Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
two of my favorite current athletes, Ryan Howard and Derrick Rose, have been dealing with major injuries and have developed new ones. First it was Cruz foot, then his knee, now his calf.
Its a very disturbing pattern. I never got the optimism he would produce this year. I said he was going to miss 6 games, now I am afraid it will be much longer.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
They do get better when you give them time to heal. If he's got a torn calf, it's not a situation where you take him out back and end his career.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
They do get better when you give them time to heal. If he's got a torn calf, it's not a situation where you take him out back and end his career.
But when you can save over 6-7 million a year on your cap for a guy who is constantly hurt and in decline to begin with.... you have to consider it.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
They do get better when you give them time to heal. If he's got a torn calf, it's not a situation where you take him out back and end his career.
But when you can save over 6-7 million a year on your cap for a guy who is constantly hurt and in decline to begin with.... you have to consider it.
He's got plenty of money left on his deal. Are you sure they'd save anything by cutting him now?
Was really hoping he'd be able to play this week. This setback makes me feel that he's not going to be able to. I'm starting to doubt whether we'll see him at all this year.
Maybe he'll practice tomorrow? Really concerned and curious to see how this all shakes out.
We cant go another week with Dwayne Harris in the slot. Even though Wes Welker is better at that position I wouldn't mind seeing Hakeem Nicks get a chance. Always had good chemistry with Eli.
two of my favorite current athletes, Ryan Howard and Derrick Rose, have been dealing with major injuries and have developed new ones. First it was Cruz foot, then his knee, now his calf.
Its a very disturbing pattern. I never got the optimism he would produce this year. I said he was going to miss 6 games, now I am afraid it will be much longer.
I got on you for the 6 games thing, looks like I was wrong. But yeah, this sucks, we need him.
two of my favorite current athletes, Ryan Howard and Derrick Rose, have been dealing with major injuries and have developed new ones. First it was Cruz foot, then his knee, now his calf.
Its a very disturbing pattern. I never got the optimism he would produce this year. I said he was going to miss 6 games, now I am afraid it will be much longer.
I got on you for the 6 games thing, looks like I was wrong. But yeah, this sucks, we need him.
I know I am harder on Cruz than most, and it does suck seeing this. Nothing would have been better than to see him come back and dominate. I would have loved to be wrong in his situation cause he was a great player/teammate/person. You absolutely love to root for guys and his story.
But the more I am seeing lower half injuries, especially major ones, you just see that they never come back as they are. There are rare cases like AP, but just seeing go from one part to another just never gave me confidence. I am not bashing Cruz, cause we know he aint dogging it, I just hate the history.
You did say possible setback, right? So it's possible that his is minor and he'll play this week??
Damn, man. This just takes all my optimism for the weekend and stomps on it. What football gods did we piss off these last few years? Tell me who/what we need to sacrifice to get this team back healthy.
We cant go another week with Dwayne Harris in the slot. Even though Wes Welker is better at that position I wouldn't mind seeing Hakeem Nicks get a chance. Always had good chemistry with Eli.
Nicks is physically cooked. He can't play the position anymore. I'd much rather have the Giants sign Welker, and at this point, i don't know why they haven't. I understand his contributions will be limited, but he is far better than Dwayne Harris.
probably means he won't be available this weekend, as cautious as the coaches and doctors are with injuries. He was probably going to be a pitch count anyway, like Beason was last week.
Disappointing, but the impact of his being there was likely going to be more emotional than tangible. If it bums the team out, they've still got a few days to pull it together.
to guys after they sign their big contracts? You see it all over the league...not just with us.
Plus, I don't understand how you can be cleared to practice and then you have to shut it down. It makes one wonder what is going on with the Giants medically and training wise.
This seems to be a common theme over the past few years.
The same folks who were shocked that Weatherford got cut may have to prepare themselves.
Punters are a bit more replaceable than WRs though. How does the price of cutting weatherford compare to the cost of cutting Cruz. And in the mean time, there are 13 games to play without the guy you expected to before like a premier slot/#2 WR.
This will make Cruz 29th game he will while a member of the Giants
The cap savings will be the same if we do it before June 1st, next year. And is there nobody on the roster we can afford to part with to sign a new WR? Assuming we really need one?
The cap savings will be the same if we do it before June 1st, next year. And is there nobody on the roster we can afford to part with to sign a new WR? Assuming we really need one?
When I refer to cut him, I meant after the year is over.
I still think the season relies on Cruz. If he can get back to just 80% of the old Cruz, we can make the post season. Otherwise, I doubt it. No pass rush could be an even bigger issue. I actually can't decide which is worse.
I had a grade 2 calf strain while playing indoor soccer last winter, sat out over 2 months and my first game back I tweaked the calf again within like 5 minutes. But it didn't take me too long to recover from that....maybe a week or two.
Who knows, maybe he's breaking up some scar tissue in there. It could be a total setback but that's not a given yet.
anyway one who does not see the correlation between this situation and poor personnel decisions during coaching cut downs is just standing their ground held since the beginning of this debate. Cutting him was foolish in every single way.
and the team...this totally sucks. He's waited this long and to have this happen this quickly does not make me confident on when he is going to be able to return. This could take a while, too early to speculate but there is not much positive to take from it except that he was smart enough to not push through it and injure himself worse.
to send him to temp IR? It just doesn't seem like he is really going to be ready soon. It sounds like he is pushing it, and shouldn't be.
