and Jenkins is starting at DE. I've tried to remain positive about this team and coaches but this is it for me. Jenkins has no business at DE in a 4-3 and should be used on pass rush situations inside only. And Kuhn should not be on the roster (neither should Hosley, I guess their scholarships haven't ended yet!).
I feel as though I have now fully soured on this season and it hasn't even started. Thank god for gambling and fantasy football because if this is the crap we are trotting out on our D this season is going is going to be an utter embarrassment.
Because he's justifiably pessimistic?
"Kuhn is only gonna be a rotational player! He won't start"
My Lord, Coughlin has lost it.
2) We should not read to much into starting line-ups with Spags. The initial front with Kuhn seems to be the run-stop package.
3) Go Gints.
If getting blocked into the 2nd level every play is good then he might as well get his bust for Canton made already.
"Kuhn is only gonna be a rotational player! He won't start"
My Lord, Coughlin has lost it.
Here I am..Let's see what unfolds
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And good riddance
Because he's justifiably pessimistic?
Because nobody cares about petulant assholes who like to bitch all the time.
And the Jenkins at DE I just don't get. People didn't panic about this during OTA's and a lot of camp because everyone thought it was temporary due to injuries and giving Kuhn a chance to prove he was worthy of a roster spot. But in now way should he still be a starting DE (even if we are doing a lot of 3-4 looks). He is a role player at this point in time who needs managed snap counts.
I hope the game plan is different than the depth chart.
Because you've seen each and every one play and had time to form a top to bottom ranking?
So we shall see.
And the Jenkins at DE I just don't get. People didn't panic about this during OTA's and a lot of camp because everyone thought it was temporary due to injuries and giving Kuhn a chance to prove he was worthy of a roster spot. But in now way should he still be a starting DE (even if we are doing a lot of 3-4 looks). He is a role player at this point in time who needs managed snap counts.
I hope the game plan is different than the depth chart.
It's not that they have him listed as a starter.
He IS a starter.
We'll see who starts Thursday.
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Is the worst starting dt in the nfl period.
Because you've seen each and every one play and had time to form a top to bottom ranking?
Quinn shared it with him.
Hankins at least is a proven talent. I doubt he's a concern in the regular season. Kuhn has never been a good player and is being counted on to be one. Its a terrible roster building oversight especially coming off a season where we were gashed by the run.
At least Hankins and the Ends have shown that they can do the job.
They all need to be able to hold up.
Is Nix ready to play or was he picked up as injured-goods as I didnt see this come across over the weekend?
That's what prompted my response that got Bill2's bitch annoyed
How shallow is that? Kuhn starting, turned you from Optimistic to pessimistic? You are indeed chris r's son..:)
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Obviously the guy is doing some good things, and playing his position like Spags wants him too. He has a role and responsibilities, and I believe most on here don't understand what they are.
If getting blocked into the 2nd level every play is good then he might as well get his bust for Canton made already.
I've only gotten to see one preseason game so i watched the oline and dline.
1.) Kuhn did not get blocked into the 2nd level every play, try not to exaggerate too much. And since I do not know (and neither do you) just what his assignment is I'm not sure where he should be. I do think Bromley showed more.
2.) So TC (and Spags) is/are so stupid, he/they don't know who is playing well and who is not.
I'm not a fan of Kuhn and think he will shortly be reduced to part time back up, especially if Nix picks up the defense and is motivated. But starter means nothing except he's first on the field.
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it mean it's shifted my outlook on this season from optimistic to pessimistic
How shallow is that? Kuhn starting, turned you from Optimistic to pessimistic? You are indeed chris r's son..:)
At least he incorporates new information into his analysis, however flawed his analysis is. You are just full steam ahead optimistic in your analysis of the teams prospects regardless of any new information. Or in this case, two years worth of old information on the Giants being horrible.
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In comment 12460866 PatersonPlank said:
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Obviously the guy is doing some good things, and playing his position like Spags wants him too. He has a role and responsibilities, and I believe most on here don't understand what they are.
If getting blocked into the 2nd level every play is good then he might as well get his bust for Canton made already.
I've only gotten to see one preseason game so i watched the oline and dline.
1.) Kuhn did not get blocked into the 2nd level every play, try not to exaggerate too much. And since I do not know (and neither do you) just what his assignment is I'm not sure where he should be. I do think Bromley showed more.
