if he comes back and plays the rest of the year? Would you want him back? At what type of contract renegotiation?
I ask these questions because while his current deal, while overpaid, he was pretty damn good when he was healthy. But I was curious as to what Giants fans thought of the guy outside of injuries.
Because he's looked to be able to handle the position?
Seriously dude, why do you even visit the site? You post negative responses with really nothing to support them. I dunno....taking up arts and crafts might be a better use of your time?
He's a really young kid. Who knows whether he can develop into a starting RT or not? He started for a great FSU team, and seemed to me to be a strong run blocker. If he learns to pass protect we'll have something. If not we can keep Beatty, sign a FA RT, or draft one.
You write as if I suggested that Hart would be a starting RT. We have the luxury of watching him develop for a year or two, unless someone takes his roster spot. Win-win imo, eeyore.
Almost no chance we keep Beatty beyond next year and little chance he sticks next year.
I don't think he has enough time to show he's healthy before the trade deadline in early November, but I could see it happening in the off-season.
We could also cut Beatty and eat his signing bonus and then draft or sign another tackle. But we have a number of other needs to fill with high draft picks and big contracts, so I don't think that's a good idea.
My guess is that Beatty gets activated quickly and may be the backup for a couple of weeks. I think they try to get him on the field as a tight end in some packages to attempt to get a more productive run game.
We then try to get the best 5 on the field without losing the continuity that we hopefully had. My guess is that he replaces Newhouse he is the weakest link right now.
Beatty has played right tackle before and we don't want to break up the left side which is planned to be our core. Depending on how he plays the year out will determine if he comes back or not.
The ideal scenario is he comes back so they are not forced to go high in the draft. I think corner and pass rushers are most important. You can also throw tight end in there.
If they keep him, you expect to see some middle round right handed players to be drafted where they eventually could replace Schwartz/Beatty.
For a few years, Beatty has given the Giants good enough pass pro at OLT to be left alone against the best pass rushers in the league - guys like Ware and Allen and Cole. It doesn't seem that many on BBI realize that. That's a valuable asset. They rarely did that with DD, and I am not sure yet with Flowers.
I think the only way Beatty is not here next year (assuming he still has the ability to play) is if he is traded for a high draft pick...or more likely a player who could immediately contribute in a position of need. Many of the same fans calling for him to be released will also be the same guys bitching and moaning when someone goes down on the O-line and there is no decent backup.
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factor in the increasing cap and inflation, he won't really be paid "LT money", more like above average OL starter money.
If he can work on the right side, I say you have to keep him. Cutting him doesn't make sense from a dead money perspective, and this way you have a guy who can swing over to the left if something happens to Flowers.
Yeaaaaaaa, I hear you jcn. But Beatty strikes me as a better fit at LT than RT. Flowers would be better as a RT in my opinion. So moving Flowers over to Rt and inserting Beatty to LT improves two positions. When keeping Beatty is no longer financially viable, Flowers takes over at LT and we move on.
My thing is, by keeping Beatty and playing him at his natural position, it solidifies an aspect of our team (the O line) while opening up possibilities of filling needs thru the draft and FA.
You have to look at this longer term - Flowers is the LT of the future. Best to have him out there developing now, so that when it's time for his contract situation to be resolved, you know whether (and when) to extend him.
Beatty is not long for this team, whether or not Flowers came around. He's under contract through 2017, will be 33 at that point after suffering a couple of serious injuries, so there's really no point in going any further with him unless it's at a seriously discounted rate.
That makes moving Beatty to LT pointless. The decision on whether or not to put him at RT comes into play, and when you figure he's nothing but dead money if cut next year, it makes sense to keep him around. That way, in the 2016 draft you draft his replacement, keep him around for one more season, and then off he goes when his contract expires (or in the last year of his contract if the replacement is as good or better).
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way it makes sense to me if they don't want Flowers at LT. But the post-draft comments - even before Beatty got hurt - seemed to suggest that they saw Flowers as the eventual LT.
Possible, but you can't pay Beatty LT money playing RT.
One hundred percent agree. But if it meant getting Flowers over to RT for a few more years and getting a LT that knows our system who might be very under the radar around the league (meaning he can't really command THAT much if we threaten to release him unless he takes a significant cut), improving two spots on our line...that would be an ideal situation IMHO.
