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Is Rueben Randle hurt or not?

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/21/2015 8:11 am
Paul Schwartz & #8207;@NYPost_Schwartz 46m46 minutes ago Manhattan, NY

Problem: Reuben Randle was on field for 68 of 71 offensive snaps. Two targets, one catch (5 yards) starting in place of Victor Cruz.


I keep reading posts that it is "well known" that Randle is not well. Based on what? The knee tendinitis that bothered him in the preseason?

It's possible, but he has not appeared on any injury report since the season started. He has not missed practice or even been limited in practice. As you can see above, he was in on 96 percent of the offensive snaps on Sunday. The Giants knew they had an issue with Cruz. If they also felt they had an issue with Randle, would they have cut James Jones? I've seen no quotes from Randle that say he is having a physical problem.

Perhaps his knees are bothering him, but I would not automatically assume his non-productivity is due to that.
Yes he is hurt  
dep026 : 9/21/2015 8:12 am : link
and yes he also stinks.
It looks as though  
Funkhouser : 9/21/2015 8:15 am : link
he could give 2 shits about what is going on around him. To say his effort is lacking is being kind. If he's hurt, then don't play him.
Randle is a similiar tease  
jvm52106 : 9/21/2015 8:17 am : link
as Odessa Turner but without the injuries. Turner would put up a game where he would have 8 catches, 100+ yards and a score, then get hurt. Randle has put up some games (end of last year) where you think he has turned the corner and then bamm, disappears again.

This offense isn't working right now because we have players who just don't produce when needed. Garbage time or when the game is somewhat out of control doesn't count.

The Giants made a huge mistake counting on a return to health of Victor Cruz and expecting Randle to step up and be the #3 (or #2 if Cruz wasn't ready to go). Add in the joke that is Preston Parker and this "juggernaut" of an offense is nothing more than offensively bad when absolutely needed.
Forget the James Jones over Parker discussion  
jlukes : 9/21/2015 8:17 am : link
Jones should have been kept over Randle.
Yes, those 71 catches and near 1000 yards  
HomerJones45 : 9/21/2015 8:18 am : link
he had last year are certainly the signs of a receiver who stinks. He should be able to manufacture a half dozen catches out of the two targets he got yesterday.
They desperately need a viable 2nd option...  
Dunedin81 : 9/21/2015 8:18 am : link
the TEs are okay, certainly not great, and Vereen is a good pass-catching back, but when he's in the backfield it telegraphs pass.
He'd have to be hurt, right?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 9/21/2015 8:18 am : link
It's a contract year.
He has been a non factor in games......  
Doomster : 9/21/2015 8:19 am : link
In the second half, he was targeted twice in a row, a drop and a catch for 5 yards....that's it....

Why is Eli not looking in his direction? Because he is not getting open? If he isn't, replace him.....because of this we are forcing the ball to Parker and Donnell.....

Is it the knees, or is it an attitude problem...whatever it is, the "effort" just doesn't look like it is there....

So why hasn't Harris and Davis been used more?....well, we spread Harris out, and he causes a penalty and we don't convert a fourth down.....he is also slipping all over the field......Davis did get into the game, but I think only had one target....
RE: He'd have to be hurt, right?  
Curtis in VA : 9/21/2015 8:20 am : link
In comment 12496091 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
It's a contract year.


Well, Randle did draw comparisons to Nicks for his style of play.
Cutting aJames Jones is the biggest head scratchers  
BlueHurricane : 9/21/2015 8:21 am : link
I can remember with this team.
RE: Cutting aJames Jones is the biggest head scratchers  
Curtis in VA : 9/21/2015 8:22 am : link
In comment 12496099 BlueHurricane said:
Quote:
I can remember with this team.


There have been a few of them this offseason.
RE: He has been a non factor in games......  
Funkhouser : 9/21/2015 8:23 am : link
In comment 12496093 Doomster said:
Quote:
In the second half, he was targeted twice in a row, a drop and a catch for 5 yards....that's it....

Why is Eli not looking in his direction? Because he is not getting open? If he isn't, replace him.....because of this we are forcing the ball to Parker and Donnell.....