2.) So TC (and Spags) is/are so stupid, he/they don't know who is playing well and who is not.
I'm not a fan of Kuhn and think he will shortly be reduced to part time back up, especially if Nix picks up the defense and is motivated. But starter means nothing except he's first on the field.
This part nails it totally imv:
But starter means nothing except he's first on the field.
"Kuhn is only gonna be a rotational player! He won't start"
My Lord, Coughlin has lost it.
Right here. And if he's the starting DT for week one I'll say I was wrong. Not before.
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In comment 12460932 GiantsFan84 said:
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it mean it's shifted my outlook on this season from optimistic to pessimistic
How shallow is that? Kuhn starting, turned you from Optimistic to pessimistic? You are indeed chris r's son..:)
At least he incorporates new information into his analysis, however flawed his analysis is. You are just full steam ahead optimistic in your analysis of the teams prospects regardless of any new information. Or in this case, two years worth of old information on the Giants being horrible.
Bill2! Bill2!
I will reserve final judgment until I see how the game plays out as yes as others have mentioned the listing may not reflect the actual usage of players, but I feel like seeing the depth chart today was a big wake up call that this defense could be really, really, really bad this year, where up until today I thought they would be average to pretty decent.
I will reserve final judgment until I see how the game plays out as yes as others have mentioned the listing may not reflect the actual usage of players, but I feel like seeing the depth chart today was a big wake up call that this defense could be really, really, really bad this year, where up until today I thought they would be average to pretty decent.
I just wouldn't worry about it..TC and staff know what they're doing..Despite silly 'must have pictures' comments, there are things about who makes the team and who gets the minutes that we are not, as fans, privy to..
My overwhelming concern is and will always be debilitating injuries to starters..That's mainly what worries me..I leave who plays and who doesn't to the people who steer the team's ship..
In an offensive league, we rank near the top(on paper) imo, so with an average D, we should be in the mix for the playoffs..Pethaps the D surprises as Dallas' did last year
For all we know the firs tplay of the game he starts and then they bring in Selvie move Jenkins back to DT and we do not see Kuhn again...
Depth chart means nothing without the gameplan....
Just like the LBs they are not going to have 3 on the field every single snap....there are going to be snaps where Kennard moves to DE and rushes off the edge Which in turn moves Jenkins to DT and Kuhn out....
This is just the base formation and for all we know that is the only package he is involved in...
Of course he knows what he's doing..How silly..Shall we re-list all the key record setting starter and back up injuries of the last two years? I think not..
You think that's not a big factor? Go over the injuries to starters AND their backups and tell me HOW TC the coaster overcomes that..Just please tell me without the snark..
Most of all I can say that to start on this team, he needn't be the best player in the nfl at his position. He only needs to be better than other choices on the team. I don't understand why you would want to play with only 10 men on the defense. Do you really think that it would be addition by subtraction and no more?
1) The GM has to be fired immediately. If the coaches are evaluating properly and Kuhn is the best they have to offer at DT next to Hankins than a serious problem exists with the personnel department. This team had the audacity to spend money on special teamers like Castillas and Harris but couldnt make a better offer to Dan Williams who recieved a 1 yr 4 million deal from the Raiders?
2) Whoever is involved in the decision to start Kuhn has to go. Based on what we have all seen he can't possibly be the best option to start next to Hankins. If he is number 1 most occur. If not somebody needs to be fired for this decision.
I laugh when I hear the Giants talk about special teams and how they need to get better there. The team doenst have a legit starting DT, Nickel back and is flip flopping safeties every other fucking day. Maybe we should start with the guys who play every down as opposed to players who are part of a phase of the game being eliminated by the NFL.
1) The GM has to be fired immediately. If the coaches are evaluating properly and Kuhn is the best they have to offer at DT next to Hankins than a serious problem exists with the personnel department. This team had the audacity to spend money on special teamers like Castillas and Harris but couldnt make a better offer to Dan Williams who recieved a 1 yr 4 million deal from the Raiders?
2) Whoever is involved in the decision to start Kuhn has to go. Based on what we have all seen he can't possibly be the best option to start next to Hankins. If he is number 1 most occur. If not somebody needs to be fired for this decision.
I laugh when I hear the Giants talk about special teams and how they need to get better there. The team doenst have a legit starting DT, Nickel back and is flip flopping safeties every other fucking day. Maybe we should start with the guys who play every down as opposed to players who are part of a phase of the game being eliminated by the NFL.
