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| If you want to survive a biological attack, you might want to look into buying a Tesla. The company just officially unveiled the Model X, and Elon Musk shared a rather unexpected feature during the unveiling: a "bioweapon defense mode" button. "This is a real button," said Musk, who was all too ready to have to defend the existence of the outrageous feature. The button should come in handy "if there’s ever an apocalyptic scenario of some kind," he said. All you apparently have to do is push the button and the Model X's air filter — which is about 10 times larger than a normal car's air filter — should be able to keep you safe. |
It is the first electric vehicle with a 5,000-pound towing capacity.
One version of the crossover will be able to go 155 miles per hour and reach 60 mph in 3.2 seconds.
It will be able to travel 250 miles between charges.
The X comes standard with automatic emergency braking and side collision avoidance to prevent accidents.
Tesla Model X is an awesome way to spend $132,000 - ( New Window )
You press that button and 2 of these bad boys pop out from under the dash:
Setting up pants in the US, employing Americans,...
I expect, due to the torque from electric motors, that it will also be around 4 seconds or less 0 to 60.
Tesla:
- low maintenance (no oil changes, no scheduled maintenance, fewer moving parts, no internal combustion engine)
- safe (the batteries can be places low and spread out to help with impacts)
- fast
in the long run the $40,000 car will probably be equivalent to a $30,000 gas car in TCO.
still a lot of money, but in ten years they will be very price competitive.
The real game changer will be the Model 3. Should come in at around $35K. Once that happens things will never be the same in the automotive industry. Everyone is going to want one of these cars and it's going to force the entire industry to try and make something comparable - which is already happening.
Musk has always been upfront with Tesla's plan that the whole goal of the company was to make the Model 3 - the Roadster, Model S and Model X were all built almost solely to keep the company afloat and build interest/excitement until it could figure out how to make the Model 3 affordable.
The company loses money with every car sold. I seriously dpubt they have the capacaty to build an affordable car for the mass market and earn money with it at the same time. Great marketing though.
I guess you don't understand the concept of Contribution margin per unit
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How much does it cost again?
Setting up pants in the US, employing Americans,...
Toyota, Ford, GM, etc all build cars/trucks in the US for 1/3 of the price. I'm pretty sure those plants employ quite a few Americans...
The real game changer will be the Model 3. Should come in at around $35K. Once that happens things will never be the same in the automotive industry. Everyone is going to want one of these cars and it's going to force the entire industry to try and make something comparable - which is already happening.
Musk has always been upfront with Tesla's plan that the whole goal of the company was to make the Model 3 - the Roadster, Model S and Model X were all built almost solely to keep the company afloat and build interest/excitement until it could figure out how to make the Model 3 affordable.
There already are full electrics (Leaf, Volt - kind of) that are in the $35-40k range. In total, there were ~123k EVs sold in 2014 and we're on pace to see slightly fewer than that this year.
Assuming electric prices stay the same, what price point do you need gas to hit before you even see gas savings?
EVs - ( New Window )
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In comment 12517223 widmerseyebrow said:
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How much does it cost again?
Setting up pants in the US, employing Americans,...
Toyota, Ford, GM, etc all build cars/trucks in the US for 1/3 of the price. I'm pretty sure those plants employ quite a few Americans...
And people are normally happy with this...
And people are normally happy with this...
Who's not happy about Tesla creating a few American jobs? I think the initial poster took issue with the price their cars sell for...you know something few outside the 1% can afford.
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And people are normally happy with this...
Who's not happy about Tesla creating a few American jobs? I think the initial poster took issue with the price their cars sell for...you know something few outside the 1% can afford.
Oh, maybe. I didn't take it that way.
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but the true cost with all likely features will likely be around $100K. You also get a $7,500 federal tax rebate, and at least in NJ no sales tax. Not to mention added gas savings....(presuming gas doesn't stay at $1.75 gallon forever). It's still going to be really really expensive but in line with out luxury SUV's.
The real game changer will be the Model 3. Should come in at around $35K. Once that happens things will never be the same in the automotive industry. Everyone is going to want one of these cars and it's going to force the entire industry to try and make something comparable - which is already happening.
Musk has always been upfront with Tesla's plan that the whole goal of the company was to make the Model 3 - the Roadster, Model S and Model X were all built almost solely to keep the company afloat and build interest/excitement until it could figure out how to make the Model 3 affordable.
There already are full electrics (Leaf, Volt - kind of) that are in the $35-40k range. In total, there were ~123k EVs sold in 2014 and we're on pace to see slightly fewer than that this year.
