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Glauber: Source - Giants Hope JPP Back for Final 4 Games

Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/5/2015 9:14 pm
Quote:
Pierre-Paul's injuries resulted in the amputation of his index finger and portions of his thumb and middle finger. The source said the damage to the middle finger is more extensive than previously thought, although the Giants think it wouldn't prevent Pierre-Paul from being able to play as long as skin grafts used to repair his hand and fingers are strong enough.
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"If he gets back for four games, that would be good," the source said. "If it's more, that would be a bonus."

The source added, however, that the team remains realistic about the possibility that a return might not happen this year if further healing doesn't take place. "It's still possible he doesn't come back [this year],'' the source said.

Source: Giants hopeful Jason Pierre-Paul can return for final four games - ( New Window )
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RE: How is 4 mm irrelevant?  
phillygiant : 10/5/2015 9:51 pm : link
In comment 12528737 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
I was under the impression they can use towards this year? I agree it's not in their nature to part with many picks, but there have been a high number of trades with other other teams recently facing injury and picking up someone to help.


In one case a team traded a 2017 pick, Dallas right?

What about the pash rusher on Chicago, Young? Would you give a 6th rd pick?


Who do you suggest (or is worthy) spending 4 million on?

A street free agent?
...  
christian : 10/5/2015 10:09 pm : link
Again, the Giants have handled this perfectly. A more emotional front office could have compounded a bad situation into something worse with rash actions.

If I had to guess he gets activated after the bye week, gets six weeks pay and plays four games.

The Giants save ~10M, and get a decent sample size to judge what to do with the player next year.
Depending upon the team's playoff picture  
EricJ : 10/5/2015 10:11 pm : link
at the end of the season, I may not want him going anywhere near the team. If for some reason we are in the mix and playing fairly well on the defensive line, I would not want JPP anywhere near the field. Ruin the chemistry and create a fucking circus. No thanks.

Now, if we are totally out of it then ok lets see if he can still play at the end of a meaningless season.
RE: and this is really important  
Milton : 10/5/2015 10:17 pm : link
In comment 12528718 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"According to NFL policy, a free agent can work out for a team twice before agreeing to a contract, meaning that the Giants could have one more meeting with Pierre-Paul before determining a course of action. The team prefers to wait until Pierre-Paul is closer to being able to play before meeting with him for a second time."
Does a physical count as a work out?
RE: Source, eh?  
Milton : 10/5/2015 10:18 pm : link
In comment 12528703 B in ALB said:
Quote:
Until you hear what camp this comes from - again it's nonsense.

Oh he might be back. Might not be back. In other words we don't know shit.
Given that the source is only saying he might be back for the last four games and anything more than that is a bonus, you can bet the source isn't anyone from JPP's camp.
RE: Depending upon the team's playoff picture  
djm : 10/5/2015 10:43 pm : link
In comment 12528762 EricJ said:
Quote:
at the end of the season, I may not want him going anywhere near the team. If for some reason we are in the mix and playing fairly well on the defensive line, I would not want JPP anywhere near the field. Ruin the chemistry and create a fucking circus. No thanks.

Now, if we are totally out of it then ok lets see if he can still play at the end of a meaningless season.


I'm sorry but this makes no sense whatsoever. How does adding a player to the mix ruin chemistry? If the guy can play he can play. And he's not gonna come in and just glom all the snaps anyway. He would just add talent to a unit. If the guy couldn't play worth a shit I doubt the Giants just roll JPP out there. And on the flip side if the Giants are out of it why waste the money on a player that you didn't want to play crucial minutes to begin with??
RE: and this is really important  
LauderdaleMatty : 10/5/2015 10:50 pm : link
In comment 12528718 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"According to NFL policy, a free agent can work out for a team twice before agreeing to a contract, meaning that the Giants could have one more meeting with Pierre-Paul before determining a course of action. The team prefers to wait until Pierre-Paul is closer to being able to play before meeting with him for a second time."