Is it the knees, or is it an attitude problem...whatever it is, the "effort" just doesn't look like it is there....

So why hasn't Harris and Davis been used more?....well, we spread Harris out, and he causes a penalty and we don't convert a fourth down.....he is also slipping all over the field......Davis did get into the game, but I think only had one target....


It's easy to say replace him, but with whom? Parker should be collecting shopping carts, and the others aren't much better. Maybe play an extra lineman.
Thoughts on RR  
CromartiesKid21 : 9/21/2015 8:23 am : link
If he's hurt please take him out TC. I'm still wondering when a WR opposite OBJ will show up to play this 2015 season.

Gripes with RR...
- The talks of his "promise" or the defense "he's only 24 year's old". We've seen enough, consistency will never float Randle's boat.
- Reports of his lack of focus from the get-go of his career after coming out as a "polished" "start from day 1" WR.
- Slow learning Gilbride's option routes. Your a top round pick from powerhouse pro-offense LSU, a UDFA like Victor Cruz walks in the door and sets the world on fire next to you in the same system.
- Miscommunications with Eli has led to numerous INTs and blown plays over the seasons.
- Arthritic knees, not worth a long term deal. Reese better not have a tinkle in his balls to bring back another failed draft pick.

Forget James Jones, the older vet hold-over to right the ship for a playoff run ain't happening.
Get Geremy Davis out there, maybe he will show a pulse because Randle's one stopped beating over the offseason.
another high draft pick who  
sundayatone : 9/21/2015 8:24 am : link
will not get a 2nd contract from the giants.
Either way the Giants screwed up  
nyynyg : 9/21/2015 8:24 am : link
Jones should have been kept.

I don't see a) how Randle could plummet to invisible this year without injury and b) how he could show no indication of ineffectiveness in the pre-season for the staff to plan accordingly.

Either way, coaching mistake...again.
Eric  
Dragon : 9/21/2015 8:27 am : link
RR has 7 total targets in two games just two in yesterdays game but he is by all accounts the second primary target on this team. Is he hurt I would have to say no but this is how this team has used him mostly for years but he has remained silent. Eli has forced the ball to OBJ more than seven times this season already for sure but only once maybe to RR. Our offense has not been even close to being consistent in any aspect so who is to blame it's hard to tell.
Randle is hurt and they screwed up the Cruz injury  
Mason : 9/21/2015 8:27 am : link
They anticipated Cruz would be ready to go by week 1 as Coughlin said many times during the beginning of preseason. In fact Randle was hurried back when they found out that Cruz couldn't even go in the Jets preseason game.

Not a single person had Cruz coming back at week 4 a month ago.
You  
AcidTest : 9/21/2015 8:29 am : link
make a good argument that given his snaps that might not be hurt. We have no receiving targets aside from Beckham, so Randle is getting a lot more attention. But that was true last year after Cruz went on IR, and Randle had some big games after Cruz was hurt IIRC.

But I think his knees are bothering him more than we know. He just doesn't seem to be moving well. He does have tendinitis, and it only takes a slight diminution in ability to prevent a WR from being able to separate from defensive backs in this league. And Randle never got a lot of separation anyway.

But whatever the reason, he isn't productive right now. Eli doesn't seem to even be looking for him. His lack of production means he should be benched. Not knowing exactly why he isn't productive shouldn't prevent that from happening.
Look at the game yesterday  
Mason : 9/21/2015 8:31 am : link
He was grimacing on his drop and his catch.
They need to just shut him down if his knees are messed up.  
Curtis in VA : 9/21/2015 8:31 am : link
Just stop the madness. Shut him down and either give someone else a chance to play big or bring in a free agent wideout. There is no point in him playing if he isn't going to be productive. This team has enough problems already.
RE: Look at the game yesterday  
bigbluescot : 9/21/2015 8:32 am : link
In comment 12496116 Mason said:
Quote:
He was grimacing on his drop and his catch.