Either way, Cruz's contract will be renegotiated for next year. No way he goes into next year with that kind of cap number. He'll either renegotiate or be cut. I still hold out hope for the happy ending, but right now this story is gut wrenching. He is my favorite Giant.
Ebenezer Samuel @ebenezersamuel 57s58 seconds ago
Hugely important to realize what Rueben Randle was indicating: Even when Victor Cruz was out there, he didn't have his full burst.
I've been on the Randle bandwagon for some time. He needs to be starting quality consistently or the team will need to spend more resources on the position this off-season.
.... have to go. Fire every damn sorry ass one of them. This is outrageous that these morons don't know how to keep players from reinsuring themselves. Coach pressures guys to play through injuries and the guys who should know better know nothing it would seem. There is no excuse for this ongoing problem. The staff is incompetent.
Can't add much to this conversation, except for....
don't remember calf muscles being an issue for football players like this before (i.e., Berhe, Cruz). Maybe my memory is hazy.
I don't think people can really appreciate the beating you put on yourself rehabbing from a major surgery like an ACL or a Patella unless you have one done to you.
Overcompensating and stressing other muscle groups because of pain, or pushing your limits to return in a timely fashion all has a cost on the body. Hell, you basically have to re-learn to walk and run again.
during camp. That was over a month ago and before the calf injury. The calf injury is from him trying to go full burst in camp he indicated last night on ESPN NY radio.
a lot of his time on social media talking about "the return" - it's becoming somewhat of a joke at this point. It's a freaking calf injury, either get out there and play or keep quiet until you're ready to roll.
but I'm with Eric. A calf injury? C'mon man. Suck it up and get out there.
I'm not saying it isn't serious. I just don't remember Giants being out for "calf" on the injury report, let alone months (Berhe) or weeks (Cruz). But I probably am not remembering this correctly.
don't remember calf muscles being an issue for football players like this before (i.e., Berhe, Cruz). Maybe my memory is hazy.
The Berhe injury seemed like just a freakish/strange one to me. But Cruz makes more sense. When you are recovering from a tendon surgery, you are not going to run "normally" for a good year. It would not surprise me if the movements associated with playing WR forced him to place more strain on his calf than the other muscles in his leg. Pretty much your body naturally compensates for the weaker part of your limb. Not much an individual can do about it but work through it. The good news is a calf injury is not insurmountable, but it needs time to rest and heal. But in order for Cruz to move beyond this stage, he needs to continue strengthen his leg, and that's hard to do when you are recovering for a related injury.
I say shut him down for at least two more weeks, but I'm not a doctor.
worked his ass off this offseason and threw a party that was strictly family...not like he threw himself some rager or playboy mansion type party here
That was so overblown...the guy is obviously doing what he can to get back on the field and felt good enough to go today. Calf injuries are tricky..let's just hope he can get back asap as opposed to taking shots at the guy
I posted a thread about this a couple of days ago...
If he's using 'the return' as a self-motivator, it's really not something for anyone else to judge. Rehab is the absolute worst. The guys who have 2 or 3 ACLs like Domenik Hixon are really, really mentally tough.
did I get the third degree, when I "suggested" that they PUP him in preseason.....
This is going to be a real topic of discussion...this guy has cost us a roster spot.....he has cost us giving up James Jones.....this front office has some explaining to do...we just seem to make the wrong decisions when it comes to expecting players to return from injuries....counting on Randle, who may or may not have much left in the tank at this point.....giving Beason the big contract, and not using that towards LJ.....keeping Flowers out there, when he was hurt....it goes on and on...
clear on what exactly his calf injury entails. Is it a muscle strain, tear, clot? Can someone clarify in layman's terms?
When you hear 'calf strain', it's still a tear of the muscle. It's just a matter of to what degree. It's been reported as a strain, which means it's not a full tear.
Cruz also said the doctors found 'blood' when they looked at the MRI which slowed his return. This can lead to a Nat Berhe situation where a clot forms during the healing process. Nobody said anything about a clot for Cruz though.
We cant go another week with Dwayne Harris in the slot. Even though Wes Welker is better at that position I wouldn't mind seeing Hakeem Nicks get a chance. Always had good chemistry with Eli.
Please stop talking about Nicks. Did you watch him as a Colt?? He's done. Period.
.... have to go. Fire every damn sorry ass one of them. This is outrageous that these morons don't know how to keep players from reinsuring themselves. Coach pressures guys to play through injuries and the guys who should know better know nothing it would seem. There is no excuse for this ongoing problem. The staff is incompetent.
Knee jerk? Maybe. But I can't help but wonder if JPP knew that getting treated in FL was his best possible decision.
Doomster, you caught flak because you don't understand the PUP...
Cruz suffered a horrific injury - back after that Philly game, if someone told you that Cruz would be getting ready to practice around week 4, you'd be thrilled.
Now, a minor setback and we're all running to cut the guy and spend the money somewhere else.
Relax - it may end up being awhile until we see him, but he'll be back.
I'll do you one better...how is it compartment syndrom? Just as good of a question. None of us have examined his leg and it's fairly easy to diagnose, correct?
clear on what exactly his calf injury entails. Is it a muscle strain, tear, clot? Can someone clarify in layman's terms?
When you hear 'calf strain', it's still a tear of the muscle. It's just a matter of to what degree. It's been reported as a strain, which means it's not a full tear.
