That doesn't change this is the right football move.
#1 - Performance - Weatherford has been underperforming the past few years. Enough.
#2 - Financial - The new punter is young + cheap
#3 - Youth - This is a young man's game. Strength, health are more likely to be found in young players.
Let's thank Steve for everything he's done on and off the field. It was a privilege having him on the team.
but I'm not sure what Flaherty was supposed to do with the dreck he was handed the last couple years. Failing to get bums like J.D. Walton, John Jerry, James Brewer, and Brandon Mosley to play well is hardly a coaching failure. It's a failure to be a miracle worker.
And unless he was spotting Beatty in the weight room, I can't see how he can be blamed for that loss.
The big knock on Flowers coming out of Miami was his technique. Some scouts and analysts really hammered Flowers for it. In the limited preseason sample I've seen, Flowers' technique looks considerably better than lousy. I think Flaherty has been doing a very good job with Flowers, who really wasn't supposed to be the left tackle in Week 1.
Flaherty is not and has not been the problem with the offensive line. The problem with the line is that Reese signed our aging elite line of 2011 to contracts that were way to long and for too much money so they couldn't move on from them.
The guys brought into replace them were not any good either. Flasher try has always been able to get the best out his lineman.
This smells like Matt Dodge, how Is this remotely similar to drafting Dodge? They are both punters and both went to SEC schools, please connect the dots for me
but I'm not sure what Flaherty was supposed to do with the dreck he was handed the last couple years. Failing to get bums like J.D. Walton, John Jerry, James Brewer, and Brandon Mosley to play well is hardly a coaching failure. It's a failure to be a miracle worker.
And unless he was spotting Beatty in the weight room, I can't see how he can be blamed for that loss.
The big knock on Flowers coming out of Miami was his technique. Some scouts and analysts really hammered Flowers for it. In the limited preseason sample I've seen, Flowers' technique looks considerably better than lousy. I think Flaherty has been doing a very good job with Flowers, who really wasn't supposed to be the left tackle in Week 1.
Flaherty is not and has not been the problem with the offensive line. The problem with the line is that Reese signed our aging elite line of 2011 to contracts that were way to long and for too much money so they couldn't move on from them.
The guys brought into replace them were not any good either. Flasher try has always been able to get the best out his lineman.
Again, you can't pin this 100% on Reese, because there could be many variables why wecan't develop mid rounders at OL. Coughlin is at the pro days watching workouts too. He definitely gets input. I hate to break it to you, but in all likelihood, Reese gets to pick his coach if things go south this year.
Can someone provide some stats that shows his lack of performance here
If this team misses the playoffs and fires the coaching staff (highly unlikely because loyalty), then the FO should go, too. The entire franchise would need a complete reboot from top to bottom.
You can't just look at a vague snapshot of stats and get a good idea of how well he's performing. Weatherford was outkicking coverage, and punting it down the middle of the field.
This guy must of sucked for most of his career here
but how/why do someone's directional punting skills go downhill? I'd expect leg strength to decline, but if directional placement is chronically bad, I can only think it's due to lack of practice. Which doesn't sound like Weatherford.
but how/why do someone's directional punting skills go downhill? I'd expect leg strength to decline, but if directional placement is chronically bad, I can only think it's due to lack of practice. Which doesn't sound like Weatherford.
It's a good question. I wish Kickerpa would pop in to address it
Hopefully he has a nice career in the media after the NFL. Fun guy and his kicking in the playoffs helped win huge games. Up there with Jennings and Landeta as all time Giants.
interesting piece of information. If true another example of too much ownership in the the football business. Acorn falling not far from the tree. The George Young structure is no more it seems.
if Wing is a questionable move or not (again, releasing Steve was the right move), there are plenty of others from last season that make him questionable at best right now.
