Eli on WFAN

Good play in that situation to your best guy. He almost came down with it, which would have made everything else moot.

My problem is them calling another pass play after that. And the reasoning as Eli explains it still doesn't make sense. So basically they're saying no time was coming off the clock so they'll call another play to further facilitate that? Huh?

we didn't kill any clock on the last play, so we figured why waste any clock on this play?
what the? sonofa. fordaluva.

...the priority should have become heavily weighted to do so. I don't like the second down check based off of the first plays results. These errors already cost us two wins this season. It's past time they were corrected.

but in that situation, regardless of what the defense is showing, the priority is the clock. We're not playing against the Bills at that point, we're playing against the clock.

in that situation and make sure you stay in bounds? Kick the FG and go up 3 scores with less than 4 minutes left. Make them eat their time outs.

It just blows my mind.

a thousand times out of a thousand. Some weird shit going on this season.

to have the mistake at least it didn't cost them a win and they can learn from it.

channel has opened my eyes. Most of these players/coaches aren't smart. They may no X and Os but they don't understand the clock and game management any better than the avid fan.

So then the question becomes where is the disconnect?

Sean Payton was lost at the end of regulation last night, too, and Tomlin had his share of blunders the other night. These are Super Bowl winning coaches. You can go chapter and verse on guys like Andy Reid and Mike McCarthy.

I wish he had said, "yeah, it was a mistake, the priority there is run the clock, force them to use some time outs and then go up by three scores with a FG".

Explaining why they did something stupid doesn't actually make me feel better about the fact that they did something so stupid. How these guys, Eli, TC McAdoo, et al, don't know what to do in this situation is completely unfathomable. These guys make millions of dollars coaching and playing professional football, they've already lost games this year with stupid clock management issues, and yet they persist in making these avoidable mistakes. Its bizarre.

By the way, the worst thing that could have happened is not an INT or even a last minute loss. The worst thing that could have happened is either Eli or OBJ get hurt running a completely unnecessary series of pass plays. Imagine the fall-out if Eli blow out his knee chasing down the DB that picked off his pass to RR? What if OBJ catches that needless TD and breaks his ankle in the process? Totally stupid. You run the ball, run the clock, kick the FG and get out of Buffalo with a well fought road win.

Well, if you're going
giantgiantfan : 5:27 pm : link : reply
to have the mistake at least it didn't cost them a win and they can learn from it.


If TC and Eli haven't learned it in the last 11 years, not to mention, the last three games, they are beyond learning time management....yet somehow, we are 2-2 and in first place

Do you do anything but run clock and take a 17 point lead.

Some people on here last night said:

Well whats the guarantee of the FG being made?
Do you know the odds of a fumble vs. an INT?
Why are we being so hard on them after a win?

I take my chances with a FG there 100 out of 100 times
How many fumbles have we seen out of the victory formation?
Why are we being hard on them? Because look at what damn nearly happened...they throw a TD pass to come within 1 score with plenty of time remaining....thankfully the chop block was called, but that heartache was totally unnecessary

Well, if you're going
giantgiantfan : 5:27 pm : link : reply
to have the mistake at least it didn't cost them a win and they can learn from it.


If TC and Eli haven't learned it in the last 11 years, not to mention, the last three games, they are beyond learning time management....yet somehow, we are 2-2 and in first place....go figure...

I crossed Queens Blvd on foot against traffic today, and I am still alive....should I do it again tomorrow?

than the fans on this thread.

In comment 12528305 MOOPS said:

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in that situation and make sure you stay in bounds? Kick the FG and go up 3 scores with less than 4 minutes left. Make them eat their time outs. It just blows my mind.

Old thinking. A 17 point lead with 3-4 minutes is not necessarily an ultra-safe lead when kickers can make 50+ FG.

Eli is right. If you are going to throw a pass on second down, you throw one on third and try and get the TD. If that didn't work, you kick your FG. The problem is that the pass got picked so there were no points at all.

meaningless. Giants won on the road by two scores, leading wire to wire to boot.