Cruz also said the doctors found 'blood' when they looked at the MRI which slowed his return. This can lead to a Nat Berhe situation where a clot forms during the healing process. Nobody said anything about a clot for Cruz though.
I still can't believe they were pushing Behre to come back after he injured it in OTAs. That was totally mishandled.
I really wasn't expecting much from Victor this year. Don't forget in the season prior to last, he only caught 1 TD IIRC. Then the weak start to last season before he got hurt. We haven't really gotten much return from the big contract and if we don't get some return this year, its hard to argue that the minimum $6.1 Mil savings next year isn't appealing. I also don't have a ton of faith that Jerry will spend all of this cap money wisely next season.
Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Yeah, I wish our GM won as many superbowls as theirs!
Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Yeah, I wish our GM won as many superbowls as theirs!
Green Bay's was a real Super Bowl win. Ours were just lucky.
Can we start banning anybody that complains about letting James Jones go from this point forward? It's completely ruining the site. It's too much. It's on every thread and is becoming very trollish. I understand that means you'll have to ban yourself in short order, but please, let's get this site moving forward.
We all get it. The Giants screwed up by releasing James Jones. But you guys bringing it up 1000000000 times a day is not going to change anything and all it's doing is torturing the readers of this site. And we had nothing to do with it. So please, everyone, send all future complaints about Jamrs Jones directly to the Giants and let the rest of us have some finality to the matter.
but I'm with Eric. A calf injury? C'mon man. Suck it up and get out there.
I'm not saying it isn't serious. I just don't remember Giants being out for "calf" on the injury report, let alone months (Berhe) or weeks (Cruz). But I probably am not remembering this correctly.
Sammy Watkins has what injury that looks like it will keep him out of Sunday's game?
Hint:
It's a calf injury.
I'm pretty sure that other players, besides Berhe, are also having this problem this season.
the point is a WR makes sense, especially over a TE, eg.
I would much prefer Martellus over a WR. Alshon is a better player, but I think Martellus' blocking can help us bring back a consistent running attack.
I'll do you one better...how is it compartment syndrom? Just as good of a question. None of us have examined his leg and it's fairly easy to diagnose, correct?
Me that we use precaution on injuries and keep that player out of action for longer than other teams then as soon as we give them green light, boom, relapse.
I'm not sure that's true. It's not in any teams best interest to rush a player only to compound the problem. The goal is to get them back to the point they can play every week.
I do not care how many stats they put up about their draft picks - their defense has been bad for 5 straight years despite all their home grown players. Their OL is still not good.
I think we may have seen the last of him. If he doesn't see the field this year will they cut bait next year? Save money, or no? Do they just keep him around just in case he someday can play, like that safety from LSU a few years back.
of posters are overreacting to this. Even if he's out for half the year he will be a great asset when healthy, as long as the patella injury is also healed. The current injury is a calf, not the knee; it's muscular, not skeletal. So it will heal given time. We'll know more about whether the patella is healthy once the calf heals, but I'm hopeful that he'll be back to at least close to his old self once the calf issues are over.
Why would you possibly cut him until you knew whether he could return to his old form?
before the injury. He had 4 TD's in the last two seasons (and three of those came on opening day 2013). He was dropping passes and not running his routes correctly... I don't think losing him for a few more weeks is the worst thing that can happen. Nice to have him back, but not a biggie.
Over on the Dallas board they are pilloring Garrett, he didn't make the right half time adjustments last week and got outcoached.
They are right of course, he coached much better when he had Romo, Dez, Mincey, Gregory, Hardy and a few others.
So Green Bay has the greatest QB of all time and they have one superbowl and we have two but they know what they are doing and we employ idiots.
It's not even funny, something nasty about it...the common man leading his life of "quiet desperation" tapping into his vast wealth of knowledge gained while a third stringer at Smallsville high some thirty years ago and second guessing the brilliant top of his professional , earning millions, assisted by data bases and tendency studies....full time professional.
It is an attraction of the sport, the second guess and hindsight empowering and enabling the frustrated, the sad and under-appreciated. For one moment, they count...even if only in their mind.
Over on the Dallas board they are pilloring Garrett, he didn't make the right half time adjustments last week and got outcoached.
They are right of course, he coached much better when he had Romo, Dez, Mincey, Gregory, Hardy and a few others.
So Green Bay has the greatest QB of all time and they have one superbowl and we have two but they know what they are doing and we employ idiots.
It's not even funny, something nasty about it...the common man leading his life of "quiet desperation" tapping into his vast wealth of knowledge gained while a third stringer at Smallsville high some thirty years ago and second guessing the brilliant top of his professional , earning millions, assisted by data bases and tendency studies....full time professional.
It is an attraction of the sport, the second guess and hindsight empowering and enabling the frustrated, the sad and under-appreciated. For one moment, they count...even if only in their mind.
Okay, now say that again, but this time in English please.
...simply wish Victor well and express best wishes for a speedy recovery.
"cut him" "cap hit" ?
Victor Cruz is an important and inspiring player for NY Giants fans. I hope this is a minor setback for him and that he can get past his major injury to enjoy a long career as a Giant.
takes about 8 weeks to heal, hopefully he didn't extend that. We need him back, but I'm on the bandwagon that thinks he hasn't done shit since signing his big contract and its time for him to start stepping up.
I didn't think Cruz had anything near the burst he used to show in Albany. He didn't look confident with his body, either (it's that bounce in your step that upper level athletes have when they move around). He was able to cut and run straight line...to a point...but he was nowhere near ready.