No one is saying they know more than anyone else. Calling it a questionable move isn't shitting on it, either. It's a fair assessment on what he's produced in his short career thus far. Jesus.
some of you guys are being blinded by past memories. Weatherford hasn't been very good for a few years now. His directional punting skills have plummeted.
Yes, but why are we reacting now at the end of pre-season with one week to go before real games start? Seriously?
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
He's a punter. All he has to do is kick the ball and hold.
Eric, I realize that and he may well be a good punter and a great fit for us. The thing that troubles me is how this organization is slow to react in a dinosaur fashion, recklessly with important functions like this. If they knew Feagles and Weatherford were turning the corner why wait to the last minute to do something about. You can say the same thing about the oline with Snee and other names. I tells me that we do not have good grasp on talent and how to manage it (churn, replenish). Do we really want to see this guy f up our opening game with Dallas in important conference games because he has no time with our snapper or system?
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
There aren't "sure thing" players available or sitting on the wire at this stage is really the point I'm getting at. You could call any acquisition the same thing as each will have some sort of associated risk of not panning out. It's not saying much.
The Giants apparently seem to think Wing has upside and can be groomed into something worthwhile. They may well be wrong as they thought the same about Matt Dodge but we don't know yet either way.
Weatherford was certainly not worth what he was making recently and if we were going to make the decision to move on from him, this was the type of player we were going to be left with. Posting a chart of yards per punt numbers side by side really tells you nothing with no context.
He's a punter. All he has to do is kick the ball and hold.
While I think the Giants made the right call here, as long as people remember Matt Dodge, they can argue that kicking the ball and holding can be a big deal.
Weatherford actually had a higher gross avg last year
compared to Wing. 45.5 vs 43.7. Though Wing's net was slightly better 38.8 vs 38.6.
This year its a wash but next year we save over $3,000,000 for likely better production. If Wing is a long term answer at the position, its a good move.
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
There aren't "sure thing" players available or sitting on the wire at this stage is really the point I'm getting at. You could call any acquisition the same thing as each will have some sort of associated risk of not panning out. It's not saying much.
The Giants apparently seem to think Wing has upside and can be groomed into something worthwhile. They may well be wrong as they thought the same about Matt Dodge but we don't know yet either way.
Weatherford was certainly not worth what he was making recently and if we were going to make the decision to move on from him, this was the type of player we were going to be left with. Posting a chart of yards per punt numbers side by side really tells you nothing with no context.
I agree with pretty much all of that. *shrug* Never said it was a bad move (Wing, that is). He could and might turn out to be a very good punter. He's certainly still young enough (24). And I'm more than fine with moving on from Weatherford. This isn't me wishing we kept him or anything. It was time. My only point was I'm not 100% sold on Wing being the guy. Now, you raise a good point when you say practically anyone they sign at this point is going to be "questionable" because we're a week away from Week 1. That is a fair point. Since they seemed intent on releasing Weatherford (which again, was the right move), I just wish we had someone who we knew could be decent for us this season. I hope Wing is that guy. Just a tad worrisome going into the regular season with almost a complete unknown at Punter. That was my only point. I should've worded it better.
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
There aren't "sure thing" players available or sitting on the wire at this stage is really the point I'm getting at. You could call any acquisition the same thing as each will have some sort of associated risk of not panning out. It's not saying much.
The Giants apparently seem to think Wing has upside and can be groomed into something worthwhile. They may well be wrong as they thought the same about Matt Dodge but we don't know yet either way.
Weatherford was certainly not worth what he was making recently and if we were going to make the decision to move on from him, this was the type of player we were going to be left with. Posting a chart of yards per punt numbers side by side really tells you nothing with no context.
I agree with pretty much all of that. *shrug* Never said it was a bad move (Wing, that is). He could and might turn out to be a very good punter. He's certainly still young enough (24). And I'm more than fine with moving on from Weatherford. This isn't me wishing we kept him or anything. It was time. My only point was I'm not 100% sold on Wing being the guy. Now, you raise a good point when you say practically anyone they sign at this point is going to be "questionable" because we're a week away from Week 1. That is a fair point. Since they seemed intent on releasing Weatherford (which again, was the right move), I just wish we had someone who we knew could be decent for us this season. I hope Wing is that guy. Just a tad worrisome going into the regular season with almost a complete unknown at Punter. That was my only point. I should've worded it better.
