Why can't they cut Beason and get over this nightmare already. When has he ever been healthy since he came to the Giants? Sheeeesh!!!!!!!!!!!!
And replace him with who? What does cutting him solve? I agree that they can't rely on him, but at this point, his presence isn't preventing the team from finding a solution by other means. There is plenty of cap space.
love the guy, but time after time after time after time, all he does is occupy a roster spot....a shitty 4th stringer is better than a guy who can't even suit up...I say 1 more chance and that's it...he comes back after this and if he does not finish the season, misses 1 lousy game, cut him. I am so sick of this
is this could be season affecting for Beason. If his knee swelled up, which is what we are assuming, after a hard practice, what will happen after a full on game (60 minute game)? Based on his past injuries and the wear and tear on his body, do not be shocked if this isn't more of a problem than has been reported. (my opinion)
As far as Beason is concerned, he is clearly still bothered by old injuries, as evidenced by the swelling in his knee. Getting through practice for him is becoming more and more difficult. If we can't get anything or much out of him by week three, I'd put him on IR. Although I was initially against it, trading for him was fine. It was just a seventh round pick. Resigning him though was obviously a mistake.
to start at MLB? I can't see Unga starting, unless he comes in on passing downs. He appears too light at MLB and got bowled over a few times in preseason. I did like his athleticism though. We have to be capable of stopping Dallas's running game first and foremost. Collins will have his hands full in this game. There is no way our defense is ready for this. Offense and Specials have to click in this game for us to have any chance.
Cruz would probably be number 1. And I will have no problem admitting I am wrong, but people getting hyped for his return should be prepared for him not to perform to the levels they want.
1. He is coming off a major injury and developed another serious one in the process.
2. He has been in decline since 2011 (people forget how bad he was in 2013).
3. He was the league leader in drops before his injury last year.
I do believe that Cruz is more important in the offense this year than OBJ. Just look at what Edelman brings to NE's offense. Just vital to have. I just dont think he can play at that level anymore.
to start at MLB? I can't see Unga starting, unless he comes in on passing downs. He appears too light at MLB and got bowled over a few times in preseason. I did like his athleticism though. We have to be capable of stopping Dallas's running game first and foremost. Collins will have his hands full in this game. There is no way our defense is ready for this. Offense and Specials have to click in this game for us to have any chance.
If they feel Brinkley is ready he could play in base on running downs...he is not athletic enough though to play on passing downs...
Eventually thought he may be the starting Middle if Beason can not get back...
Unga is good on passing downs because he is very athletic and quick for LB...
Dude is coming off a major knee injury from during last season.
I think he deserves a season to get back to 100%. It hasn't even been a calendar year, yet.
But he is getting older. Makes a lot of $$$, has another serious injury. If he produces at the level of a preston parker..... he would have to take a serious $$$ cut. But I am all for getting rid of guys who are hurt time and tiem again.
I'd like to see more of Harris in the slot. He can replace Cruz.
Harris might be able to play slot, but no he cannot replace Cruz.
I think people have too high expectations or Harris, he never forced his way on the field in Dallas through 4 seasons for a reason and it wasn't because Cole Beasley is so awesome.
I don't think he's declining. He's in his prime years
He's simply not good enough to be the only offensive player on a bad offensive team, which was the case in 2013. He was never going to replicate his breakout year, and Beckham won't either. That won't indicate decline either.
way too premature to talk about Cruz getting cut, but he makes WAY too much money for even an "above average" player. Unless he regains his magic, he will have to take a pay cut or be cut.
I really had deluded myself that they were just being overly cautious about Cruz. Hope he's back very soon as I would love to see how teams deal with having to cover him (at full stregth) and OBJ at the same time.
Not surprised about Beason. Hope they bring McClain back.
I really had deluded myself that they were just being overly cautious about Cruz. Hope he's back very soon as I would love to see how teams deal with having to cover him (at full stregth) and OBJ at the same time.
Not surprised about Beason. Hope they bring McClain back.
Over McClain. Time to move on and get younger and faster. They would not have let him go if they didn't have his replacement ready.
Spags mentioned that as a possibility but Herzlich seems better suited outside (based on what we've seen recently).
Is that true? People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
I didn't see McClain do anything that Herzlich couldn't do.
In fact, Herzlich looked better than McClain for a fraction of the price.
way too premature to talk about Cruz getting cut, but he makes WAY too much money for even an "above average" player. Unless he regains his magic, he will have to take a pay cut or be cut.
If he didn't have such a severe injury, cutting Cruz would be such a ludicrous statement. However, until he's back on the field and proving otherwise as to being alright, that statement isn't so far off at this point. I'll wait and see..I have faith he'll comeback to almost where he was, which would be a very good WR.
Starting towards the end of last season, Herzlich has looked decent defending the run outside. That's continued into the preseason. He could have a significant role against Dallas depending on the formation.