Oh, and don't be shocked if Tom announces that we're bringing back Preston Parker. Parker knows the system, he's better than anything out there (even with the drops) and Eli has stated he's confident having Parker out there.
If Cruz is going to be out for a while, I can see it happening, and soon.
The meltdown on BBI (should that happen) will be epic, of course...
Oh, and don't be shocked if Tom announces that we're bringing back Preston Parker. Parker knows the system, he's better than anything out there (even with the drops) and Eli has stated he's confident having Parker out there.
If Cruz is going to be out for a while, I can see it happening, and soon.
The meltdown on BBI (should that happen) will be epic, of course...
I didn't think Cruz had anything near the burst he used to show in Albany. He didn't look confident with his body, either (it's that bounce in your step that upper level athletes have when they move around). He was able to cut and run straight line...to a point...but he was nowhere near ready.
Oh, and don't be shocked if Tom announces that we're bringing back Preston Parker. Parker knows the system, he's better than anything out there (even with the drops) and Eli has stated he's confident having Parker out there.
If Cruz is going to be out for a while, I can see it happening, and soon.
The meltdown on BBI (should that happen) will be epic, of course...
John, not doubting you but then what the Giants are doing makes ZERO sense. If they thought Cruz was really limited, why the heck would they go with four WR's last week? Now the training staff may have misjudged the status of his calf, but if there were long-term concerns here, then the moves they have made (or not made) don't make sense.
I'll now have to endure more crap from my Packers fan friends over our "gift" of James Jones to them.
Did Jones have to clear waivers (I admit, I'm pretty ignorant about the waiver rules)? Did teams which finished ahead of the Packers get a crack at Jones before the Packers did when we cut him?
Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Shitty thing is i get the feeling they all go together or stay, Reese's org is killing this team. Maybe its Ross and not Reese, but the talent we are drafting and acquiring is not working.
Here's what I said in my training camp report (first day of open camp) about Victor.
Quote:
He's doing ok, but it's not the explosion I remember in Albany. He does seem to be able to make lateral cuts. I'd put him closer to 80% than the 90% he's claiming...but for this stage in his recovery, he's doing amazing stuff. The key would be tomorrow, to see how well he does after a full day in practice. His body language is still not what I would like to see...if you look at Beckham (or Randel), you see a tightness and spring to their steps. Victor isn't there yet, and one symptom is how often he had his hat (helmet) off...he's not in football shape yet.
Quote:
John, not doubting you but then what the Giants are doing makes ZERO sense. If they thought Cruz was really limited, why the heck would they go with four WR's last week?
Coaches like TC really want to go to war with guys who they trust/feel comfortable with. Remember Bill Parcells talking about "his guys"? Tom's from that same coaching tree.
That's why I think he let Jones go...Jones was just a camp body, so that Eli would have someone to throw to while the walking wounded (Cruz/Randle) could heal.
Tom wanted to keep Parker, I think that was one of the harder cuts he had since he's been here.
I think the reason Parker had to be cut was that it was even more important to impress on the team that people who can't be trusted won't stick. That Tom was committed to winning, and was willing to make sacrifices to accomplish that goal.
That does not explain Donnell, but there's where being a starter saves him. If Larry was a third string TE, he's gone after the stunts he's pulled.
As far as 4 WR's (really 3, since Davis does not play)...well, he took a risk. Then again, he could always have gone 2 TE's if necessary.
Quote:
Now the training staff may have misjudged the status of his calf, but if there were long-term concerns here, then the moves they have made (or not made) don't make sense.
I think they do, Eric, if you look at it from Tom's view. He expected Victor to be back by now. He expected Preston to be a reliable 4th WR. He didn't expect Rueben to be a no show the first 2 weeks.
None of that happened, of course, but the moves the team made were based on the above happening.
As far as Victor goes, I'm no expert, Eric, but I'm dammed if I know why what was obvious from 100 yards away at camp wasn't obvious when coaches who have see athletes for years on end can't see the same thing from 10 feet or less away.
Sometimes, you can't go by faith, or by your hopes and dreams, or by what the medical staff says; you have to go by your gut, what your "sixth sense" tells you, and what you see. I'd love to hear from the coaches here (Anish, Dorgan) or even ex players like B on this.
I hear you and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm still uneasy about that explanation.
Coughlin has sounded legitimately confused about Cruz's calf situation for about a month (first week or two, calling it a strain, then simply saying "no change, no change" day after day). He also seemed annoyed/confused about Randle's tendinitis.
As a former WR coach and a guy who I still think loves to coach the position, he knows Davis wasn't ready. He also knows what he has in Harris.
The whole thing doesn't smell right to me. I can't put my finger on it. Your explanation is probably the most logical, but the decision-making behind it is suspect.
These f'n idiots cut James Jones as if they had an embarrassment of riches at WR in early Septmber 2015.
Somebody seriously needs to be held accontable for such an egregious error in team / roster management. It's extremely poor decision making that needs to be corrected.
Oo boy. Giants say Victor Cruz pulled himself out of practice....because he felt something in his calf.
TC on Cruz: "Victor came out and tried to do individuals. He felt the calf again and that's all he did."
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leg injuries never go away.
Glad we're waiting this out and not overreacting.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
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In comment 12516524 dep026 said:
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leg injuries never go away.
