But I bet he'd also break one or two long TD runs, the way he did before.
He'd also be a great weapon in the passing game. Maybe more dynamic than Shane Vereen. If this team could ever get the screen play down right, Wilson could be a threat to take it all the way every time.
and probably would have been a very capable alternative for Vereen at a lower cost as well. That was a damn shame, the guy was a hard worker and talented, and another casualty of the ridiculous injury/bad luck track the Giants have been on.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
He didn't go down easily. In fact, a few of his fumbles were because he had about 5 players trying to take him down and got stripped in the meantime. He was a very strong dude and an outstanding athlete.
Wilson had a gear that none of the current 3 RB's do. He could absolutely have been a weapon in this offense.
The revisionist history about David Wilson being some terrible RB who fumbled all the time on this board is strange.
who thinks he was a legend before his time. he showed flashes, but aside from speed, never really showed he was anything special as a RB. His ceiling was probably solid niche contributor, and that's AFTER he reached his potential, which he never did and no guarantee he ever would.
RE: RE: he had poor vision and went down quite easily
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
But yet he led or was second in the NCAA in broken tackles.
puzzling, yah. It just didn't translate..it MAY have eventually, but we will never know...I'll take Vereen though, He is what David Wilson could have been, although Vereen is much slower, he's elusive.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
I'll give you the poor vision but he was not afraid of contact. That is ridiculous. Go back and look at his highlights. He ran through and around plenty of tackles, unless of course you're referring to the number of times he got smashed behind the line. Not really his fault. Either way, no reality check needed. He was a developing player who's skillset would have suited this offense perfectly.
David Wilson had 115 career carries and fumbled 3 times (all lost)
It's no coincidence that some of the best running backs in the NFL also rank among the league's best at holding onto the football as Matt Forte, Arian Foster and Le'Veon Bell led the NFL in ball security in 2014. Among the top-10 rushers in the NFL last season, the average fumble rate was 140.3, in other words, an average of one fumble every 140.3 offensive touches.
Ball security can be improved, but when it comes to NFL Draft prospects, fumble rate can be a telling statistic. Knile Davis entered the NFL with a poor fumble rate out of Arkansas and for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2014, he had four fumbles on 150 offensive touches, fumbling once every 37.5 touches.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
He didn't go down easily. In fact, a few of his fumbles were because he had about 5 players trying to take him down and got stripped in the meantime. He was a very strong dude and an outstanding athlete.
Wilson had a gear that none of the current 3 RB's do. He could absolutely have been a weapon in this offense.
The revisionist history about David Wilson being some terrible RB who fumbled all the time on this board is strange.
He played 21 career NFL games - kind of hard to say what he has or was not.
He did however posses tremendous speed, which defenses always have to account for. A guy who could catch and threaten to go the distance every play is a tremendous asset, especially in this type of offense.
Even if the OL blocking is better, not having a guy who can really threaten the edges makes it harder to run. Wilson would have provided that threat
Unfortunate!
He also only had 6 receptions on 14 targets for his career...
over losing a first round RB? That means you have to use another pick to replace him, instead of a position of need?
Putting him in the doghouse after that first fumble, did nothing for his confidence, and left a weapo n on the bench....Poor vision, poor blocker, didn't know the playbook? We'll never know if the first two could be corrected, or if he would be more utilized in certain play situations, where knowing the book didn't matter....
I just know those two holes Jennings had in the Dallas game would have been changed into TD's instead of long gains, and he was becoming a premier kickoff returner...a valuable weapon.....so yes, I lament the loss in that sense.....I lament it even more, that we didn't use the pick on an OLman or TE, like we should have....
Physically gifted but the lack of field vision hurt him. A creative OC would be able to find ways to use his gifts, mainly as a receiver, but he was never going to be an every-down workhorse type back.
That he got his first starts behind an Oline that was full of injury riddled past their prime vets. Love each one of those guys, but that line was dreadful.
on a fumble at or near the goal line after a short run?
Not a fumble, but a near-safety on a run from the one yard line. Incidentally, it's another example of him making a poor decision on where to go with the ball. Video here - ( New Window )
RE: RE: he had poor vision and went down quite easily
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
I'll give you the poor vision but he was not afraid of contact. That is ridiculous. Go back and look at his highlights. He ran through and around plenty of tackles, unless of course you're referring to the number of times he got smashed behind the line. Not really his fault. Either way, no reality check needed. He was a developing player who's skillset would have suited this offense perfectly.
His "highlights" don't contain any of what I'm talking about, why would they? Perhaps I'm crazy, but I remember him going down on more than a few plays, quite a few plays in fact where little or incidental contact was made and Wilson going down immediately. I don't think I'm imagining it.
