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Monday Night Football Lions At Seahawks Discussion Thread

Trainmaster : 10/5/2015 7:53 pm
I didn't see another thread. I'll delete if a duplicate.

The Lions are going nowhere, so I hope they knock off the Seahawks. Very unlikely. The Lions seem to be a mess as the 49ers and Dolphins are.
Yeah, the Lions lost  
section125 : 10/5/2015 8:10 pm : link
Suh. How do expect them to compete.
have a feeling the lions stick around long enough to make it a game  
Tuckrule : 10/5/2015 8:28 pm : link
seahwaks 24-14
Will be interested to see how the SEA O-Line plays  
Sy'56 : 10/5/2015 8:31 pm : link
They have been pretty bad so far to be blunt. DET has a couple of solid pieces along the line so if there is one thing that could keep them in it, there it is.

Calvin Johnson vs Richard Sherman is a great matchhup to keep an eye on as well.

End of the day the SEA defense will be too suffocating for Stafford to handle but I think it could be a close one.
Seashawk fans are really excited  
B in ALB : 10/5/2015 8:31 pm : link
about a member of their non playoff baseball team raising their flag. That was odd.
I'd love for the giants to see seattle in the NFCCG  
Giants4246 : 10/5/2015 8:32 pm : link
in seattle, and absolutely kick the shit out of them 2011 GB style.
Not for nothing but damn  
bubba0825 : 10/5/2015 8:43 pm : link
Seattles oline is mugging the lions. Flagrant holding on back to back Russel scrambles
RE: Not for nothing but damn  
Giants4246 : 10/5/2015 8:43 pm : link
In comment 12528641 bubba0825 said:
Quote:
Seattles oline is mugging the lions. Flagrant holding on back to back Russel scrambles


Yea it was so obvious except to the refs.
I Haven't Heard Anything, But I'm Wondering  
Trainmaster : 10/5/2015 8:49 pm : link
how long a leash does Caldwell have?

Philbin's Miami team looked terrible. I doubt Caldwell is gone if they go 0-4. The Lions host the Cardinals (putting them likely at 0-5) before they host the Bears and Vikings.

RE: Not for nothing but damn  
illmatic : 10/5/2015 8:50 pm : link
In comment 12528641 bubba0825 said:
Quote:
Seattles oline is mugging the lions. Flagrant holding on back to back Russel scrambles


I was about to say the same. They were holding before that too. Guess they aren't calling that on Seattle tonight.
WOW RUSSEL WILSON!  
glowrider : 10/5/2015 9:09 pm : link
Holy shit, what a pair of plays
Seattle O Line stinks and they traded their linemen  
Mason : 10/5/2015 9:13 pm : link
Wilson had to basically block for himself on those plays.
and my fantasy chances for this week are done  
jgambrosio : 10/5/2015 9:32 pm : link
Rawls losing carries to Jackson and Ebron likely done
RE: WOW RUSSEL WILSON!  
BillT : 10/5/2015 9:35 pm : link
In comment 12528685 glowrider said:
Quote:
Holy shit, what a pair of plays

Took the words right out of my mouth. Wilson always impresses. He's got quite a skill set.
I wonder at what point will QBs learn that it may not be wise  
Mason : 10/5/2015 9:40 pm : link
to take so much money so the team can't use resources to upgrade or maintain their OL.
My First Sticky!  
Trainmaster : 10/5/2015 9:41 pm : link
Rooting against Seattle in the chance the Giants end up needing a tie breaker as division winner or wild card. The Lions are very likely not going anywhere.
RE: I Haven't Heard Anything, But I'm Wondering  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 10:11 pm : link
In comment 12528651 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
how long a leash does Caldwell have?

Philbin's Miami team looked terrible. I doubt Caldwell is gone if they go 0-4. The Lions host the Cardinals (putting them likely at 0-5) before they host the Bears and Vikings.