I wasn't a big fan of his game, but he did play better last year and it has continued this year. You don't want him in space covering people, but he's pretty stout against the run.
The offense will be fine if Randle can go full speed. The offense was fine last year without Cruz(or Harris and Vereen).
We just have to hope the Oline holds up.
The defense is going to struggle no matter what. I'd rather see them struggle with the younger players out there, to be honest. I don't think Beason can ever be considered a long term answer. A lot of us wanted Unga, and now we'll see what we got Sunday night.
If he tore his calf, nobody's saying. They've been very secretive about this.
Not knowing the extent of it, part of me thinks they have been holding him out until it is 100% healed so he doesnt overcompensate for it when he starts running again...
But the fact it is taking this long makes me think there is more going on...
Starting towards the end of last season, Herzlich has looked decent defending the run outside. That's continued into the preseason. He could have a significant role against Dallas depending on the formation.
Eric I totally agree. It was not a big talking point because we were out of contention, but I did notice is improvement quite a bit last season.
obvious that trading for Beason was a mistake (and again, I don't buy it was only a 7th rounder argument...see Bradshaw and maybe even Bobby Hart).
The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.
People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
I didn't see McClain do anything that Herzlich couldn't do.
In fact, Herzlich looked better than McClain for a fraction of the price.
pj - I disagree big-time on Herz. He is just awful in space and will absolutely be targeted in the short passing game to TEs and RBs.
The only reason I think folks think he is decent against the run is that he is just so bad against the pass. His run defense is straight-ahead speed only and really struggles to the sidelines.
obvious that trading for Beason was a mistake (and again, I don't buy it was only a 7th rounder argument...see Bradshaw and maybe even Bobby Hart).
The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.
Finally people coming around and not ridiculing me for not wanting to "even part with a 7th" round pick for him.
In addition to the Bradshaw example, it was a 7th round pick that helped the Giants move up for Landon Collins.
Also, what sometimes people don't realize is the ripple effect, you trade a 7th, and then re-sign him compounding things so now you don't plan on filling the MIKE position with anyone else because you have a starter, then he can't play and you wind up with McClain (who was NOT good last year) or Herzlich (who was better against the run, but a liability in coverage) as your MIKE because resources are limited.
I would have released Beason before I released McClain
or in coverage is a little misguided. He's definitely bad at that. They're not going to line him up expecting to cover RB and TEs. They spent money to bring in players specifically to do that.
It's time to see if he have a MLB for the future on this team
People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
I didn't see McClain do anything that Herzlich couldn't do.
In fact, Herzlich looked better than McClain for a fraction of the price.
pj - I disagree big-time on Herz. He is just awful in space and will absolutely be targeted in the short passing game to TEs and RBs.
The only reason I think folks think he is decent against the run is that he is just so bad against the pass. His run defense is straight-ahead speed only and really struggles to the sidelines.
Yes, I agree Herzlich can't cover, but McClain is just as bad. Except Herzlich is good against the run, and laid some of the best hits last year of anyone on the team. And McClain was not good against the run or the pass.
My point wasn't Herzlich is good in space, he's not, my point is no reason to keep McClain, he was worse than Herzlich and makes much more money.
or in coverage is a little misguided. He's definitely bad at that. They're not going to line him up expecting to cover RB and TEs. They spent money to bring in players specifically to do that.
But that the point TTH. You can't be "bad" at something that is a major job responsibility.
And do you really think Offenses cannot figure out ways to take advantage of someone like that, no matter where he lines up?
Fan since we issued got him. I'm starting to agree that he's just not working out anymore. He couldn't even make it through a few defensive series in the pre season..
rather than waste the year plugging in a mediocre stopgap like Herzlich or McClain.
Maybe, just maybe, we'll be pleasantly surprised with Unga. Problem with him is size and also the fact that this is a huge stage to start your first game. Thanks NFL schedulers!!
way too premature to talk about Cruz getting cut, but he makes WAY too much money for even an "above average" player. Unless he regains his magic, he will have to take a pay cut or be cut.
or in coverage is a little misguided. He's definitely bad at that. They're not going to line him up expecting to cover RB and TEs. They spent money to bring in players specifically to do that.
But that the point TTH. You can't be "bad" at something that is a major job responsibility.
And do you really think Offenses cannot figure out ways to take advantage of someone like that, no matter where he lines up?
Jeremiah Trotter made his living as a 260 pound brick wall coming downhill and killing the run. Couldn't cover a lick, and started for championship-caliber teams.
Brandon Jacobs can't catch. Started for years and you can win a championship with him.
You can put players in positions to succeed. I don't think Herzlich would ever see the amount of play time to get stuck in situations where he's targeted and exploited.
obvious that trading for Beason was a mistake (and again, I don't buy it was only a 7th rounder argument...see Bradshaw and maybe even Bobby Hart).
The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.
Agree, this team needs to move on from Beason after this season. He's a great warrior, but it seems his body can't take the pounding anymore.