Really? The same David Wilson who had no clue where he was supposed to
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
I'll give you the poor vision but he was not afraid of contact. That is ridiculous. Go back and look at his highlights. He ran through and around plenty of tackles, unless of course you're referring to the number of times he got smashed behind the line. Not really his fault. Either way, no reality check needed. He was a developing player who's skillset would have suited this offense perfectly.
His "highlights" don't contain any of what I'm talking about, why would they? Perhaps I'm crazy, but I remember him going down on more than a few plays, quite a few plays in fact where little or incidental contact was made and Wilson going down immediately. I don't think I'm imagining it.
Well then don't look at his highlights. Look at anything you want. More often than not, he did not avoid contact.
Wilson was a good but inconsistent player who was injured and retired before we could confirm if we'd seen the best of him.
Part of that was on him, part of it on the team (OL struggles and the playbook which was apparently changed largely in part because new players had a hard time learning it).
We'll never know what Wilson was or wasn't, that's just how it is.
But he was not Faulk. I like our current group of RB's. I would like to see Williams get more touches. Vereen looks to be a solid addition.
Agree, get Williams out there early and let him pound.
Joey made a good point the the game Review about the OL not having a personality mixing and matching zone and power runs. This group, with Flowers healthy, seems to be more of a power group. Line up and beat up the other guys.
accountability and scrutiny that he did Wilson. Maybe we wouldn't have lost 2 games this year (or at least the Atlanta game) and Donnell sits his ass on the bench from last year.
Vision and ball security, both of which tend to improve with pro coaching and reps. I suspect some fans speak ill of him because they don't understand what they were watching, and/or they're trying to remedy the loss of a #1 draft pick/talent.
Vereen lacks Wilson's explosive AA and breakaway speed, but he's also the superior RB at this stage.
We would legitimately have a top 5 offense this year. We would also have no need for Dwayne Harris and Vereen. Reese could have taken that $$ and blew away any and every offer for McCourtey.
Also, Wilson ran with tremendous heart and aggression
and sho' nuff, SHO"NUFF obliges. Yes it was all TCs fault, not Wilson's. Apparently the favoritism theorists don't recall that Wilson's position coach (Jerrold Ingram) PUBLICLY called him out, stating that he didn't play because he didn't know the playbook.
Wilson was a great athlete and I feel bad for him, But he wasn't
Vision and ball security, both of which tend to improve with pro coaching and reps. I suspect some fans speak ill of him because they don't understand what they were watching, and/or they're trying to remedy the loss of a #1 draft pick/talent.
Vereen lacks Wilson's explosive AA and breakaway speed, but he's also the superior RB at this stage.
He also had problems in pass protection, which is what really kept him off the field for the longest.
And a lot of people just didn't like what appeared to be a panic move reach for a 1st round RB, especially when said offensive line was so bad and needed to be addressed.
that when he was drafted he was already DAMAGED GOODS. (because of his neck injury in college). He knew it ,it was up to the Giants to find out. (They didn't, till it was too late).
If you look at his college tapes, you can see why the Giants were so enamored with him; he great cut-back ability, superior speed, and hard to bring down. When he first came to the Giants, he reminded me of a young "Shady" McCoy.
He could have been the biggest draft steal in NFL (drafted 32nd, over-all); easily bigger than OBJ (drafted 12th over-all).
According to the coaches, DW saw the holes in practice and had some issues seeing them in games with bullets flying.
That often means the player is pressing and just needs to slow down his brain and learn how to be patient in the moment. No guarantees, but with a young kid you have to teach them.
DW flashed plenty of talent at the collegiate level which projected well to the NFL level. His performance in the NFL was incrementally improving in the very brief tenure witnessed. Things like not seeing the hole weren't occurring all the time, there was growth in his game.
Andre Brown averaged 5.3 YPC on 73 carries and Bradshaw averaged 4.6 YPC on 221 carries.
If he sucked half as bad as you all contend how the hell did he average more YPC than Bradshaw that year and almost as much as Brown? It think we'd all do backflips to get a RB who averaged 5.0 YPC on this team.
which while great, still doesn't make him worthy of a 1st round selection.
You don't think Sproles would be a good addition at the end of the 1st round? I'm not saying Wilson would be Sproles, but if I can get Sproles in his prime for a late 1st round pick, I'm running to the podium. The guy is a weapon on both STs and offense, and is a threat to take it to the house.
which while great, still doesn't make him worthy of a 1st round selection.
