Only 7 Players Left from 2011 SB Team

by opening day, does that mean no new contract until after the season? A lot of players will not negotiate during a season.

diagnosed with cancer in 2009, now entering the 5th year of an NFL career

if not for the prior illness, would he have had a luke kuechly-brian urlacher type carrer?

I meant

For a 4 year span. Maybe a little more than average but not by much, and some teams have more. We probably had just as much turnover from 03 to 07. There were about 13 players from the 07 team who played on the 11 team. I remember when we played SB 46 hearing the statistic that only 6 Patriots remained from SB 42

after this season, there will only be two left...

the core of that 2011 team, especially on both sides of the line, were drafted or signed by Ernie Accorsi.

The reason we are in the position we are in is because Reese has not been able to transition from that core.

In comment 12458868 Britt in VA said:

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the core of that 2011 team, especially on both sides of the line, were drafted or signed by Ernie Accorsi. The reason we are in the position we are in is because Reese has not been able to transition from that core.

Technically true, but Reese did run the draft in those years for Ernie.

BUt I agree, Reese should be on the hot seat as much and maybe more than Coughlin.

You could say that about 2007, i wouldnt say that about 2011 at all. Reese was responsible for roughly 40 of that 53 man, which is about 80% of the team. He also had a huge hand in Accorsi's picks as he had a prominent role running the draft by the end of Accorsi's tenure. (Look how much better ernie's drafts got at the end). I just dont think its fair whatsoever.

Because they sucked. The D line was led by our best defensive player and dpoy candidate that year in JPP, a Reese pick. Linval Joseph and Canty also Reese players

.

Gave up more pressures than any team in the NFL that year. Couldnt run block for shit. Got Eli hit 20+ times against SF. You have David Diehl playing LT after Beatty got hurt and he was arguably the worst starting LT in the NFL. You had an over the hill Mckenzie at RT who was out of the NFL in 2012 after what he put on film in 2011. Baas and Snee were playing dinged all season long, snee had clearly his worst season as a Giant to that point. The offensive line was the furthest thing from a strength that season

The guys running the draft, give the GM a list of players for options at each pick....and the GM, along with input from coaches(and in some cases, owners), more or less make the final decision.....

So Reese may have provided Accorsi with a list of players, but it was up to Accorsi to make the final decision, and he was responsible for that....none of us have any idea, if Accorsi took Reese's #1 option or not, at each draft position....

Now, Reese has been in that position....he makes the final decisions, and how has that worked out with the turnover on this ball club? Is this roster in better shape since he took over? Didn't he want to know why guys like Jernigan and Robinson, and some of his other "projects", weren't getting the playing time, he thought they should have? And then didn't he cut them?

Sometimes, GM's/coaches get too much of a free pass for a SB, despite missing the playoffs, 5 out of the last 6 years....I repeat.....a SB winner, missing the playoffs 5 out of the last 6 years......

If they make the playoffs this year, all will be forgiven, right?

And if they miss the playoffs 6 out of the last 7 seasons, will the status quo remain? the way the Giants run things, it seems so...

That post is under the premise that Reese doest deserve the lions share of the credit for 2011, 5 seasons after accorsis departure. That position is wildly indefensible by any objective measure when looking at that team.

We won it all that season because Eli was on fire, our WRs were unstoppable, JPP was a freak, & the defense came together had 6 strong games to finish the season.

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In comment 12458921 MarshallOnMontana said:

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Gave up more pressures than any team in the NFL that year. Couldnt run block for shit. Got Eli hit 20+ times against SF. You have David Diehl playing LT after Beatty got hurt and he was arguably the worst starting LT in the NFL. You had an over the hill Mckenzie at RT who was out of the NFL in 2012 after what he put on film in 2011. Baas and Snee were playing dinged all season long, snee had clearly his worst season as a Giant to that point. The offensive line was the furthest thing from a strength that season

All true. Eli's 2011 was otherworldly

The team has steadily been on the decline ever since.