All good. Personally, I was a little surprised they didn't bring Brandon Fields in. I have two friends who are big Dolphins fans and they said the team loves this new kid Matt Darr enough that they were willing to cut ties with Fields but seemed to think Fields had been quite good. (He was a pro bowler in 2013, I don't know how much stock to really put in that but he must have been at least "good")
That would have been a little more of a "sure thing" but it's possible Fields was trending in the wrong direction or that the Giants felt he'd be looking for money that they weren't looking to invest in the position at this juncture.
In any event, Wing is the guy now. We'll just have to hope for the best.
He's a punter. All he has to do is kick the ball and hold.
Eric, I realize that and he may well be a good punter and a great fit for us. The thing that troubles me is how this organization is slow to react in a dinosaur fashion, recklessly with important functions like this. If they knew Feagles and Weatherford were turning the corner why wait to the last minute to do something about. You can say the same thing about the oline with Snee and other names. I tells me that we do not have good grasp on talent and how to manage it (churn, replenish). Do we really want to see this guy f up our opening game with Dallas in important conference games because he has no time with our snapper or system?
There was another punter in camp competing for the job and the coach was noticeably critical and demanding of Weatherford. Not sure why you are reading that as if the team did nothing with the position.
Wing will have a normal NFL practice week worth of time to get acclimated. He's a punter. It's not a matter of 'system fit'. Teams change kickers and punters in season all the time.
some of you guys are being blinded by past memories. Weatherford hasn't been very good for a few years now. His directional punting skills have plummeted.
#1 - Performance - Weatherford has been underperforming the past few years. Enough.
#2 - Financial - The new punter is young + cheap
#3 - Youth - This is a young man's game. Strength, health are more likely to be found in young players.
Let's thank Steve for everything he's done on and off the field. It was a privilege having him on the team.
And Let's move on.
And unless he was spotting Beatty in the weight room, I can't see how he can be blamed for that loss.
The big knock on Flowers coming out of Miami was his technique. Some scouts and analysts really hammered Flowers for it. In the limited preseason sample I've seen, Flowers' technique looks considerably better than lousy. I think Flaherty has been doing a very good job with Flowers, who really wasn't supposed to be the left tackle in Week 1.
Flaherty is not and has not been the problem with the offensive line. The problem with the line is that Reese signed our aging elite line of 2011 to contracts that were way to long and for too much money so they couldn't move on from them.
The guys brought into replace them were not any good either. Flasher try has always been able to get the best out his lineman.
Quote:
but I'm not sure what Flaherty was supposed to do with the dreck he was handed the last couple years. Failing to get bums like J.D. Walton, John Jerry, James Brewer, and Brandon Mosley to play well is hardly a coaching failure. It's a failure to be a miracle worker.
And unless he was spotting Beatty in the weight room, I can't see how he can be blamed for that loss.
The big knock on Flowers coming out of Miami was his technique. Some scouts and analysts really hammered Flowers for it. In the limited preseason sample I've seen, Flowers' technique looks considerably better than lousy. I think Flaherty has been doing a very good job with Flowers, who really wasn't supposed to be the left tackle in Week 1.
Flaherty is not and has not been the problem with the offensive line. The problem with the line is that Reese signed our aging elite line of 2011 to contracts that were way to long and for too much money so they couldn't move on from them.
The guys brought into replace them were not any good either. Flasher try has always been able to get the best out his lineman.
Again, you can't pin this 100% on Reese, because there could be many variables why wecan't develop mid rounders at OL. Coughlin is at the pro days watching workouts too. He definitely gets input. I hate to break it to you, but in all likelihood, Reese gets to pick his coach if things go south this year.
