GB liked to use two FBs or at least that reverse wishbone formation a lot when McAdoo was there. Id rather have an extra FB on the field lead blocking than one of our current TEs blocking. I wish we were able to get Scott Chandler.
Donnell and his fumbles worry me more than anything on our offense not named Newhouse. With all our weapons at WR and RB (particularly Vereen underneath), I'd prefer to just have some "6th OL" type at TE.
two other random observations...John Jerry was even struggling on run blocks in the second half against back-ups.
Zak DeOssie was all over the field on special teams.
Jerry can't run block. Robinson was another one of Jerry's reach picks. He came from a five wide offense at Cincinnati that didn't throw the ball much to the TE. He got some buzz late before the combine IIRC because of terrific workout numbers. We have a penchant unfortunately for taking these types of players in the middle rounds. I get that a lot of fourth round picks don't work out. But we have had very little success on day three since 2008. DeOssie is still getting it done.
One reason that Robinson is still around is the same reason that other guys like Hosley and Kuhn are still around. Reese just won't give up on most of his draft picks until their rookie contracts are up, particularly if they were picked in the higher rounds.
He is just too stubborn to admit that they made mistakes with these guys. This seems to be an inherited trait from Accorsi, who also did it at times.
If there is even a shred of a reason to hang on to them, like they were dinged up once or they play a position where they don't have much talent anyway, they stick year after year. And those guys stink year after year.
The likelihood that any of these guys will turn into a player after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing at all is just about zero.
Note that this is not the same as hanging on to guys who flash some talent early on but are inconsistent or injury-prone like Damontre Moore or Cooper Taylor respectively.
GB liked to use two FBs or at least that reverse wishbone formation a lot when McAdoo was there. Id rather have an extra FB on the field lead blocking than one of our current TEs blocking. I wish we were able to get Scott Chandler.
McAdoo was the was the TE coach there for 5 years, I wonder if he see TE potential in Whitlock, he's short, but he's a vicious blocker.
In Belichick/Parcells terms Whitlock is a "football player" he's a guy you try and find a place for.
One reason that Robinson is still around is the same reason that other guys like Hosley and Kuhn are still around. Reese just won't give up on most of his draft picks until their rookie contracts are up, particularly if they were picked in the higher rounds.
He is just too stubborn to admit that they made mistakes with these guys. This seems to be an inherited trait from Accorsi, who also did it at times.
If there is even a shred of a reason to hang on to them, like they were dinged up once or they play a position where they don't have much talent anyway, they stick year after year. And those guys stink year after year.
The likelihood that any of these guys will turn into a player after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing at all is just about zero.
Note that this is not the same as hanging on to guys who flash some talent early on but are inconsistent or injury-prone like Damontre Moore or Cooper Taylor respectively.
Totally agree.
RE: So, does this increase the chances of keeping Whitlock?
GB liked to use two FBs or at least that reverse wishbone formation a lot when McAdoo was there. Id rather have an extra FB on the field lead blocking than one of our current TEs blocking. I wish we were able to get Scott Chandler.
I will be willing to bet that Whitlock can play TE better than Robinson
and cut the JPP of TE? I will believe it when I see it.
^^^ This. Sadly, Jerry's ego is stubbornly keeping this wasted roster spot. AR should should have been cut one year ago.
I hate when the Giants coddle draft picks who just about everyone on BBI knows is useless. BBI posters sometimes say stupid things about a player, but when you have 90% of BBI shaking their heads, then you know the Giants are messing up.
I really doubt there's a place for him, given how badly they need actual talent. A 5'10 TE? DT? No, and I'm not seeing enough special teams ability from him. They're doing all they can to find a reason to keep him, though.
One thing about Whitlock - he really brings it when he blocks. Seems like it is really unpleasant being on the receiving end of those blocks.
I agree about the 5'10" TE thing, but, final cuts is supposed to put the best 53 players on the team. I wonder how much of the TE route tree they'd have to trim off if they kept him.
It will be tough to find a spot for him, but, given how badly this team has struggled in the run game and watching him run block, just seems like a shame to let him go.
One reason that Robinson is still around is the same reason that other guys like Hosley and Kuhn are still around. Reese just won't give up on most of his draft picks until their rookie contracts are up, particularly if they were picked in the higher rounds.
He is just too stubborn to admit that they made mistakes with these guys. This seems to be an inherited trait from Accorsi, who also did it at times.
If there is even a shred of a reason to hang on to them, like they were dinged up once or they play a position where they don't have much talent anyway, they stick year after year. And those guys stink year after year.
The likelihood that any of these guys will turn into a player after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing at all is just about zero.
Note that this is not the same as hanging on to guys who flash some talent early on but are inconsistent or injury-prone like Damontre Moore or Cooper Taylor respectively.
of these guys we draft are projects so when they show nothing in year 1 or 2 that's not a huge surprise. They're raw, just need more time, will bust out any minute now etc. etc. Next thing you know it's year 4 and everyone finally realizes the guy is a stiff which the coaching staff probably knew in year 1.
most effective runner in the pre-season, slithers through holes that Jennings and Williams don't see; catches the ball out of the backfield; solid contributor to ST
like to find a way to keep Whitlock, maybe by only going with two TEs. I agree that we should keep Unga. Guys like Beason and McClain should be on the bubble IMO.
to have one TE who could block a darn. Maybe it's a coaching thing, I don't know.
Also, I'm not sure it's primarily stubbornness or ego that causes the Giants to hold on to some draft picks throughout their rookie contract. I suspect some of it is a financial consideration too. Rookie contracts are relatively cheap in general and thus the opportunity cost of keeping the draftee on team as opposed to replacing with a free agent is somewhat offset by the higher financial cost of that free agent.
