Cruz and Beason OUT for Sunday

In comment 12469348 Big Blue '56 said:

Quote:

pretty good..Too slow, lousy in coverage.. Either go with Herz or Unga and suck it up..Perhaps Brinkley can see some snaps if he's at all ready

Well, he wasn't supposed to play MIKE. Beason was out. McClain had the best season of his career playing there though.

In comment 12469172 Beezer said:

Quote:

Next men up. Let's GO!!!

there we go!

Whats the difference...

I've been rooting for him since he got here and am glad to see him start.

I just disagree with McClain being worse than Herzlich but it doesn't really matter at this point.

...about this game many, many weeks ago.

Now they are swimming in it.

Just hoping Giants play their hearts out and avoid the humiliation on national TV.

And if they are humiliated...

...well there are just so many beat downs that even John Mara will take before the Tom & Jerry Show is permanently cancelled.

In comment 12469333 Bill in UT said:

Quote:

rather than waste the year plugging in a mediocre stopgap like Herzlich or McClain.

Maybe, just maybe, we'll be pleasantly surprised with Unga. Problem with him is size and also the fact that this is a huge stage to start your first game. Thanks NFL schedulers!!

In comment 12469260 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

way too premature to talk about Cruz getting cut, but he makes WAY too much money for even an "above average" player. Unless he regains his magic, he will have to take a pay cut or be cut.

Unfortunately, true.

last season. He should be starting. At least on first and second down.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12469347 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 12469332 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: or in coverage is a little misguided. He's definitely bad at that. They're not going to line him up expecting to cover RB and TEs. They spent money to bring in players specifically to do that. But that the point TTH. You can't be "bad" at something that is a major job responsibility. And do you really think Offenses cannot figure out ways to take advantage of someone like that, no matter where he lines up?

Jeremiah Trotter made his living as a 260 pound brick wall coming downhill and killing the run. Couldn't cover a lick, and started for championship-caliber teams.

Brandon Jacobs can't catch. Started for years and you can win a championship with him.

You can put players in positions to succeed. I don't think Herzlich would ever see the amount of play time to get stuck in situations where he's targeted and exploited.

If he does the team is screwed anyway.

which measures games missed by starters?

One of the few stats where we seem to shine and it looks like we will again in 2015.

How is Reese supposed to be build a winning roster if all we do is limp into each sunday looking to fill holes...

In comment 12469311 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

obvious that trading for Beason was a mistake (and again, I don't buy it was only a 7th rounder argument...see Bradshaw and maybe even Bobby Hart). The guy hurt his knee on the play where he did nice job covering a back out of the backfield. He simply hit the ground after knocking the pass away. He's fragile as glass now.

Agree, this team needs to move on from Beason after this season. He's a great warrior, but it seems his body can't take the pounding anymore.

I'm actually at the point where even if he is in there, is age/detoriation/injuries just making him a below average player? And ultimately, hurting the defense?

I say play the younglings.......

.

Giving him the money turns out to be a poor decision. Look back at the FA LB's in 2013 and the drafted LB's - bad

ILB:

D. Bishop- 2nd team since 2013
D. Ellerbe - 2nd team since 2013
B. Jones
K. Dansby - 2nd team since 2013
R. McClain - 2nd team since 2013
B. Urlacher - retired
B. Scott - retired
T. Spikes - retired
L. Grant out of league in 2013
C. Blackburn
D. Connor
B. James

OLB:

P. Kruger
P. Wheeler - 2nd team since 2013
D. Smith
C. Barwin
K. Burnett
J. Harrison
S. Phillips
N. Barnett
T. howard
M. lawson

This group is as thin as a bar code

The draft that year - Pugh was picked - A. Ogeltree was picked 11 spots later. M. Teo 20 picks later

After Hankins: J. Bostic, J. Collins, A. Brown, S. Moore

After Moore - N. Johnson, Z. Gooden

Again, weak!

Unga and not Herzlich at Mike.

re-signed Beason when his contract expired. While that's a good question, a better question is why did Reese trade for him in the first place, given Beason's history in 2011, 2012 and 2013 with the Panthers.

In 2011 Beason hurt his Achilles' tendon and only played in one game.
In 2012, he lost his starting job to Kuechly and played in only 4 games
In 2013, in the first two games, he lost his starting job to CHASE BLACKBURN and then was traded to the Giants.

What was Reese thinking? He traded for a player who lost his starting job in two successive years. Gettleman vs Reese? Advantage Gettleman!

In comment 12469425 Steve Filipowicz said:

Quote:

re-signed Beason when his contract expired. While that's a good question, a better question is why did Reese trade for him in the first place, given Beason's history in 2011, 2012 and 2013 with the Panthers. In 2011 Beason hurt his Achilles' tendon and only played in one game. In 2012, he lost his starting job to Kuechly and played in only 4 games In 2013, in the first two games, he lost his starting job to CHASE BLACKBURN and then was traded to the Giants. What was Reese thinking? He traded for a player who lost his starting job in two successive years. Gettleman vs Reese? Advantage Gettleman!

It was a gamble. I wasn't for it either but the risk was minimal. It just didn't work out.

fair deal knowing the injury risk. Unfortunately looks like we will only enjoy 1 good year out of 3 from him.

At some point you draft a LBs higher in the draft.

And don't tell me the NFL doesn't value the position any longer, because its LBs that get you off the field on 3rd down.

Unga at MIKE flanked by Thomas and Kennard. They are the most talented players.

did play better against the run last year and hasn't been bad this year against the run. The issue is who plays DE on the strong side with him. If it is Herzlich and Jenkins coupled you've got slow and slower on the edge.

That IS an issue.

This is so frustrating...

is out as well. True?
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 12469461 The Turk said:

Quote:

is out as well. True? Link - ( New Window )

Listed as probable.

