McAdoo's system isn't too shabby

but for different reasons. If you can toss it 3 or 4 yards, you ought to be able to toss it 5 or 6 yards, which changes your options. We've been throwing the short stuff too short, either because Eli is too quick, or the receivers are running too flat.

& you see what happened to batting averages in MLB in the 1930s. Because everybody hit 300, hitting 300 did not mean anything. The QB rating is up for everybody. Going into yesterday's game, I think there were 8 quarterbacks who had ratings over 100. However, the object of offensive football, which is to score points, remains pretty much the same. Or, putting it another way, increased rating does not equal increase in points. The quick-passing game being utilized by so many teams has taken the place of what used to be successful running plays, especially on first-down, where you see the plethora of four-yard completions.

McAdoo has not been good in "must score" situations. His running game is an afterthought. He might be promising, but he has much to prove.

Team has about 17 dropped passes in 3 games. Eli's accuracy has taken a big hit because of it

leans heavily on pre-snap reads, and that is one of Eli's strengths.

the passes are too short for Eli's strengths.

A high completion rate is a prerequisite for this system, not a sign of success. Short stuff needs YAC, which requires timing and accuracy. Somebody can pull the numbers, but my bet is that its not there

Do you think that may be due to the fact that our LT is out? Maybe?

You'll see deep shots when Flowers and Cruz return.

in a deep drop back. Even that TD pass to OBJ the other night was a long time coming. He has no confidence in the O-line to hold up.

But they have done decently with below avg running game, awful Tight End play and plenty of drops.

Maybe...just maybe...with some O-line stability, Cruz coming back and RR not disappearing for periods this OFfense can be fairly strong.

Cant do anything about the Tight Ends until next May though...

but you have to understand that the short passes cover up for any protection issues. If they tried to go bombs away, this line wouldn't hold up, I don't think.

I would like to see what it could do with a better RB and TE.

Really, thus far, even when Eli is holding the ball for deeper passes, the blocking has been fine and Eli has been successfully moving around the pocket like in the past.

Randle being able to run, unlike the 1st 2 weeks, is the biggest difference. You have to have the defense play both sides of the field. Against Washington that was clear

With Cruz, I, like others, think he will be diminished. However, if he is just a possession guy to help move the chains it is a big deal. That possibility can allow for deeper outside WR routes.

Despite Donnell and his blocking issues, the guy is open all the time

You also have 2 backs who can catch, who can pick up the blitz

They have personnel to threaten defenses. The OL protection is much better

We have a shaky OL, 1-legit WR, and inconsistent WR in Randle, crap 3 & 4 WRs. below average TE's, average RB's.

The best we can hope for, given our talent at this point, is to sustain some drives, be opportunistic about points, not have killer turn overs (this system has cut way down on miscommunication INTs), and have the occasional splash play by our all star OBJ. That's where we are, it's average offense, and it's a damn sight better than 2013.

If we cut down on stupid penalties (false starts, illegal formations, etc.) and have the WR run their route and simply hold on to the ball (a big step up from PParker), then we should be a very solid offense.

If the OL gels/improves, we get a legit #2 WR (a healthy Cruz) and decent TE play, this could be a VERY VERY good offense.

I can't believe anyone would be begging for it now considering how good the offense has been the last two years with several injuries.

when we could run a screen?

In comment 12511802 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 12511784 AnishPatel said: Quote: a lot. It would be better if we can get our guys back and performing to their talent level. If Cruz can come back and contribute that would be great, and RR had a strong game. I am not a fan of Larry D. I do like this system and I think Eli can get better numbers in this system. I have been losing faith in him as well. Yea he can go up and get it and he is a mismatch, but I need a TE who can block and hang on to the ball first and foremost.

I think Larry D is flat out terrible. He has no hands, and literally falls down or fumbles when he gets hit. His flip before contact was ridiculous. He also jumped up in the air before a crucial 3rd down drop vs the Skins. I know Fells is slow and long in the tooth, but he at least makes the catch (what about that one hander moving the chains)

In comment 12511865 RetroJint said:

Quote:

& you see what happened to batting averages in MLB in the 1930s. Because everybody hit 300, hitting 300 did not mean anything. The QB rating is up for everybody. Going into yesterday's game, I think there were 8 quarterbacks who had ratings over 100. However, the object of offensive football, which is to score points, remains pretty much the same. Or, putting it another way, increased rating does not equal increase in points. The quick-passing game being utilized by so many teams has taken the place of what used to be successful running plays, especially on first-down, where you see the plethora of four-yard completions. McAdoo has not been good in "must score" situations. His running game is an afterthought. He might be promising, but he has much to prove.

^^^^^^*This.

I'm not in love with the dinking and dunking. Yeah Eli is completing over 60 percent but that's a given when he's only throwing it 2-4 yards a clip.

Hopefully with Cruz coming back and later Beatty God willing our online is at full strength and maybe we can see this offense open up a bit. I know he was just the QB coach at GB but isn't this offense based on theirs? They take their shots downfield we need to figure out a way to do the same.

.