"The Jets knew what they were doing when they cut him. Look how many years it took for the Giants to get rid of the bum?"
Derp
LOL
2014
PIT
16 61 43.7 74 2667 0 4 6.6 20 32.8 27 220 8.1 38.8
Weatherford
2014 Regular Season 80 45.5 71 3640 6 7.5 25 31.3 37 391 10.6 38.6
Wing average 2014 43.7
Weatherford 2014 45.5
Wing average 2014 43.7
Weatherford 2014 45.5
It's not. He's a big unknown at best, right now.
Quote:
How is this a good move ?
Wing average 2014 43.7
Weatherford 2014 45.5
It's not. He's a big unknown at best, right now.
thanks Dave.
Wing average 2014 43.7
Weatherford 2014 45.5
You can't just look at a vague snapshot of stats and get a good idea of how well he's performing. Weatherford was outkicking coverage, and punting it down the middle of the field.
2003 10 16 90 3641 59 1 40.5
2004 17 16 74 3069 55 2 41.5
2005 18 16 73 3070 56 0 42.1
2006 18 16 77 3098 54 0 40.2
2007 18 16 71 2865 60 1 40.4
2008 18 16 64 2814 61 0 44.0
2009 18 16 64 2604 59 0 40.7 1
The one we have sucks big time
Oh well. He did a good job here, let's hope WIng is a suitable replacement.
It's a good question. I wish Kickerpa would pop in to address it
He hasn't been good for quite some time, but the personality stuff seems to matter more.
Kuhn should get on twitter.
@art_stapleton 6m6 minutes ago
No, I don't believe that was a factor. If they were concerned with that, release would've happened a while ago.
Yes, but why are we reacting now at the end of pre-season with one week to go before real games start? Seriously?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
This can't be possible, can it? Do the Giants get major endorsement revenue from Head and Shoulders?
Eric, I realize that and he may well be a good punter and a great fit for us. The thing that troubles me is how this organization is slow to react in a dinosaur fashion, recklessly with important functions like this. If they knew Feagles and Weatherford were turning the corner why wait to the last minute to do something about. You can say the same thing about the oline with Snee and other names. I tells me that we do not have good grasp on talent and how to manage it (churn, replenish). Do we really want to see this guy f up our opening game with Dallas in important conference games because he has no time with our snapper or system?
Quote:
Do we really want to see this guy f up our opening game with Dallas in important conference games because he has no time with our snapper or system?
Shit... I would be happy if the game is that close where it comes down to one snap/hold.
Quote:
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
There aren't "sure thing" players available or sitting on the wire at this stage is really the point I'm getting at. You could call any acquisition the same thing as each will have some sort of associated risk of not panning out. It's not saying much.
The Giants apparently seem to think Wing has upside and can be groomed into something worthwhile. They may well be wrong as they thought the same about Matt Dodge but we don't know yet either way.
Weatherford was certainly not worth what he was making recently and if we were going to make the decision to move on from him, this was the type of player we were going to be left with. Posting a chart of yards per punt numbers side by side really tells you nothing with no context.
While I think the Giants made the right call here, as long as people remember Matt Dodge, they can argue that kicking the ball and holding can be a big deal.
This year its a wash but next year we save over $3,000,000 for likely better production. If Wing is a long term answer at the position, its a good move.
Quote:
In comment 12454023 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
There aren't "sure thing" players available or sitting on the wire at this stage is really the point I'm getting at. You could call any acquisition the same thing as each will have some sort of associated risk of not panning out. It's not saying much.
The Giants apparently seem to think Wing has upside and can be groomed into something worthwhile. They may well be wrong as they thought the same about Matt Dodge but we don't know yet either way.
Weatherford was certainly not worth what he was making recently and if we were going to make the decision to move on from him, this was the type of player we were going to be left with. Posting a chart of yards per punt numbers side by side really tells you nothing with no context.