He was also visibly limping on the side lines vs Dallas.
He's  
dorgan : 9/21/2015 8:44 am : link
not getting any separation. Probably healthy enough to play, but only at a 75% level.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but the problem is obvious.
We got 23 yards of production out of our # 2 and #3 receivers combined.

Parker can get open but he can't catch. Randle can't get open. He's definitely hurting.

Eli's completion percent yesterday was 67% playing with limited skill players and a makeshift OL.
Not convinced you can put the blame for that loss on him.

After reading BBI this morning, I'm sure I'm in a minority. However, a look at the facts bear out my opinion.

Randle was out there basically as a decoy yesterday  
Giants4246 : 9/21/2015 8:46 am : link
Get him the fuck outta there if he can't play.
A month ago this was the report for the Jets game  
Mason : 9/21/2015 8:48 am : link
Quote:
WR Victor Cruz (calf) ‐ Even after Cruz said last week the injury was minor and he would be back at practice Tuesday, Coughlin wouldn't commit to that on Sunday.

WR Rueben Randle (knee) ‐ This one has Coughlin "confused." Randle has been able to manage knee tendonitis in the past. Not so much this time around. Coughlin couldn't provide an answer on whether Randle would return to practice this week.


Around the time Jones was cut.
Eric...i agree with you in terms of there is no evidence  
Thats Gold, Jerry : 9/21/2015 8:53 am : link
he is hurt therefore the only assumption has to be that his continued lack of production is a continuation of what we have seen from him since he came into the league.

Until someone informs us differently, with hard evidence, there is no other logical conclusion to draw. To me, he is a total non-factor...certainly defenses are not scared of him and, in my mind, he is a waste of talent.

That being said, there are some very serious questions over the Giants decision making in player personnel issues. Keeping and starting Randle is just one of them. Not keeping James Jones is another. Keeping Markus Kuhn, deciding to stay with Beason who is an injury waiting to happen and on and on.

Trying to stay positive but it's difficult when guys who are starting and playing are simply not productive. One would even have to question the wisdom of starting Jennings. He is a non factor.
Wait  
Bernie : 9/21/2015 8:54 am : link
If Randle was starting for Cruz, that means when Cruz comes back, the Giants starting 3 WR's will be OBJ, Cruz and Parker. How can Parker not be getting ready to hit the street with Rueben right along side? I agree, might as well play Davis or Harris.
John Lynch made a reference in yesterday's broadcast  
Section331 : 9/21/2015 8:57 am : link
that Eli likes to get Randle involved early, to give him confidence, and I think Lynch is absolutely correct. I don't know if it's a lack of confidence, or a lack of effort, but he has to shake out of his malaise.
We have known  
Sarasota-Phil : 9/21/2015 9:00 am : link
since the preseason that he was gimpy. Still the coaching staff and GM decided to let James Jones walk to do him and Green Bay a favor. Why??? The level of incompetence is just staggering with this team.

Failure from the top down. Mara's loyalty lies with the coach and GM instead of his team. The GM can't do much else beyond picking well in the first round. Many of his later picks are head scratchers and his free agent acquisitions spend more time with the doctors and trainers than they do on the field. The coach is clearly in cognitive decline (to put it as nicely as I can) as he can't seem to manage the clock at all late in the game. The 2 time Superbowl MVP QB doesn't know you should just score when given the opportunity inside of 2:00 left in a game and he pretty much put the nail in the team's coffin yesterday between the fumble and nearly back to back delay of game penalties.

This team is a total shit show. Not one of the aforementioned people should be a part of this team next year but that all comes down to the guy at the top who seemingly can't bring himself to make tough decisions when needed.
RE: Yes, those 71 catches and near 1000 yards  
Sarasota-Phil : 9/21/2015 9:01 am : link
In comment 12496087 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
he had last year are certainly the signs of a receiver who stinks. He should be able to manufacture a half dozen catches out of the two targets he got yesterday.


