What are your thoughts and opinions of JPP coming back? When I heard what happened I wanted him off the team. Then, when you think about it, the best move was waiting. It isn't like we could have spent his money on other FAs.
Now, I feel like I am selling my soul to the devil. I am curious to see what type of player he can be and what type of lift he can give this defense.
I have always had faith in Spags. I had a ton of faith in Moore and Odi. I thought Hankins would continue to improve. I really liked the Selvie signing. Our D is not perfect. We have weaknesses but they have also given us a chance to win every week we step out on the field. The crucial element we are missing is a pass rush. I dont think one player will magically turn this into a 2007 or 2008 D but it will help. It is like having a bunch of #3 starting pitchers in baseball. If you don't have a #1 then your staff is weak. If you have a number 1 then the dominos start to fall into place.
On a side note, I wonder what would be more valuable, a pass rusher or another cover guy. The reason I say this is that DRC has been banged up. We have a rookie at safety. Hosley has been playing better on the outside. If we had that extra cover guy then I can see Spags dialing up some better pressures. Right now I think he is still playing it somewhat safe to protect his secondary. It is an interesting thought.
So, back to the opening question, what are your thoughts and opinions on him returning?
Look, if he can help us make the playoffs this year and give us a 3rd down surge then sign him.
Problem is, who do you cut on the DL or elsewhere to fit him in the lineup?
Finally, the guy missed all of camp and may not be any good even as a pass rusher right now. I'm not sure and I don't think anyone will know until he begins practicing.
JPP comes back as a "changed man", works his *ss off and while not his "old self" is an effective full time run and pass rush contributor. Resigns with the Giants for a reduced, yet fair salary in 2016 and beyond.
What Will Likely Happen:
JPP shows up late in the season after an ugly battle among the Giants, the NFLPA, the league and the courts relative to his ability to play. JPP "mails it in", gets one final set of paychecks from the Giants. Giants cut him after 2016 seaons. He plays a reduced role for a few teams for a couple of years and is out of football soon after.
What Could Happen:
JPP is a maimed man incapable of playing professional football in a remotely effective way. The Giants prevail in showing he had Non Football Injuries and owe him nothing. A bitter JPP gets on social media to trash the Giants. He signs with either the Cowboys, Raiders or Ravens for 2016 and gets cut in training camp.
JPP comes back as a "changed man", works his *ss off and while not his "old self" is an effective full time run and pass rush contributor. Resigns with the Giants for a reduced, yet fair salary in 2016 and beyond.
What Will Likely Happen:
JPP shows up late in the season after an ugly battle among the Giants, the NFLPA, the league and the courts relative to his ability to play. JPP "mails it in", gets one final set of paychecks from the Giants. Giants cut him after 2015 season. He plays a reduced role for a few teams for a couple of years and is out of football soon after.
What Could Happen:
JPP is a maimed man incapable of playing professional football in a remotely effective way. The Giants prevail in showing he had Non Football Injuries and owe him nothing. A bitter JPP gets on social media to trash the Giants. He signs with either the Cowboys, Raiders or Ravens for 2016 and gets cut in training camp.
Goes through painful recovery process
Rejoins team
Struggles with reaching his previous production
Learns to overcome his disability
Makes key plays in the playoffs
Leads team to Super Bowl win over previously unbeaten Patriots :)
2. He would cost an enormous amount of cap space per appearance. This is cap space that could be used to sign or restructure our own players (Amukamara comes to mind) or possibly pay a player we trade for before the deadline. At worst it's $15 million towards the 2016 roster.
3. Reps spent on him are better spent on promising players like Wynn and Odi.
I'll just repeat my first post on the issue because it was right then and it's right now:
Go Terps : 7/5/2015 5:51 pm : link
So he exceeded my already low expectations for him.
In the long term this is good for the Giants. It saves them from potentially doing something very stupid.
The stupidity was clear the day he threw Prince in the tub. Might as well have started a countdown clock to stupidity then.
IMO, There is no way he will be able contribute and be competitive this season.