Caldwell stinks as a coach.
He stinks?  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 10:14 pm : link
Based on what evaluation?
Based on the deplorable mistakes he made as Colts coach  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 10:19 pm : link
and his inability to field a productive Lions team.
Stafford is fucking brutal  
bigbluehoya : 10/5/2015 10:23 pm : link
surprised we haven't seen Detroit hit a quick screen to one of the slot WRs. Seattle has rarely shown any man coverage on the slot WRs even when they've been in trips.

They need to come up with something on 1st and 2nd down to chip away at the chains. These 3rd and 8+ are brutal against this D.
Stafford  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 10:25 pm : link
Is leaving a lot of plays on the field
I never liked Pete Carroll  
Vanzetti : 10/5/2015 10:26 pm : link
but you have to hand it to him. 24 undrafted free agents on his SB roster of 53? That's amazing.

One dumb play away from 2 SBs in a row.
I dont see  
Glover : 10/5/2015 10:32 pm : link
an ineffective Lions team, I see the Seahawks allowing NOTHING. They are so good at home.
Swarming.
Bungle  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 10:44 pm : link
Wouldn't you call last year's team productive?
RE: Bungle  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 10:48 pm : link
In comment 12528802 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
Wouldn't you call last year's team productive?

You're allowed to think he's a great coach.

I don't. I think he's a lousy head coach.
RE: I wonder at what point will QBs learn that it may not be wise  
schabadoo : 10/5/2015 10:50 pm : link
In comment 12528727 Mason said:
Quote:
to take so much money so the team can't use resources to upgrade or maintain their OL.


Unless you marry a supermodel, I don't see how you leave money on the table. QBs careers average four years.

Both these Olines look bad.
I didn't say he was great  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 10:51 pm : link
I just found your comment puzzling, not s big deal.
Russell Wilson  
santacruzom : 10/5/2015 10:51 pm : link
Is one of those guys whose critics vanish for long stretches as he plays well, then reappear very loudly and boast of how they always knew he was overrated and gimmicky when he posts the obligatory bad game or two.
That's the difference tonight  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 10:53 pm : link
Wilson > Stafford
Stafford is over rated. Nice had a few good fantasy  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/5/2015 10:54 pm : link
Football years. Doesn't make him a really great QB. Caldwell is the really over rated guy. He basically pretended he was Payton's OC. I'm sure he's a nice guy and knowledgable but right place right time.
Nice!  
timintey : 10/5/2015 10:54 pm : link
Big play
That wasn't what SEA had in mind  
Mad Mike : 10/5/2015 10:55 pm : link
*
RE: Russell Wilson  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 10:55 pm : link
In comment 12528813 santacruzom said:
Quote:
Is one of those guys whose critics vanish for long stretches as he plays well, then reappear very loudly and boast of how they always knew he was overrated and gimmicky when he posts the obligatory bad game or two.


You mean these two fumbles he has lost that have changed the course of the game?
So here's the question....  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 10:57 pm : link
if Seattle goes 3 and out here. Detroit scores the GW TD. Did Wilson single handily lose them the game?
Speaking of over rated  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/5/2015 10:57 pm : link
Wilson looking less that awesome without Lynch tonight
Dep  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 10:58 pm : link
You don't believe Wilson is playing good football other than the fumbles, one where he had no chance. BTW, this has nothing to do with Eli.
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:00 pm : link
In comment 12528828 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
You don't believe Wilson is playing good football other than the fumbles, one where he had no chance. BTW, this has nothing to do with Eli.


Of course it does. 10 point lead. Driving. Fumbles. Up 10, holds the ball too long, fumbles leads directly to a TD.

Eli fumbles in the 3rd at the other teams 9 and thats the reason why they lost. I find the situations quite similar.
Wilson  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:00 pm : link
Is running for his life
What the hell is that returner thinking???  
timintey : 10/5/2015 11:01 pm : link
Seriously, how brain dead are some of these players???
Why did he try and catch the punt  
Tuckrule : 10/5/2015 11:01 pm : link
Stupid
So when Wilson turns it over  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:01 pm : link
for a TD, hes running for his life. When Eli rolls out due to pressure and fumbles it, its because he's braindead?