It makes it a whole lot easier to get open when the defense is doubling ODB the whole game.
Cruz was still telling everyone by the last preseason game  
Mason : 9/21/2015 9:04 am : link
that he would be ready to go for the start of the season. Now it is by week 4. Thinking about how they handled the Behre situation as well. There is a big story here about the training personnel but that would be too much to heap on the Giants right now.
RE: Yes he is hurt  
Route 9 in LEH : 9/21/2015 9:11 am : link
In comment 12496076 dep026 said:
Quote:
and yes he also stinks.


Agreed.
RE: He's  
BMac : 9/21/2015 9:20 am : link
In comment 12496153 dorgan said:
Quote:
not getting any separation. Probably healthy enough to play, but only at a 75% level.

I'm not sure what the answer is, but the problem is obvious.
We got 23 yards of production out of our # 2 and #3 receivers combined.

Parker can get open but he can't catch. Randle can't get open. He's definitely hurting.

Eli's completion percent yesterday was 67% playing with limited skill players and a makeshift OL.
Not convinced you can put the blame for that loss on him.

After reading BBI this morning, I'm sure I'm in a minority. However, a look at the facts bear out my opinion.


I have to agree with this. Also, add in the fact that Flowers was having some obvious problems before he went down for good, and that the restructured O-line just didn't do a very good job for the rest of the game.
RE: Forget the James Jones over Parker discussion  
jeff57 : 9/21/2015 9:23 am : link
In comment 12496086 jlukes said:
Quote:
Jones should have been kept over Randle.


Bingo.
RE: He's  
Tesla : 9/21/2015 9:24 am : link
In comment 12496153 dorgan said:
Quote:
not getting any separation.


How do you know this? Unless someone has watched the all 22 tapes of our first two games nobody is really in a position to judge whether the problem is Randle not getting separation or Eli not looking his way, or plays not designed to go to him, etc.

I big issue yesterday is that our players looked gassed.  
robbieballs2003 : 9/21/2015 9:26 am : link
We did run routes downfield and our receivers took their sweet ass time getting back to the huddle or lined up. Beckham is awesome but he looks like he is jogging out there a lot of the time. I really think this leads to us losing our edge at the end of games. It doesn't seem that we are physically up to the challenge to play 4 quarters.
Randle is not a "gamer"  
SomeFan : 9/21/2015 9:28 am : link
He has good stats in meaningless games where both teams are out of the playoff picture or where the Giants are already leading or down by three scores. He is terrible in crunch time and I have zero confidence that he would come thru in a big spot. He gets next to zero YAC and goes down at the slightest of tackles. He should be a message cut.

Thing is - for whatever reason, Randle is ineffective  
jcn56 : 9/21/2015 9:30 am : link
so, isn't it next man up? Or does Randle have to be crippled first?

I know what Parcells said about the guys on the bench, but we've had zero out of Randle and Parker, it's time someone else got a chance.
RE: Thing is - for whatever reason, Randle is ineffective  
Mason : 9/21/2015 9:40 am : link
In comment 12496320 jcn56 said:
Quote:
so, isn't it next man up? Or does Randle have to be crippled first?

I know what Parcells said about the guys on the bench, but we've had zero out of Randle and Parker, it's time someone else got a chance.


Coughlin is reluctant to rely on Davis and Parker is horrible on the outside. It sounds like Randle has been able to manage this in the past and they are anticipating that the issue will go away. The Cruz thing has thrown them for a loop because I'm sure that with Cruz back, you will probably see RR go inactive. A game of musical chairs. They mishandled the situation with Cruz injury and the release of Jones as my quotes for the Jets game pointed out.
RE: RE: He's  
dorgan : 9/21/2015 9:48 am : link
In comment 12496287 Tesla said:
Quote:
In comment 12496153 dorgan said:


Quote:


not getting any separation.




How do you know this? Unless someone has watched the all 22 tapes of our first two games nobody is really in a position to judge whether the problem is Randle not getting separation or Eli not looking his way, or plays not designed to go to him, etc.



By watching the all 22 tape.

I have a little experience in breaking down films.

RE: It looks as though  
OBJ_AllDay : 9/21/2015 9:49 am : link
In comment 12496083 Funkhouser said:
Quote:
he could give 2 shits about what is going on around him. To say his effort is lacking is being kind. If he's hurt, then don't play him.