DT Markus Kuhn (kind of stinks)
MLB Unga (rookie)
SS Collins (rookie)
FS Cooper Taylor (basically a rookie)

This should work out fine...

This is also one of these frustrating things with this staff. He practiced in full pads/contact Wed. Coach comes out and says he is fine, just that he is sore, now he is ruled out on Fri afternoon for the Sunday Night game - WTF

after the draft: Giants are down Beatty and Cruz on offense and JPP, Beason and maybe a safety on defense for this game. Based on lineups as of the date camp opened, however, it is just Beason and Cruz and Cruz was never a sure thing to pay this year anyway. Cowboys are down 3 defensive starters in this game: Scandrick, Hardy and McClain. They have their top 20 offensive players available.

In comment 12469246 ghost718 said:

Quote:

Who would be playing middle linebacker for the Giants? Probably the same guy starting this Sunday.

I think we should have pursued Dallas's McClain and made him a defensive priority. I would have taken him over the handful of minor league LB's we signed.

7th pick the Giants gave to the Panthers for Beason.

Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014.

The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI.

I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.

In comment 12469300 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

I wasn't a big fan of his game, but he did play better last year and it has continued this year. You don't want him in space covering people, but he's pretty stout against the run.

That's great if you happen to know the other team is going to run. Bad if the other team has the option to employ the forward pass. He can't cover his grandmother.

suspended for a month?

Curtis: "It was a gamble. I wasn't for it either but the risk was minimal. It just didn't work out."
That was understandable, but after 2014 and again not being able to stay on the field, 2015 was higher $, higher risk, a real reach.

dorgan: agree--even Romo, should he be flushed from the pocket (we can dream, can't we?), should be able to slide around those two, let alone Randle and McFadden

Thank God for his immaculate Special Teams play which has helped immensely! Truly worth keeping all these years for his ST's play. I know it's not 100% related to this situation, but had to get that out of my system. Sorry.

This will be a familiar headline on fridays

they traded up to take an average Safety while bypassing one of the best Mike LB's in recent years.

a move they will regret for decades

I know management values leadership in its players and the catch phrase for Beason is he's a team leader. But I believe having your key players unable to play due to injuries just demoralizes the whole team.

I predict Beason will not be a Giant for the entire season.

Linval we hardly knew, ya....

RE: pjcas18
pjcas18 : 2:17 pm : link : reply
In comment 12469265 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Spags mentioned that as a possibility but Herzlich seems better suited outside (based on what we've seen recently).


Is that true? People like to hate him, but Herzlich looked very good against the run last year. Keep him out of coverage, or don't let him cover Cole Beasley or Witten and it won't be an issue.

Romo sees Herz out there, he passes in his direction....you can't keep him out of coverage unless you can predict every time the Cowboys will run the ball...

But this next comeback from injury (if he ever comes back) better be his last. I was hoping he had one more solid year in him, but I am not sure that is in the cards.

Like mentioned before, being available is such a huge aspect to being a good player. Can't rely on Beason anymore. Either he comes back soon and plays out the rest of the season, or cut him.

As for McClain, I think it says something that he has not been picked up yet or rumored to be going anywhere else. Either the injury or performance is not appealing to a lot of teams.

Our Jerrah made the statement years ago that Giant fans overrate LB's, he continues to demonstrate that they have little value in his evaluation.

but the number of linebackers who can legit cover a RB or TE is limited to very few.

Again, not saying Herzlich can, so maybe you adjust with safety help on the RB/TE when it's clear to be a passing down.

or coach Herzlich up, it's not just a speed thing, Brandon Spikes managed to overcome slowness to a decent job in coverage. And Herzlich is faster than Spikes if you want to call it that.

to play full-time. But, I guess it's too early to throw Brinkley in on 1st downs. I don't want to see Herzlich out there under any circumstances.

needs to put the kibosh on this "The Return" crap too.

In comment 12469505 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

they traded up to take an average Safety while bypassing one of the best Mike LB's in recent years.

Holy shit.

surprised or even mad about the Beason injury, it's pretty much par for the course. If anything, this will give some of the other guys a chance to step up and see what they have. How much better is a 80% Beason than a 100% Unga out there?

And it was separate incidents that we didn't need to worry about. Smh. The guy is a gimp. A talented gimp, but a gimp nonetheless. Time to make a trade or scour the waiver wire for a replacement. One on who you can count on playing. I like Unga but he isn't ready. I actually like Farrand too. He has a nose for the ball that a Mike should have.

DTs, then picture this:

Bromley and Nix at DT and Unga at MLB.

Not a Mona Lisa.

no amount of sarcasm changes that.

In comment 12469505 BigBlueCane said:

Quote:

they traded up to take an average Safety while bypassing one of the best Mike LB's in recent years.

And how could you possibly know that this class of Mike LB's is going to be so great when they haven't played a down? If we passed on safety, you would have complained about our lack of safeties and said Collins was there in the 2nd round. Give me a break. For what its worth, Perryman and McKinney have both been less than inspiring thus far.

In comment 12469487 Steve Filipowicz said:

Quote:

7th pick the Giants gave to the Panthers for Beason. Gettleman gave the Panthers 5th pick and the Giants 7th pick to the Vikes and selected Benefit Benwerike. Even though PFF is not Holy Scripture, they rated Benwerike as the best rookie DB in 2014. The Vikes used the Giants 7th pick to select Jabari Price, a CB who is viewed as a good ST player based on his first year in 2014. He is serving a 2 game suspension for pleading guilty to DWI. I would have liked to have kept that 7th pick.

Ok, what LB would you have taken with that pick. Because unless you found a starter we are in the same place.

An extra $87,500 in cap space for 2016.