You don't think Sproles would be a good addition at the end of the 1st round? I'm not saying Wilson would be Sproles, but if I can get Sproles in his prime for a late 1st round pick, I'm running to the podium. The guy is a weapon on both STs and offense, and is a threat to take it to the house.
Sproles was drafted in the 4th round, which is where I prefer a RB to be drafted.
Wilson fulfilled his dream (playing in the NFL) ....
Got paid, didn't end-up a paraplegic and walked away with everybody padding him on the back.
Sadly, for the Giants (and us fans) it didn't work out and we are only left with "what ifs" ( just like when Tucker Fredrikson's career ended early).
To a lesser degree, Marvin Austin's story is very similar - showed top-tier talent in college, got injured there (back); managed to keep it to himself, and gutted-it out as long as he could.
I don't know how frequently this happens to other teams, I just know it keeps happening to the Giants - recently.
out of a 4th rounder. But knowing what we know now - would you give up a late 1st for Sproles, provided you had the need for a RB/PR/KR?
At some point I think the value chart for RB seemed to indicate that you can automatically get them in the later rounds. But think about some of the top guys:
I don't think a late 1st or 2nd round pick is a waste on a RB. They get the ball a lot, if the guy is a solid player then I think it's a pick well spent.
We can sour-grape the loss, every way we want, but to lose a guy like that set us back, "something fierce". Watch him run past (and over) tacklers in his Virginia Tech highlights.
But to have watched him and not think he had tools that could have made him an extremely useful player tells me you may have been missing quite a bit.
Like I said, he had a gear that no RB we have right now had and he was built like a truck. He was very powerful. His vision was absolutely something that hindered him and ball security was something he needed to work on but it's crazy to me that people came away thinking that there was simply nothing there.
not to say I am glad the guy is done playing football but Wilson scared me and not in a good way. Would have been interesting to see him in years 3-4-5 but it wasn't meant to be.
Both Bradshaw & Tiki had the same problems coming in ....
Both fixed the problems and became excellent players, Wilson would have done the same thing, except that he was playing with a suspect neck.
Was it a bad #1 pick ? Yes, it was but not because he couldn't play at a superior level but because the Giants made a colossal medical evaluation mistake.
I think, in the back of his mind he knew that it was VERY likely that that next play was going to be his last. I'm convinced that that stopped him from playing with the reckless fury that he played with at Virginia Tech.
Remember how everyone marveled at how good he took the news that he was done ? It's not surprising, he knew he was playing with "house money".
but his potential was enormous. He needed more time learning the ins and outs of a pro offense (pass protection), running with patience, and refining his ball security. You can't teach speed, and the kid ran with tremendous power. This wasn't some shitty speed back, he could have been a deadly one cut, slasher, home run hitter. With the attention OBJ gets, he would have seen lots of space. It's a shame to see his career end before it really got to develop. He was without a doubt our most exciting kickoff returner of all time.
...but speculating about what type of player he would have become is moot. We'll never know. When he was injured he still had major flaws in his game that needed addressing before he could be trusted.
Ceiling is a player's potential if he fulfills his physical gifts. He had a lower floor if he couldn't address the flaws in his game.
Also knocking the pick on medicals is problematic. Spinal stenosis is tricky to diagnose before symptoms occur as it is difficult to identify in many cases even with an MRI.
He'd also be a great weapon in the passing game. Maybe more dynamic than Shane Vereen. If this team could ever get the screen play down right, Wilson could be a threat to take it all the way every time.
He wasn't at the time. But he had all the potential and never had the chance to improve his game.
The guy was fast. He had no RB skills. Enough with the Wilson fantasies.
The coaching staff had no confidence in Wilson to do the mundane things, and that and his injuries never allowed him to show off his special things.
But he could have been a hall of fame KO Returner in the day...
The guy was fast. He had no RB skills. Enough with the Wilson fantasies.
hahaha.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
But yet he led or was second in the NCAA in broken tackles.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
He didn't go down easily. In fact, a few of his fumbles were because he had about 5 players trying to take him down and got stripped in the meantime. He was a very strong dude and an outstanding athlete.
Wilson had a gear that none of the current 3 RB's do. He could absolutely have been a weapon in this offense.
The revisionist history about David Wilson being some terrible RB who fumbled all the time on this board is strange.
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He had 1 good game where he was an All-Pro.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
But yet he led or was second in the NCAA in broken tackles.
puzzling, yah. It just didn't translate..it MAY have eventually, but we will never know...I'll take Vereen though, He is what David Wilson could have been, although Vereen is much slower, he's elusive.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
I'll give you the poor vision but he was not afraid of contact. That is ridiculous. Go back and look at his highlights. He ran through and around plenty of tackles, unless of course you're referring to the number of times he got smashed behind the line. Not really his fault. Either way, no reality check needed. He was a developing player who's skillset would have suited this offense perfectly.