He came in for a physical. Is that really considered a workout? Nothing new at all. Regardless of how fucked structurally his hand is, it's the skin grafts that will determine if he can try and play.

Whatever. He will try to say he's ready at some point to collect some $$$ is my guess regardless if he really can or not.
Pass Rush  
Samiam : 10/5/2015 10:57 pm : link
The Giants have a pretty weak pass rush. And, it's weak even when they send extra people. To date, that's an indisputable fact. Hopefully, it'll get better as the year goes on. And, some of the better pass rushers. don't play the run. JPP, even when he didn't play well the past few years, would still be an upgrade over any of the DEs we currently have. Now, none of us know how he'll perform when he does get here. So, why do people act like they have a clue. At this point, let's just wait and see how it works itself out.
Can he play just four games?  
Doomster : 10/5/2015 10:59 pm : link
I thought he had to sign the tender by the tenth game? Or is that just to get credit for a year?

If I am JPP, would I want to risk playing with that hand for 3.6M? If he hurts it while playing, or plays poorly with it, that makes him less attractive the following year, for potential teams to sign him....On the other hand, maybe that 3.6M may be his last hurrah...
It's time  
Arcanum : 10/5/2015 11:07 pm : link
For the Giants to move on. Continue to help him, any way that they can. But I don't see him being effective at all.. I hope I'm wrong though
Forgot to add,  
Doomster : 10/5/2015 11:08 pm : link
if the Giants are desperate for his services and are willing to take a chance on him this year, he might want to get at least 7 paychecks, to qualify for a year's NFL service, not 4....

How effective would he be just for 4 games, though......How long to get in football shape?

But more importantly, when they examine him, will they have him take that hand, and give some hard side slaps to a wall, and try and do a rope climb? Exactly what is the criteria for that hand to pass, and not get NFI'd?
RE: Forgot to add,  
Sonic Youth : 10/5/2015 11:23 pm : link
In comment 12528852 Doomster said:
Quote:
if the Giants are desperate for his services and are willing to take a chance on him this year, he might want to get at least 7 paychecks, to qualify for a year's NFL service, not 4....

How effective would he be just for 4 games, though......How long to get in football shape?

But more importantly, when they examine him, will they have him take that hand, and give some hard side slaps to a wall, and try and do a rope climb? Exactly what is the criteria for that hand to pass, and not get NFI'd?

Well, 8 games

4 regular season, 4 playoffs

=)
Guys  
Rjanyg : 10/5/2015 11:25 pm : link
He won't give us anymore pass rush or run defense than the guys we have and they have all their digits. I would rather see Moore given the opportunity. Dude can flat out rush the passer, coaches have to let him loose. Take the good the bad and please put the JPP is coming back to save our season shit to bed.
RE: How is 4 mm irrelevant?  
djstat : 10/5/2015 11:25 pm : link
In comment 12528737 DavidinBMNY said:
Quote:
I was under the impression they can use towards this year? I agree it's not in their nature to part with many picks, but there have been a high number of trades with other other teams recently facing injury and picking up someone to help.


In one case a team traded a 2017 pick, Dallas right?

What about the pash rusher on Chicago, Young? Would you give a 6th rd pick?
Who can be signed with the $4 Million? Anyone worth money is signed
RE: Guys  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/5/2015 11:49 pm : link
In comment 12528893 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
He won't give us anymore pass rush or run defense than the guys we have and they have all their digits. I would rather see Moore given the opportunity. Dude can flat out rush the passer, coaches have to let him loose. Take the good the bad and please put the JPP is coming back to save our season shit to bed.


Moore has been really unnoticeable through 4 games. If anything, I think some pressure on his job could light a fire under his ass.
JPP  
Dragon : 10/6/2015 2:18 am : link
This whole issue needs to end very soon before it becomes a war between JPP, Giants and the team. iF you wash your hands of him then everyone will ask why not wait and see what he can do? The answer is in all cases at this point JPP may play six to eight games this year, however no one knows which JPP will appear.