I say the we pay him. He is under contract for 2 more years. If he can play RT for two years and make our oline stronger than I say do it. We have a small window to win again with Eli. Flowers is on his rookie contract and Beatty's money is already in the budget.
We go defense in the draft we have a good chance to win.
I wouldn't. The team will want its best 5 OL-men on the field. Will B. is not a RT, which means they may have to switch Flowers to RT to get all of them on the field.
He isn't going to be able to step in as a starter at LT or RT. Best case scenario is he is available as a backup and fill-in for a couple of snaps per game. Maybe an extra blocking TE in short yardage.
This offseason, if not released early, there will be plenty of time to figure out who is going to play where.
He isn't going to be able to step in as a starter at LT or RT. Best case scenario is he is available as a backup and fill-in for a couple of snaps per game. Maybe an extra blocking TE in short yardage.
This offseason, if not released early, there will be plenty of time to figure out who is going to play where.
It's great to write authoritatively when you know dip, eh? Read JonC's comment below yours, which is based on inside (ie asshat) info, since JonC has a pretty reliable source (media based, IIRC.)
Beatty is well ahead of schedule, which has been the case for him before with previous injuries. I think we can infer from JonC's comment that Beatty is already lifting.
But blow your horn for the fun of it, as you like!
chopperhatch : 9/27/2015 11:47 pm : link : reply
In comment 12511803 Doomster said:
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how Hart is somehow going to be a starter....
Because he's looked to be able to handle the position?
Seriously dude, why do you even visit the site? You post negative responses with really nothing to support them. I dunno....taking up arts and crafts might be a better use of your time?
Why don't you take a bite out my arse? You don't have to like my opinion....and that's bullshit that I don't back up what I say....maybe you just can't comprehend? This is a discussion board for Giant fans, and I question how this 7th round pick, like many late round OL picks we have made, is just going to be the answer to the OL problems we have...if he is, great....but I don't see it...
RE: It still boggles my mind,
yatqb : 9/27/2015 11:56 pm : link : reply
In comment 12511803 Doomster said:
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how Hart is somehow going to be a starter....
He's a really young kid. Who knows whether he can develop into a starting RT or not? He started for a great FSU team, and seemed to me to be a strong run blocker. If he learns to pass protect we'll have something. If not we can keep Beatty, sign a FA RT, or draft one.
You write as if I suggested that Hart would be a starting RT. We have the luxury of watching him develop for a year or two, unless someone takes his roster spot. Win-win imo, eeyore.
But that's just it....we don't have that luxury...we have kept projects on this roster, too long, who haven't produced....we need guys who can contribute now, if this team is going to go forward, not depend on 7th round picks that may, or may not, develop in a year or two.....
Lets rebuild with guys who can actually play, or have we not learned from past mistakes? Maybe this guy does become a player,,,,I just don't agree with statements that he is automatically a lock for the future of this line......
Beatty would bring a significant improvement to the right side of the line if he's ready to play. Would have to think that would help the running game out.
I am also not sure that they will put Beatty back at LT when he comes back, but I also don't know that Beatty has the skillset to play RT. Usually RTs are more mauling types. Beatty is more of a finesse LT. Not sure he has the power to play RT. Not sure I would want to move Flowers over to RT at this point after getting acclimated to play LT, but ultimately, I think that is what will happen because it gets all of our best linemen on the field.
As for after this year, I think it depends on who is out there in FA, how Beatty plays, who from our own team has developed to be a starting caliber RT (Hart?) and what the potential draft selections are. No way can we or should we pay both Flowers and Beatty LT money, but Flowers is on that rookie contract, so maybe financially they could keep them both for the next few years.
Some people have the notion that RT is easier to play and so anyone that can play LT can just slot in at RT. I'm not so sure. It's getting to where the LT and RT are completely different positions because of who the defense is lining up against each player, reversing footwork and handwork, notwithstanding.
Beatty is a competent OT. Play at RT and yes if successful I would keep him. My only question with Beatty at RT is if he is physical enough, but with Newhouse there now he would be a huge improvement regardless.
Jon that's great news. 1st game back week 7 is Dallas. Could be the difference, Beatty replaces Newhouse. Unless Flowers is struggling, it doesn't make sense to change two spots.
