Jennings in particular looks really slow to me(idk maybe I'm wrong) not that our run blocking is any good but there were a few runs last night that a speedy back would have had a shot to go to the house.
There were some 4 and 5 yard pushes. That's all I need to see. Would be nice to have some home run speed but I don't view it as a necessity. Would rather have the physical runner.
right. I said the same thing on another thread. Jennings is horribly slow and was the reason two nice running opportunities turned into modest gains. He just seems so plodding through the line and he now runs more upright than before. The short yardage stop on the play to the left was all him. All he had to do was plow forward for the yard but instead he chose to turn more to the sideline and was caught and brought down.
I would like to see Darkwa get some carries. Let's see what he can do.
Curious how Vereen goes from being such a big part of the offense to having zero catches.
Randle.
Vereen only got so many touches because literally nobody else was doing anything last week. This week Randle has a 7-catch 100 yard game going downfield.
Wilson with this offense would def have been fun to watch but no use crying over spilled milk. I think we can get enough out of our guys if we use them at the right times. Williams should always be our short yardage back and Vereen our all purpose back with RJ preferably on the bench. He looks too slow out there. Our line isn't gonna open up holes like the cowboys do its gonna be more like a crease and our backs have to be decisive and hit the hole before it quickly closes hence why I think RJ is having so much trouble
The Giants should move on from Jennings...a career journeyman and at this point a 3.5 per carry back...wish the Giants would test Williams until the end of the year to see if he is Jennings or part of the future...I would immediately incert Darkwa into the starting lineup to see what he can do in a feature back role...the problem is TC is stubborn as a mule and it will take an injury for the Giants to discover Darkwa
big gains but a S made a nice ankle tackle on 2 of them. He's tentative because he has seen an unstable O and is waiting for one, even when it IS there; its just a negative mindset.
Williams is quick after he gets some mo.
I think we will see SV catch more passes out of the backfield once they can find a way to stabilize the right side long enough for Eli to get a clean pass out there. What was interesting was the player selection on some calls, notably a quick pass out to JENNINGS(which Eli threw behind him[he spun and caught it] but otherwise might have been a nice gain).I would have thought that was an SV play.
And yes SV dropped the only pass to him, which was at the yardmarker and a or close to a first down.
Now with extra days to practice they can work on the little things they are messing up on.
plays out his entire contract. He's nothing special and I'm sure they'll look to upgrade the spot in the offseason, but he's on a relatively cheap deal and doesn't have any huge roster bonuses coming up. So no huge cap savings from cutting him. Hopefully Williams can step up and force Jennings into the 3rd RB role.
for sure and have been since Bradshaw. Vereen is actually pretty quick though, you could see that in week 1 or 2 when the right side of the line completely collapsed and he was able to cut back and spin to the left side. Giants will need to address this, but bigger problems exist.
For now I can say that I trust Williams to not put the ball on the ground and generally the same with Jennings. I also trust Vereen to catch passes.
as much as a rb that can accelerate and actually hit the hole more quickly. Jennings is brutal to watch. Some of these 2 and 3 yard gains could be 8 and 10 yarders with a back who accelerates better.
Curious how Vereen goes from being such a big part of the offense to having zero catches.
After last week, I expect Washington's defensive game plan focused on taking away Vereen and containing Beckum. Like: "Make 'em go to Randle, make 'em go to Donnell." Great plan, except Randle woke up. Donnell had a couple of good plays IIRC but if last night's performance is the best they can get out of him, any D can live with that.
for Wilson coming from? If we had Wilson he would be warming the bench with his great speed... He couldn't pass block to save his life.. When he was back there, defense knew we were running, they'd stack the line and there was no way he would be able to pass protect for our receivers to get deep... Speed isn't everything... Wilson lacked everything but speed.. I know our RBs are not like Jamal Charles but they are good enough.. We need better blocking.. Give me someone who gets 4+ yards on most plays... then I can use Victor Cruz and OBJ as my homerun threat...