The offensive line and defensive lines were awesome in 2008.

2009 the cracks started showing.

He has been unable to stop the bleeding or transition from it. We've just gotten worse and worst talent wise.

Reese was scouting college kids while Accorsi was there. However, it was so much more than the draft. It was being thrifty with Free Agency as well.

In comment 12459176 Britt in VA said:

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The team has steadily been on the decline ever since. The offensive line and defensive lines were awesome in 2008. 2009 the cracks started showing. He has been unable to stop the bleeding or transition from it. We've just gotten worse and worst talent wise. Reese was scouting college kids while Accorsi was there. However, it was so much more than the draft. It was being thrifty with Free Agency as well.

EA had such a fantastic 2005 offseason.

In comment 12459183 Sean said:

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In comment 12459176 Britt in VA said: Quote: The team has steadily been on the decline ever since. The offensive line and defensive lines were awesome in 2008. 2009 the cracks started showing. He has been unable to stop the bleeding or transition from it. We've just gotten worse and worst talent wise. Reese was scouting college kids while Accorsi was there. However, it was so much more than the draft. It was being thrifty with Free Agency as well. EA had such a fantastic 2005 offseason.

Free agency alone:

McKenzie, Burress, Pierce.

He left us in very good shape.

together than either were or currently are apart.

Ernie's body of work as a Giant before Reese really ascended to his number two was mediocre, at best, and Reese is falling further and further himself the more players from their stretch together exit, the Gettleman types leave, etc.

Snee and Baas finally got healthy and played extremely well. It was a pass blocking line not a run blocking line. Just like the Packers OL the year before, who were an even worse running team than the Giants when you take away Rogers scrambles.

But they both won the SB. So, if you judge an OL by the team's total running yards, they sucked. If you judge by what they did on the field and what they were trying to accomplish, they were very good since you cant win a SB with an "atrocious" OL.

by any means.

However, he clearly built the core that became our two Superbowl teams, that Reese supplemented, and supplemented well, along the way.

That core has long deteriorated, though, and Reese has yet to prove he can build another one.

It starts in the trenches, and we've been pretty bad there ever since 2008.

You can win a SB with almost a terrible anything if your strengths ball out and you get some breaks/well timed hot streaks.

played well in the '11 playoffs? Did you watch the SF game? I think Justin Smith had like 40 sacks in that game alone, & that's a conservative estimate.

Who hadnt won a playoff game in over half a decade and lost their best player to boot. A guy who accounted for about the highest % of his teams offense of anyone in the league, and we are acting like Ernie left him the mid 90s Cowboys. We are acting like Ernie wasnt partly forced out. That was not a ship destined to sail toward a SB on auto pilot. They were a run of the mill fringe playoff team who were strong in some areas and not in others. Reese had a hell of an 07 offseason including one of the best drafts in the history of the league in terms of year 1 returns. That transformed that team into one that had a SB ceiling. We then won a SB with a roster he built almost completely 4 years later and people still want to credit ernie for that over him?

Ernie deserves a lot of credit for 07, but 07 doesnt happen without a home run offseason from Reese. Ernie deserves very little credit for 2011 beyond the fact that he made the Eli deal and from that standpoint will always have his fingers on the team. That was a total organizational move though

credit for Reese's pieces? And by credit I mean heaps of scorn.

The completely dominant lines that we had in 07 and 08 were Accorsi.

It was the last gasp of those lines that helped us in 2011.

Are you trying to tell me that Reese has done a good job rebuilding Accorsi's lines? Specifically the O-line? Because I'd love to hear that argument.