If you are still worried about that pick, I say let it go.

...yet dumbfounded they botched time management yet again after it has cost us two games already this season. They aren't mutually exclsuive.

In comment 12528344 NewBlue said:

Quote:

Do you do anything but run clock and take a 17 point lead. Some people on here last night said: Well whats the guarantee of the FG being made? Do you know the odds of a fumble vs. an INT? Why are we being so hard on them after a win? I take my chances with a FG there 100 out of 100 times How many fumbles have we seen out of the victory formation? Why are we being hard on them? Because look at what damn nearly happened...they throw a TD pass to come within 1 score with plenty of time remaining....thankfully the chop block was called, but that heartache was totally unnecessary

Obviously based on what occurred -- there are circumstances where you run plays that don't take enough time off of the clock -- so your initial statement -- and the premise of your statements are incorrect on their face.

I also don't agree with the premise of your statements

I can see circumstances where you do go for the TD -- and where it makes sense to go for the TD -- 1) as a means to fire up the troops -- 2) as an aggressive act to go for the win -- 3) because it made more sense to go for the TD than kick a field goal -- 4) because you felt there was a higher risk in being conservative at that point in time

the problem was with the execution of two of the plays on that drive -- 1) when Jennings was forced out of bounds instead of staying inbounds -- 2) when the pass was not completed and intercepted.

I for one had no problem with the play - and I also believe that had the play been executed and the Giants score a TD -- none of your tirades would have occurred -- which means you are merely second-guessing a sequence of events that occurred with a bad outcome --

So I say bull spit -- : )

disturbing as to the collective mindset of McAdoo, TC and Eli. 4 extra points (by scoring a TD vs FG) does absolutely nothing for you other than pad your fantasy stats.

3 straight runs up the gut. Stay in bounds, don't struggle trying to break tackles, let the clock run, kick the FG and start putting in the backups/reserves.

Any other choice is the wrong one...

In comment 12528388 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 12528344 NewBlue said: Quote: Do you do anything but run clock and take a 17 point lead. Some people on here last night said: Well whats the guarantee of the FG being made? Do you know the odds of a fumble vs. an INT? Why are we being so hard on them after a win? I take my chances with a FG there 100 out of 100 times How many fumbles have we seen out of the victory formation? Why are we being hard on them? Because look at what damn nearly happened...they throw a TD pass to come within 1 score with plenty of time remaining....thankfully the chop block was called, but that heartache was totally unnecessary Obviously based on what occurred -- there are circumstances where you run plays that don't take enough time off of the clock -- so your initial statement -- and the premise of your statements are incorrect on their face. I also don't agree with the premise of your statements I can see circumstances where you do go for the TD -- and where it makes sense to go for the TD -- 1) as a means to fire up the troops -- 2) as an aggressive act to go for the win -- 3) because it made more sense to go for the TD than kick a field goal -- 4) because you felt there was a higher risk in being conservative at that point in time the problem was with the execution of two of the plays on that drive -- 1) when Jennings was forced out of bounds instead of staying inbounds -- 2) when the pass was not completed and intercepted. I for one had no problem with the play - and I also believe that had the play been executed and the Giants score a TD -- none of your tirades would have occurred -- which means you are merely second-guessing a sequence of events that occurred with a bad outcome -- So I say bull spit -- : )

So isnt (and along taking time off the clock in the process and not stopping with an incomplete etc) putting a 3 on the board the same as seven? Both are putting you up by 3 score game. Take the better option based on the premise of clock runoff with the fg imho

be criticized despite the win for the play calling and the position it put the team/defense in.

In comment 12528343 Doomster said:

Quote:

Well, if you're going giantgiantfan : 5:27 pm : link : reply to have the mistake at least it didn't cost them a win and they can learn from it. If TC and Eli haven't learned it in the last 11 years, not to mention, the last three games, they are beyond learning time management....yet somehow, we are 2-2 and in first place

I'm speaking in the context of this game. I'm just happy about the win and that's where it ends for me.