Same buffoon lazy worker that Ramses one minus the shit eating grin we always saw while he was deactivated on the sidelines on game day
RE: RE: RE: He's  
Tesla : 9/21/2015 10:01 am : link
In comment 12496382 dorgan said:
Quote:
In comment 12496287 Tesla said:


Quote:


In comment 12496153 dorgan said:


Quote:


not getting any separation.




How do you know this? Unless someone has watched the all 22 tapes of our first two games nobody is really in a position to judge whether the problem is Randle not getting separation or Eli not looking his way, or plays not designed to go to him, etc.





By watching the all 22 tape.

I have a little experience in breaking down films.


That's what I wanted to know. Did you get the all 22 from yesterday's game yet?
the all 22  
dorgan : 9/21/2015 10:08 am : link
film from yesterday's game wasn't available yet when I checked last night.

If it's not made available on rewind, I have another source that I can tap into later in the week.
Do you need the coaches film to know that Randle is moving  
jcn56 : 9/21/2015 10:11 am : link
like shit? That's why everyone is speculating he's hurt - he's not running like he has in the past (mental lapses - wrong part of the field, drops, aside).

He looks hurt. It's possible he's just disinterested, but the way he came on late last season, I have a hard time believing the guy is just slacking off in a contract year.
RE: Do you need the coaches film to know that Randle is moving  
dorgan : 9/21/2015 10:18 am : link
In comment 12496441 jcn56 said:
Quote:
like shit? That's why everyone is speculating he's hurt - he's not running like he has in the past (mental lapses - wrong part of the field, drops, aside).

He looks hurt. It's possible he's just disinterested, but the way he came on late last season, I have a hard time believing the guy is just slacking off in a contract year.


I don't believe his effort is poor. He's lost some speed due to pain. He can't stick that foot in the ground and make his breaks like he could last year.

I'm not sure what our options are, nor do I have any idea when or if he'll improve physically.

Not an ideal situation. 23 yards from your #s 2 & 3 receivers isn't going to get it done.
he's like  
Les in TO : 9/21/2015 10:19 am : link
hakeem nicks at the end of the 2012 season....no separation yet plodding along anyways. if he's hurt, why not play someone who is healthy and hungry.
Randle is nothing special to begin with  
arniefez : 9/21/2015 10:20 am : link
but he's definitely hurt. The whole James Jones thing is a microcosm of everything that's wrong with the Giants. He was the 2nd best receiver they had and they cut him for non performance reasons. They cut him because of his age, because he wasn't a draft pick and because they were counting on injured players that shouldn't have been counted on. This why teams changes coaches familiarity or past performance is not a reason for players being first up. The only thing that should matter is performance on the field.
jlukes  
Marty866b : 9/21/2015 10:32 am : link
I brought that up last week. Jones should have been kept over Randle but the Giants tend to stick with their high round draft picks.
Randle was one of the guys  
AnnapolisMike : 9/21/2015 10:48 am : link
That the Giants needed production from in order to be successful. With the Giants heading into a tough stretch it would be nice to have either Randle or Cruz. Imagine if we lose OBJ....holy crap.
Time to IR Ruben  
JohnF : 9/21/2015 10:54 am : link
I don't see him getting healthy during the season, if this couldn't be managed during camp, and we could try and get either a FA Vet or someone off of a practice squad that's fast. Dorgan has some great points here:

Quote:
(Randle's) not getting any separation. Probably healthy enough to play, but only at a 75% level.


That's interesting, considering the JPP situation. If you think about it, JPP could use Randle as an example of the Giants putting players on the field who can't properly compete.

Quote:
I'm not sure what the answer is, but the problem is obvious. We got 23 yards of production out of our # 2 and #3 receivers combined.


We're too inconsistent running the ball, yet Tom keeps trying to stay at a 50/50 run pass ratio. I think that's a bad move considering the inexperience and talent issues on our line. I'd prefer going to 60-65% passing, with a good percentage of that being dump offs to our Running Backs (something that's more in line with a WCO). The problem there is that our TE's are useless.