Glad we're waiting this out and not overreacting.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
Agreed. Been saying it since then as well.
Dammit.
Sounds like Berhe all over again, comes back onto the practice field, then he reinjures his calf and then has season ending surgery...
Its a very disturbing pattern. I never got the optimism he would produce this year. I said he was going to miss 6 games, now I am afraid it will be much longer.
They may be ready for all we know, but the problem is they are injury prone.
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In comment 12516524 dep026 said:
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leg injuries never go away.
Glad we're waiting this out and not overreacting.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
They do get better when you give them time to heal. If he's got a torn calf, it's not a situation where you take him out back and end his career.
You can not blame the team for this, Cruz himself said he was 100% and ran all weekend and said he was fine..
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In comment 12516527 Randy in CT said:
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In comment 12516524 dep026 said:
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leg injuries never go away.
Glad we're waiting this out and not overreacting.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
They do get better when you give them time to heal. If he's got a torn calf, it's not a situation where you take him out back and end his career.
But when you can save over 6-7 million a year on your cap for a guy who is constantly hurt and in decline to begin with.... you have to consider it.
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In comment 12516533 dep026 said:
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In comment 12516527 Randy in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 12516524 dep026 said:
Quote:
leg injuries never go away.
Glad we're waiting this out and not overreacting.
Is this setback number 3, 4? I have been predicting this since the offseason. When you are dealing with lower half injuries, they dont magically get better.
They do get better when you give them time to heal. If he's got a torn calf, it's not a situation where you take him out back and end his career.
But when you can save over 6-7 million a year on your cap for a guy who is constantly hurt and in decline to begin with.... you have to consider it.
He's got plenty of money left on his deal. Are you sure they'd save anything by cutting him now?
Maybe he'll practice tomorrow? Really concerned and curious to see how this all shakes out.
Its a very disturbing pattern. I never got the optimism he would produce this year. I said he was going to miss 6 games, now I am afraid it will be much longer.
I got on you for the 6 games thing, looks like I was wrong. But yeah, this sucks, we need him.
I am not a cap expert by any means, but it seems like if we can save 3-4 million by cutting an injury prone player, we would have to consider it.
Randle has shown up once and had bad knees all throughout summer.
Cruz was bouncing back from a catastrophic knee injury with an additional calf injury.
Preston Parker has now been cut from the roster due to overall terrible performance.
Just one of the worst decisions of the TC/Reese era. No ifs ands or buts.
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two of my favorite current athletes, Ryan Howard and Derrick Rose, have been dealing with major injuries and have developed new ones. First it was Cruz foot, then his knee, now his calf.
Its a very disturbing pattern. I never got the optimism he would produce this year. I said he was going to miss 6 games, now I am afraid it will be much longer.
I got on you for the 6 games thing, looks like I was wrong. But yeah, this sucks, we need him.
I know I am harder on Cruz than most, and it does suck seeing this. Nothing would have been better than to see him come back and dominate. I would have loved to be wrong in his situation cause he was a great player/teammate/person. You absolutely love to root for guys and his story.
But the more I am seeing lower half injuries, especially major ones, you just see that they never come back as they are. There are rare cases like AP, but just seeing go from one part to another just never gave me confidence. I am not bashing Cruz, cause we know he aint dogging it, I just hate the history.
Randle has shown up once and had bad knees all throughout summer.
Cruz was bouncing back from a catastrophic knee injury with an additional calf injury.
Jones doesn't play slot -get over it already.
Preston Parker has now been cut from the roster due to overall terrible performance.
Just one of the worst decisions of the TC/Reese era. No ifs ands or buts.
Randle has shown up once and had bad knees all throughout summer.
Cruz was bouncing back from a catastrophic knee injury with an additional calf injury.
Preston Parker has now been cut from the roster due to overall terrible performance.
Just one of the worst decisions of the TC/Reese era. No ifs ands or buts.
Cutting James Jones wouldnt make my top 50 mistakes by the two. Let it go. Its done and over with.
you easily could of had Jones, Randle and Beckham on the field all at once...
The notion Jones doesnt play the slot should not come up, because Beckham is moved all over the field to try and get away from Double coverage...
I think you are just seeing frustration boiling over cause everyone is rooting for him.
I bet everyone here would love to be proven wrong.
Damn, man. This just takes all my optimism for the weekend and stomps on it. What football gods did we piss off these last few years? Tell me who/what we need to sacrifice to get this team back healthy.
WR Victor Cruz's 2016 cap number: $9.9 million.
This your first time on BBI?
This would be a major kick in the dick though if he can't go this weekend.
Regardless, Jones doesn't have to play the slot in a 3-WR package.
That argument makes no sense.
Nicks is physically cooked. He can't play the position anymore. I'd much rather have the Giants sign Welker, and at this point, i don't know why they haven't. I understand his contributions will be limited, but he is far better than Dwayne Harris.
Disappointing, but the impact of his being there was likely going to be more emotional than tangible. If it bums the team out, they've still got a few days to pull it together.
WR Victor Cruz's 2016 cap number: $9.9 million.
I feel like the only thing this does is encourage people to be even more bitter about player salaries than they normally are.
Plus, I don't understand how you can be cleared to practice and then you have to shut it down. It makes one wonder what is going on with the Giants medically and training wise.
This seems to be a common theme over the past few years.
Rueben Randle said Cruz looked a little "gimpy" in routes from the start. "I don't think he's too far away but not there quite yet."