Gotcha.
wilson's stats look good  
madgiantscow009 : 10/5/2015 11:01 pm : link
and he had a few plays with his feet, but he has a hard time making throws from the pocket.
Well  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:02 pm : link
That's ancient history, IMO. Time to move on
Seattle has 13 points  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:03 pm : link
at home against one of the worst teams in the NFL who is losing guys left and right due to injuries.

Yet, Wilson is being blown like no one before.
RE: Well  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:04 pm : link
In comment 12528840 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
That's ancient history, IMO. Time to move on


Of course we should move on, because it would prove you wrong.
Dep  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:04 pm : link
I have no idea what you're talking about. Who claimed Eli is brain dead?
I'm not big on Stafford,  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 11:06 pm : link
but that was a nice throw to Tate on 3rd down.
Dep  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:07 pm : link
I'm frequently wrong. I think you've mistaken me for someone else.

I will say that Eli doesn't need a defender. I don't understand your obsession
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:08 pm : link
In comment 12528848 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
I'm frequently wrong. I think you've mistaken me for someone else.

I will say that Eli doesn't need a defender. I don't understand your obsession


All I did was ask a question that was similar to hotly debated topic here on BBI. I dont understand what your obsession is in defending Wilson?
2 Fourth Quarter QB Fumbles, What Is Eli ...  
Trainmaster : 10/5/2015 11:09 pm : link
... Oh, wait, that's All World Russell Wilson being careless holding onto the ball!
Carroll and Wilson are to blame if they lose this game  
jgambrosio : 10/5/2015 11:11 pm : link
Why didn't they run the ball at all? They kept passing and Wilson was getting run around back there with this line.
Stafford has looked very good this drive  
timintey : 10/5/2015 11:11 pm : link
.
Shouldn't Seattle have burned a TO there?  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:12 pm : link
.
RE: Carroll and Wilson are to blame if they lose this game  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/5/2015 11:13 pm : link
In comment 12528855 jgambrosio said:
Quote:
Why didn't they run the ball at all? They kept passing and Wilson was getting run around back there with this line.


This a a totally different team without Lynch offensively. Jimmy Graham is wasted In this offense Maybe they will cut him like they did Harvin mid season and we can grab him. I Wish.
Before the 2 minute warning  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:13 pm : link
.
Wow. MAJOR fuckup by Calvin Johnson  
Anakim : 10/5/2015 11:15 pm : link
.
Wow!  
timintey : 10/5/2015 11:15 pm : link
feel awful for CJ
why  
MookGiants : 10/5/2015 11:15 pm : link
was that not an illegal bat by the Seahawks?
LOLCalvin.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/5/2015 11:16 pm : link
.
Unreal  
GruningsOnTheHill : 10/5/2015 11:16 pm : link
Wow....
kam  
micky : 10/5/2015 11:16 pm : link
what a play
Wow  
Sonic Youth : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
What a Lions way to lose the game, and what a play by Kam
You can slap the ball of out bounds like that?  
illmatic : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
News to me.
Just go down  
schabadoo : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
Wrap it up and you win.
RE: why  
glowrider : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
In comment 12528865 MookGiants said:
Quote:
was that not an illegal bat by the Seahawks?