Assuming electric prices stay the same, what price point do you need gas to hit before you even see gas savings? EVs - ( New Window )
The problem with the Leaf and the Volt is that their all electric range is so low that they don't appeal to the mass market. Leaf is 84 mi on battery and Volt is like 50 miles on battery alone. That's just not gonna work for the average American. Or more precisely, the average american won't settle for that limitation.
Tesla's high priced earlier models are allowing it to lead the market with battery and charging research. Like all bleeding edge tech, the early adopters pay a premium to offset the development costs. The Model 3 is the first mass market car and is supposed to be in the $35k range. That plus Musk said that he expects 1000km (~600 mile) ranges in two years (likely not on the model 3 though) are going to change the market.
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There already are full electrics (Leaf, Volt - kind of) that are in the $35-40k range. In total, there were ~123k EVs sold in 2014 and we're on pace to see slightly fewer than that this year.
Assuming electric prices stay the same, what price point do you need gas to hit before you even see gas savings? EVs - ( New Window )
Yes, but you can't compare those cars to what the Model 3 is likely to be (which is essentially a smaller version of the Model S). The leaf gets 80 miles max per charge (the Volt 38 miles w/o gas) - the Model 3 will get 250. The difference means that you can only use the Leaf for short commutes and you can use the Model 3 like you would any other car.
The quality difference between the Model 3 and current EV's will also be enormous. Like the difference between a Mercedes and a Toyota Corolla.
And if you follow the news almost every serious automaker is working on developing a car to compete with the Model 3. There is a reason Tesla's stock is so high - it's totally unjustified via its current revenue but investors realize that one the Model 3 is released the company is going to explode. Electric cars are absolutely the future of the auto industry and Tesla has a substantial head start on the competition.
The problem with the Leaf and the Volt is that their all electric range is so low that they don't appeal to the mass market. Leaf is 84 mi on battery and Volt is like 50 miles on battery alone. That's just not gonna work for the average American. Or more precisely, the average american won't settle for that limitation.
Tesla's high priced earlier models are allowing it to lead the market with battery and charging research. Like all bleeding edge tech, the early adopters pay a premium to offset the development costs. The Model 3 is the first mass market car and is supposed to be in the $35k range. That plus Musk said that he expects 1000km (~600 mile) ranges in two years (likely not on the model 3 though) are going to change the market.
I'll believe the $35k and 600 mile claims when I see them...
I could understand the range issue with the Leaf, but it should be a non-issue with the Volt seeing as it has a backup gas engine with essentially infinite range (after a 5 min pit stop). It's not like any of the Tesla vehicles are allowing cross-country trips without having to charge up and I imagine the SUV will see a pretty significant hit while towing. So if you have a cabin 2-3 hours away (150-200 miles), can you even tow your boat there for the weekend?
Until they can get recharging down into the 15-20 min range, I don't see mass adoption of full EVs.
You read that in a headline somewhere and thought you'd be smart by posting here but you really don't have a clue about what your are saying.
So what gives? Where did the $4,000 loss per vehicle narrative emerge from, and why has it spread like wildfire?As to the second point, it’s spread across the web because it makes for a tantalizing, albeit false, headline. As to the first point, the authors of the story simply looked at all of Tesla’s operating expenditures, including development costs, and spread it out across the volume of cars Tesla happened to sell during the quarter. In effect, the authors were examining the profitability of each Tesla through the prism of the company’s full gamut of operational expenditures. This makes absolutely no sense, but apparently makes for a rather clickable headline.
Following the Model X, Tesla’s ultimate plan is to release a mainstream electric car in the form of the Model 3. Indeed, much of the ‘cash burn’ the Reuters article mentions are investments Tesla is making in itself to facilitate growth and expanded operational activities down the line.
Tesla Model S Profits - ( New Window )
Anyway, could be new and different, perhaps it will grow on me, but I found myself and still do in more awe of the sedan.
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In comment 12517648 Tesla said:
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There already are full electrics (Leaf, Volt - kind of) that are in the $35-40k range. In total, there were ~123k EVs sold in 2014 and we're on pace to see slightly fewer than that this year.
Assuming electric prices stay the same, what price point do you need gas to hit before you even see gas savings? EVs - ( New Window )
Yes, but you can't compare those cars to what the Model 3 is likely to be (which is essentially a smaller version of the Model S). The leaf gets 80 miles max per charge (the Volt 38 miles w/o gas) - the Model 3 will get 250. The difference means that you can only use the Leaf for short commutes and you can use the Model 3 like you would any other car.