In comment 12511801 Scuzzlebutt said:

Quote:

a successful 2 minute drill. I miss that from Gilbride's offense. With the exception of his final year as OC it seemed our 2 minute offense was automatic. Now i feel like we can't get big chunks when we need it. Too much time consuming underneath stuff when we need to get the ball down the field quickly. Other than that the system is mostly good.

I agree. Our two minute drill offense is pretty rough. But I think that is reflection of the severe drop-off in talent. This is a fairly weak receiving corps even with Beckham and Vereen. The TEs are probably the worst group in the league and we have one gamebreaker. Once Cruz comes back, if he is close to what he was pre-injury, that changes everything.

Frankly, at this point, 2/3 of the targets should be going to Beckham and Vereen, and Vereen should be on the field more. He should be on the field with Jennings/Williams. Our default formation at this point should be with Vereen, Beckham and Randle, with either Jennings/Williams and 1 TE. Vereen should be lining up in the backfield, in the slot, motioning like a receiver. He has a unique skill set that should be used more creatively. This personnel group also puts the best players we have on the field at the same time. They can do a lot of creative things with Vereen and Beckham lined up on the same side of the field, Beckham and Randle on the same side of the field, Vereen and Randle on the same side of the field, bunch/trips formations, etc. They also need to take advantage of what skillset Donnell has got. Also stand him up, line him up in the slot, and in some bunch formations.

Anyhow, McAdoo's system is qb friendly because it inflates a QBR by giving the qb ultra-safe throws. It also covers up the mediocre OL, especially now with our top two LTs out.

The problem with our offense is that it becomes plodding. Run for four, pass for two, run for two will get us first downs, if everything works perfectly (no drops, no penalties). As we have seen, that doesn't always happen.

The only numbers that count are wins and losses.

In comment 12512081 drkenneth said:

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.

Apparently so, for some.

Exactly. This is the offense playing with one hand tied behind its back

but that's comparing it to Gilbride's. Gilbride's had a healthy Nicks, Manningham and Cruz running out there, and a serviceable Ballard at TE.

Right now we've got Beckham, and not much else. Randle - either has a case of head-up-his-ass or arthritis, and Donnell doesn't seem to be worth a shit.

We need Cruz back before we can say anything about this system.

In comment 12512076 TyFromQueens said:

Quote:

In comment 12511865 RetroJint said: Quote: & you see what happened to batting averages in MLB in the 1930s. Because everybody hit 300, hitting 300 did not mean anything. The QB rating is up for everybody. Going into yesterday's game, I think there were 8 quarterbacks who had ratings over 100. However, the object of offensive football, which is to score points, remains pretty much the same. Or, putting it another way, increased rating does not equal increase in points. The quick-passing game being utilized by so many teams has taken the place of what used to be successful running plays, especially on first-down, where you see the plethora of four-yard completions. McAdoo has not been good in "must score" situations. His running game is an afterthought. He might be promising, but he has much to prove. ^^^^^^*This. I'm not in love with the dinking and dunking. Yeah Eli is completing over 60 percent but that's a given when he's only throwing it 2-4 yards a clip. Hopefully with Cruz coming back and later Beatty God willing our online is at full strength and maybe we can see this offense open up a bit. I know he was just the QB coach at GB but isn't this offense based on theirs? They take their shots downfield we need to figure out a way to do the same.

Agreed completely. QBR are through the roof, now. It used to be a big deal to have a QBR in the 90s. Now it just means you are a starting caliber NFL QB.

Damn you, Gooddell!

"inaccurate" comments come from. He is hitting ~65% of his passes, and has 4 TDs and 0 Ints. This is exactly what we wanted from him. He needs more weapons around him. Get Cruz back and improve the running game and we should be set. I also think the OL is much improved.

Overall I like the offense. We seem to consistently move the ball, in fact we rarely go 3-and-out anymore. I too would like more TDs in the redzone, but I believe we are hitting 50% (TDs to FGs) and thats not bad.

Case in point. Current stats from NFL.com.

1 Kellen Clemens 150.0
2 Aaron Rodgers 128.4
3 Andy Dalton 121.0
4 Tom Brady 119.6
5 Carson Palmer 117.8
6 Tyrod Taylor 116.1
7 Ben Roethlisberger 113.1
8 Marcus Mariota 109.2
9 Brandon Weeden 102.7
10 Derek Carr 102.4
11 Philip Rivers 100.5
12 Johnny Manziel 99.7
13 Tony Romo 98.8
14 Matt Ryan 98.6
15 Eli Manning 97.9
16 Russell Wilson 94.2
17 Michael Vick 93.1

These are video game/Arena League numbers. It's gotten to the point where it's lost all meaning b/c half the league has a guy with >90 QBR. Clemmons should be removed b/c he's only thrown a handful of passes.

To understand why QBR can be misleading at times, look at Vick with a respectable rating after a fairly shaky outing in relief of Big Ben in which he only threw a handful of passes.

Eli is more than capable of having A. Rodgers type numbers, aside from the rushing. The only difference is Eli is less accurate and is a gambler. All the drops this year doesn't help.

Even quite good.