1.) They signed Ellis for DT. Didn't work out...It is not like they didn't do something. Williams, so what.
2.) Why don't you wait and see what Casillas and Harris do before you dismiss them.
3.) Safety was a problem, but they drafted Collins and had Behre, Jackson and Cooper on the team. Nobody expected 3 safeties to be lost pre-season and nobody could sign starting players based on that.
If he's cut without any impact to the cap, then the signing was considered low risk and they weren't sure if he was going to make the grade from the jump.
It's not about Castillas and Harris as individual players. It's about the thought process of targeting the special teams as an area to attack. Kickoffs have been virtually eliminated as part of the game. Punt return and punt coverage shouldnt be the focus when you lack capable DTs, CBS and safeties.
If he's cut without any impact to the cap, then the signing was considered low risk and they weren't sure if he was going to make the grade from the jump.
This, though as a fan, I was against cutting Ellis..I thought that was stupid UNLESS Nix is healthy enough to do what Ellis was brought in to do
No and Ellis had other offers including returning to the Jets. He picked staying in NY area and the opportunity to be a starter. Please let's not try to devalue Ellis to justify why Coughlin wants to start Kuhn.
It's not about Castillas and Harris as individual players. It's about the thought process of targeting the special teams as an area to attack. Kickoffs have been virtually eliminated as part of the game. Punt return and punt coverage shouldnt be the focus when you lack capable DTs, CBS and safeties.
ODB, you can't have it both ways..You can't lament Quinn being retained because of our shitty Specials and complain about attempts to shore up a very vulnerable area
Kuhn is doing something right that we as fans don't see. The coaches do or he'd be packing his bags with Adrian Robinson.
Maybe you can carefully watch the game and see if Kuhn occupies 2 offensive lineman/blockers on many plays. If so, then he's contributed.
I'm all for having a good special teams unit but you shouldnt be using legitimate financial resources on those positions when the roster is in the shape that it's in.
The money we spent on Castillas and Harris would have been better used on guys who are going to play every down. We have no depth at CB, safety, DT, OL, etc.
Markus Kuhn is the starting DT of the New York Giants. Think about that. My how the mighty have fallen.
Kuhn is doing something right that we as fans don't see. The coaches do or he'd be packing his bags with Adrian Robinson.
Maybe you can carefully watch the game and see if Kuhn occupies 2 offensive lineman/blockers on many plays. If so, then he's contributed.
Leave Spags out of it. Coughlin had Perry use him too. That Dallas game last season and their big drive comes to mind. Kuhn was kept in on that drive while Spags was coaching in Baltimore. Kuhn has been getting snaps while healthy since he has been here.
Leave Spags out of it. Coughlin had Perry use him too.
I've noticed that the Coughlin Excuse Brigade has been dragging Spags' name into a ton of arguments as some kind of deflector shield for their hero. They're just working hard to lay the groundwork for all blame going to Spags so St. Tommy remains utterly blameless and without any responsibility whatsoever for the team he ostensibly runs.
I'm all for having a good special teams unit but you shouldnt be using legitimate financial resources on those positions when the roster is in the shape that it's in.
The money we spent on Castillas and Harris would have been better used on guys who are going to play every down. We have no depth at CB, safety, DT, OL, etc.
Markus Kuhn is the starting DT of the New York Giants. Think about that. My how the mighty have fallen.
It was the editorial "you."
Lol
??
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Ashlee Palmer is still on the depth chart who was cut...thats how you know this depth chart means nothing...
??
His point being that it might not have been fully updated as of yet
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In comment 12461118 nygiants16 said:
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Ashlee Palmer is still on the depth chart who was cut...thats how you know this depth chart means nothing...
??
His point being that it might not have been fully updated as of yet
Not even that, the Giants obviously just put something out because they have to, they obviously do not care about it enough to proof read it for errors..
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I've noticed that the Coughlin Excuse Brigade has been dragging Spags' name into a ton of arguments as some kind of deflector shield for their hero. They're just working hard to lay the groundwork for all blame going to Spags so St. Tommy remains utterly blameless and without any responsibility whatsoever for the team he ostensibly runs.
I just wanted to take a moment to say how much I enjoyed this post. It's incredible how there's a segment of the fanbase that gives all the credit to TC when we win and assigns him none of the blame when we lose.
If we sucked the last 2 years because our players sucked (which I agree with), then doesn't logic dictate that we won 2 super bowls largely because those teams where really talented?