Because it was a fumble nor behind LOS too methinks.
What a nutty game  
Mad Mike : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
*
Fucking Seattle  
Big Blue '56 : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
.
I swear  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
Some weird fucking nonsense always happens in close games here favoring the Hawks. Ive seen more insane endings here than anywhere. Whether its Feeley missing 18 fgs, Romo fumbling snaps, last years nfc title game, now this horseshit. There is plenty more. It is fucking unreal. Two minuted earlier i was about to post how some weird shit was likely about to go down. Never fails
And Seattle will win again  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
because of their defense, despite Russell Wilson.
Tough way to lose a game  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:17 pm : link
The Lions are solid but snake bit
TV off.  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 11:18 pm : link
Get your Seahawks pom-poms out, national sports media.
RE: I swear  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:18 pm : link
In comment 12528875 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
Some weird fucking nonsense always happens in close games here favoring the Hawks. Ive seen more insane endings here than anywhere. Whether its Feeley missing 18 fgs, Romo fumbling snaps, last years nfc title game, now this horseshit. There is plenty more. It is fucking unreal. Two minuted earlier i was about to post how some weird shit was likely about to go down. Never fails


How could leave out the Fail Mary with the replacement refs? haha
Unreal  
Rflairr : 10/5/2015 11:18 pm : link
Shit like that happens to bad teams. Wow
RE: I swear  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 11:18 pm : link
In comment 12528875 MarshallOnMontana said:
Quote:
Some weird fucking nonsense always happens in close games here favoring the Hawks. Ive seen more insane endings here than anywhere. Whether its Feeley missing 18 fgs, Romo fumbling snaps, last years nfc title game, now this horseshit. There is plenty more. It is fucking unreal. Two minuted earlier i was about to post how some weird shit was likely about to go down. Never fails

I'm surprised you left out the Fail Mary.
Calvin...  
EricJ : 10/5/2015 11:19 pm : link
physically gifted. Often comes up short.

Meanwhile, the fantasy football gods were smiling on the people who had Calvin in their lineup as he was ready to cross the goal line and then ripped their hearts out in a split second.
you see punters bat it out of back of end zones when  
micky : 10/5/2015 11:19 pm : link
they fumble. So it's legal i guess.
Dep  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:20 pm : link
I'm curious, do you hate all QBs except Eli?
Dep  
MarshallOnMontana : 10/5/2015 11:20 pm : link
Wow that too. I mean what the fuck? Its nuts. I cant believe the shit that happens in this place
RE: you see punters bat it out of back of end zones when  
shyster : 10/5/2015 11:24 pm : link
In comment 12528883 micky said:
Quote:
they fumble. So it's legal i guess.


I'm not sure about that reasoning. The punter is accepting the bad result, the safety, so there's nothing to be gained by accepting the penalty.

On first glance at the rules digest, seems illegal. Maybe not reviewable though.

"A player may not bat or punch:

(a) A loose ball (in field of play) toward his opponents goal line or in any direction in either end zone."

Seattle player clearly did the latter.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Dep  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:25 pm : link
In comment 12528884 AP in Halfmoon said:
Quote:
I'm curious, do you hate all QBs except Eli?


No actually I enjoy watching a ton of QBs around the league.

I'm curious why are you so sensitive that I called out Wilson for making two huge mistakes? All I did was ask a simple question. Relax there tiger.
Well techinically  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/5/2015 11:25 pm : link
he batted it away from the goal line.
.  
Anakim : 10/5/2015 11:26 pm : link
Pete Prisco ‏@PriscoCBS 2m2 minutes ago
It's illegal to bat or punch the ball like Wagner did
RE: Well techinically  
shyster : 10/5/2015 11:28 pm : link
In comment 12528892 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
he batted it away from the goal line.


But the second part of the rules says you can't bat in either direction while in the end zone itself, which applies here.
Seattle player batted the ball out of the endzone...  
bradshaw44 : 10/5/2015 11:30 pm : link
No review by the league?
Too late  
shyster : 10/5/2015 11:32 pm : link
Announcers now talking about it.
LOL  
Sonic Youth : 10/5/2015 11:33 pm : link
If anyone is still watching, there's the confirmation. League totally fucked up.

I totally missed the bat out of the back of the end zone. Huge mistake by the refs.

How could they fuck that up?
Turnover should have been reviewed  
PA Giant Fan : 10/5/2015 11:33 pm : link
Officials screwed them...lol..