Redskins rookie Matt Jones has been impressive to start the season
He's a good veteran presence, but his inability to show any short area quickness negate his opportunity to gain positive yards on anything other than a wide open hole.
I expect the 3 other backs to continuously get more opportunities as the season progresses, and Jennings to be waived post-season.
They seem to have 2 "change of pace" backs in Williams and Vereen, an uncertainty in Darkwa, and a former #2 on his last legs in Jennings.
Good thing is the Jennings plays, and enjoys special teams.
Last year around this time Jennings was at the top of the league
it's as if people expect every game to be the same result as the 2000 mfc chapsionship game - complete dominance in all three phases. the negative threads outweigh the positive ones like 3:1
it's as if people expect every game to be the same result as the 2000 mfc chapsionship game - complete dominance in all three phases. the negative threads outweigh the positive ones like 3:1
Yep. What we needed was a W and for us to show more signs of life. TC had a saying along the lines of a work in progress. I agree.
RE: They got tripped up, not caught from behind last night
and tiki did not have "breakaway speed" he had unbelievable quickness, but he got caught from behind all the time.
You're right. I was confusing quickness with top speed. Good call. I guess Da'Rel Scott had it but that's all he had. Bradshaw was very quick but never fast. Jacobs, well he was the juggernaut.
So I guess that makes my point even more then. We've never really had that as far back as I can remember. I don't think I can even name very many bacsk in the league now that have "top end speed". Those are all WRs and DBs now I guess.
I have a different opinion. Not a bug Williams after
William's first step is fine. It's his vision/cutback ability that is lacking.
I agree totally. He reminds me of Ron Dayne in that he always seems to running into a brick wall. He's more powerful than Dayne, and maybe a little quicker off the mark. But not any more elusive.
RE: RE: They got tripped up, not caught from behind last night
Ours is too easy to defend. There is no deception in our running plays and the defense does not have to defend the edges. EVERYTHING is run inside due to lack of speed in the backfield. We have more running plays for negative yardage then anyone and that I am just guessing on. I'd like to see Darkwa get a try. How hurt is he?
you guys want a powerful, elusive, fast runner who can block and catch.
Unfortunately, Jim Brown and Earl Campbell both retired some years back. In the meantime, you will need to settle on some other mix of characteristics.
And some of you are unaccustomed to the NFL where players have a role. Each of our RB have a role- Williams is the horse, Vereen is the pass catching 3rd and long back and Jennings does a little bit of both. All are expected to pass block and hang on to the ball.
Of course Darkwa is the most popular running back- he hasn't played.
They dont need breakaway speed. They just need a running lane.
LOL and I'm sure glad he did and I also know you're smart enough to know that was a dumb reply to whether or not he has had an impressive start to his rookie season.
RBs don't need breakaway speed and most don't have it anyway
Emmit Smith for example. Chris Johnson does and he is a backup. Besides how often would they use it? What is more important is quickness and breaking tackles. Besides speed doesn't help you if there are no holes, elusiveness and quickness does (ala Barry Sanders). Our RB's are not the problem.
and tiki did not have "breakaway speed" he had unbelievable quickness, but he got caught from behind all the time.
You're right. I was confusing quickness with top speed. Good call. I guess Da'Rel Scott had it but that's all he had. Bradshaw was very quick but never fast. Jacobs, well he was the juggernaut.
So I guess that makes my point even more then. We've never really had that as far back as I can remember. I don't think I can even name very many bacsk in the league now that have "top end speed". Those are all WRs and DBs now I guess.
This is false. Bradshaw absolutely was fast in his first few years. Do you not remember the Buffalo game in '07?
Yeah Bradshaw was plenty fast in pads, he just wasn't a blazer
in the underwear Olympics AKA the NFL combine, running a 4.55 there.
He did post an excellent 20 yard shuttle time at 4.09, and an elite 3 cone at 6.70...
Andre Williams in underwear at the combine ran 4.56, which was not good enough to be a top performer among RBs, and his 3 cone was a rather dismal 7.27, which perhaps explains the jitterbug difference that Bradshaw possessed that Williams doesn't have.