For example, the average 3-4 rd pick has an annual cap hit of between $500,000 - $600,000 (lower rd picks obviously are less). The minimum vet salary with 4 yrs vested is $745,000, and going up from there to $900,000 or more with additional yrs of service. Any signing bonus paid would increase the cap hit difference even more.
They draft guys as projects, figuring they'll need 2-3 years. Projects are just that: projects. They're not close to ready now, but they're drafted for the future. Some of them get a year and then it becomes apparent they aren't developing, and they're gone (Eric Herman). Some of them get two or three years.
The problem isn't that the team isn't giving up these guys too soon -- if they're projects, you have to give them time. The problem is that too many of the projects just are turning out to be duds. The Giants need more guys like Victor Cruz and Larry Donnell, and fewer guys like Mitch Petrus and James Brewer, who just wash out.
Markus Kuhn, I don't even know where he fits in. He seems to be in both categories at once, depending on who you ask.
Fingers crossed, Kennard and Davis are guys like that.
That is: Late round guys who turn out to be players, not duds.
Fells is a waste of 3rd te roster space. He doesn't excel at anything and will be 32 in a couple of weeks. I'm inclined to keep Robinson because maybe by some miracle he gets better. Fells is just going to be getting worse.
Dutch
Zak DeOssie was all over the field on special teams.
There's no future/money in it.
It's more amazing that he's turned out to be a shitty blocker.
Zak DeOssie was all over the field on special teams.
Jerry can't run block. Robinson was another one of Jerry's reach picks. He came from a five wide offense at Cincinnati that didn't throw the ball much to the TE. He got some buzz late before the combine IIRC because of terrific workout numbers. We have a penchant unfortunately for taking these types of players in the middle rounds. I get that a lot of fourth round picks don't work out. But we have had very little success on day three since 2008. DeOssie is still getting it done.
My most intriguing player on waivers so far is TE Ben Koyack (Jags 7th rd pick) - primarily an in-line blocker but has moved around #Giants
He is just too stubborn to admit that they made mistakes with these guys. This seems to be an inherited trait from Accorsi, who also did it at times.
If there is even a shred of a reason to hang on to them, like they were dinged up once or they play a position where they don't have much talent anyway, they stick year after year. And those guys stink year after year.
The likelihood that any of these guys will turn into a player after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing at all is just about zero.
Note that this is not the same as hanging on to guys who flash some talent early on but are inconsistent or injury-prone like Damontre Moore or Cooper Taylor respectively.
McAdoo was the was the TE coach there for 5 years, I wonder if he see TE potential in Whitlock, he's short, but he's a vicious blocker.
In Belichick/Parcells terms Whitlock is a "football player" he's a guy you try and find a place for.
He is just too stubborn to admit that they made mistakes with these guys. This seems to be an inherited trait from Accorsi, who also did it at times.
If there is even a shred of a reason to hang on to them, like they were dinged up once or they play a position where they don't have much talent anyway, they stick year after year. And those guys stink year after year.
The likelihood that any of these guys will turn into a player after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing at all is just about zero.
Note that this is not the same as hanging on to guys who flash some talent early on but are inconsistent or injury-prone like Damontre Moore or Cooper Taylor respectively.
Totally agree.
I will be willing to bet that Whitlock can play TE better than Robinson
^^^ This. Sadly, Jerry's ego is stubbornly keeping this wasted roster spot. AR should should have been cut one year ago.
I hate when the Giants coddle draft picks who just about everyone on BBI knows is useless. BBI posters sometimes say stupid things about a player, but when you have 90% of BBI shaking their heads, then you know the Giants are messing up.
I agree about the 5'10" TE thing, but, final cuts is supposed to put the best 53 players on the team. I wonder how much of the TE route tree they'd have to trim off if they kept him.
It will be tough to find a spot for him, but, given how badly this team has struggled in the run game and watching him run block, just seems like a shame to let him go.
Might be a good PS player, Hyno insurance.
I'll also be pissed if they let Hart go.
He is just too stubborn to admit that they made mistakes with these guys. This seems to be an inherited trait from Accorsi, who also did it at times.
If there is even a shred of a reason to hang on to them, like they were dinged up once or they play a position where they don't have much talent anyway, they stick year after year. And those guys stink year after year.
The likelihood that any of these guys will turn into a player after a couple of years of showing absolutely nothing at all is just about zero.
Note that this is not the same as hanging on to guys who flash some talent early on but are inconsistent or injury-prone like Damontre Moore or Cooper Taylor respectively.
Couldn't agree more.
I would keep 2 and keep Whitlock
Also, I'm not sure it's primarily stubbornness or ego that causes the Giants to hold on to some draft picks throughout their rookie contract. I suspect some of it is a financial consideration too. Rookie contracts are relatively cheap in general and thus the opportunity cost of keeping the draftee on team as opposed to replacing with a free agent is somewhat offset by the higher financial cost of that free agent.
For example, the average 3-4 rd pick has an annual cap hit of between $500,000 - $600,000 (lower rd picks obviously are less). The minimum vet salary with 4 yrs vested is $745,000, and going up from there to $900,000 or more with additional yrs of service. Any signing bonus paid would increase the cap hit difference even more.
The problem isn't that the team isn't giving up these guys too soon -- if they're projects, you have to give them time. The problem is that too many of the projects just are turning out to be duds. The Giants need more guys like Victor Cruz and Larry Donnell, and fewer guys like Mitch Petrus and James Brewer, who just wash out.
Markus Kuhn, I don't even know where he fits in. He seems to be in both categories at once, depending on who you ask.
Fingers crossed, Kennard and Davis are guys like that.