Ebenezer Samuel @ebenezersamuel 18s18 seconds ago East Rutherford, NJ
Randle said the other receivers kind of suggested Cruz needed to head to sideline.
The fact he had a setback that quickly, is not a very good sign at all..
With only 5 Wrs currently on the Roster, i expect a receiver signed today or Tomorrow...Can not go the rest of the season withonly 4 healthy WRs
Rueben Randle on Cruz: "He looked good in the initial routes. But he didn't look like the Cruz that we know."
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leg injuries never go away.
Glad we're waiting this out and not overreacting.
Nah. I'd rather overreact. It's more fun.
Rueben Randle on Victor Cruz suffering a setback at practice: "It sucks, to say the least."
The OC makes cuts?
Punters are a bit more replaceable than WRs though. How does the price of cutting weatherford compare to the cost of cutting Cruz. And in the mean time, there are 13 games to play without the guy you expected to before like a premier slot/#2 WR.
That is a lot of games missed for a receiver not even through 6 years of his NFL career.
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and chicken little stuff to a minimum? Let's wait and see what happens before we go with the Kevin Bacon in Animal House routine.
This your first time on BBI?
This would be a major kick in the dick though if he can't go this weekend.
Yes. It's my first time. Please explain to me this game of football.
WR Victor Cruz's 2016 cap number: $9.9 million.
How much of that is "dead" if we cut him?
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By Mcadoo cutting jones
The OC makes cuts?
LMAO.
When I refer to cut him, I meant after the year is over.
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Big Blue Interactive @BigBlueInteract 2m2 minutes ago
WR Victor Cruz's 2016 cap number: $9.9 million.
How much of that is "dead" if we cut him?
$3.8M, according to Spotrac.
Link - ( New Window )
dep026 : 1:54 pm : link : reply
leg injuries never go away.
Take a bow!
I'd enjoy them proving me wrong though.
Who knows, maybe he's breaking up some scar tissue in there. It could be a total setback but that's not a given yet.
I am not a cap expert by any means, but it seems like if we can save 3-4 million by cutting an injury prone player, we would have to consider it.
I suspect the deal will be renegotiated this off-season unless Cruz is able to play ~8 or so games at a decently high level.
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It's time to seriously think about cutting him
dep026 : 1:54 pm : link : reply
leg injuries never go away.
Take a bow!
actually its a very realistic possibility due to his high cap number next year and constant injuries throughout the years.
and if you are going to call someone a "dumass" at least know how to fucking spell, dipshit.
Every time he gets close, something happens.
Either way, Cruz's contract will be renegotiated for next year. No way he goes into next year with that kind of cap number. He'll either renegotiate or be cut. I still hold out hope for the happy ending, but right now this story is gut wrenching. He is my favorite Giant.
Rueben Randle said teammates could see Victor Cruz was a bit tentative when he had to push off the calf + go full speed up field. #Giants
Hugely important to realize what Rueben Randle was indicating: Even when Victor Cruz was out there, he didn't have his full burst.
bingo.
You could argue that Julian Talley had a much better spring than Parker as well. And he was cut today.
Hugely important to realize what Rueben Randle was indicating: Even when Victor Cruz was out there, he didn't have his full burst.
I've been on the Randle bandwagon for some time. He needs to be starting quality consistently or the team will need to spend more resources on the position this off-season.
Hugely important to realize what Rueben Randle was indicating: Even when Victor Cruz was out there, he didn't have his full burst.
odd thing is though.....wasn't it Randle who said Cruz looked "faster than ever...or as fast as he ever was"....this summer??
Rueben Randle said Victor Cruz looked OK running routes. Did not have Cruz-ian burst when turning upfield. Big part of Cruz's game missing.
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Ebenezer Samuel @ebenezersamuel 57s58 seconds ago
Hugely important to realize what Rueben Randle was indicating: Even when Victor Cruz was out there, he didn't have his full burst.
odd thing is though.....wasn't it Randle who said Cruz looked "faster than ever...or as fast as he ever was"....this summer??
Perhaps - but that was before the calf injury. If it's still bothering him, I would expect it would show up in his acceleration ability.
He ran on Monday and supposed did well. Coughlin sounded cautiously optimistic too.
He wasn't cleared to play in the game. That was probably going to be based on how he looked in practice had he been able to work.
He ran all weekend and said he was fine, he ran 20 routes yesterday on the side and said he felt good...
he declared himself 100% yesterday...
DAMMIT!!!!
I don't think people can really appreciate the beating you put on yourself rehabbing from a major surgery like an ACL or a Patella unless you have one done to you.
Overcompensating and stressing other muscle groups because of pain, or pushing your limits to return in a timely fashion all has a cost on the body. Hell, you basically have to re-learn to walk and run again.
F'ing editors
I'm not saying it isn't serious. I just don't remember Giants being out for "calf" on the injury report, let alone months (Berhe) or weeks (Cruz). But I probably am not remembering this correctly.
Rex Ryan just said on @WFAN660 Sammy Watkins is likely out this week as well. A little stronger than he stated earlier.
The Berhe injury seemed like just a freakish/strange one to me. But Cruz makes more sense. When you are recovering from a tendon surgery, you are not going to run "normally" for a good year. It would not surprise me if the movements associated with playing WR forced him to place more strain on his calf than the other muscles in his leg. Pretty much your body naturally compensates for the weaker part of your limb. Not much an individual can do about it but work through it. The good news is a calf injury is not insurmountable, but it needs time to rest and heal. But in order for Cruz to move beyond this stage, he needs to continue strengthen his leg, and that's hard to do when you are recovering for a related injury.
