Anyone dissapounted that JPP might be coming back in 3wks?

I see no reason he couldn't contribute even if they have to club cast his hand this season. He obviously will not be the JPP we want him to be but he could still generate some pass rush which we desperately need.

In comment 12510559 The_Boss said:

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In comment 12510549 Matt in SGS said: Quote: JPP is the only guy who can get to the QB on a semi regular basis. If he doesn't play the record of fewest (10 in 2008 by KC) sacks in an entire season is in jeopardy.

You mean he WAS the only guy. That was when he didn't have missing digits. And I be willing to be a LOT of money they get more than 10 sacks without JPP...

optimistic ?? no

why would anyone be against anything that could potentially help the pass rush?

the skin grafts and their healing ...

and of course it's a big if, I'd prefer it come after the bye week.

We have a pretty favorable schedule between now and then save for the Pats and possibly the Bills. It would give his hand more time to heal and he would have a couple of weeks at the training facility with the coaches, staff, not to mention about as much time as you can get without the media being around. Also, with a weak NFC East I'd expect to be in a playoff race. Let him work his way into shape, starting in a situational role and if we're lucky enough to make it to the postseason he should be in 'football' shape by then. He'd be a huge help in that regard.

that commitment, if commitment on both sides there was, may have been made more to leave a better taste in the mouths of both camps than in the expectation that improvement in the condition of his hand six weeks out merited a second meeting. We'll find out soon enough.

he's not going to be the JPP of last year. But, IF his hand is healed up enough to hold up to continuous weight lifting (even if at a reduced weight than last year) and football training, he's likely to be better than what we have now, and will only get better as the year goes on. Giants aren't going to let him sign until he's healthy enough, and if at that point they're willing to pay an inflated price rather than rescind the tender, I don't have a problem with it. I have no idea when that point will be, but I'd rather it be sooner than later.

In comment 12510593 JonC said:

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the skin grafts and their healing ...

Most of the educated medical people said that would be the issue.

The amount of size he seems to have lost doesn't help either

The pass rush has been I would try to get him in and ready to play. Do I think it happens? Nope. This is gonna end badly.

In comment 12510610 BlueHurricane said:

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In comment 12510593 JonC said: Quote: the skin grafts and their healing ... Most of the educated medical people said that would be the issue. The amount of size he seems to have lost doesn't help either

Yeah, that's mostly where my cynicism comes from

I don't think I want him back...we can roll over his money into four good free agents next year. And the idea that he can really help us is probably dreaming. It's not just the hand...this is a brand new system, it would be different if Perry was still here.

He's lighter, weaker, out of football shape, doesn't know the system and has lost two fingers.

And he's going his billing rate is figured at the annual rate of close to 15 million.. That's an awful deal..

Suffer this year, dump him, four good free agents next year and go for it.

skin grafts can be problematic even in the best of circumstances. I wonder if he's doing himself wrong by trying to rush the process?

he had two additional grafts (middle finger and thumb) since the original hand rebuild, right? I read that as a set back, but I'm no doc, so maybe it was to be expected.

In comment 12510610 BlueHurricane said:

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In comment 12510593 JonC said: Quote: the skin grafts and their healing ... Most of the educated medical people said that would be the issue. The amount of size he seems to have lost doesn't help either

No it doesn't, but in the big picture it's unlikely to prevent both sides from making a deal and getting him on the field.

It's not just about getting a supposed extra dose of talent on the field, it's also about avoiding some level of arbitration and collision over compensation.

I don't know on those details, but believe you're correct based on what's been reported by the beat.

It was reported he had another skin graft right before his visit to the Giants. A week or two after his visit, there was a report that he would not need any additional procedures.

But to answer your question, he's not that far removed from another skin graft.

I still find it difficult to believe he can safely play football this season.

In comment 12510623 fkap said:

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skin grafts can be problematic even in the best of circumstances. I wonder if he's doing himself wrong by trying to rush the process? he had two additional grafts (middle finger and thumb) since the original hand rebuild, right? I read that as a set back, but I'm no doc, so maybe it was to be expected.

My cynical guess? Get all the money I can now and worry about my hand down the road..

would pull the tender if it got to be approaching 4th qtr of the season and it was still iffy on his progress. Current presumption on my part is that re-signing him next year is unlikely.

I think it's pretty obvious that JPP knows he's no where near a point of having a case in arbitration court. but if the season is winding down, and the Giants don't think he's ready, but he's close enough to have a case, would they just say fuck it, this isn't worth the headache, and pull the tender? Or would they pay him and let him ride as a gift/sign of good will?

seems to believe we are going to get the former JPP back. Like we are going to have #90 out there is blue wreaking havoc. Unfortunately the safe money says you are going to have is #90 out there doing no better than the current set of guys we have, but to the tune of 870k per game.

His return does not seem realistic, at that price tag it seems preposterous. The decision about JPP needs to be fully about JPP's ability to play and our current roster should have no bearing on the decision.

In comment 12510659 nyynyg said:

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seems to believe we are going to get the former JPP back. Like we are going to have #90 out there is blue wreaking havoc. Unfortunately the safe money says you are going to have is #90 out there doing no better than the current set of guys we have, but to the tune of 870k per game. His return does not seem realistic, at that price tag it seems preposterous. The decision about JPP needs to be fully about JPP's ability to play and our current roster should have no bearing on the decision.

To piggyback off of that, the 2011 JPP was great, arguably the best D guy in the game..Recent JPP was a good player, no more than that, imo

re: get all the money he can now

he can't get the money if he can't get on the field. Is it a case of haste makes waste (for this year) regarding the graft? Once the grafts heal, though, long term repercussions wouldn't be any different than not rushing it, right? (presuming he doesn't get an infection that causes additional amputation)

Based on the amount of damage to the thumb, I'm guessing that the index finger was iffy (at best), so I don't get the feeling that he amputated just for this year.

