Still can't believe they waived James Jones. And now with Cruz potentially out for the 1st quarter of the season the decision is magnified. Jones is a PROVEN and reliable outside receiver who had 14 TDs just two seasons ago. I think it's certainly debatable whether he's even a better option than the erratic Rueben Randle as a complement to OBJ as the other outside receiver.
With a shoutout coming on Sunday, and now officially without Cruz, you're telling me that this team isnt better off with James Jones as an option to be an important contributor? Puts SO much more of a reliance on Randle and I'm sorry but in my book that's not a comfortable place to be.
Really bizarre decision by the Giants. The Packers must have felt like it was Christmas in September. I'm sure many here agree, but for any of the organization lap dogs who will protest this notion, I challenge any of you to a debate on this topic, it makes sense in no way, shape or form.
The Packers' decision to sign him had more to do with familiarity and lack of confidence in Janis and Montgomery than his upside/play making ability. IMHO of course.
- he is on wrong side of 30 years old
-no separation against backups all season
Plus you can line up vereen in the slot as well
Agreed fiddy..
Stand up and take a bow ..you have just won the dumbest post of the year award ..come on down and get your prize!!!
What would his role have been? He doesn't play specials and we have Vereen and Jennings who both catch out of the backfield and Donnell for the short game that Jones maybe could have done. Vereen, Jennings and Donnell will probably have 150 catches between them. Beckham and Randle had 160 between them last season. That's over 300 receptions that are headed for those 5 guys. Just how many times was Eli going to be looking in Jones' direction?
The Packers are desperate. Nelson gone, Cobb with a bum shoulder and a bunch of kids. Jones knows the offense so maybe he made some sense for them. He made no sense for us.
Parker plays special teams, and may be a better slot receiver than Jones - Cruz was hurting - so I can see it there.
I would have kept Jones and cut Parker but it wasn't stupid. In the games I saw Jones make some plays BUT also did nit give a good effort on the int that was returned fora TD, Gave up on a go route when he was not the primary receiver and the QB came back to him late.
I think he will do well in GB but that does not nean he woukldhave done well on the Giants
It doesn't make sense for a) him to want to stay here and be the 4th or 5th WR or b) the Giants to pay him to do it when Jones being 31 years old, Geremy Davis probably has more upside.
I have zero problem letting Jones go, and I wouldn't be that surprised if he quietly asked for his release when he realized where he was on the depth chart.
Tease brings 'em in. Coughlin separates the wheat from the chafe. It was a Coughlin move, dummy.
I think he will do well in GB but that does not nean he woukld have done well on the Giants
This as well. Randle was going to be, and should be, the 2nd outside wr.
They are two journeymen. Some folk are upset because we ditched a guy we don't know and kept one we do even though the one we kept has more versatility, is a better fit to spell cruz, and has done ok for us (not great, but ok).
I always thought the pickup was lackluster, so no real big deal when he didn't set the world on fire.
Johnny Boy : 6:38 pm : link : reply
This has the moronic finger prints of our brainiac GM all over the move. He's been grasping at straws for 3 seasons and really is way over his pay grade in this job. This was not a TC move.
You have Johnny Boy, Hem Roid, Steve Filipowitz, Bayernwhateverthefuck, and a couple others who all seemed to have joined around the same time and who use almost each and every post to tell the board just how shitty Reese is. Since they really can't discuss a subject without bringing Reese into the fray (hell, one of the fucks even blamed Reese on the Eli is worse than Ben thread), it is almost like we have one poster with multiple handles trying to be a one-trick pony, or you have some like-minded morons all who exist solely to bash the GM.
It is fucking bizarre.
Fuckin Julian Talley doesnt make a difference in that scenario, which is now reality with Cruz OUT indefinitely. He has no value in NFL Regular Season Game 1. James Jones does. You plug him in week 1 and he is a positive contributor. As much as I like the promise of Geremy Davis, he cannot contribute to Jones level in week 1. Same with Parker who is not a young developing player, and same with Harris who in my option is not an NFL caliber receiver. He's a special teams returner and the Giants foolishly paid him like a #2 WR.NFL Regular Season Game 1.