I say shut him down for at least two more weeks, but I'm not a doctor.
That was so overblown...the guy is obviously doing what he can to get back on the field and felt good enough to go today. Calf injuries are tricky..let's just hope he can get back asap as opposed to taking shots at the guy
If he's using 'the return' as a self-motivator, it's really not something for anyone else to judge. Rehab is the absolute worst. The guys who have 2 or 3 ACLs like Domenik Hixon are really, really mentally tough.
Lets see if they sign Welker tomorrow.
This is going to be a real topic of discussion...this guy has cost us a roster spot.....he has cost us giving up James Jones.....this front office has some explaining to do...we just seem to make the wrong decisions when it comes to expecting players to return from injuries....counting on Randle, who may or may not have much left in the tank at this point.....giving Beason the big contract, and not using that towards LJ.....keeping Flowers out there, when he was hurt....it goes on and on...
When you hear 'calf strain', it's still a tear of the muscle. It's just a matter of to what degree. It's been reported as a strain, which means it's not a full tear.
Cruz also said the doctors found 'blood' when they looked at the MRI which slowed his return. This can lead to a Nat Berhe situation where a clot forms during the healing process. Nobody said anything about a clot for Cruz though.
Please stop talking about Nicks. Did you watch him as a Colt?? He's done. Period.
Knee jerk? Maybe. But I can't help but wonder if JPP knew that getting treated in FL was his best possible decision.
There is no other option. At the start of camp he looked fine. This all came up later.
Huh?
Now, a minor setback and we're all running to cut the guy and spend the money somewhere else.
Relax - it may end up being awhile until we see him, but he'll be back.
I'll do you one better...how is it compartment syndrom? Just as good of a question. None of us have examined his leg and it's fairly easy to diagnose, correct?
He may have also hurt it playing basketball and running as part of his rehab. I always thought he was pushing it back in spring.
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clear on what exactly his calf injury entails. Is it a muscle strain, tear, clot? Can someone clarify in layman's terms?
When you hear 'calf strain', it's still a tear of the muscle. It's just a matter of to what degree. It's been reported as a strain, which means it's not a full tear.
Cruz also said the doctors found 'blood' when they looked at the MRI which slowed his return. This can lead to a Nat Berhe situation where a clot forms during the healing process. Nobody said anything about a clot for Cruz though.
I still can't believe they were pushing Behre to come back after he injured it in OTAs. That was totally mishandled.
...how much cap money do we gain when we cut Victor?
Just pile it onto the bucks we've already got.
I'd target him to either return on 10/25 at Dallas or on 11/29 at Washington.
not good
If the Giants are any good they'll work through it.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
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Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Yeah, I wish our GM won as many superbowls as theirs!
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In comment 12517031 Ginny Poo said:
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Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Yeah, I wish our GM won as many superbowls as theirs!
Green Bay's was a real Super Bowl win. Ours were just lucky.
We all get it. The Giants screwed up by releasing James Jones. But you guys bringing it up 1000000000 times a day is not going to change anything and all it's doing is torturing the readers of this site. And we had nothing to do with it. So please, everyone, send all future complaints about Jamrs Jones directly to the Giants and let the rest of us have some finality to the matter.
Thanks in advance.
Alston is always nursing injuries, himself.
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but I'm with Eric. A calf injury? C'mon man. Suck it up and get out there.
I'm not saying it isn't serious. I just don't remember Giants being out for "calf" on the injury report, let alone months (Berhe) or weeks (Cruz). But I probably am not remembering this correctly.
Sammy Watkins has what injury that looks like it will keep him out of Sunday's game?
Hint:
It's a calf injury.
I'm pretty sure that other players, besides Berhe, are also having this problem this season.
Randle has shown up once and had bad knees all throughout summer.
Cruz was bouncing back from a catastrophic knee injury with an additional calf injury.
Preston Parker has now been cut from the roster due to overall terrible performance.
Just one of the worst decisions of the TC/Reese era. No ifs ands or buts.
You know this wasn't a Reese decision, right?
The point is whoever cut Jones it sure as hell wasn't St. Coughlin.
I would much prefer Martellus over a WR. Alshon is a better player, but I think Martellus' blocking can help us bring back a consistent running attack.
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if you're going to spend in an effort for now and the future.
Alston is always nursing injuries, himself.
This.
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.
I'll do you one better...how is it compartment syndrom? Just as good of a question. None of us have examined his leg and it's fairly easy to diagnose, correct?
Thanks for the snark reply.
Why would you possibly cut him until you knew whether he could return to his old form?
Over on the Dallas board they are pilloring Garrett, he didn't make the right half time adjustments last week and got outcoached.
They are right of course, he coached much better when he had Romo, Dez, Mincey, Gregory, Hardy and a few others.
So Green Bay has the greatest QB of all time and they have one superbowl and we have two but they know what they are doing and we employ idiots.
It's not even funny, something nasty about it...the common man leading his life of "quiet desperation" tapping into his vast wealth of knowledge gained while a third stringer at Smallsville high some thirty years ago and second guessing the brilliant top of his professional , earning millions, assisted by data bases and tendency studies....full time professional.
It is an attraction of the sport, the second guess and hindsight empowering and enabling the frustrated, the sad and under-appreciated. For one moment, they count...even if only in their mind.