And I don't hate TC. I like him with two big exceptions: 1) His in-game management is awful, and 2) he will absolutely play his "favorites" while sitting more talented and productive players. I don't know how this point can even be debatable by now.
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Leave Spags out of it. Coughlin had Perry use him too.
I've noticed that the Coughlin Excuse Brigade has been dragging Spags' name into a ton of arguments as some kind of deflector shield for their hero. They're just working hard to lay the groundwork for all blame going to Spags so St. Tommy remains utterly blameless and without any responsibility whatsoever for the team he ostensibly runs.
Ironically, when things were going well the same crew used to tout his influence on personnel as a former GM in Jax. Go figure.
Ellis was a second banana on the Jets. He wasn't even a rotation guy as there were 4 Jet linemen each with quadruple his snaps. But of course since Kuhn is the new BBI whipping boy, Ellis was a budding all-Pro and his new devoted fans can't fathom that a guy who broke even against 3rd stringers isn't our new starting tackle.
Kuhn stinks. Ellis stunk more. Get over it.
Now that the talent level has declined, quite a few people slam Reese at every available opportunity while lamenting the travails of poor, snakebitten Tom Coughlin. My goodness, how can you expect him to make the playoffs with these rosters? Oh, gee, it's not Coughlin's fault that he doesn't have anyone better than Kuhn! Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this Kuhn's THIRD season on the team? You expect me to believe that, had Coughlin told Reese "We've got to find someone better than this stiff", they wouldn't have been able to replace him over the course of the past two seasons?
People either don't know or choose not to believe that he's heavily involved in the draft process.
Coughlin ranked Hankins behind Kuhn and Patterson as well. I wouldn't use that theory.
That was a Jerry Reach special.
I could live with him being the 4th or 5th DT for a couple of years. When he started the 1st preseason game and served as the day's defensive captain, I assumed it was a nod of respect for a guy who's been here a few years, not necessarily a blueprint for this D. After 4 games, I am truly confused as to how he is on the roster, let alone starting. When they brought in another DT, I was again confused. I sincerely hope the coaches see something we don't, but right now I am not confident that is the case with this one guy.
People either don't know or choose not to believe that he's heavily involved in the draft process.
+1
TC is involved both with shopping for the ingredients and deciding which ingredients go into the final recipe. While JR absolutely has responsibility too, TC is not an innocent bystander who is the victim of bad drafts and free agency for which he was walled off.
Hankins/Bromley/Ellis +1 needs to happen Sun.
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also raises the question of why we had to invest a 3rd round pick in him if he can't beat out Kuhn.
Coughlin ranked Hankins behind Kuhn and Patterson as well. I wouldn't use that theory.
My point is that Linval redshirted for a year and then started. The same for Hankins. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect he same for a third round pick. Hopefully Bromley becomes a player, but for now the fact that Kuhn is starting over him does raise questions about the organization's decision-making.
This "Kuhn-hating" is not personal; it's about ability and evidence. I give the guy credit for determination after being a low-round pick and particularly after his devastating knee injury.
Once the season begins, we'll see where teams try to run and where and when they succeed at running. If they run up the middle successfully when Kuhn is in there, so be it.
Now that the talent level has declined, quite a few people slam Reese at every available opportunity while lamenting the travails of poor, snakebitten Tom Coughlin. My goodness, how can you expect him to make the playoffs with these rosters? Oh, gee, it's not Coughlin's fault that he doesn't have anyone better than Kuhn! Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this Kuhn's THIRD season on the team? You expect me to believe that, had Coughlin told Reese "We've got to find someone better than this stiff", they wouldn't have been able to replace him over the course of the past two seasons?
Well fucking said Greg!
This obsession with the "starter" designation is almost borderline sick..:)
Agreed. There is a "Jerry Reach" comment above about Bromley (Who went to TC's alma mater)...I'm sure he had no input on that one.
I'm putting Kuhn directly on Coughlin & Spags. If somehow Kuhn plays well, they were right, we were wrong. Else, they f-ed up again, plain and simple. Just like they kept Robinson at LEAST 1 year too long. Just like replacing Locklear (who was playing well) in 2013 with the back from injury statue of David Diehl which cost the Giants at LEAST 1 game.
If the Giants are having trouble stopping the run, it's not just on Kuhn.
If the Giants are having trouble stopping the run, it's not just on Kuhn.