Really a no-brainer

Lots of coaches makes decisions like this, whether fans agree or not. We often think when the Giants or Eli make a mistakes they are the only ones that do it. If you look around at other teams players, it happens all the time. Belicheck is known for making calls like that or questionable calls, but no one calls him senile when he does it. When it works he's a genius and when it doesn't he gets called for it.

...doesn't mean you should. That's the dumbest logic yet to attempt defending another in a series of poor time management episodes by our leaders on and off the field.

In comment 12528396 micky said:

Quote:

In comment 12528388 gidiefor said: Quote: In comment 12528344 NewBlue said: Quote: Do you do anything but run clock and take a 17 point lead. Some people on here last night said: Well whats the guarantee of the FG being made? Do you know the odds of a fumble vs. an INT? Why are we being so hard on them after a win? I take my chances with a FG there 100 out of 100 times How many fumbles have we seen out of the victory formation? Why are we being hard on them? Because look at what damn nearly happened...they throw a TD pass to come within 1 score with plenty of time remaining....thankfully the chop block was called, but that heartache was totally unnecessary Obviously based on what occurred -- there are circumstances where you run plays that don't take enough time off of the clock -- so your initial statement -- and the premise of your statements are incorrect on their face. I also don't agree with the premise of your statements I can see circumstances where you do go for the TD -- and where it makes sense to go for the TD -- 1) as a means to fire up the troops -- 2) as an aggressive act to go for the win -- 3) because it made more sense to go for the TD than kick a field goal -- 4) because you felt there was a higher risk in being conservative at that point in time the problem was with the execution of two of the plays on that drive -- 1) when Jennings was forced out of bounds instead of staying inbounds -- 2) when the pass was not completed and intercepted. I for one had no problem with the play - and I also believe that had the play been executed and the Giants score a TD -- none of your tirades would have occurred -- which means you are merely second-guessing a sequence of events that occurred with a bad outcome -- So I say bull spit -- : ) So isnt (and along taking time off the clock in the process and not stopping with an incomplete etc) putting a 3 on the board the same as seven? Both are putting you up by 3 score game. Take the better option based on the premise of clock runoff with the fg imho

No - taking a field goal is not the same as seven -- one puts you up by 2 touchdowns and a field goal and one puts you up by 3 touchdowns

the safest route is not the only path to take despite what a lot of BBIers are saying -- and these folks prior to this game were same ones telling everyone that this team had no talent, that this team had insufficient talent, that the season was over after game two -- and that there is no way the Giants would win against the Bills -- they were wrong then in every instance -- and they are wrong now -- the only difference being, in this case, it was a judgment call based on circumstances, and they are now second-guessing the judgment based on the results -- do you really believe these arguments would be happening if the result had been a TD? I highly doubt it -- and if that's the case then it's just a lot of hot air from a very sorry group of lungs -- that seems to need something to bite into after each and every game

third down play was baffling to say the least.
You would think with all the attention the time management issues have garnered they would do better there.

the philososphy was flawed. Going up three scores in that situation virtually guarantees victory. There is a significant increase to your chances of winning the game the instant you convert the FG. It was a mistake whether the play succeeded or not.

In comment 12528412 gidiefor said:

Quote:

No - taking a field goal is not the same as seven -- one puts you up by 2 touchdowns and a field goal and one puts you up by 3 touchdowns

It is the same number of possessions. And that is the only thing that matters when you have so little time on the clock.

In comment 12528383 HomerJones45 said:

Quote:

In comment 12528305 MOOPS said: Quote: in that situation and make sure you stay in bounds? Kick the FG and go up 3 scores with less than 4 minutes left. Make them eat their time outs. It just blows my mind. Old thinking. A 17 point lead with 3-4 minutes is not necessarily an ultra-safe lead when kickers can make 50+ FG. Eli is right. If you are going to throw a pass on second down, you throw one on third and try and get the TD. If that didn't work, you kick your FG. The problem is that the pass got picked so there were no points at all.

Don't confuse old thinking with common sense.