And for those couple of idiots who have been saying, 'Jones showed nothing in the preseason...he can't separate, wasn't productive, etc. JAMES JONES LEAD THE GIANTS IN RECEPTIONS AND YARDS BY A WIDE MARGIN. And that's playing with Nassib and Ricky Stanzi for the most part. The weirdest part of this, and what confirms for me that this is being considered internally as a mistake...is that the official Giants stats website doesn't include Jones' preseason stats (which would have led the team and made them look foolish in retrospect), even though this list includes other waived players such as Washington and Robinson.
And why is this team starting a TE who played his way to the bench down the stretch last year?
And why is this team starting a DT who gets pushed around most of the time, and on the rare occasion that he's in on a tackle, it is ten yards down field?
And why is this team still screwing around with trying to start an over-the-hill MLB who can't stay on the field?
And why does this team have to find most of its starting LBs from guys other teams don't want, anyway?
And why did this team sign a punter that another team dropped because he is an inconsistent kicker and an very questionable holder?
I could go on, but I think you get my point.
And just for the record, I think keeping Parker and Davis over Jones was the right decision, anyway. Parker and Davis help on specials, and Parker is as good a receiver as Jones is at this point. Jones has always had episodes of the dropsies.
Jones was the slot receiver most of the time in Oakland last year, and yes, he caught 70 passes, but they were a very hollow 70 passes, much like Brandon Myers 70 receptions in Oakland. he averaged 9.0 ypc, which is not a good ypc.
Jones is best suited outside, but doesn't have great speed, he's not going to be outside ahead of Beckham or Randle. So then you're basically comparing Jones' upside to that of Geremy Davis and Preston Parker and as others have mentioned, your #3, 4, etc. receivers have to play special teams. And Jones just doesn't.
He is not a good fit here and losing Cruz doesn't make him any more of a good fit. With Cruz, he's just surplus.
I ask that both ability-wise and health wise.
What I don't believe is that James Jones contributes much in place of any of those three at this point in his career.
I ask that both ability-wise and health wise.
Let me answer that with two questions. Wait, so you are comfortable with Cruz, no questions or backup plan needed? Are you more comfortable with Cruz or Randle contributing in Week 1? Bonus question: Which one do you feel will be a bigger contibutor for the 2015 season?
The 4-6th WR need to be contributors on ST, Parker/Davis/Harris are key ST contributors.
Jones is not a slot receiver.
It is amazing to me that the year hasn't even started and people are saying things like "Reese should be fired" and acting as if the year is already over.
Has to be either a slew of trolls or a ton of fucking morons.
Unfortunately, given BBI's past level of analysis on matters like this, it really isn't evident which one it is.
So, it doesnt make that much difference. But it is odd to release Jones when Cruz can't play.
Keep a veteran and TC/Reese are overly loyal to veterans.
Cut the veteran and it's Reese and TC are idiots for not going into the season with a proven veteran backup.
they really can't win no matter what they do.
And I'm not generally an overly optimistic supporter of the team, but this is just over the top now.
It is like people bitch and moan for the sake of it.
Jones was picked up by Packers only because they were thin. Looks like it's a one year contract at Vet. Minimum. Think this tells you how much of a future, they think he has left.
Its like arguing why we cut Stevie Brown when we have injuries at Cornerback. They are different positions.
But I completely reject the notion that they help more than Jones tomorrow night when the offense is going to need to keep pace with an opponent that is more than likely going to put up 40+ points. At this time of year you need production, not promise.
But I completely reject the notion that they help more than Jones tomorrow night when the offense is going to need to keep pace with an opponent that is more than likely going to put up 40+ points. At this time of year you need production, not promise.