I'm actually at the point where even if he is in there, is age/detoriation/injuries just making him a below average player? And ultimately, hurting the defense?
I say play the younglings.......
I will never understand why we keep relying on Beason
Giving him the money turns out to be a poor decision. Look back at the FA LB's in 2013 and the drafted LB's - bad
ILB:
D. Bishop- 2nd team since 2013
D. Ellerbe - 2nd team since 2013
B. Jones
K. Dansby - 2nd team since 2013
R. McClain - 2nd team since 2013
B. Urlacher - retired
B. Scott - retired
T. Spikes - retired
L. Grant out of league in 2013
C. Blackburn
D. Connor
B. James
OLB:
P. Kruger
P. Wheeler - 2nd team since 2013
D. Smith
C. Barwin
K. Burnett
J. Harrison
S. Phillips
N. Barnett
T. howard
M. lawson
This group is as thin as a bar code
The draft that year - Pugh was picked - A. Ogeltree was picked 11 spots later. M. Teo 20 picks later
After Hankins: J. Bostic, J. Collins, A. Brown, S. Moore
re-signed Beason when his contract expired. While that's a good question, a better question is why did Reese trade for him in the first place, given Beason's history in 2011, 2012 and 2013 with the Panthers.
In 2011 Beason hurt his Achilles' tendon and only played in one game.
In 2012, he lost his starting job to Kuechly and played in only 4 games
In 2013, in the first two games, he lost his starting job to CHASE BLACKBURN and then was traded to the Giants.
What was Reese thinking? He traded for a player who lost his starting job in two successive years. Gettleman vs Reese? Advantage Gettleman!
re-signed Beason when his contract expired. While that's a good question, a better question is why did Reese trade for him in the first place, given Beason's history in 2011, 2012 and 2013 with the Panthers.
In 2011 Beason hurt his Achilles' tendon and only played in one game.
In 2012, he lost his starting job to Kuechly and played in only 4 games
In 2013, in the first two games, he lost his starting job to CHASE BLACKBURN and then was traded to the Giants.
What was Reese thinking? He traded for a player who lost his starting job in two successive years. Gettleman vs Reese? Advantage Gettleman!
It was a gamble. I wasn't for it either but the risk was minimal. It just didn't work out.
Reese traded a 7th for Beason so lets not overdue it.
did play better against the run last year and hasn't been bad this year against the run. The issue is who plays DE on the strong side with him. If it is Herzlich and Jenkins coupled you've got slow and slower on the edge.
This is also one of these frustrating things with this staff. He practiced in full pads/contact Wed. Coach comes out and says he is fine, just that he is sore, now he is ruled out on Fri afternoon for the Sunday Night game - WTF
after the draft: Giants are down Beatty and Cruz on offense and JPP, Beason and maybe a safety on defense for this game. Based on lineups as of the date camp opened, however, it is just Beason and Cruz and Cruz was never a sure thing to pay this year anyway. Cowboys are down 3 defensive starters in this game: Scandrick, Hardy and McClain. They have their top 20 offensive players available.
Who would be playing middle linebacker for the Giants?
Probably the same guy starting this Sunday.
I think we should have pursued Dallas's McClain and made him a defensive priority. I would have taken him over the handful of minor league LB's we signed.
7th pick the Giants gave to the Panthers for Beason.
Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.
The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.
I wasn't a big fan of his game, but he did play better last year and it has continued this year. You don't want him in space covering people, but he's pretty stout against the run.
That's great if you happen to know the other team is going to run. Bad if the other team has the option to employ the forward pass. He can't cover his grandmother.
The same McClain that had offseason knee surgery and is
Curtis: "It was a gamble. I wasn't for it either but the risk was minimal. It just didn't work out."
That was understandable, but after 2014 and again not being able to stay on the field, 2015 was higher $, higher risk, a real reach.
dorgan: agree--even Romo, should he be flushed from the pocket (we can dream, can't we?), should be able to slide around those two, let alone Randle and McFadden
Thank God for his immaculate Special Teams play which has helped immensely! Truly worth keeping all these years for his ST's play. I know it's not 100% related to this situation, but had to get that out of my system. Sorry.
I know management values leadership in its players and the catch phrase for Beason is he's a team leader. But I believe having your key players unable to play due to injuries just demoralizes the whole team.
I predict Beason will not be a Giant for the entire season.
RE: pjcas18
pjcas18 : 2:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 12469265 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Spags mentioned that as a possibility but Herzlich seems better suited outside (based on what we've seen recently).
Is that true? People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
Romo sees Herz out there, he passes in his direction....you can't keep him out of coverage unless you can predict every time the Cowboys will run the ball...
But this next comeback from injury (if he ever comes back) better be his last. I was hoping he had one more solid year in him, but I am not sure that is in the cards.
Like mentioned before, being available is such a huge aspect to being a good player. Can't rely on Beason anymore. Either he comes back soon and plays out the rest of the season, or cut him.