They way things are shaping up in the NFC East, any little help may be the difference.

Giants wont let him sign unless they think he can play at some point.

The question is whether he is as good as, or better then the top 4 pass rushers on the giants. If so, then he can surely contribute as pass rushing specialist on passing downs initially. Then as his endurance and confidence builds they can rotate him in more.

Is that worth the $900k per game the tender pays him? Possibly? It really depends if the Giants think he can contribute to the pass rush. Any pass rush improvement would be welcome based on what I have seen the first 3 weeks.

Are we still in this when he comes back?

If we are, and if he comes back, how long will it be before he is in football shape to make a contribution? If you are not thinking SB at that point, to me it's a waste of cap money.....

this year.

While making it back on the field is a good comeback story, this just falls into the common sense bucket...loss of hand strength, sensitive extremity, no football conditioning, etc.

I wish him the absolute best but expect nothing.

which may not be this year, he will be playing essentially one-handed given that he's missing an index finger and half his thumb. I just don't see how anyone can drag down a quarterback with only one hand. It's true that LT was able to do it when he was wearing a shoulder harness, but JPP is not LT. I have serious doubts that JPP will ever be a factor on the Giants roster, this year or any year. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

He'll need a couple of light tune-up weeks before that, for which he'd have to be paid (start the clock around Thanksgiving).

That puts him on payroll for the last 6 games. That's roughly $5.2 million that you're giving up from next year's cap for what figures to be (at best) 4 productive games this year. And by productive I mean he may have some value as a situational rusher - I don't think we can reasonably expect him to be solid vs. the run till next year, if EVER again.

I would wish him well and save the cap money for next year. Just my take on this.

He is barely benching 225 right now. He has a long way to go still.

In comment 12510593 JonC said:

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the skin grafts and their healing ...

This. IMO. It's pretty simple medically. HIS grip strength can me measured. He may or may not be able to adjust to his new hand configuration but the burn issue has to be the biggest short term.

That new skin is certainly a danger. Even w a glove if its not fully healed he's out again for who knows how long as well as at risk for infection if it tears .

So he goes out. Rips the hand and misses the rest of the year if they let him back too soon? Shit. He may get only one game Or even tear the skin in practice. Pay the guy 7 or so million for nothing? Big risk when those $could be used next year

It's not an easy issue as I'm sure the doctors don't want to give any type of assurity one way or the other.

the sooner the better

with the way our D-line has played. NO TEAM can really get pressure against the Cowboys line. The Rams couldn't even get past the Redskins line which has been surprisingly good (we only got 1 sack but there were many hurried passes and Ayers didn't even play. Through two weeks, the Falcons line has been better than many people originally thought. Don't think its worth hurrying JPP back to the field.

I'd be shocked if JPP plays a snap for this team again.

How badly damaged is the right thumb? That will be a big factor.

They are tricky. They don't heal like your normal skin. They heal very taught. If you press the skin on your forearm it is very pliable and it moves. Grafted skin isn't like that. It is more tight and it affects the range of motion. This is stuff that can be overcome but it takes time.

Also when you have a traumatic injury your muscles tend to atrophy during the healing process. It will take him time to regain his strength.

Also there is a thing called phantom sensations or sometimes pains. His nerve endings think that the finger is still there. He will need to retrain his brain so when he grabs he is not expecting to use that index finger. Occupational Therapy should help him with that.

Grafted skin is also more prone to damage and shredding because it is not pliable but I think the gloves should give him protection but football is a violent sport and those grafts should be completely healed first.

that a man who suffered a disfiguring injury is able through hard work and determination to resume his career?

That's the only way he is going to be effective going forward.

He won't be able to set the edge, or hand fight a tackle if he tries to play in a 4-3.

after watching him bench press very carefully with a towell protecting his hand.

In comment 12510799 Reb8thVA said:

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Grafted skin is also more prone to damage and shredding because it is not pliable but I think the gloves should give him protection but football is a violent sport and those grafts should be completely healed first.

Glad I've no skin in this game.

In comment 12510799 Reb8thVA said:

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Grafted skin is also more prone to damage and shredding because it is not pliable but I think the gloves should give him protection but football is a violent sport and those grafts should be completely healed first.

Wow Reb, obviously didn't know that about you..Sorry bud..Anywho, to continue your great points, if the grafts are over joints, that can be huge

In comment 12510831 Ivan15 said:

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That's the only way he is going to be effective going forward. He won't be able to set the edge, or hand fight a tackle if he tries to play in a 4-3.

Huh? Are you saying an OLB in a 3-4 doesn't set the edge or engage OTs?

whats best for this team. Give him what he is entitled to and lets move on. The big $$ may be better spent on different players.

I don't care how many fingers he's missing.

Take they $$$ for a spending spree in 2016 FA.

in 3 weeks and "coming back" in 3 weeks. Even in the very best case scenario that he would cleared in 3 weeks, that means he first can start practicing. I think it would be a huge long shot that he was ready to play any time in the first half of the season.

how he thinks he should get paid that much money. He blew up his hand and acts like its no big deal and we should still pay that price tag. Its nuts that he thinks that. He should take a lot less this season and than see what happens. Sucks for him but its his fault.

the Giants would nuts to pay him that much money. even if it 850,000.00 per game.

pay someone that is healthy that much money let alone a guy with a injury like this.

I doubt the Giants pay this guy any significant amount of money to play football this season. He had another procedure on his middle finger as well. JPP would have to win a court case to get even a sniff of that franchise money. There will be league involvement and probably court involvement to determine his status for this season and probably next as well.

as a DT.

What the Hell does that mean???