He's not coming back until 2016
Giants don't like what they see and cut bait, allowing him to sign with another team
Have the Giants throw him a few bucks.
Then have him evaluated every 6 weeks and hopefully sign a very reasonable 1 year prove it deal.
Robbie: Not having Ayers hurts and him back will help. ANy word on his return?
Giants don't like what they see and cut bait, allowing him to sign with another team. He is mildly effective and fans are pissed.
Giants don't like what they see and cut bait, allowing him to sign with another team. He is mildly effective and fans are pissed.
He's not going to take less than the tender and he shouldn't. Giants are contractually obligated to pay him that amount or rescind the tag.
You probably realize this but the comp pick is not automatic. First thing is you have to lose more free agents that are signed than those free agents you sign. Then salary of the incoming and outgoing free agents need to be taken into account. There are probably other things that I don't remember.
Or better than being placed on nfi
I think if the Giants put JPP on the NFI now he is done for the season
He's been working out since before September. Giants will give him a physical. You don't need to worry about his muscle mass.
Doubt Carter has met JPP in recent weeks, but know he is paid to talk about stuff based on conjecture. And fill up air time.
Anyone who thinks the Giants haven't handled this perfectly plainly doesn't understand negotiations or just wants it to go badly to prove their emotionally driven previous reactions.
Quote:
If they feel he isn't going to be effective the CBA gives them leave to put him on the NFI(non football injury) list. Which is where they are likely headed. It also allows for both sides to negotiate an entirely separate deal and scarp the franchise tender entirely if they so choose.
I think if the Giants put JPP on the NFI now he is done for the season
Right.
Anyone who thinks the Giants haven't handled this perfectly plainly doesn't understand negotiations or just wants it to go badly to prove their emotionally driven previous reactions.
Spot on.
If he's not medically cleared they'll nfi him and his season us officially over. They can then negotiated the settlement details later.
It's in Giants favor the longer he does not sign the tender. It means he agrees that he's not ready to play.
That's one of the reasons that when he is ready to play I think the Giants will let him.
If he was close and his team thought they could win a grievance, they would be in NY right now with the NFLPA. If he's close next time around, he'll be on the roster.
Everyone in the building wants him back.
People here don't like him because of the money. If you read comments, most people here don't like any contract a player has signed for
Last year he played against 3 of the 4 teams they have played thus far. He got the better of Smith, he dominated T. Williams and he was the reason they beat Atlanta. This year, there has not been a sniff of pressure. He made the DL better. Look at Hankins pass rush without JPP - non existent
if he can come back and be a situational pass rusher later in the year it would be huge.
He recorded 65 tackles, 16.5 sacks, 1 safety, and 2 forced fumbles during the 2011 season. On December 11, 2011, after already compiling two sacks (one for a safety) and a forced fumble, Pierre-Paul blocked Dan Bailey's 47-yard field goal attempt in the final seconds of the Giants' game against the Dallas Cowboys, and the Giants won 37–34. Pierre-Paul became the first player in NFL history to record a sack, forced fumble, and blocked field goal in the same game. On December 13, 2011, he was named the NFC Defensive Player of the Week. On December 27, 2011 it was announced that Pierre-Paul was voted to his first Pro Bowl, despite not being on the ballot.
He played a big role in the Giants playoff run where they competed against the New England Patriots in Super Bowl XLVI and won 21-17.
Of course, at the same time this regime needs to make better decisions when spending in UFA. But, more likely JPP's replacement arrives via the draft next Spring.
People here don't like him because of the money. If you read comments, most people here don't like any contract a player has signed for
Last year he played against 3 of the 4 teams they have played thus far. He got the better of Smith, he dominated T. Williams and he was the reason they beat Atlanta. This year, there has not been a sniff of pressure. He made the DL better. Look at Hankins pass rush without JPP - non existent
if he can come back and be a situational pass rusher later in the year it would be huge.
good post
That's not the realist in you. That's just spite.