As for McClain, I think it says something that he has not been picked up yet or rumored to be going anywhere else. Either the injury or performance is not appealing to a lot of teams.
but the number of linebackers who can legit cover a RB or TE is limited to very few.
Again, not saying Herzlich can, so maybe you adjust with safety help on the RB/TE when it's clear to be a passing down.
or coach Herzlich up, it's not just a speed thing, Brandon Spikes managed to overcome slowness to a decent job in coverage. And Herzlich is faster than Spikes if you want to call it that.
I like Unga and wanted him to make the team, but he's not ready
surprised or even mad about the Beason injury, it's pretty much par for the course. If anything, this will give some of the other guys a chance to step up and see what they have. How much better is a 80% Beason than a 100% Unga out there?
According to most on BBI, Beason wasn't injury prone
And it was separate incidents that we didn't need to worry about. Smh. The guy is a gimp. A talented gimp, but a gimp nonetheless. Time to make a trade or scour the waiver wire for a replacement. One on who you can count on playing. I like Unga but he isn't ready. I actually like Farrand too. He has a nose for the ball that a Mike should have.
they traded up to take an average Safety while bypassing one of the best Mike LB's in recent years.
And how could you possibly know that this class of Mike LB's is going to be so great when they haven't played a down? If we passed on safety, you would have complained about our lack of safeties and said Collins was there in the 2nd round. Give me a break. For what its worth, Perryman and McKinney have both been less than inspiring thus far.
7th pick the Giants gave to the Panthers for Beason.
Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.
The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.
I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.
Ok, what LB would you have taken with that pick. Because unless you found a starter we are in the same place.
One TINY silver lining from each week Beason doesn't dress:
with this news. I recall Cruz downplaying his calf problem several weeks ago as if to say he was day to day but now this? And as far Beason goes, I'm a big fan of the "healthy" version (as I'm sure most are) and held out hope unlike many realists on BBI but at this point I have to throw my hands up and say uncle.
I don't want to sound like a defeatist but there are very few games on the schedule that I put as much emphasis on as I do with any Dallas game and when you couple that with it being game 1 on national tv, well, I feel like the news on these 2 is much more than a body blow. Fuuuuuck!!!
But I think the number is correct. As I understand the reworking of his contract, he has to be active to collect his $87.5K per-game bonus. I don't believe it's sufficient to just be on the roster. Most of that incentive was classified as NLTBE, so something like the first twelve games he misses are effectively a direct cap credit in 2016.
2013 and could have been signed for the 2013 season instead of trading a draft pick for Beason:
Rey Maualuga signed 2 year deal for $6.5M
Jasper Brinkley
Also available as FAs to play OLB were:
Connor Barwin- how would you like him blitzing from the outside?
Jonathan Casillas
DeAndre Levy
Geno Hayes
Maualuga to handle the inside running game would be nice. Wound up with Brinkley anyway. But Maualuga and Barwin and Kennard would have made a nice trio of LBs.
7th pick the Giants gave to the Panthers for Beason.
Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.
The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.
I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.
Ok, what LB would you have taken with that pick. Because unless you found a starter we are in the same place.
You may want to think about it like this. If Beason is done, we have gotten nothing, and have nothing for next year. Isn't that the real problem? I thought the idea was to use the draft to develop players to start and produce, seems like this team over the last few years have become an elephant graveyard of has beens, meanwhile we can't draft players either that have any value or impact. What is maddening is if Beason is gone next year, we start with NOTHING....don't get me started on some of the other positions.
in FA (sarcasm). Sign the BS artist (washed up) Beason over Linval Joseph. Reese and Ross (his hire) have killed this team for the past 5/6 years in the draft. Will it ever end ??? Does anyone else see the light? Oh right 'in Reese you trust".
Who is Giants replacement slot guy? How did Reese not see this coming?
So Cruz got injured during the season last year and Reese should have already replaced maybe the best slot guy in the league. You can't make this stuff up folks.
Reese traded for Beason, re-signed him and let LJ walk.
What was Rese thinking of?
Look back over the last 5 years Reese does not have a clue, totally incompetent. and responsible for running a SB champion iinto to the ground. In fairness he may be a front man for Mara but he hired the dcumented loser Ross. Make your own decision
I was on the keep LJ side. Although to be fair I was not upset at having Beason since we have been dying for a MLB for years. Also keep in mind that we needed a CB too and spent a bundle on DRC so its not like there were endless resources.
But it has clearly not worked out well as we have only gotten 2/3 of a season out of Beason.
because while I never want to get on a player for an injury, I think these two need to suck it up. They keep talking about how they want to be leaders on this team but they are now frequently sidelined. Sometimes leadership is about showing others how they have to overcome obstacles.
to be injured next, Reese has a way of finding these, retirement because they are injured vets, and burning our cap noney on them. Another talent to go along with lousy drafting and hiring losers like Ross.