The quality difference between the Model 3 and current EV's will also be enormous. Like the difference between a Mercedes and a Toyota Corolla.
And if you follow the news almost every serious automaker is working on developing a car to compete with the Model 3. There is a reason Tesla's stock is so high - it's totally unjustified via its current revenue but investors realize that one the Model 3 is released the company is going to explode. Electric cars are absolutely the future of the auto industry and Tesla has a substantial head start on the competition.
I disagree that you can use the (theoretical) Model 3 "like you would any other car". A 250 mile range is nice, but I live 400 miles from Chicago (in MSP). That makes it a 2 day trip out there which kills any chance for a weekend visit. Ditto if I want to go up to Lutsen for a weekend (popular ski resort out here).
Eventually they'll solve the recharge issue (swappable batteries?), but I don't think we'll see mass adoption until then.
And again, while Tesla is doing some great stuff to lower the battery costs, I have a hard time seeing how they're going to get all these "luxury" items into a car and sell it at a Corolla price point.
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I'll believe the $35k and 600 mile claims when I see them...
I could understand the range issue with the Leaf, but it should be a non-issue with the Volt seeing as it has a backup gas engine with essentially infinite range (after a 5 min pit stop). It's not like any of the Tesla vehicles are allowing cross-country trips without having to charge up and I imagine the SUV will see a pretty significant hit while towing. So if you have a cabin 2-3 hours away (150-200 miles), can you even tow your boat there for the weekend?
Until they can get recharging down into the 15-20 min range, I don't see mass adoption of full EVs.
You can't compare the Volt because it's basically a hybrid - which is a huge difference from a full EV. Which means it has most of the disadvantages of a car with an ICE engine.
You really overestimate the limitations of the Tesla making long road trips. So long as your not headed off the main roads all you have to do it stop over 3 - 4 hours and take a bathroom break and maybe get a bit to eat. When you are done with that (around 30 mins) you come back to a fully charged car. Not really any different from a road trip with a gas car.
You might be right hat if you wanted to two a boat to your cabin 200 miles away you might have to stop to recharge for 20 min. - or if there are not charging stations around you can't do it. So that eliminates the market of people who like to tow their boats to cabins in remote areas 200 miles away. Pretty sure that's not going to make a big dent in the overall market.
The bottom line is you'll always be able to find some remote example of where having an EV wouldn't work in limited specific circumstances that don't have much of an impact in the overall market - which is not a rationale basis for arguing that these cars won't succeed.
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In comment 12517992 giants#1 said:
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In comment 12517648 Tesla said:
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I disagree that you can use the (theoretical) Model 3 "like you would any other car". A 250 mile range is nice, but I live 400 miles from Chicago (in MSP). That makes it a 2 day trip out there which kills any chance for a weekend visit. Ditto if I want to go up to Lutsen for a weekend (popular ski resort out here).
.
You don't understand how the supercharging stations work. All you'd have to do is stop once on your 400 mile trip to take a piss and grab a cup of coffee or a bit to eat at road stop with a Supercharger station (of which there would be plenty between MSP and CHI). Which you would do anyway even if you didn't have an electric car. So unless you are driving long trips in remote areas (with not superchargers around) it's nearly identical to driving a gas car.
You can't compare the Volt because it's basically a hybrid - which is a huge difference from a full EV. Which means it has most of the disadvantages of a car with an ICE engine.
You really overestimate the limitations of the Tesla making long road trips. So long as your not headed off the main roads all you have to do it stop over 3 - 4 hours and take a bathroom break and maybe get a bit to eat. When you are done with that (around 30 mins) you come back to a fully charged car. Not really any different from a road trip with a gas car.
3-4 hours is a huge chunk and an awfully long lunch. If you're on highways going 70 mph, that means for every 3-4 hours of driving you have to stop and wait 3-4 hours to charge your vehicle. Sorry but 30 min vs 3-4 hours is a huge difference. You're limited to 6-8 hours of driving per day instead of probably 10-12 hours.
You might be right hat if you wanted to two a boat to your cabin 200 miles away you might have to stop to recharge for 20 min. - or if there are not charging stations around you can't do it. So that eliminates the market of people who like to tow their boats to cabins in remote areas 200 miles away. Pretty sure that's not going to make a big dent in the overall market.
That's pretty much everyone in MN!
The bottom line is you'll always be able to find some remote example of where having an EV wouldn't work in limited specific circumstances that don't have much of an impact in the overall market - which is not a rationale basis for arguing that these cars won't succeed.
The issue is that whether people routinely do those things or not, many people like to think that one day they will (e.g. drive down to Disney) and thus they'll be hesitant to get a Tesla as anything more than a 2nd car.