It was crazy obvious
How do the fuck is not reviewed  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:33 pm : link
or called?

If I am Detroit, I am protesting. That official looking straight at it should be fired tomorrow.
RE: How do the fuck is not reviewed  
Sonic Youth : 10/5/2015 11:34 pm : link
In comment 12528907 dep026 said:
Quote:
or called?

If I am Detroit, I am protesting. That official looking straight at it should be fired tomorrow.

Agree. Forget game altering - that can be season altering.

Watch the Seahawks get into the playoffs instead of us BASED ON THIS ONE FUCKING PLAY.
should have been 1st and goal  
PaulBlakeTSU : 10/5/2015 11:34 pm : link
from the half-yard line for Detroit.
wow,,officials messed that bat call  
micky : 10/5/2015 11:35 pm : link
it was illegal
At least the Lions  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/5/2015 11:36 pm : link
Will get an apology from the league.
Billion dollar league  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/5/2015 11:36 pm : link
10-cent officiating.
RE: LOL  
shyster : 10/5/2015 11:37 pm : link
In comment 12528905 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
If anyone is still watching, there's the confirmation. League totally fucked up.

I totally missed the bat out of the back of the end zone. Huge mistake by the refs.

How could they fuck that up?


I think it's the point that micky brought up. You more often see the bat out of the end zone when a player is accepting a bad result, a safety, so the penalty is irrelevant.

That's why Steve Young is confused too.
that was bad  
micky : 10/5/2015 11:38 pm : link
granted I thought myself it was legal because I've seen punters do that when they botch a snap and they bat it out of back of end zone to avoid a touchdown and take a safety.
RE: RE: LOL  
Mad Mike : 10/5/2015 11:38 pm : link
In comment 12528923 shyster said:
Quote:
That's why Steve Young is confused too.

Let's not get crazy, Steve Young doesn't need a reason to be confused.
The refereeing this year is horrid  
montanagiant : 10/5/2015 11:39 pm : link
Key missed calls that effect the outcomes of games seems to be the norm
"Shhh! Don't bother us! We're counting our money."  
Mr. Bungle : 10/5/2015 11:39 pm : link
- The NFL

Integrity of the game. Haha. As if that amounts to a hill of beans to this league.
Safety  
GruningsOnTheHill : 10/5/2015 11:40 pm : link
was my first thought when I saw the guy intentionally hit it out. How is it any different from when a punter will kick a blocked punt out of the back of the end zone to take the safety instead of a possible TD by a defender falling on the ball?
RE: RE: Russell Wilson  
santacruzom : 10/5/2015 11:41 pm : link
In comment 12528824 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 12528813 santacruzom said:


Quote:


Is one of those guys whose critics vanish for long stretches as he plays well, then reappear very loudly and boast of how they always knew he was overrated and gimmicky when he posts the obligatory bad game or two.



You mean these two fumbles he has lost that have changed the course of the game?


Yea, that's exactly what I mean! Plays like that snap his critics out of the silence they retreat to when he plays wrll.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/5/2015 11:42 pm : link
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo 7m7 minutes ago

Tirico just said they talked to Dean Blandino, who agreed it should've been an illegal bat and remained Lions ball.
However, this involves a touchback instead of a safety  
micky : 10/5/2015 11:43 pm : link
in this situation
RE: RE: RE: Russell Wilson  
dep026 : 10/5/2015 11:43 pm : link
In comment 12528941 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 12528824 dep026 said:


Quote:


In comment 12528813 santacruzom said:


Quote:


Is one of those guys whose critics vanish for long stretches as he plays well, then reappear very loudly and boast of how they always knew he was overrated and gimmicky when he posts the obligatory bad game or two.



You mean these two fumbles he has lost that have changed the course of the game?



Yea, that's exactly what I mean! Plays like that snap his critics out of the silence they retreat to when he plays wrll.