On the flip side, Williams posted "top performer" #s in his broad jump, short shuttle, and long shuttle at the combine and had a 4" better vertical jump than AB (38" vs 34".)
Williams has decent enough "breakaway" speed IMO. It's his vision, more than anything else, that's questionable. And thus far this year he looks to be improving.
I gave him heck last year for lack of vision, so I hope what I am seeing now is a real improvement.
So did Jacobs. At 270 lbs that was frightening to see
Y'know, Jacobs was pretty darn fast, but he wasn't really a threat to score from anywhere on the field, because DBs were able to catch him from behind. At his best he'd be good for one or two runs a game of around 30-40 yards, but he wasn't fast enough to go much longer than that.
Also, he didn't have great balance, so he wouldn't bounce off tacklers and continue running. He could run over tacklers sometimes and get another 5 yards on his way to the ground, but he wouldn't keep his feet and go for another 25. Tacklers would bounce off him sometimes, but he would fall down, too. If he'd had better balance and more ability to shed tacklers, he'd have been more of a home run threat, with or without breakaway speed.
Better blocking please.
I would like to see Darkwa get some carries. Let's see what he can do.
Randle.
Vereen only got so many touches because literally nobody else was doing anything last week. This week Randle has a 7-catch 100 yard game going downfield.
That's what they want.
He dropped his only target. And the Giants were ahead the entire game and I think they prefer Jennings/Williams as pure runners.
Keep in mind the Redskins are a "keep everyone in front them" defense so it would be hard to get big yards even with a fast back.
I disagree, his first step is fine. It's his vision/cutback ability that is lacking.
Jennings on the other hand looks like he's moving in quick sand. His vision is good, but half the time the hole is gone by the time he reaches it.
I remember reading that the team loved Abdullah and would have selected him in the third rd had he made it there.
Williams is quick after he gets some mo.
I think we will see SV catch more passes out of the backfield once they can find a way to stabilize the right side long enough for Eli to get a clean pass out there. What was interesting was the player selection on some calls, notably a quick pass out to JENNINGS(which Eli threw behind him[he spun and caught it] but otherwise might have been a nice gain).I would have thought that was an SV play.
And yes SV dropped the only pass to him, which was at the yardmarker and a or close to a first down.
Now with extra days to practice they can work on the little things they are messing up on.
Pretty simple...different team...different scheme. our WR's caught 14 passes but I would like to see him touch the ball more consistantly
For now I can say that I trust Williams to not put the ball on the ground and generally the same with Jennings. I also trust Vereen to catch passes.
I remember in the Dallas game where Jennings had two big holes, thinking, Wilson would have taken both of them to the house.....perchance to dream....
Williams.. I'm not really a fan. I like his power, but I'd rather have some vision to accompany that power. He doesn't really match this offense.
A guy that does. Raijon Neal.. practice squad .. raiders.
I remember in the Dallas game where Jennings had two big holes, thinking, Wilson would have taken both of them to the house.....perchance to dream....
Why just take away their longest run? How about taking away their top 5 runs and seeing how much they "really" averaged?
Along those lines their average was skewed by a lot of runs at the end of the game when Washington knew we were going to run.
He's talking about he has average 5 yards per carry.
Keep in mind the Redskins are a "keep everyone in front them" defense so it would be hard to get big yards even with a fast back.
Young Ahmad Bradshaw had breakaway speed....
Cause he blocked and WR were open...23/32 a few less drops and eli is 26/32...learn some football
Quote:
we haven't had that since Tiki. Count me among those that is fairly happy with the committee of RBs we have now.
Keep in mind the Redskins are a "keep everyone in front them" defense so it would be hard to get big yards even with a fast back.
Young Ahmad Bradshaw had breakaway speed....
So did Jacobs. At 270 lbs that was frightening to see
I expect the 3 other backs to continuously get more opportunities as the season progresses, and Jennings to be waived post-season.
