it boils down to is, expect big plays against us, but expect big plays from the defense too. Whereas Fewell was playing the Tampa 2 way of keeping everything in front of you being content to let teams march down the field, Spags prefers to attack the offense and force them to make a play.
What I saw last night out of our defenders is something I haven't seen in two years...excitement and effort and it was preseason. One of the biggest untold or unknown things about defense, is that when you sit in the film room and your coach shows you something and tells you how to beat it...then it appears in a game and you know what to do, you get excited when you see the alignment and the play unfolds and you've seen it before. It's a feeling that gives you confidence in your coach, yourself and your teammates and it can build into something special. Confidence comes from preparation, I have always believed that and always will. Defense is a mentality more than anything and having an attacking mentality where you want to wreck the offense's plans makes it way more fun to play. I don't expect it to get instantly and if things start poorly we could tank but I really think Spags is a guy who can get people excited about playing defense with things like this.
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players we didnt think were good will turn out to be better than they looked under Fewell
i'm of the belief we were gonna get a DPOY-type year from JPP under spags
JPP is a perfect player for Spags.
But it takes two to tango. JPP wasn't coming into this season focused our likely in shape even before he blew his hand up.
You're pulling this out of your ass. YOu're a great poster, but all reports prior to July 4th was that JPP was in great shape.
He'd be a hamstring injury waiting to happen, at best.
The one thing I didn't see (admittedly i didn't watch the entire game b/c of college ball last night) enough of were stunts, twists, delays and drops. Now I say this with the caveat that that could fly in the face of gap discipline to a point - but based on down and distance and situation I'd like to see more of these techniques integrated into the line play.
I noticed Kuhn playing outside shade on the C during the first preseason game slanted in the A Gap but it was highly ineffective. I'm not sure if the LB'er scheme was to play base but that's what it seemed. Last night was definitely different and you had to notice far more aggressiveness from the LB'ers and S in the box.
It seems that the Giants relative lack of stoutness (apparently that's a word) from their 1-3 technique guys lends itself to supporting this type of hybrid outside the traditional base 4-3. It's really a 5-2 look at the snap with the box safety and it allows you to come out of it to remain multiple. I like it a lot.
Now all that said, you're looking at a counter with play action, screens, and teams that have a good pass-catching TE - plus teams with athletic OLines that will focus on getting out in space and using the field. It'll be interesting to see the gameplanning from opposing offenses.
Great post Joey.
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In comment 12453600 area junc said:
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players we didnt think were good will turn out to be better than they looked under Fewell
i'm of the belief we were gonna get a DPOY-type year from JPP under spags
JPP is a perfect player for Spags.
But it takes two to tango. JPP wasn't coming into this season focused our likely in shape even before he blew his hand up.
You're pulling this out of your ass. YOu're a great poster, but all reports prior to July 4th was that JPP was in great shape.
Great shape doesn't mean football shape...
The one thing I didn't see (admittedly i didn't watch the entire game b/c of college ball last night) enough of were stunts, twists, delays and drops. Now I say this with the caveat that that could fly in the face of gap discipline to a point - but based on down and distance and situation I'd like to see more of these techniques integrated into the line play.
I noticed Kuhn playing outside shade on the C during the first preseason game slanted in the A Gap but it was highly ineffective. I'm not sure if the LB'er scheme was to play base but that's what it seemed. Last night was definitely different and you had to notice far more aggressiveness from the LB'ers and S in the box.
It seems that the Giants relative lack of stoutness (apparently that's a word) from their 1-3 technique guys lends itself to supporting this type of hybrid outside the traditional base 4-3. It's really a 5-2 look at the snap with the box safety and it allows you to come out of it to remain multiple. I like it a lot.
Now all that said, you're looking at a counter with play action, screens, and teams that have a good pass-catching TE - plus teams with athletic OLines that will focus on getting out in space and using the field. It'll be interesting to see the gameplanning from opposing offenses.
Great post Joey.
Joey - do you think the Giants LBs will have too much guesswork on unclear down and distance situations that may open up PA? Particularly the SAM?
Joey - do you think the Giants LBs will have too much guesswork on unclear down and distance situations that may open up PA? Particularly the SAM?
I'm interested to see this D against big sets and 3/4 wides.
Spags spent a lot of time with Urban Meyer learning how to defend the read and spread.
The big questions - does he have the "horses" ? He may not, especially on the D-line.
And how long will it take them to figure all this out. It's good to have Beason, he very smart. The eventual answer is Unga (who I hope they don't cut) - that kid fits Spags style (great gap shooter).
Maybe a sticky through the Cowboys game??