Eli on WFAN

In comment 12528486 Reb8thVA said:

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To me they are the epitome of high risk high reward. Everyone is packed in so tightly if there is a deflection there is a good chance it gets intercepted no to mention defenders jumping the route. In the last Super Bowl against the Pats Eli completed a mean slant to Cruz but then you have what happened to Seattle. I would have preferred a less risky throw.

I know what you mean, but IMO it's more a Q of situation. For one with just 3 plays to W the SB, DONT run the high risk play 1st. Vs BUF I preferred 3 runs, don't hate an audibled 'safer pass' to a 1-on-1 OBJ in most cases on 2nd down. But you have to play smart on 3rd (Eli's comment abt 3rd is baffling). People defend the pass as 'playing to W' yet it actually gives the opponent their best chance to W vs finishing them off. Making sure you get 3 there is huge and there's almost no advantage to getting 7

with aggressive. I would have understood running all three downs too . It turns out Coughlin made the wrong decision. I personally don't think it was a bad decision but it turned out to be the wrong one. Yes there's a difference. I think they learned they can't go to the slant as often now. I think Reuben fights for the ball next time. Maybe he cuts in closer so the defender can't get there. Maybe Jennings stays in bounds next time. I think it was a good time to learn from their mistakes (non-division/conference game with a strong lead).

I believe most of the complainers here are talking out of hindsight. Not all but most. We score the touchdown and most would have said nothing. I'd bet some would say something along the lines of loving how they stayed aggressive. I still say Pats goes for it. Packers goes for it. Saints goes for it. Cowboys goes for it. On and on. I think they just went to the well too many times on that play (slant route) and got caught.

What I find frustrating is more people are bitching about clock management then there are enjoying the win. Coughlin has never been good with time management. I get it that people are upset about it but it's an over-reaction. No I don't think they had enough time to pull off a surprise win. Down 2 touchdowns with 4 minutes left. What are the odds there? What, we were burned before by the Eagles years ago. Every dog has it's day and this is not the same team. No it's not like the Cowboys game either. That game had a ton more bad decisions, drops, mistakes, etc and the game was much closer.

Enjoy the win for crying out loud. I don't think people see all the areas this team has improved on from last year:

Rushing Defense: Check
Offensive Line: Check
Turnover Ratio: Check
Aggressive Defense: Check
Less Interceptions by Eli: Check
Etc. Etc. Etc.

No really, think about it. I can go on. It's a long list. Are their some areas we are worse then last year? Sure (i.e. pass rush), but that's a much shorter list.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda, maybe, if, but .... Did any of that happen? 14 points down with 4 minutes left and all of what could have, may have, should have, blah blah blah, didn't freaking happen. Not even close. They didn't score ANYTHING. 4 minutes later, same score. Enjoy the damn UPSET WIN for F**K sake.

In comment 12528576 Torrag said:

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appreciating the win and having concerns over yet another time management botch job aren't mutually exclusive. Try reading the thread before stating the obvious...again.

i think that's a crock of shit. You're nothing more than a fan. If that play cost them the game then you have the right and probably obligation to whine and grouse about it. That play cost you emotionally because of the ultimate outcome. But they fucking won and I absolutely believe that fact is lost on nearly everyone. Yeah, *if* it was the wrong play then it's a learning experience for next time...*if* you are in position to do somethings not about it. But you're not. You're a fan. Enjoy the outcome....which btw, was a win.

And was intemperate.

In comment 12528407 Torrag said:

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...doesn't mean you should. That's the dumbest logic yet to attempt defending another in a series of poor time management episodes by our leaders on and off the field.

My post wasn't to defend the decision. The decision doesn't bother me like most. My point wasn't even directed at anyone specific. It was directed at BBI as a whole who continue to use hyperbole when discussing game decisions and play on the field. When Eli throws a pick or does something they deem stupid we throw out terms like rookie mistake or bonehead. When TC or any of the coaches make a decision we call them senile.

What I don't see is BBI evaluating other coaches and players the same way they do Giants coaches and players and that is what my post was about. I could go into more detail on my point, but its a much larger topic that doesn't have to do with this thread or this specific decision.

It's apples and Oranges...An INT ended the SB and it didn't end this game. You don't like the decision thats fine, but it is not the same as the SB.

name calling etc. Ashame.

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" The list of Fassel's late-game failures keeps growing: the Minnesota collapse in the playoffs his rookie year, the meltdown in San Francisco in the playoffs in January, the clock management/squib kick travesty against Dallas last month and now yesterday's 84-yard punt return by Philly's Brian Westbrook with 1:16 left to beat the Giants 14-10. Was it Fassel's fault Matt Bryant squibbed his kickoff out of bounds against the Cowboys with 11 seconds left? No. But Fassel should have drained more time off the clock before having Bryant kick the field goal. Was it his fault the usually reliable Jeff Feagles couldn't get either hang time to force a fair catch or sail the ball out of bounds on the ball Westbrook returned? No. But it's all come under his watch and when you're the head coach making nearly $3 million per year, you are accountable for every aspect of the team. The Giants have lost two games this year that were nearly impossible to lose. Bruce Read is his third special teams coach. And the special teams still drag the team down, already costing games against the Cowboys and Eagles. As much as Fassel's teams have been resilient down the stretch, they are even better known now for losing games that defy logic. The Minnesota and San Francisco embarrassments ended seasons. The loss to the Eagles may have unofficially ended another one. One month short of the 25-year anniversary of the Giants' famous "Fumble" loss to the Eagles - Herm Edwards scored the winning TD - the players were just as stunned as their ancestors. "I think we're shell-shocked," Kerry Collins said. Collins' fumble on a third-and-goal at the Eagles' 5 with 7:50 left took points off the board. But when Fassel forced the Eagles to use their last timeout with 1:34 left and the ball on the Philly 46, the game appeared over as Feagles came on to punt. Feagles, the best directional punter in the NFL, wanted to kick the ball out of bounds. At the very least, punt it high enough to get a fair catch. Then the Eagles, down 10-7, would have to go a long way to get a field goal against the wind with no timeouts and with quarterback Donovan McNabb, playing with a bruised thumb, having a brutal day with only nine completions, just one of them to a wide receiver. "I'm a 16-year veteran," Feagles said. "In that situation, I know what to do.