YOu can see plain as day on there how many games a player dressed for and started. NOt many for Schwartz nor Beason in years leading up to their acquisitions. 1 and 4 games of each resp. for Beason in 2011 and 2012, Schwartz dressed for 29 of 48 games and started only 7 in 2010, 2011 and 2012.
YOu can see plain as day on there how many games a player dressed for and started. NOt many for Schwartz nor Beason in years leading up to their acquisitions. 1 and 4 games of each resp. for Beason in 2011 and 2012, Schwartz dressed for 29 of 48 games and started only 7 in 2010, 2011 and 2012.
Interesting you would think we would do that type of research before signing these often injured FA who never seem to play very much before they are retiring with their new contracts. Seems we have had shitload of them under this front office.
keep guys like Beason around with how injury prone they are, regardless of cost. Because you keep him around, and then you somehow become reliant on him to be healthy, which happens every blue moon, then when he's not healthy it's a psychological blow to the team. You then have to answer questions about his health every week, and it just makes no sense to even have him on the team. If he was an all pro player when healthy, sure, but he's just decent even when he's on the field.
No 7th Round pick. Players available at the time we could have drafted in the order drafted are:
Jabari Price- taken with our pick and viewed as a ST player at this time.
Jeff Janis- 4th WR for Packers
Seantrel Henderson- starting RT for the Bills
Demetrius Rhaney- back-up C for the Rams
Ken Bishop- backup DT for the Cowboys. Maybe we'll see him tomorrow night.
Terrance Mitchell- starting WR for the Cowboys. For sure we'll see him tomorrow night.
Lonnie Balantine- starting Safety for the Texans
So, 3 starters and the others are backups. Of the 3 starters, one is a RT and the other a Safety, positions where we could have used help this year.
Beason was traded to play MLB. His contract is 4 years $17m and $6.03 guaranteed. Rey Maualuga was then available for a 2 year contract and $6.5M- he was recently extended for 4 years and $15M. I guess the Bengals think he's played pretty well. Also available at same time was Jasper Brinkley, who is currently on the Giants.
Finally, we let LJ walk because we wanted Beason instead.
So, a disastrous trade considering the players we could have selected with the 7th pick, terrible contract for Beason and LJ is gone. Reese hit the trifecta but in the wrong direction.
JPP, Beatty, Cruz and Beason.
Brinkley or Unga should start in the middle
Same here really rooting for him this year but i think it is time to cut bait, even if he comes back for week 2 he is just going to get hurt again...
Go with Unga, at least you will have 3 athletic LBs...
Let's GO!!!
Where's McClain again?
UGH.
Quote:
but I'd changed camps. We just can't rely on the guy, sucks because he's a pretty good player but not a very good one when out all the time.
Same here really rooting for him this year but i think it is time to cut bait, even if he comes back for week 2 he is just going to get hurt again...
Go with Unga, at least you will have 3 athletic LBs...
Isn't Unga gimpy, too? What's Chase Blackburn up to these days?
JK
His entire first year here in 2013.
And replace him with who? What does cutting him solve? I agree that they can't rely on him, but at this point, his presence isn't preventing the team from finding a solution by other means. There is plenty of cap space.
Where's McClain again?
UGH.
Well the thing is... McClain got 100 tackles last year and all but... they needed a spot for Mark Herzlich cuz he's really good at special teams.
Never going to happen, he passed his physical and was a go from day 1 from the knee...
I think League rules state they have to declare today...
Coughlin on middle linebacker: 'We're prepared for that." Indicates Unga is the guy #Giants
I'd like to see more of Harris in the slot. He can replace Cruz.
I'd like to see more of Harris in the slot. He can replace Cruz.
I think you see vereen in the slot a lot Sunday night rather than Parker...
I also think harris will come on and play outside moving Odell in the slot...
They are going to move Odell all over the field...
Cruz?
Cruz? Nope.
Agreed. That is definitely a valid concern.
As far as Beason is concerned, he is clearly still bothered by old injuries, as evidenced by the swelling in his knee. Getting through practice for him is becoming more and more difficult. If we can't get anything or much out of him by week three, I'd put him on IR. Although I was initially against it, trading for him was fine. It was just a seventh round pick. Resigning him though was obviously a mistake.
Coach Killer
1. He is coming off a major injury and developed another serious one in the process.
2. He has been in decline since 2011 (people forget how bad he was in 2013).
3. He was the league leader in drops before his injury last year.
I do believe that Cruz is more important in the offense this year than OBJ. Just look at what Edelman brings to NE's offense. Just vital to have. I just dont think he can play at that level anymore.
Dude is coming off a major knee injury from during last season.
I think he deserves a season to get back to 100%. It hasn't even been a calendar year, yet.
If they feel Brinkley is ready he could play in base on running downs...he is not athletic enough though to play on passing downs...
Eventually thought he may be the starting Middle if Beason can not get back...
Unga is good on passing downs because he is very athletic and quick for LB...
Probably the same guy starting this Sunday.