If you think this early season behavior is something new. Coughlin and Eli have Always been aggressive down the stretch in games. They were a bit more conservative in the mid 2000s with the better D talent and veteran OL but for the most part this team is very very aggressive. They don't sit on leads. They will pass when convention says to run.

It's how Coughlin rolls. It's not going to change so get used to it. The Dallas game or the ending was an anomaly but yesterday's game was not.

Go back through the years with Coughlin here and you will find yesterday's game was no different.

In comment 12528417 Torrag said:

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the philososphy was flawed. Going up three scores in that situation virtually guarantees victory. There is a significant increase to your chances of winning the game the instant you convert the FG. It was a mistake whether the play succeeded or not.

Torrag - that's a load of bull -- no way any of you moral compasses would be spouting this philosophical point had the Giants scored a TD

you're irrefutable logic really countered my points with that one. Take a bow.

its just better choices to winning football.

To me they are the epitome of high risk high reward. Everyone is packed in so tightly if there is a deflection there is a good chance it gets intercepted no to mention defenders jumping the route. In the last Super Bowl against the Pats Eli completed a mean slant to Cruz but then you have what happened to Seattle. I would have preferred a less risky throw.

Like that is

you want to run off time and score points. The Giants did neither because of mistakes by Jennings, Manning, and Randle (if you want to put it on him) and because of the coaching staff.

Who watching that pass get picked off didn't envision a pick 6 for a brief moment? You can ask "what if the pass to Randle was a TD for us?" But you can also ask "what if it was a pick 6?"

And, frankly, it was a brilliant play by Rasheed Jennings that may have saved that victory. If not for that, the interception and the whole red zone series would have been even more obviously egregious.

In comment 12528417 Torrag said:

Quote:

the philososphy was flawed. Going up three scores in that situation virtually guarantees victory. There is a significant increase to your chances of winning the game the instant you convert the FG. It was a mistake whether the play succeeded or not.

Hard to believe anyone can argue this point. 4 minutes to go up 14 and you take 15 seconds off the clock? The interception or a touchdown is totally irrelevant. 3 plays gets you down to 2 and a half minutes and no matter where you are on the field you have to like your chances against this team. The field goal would have been a bonus. Pretty sure that anyone with any football knowledge would agree with this even had the Giants scored a touchdown.

or maybe just come away with a convincing 31 point performance to instill confidence?

those are the only logical explanations i can see for the play calls.

lack of confidence in the coaching staff's decision-making...

a good W in a road game? And where we don't appreciate the win and think that we have to play perfectly, at every moment or else we should complain?

Agreed--I wish we were more like the Patr--oh, wait...

gave coughlin and macadoo confidence that we would hold them to under 14 pts in the last 4 mins and we had been hitting slants on them all day

probably was going for a kill shot with another TD pass. And Coughlin agreed after listening to Ryan bark all day and week.

appreciating the win and having concerns over yet another time management botch job aren't mutually exclusive. Try reading the thread before stating the obvious...again.

1st & goal at the 7, I believe, you do what the Seahawks failed to do in the Superbowl.

You run the freegin ball for a TD 3 times. If you get it in, great. If not, kick the easy FG.

he get's so wrapped up with what's in front of his face that he loses perspective over the bigger picture. As if he's focused so much on "taking what the defense gives you" that he forgets the setting. A forest for the trees kind of thing. It would explain many of his delays of game, ridiculous left-handed passes and red zone gaffes.

In comment 12528303 SHO'NUFF said:

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but in that situation, regardless of what the defense is showing, the priority is the clock. We're not playing against the Bills at that point, we're playing against the clock.

Ya for some reason, his gambles are not turning into big scores of late.

In comment 12528600 SwirlingEddie said:

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he get's so wrapped up with what's in front of his face that he loses perspective over the bigger picture. As if he's focused so much on "taking what the defense gives you" that he forgets the setting. A forest for the trees kind of thing. It would explain many of his delays of game, ridiculous left-handed passes and red zone gaffes.

Yup