Ball security can be improved, but when it comes to NFL Draft prospects, fumble rate can be a telling statistic. Knile Davis entered the NFL with a poor fumble rate out of Arkansas and for the Kansas City Chiefs in 2014, he had four fumbles on 150 offensive touches, fumbling once every 37.5 touches.
Link - ( New Window )
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He had 1 good game where he was an All-Pro.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
He didn't go down easily. In fact, a few of his fumbles were because he had about 5 players trying to take him down and got stripped in the meantime. He was a very strong dude and an outstanding athlete.
Wilson had a gear that none of the current 3 RB's do. He could absolutely have been a weapon in this offense.
The revisionist history about David Wilson being some terrible RB who fumbled all the time on this board is strange.
Coping mechanism.
He did however posses tremendous speed, which defenses always have to account for. A guy who could catch and threaten to go the distance every play is a tremendous asset, especially in this type of offense.
Even if the OL blocking is better, not having a guy who can really threaten the edges makes it harder to run. Wilson would have provided that threat
Unfortunate!
So, not all that impressive.
Guy had blazing speed. That was about it as far as I could tell.
those don't turn out so well.
Putting him in the doghouse after that first fumble, did nothing for his confidence, and left a weapo n on the bench....Poor vision, poor blocker, didn't know the playbook? We'll never know if the first two could be corrected, or if he would be more utilized in certain play situations, where knowing the book didn't matter....
I just know those two holes Jennings had in the Dallas game would have been changed into TD's instead of long gains, and he was becoming a premier kickoff returner...a valuable weapon.....so yes, I lament the loss in that sense.....I lament it even more, that we didn't use the pick on an OLman or TE, like we should have....
Not a fumble, but a near-safety on a run from the one yard line. Incidentally, it's another example of him making a poor decision on where to go with the ball.
Video here - ( New Window )
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He had 1 good game where he was an All-Pro.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
I'll give you the poor vision but he was not afraid of contact. That is ridiculous. Go back and look at his highlights. He ran through and around plenty of tackles, unless of course you're referring to the number of times he got smashed behind the line. Not really his fault. Either way, no reality check needed. He was a developing player who's skillset would have suited this offense perfectly.
His "highlights" don't contain any of what I'm talking about, why would they? Perhaps I'm crazy, but I remember him going down on more than a few plays, quite a few plays in fact where little or incidental contact was made and Wilson going down immediately. I don't think I'm imagining it.
He was a GREAT Kickoff returner. That's all. He was not a great running back. At best he may have become a weapon as a situational player.
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In comment 12511901 I Love Clams Casino said:
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He had 1 good game where he was an All-Pro.
Not to say that wouldn't have changed, but people lamenting over losing David Wilson need a reality check
I'll give you the poor vision but he was not afraid of contact. That is ridiculous. Go back and look at his highlights. He ran through and around plenty of tackles, unless of course you're referring to the number of times he got smashed behind the line. Not really his fault. Either way, no reality check needed. He was a developing player who's skillset would have suited this offense perfectly.
His "highlights" don't contain any of what I'm talking about, why would they? Perhaps I'm crazy, but I remember him going down on more than a few plays, quite a few plays in fact where little or incidental contact was made and Wilson going down immediately. I don't think I'm imagining it.
Well then don't look at his highlights. Look at anything you want. More often than not, he did not avoid contact.
Part of that was on him, part of it on the team (OL struggles and the playbook which was apparently changed largely in part because new players had a hard time learning it).
We'll never know what Wilson was or wasn't, that's just how it is.
Agree, get Williams out there early and let him pound.
Joey made a good point the the game Review about the OL not having a personality mixing and matching zone and power runs. This group, with Flowers healthy, seems to be more of a power group. Line up and beat up the other guys.
Vereen lacks Wilson's explosive AA and breakaway speed, but he's also the superior RB at this stage.
Vereen lacks Wilson's explosive AA and breakaway speed, but he's also the superior RB at this stage.
He also had problems in pass protection, which is what really kept him off the field for the longest.
And a lot of people just didn't like what appeared to be a panic move reach for a 1st round RB, especially when said offensive line was so bad and needed to be addressed.
Well....yeah, but....at the same time...
what hole?
If you look at his college tapes, you can see why the Giants were so enamored with him; he great cut-back ability, superior speed, and hard to bring down. When he first came to the Giants, he reminded me of a young "Shady" McCoy.