Brings up another point...we have seen zero improvement from the TE's since Pope was fired. I know our TE's aren't that skilled, but they shouldn't be this bad. I've got to think this is coaching related.

Solutions? I like the idea of moving Donnell either to the Slot or WR. He's useless at TE, since he won't block. He's got the size for it, but not the will. I'll quote RB John Henry here... "Blocking is nothing but 100% desire." Moving LD will at least cause matchup problems on the opposing CB's, and indirectly improve the line by subtraction.

Another option is putting Geremy Davis out there (at least he can run, and is a threat to get open). I'd even put Parker out there full time, even if he's only catching the ball 50% of the time, he can take some pressure off of OBJ, and he might get better with more game time. Hell, we put Mario Manningham out there, and he dropped his fair share.

I doubt this is what they want to do, but the team can't continue to get non-production from as many players on offense as we're seeing now.

question for dorgan  
jeffusedtobeonwebtv : 9/21/2015 11:31 am : link
In comment 12496466 dorgan said:
Quote:
In comment 12496441 jcn56 said:


Quote:


like shit? That's why everyone is speculating he's hurt - he's not running like he has in the past (mental lapses - wrong part of the field, drops, aside).

He looks hurt. It's possible he's just disinterested, but the way he came on late last season, I have a hard time believing the guy is just slacking off in a contract year.



I don't believe his effort is poor. He's lost some speed due to pain. He can't stick that foot in the ground and make his breaks like he could last year.

I'm not sure what our options are, nor do I have any idea when or if he'll improve physically.

Not an ideal situation. 23 yards from your #s 2 & 3 receivers isn't going to get it done.


How many yards did Atlanta's #2 and 3 receivers have yesterday? They kept throwing to Julio Jones because that strategy was successful. The Giants, OTOH, stopped throwing the ball to Beckham in the second half despite how successful that was in the first half.
Barring a stretch of meaningless play out the string games in 2014...  
Torrag : 9/21/2015 11:35 am : link
...RR has been a disappointment. I'm doubtful he ever fulfills the promise his physical gifts hint at.
if the Giants knew about Randle's injuries  
djm : 9/21/2015 11:38 am : link
before week 1, and by all accounts that had to have known this, why the fuck did they cut Jones??????????????????

Why? They had to know Randle was gimpy back in August because Randle wasn't practicing every day. So.....


What the fuck is this organization doing lately? Am I nuts to say that WE are one of the most dysfunctional teams going since 2013? WTF???

This team fucking stinks. They go 6-10 on average every year and they have fired the DC, fired the OC and made head scratching FA moves and roster moves.

Who's been worse? The skins or giants? Seriously? My God we're bad.
Man never had separation speed and is not built to cut  
Bob in Newburgh : 9/21/2015 11:40 am : link
on a dime.

If an injury is causing him to perform at less than optimum in those areas, in short, if he has lost a step, he is not going to get open.

The real question is why the roster is so thin at the WR position?
He patlellar tendonitis  
RoadWarriorz : 9/21/2015 12:14 pm : link
It means his kneecaps wobbles when he runs, you cant change direction much or explode on your knee with it.

Anyone who plays basketball has had it in their past, its not fun. And Tendonitis is weird, you can't estimate when its going to get better. Its really a week to week thing.
Not hurt, just missing  
Bluenatic : 9/21/2015 3:36 pm : link
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/21/2015 4:17 pm : link
Ebenezer Samuel ‏@ebenezersamuel 27s28 seconds ago Bronx, NY

Reuben Randle has 28 receiving yards this season. Eli Manning has 31 rushing yards this season.
RE: He patlellar tendonitis  
Les in TO : 9/21/2015 4:40 pm : link
In comment 12497009 RoadWarriorz said:
Quote:
It means his kneecaps wobbles when he runs, you cant change direction much or explode on your knee with it.

Anyone who plays basketball has had it in their past, its not fun. And Tendonitis is weird, you can't estimate when its going to get better. Its really a week to week thing.
so if he can't change direction quickly or explode past defensive backs due to injury, why is he out there? why are we playing short handed?
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