CC Brown would beg to differ.
I agree that would be an indictment on Bromley but also and indictment on Reese and Coughlin
I agree with Eric on this. They should have kept Linval.
There is a very, very good chance that Kuhn was one of them.
This week will be a big challenge for the entire DL - so we'll see. Right now it looks like the team is still looking for an upgrade at DT if they can find one, so let's not act surprised if/when they move on from Kuhn either.
Giants on 3!
Why can't the Giants just rebuild and see where things lie after this season? Maybe they end this season on a higher note than the last 2 years and maybe this team is in fact headed in the right direction. That could be the case here.
I know everyone wants blood and someone has to pay and all that crap but sometimes it's better to stand pat. It't not always wise to clean house.
The Giants had an excellent run. They were near the top in identifying and developing talent and they won a lot of hardware. Then they hit a bad spell and also suffered some tough luck. They made their own bed, no excuses, but some misfortune played a part. And now everyone wants to clean house. I think this regime deserves some wiggle room. This isn't Jim Fassel or Dan Reeves we are talking about. Give the guy some time to mold a team out of raw talent. last year was step 1...no one would have won with that defense and DC. This is year 2...talk to me in December.
And how many of those coaches that were fired would have perhaps gotten off the mat and coached their team back to competitiveness? I get the Chuck Noll argument. I get the Don Shula argument. But just because those guys lingered around doesn't mean Coughlin can't get the job done this year and next.
And Bill Cowher was nearly run out of Pitt after struggling for 2-3 seasons after his mid 90s run. The Steelers held on to him and were rewarded with winning football and a super bowl title. Check Pitt's record from 1997-2000. They didn't fire the coach. They stayed the course. And they were rewarded.
Coughlin is not the problem. And I don't think the scouting and GM are either. I think the Giants had a bad 2 years and have since improved things but the damage was done. Now they are trying to dig out of it. They might. Thankfully the season isn't determined by the prognosticators.
That said, injuries played a huge part in our failures. It has been our bad luck that we were plagued at injuries at one position each year, which has been a little debilitating.
What I don't agree with (not from you, but others) is the notion that Reese has ignored certain positions, OL and LB, for example. You may not like all his moves, but he has addressed both. Each of the last 3 years a 1st or 2nd round pick was spent on the OL and each of those 3 players is starting. He also signed veteran players to fill specific holes. Some didn't pan out (Walton), some were hurt (Schwartz), some were forced into extended time they weren't expected to fill (Jerry), etc. I think this year, if Schwartz stays healthy, this can be a decent unit. Even if not, it should still be improved simply by the guys we have at LT, LG, and OC being upgrades over last year.
The same goes for LB. Reese drafted guys and brough in vets. Some panned out and some didn't. But, he didn't ignore the position.
Now, we are plagued by injuries at S and to a lesser degree CB. People are acting as if Reese is stubbornly refusing to improve the position. What S is out that can definitively perform at a much higher level than what we have?
That brings us to DT and DE. I certainly haven't been shy about my feelings that Kuhn should be gone. I also don't think we have a single dominating player on the DL. But, we do have a collection of decent DL, most of whom can do something well. As a rotation/situational unit, they may surprise. But, again, who is out there that is definitively better than what have outside of Kuhn, who is the only player for whom there is a legitimate complaint between Coughlin/Reese.
You guys do not at all appreciate what went on here. We had an 8 year run without a losing season and 2 Super Bowl wins. That's pretty fucking good. Parcells had 6, if we don't count the strike season, and two championships. Before that, you are going back before most of you were born to Jim Lee Howell and his assistants, two guys named Lombardi and Landry, who had 7, and one championship. These kinds of runs are rare animals in Giant history.
Did you people think it was going to last forever without a rebuild?
So there was a couple of losing seasons- boo hoo. What would you clowns be saying if we hit a 4-12 like the Eagles did a couple of years back or went through the trials and tribulations of both the Cowboys and the Niners, who still haven't won anything in 20 years?
Coughlin is certainly capable of building a team. He did it in Jacksonville and he did it here. Leave him the fuck alone, and he'll do it again here. Screw around and do what Weaver did, which he said was the biggest mistake he ever made, (and which Jawn is more than capable of repeating) and we'll be here 5 years from now talking about year 7 of the rebuild process after a couple of 2-14 seasons.
You may now all continue with your pissing and moaning.