Over on the Dallas board they are pilloring Garrett, he didn't make the right half time adjustments last week and got outcoached.
They are right of course, he coached much better when he had Romo, Dez, Mincey, Gregory, Hardy and a few others.
So Green Bay has the greatest QB of all time and they have one superbowl and we have two but they know what they are doing and we employ idiots.
It's not even funny, something nasty about it...the common man leading his life of "quiet desperation" tapping into his vast wealth of knowledge gained while a third stringer at Smallsville high some thirty years ago and second guessing the brilliant top of his professional , earning millions, assisted by data bases and tendency studies....full time professional.
It is an attraction of the sport, the second guess and hindsight empowering and enabling the frustrated, the sad and under-appreciated. For one moment, they count...even if only in their mind.
Okay, now say that again, but this time in English please.
"cut him" "cap hit" ?
Victor Cruz is an important and inspiring player for NY Giants fans. I hope this is a minor setback for him and that he can get past his major injury to enjoy a long career as a Giant.
Oh, and don't be shocked if Tom announces that we're bringing back Preston Parker. Parker knows the system, he's better than anything out there (even with the drops) and Eli has stated he's confident having Parker out there.
If Cruz is going to be out for a while, I can see it happening, and soon.
The meltdown on BBI (should that happen) will be epic, of course...
Oh, and don't be shocked if Tom announces that we're bringing back Preston Parker. Parker knows the system, he's better than anything out there (even with the drops) and Eli has stated he's confident having Parker out there.
If Cruz is going to be out for a while, I can see it happening, and soon.
The meltdown on BBI (should that happen) will be epic, of course...
Can't we have Jones back instead?
Oh, and don't be shocked if Tom announces that we're bringing back Preston Parker. Parker knows the system, he's better than anything out there (even with the drops) and Eli has stated he's confident having Parker out there.
If Cruz is going to be out for a while, I can see it happening, and soon.
The meltdown on BBI (should that happen) will be epic, of course...
John, not doubting you but then what the Giants are doing makes ZERO sense. If they thought Cruz was really limited, why the heck would they go with four WR's last week? Now the training staff may have misjudged the status of his calf, but if there were long-term concerns here, then the moves they have made (or not made) don't make sense.
Did Jones have to clear waivers (I admit, I'm pretty ignorant about the waiver rules)? Did teams which finished ahead of the Packers get a crack at Jones before the Packers did when we cut him?
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Monday night as they showed the Green Bay box with the GM and all the other GB football brains and how they assembled the team. 90% or more of the roster made of draftees. I think I saw our guy in the back ground with a mop in his hand trying to learn at least something.
Can we please cut our losses and show this guy the door?? How many times are the masses here going to say, ok he screwed up but lets move on? James Jones should be the last straw from this guy who's lips move but says nothing meaningful.
The problem is they won't show JR the door. He needs to go but they just won't. I just don't think Mara has it in him. He better find the guts to make some tough decisions or else we are in for another run like the mid 90's.
Shitty thing is i get the feeling they all go together or stay, Reese's org is killing this team. Maybe its Ross and not Reese, but the talent we are drafting and acquiring is not working.
Here's what I said in my training camp report (first day of open camp) about Victor.
Coaches like TC really want to go to war with guys who they trust/feel comfortable with. Remember Bill Parcells talking about "his guys"? Tom's from that same coaching tree.
That's why I think he let Jones go...Jones was just a camp body, so that Eli would have someone to throw to while the walking wounded (Cruz/Randle) could heal.
Tom wanted to keep Parker, I think that was one of the harder cuts he had since he's been here.
I think the reason Parker had to be cut was that it was even more important to impress on the team that people who can't be trusted won't stick. That Tom was committed to winning, and was willing to make sacrifices to accomplish that goal.
That does not explain Donnell, but there's where being a starter saves him. If Larry was a third string TE, he's gone after the stunts he's pulled.
As far as 4 WR's (really 3, since Davis does not play)...well, he took a risk. Then again, he could always have gone 2 TE's if necessary.
I think they do, Eric, if you look at it from Tom's view. He expected Victor to be back by now. He expected Preston to be a reliable 4th WR. He didn't expect Rueben to be a no show the first 2 weeks.
None of that happened, of course, but the moves the team made were based on the above happening.
As far as Victor goes, I'm no expert, Eric, but I'm dammed if I know why what was obvious from 100 yards away at camp wasn't obvious when coaches who have see athletes for years on end can't see the same thing from 10 feet or less away.
Sometimes, you can't go by faith, or by your hopes and dreams, or by what the medical staff says; you have to go by your gut, what your "sixth sense" tells you, and what you see. I'd love to hear from the coaches here (Anish, Dorgan) or even ex players like B on this.
Coughlin has sounded legitimately confused about Cruz's calf situation for about a month (first week or two, calling it a strain, then simply saying "no change, no change" day after day). He also seemed annoyed/confused about Randle's tendinitis.
As a former WR coach and a guy who I still think loves to coach the position, he knows Davis wasn't ready. He also knows what he has in Harris.
The whole thing doesn't smell right to me. I can't put my finger on it. Your explanation is probably the most logical, but the decision-making behind it is suspect.
I hear he is doing well in Green Bay too...
Somebody seriously needs to be held accontable for such an egregious error in team / roster management. It's extremely poor decision making that needs to be corrected.