In what a 4 WR formation?
In 2 WR sets it's Beckham and Randle. Parker comes in to play the slot in 3 WR sets. In a 4WR set, yes maybe Jones was that guy, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Vereen split out wide over the 4th WR just to give more options.
Bottom line is he could play both positions, and with Cruz out he would be one of the top 3 talents at WR to play for the team tomorrow. I dont see him as more than a year or 2 stopgap, but he could have helped this year- more than the mediocre and less accomplished talent they kept in his stead.
Why is it essential to hold onto Parker? How many guys at all positions can you make the special teams excuse for. And by the way they just paid $7M a year for a backup WR that focuses on Special Teams. Shockingly unusual personnel move in light of the circumstances.
He was playing outside all preseason because, wait for it, Rueben Randle was sidelined for over a month with a chronic physical condition.
When you say this stuff out loud it hits you more than ever- you can't make this stuff up. This is a personnel failure by Coughlin and staff- they over thought it and outsmarted themselves. And I'm a Coughlin fan.
Bottom line is he could play both positions, and with Cruz out he would be one of the top 3 talents at WR to play for the team tomorrow. I dont see him as more than a year or 2 stopgap, but he could have helped this year- more than the mediocre and less accomplished talent they kept in his stead.
Why is it essential to hold onto Parker? How many guys at all positions can you make the special teams excuse for. And by the way they just paid $7M a year for a backup WR that focuses on Special Teams. Shockingly unusual personnel move in light of the circumstances.
Jones sporadically played the slot last year, and results were just not good. He's not a shifty, possession guy that can read a safety like you want in the slot.
It's just not a good fit for him.
It's why the Raiders showed no interest in retaining him this year and got two receivers capable of being slot receivers.
Quote:
I agree with your assessment totally.
Johnny Boy : 6:38 pm : link : reply
This has the moronic finger prints of our brainiac GM all over the move. He's been grasping at straws for 3 seasons and really is way over his pay grade in this job. This was not a TC move.
You have Johnny Boy, Hem Roid, Steve Filipowitz, Bayernwhateverthefuck, and a couple others who all seemed to have joined around the same time and who use almost each and every post to tell the board just how shitty Reese is. Since they really can't discuss a subject without bringing Reese into the fray (hell, one of the fucks even blamed Reese on the Eli is worse than Ben thread), it is almost like we have one poster with multiple handles trying to be a one-trick pony, or you have some like-minded morons all who exist solely to bash the GM.
It is fucking bizarre.
Add Mister Charming to that list. Dupes.
“That’s not where my strengths are at," Jones said. "I do whatever the coach tells me to do and, with a young quarterback in Derek Carr, they felt like having me in the slot would best suit him. I did what they wanted me to do. I believe I’m stronger on the outside. That’s where I do all my damage, making tough catches in traffic."
How does that make sense if Jones was so good? Jones had more catches than Crabtree last year.
Please tell me who you'd argue is more top 3 than Jones. I seriously need to hear it.
Please tell me who you'd argue is more top 3 than Jones. I seriously need to hear it.
If Jones is the third WR, who is in the slot?
That is the point. Or are you saying a 3 WR set doesn't have a slot guy.
My point is Preston Parker is a better slot WR than James Jones.
Neither Beckham or Randle play the slot, so if you have 3 WR's on the field Jones wouldn't be one of them unless he's in the slot.
he wouldn't be on the field, unless there is an injury until a 4 WR formation.
That's all I'm saying.
If we can get obj, Randle outside, cruz in slot... you know the rest
Decisions are made with the present and future in mind. Keeping Davis after his camp was the right move.
Board finds a preseason hero to worship every year like clockwork. And who says Cruz is out for a quarter of the season. Cite your source.
He was playing outside all preseason because, wait for it, Rueben Randle was sidelined for over a month with a chronic physical condition.