I agree with pretty much all of that. *shrug* Never said it was a bad move (Wing, that is). He could and might turn out to be a very good punter. He's certainly still young enough (24). And I'm more than fine with moving on from Weatherford. This isn't me wishing we kept him or anything. It was time. My only point was I'm not 100% sold on Wing being the guy. Now, you raise a good point when you say practically anyone they sign at this point is going to be "questionable" because we're a week away from Week 1. That is a fair point. Since they seemed intent on releasing Weatherford (which again, was the right move), I just wish we had someone who we knew could be decent for us this season. I hope Wing is that guy. Just a tad worrisome going into the regular season with almost a complete unknown at Punter. That was my only point. I should've worded it better.
Quote:
In comment 12454038 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
In comment 12454023 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
So who could we have brought in that, by your definition, wouldn't have been "questionable at best" ?
Better question, with what he's produced thus far in his career, how is it not a questionable move at the moment? Not even saying it's the worst move evar! or anything of that nature.
There aren't "sure thing" players available or sitting on the wire at this stage is really the point I'm getting at. You could call any acquisition the same thing as each will have some sort of associated risk of not panning out. It's not saying much.
The Giants apparently seem to think Wing has upside and can be groomed into something worthwhile. They may well be wrong as they thought the same about Matt Dodge but we don't know yet either way.
Weatherford was certainly not worth what he was making recently and if we were going to make the decision to move on from him, this was the type of player we were going to be left with. Posting a chart of yards per punt numbers side by side really tells you nothing with no context.
I agree with pretty much all of that. *shrug* Never said it was a bad move (Wing, that is). He could and might turn out to be a very good punter. He's certainly still young enough (24). And I'm more than fine with moving on from Weatherford. This isn't me wishing we kept him or anything. It was time. My only point was I'm not 100% sold on Wing being the guy. Now, you raise a good point when you say practically anyone they sign at this point is going to be "questionable" because we're a week away from Week 1. That is a fair point. Since they seemed intent on releasing Weatherford (which again, was the right move), I just wish we had someone who we knew could be decent for us this season. I hope Wing is that guy. Just a tad worrisome going into the regular season with almost a complete unknown at Punter. That was my only point. I should've worded it better.
All good. Personally, I was a little surprised they didn't bring Brandon Fields in. I have two friends who are big Dolphins fans and they said the team loves this new kid Matt Darr enough that they were willing to cut ties with Fields but seemed to think Fields had been quite good. (He was a pro bowler in 2013, I don't know how much stock to really put in that but he must have been at least "good")
That would have been a little more of a "sure thing" but it's possible Fields was trending in the wrong direction or that the Giants felt he'd be looking for money that they weren't looking to invest in the position at this juncture.
In any event, Wing is the guy now. We'll just have to hope for the best.
He hasn't been good for quite some time, but the personality stuff seems to matter more.
Kuhn should get on twitter.
E- Hit nail on the head! Kuhn should get on twitter... LOL!!!
Quote:
He's a punter. All he has to do is kick the ball and hold.
Eric, I realize that and he may well be a good punter and a great fit for us. The thing that troubles me is how this organization is slow to react in a dinosaur fashion, recklessly with important functions like this. If they knew Feagles and Weatherford were turning the corner why wait to the last minute to do something about. You can say the same thing about the oline with Snee and other names. I tells me that we do not have good grasp on talent and how to manage it (churn, replenish). Do we really want to see this guy f up our opening game with Dallas in important conference games because he has no time with our snapper or system?
There was another punter in camp competing for the job and the coach was noticeably critical and demanding of Weatherford. Not sure why you are reading that as if the team did nothing with the position.
Wing will have a normal NFL practice week worth of time to get acclimated. He's a punter. It's not a matter of 'system fit'. Teams change kickers and punters in season all the time.
well said eric, its the truth