Are you referring to me? Because I'd love to buy an electric vehicle.
Anyway, could be new and different, perhaps it will grow on me, but I found myself and still do in more awe of the sedan.
Well I think its more of a crossover then a full sized SUV. But in regards to the roof rack they did announce a trailer hitch that you could mount skis and bikes on:
Model X Tow hitch - ( New Window )
Musk defends receiving $4.9 billion in government support for Tesla, SolarCity and SpaceX - ( New Window )
You don't understand how the supercharging stations work. All you'd have to do is stop once on your 400 mile trip to take a piss and grab a cup of coffee or a bit to eat at road stop with a Supercharger station (of which there would be plenty between MSP and CHI). Which you would do anyway even if you didn't have an electric car. So unless you are driving long trips in remote areas (with not superchargers around) it's nearly identical to driving a gas car.
These supercharger stations recharge the entire range in 30 min? And I just went from MSP to CHI earlier this summer and don't recall seeing a single one.
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You don't understand how the supercharging stations work. All you'd have to do is stop once on your 400 mile trip to take a piss and grab a cup of coffee or a bit to eat at road stop with a Supercharger station (of which there would be plenty between MSP and CHI). Which you would do anyway even if you didn't have an electric car. So unless you are driving long trips in remote areas (with not superchargers around) it's nearly identical to driving a gas car.
These supercharger stations recharge the entire range in 30 min? And I just went from MSP to CHI earlier this summer and don't recall seeing a single one.
Supercharger stations are not independent stations. They are usually just a few boxes in a parking lot. if you weren't looking you probably wouldn't see them. The one near my house is in the parking lot of Barnes and Noble.
And a 30 minute pit stop would probably add around 200 miles to your battery.
Superchagers stations - ( New Window )
And a 30 minute pit stop would probably add around 200 miles to your battery. Superchagers stations - ( New Window )
The Eau Claire one is either: 1) brand new, 2) horrible signage, or 3) I'm blind (or some combo) because I stopped in that parking lot a few months ago and didn't see anything.
And it's only 170 miles of range after 30 min (per the link).
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In comment 12518007 schabadoo said:
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And people are normally happy with this...
Who's not happy about Tesla creating a few American jobs? I think the initial poster took issue with the price their cars sell for...you know something few outside the 1% can afford.
Oh, maybe. I didn't take it that way.
The price of the cars for one. A toy for the ultra rich isn't making a dent as far as the environment is concerned.
Has he made EVs "cool?" Sure, but I wonder if Musk's genius would now not be better spent on engineering practical EVs below the absurd super vehicle price line or, better yet, below the luxury price line. A mass produced vehicle would be less "cool" but would employ more people and really help the air quality of our cities.
To me, it's a black mark for EVs in general when the genius can't find a way to compete dollar for dollar with gas cars, even with billions in government subsidies. It tells me that we're a ways off from solving the battery problem.
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In comment 12518012 giants#1 said:
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In comment 12518007 schabadoo said:
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And people are normally happy with this...
Who's not happy about Tesla creating a few American jobs? I think the initial poster took issue with the price their cars sell for...you know something few outside the 1% can afford.
Oh, maybe. I didn't take it that way.
The price of the cars for one. A toy for the ultra rich isn't making a dent as far as the environment is concerned.
Has he made EVs "cool?" Sure, but I wonder if Musk's genius would now not be better spent on engineering practical EVs below the absurd super vehicle price line or, better yet, below the luxury price line. A mass produced vehicle would be less "cool" but would employ more people and really help the air quality of our cities.
To me, it's a black mark for EVs in general when the genius can't find a way to compete dollar for dollar with gas cars, even with billions in government subsidies. It tells me that we're a ways off from solving the battery problem.
The subsidies are such a canard. Gas and oil get half a trillion in government subsidies worldwide.
To me, it's a black mark for EVs in general when the genius can't find a way to compete dollar for dollar with gas cars, even with billions in government subsidies. It tells me that we're a ways off from solving the battery problem.
Have you not read what's been posted above? The whole point of Telsa as a company is to do precisely what you are bitching about - making a quality mass produced EV at a price to compete with gas cars - even without government subsidies.
Maybe they won't be able to do that but they've already gotten past the biggest hurdles to date (i.e. making a great electric car) - now it's primarily an issue with bringing the cost of the batteries down - which they hope to do by making the batters themselves at scale in their new Gigafactory in Nevada.
You can bet against that but I'd take a look at Musk's track record before doing so.