They seem to have 2 "change of pace" backs in Williams and Vereen, an uncertainty in Darkwa, and a former #2 on his last legs in Jennings.
Good thing is the Jennings plays, and enjoys special teams.
I don't really think he lost anything. The next "wide open hole" they get will be the first.
But - because they are our RB's they must suck dick.
Quote:
after a W?
it's as if people expect every game to be the same result as the 2000 mfc chapsionship game - complete dominance in all three phases. the negative threads outweigh the positive ones like 3:1
You're right. I was confusing quickness with top speed. Good call. I guess Da'Rel Scott had it but that's all he had. Bradshaw was very quick but never fast. Jacobs, well he was the juggernaut.
So I guess that makes my point even more then. We've never really had that as far back as I can remember. I don't think I can even name very many bacsk in the league now that have "top end speed". Those are all WRs and DBs now I guess.
Quote:
and tiki did not have "breakaway speed" he had unbelievable quickness, but he got caught from behind all the time.
Tiki didn't get caught from "all the time". He often outran the pursuit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASx7TGjzEyI
Good highlights. Now find the highlights where he gets caught from behind more than half the time.
It is not just as simple as finding a speed guy. You need a guy that can actually play
Wilson would be awesome in this offense
Unfortunately, Jim Brown and Earl Campbell both retired some years back. In the meantime, you will need to settle on some other mix of characteristics.
And some of you are unaccustomed to the NFL where players have a role. Each of our RB have a role- Williams is the horse, Vereen is the pass catching 3rd and long back and Jennings does a little bit of both. All are expected to pass block and hang on to the ball.
Of course Darkwa is the most popular running back- he hasn't played.
Quote:
He would have been a nice pick in the 3rd round.
Yeah, he looked very athletic fumbling.
LOL and I'm sure glad he did and I also know you're smart enough to know that was a dumb reply to whether or not he has had an impressive start to his rookie season.
That is correct
I remember reading that the team loved Abdullah and would have selected him in the third rd had he made it there.
Whoops meant to reply to this one
That is correct on Abdullah
Quote:
and tiki did not have "breakaway speed" he had unbelievable quickness, but he got caught from behind all the time.
You're right. I was confusing quickness with top speed. Good call. I guess Da'Rel Scott had it but that's all he had. Bradshaw was very quick but never fast. Jacobs, well he was the juggernaut.
So I guess that makes my point even more then. We've never really had that as far back as I can remember. I don't think I can even name very many bacsk in the league now that have "top end speed". Those are all WRs and DBs now I guess.
This is false. Bradshaw absolutely was fast in his first few years. Do you not remember the Buffalo game in '07?
He did post an excellent 20 yard shuttle time at 4.09, and an elite 3 cone at 6.70...
Andre Williams in underwear at the combine ran 4.56, which was not good enough to be a top performer among RBs, and his 3 cone was a rather dismal 7.27, which perhaps explains the jitterbug difference that Bradshaw possessed that Williams doesn't have.
On the flip side, Williams posted "top performer" #s in his broad jump, short shuttle, and long shuttle at the combine and had a 4" better vertical jump than AB (38" vs 34".)
Williams has decent enough "breakaway" speed IMO. It's his vision, more than anything else, that's questionable. And thus far this year he looks to be improving.
I gave him heck last year for lack of vision, so I hope what I am seeing now is a real improvement.
Some data and food for thought linked re speed:
Williams' Combine performance:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andre-williams?
id=2543565
Bradshaw's combine data:
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andre-williams?id=2543565
Wake Up Call: Notable 40 Times - ( New Window )
So did Jacobs. At 270 lbs that was frightening to see
Also, he didn't have great balance, so he wouldn't bounce off tacklers and continue running. He could run over tacklers sometimes and get another 5 yards on his way to the ground, but he wouldn't keep his feet and go for another 25. Tacklers would bounce off him sometimes, but he would fall down, too. If he'd had better balance and more ability to shed tacklers, he'd have been more of a home run threat, with or without breakaway speed.
give this offense wilson, and we are one of the best in the league.