In comment 12459224 MarshallOnMontana said:

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Who hadnt won a playoff game in over half a decade and lost their best player to boot. A guy who accounted for about the highest % of his teams offense of anyone in the league, and we are acting like Ernie left him the mid 90s Cowboys. We are acting like Ernie wasnt partly forced out. That was not a ship destined to sail toward a SB on auto pilot. They were a run of the mill fringe playoff team who were strong in some areas and not in others. Reese had a hell of an 07 offseason including one of the best drafts in the history of the league in terms of year 1 returns. That transformed that team into one that had a SB ceiling. We then won a SB with a roster he built almost completely 4 years later and people still want to credit ernie for that over him? Ernie deserves a lot of credit for 07, but 07 doesnt happen without a home run offseason from Reese. Ernie deserves very little credit for 2011 beyond the fact that he made the Eli deal and from that standpoint will always have his fingers on the team. That was a total organizational move though

On target

I meant the playoffs that carried over into '08.

1st round: William Joseph, Shaun Williams

2nd round: Tim Carter, Joe Montgomery, Sinorice Moss (traded up to get him)

Reese has had two flops in the second round and none in the first unless you want to count David Wilson but to me that was more injury.

But in any event, Reese's record is clearly better in the first two rounds. Ernie was better in the latter rounds.

forgot him

Ernie did draft Osi, Tuck and Eli. So, he did set up the core of the SB teams in a way. But he had a lot more misses in the first two rounds than Reese.

in 2010 at S..He admits it..

The drafts the last 3 years have improved..I think injuries have detroyed his OL, though Mosely Brewer, Petrus were wasted picks, imv

for awhile. That's obviously worn out. He's had some major f-ups-the safety situation in '09 & that 'line' he put in front of our franchise QB in '13 come to mind.

And his drafting record from '08-'12 was horrendous. Seriously. You want a laugh? Check out his '12 draft. It might be the worst I've ever seen.

Draft:

(no first round pick)
2nd Round Pick: Corey Webster
3rd Round Pick: Justin Tuck
4th Round Pick: Brandon Jacobs

Free Agency:

Plaxico Burress
Kareem McKenzie
Antonio Pierce

That's a helluva offseason right there. Yeah, we may have been an 8-8 team when he left, but when you add players added above, and then go back to '03 and '04 like....

Eli, Snee, O'hara, and Osi....

Then look at some FA aquisitions in '06 like Sam Madison and RW McQuarters...

He left us with a very, VERY solid roster heading into 2007.

Those players have supplemented a core and helped us win championships.

What remains to be seen is, can Reese actually build the core himself?

I like what I see out of the last two drafts, but it all remains to be seen.

That draft certainly wont stand the test of time as all time great or anything when judging the totality of players careers.... But in terms of year 1 returns it is still utterly unfathomable how amazing that was. To have 7 players contributing to a SB win from that class is just absurd. It includes a starting corner (ross) , a starting TE in the playoffs (boss) our leading rusher in the playoffs (bradshaw), a 3rd WR who changed the complexion of the passing offense when he got healthy (steve smith). Jay Alford and Michael johnson were both playing plenty in sub roles during that postseason, Alford was out there getting a sack on the final drive of the SB. Plus our longsnapper in Deossie. That one draft had such a massive impact on that run.

It was masterful.

But they were all suplemental role players. They complimented a core that was already there, and that's my WHOLE point.

Like I said, Reese is great at drafting guys to fill a role, or superstar skill position players.

But can he build a foundation, offensive and defensive lines, that actually allows those players to blossom?

Accorsi certainly deserves more credit for 07 than Reese, that core was his. But not at all 4 years later. Reese built the 2011 team, flat out. Crediting Ernie more for that roster doesnt hold up for a second of scrutiny. That roster was over 80% Reese's, and other than Eli the majority of Accorsi holdovers were all in decline.

we don't win in 2011 without McKenzie, Snee, Diehl, Brandon Jacobs, Tuck, Osi, Chase Blackburn, and Kiwinuka playing significant roles. All Accorsi guys.

Also id argue that diehl and mckenzie were sore spots on that team and we won in spite of getting below average play out of them. Its also dubious to credit accorsi for blackburn when he left and came back under reese. But back to the original point, there is really no argument whatsoever that the 11 team wasnt Reese's through and through.

that helped contribute to the win. And that's my whole bone of contention with Reese.