What I don't know is WHO'S JOB is basic "game management" during the game. I'm not talking about "the-buck-stops-here" stuff, because yes, it's ultimately TC, McAdoo, and Eli's responsibility to know the situation.

But usually during games, SOME assistant (isn't it usually the Offensive QC coach?) is dedicated to tracking/managing the details of the game -- watching the clock, noting how many times out are left, etc. so that -- especially in the 4th quarter, the kind of game mgmt mistakes that happened in the first two games and the thing with the pass instead of the run and running a route that can't make the required yardage for a 1st down at the end of the WSH game does NOT happen.

IF McAdoo is doing that stuff himself, he clearly needs to delegate those functions to an assistant. And if the Off. QC coach is already doing that stuff, he needs to be smacked in the head until he does a better job of it, or let someone else do it.

Haven't had one under McAdoo at all.

The passing game is very good, I agree.

via formation, which indicates some predictability being picked up on film, and it's every game. He's also made some absolutely headscratching personnel deployments and playcalls on third downs, and I doubt it's entirely about being conservative/protective. I don't know enough or have the film to drill deeper, a pro pair of eyes to scout the whole thing would be fascinating.

That there are still -- I think -- 2 plays called in the huddle, and Eli can change it at the LOS. Similarly, if a pass play doesn't work for example, it may be due to where Eli decides to go with the ball based on how the play unfolds.

So McAdoo may call a play designed to do one thing, and at any given point, you might not be seeing what he initially called.

Also, the fact that they can't run the ball effectively yet is not on the "system," it's on the OL poor ability to run block.

That's a lot of assumptions. What makes you say that? The OL isn't getting push and I believe that's why the run game isn't consistent.

a formation and tendency. The beat writers see it, you can be certain TC sees it.

Lack of OL push is one problem, the opposition getting an easy read and an advantage in blowing plays is another problem.

OK

more than opponent stated it in the media after beating NYG, especially the Eagles.

the dink and dunk offense is that you need to be perfect if its a long drive. The more snaps the more chance of a holding penalty, fumble, etc. To me its playing into the bend but don't break philosophy of defense,make the offense work to get down field and take advantage of the mistakes when made.

I'm not necessarily knocking McAdoo. Last year I though he had some really nicely designed plays. I just think they need to push it more down the field and I have a hunch that TC agrees also.

It's tough to get away from the quick release pass offense when there is no run game and pass protection is suspect.

A recognition of formation and pattern being any more of an issue than any other team. I see matchup and talent issues testimony the offenses options.

the offense's options.

I don't see it either.

It's hard to get downfield when the release target is 2 +/- seconds. I expect we'll see a lot of that this weekend vs the Bills DL. Hopefully, we see a WR break 1 or 2 for a long play.

I don't watch enough of the rest of the NFL these days to compare, but it's certainly not an issue with NYG.

The Giants OL is the weak link.

In comment 12512597 AP in Halfmoon said:

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I don't see it either. It's hard to get downfield when the release target is 2 +/- seconds. I expect we'll see a lot of that this weekend vs the Bills DL. Hopefully, we see a WR break 1 or 2 for a long play.

Pass protection hasn't really been what's plaguing the passing game this season, it's been the WRs. Eli's had some time back there, only to look downfield and see Beckham doubled and everyone else blanketed.

.

also an accurate point. Even a hobbled but energized Randle helped open things up versus the Redskins.

that is what the quick passes are for, it is an extension of the running game...

What is the difference between gaining 5 yards on a short pass vs a running play? Both things accomplish the same thing and both things make the defense start to creep up a little bit to try and take it away..

We saw it Thursday as soon as the Redskins' Safeties started to come up Eli beat them deep...The short passing game is opening up the deep ball and they will dink and dunk all the way down the field if they have to...

Go Watch the Packers play, it is the same thing...they dink and dunk and then as soon as the defense bites they go deep...A lot of the Packers deep plays happen on Rodgers scrambling out of the Pocket and their Oline is not very good either and they dink and dunk a lot to open up the deep pass...

they run a little bit more now because they have Lacy but before Lacy they threw a lot..

The Patriots do the same thing, So do the Broncos, a lot of teams use the shotgun spread type of offense and work the ball short...

There's a huge difference between Bradshaw ripping off 5 yards a run and Eli hitting Randle on a 5 yard in route. Forcing the defense to worry about the run changes the way the DL rush the passer and forces the safety to play in the box. The Giants OL is mediocre at best, hopefully they continue to improve.

how i feel about it yet...yea higher completion % but way too many dump offs for 2-4 yards. throw the ball.

I sure as hell don't like McAdoo's use of his RBs to this point. He doesn't seem to get them into any kind of rhythm. And I'd like to see Williams get a few more carries, and maybe even toss him the rock since he supposedly has worked on catching so much...

Remember nobody is returning to the same position as last year. You can't expect them to be cohesive week 3; week 7 maybe; we may step back for a week or two when Beatty comes back because I think you move Flowers to RT. But then watch out; it could be the best line since 2007-2009. Once (if) that happens we start mixing in more long stuff and the short routes will get longer because the defenses will have to drop their linebackers and safeties deeper.

come from play-action. No running game ? No play-action.