If you're a Giants fan, you should want him to come back and tear it up. We should ALL WANT that. Whether you think that will happen or not is totally different.
2011 was great but Nastalgia is in the rear view mirror people.
Wynn? Our best run defending end and cheap as hell. Selvie? He is setting the edge and getting some pressure. Odigizuwa? We just drafted him and hopefully he will get better with opportunies.
I wouldn't let a mangled JPP take any snaps away from them until he is 100% healthy which won't be until next season and that may be to late.
It's not spite, it's reality.
Quote:
Right now with 8.5 fingers he is the best pass rusher they have.
People here don't like him because of the money. If you read comments, most people here don't like any contract a player has signed for
Last year he played against 3 of the 4 teams they have played thus far. He got the better of Smith, he dominated T. Williams and he was the reason they beat Atlanta. This year, there has not been a sniff of pressure. He made the DL better. Look at Hankins pass rush without JPP - non existent
if he can come back and be a situational pass rusher later in the year it would be huge.
good post
If the team has a shot I'd be thrilled to see him return.
I was excited to see Odi this week. He did a few good things but his pass rush was awful. He was an easy guy to handle by the OT. He had no problems with Odi in one on ones. Odi did nothing. No outside rush. No bull rush. Nothing inside.
Wynn? Our best run defending end and cheap as hell. Selvie? He is setting the edge and getting some pressure. Odigizuwa? We just drafted him and hopefully he will get better with opportunies.
I wouldn't let a mangled JPP take any snaps away from them until he is 100% healthy which won't be until next season and that may be to late.
It's not spite, it's reality.
That's a good point about the roster. But they don't need the roster spot right now and usually/unfortunately these things have a way of working themselves out.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with spite. I would love o be proven wrong. I would love for JPP to come out in his first game and get one pressure, I would happy with that. But not at $870,000.00 because I don't think he will produce at a level that equates to that payday. We have 5 DE's right now without JPP, who do you cut? Ayers is hurt but he is currently our best 2 way DE and has 1 sack. Moore? He is probably our best pass rusher and is very young.
Wynn? Our best run defending end and cheap as hell. Selvie? He is setting the edge and getting some pressure. Odigizuwa? We just drafted him and hopefully he will get better with opportunies.
I wouldn't let a mangled JPP take any snaps away from them until he is 100% healthy which won't be until next season and that may be to late.
It's not spite, it's reality.
That's a good point about the roster. But they don't need the roster spot right now and usually/unfortunately these things have a way of working themselves out.
They get to decide if they want to keep him for 2016, and they're already saving the money as is.
Who needs a guy for the last four games that is out of shape, rusty, hardly knows the plays, and has one hand and one claw and a history of childish behavior? Why upset the apple cart. We don't need another second or third string DE.
Pull the tender.
But the truth is, you have no idea as to who JPP is *right now* or who he will be even when he gets into shape. Cut off your own hand and see how well you do in your usual physical tasks and let us know how you compare to your full-bodied neighbor.
Maybe he is better; maybe you don't actually need a hand to play in the NFL. But, lets see some proof before making absolutes. And, try not to use JPP as a a surrogate for commentary on our current pass rush capability.
Ideally, you want to see how he does with his new hand, this year, before you sign him to a long term deal.
I'm one who thinks he still has a long term career. It's his short term prognosis that is in question.
If his hand is healed, and he can train, compromise with him and give him a few bucks for getting into shape. He's not going to be top notch physical shape (but neither is Beatty, who likely has lost a lot of upper body strength, but we're all ready to welcome him back), and he's not going to be the JPP of last year. but if he can contribute, welcome back.
If he's hopeless for this year, the Giants will yank the tender or win a grievance.
I'd prefer not to spend the money, but IF he can contribute, the division is wide open to win. Only an idiot would not welcome back someone who can help you there.
It's ludicrous. It'll take him a month, minimum, to get back into anything resembling reasonable football game shape.
If he had it wrapped as a club he's better than anything we have at DE.
If the team has a shot I'd be thrilled to see him return.