When you say this stuff out loud it hits you more than ever- you can't make this stuff up. This is a personnel failure by Coughlin and staff- they over thought it and outsmarted themselves. And I'm a Coughlin fan.
Randle is health and going to be on the field for Week 1, so what's your point about his injury? His 'chronic' injury he's never missed a game for, it's something he's managed since college. If the games counted I don't think he would've missed nearly as much.
The passing game is going to be fine, Cruz or not, contrary to the belief Jones will save the day. OBJ, RANDLE, VEREEN, DONNELL, Parker, gonna do work. The D and run game, you should spend more time worrying about those, that's the real issue and where we need someone to step up. Maybe Jones can play safety? that would be good.
Quote:
Still, it came as a shock that Jones would spend only one year as a Raider. He said the team played him out of position -- in the slot, where he's less comfortable -- and that contributed to his dip in receptions.
“That’s not where my strengths are at," Jones said. "I do whatever the coach tells me to do and, with a young quarterback in Derek Carr, they felt like having me in the slot would best suit him. I did what they wanted me to do. I believe I’m stronger on the outside. That’s where I do all my damage, making tough catches in traffic."
Interesting, well that's kind of important that he admits he's not good in the slot. He's an outside wr miscast in the slot, and he'll play outside in GB while Cobb lines up in the slot.
#1, we can play slot if they needed him there as evidenced by 73 rec / 6 TDs for a terrible team in OAK with a rookie QB. Those stats are better than anything Parker would dream of producing, and they'd be better with Manning and the Giants O. Those comments from Jones about the outside being his strength are because stud WRs always *want* to play the outside; the slot is typically frowned upon as being limiting of their abilities.
2) successful teams keep the best players, period. James Jones, with the injury to Cruz, would be a top 3 talent available for the Giants with regards to their most immediate needs and goals, which is to try and beat the Cowboys on Sunday Night. Here's the end of the argument: if you disagree with that statement, please tell us who is better and knocks him out of the top 3.
That is more than any Giants TE in history for one season.
by your logic, Brandon Myers is the best TE in Giants history.
We know that's not true. Bottom line is James Jones is not good for a lot of reasons, because he caught 73 passes (for a terrible Raiders team, no idea why that point is required, tons of "terrible" teams have players with stats, in fact the point they were terrible probably puts some perspective on his 73 receptions) last year does not make him good.
And
Jones can't play the slot- would be a waste of a roster spot because they already have Preston Parker (?) in that spot, and Rueben Randle on the outside (?)....
And you dispute those lazy blanket statements by disproving it by recent performance metrics...the guy says 'your over emphasizing statistics.'
the guy had no interest from 30 other teams, but he's the difference maker for the Giants. Ok. No idea why you picked this bone to get rabid about but I'm not going to debate it.
the Giants will lose tonight and the season is on the brink, because they don't have James Jones to be the 3rd or 4th WR.
the Giants will lose tonight and the season is on the brink, because they don't have James Jones to be the 3rd or 4th WR.
That remains to be seen, but what is evident is that if the Packers win, it will indeed be because of James Jones.
What?
Quote:
the Giants will lose tonight and the season is on the brink, because they don't have James Jones to be the 3rd or 4th WR.
That remains to be seen, but what is evident is that if the Packers win, it will indeed be because of James Jones.
Yes, it'll be because of James Jones and not the best QB in the league.
If we beat the Cows though, it will help tamp down the almost inevitable vitriol.
2. Two of our worst plays on O were heavily him - Eli's pick 6 (not ALL JJ, but still) and his fumble. IMO THAT is JJ - big games like today, then multiple drops / mistakes like our preseason game (in spite of decent play otherwise)
Then as posted by many & I've mentioned on other threads there's added value as a trusted PRer (McQuarters & Madison iirc were in a similar boat w/ TC) & a slot capable backup. They kind of had to take Parker for those reasons. Also Davis played much the same role as JJ with similar success in preseason