Cut Cruz?
You serious?
Quote:
If he can't rebound, he'll have to take a pay cut
Dude is coming off a major knee injury from during last season.
I think he deserves a season to get back to 100%. It hasn't even been a calendar year, yet.
But he is getting older. Makes a lot of $$$, has another serious injury. If he produces at the level of a preston parker..... he would have to take a serious $$$ cut. But I am all for getting rid of guys who are hurt time and tiem again.
I'd like to see more of Harris in the slot. He can replace Cruz.
Harris might be able to play slot, but no he cannot replace Cruz.
I think people have too high expectations or Harris, he never forced his way on the field in Dallas through 4 seasons for a reason and it wasn't because Cole Beasley is so awesome.
They have Herzlich to play MLB.
Quote:
If he can't rebound, he'll have to take a pay cut
Dude is coming off a major knee injury from during last season.
I think he deserves a season to get back to 100%. It hasn't even been a calendar year, yet.
Yes , he gets this season. Not next season @ $9.9M cap hit
Not surprised about Beason. Hope they bring McClain back.
But this is the third year now he will miss games with a lower half injury. Those injuries catch up over time.
Hopefully Randle is over his knee tendinitis. He looked slow in pre-season.
Beason? Welp.
Hopefully Randle is over his knee tendinitis. He looked slow in pre-season.
Beason? Welp.
Cruz stinks?
Not surprised about Beason. Hope they bring McClain back.
Over McClain. Time to move on and get younger and faster. They would not have let him go if they didn't have his replacement ready.
Better suited to what? Whiff?
I wouldn't mind seeing Unga start in the middle with Thomas and Kennard outside.
Is that true? People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
I didn't see McClain do anything that Herzlich couldn't do.
In fact, Herzlich looked better than McClain for a fraction of the price.
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Cruz stinks, but they can still use Harris, Parker, and of course, Vereen more. I'm not overly worried.
Hopefully Randle is over his knee tendinitis. He looked slow in pre-season.
Beason? Welp.
Cruz stinks?
No, no. I had "No" in the subject line.
I am not sure if we'll see him until Week 3 or 4, actually.
If he didn't have such a severe injury, cutting Cruz would be such a ludicrous statement. However, until he's back on the field and proving otherwise as to being alright, that statement isn't so far off at this point. I'll wait and see..I have faith he'll comeback to almost where he was, which would be a very good WR.
We just have to hope the Oline holds up.
The defense is going to struggle no matter what. I'd rather see them struggle with the younger players out there, to be honest. I don't think Beason can ever be considered a long term answer. A lot of us wanted Unga, and now we'll see what we got Sunday night.
Another stellar decision.
Not knowing the extent of it, part of me thinks they have been holding him out until it is 100% healed so he doesnt overcompensate for it when he starts running again...
But the fact it is taking this long makes me think there is more going on...
We sure have done some strange things lately. I still have faith but it has been shaken a bit recently.
Eric I totally agree. It was not a big talking point because we were out of contention, but I did notice is improvement quite a bit last season.
The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.
People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
I didn't see McClain do anything that Herzlich couldn't do.
In fact, Herzlich looked better than McClain for a fraction of the price.
pj - I disagree big-time on Herz. He is just awful in space and will absolutely be targeted in the short passing game to TEs and RBs.
The only reason I think folks think he is decent against the run is that he is just so bad against the pass. His run defense is straight-ahead speed only and really struggles to the sidelines.
The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.
Finally people coming around and not ridiculing me for not wanting to "even part with a 7th" round pick for him.
In addition to the Bradshaw example, it was a 7th round pick that helped the Giants move up for Landon Collins.
Also, what sometimes people don't realize is the ripple effect, you trade a 7th, and then re-sign him compounding things so now you don't plan on filling the MIKE position with anyone else because you have a starter, then he can't play and you wind up with McClain (who was NOT good last year) or Herzlich (who was better against the run, but a liability in coverage) as your MIKE because resources are limited.
ever...
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People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
I didn't see McClain do anything that Herzlich couldn't do.
In fact, Herzlich looked better than McClain for a fraction of the price.
pj - I disagree big-time on Herz. He is just awful in space and will absolutely be targeted in the short passing game to TEs and RBs.
The only reason I think folks think he is decent against the run is that he is just so bad against the pass. His run defense is straight-ahead speed only and really struggles to the sidelines.
Yes, I agree Herzlich can't cover, but McClain is just as bad. Except Herzlich is good against the run, and laid some of the best hits last year of anyone on the team. And McClain was not good against the run or the pass.
My point wasn't Herzlich is good in space, he's not, my point is no reason to keep McClain, he was worse than Herzlich and makes much more money.
But that the point TTH. You can't be "bad" at something that is a major job responsibility.
And do you really think Offenses cannot figure out ways to take advantage of someone like that, no matter where he lines up?