Next year is next year, but honestly don't see how Beatty is not on the team. Only scenario I see is a trade, an offer that the NYG can't refuse. I'm sure teams will make inquires, pro OT are hard to come by, but this also is the reason Beatty will be on our roster. There isn't an heir apparent, when the Giants drafted Hart, they said he's a guard. So Hart will either become a better back up than we have had in the past or eventually replace Schwartz.
We still need quality OL depth.
- keep Beatty and eat his salary? - We still have next spring to see what the best line is and whether Hart can hold down RT.
- Someone must need a competent LT. Trade WB for either a competent RT (someone should bite if in fact LTs are more valuable than RTs) or a high or mid round draft pick.
- In any event use a 2nd rd draft pick for a RT.
Thanks JonC for the asshattery. I had made a wild ass guess back when WB first suffered his injury that he'd be back at the front end of the outlined return window, rather than the back end, simply because he's proven to be a fast healer before this injury.
Good the hear my purely speculative guess was close to the mark. More good to hear Beatty will be back soner rather than latter. He's easily among the 5 best OL on the team, IMO.
But back when we had DD at OLT (and often gave him help with Boss vs Ware who was a nightmare for DD because of his quickness/speed first step) Dallas would sometimes flip Ware over McKenzie to very good effect because Ware was way too fast for McKenzie as well.
In short, I get why an OLT must have great feet and good technique, but it seems in today's passing oriented league you want your ORT to be a stud pass blocker as well. And with Flowers and Pugh on the left side, you might decide to do you most of your power running behind Flowers anyway, whatever side he's on.
and we don't yet...
I would think Beatty would need about a month of time to work out and condition before he plays. Hopefully he's at the point where the 1 month countdown starts ticking soon. Maybe 2 more weeks which would see him back ready to play by around week 9.
Philosophically, it seems modern spread offenses are having an effect on how teams build OLs and deploy their attacks, especially with WRs blocking downfield more, but whether or not NYG is willing to do so is above my paygrade.
Possible, but you can't pay Beatty LT money playing RT.
Are we even sure Beatty would be a decent RT? I'm not. Flowers is the LT going forward, I'd rather find a guy who we know can play the right side.
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Possible, but you can't pay Beatty LT money playing RT.
Are we even sure Beatty would be a decent RT? I'm not. Flowers is the LT going forward, I'd rather find a guy who we know can play the right side.
He played a few games at RT as a rookie and he wasn't bad. I agree in general though - good or bad, you have to go out and draft your replacement RT in 16 regardless, because he's been injured and he's getting older.
If the guy you draft can step in sooner, then you jettison Beatty, but you have him around until '17 for that guy to develop and for depth.
I don't think there's any doubt WB's better suited to LT, but pro teams tend to avoid shuffling the OL especially when a rookie's been rep'ing at one position since rookie camp. WB has played RT with some success in the past.
Perhaps EF's ankle lingers and they use that to insert WB at LT, then EF at RT when he's healthy. But, indications since WB went down were that EF was going to stay at LT.
Beatty's supposed struggles run blocking are a myth. Every year he has played LT, we averaged more yards and converted more first downs on the left than on the right. He was a RT in college.
Next season, if you want them to swap positions and have Beatty play the right side, he can do that. I think they are going to keep both with Flowers on the right and Beatty on the left- assuming Beatty comes back healthy or someone knocks them over with a trade deal.
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Beatty will remain a starting OL on this team through 2016 at least. And Flowers' presence on the roster will inspire Beatty to his best play ever. He'll soak up some "attitude" from the kid.
If he couldn't soak up attitude from Diehl, Seubert, and O'Hara, he's not going to soak it up from Flowers. Personality-wise, Beatty is who he is and it's not going to change.
Good point. Hoping, more than predicting... He's got the raw talent to be better than he has been.
I never said that he'd be the answer at RT. I tried to say, a few different times, that his progress or lack of same will indicate how badly we want to either keep Beatty, sign a FA RT or draft one high this coming offseason. That doesn't mean that the team should count on him to man the spot, or leave him on the roster for years and years, as with Mosley and a few others. It merely means that IF he proves that he can man the RT position it might go some way toward making a decision about Beatty and the positional need in general.
With this lineup, you have athleticism on the left side (Beatty and Pugh) and power on the right (Flowers and Schwartz). Throw in emerging C Richburg and you have the makings of an up and coming OL made up of premium draft picks (1 and 2) with the exception of Schwartz. With Newhouse, Hart, Reynolds and Jerry, the depth is decent too.