So you're saying that McKenzie, Snee, and Diehl were the weak spots on the O-line? If so, is that saying that Baas and Boothe were the bright spots?

Even if it were true that the line sucked THAT bad, isn't that Reese's fault considering he had taken over the team 5 years prior? If they sucked so bad, why was he still using Accorsi's guys? Now none of them are left and our line still sucks, 3 and a half years later.

reese deserves at least partial credit for guys like tuck, osi, webster, jacobs, kiwi, snee because he was running the draft room when those picks were made. Accorsi obviously deserves no credit for anything reese has done player wise after his "retirement", at least directly.

If you want to credit accorsi for the offensive line that led the league in pressures allowed and were dead last in rushing offense, by all means do so. Accorsi's offensive line was arguably the single weakest part of the team that year. Id argue the best performer on that line down the stretch run was Boothe, and he was a reese guy if im not mistaken

In comment 12459341 MarshallOnMontana said:

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If you want to credit accorsi for the offensive line that led the league in pressures allowed and were dead last in rushing offense, by all means do so. Accorsi's offensive line was arguably the single weakest part of the team that year. Id argue the best performer on that line down the stretch run was Boothe, and he was a reese guy if im not mistaken

You're missing my point. You saying that the offensive line was the weakest link is an indictment of Reese, not Accorsi. You're proving my point.

The fact that they had to trot that line out there, majority Accorsi guys, is because they didnt' have anything better. Who's fault is that?

And we STILL don't have anything better.

And the line STILL SUCKS.

It's 2015 now.

Thats a different topic. Im speaking about the attempt to credit Accorsi over Reese for 11, which is just completely indefensible. Nothing i have said makes that point for you

I never said reese was above criticism as a gm. Just that its absurd to rob him of credit for 11 and shift it to Ernie

that I was addressing the lines when speaking of the core.

In comment 12459014 mattlawson said:

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1?

Three: Eli, DeOssie, Dahl.

Not to belabor this, but again you are crediting Ernie for his role in what was a weakness on that team (that OL), but then use that same OL as a weapon against Reese (trying to have it both ways) The DL was mostly Reese. By far the best lineman on either side of the ball in JPP was a Reese pick. Both starting DT's. He deserves at least partial credit for Tuck and Osi. The front office saw how good those drafts were at the end of Accorsi's tenure, and that played a big role in my view in Accorsi's "retirement" and Reese's promotion.

Also when you use the word "especially" i take that as an emphasis on ghe trenches but not completely limited to that

So let's forget Accorsi, then.

I'm extremely disappointed in the state of our offensive line since 2009, and I personally feel he's neglected the position. He's had six years since 2008 and it's only gotten worse and worse every year.

And personally, I think our team goes as the O-line goes. Always has.

I do like Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers.

So I'm hoping that's going to FINALLY change this year.

No question Ernie's FA acquisitions were better. Though I do think Reese got a bit unlucky with Canty's injury.

is his endless search to find "steals" in the third and fourth rounds. Sure take a shot every once in a while, but those rounds are where you can pick up decent players at the non-marquis positions, such as safety, center, SAM.

How many of those positions did he draft in the third and fourth rounds? Chad Jones is the only one who comes to mind. Instead, we got "raw" players at marquis positions like Brewer, Mosely, and Barden.

So, the last two drafts Giants had to go safety and center in the second round. That goes against their draft philosophy but they had to do it because those positions had not been filled as they should have been in the third and fourth rounds in previous years.

Even the drafting of David Wilson was necessitated by having not properly filled he RB position in the mid rounds.
I think Jerry started to believe his own press clippings a little too much and thought he would be the wunderkind
who outsmarted everyone by find a stud LT and WR in the third and fourth rounds. Now, it seems he has gone back to basics and is going after fewer reaches.