He could have been the biggest draft steal in NFL (drafted 32nd, over-all); easily bigger than OBJ (drafted 12th over-all).
BINGO!
That often means the player is pressing and just needs to slow down his brain and learn how to be patient in the moment. No guarantees, but with a young kid you have to teach them.
Or Reggie Bush. Or Brian Westbrook. Or even Tiki Barber, who had some of the same issues early on.
If he sucked half as bad as you all contend how the hell did he average more YPC than Bradshaw that year and almost as much as Brown? It think we'd all do backflips to get a RB who averaged 5.0 YPC on this team.
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which while great, still doesn't make him worthy of a 1st round selection.
Or Reggie Bush. Or Brian Westbrook. Or even Tiki Barber, who had some of the same issues early on.
And Tiki Barber being the only one worthy of a high pick in retrospect, which is my point.
Sorry but that facts do not support this. They had just about identical success running behind that line.
IMO, in most instances, the O-line makes the RB, therefore, barring a lock like an Adrian Peterson, you DON'T draft RB's that high.
You are confusing "given a short leash" with legitimate refuting of revisionist history that Wilson was a great player cut down in his prime.
What are you talking about? Wilson is still being excused two years later...
If anything, he garners unwarrented praise for what he actually put on film.
You don't think Sproles would be a good addition at the end of the 1st round? I'm not saying Wilson would be Sproles, but if I can get Sproles in his prime for a late 1st round pick, I'm running to the podium. The guy is a weapon on both STs and offense, and is a threat to take it to the house.
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which while great, still doesn't make him worthy of a 1st round selection.
You don't think Sproles would be a good addition at the end of the 1st round? I'm not saying Wilson would be Sproles, but if I can get Sproles in his prime for a late 1st round pick, I'm running to the podium. The guy is a weapon on both STs and offense, and is a threat to take it to the house.
Sproles was drafted in the 4th round, which is where I prefer a RB to be drafted.
Sadly, for the Giants (and us fans) it didn't work out and we are only left with "what ifs" ( just like when Tucker Fredrikson's career ended early).
To a lesser degree, Marvin Austin's story is very similar - showed top-tier talent in college, got injured there (back); managed to keep it to himself, and gutted-it out as long as he could.
I don't know how frequently this happens to other teams, I just know it keeps happening to the Giants - recently.
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is given such a short leash here in BBI...but it's wait and see for other players.
What are you talking about? Wilson is still being excused two years later...
If anything, he garners unwarrented praise for what he actually put on film.
I didn't know he was still on the roster?
At some point I think the value chart for RB seemed to indicate that you can automatically get them in the later rounds. But think about some of the top guys:
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round
Leveon Bell - 2nd round
Demarco Murray - 3rd round
Lesean Mccoy - 2nd round
Jamaal Charles - 3rd round
I don't think a late 1st or 2nd round pick is a waste on a RB. They get the ball a lot, if the guy is a solid player then I think it's a pick well spent.
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In comment 12512287 SHO'NUFF said:
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is given such a short leash here in BBI...but it's wait and see for other players.
What are you talking about? Wilson is still being excused two years later...
If anything, he garners unwarrented praise for what he actually put on film.
I didn't know he was still on the roster?
He's not. Long gone, which is why I think this thread is odd.
Size-wise, he was more like Emmitt Smith (5'9", 210); style-wise, again, more like LeSean Mccoy.
And pick up a blitz.
Which makes it a poor first round pick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1bO123KOEM
Like I said, he had a gear that no RB we have right now had and he was built like a truck. He was very powerful. His vision was absolutely something that hindered him and ball security was something he needed to work on but it's crazy to me that people came away thinking that there was simply nothing there.
Both fixed the problems and became excellent players, Wilson would have done the same thing, except that he was playing with a suspect neck.
Was it a bad #1 pick ? Yes, it was but not because he couldn't play at a superior level but because the Giants made a colossal medical evaluation mistake.
I think, in the back of his mind he knew that it was VERY likely that that next play was going to be his last. I'm convinced that that stopped him from playing with the reckless fury that he played with at Virginia Tech.
Remember how everyone marveled at how good he took the news that he was done ? It's not surprising, he knew he was playing with "house money".
We'll never know what we may have had in Wilson but Barber in particular overcame some of the same problems with the same head coach.
Like I said, it was a stupid pick, not because Wilson wasn't a great player .....
Who in their right mind doesn't make absolutely sure about a player's injury history (especially your #1) ?!
Also knocking the pick on medicals is problematic. Spinal stenosis is tricky to diagnose before symptoms occur as it is difficult to identify in many cases even with an MRI.
indeed.