Either go with Herz or Unga and suck it up..Perhaps Brinkley can see some snaps if he's at all ready
Either go with Herz or Unga and suck it up..Perhaps Brinkley can see some snaps if he's at all ready
Well, he wasn't supposed to play MIKE. Beason was out. McClain had the best season of his career playing there though.
Let's GO!!!
there we go!
I just disagree with McClain being worse than Herzlich but it doesn't really matter at this point.
Now they are swimming in it.
Just hoping Giants play their hearts out and avoid the humiliation on national TV.
And if they are humiliated...
...well there are just so many beat downs that even John Mara will take before the Tom & Jerry Show is permanently cancelled.
Maybe, just maybe, we'll be pleasantly surprised with Unga. Problem with him is size and also the fact that this is a huge stage to start your first game. Thanks NFL schedulers!!
Unfortunately, true.
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or in coverage is a little misguided. He's definitely bad at that. They're not going to line him up expecting to cover RB and TEs. They spent money to bring in players specifically to do that.
But that the point TTH. You can't be "bad" at something that is a major job responsibility.
And do you really think Offenses cannot figure out ways to take advantage of someone like that, no matter where he lines up?
Jeremiah Trotter made his living as a 260 pound brick wall coming downhill and killing the run. Couldn't cover a lick, and started for championship-caliber teams.
Brandon Jacobs can't catch. Started for years and you can win a championship with him.
You can put players in positions to succeed. I don't think Herzlich would ever see the amount of play time to get stuck in situations where he's targeted and exploited.
If he does the team is screwed anyway.
One of the few stats where we seem to shine and it looks like we will again in 2015.
How is Reese supposed to be build a winning roster if all we do is limp into each sunday looking to fill holes...
The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.
Agree, this team needs to move on from Beason after this season. He's a great warrior, but it seems his body can't take the pounding anymore.
I say play the younglings.......
ILB:
D. Bishop- 2nd team since 2013
D. Ellerbe - 2nd team since 2013
B. Jones
K. Dansby - 2nd team since 2013
R. McClain - 2nd team since 2013
B. Urlacher - retired
B. Scott - retired
T. Spikes - retired
L. Grant out of league in 2013
C. Blackburn
D. Connor
B. James
OLB:
P. Kruger
P. Wheeler - 2nd team since 2013
D. Smith
C. Barwin
K. Burnett
J. Harrison
S. Phillips
N. Barnett
T. howard
M. lawson
This group is as thin as a bar code
The draft that year - Pugh was picked - A. Ogeltree was picked 11 spots later. M. Teo 20 picks later
After Hankins: J. Bostic, J. Collins, A. Brown, S. Moore
After Moore - N. Johnson, Z. Gooden
Again, weak!
In 2011 Beason hurt his Achilles' tendon and only played in one game.
In 2012, he lost his starting job to Kuechly and played in only 4 games
In 2013, in the first two games, he lost his starting job to CHASE BLACKBURN and then was traded to the Giants.
What was Reese thinking? He traded for a player who lost his starting job in two successive years. Gettleman vs Reese? Advantage Gettleman!
In 2011 Beason hurt his Achilles' tendon and only played in one game.
In 2012, he lost his starting job to Kuechly and played in only 4 games
In 2013, in the first two games, he lost his starting job to CHASE BLACKBURN and then was traded to the Giants.
What was Reese thinking? He traded for a player who lost his starting job in two successive years. Gettleman vs Reese? Advantage Gettleman!
It was a gamble. I wasn't for it either but the risk was minimal. It just didn't work out.
At some point you draft a LBs higher in the draft.
And don't tell me the NFL doesn't value the position any longer, because its LBs that get you off the field on 3rd down.
That IS an issue.
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Listed as probable.
MLB Unga (rookie)
SS Collins (rookie)
FS Cooper Taylor (basically a rookie)
This should work out fine...
Probably the same guy starting this Sunday.
I think we should have pursued Dallas's McClain and made him a defensive priority. I would have taken him over the handful of minor league LB's we signed.
Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.
The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.
I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.
That was understandable, but after 2014 and again not being able to stay on the field, 2015 was higher $, higher risk, a real reach.
dorgan: agree--even Romo, should he be flushed from the pocket (we can dream, can't we?), should be able to slide around those two, let alone Randle and McFadden
I predict Beason will not be a Giant for the entire season.
RE: pjcas18
pjcas18 : 2:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 12469265 Eric from BBI said:
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Spags mentioned that as a possibility but Herzlich seems better suited outside (based on what we've seen recently).
Is that true? People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.
Romo sees Herz out there, he passes in his direction....you can't keep him out of coverage unless you can predict every time the Cowboys will run the ball...
Like mentioned before, being available is such a huge aspect to being a good player. Can't rely on Beason anymore. Either he comes back soon and plays out the rest of the season, or cut him.
As for McClain, I think it says something that he has not been picked up yet or rumored to be going anywhere else. Either the injury or performance is not appealing to a lot of teams.