What we should be saying is "I hope he comes back strong and can contribute" but everyone is talking in absolutes which is just silly.
Isn't he already working out? If the hand gets better and he can work out even more over the next few weeks will he increase his workload and workout more?
This guy is a premier athlete. A natural. He didn't miss 2 years or even 6 months of working out.
I am of the current opinion that JPP's comeback begins with the 2016 pre-season.
Isn't he already working out? If the hand gets better and he can work out even more over the next few weeks will he increase his workload and workout more?
This guy is a premier athlete. A natural. He didn't miss 2 years or even 6 months of working out.
He hasn't lined up against any opponent since Dec. 28 2014. He didn't go to OTAs or mini camp. Which means he hasn't done anything football related in more than 9 months. Working out on his own isn't going to prepare him to battle with offensive tackles.
Remember he first just damaged the hand. Then - well, maybe a finger was amputated. Then, the thumb might have been hurt.
Latest info is the index finger is gone. The thumb was partially amputated. The middle finger may actually be damaged as well, plus significant skin grafts. Add in not being anywhere close to game shape.
Yet, some people have no problem saying he'd immediately be our best DE? Just throw a club over the stump!
I am of the current opinion that JPP's comeback begins with the 2016 pre-season.
Thank you. It never fails to amaze me how much contempt some "fans" have for the players on their team. The ridicule and lousy jokes I've read here give me doubts about some people's maturity level. No one has a clue when, if and how well he can still play. I don't understand how anyone could have any sentiment other than what you just expressed.
Remember he first just damaged the hand. Then - well, maybe a finger was amputated. Then, the thumb might have been hurt.
Latest info is the index finger is gone. The thumb was partially amputated. The middle finger may actually be damaged as well, plus significant skin grafts. Add in not being anywhere close to game shape.
Yet, some people have no problem saying he'd immediately be our best DE? Just throw a club over the stump!
Don't be so sure. Wynn has played well, Odi just got his feet wet, and Ayers hasn't played yet.
BTW, does the confirmed fingers blown off make JPP the Mordecai Brown of DEs?
Wynn? He hasn't shown anything as a pass rusher.
If the team is in position to make the playoffs I would love to see JPP on the field the last month of the season. That's 2 months from now. If he gets in shape he would help even if he has to have his entire hand wrapped.
Wynn? He hasn't shown anything as a pass rusher.
If the team is in position to make the playoffs I would love to see JPP on the field the last month of the season. That's 2 months from now. If he gets in shape he would help even if he has to have his entire hand wrapped.
You are talking about a JPP with a maimed, skin grafted hand, who as Cris Carter pointed out, is weakened and atrophied, at least 20 lbs, perhaps more, under his playing weight. There is no way one can lift weights with skin grafts on the hand. The grafts will tear. Even if he could overcome all that in just 8 weeks, he will still have to learn how to play with one hand. And learn a new defense on the fly. Don't act like he is going to walk on the field and immediately be their best DE. That's just stupid. It would be a miracle if he just were able to practice byt seasons end.
I am of the current opinion that JPP's comeback begins with the 2016 pre-season.
I'm in general agreement with your take. I hope he gets a chance to at least prove he can play.
It's been 3 months. He can't lift.
Quote:
After 6-8 weeks?
It's been 3 months. He can't lift.
It isn't the case with JPP, but for every week of bed rest, it takes 3.5 weeks of rehab to recover the atrophy or muscle mass lost.
uh, if you go back to those you might remember that I have a lot of knowledge about skin grafts, more than I would care to because a friends child was severely burned and I learned alot about it from him. Stretching and pushing abnormal movements can be catastrophic to a graft patient. Secondly, we now know that he has the index finger including the base knuckle removed, and parts of 2 other fingers as well. That's a great grip for holding 250 lbs above your throat. We've also seen that the hand is completely wrapped, so don't fucking tell me I''m talking out my ass when if anybody is it's YOU. Thirdly, if you think that anyone here is wishing permanent injury on anyone else you're bigger idiot than I initially thought.