If you think that was a well played game by Wilson, then I cant have a discussion with you about it. Those 2 TOs should have cost them the game. But his defense, like always, overcame his mistake.
RE: ...  
glowrider : 10/5/2015 11:44 pm : link
In comment 12528944 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo 7m7 minutes ago

Tirico just said they talked to Dean Blandino, who agreed it should've been an illegal bat and remained Lions ball.


Bummer.
Wilson made some amazing plays  
PA Giant Fan : 10/5/2015 11:45 pm : link
but those two fumbles should have cost them the game
RE: ...  
montanagiant : 10/5/2015 11:50 pm : link
In comment 12528944 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo 7m7 minutes ago

Tirico just said they talked to Dean Blandino, who agreed it should've been an illegal bat and remained Lions ball.

So then why the hell did Blandino not change it? Much like what Caldwell is saying, he is sitting in NY on the phone with the review crew when this occurred, so why the hell did he allow it then if he admits it was wrong.

We are seeing this too much with teams that the media has anointed, getting the benefits of these BS non-calls
RE: RE: ...  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/5/2015 11:50 pm : link
In comment 12528968 montanagiant said:
Quote:
In comment 12528944 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Mike Garafolo ‏@MikeGarafolo 7m7 minutes ago

Tirico just said they talked to Dean Blandino, who agreed it should've been an illegal bat and remained Lions ball.


So then why the hell did Blandino not change it? Much like what Caldwell is saying, he is sitting in NY on the phone with the review crew when this occurred, so why the hell did he allow it then if he admits it was wrong.

We are seeing this too much with teams that the media has anointed, getting the benefits of these BS non-calls


Maybe I missed it if it was already discussed, but is that aspect of the play reviewable?
RE: Safety  
Mad Mike : 10/5/2015 11:52 pm : link
In comment 12528940 GruningsOnTheHill said:
Quote:
was my first thought when I saw the guy intentionally hit it out. How is it any different from when a punter will kick a blocked punt out of the back of the end zone to take the safety instead of a possible TD by a defender falling on the ball?

A penalty against the offense (punter) in its own endzone is a safety. A penalty on the defense in its own endzone is not.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Mad Mike : 10/5/2015 11:54 pm : link
In comment 12528972 Mike in Long Beach said:
Quote:
Maybe I missed it if it was already discussed, but is that aspect of the play reviewable?

Blandino said it isn't.
Not even the refs know the damn rules.  
Dave in Hoboken : 10/5/2015 11:56 pm : link
Just too many rules all over this league. It's insane. The fact that their own refs don't know the rules says alot.
if the replacement refs  
MookGiants : 10/5/2015 11:57 pm : link
did what those refs just did the media would be ready to have them stoned in the streets.

These clowns are every bit as bad as the replacements.

It was so obvious watching it live, how do they miss things like that?
so if you try to recover  
The Turk : 10/6/2015 12:02 am : link
the fumble in the end zone and inadvertently knock it out that's OK, but if you bat it out that's not OK? Is that the rule? So the ref has to judge if you are trying to bat or if you are trying to recover. In this it was obvious but what a stupid rule
Here we go with the spinning  
montanagiant : 10/6/2015 12:02 am : link
"Well it really was that not bad of a push"
back judge was staring right at the play  
micky : 10/6/2015 12:06 am : link
why they didn't get together and make the correction..Don't know
I heard that the play was not reviewable. Why?  
Ivan15 : 10/6/2015 8:31 am : link
Fumbles are reviewable. Change of possession plays are reviewable. Plays in the last 2 minutes are reviewable.

Any explanation why that particular play was not reviewable.
horrid game. unwatchable. poorly played, penalty laden  
Victor in CT : 10/6/2015 8:56 am : link
and Gruden is insufferable.
RE: horrid game. unwatchable. poorly played, penalty laden  
GMAN4LIFE : 10/6/2015 10:37 am : link
In comment 12529207 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
and Gruden is insufferable.




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