Again, not saying Herzlich can, so maybe you adjust with safety help on the RB/TE when it's clear to be a passing down.
or coach Herzlich up, it's not just a speed thing, Brandon Spikes managed to overcome slowness to a decent job in coverage. And Herzlich is faster than Spikes if you want to call it that.
Holy shit.
Bromley and Nix at DT and Unga at MLB.
Not a Mona Lisa.
And how could you possibly know that this class of Mike LB's is going to be so great when they haven't played a down? If we passed on safety, you would have complained about our lack of safeties and said Collins was there in the 2nd round. Give me a break. For what its worth, Perryman and McKinney have both been less than inspiring thus far.
Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.
The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.
I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.
Ok, what LB would you have taken with that pick. Because unless you found a starter we are in the same place.
Said with tongue in cheek?
nothing like being underdogs.
God Goog they aren't even on the field on third down....it's pass rushers and cover corners that get you off the field, LB'er's are off the field.
I don't want to sound like a defeatist but there are very few games on the schedule that I put as much emphasis on as I do with any Dallas game and when you couple that with it being game 1 on national tv, well, I feel like the news on these 2 is much more than a body blow. Fuuuuuck!!!
But I think the number is correct. As I understand the reworking of his contract, he has to be active to collect his $87.5K per-game bonus. I don't believe it's sufficient to just be on the roster. Most of that incentive was classified as NLTBE, so something like the first twelve games he misses are effectively a direct cap credit in 2016.
nothing like being underdogs.
Who says he'll show his face?
Rey Maualuga signed 2 year deal for $6.5M
Jasper Brinkley
Also available as FAs to play OLB were:
Connor Barwin- how would you like him blitzing from the outside?
Jonathan Casillas
DeAndre Levy
Geno Hayes
Maualuga to handle the inside running game would be nice. Wound up with Brinkley anyway. But Maualuga and Barwin and Kennard would have made a nice trio of LBs.
I have not expected anything out of Cruz all along and really doubt he will ever be near the player he was.
Who is Giants replacement slot guy? How did Reese not see this coming?
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7th pick the Giants gave to the Panthers for Beason.
Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.
The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.
I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.
Ok, what LB would you have taken with that pick. Because unless you found a starter we are in the same place.
You may want to think about it like this. If Beason is done, we have gotten nothing, and have nothing for next year. Isn't that the real problem? I thought the idea was to use the draft to develop players to start and produce, seems like this team over the last few years have become an elephant graveyard of has beens, meanwhile we can't draft players either that have any value or impact. What is maddening is if Beason is gone next year, we start with NOTHING....don't get me started on some of the other positions.
What was Rese thinking of?
Who is Giants replacement slot guy? How did Reese not see this coming?
So Cruz got injured during the season last year and Reese should have already replaced maybe the best slot guy in the league. You can't make this stuff up folks.
And
So, for sure no LJ and probably no Beason. Worse off than before the trade for Beason.
What was Rese thinking of?
But it has clearly not worked out well as we have only gotten 2/3 of a season out of Beason.
Maybe they should have tied his salary into games played. I'm not happy at all. When he's healthy he's quite good. When he's healthy.
Beason and Schwartz should start a club.
Next??? How about "still"
YOu can see plain as day on there how many games a player dressed for and started. NOt many for Schwartz nor Beason in years leading up to their acquisitions. 1 and 4 games of each resp. for Beason in 2011 and 2012, Schwartz dressed for 29 of 48 games and started only 7 in 2010, 2011 and 2012.
YOu can see plain as day on there how many games a player dressed for and started. NOt many for Schwartz nor Beason in years leading up to their acquisitions. 1 and 4 games of each resp. for Beason in 2011 and 2012, Schwartz dressed for 29 of 48 games and started only 7 in 2010, 2011 and 2012.
No 7th Round pick. Players available at the time we could have drafted in the order drafted are:
Jabari Price- taken with our pick and viewed as a ST player at this time.
Jeff Janis- 4th WR for Packers
Seantrel Henderson- starting RT for the Bills
Demetrius Rhaney- back-up C for the Rams
Ken Bishop- backup DT for the Cowboys. Maybe we'll see him tomorrow night.
Terrance Mitchell- starting WR for the Cowboys. For sure we'll see him tomorrow night.
Lonnie Balantine- starting Safety for the Texans
So, 3 starters and the others are backups. Of the 3 starters, one is a RT and the other a Safety, positions where we could have used help this year.
Beason was traded to play MLB. His contract is 4 years $17m and $6.03 guaranteed. Rey Maualuga was then available for a 2 year contract and $6.5M- he was recently extended for 4 years and $15M. I guess the Bengals think he's played pretty well. Also available at same time was Jasper Brinkley, who is currently on the Giants.
Finally, we let LJ walk because we wanted Beason instead.
So, a disastrous trade considering the players we could have selected with the 7th pick, terrible contract for Beason and LJ is gone. Reese hit the trifecta but in the wrong direction.