We used to have clock management coaches on staff. I think one was forced on Fassel. I seem to remember He Who Must Not Be Named was a clock management coach for Parcells.

These lessons were bought and paid for a loooooong time ago using other people's money which is the best kind, yet we continue to pay for it today. This is not some secret code. So obviously something happens down on that field that causes otherwise bright men to become buffoons.

That's what's unfathomable.
Link - ( New Window )

we all thought its going to be a pick six. Then we saw Eli attempting to tackle him and another moment of anguish. The runback ended another 20 or so yards later but for a second we all thought about the ensuing On Side Kick and out butter finger Randle flubbing another one.

Alls swell that ends well but lets not push our luck.

In comment 12528444 gidiefor said:

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In comment 12528417 Torrag said: Quote: the philososphy was flawed. Going up three scores in that situation virtually guarantees victory. There is a significant increase to your chances of winning the game the instant you convert the FG. It was a mistake whether the play succeeded or not. Torrag - that's a load of bull -- no way any of you moral compasses would be spouting this philosophical point had the Giants scored a TD

or if the ball hadn't been picked and we got a FG anyway.

I guess "time management" is the new buzzword we've picked up from the sporting press to allow fans to exercise their 20-20 hindsight.

In comment 12528749 USAF NYG Fan said:

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with aggressive. I would have understood running all three downs too . It turns out Coughlin made the wrong decision. I personally don't think it was a bad decision but it turned out to be the wrong one. Yes there's a difference. I think they learned they can't go to the slant as often now. I think Reuben fights for the ball next time. Maybe he cuts in closer so the defender can't get there. Maybe Jennings stays in bounds next time. I think it was a good time to learn from their mistakes (non-division/conference game with a strong lead). I believe most of the complainers here are talking out of hindsight. Not all but most. We score the touchdown and most would have said nothing. I'd bet some would say something along the lines of loving how they stayed aggressive. I still say Pats goes for it. Packers goes for it. Saints goes for it. Cowboys goes for it. On and on. I think they just went to the well too many times on that play (slant route) and got caught. What I find frustrating is more people are bitching about clock management then there are enjoying the win. Coughlin has never been good with time management. I get it that people are upset about it but it's an over-reaction. No I don't think they had enough time to pull off a surprise win. Down 2 touchdowns with 4 minutes left. What are the odds there? What, we were burned before by the Eagles years ago. Every dog has it's day and this is not the same team. No it's not like the Cowboys game either. That game had a ton more bad decisions, drops, mistakes, etc and the game was much closer. Enjoy the win for crying out loud. I don't think people see all the areas this team has improved on from last year: Rushing Defense: Check Offensive Line: Check Turnover Ratio: Check Aggressive Defense: Check Less Interceptions by Eli: Check Etc. Etc. Etc. No really, think about it. I can go on. It's a long list. Are their some areas we are worse then last year? Sure (i.e. pass rush), but that's a much shorter list. Coulda, woulda, shoulda, maybe, if, but .... Did any of that happen? 14 points down with 4 minutes left and all of what could have, may have, should have, blah blah blah, didn't freaking happen. Not even close. They didn't score ANYTHING. 4 minutes later, same score. Enjoy the damn UPSET WIN for F**K sake.

Another guy who knows what we are thinking. And not only does he know what we are thinking he knows what the best coaches in football are thinking too. Congrats on the win to all you super Giant fans while those of us who understand the game know that nothing happened this time, but it has happened in the past and will happen again. Not asking for perfect but staying in bounds at the end of a game when you have the lead is football 101. I am pretty sure every fan realized that at the moment it happened.

He wanted the offense to show him something!

Let's not forget that this offense is still a work in progress and by no means has it hit on all cylinders yet.

With the defense playing so well against the run, and beginning to get more healthy...and the young DL getting support from the back 7...I gotta believe that TC's thinking that once he gets a consistent contribution from the offense (scoring TD's not FG's) that they are really going to have a squad to be reckoned with.

The Cowflies and Shegals are ripe for the taking right now. I can see why he would have a sense of urgency to get this offense on track and running on all cylinders.

There's a reason why I bitched about this even after a win: Because they've already pissed away one very important game due to clock mismanagement and I damn well don't want to see it happen again. And yet Coughlin/McAdoo/Eli have clearly shown they haven't learned from their mistakes, and my biggest fear is that they're going to again snatch defeat from what should be a very well-deserved victory, which they tried to do vs. the Bills.

What they did Sunday flies in the face of all logic and common sense. It's so simple, really.

1. With under 4 minutes left, there's no difference between a 17-point lead and a 21-point lead, since it's highly unlikely the Bills will have more three possessions.

2. Run, run, run accomplishes one of three things, all positive: It takes the clock down to under 3 minutes; it makes the Bills use all of their timeouts; it results in a combination of running time off and burning Bills timeouts.

3. There's only one negative that can happen on a run play: a fumble. There are several negatives that can happen on a pass: sack and fumble, catch (short of goal line) and fumble, interception, all of which have the potential to be returned for a touchdown.

And for god's sake, the field goal would have been close to the equivalent of the old extra point, which the NFL deemed too automatic. It's also possible that the Giants would have scored a touchdown on one of the three runs.