Sure the Giants need to protect themselves and the investment they made in the player but history is on the Giants side to simply say, in the best interest of the player and the team we will just move on and wish him the best going forward. i think almost no one would want to pay over 400,000 a game for a player you have no idea what he can do. To try and come to some contract agreemwnt with the team fighting to gain it's identity would only create unneeded questions and locker room issues.

This is a terrible saga but one that was made by the player and not the team but in the end the team will look like the villain. JPP has done nothing right in this entire process to make himself an asset to this team going forward so cutting the cord is without a doubt the best move at this time. If this issue is not handled soon then the real problems will start and the finger pointing will become a bigger story than the team. Some rules in all sports no one player is bigger than the team and there was a time you where not here and a time you will no longer be here. JPP put himself in the position he is in right now no one else did that no matter how you look at this situation.
RE: JPP  
aquidneck : 10/6/2015 7:20 am : link
In comment 12529065 Dragon said:
Quote:
This whole issue needs to end very soon before it becomes a war between JPP, Giants and the team. iF you wash your hands of him then everyone will ask why not wait and see what he can do? The answer is in all cases at this point JPP may play six to eight games this year, however no one knows which JPP will appear.

Sure the Giants need to protect themselves and the investment they made in the player but history is on the Giants side to simply say, in the best interest of the player and the team we will just move on and wish him the best going forward. i think almost no one would want to pay over 400,000 a game for a player you have no idea what he can do. To try and come to some contract agreemwnt with the team fighting to gain it's identity would only create unneeded questions and locker room issues.

This is a terrible saga but one that was made by the player and not the team but in the end the team will look like the villain. JPP has done nothing right in this entire process to make himself an asset to this team going forward so cutting the cord is without a doubt the best move at this time. If this issue is not handled soon then the real problems will start and the finger pointing will become a bigger story than the team. Some rules in all sports no one player is bigger than the team and there was a time you where not here and a time you will no longer be here. JPP put himself in the position he is in right now no one else did that no matter how you look at this situation.


The team wants JPP to play. If they were going to rescind the tag it would already have happened.
I've moved on from JPP  
River Mike : 10/6/2015 7:20 am : link
The Giants will decide what's best for the team, I'm not invested one way or another and don't care one way or the other.
If he can bolster the pass rush for the stretch run, so be it  
SGMen : 10/6/2015 7:27 am : link
But I personally think JPP is done for the Giants.

I am hoping we sign Prince long-term as he is a UFA by using the JPP money. I mean, why waste it right?
So, he is not a 9 finger JPP?  
ZogZerg : 10/6/2015 7:32 am : link
He is a 7 finger plus 2 partial finger JPP.

If Giants in Playoff Hunt, do they really want to dump a DE that is helping the team to add one that may not? It's going to be a tough call, especially if guys are dinged up late in the year.
There have been lots of comments...  
silverfox : 10/6/2015 7:37 am : link
...about how surprised some folks are that the defense is doing so well (especially against the run) without JPP. I think the Giants organization has realized that they can win without him, and that they will take their own sweet time bringing him back, if ever.

He was the unquestioned best player on their defense  
Headhunter : 10/6/2015 7:45 am : link
Can he still be that? I don't have a clue. If they feel he can play after he heals, the should have a limo waiting to bring him to the Quest. Again, I don't knowwhat he still is or isn't, but I'm as sure as shot one of you do either no matter how definitive you are about it. If he can play you seriously think chemistry will be an issue? What is this Little League?
RE: This is  
UberAlias : 10/6/2015 7:59 am : link
In comment 12528733 JonC said:
Quote:
a team source refuting the recent report that JPP would report in two weeks.
Good call Jon.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/6/2015 8:27 am : link
So if part of the thumb is gone too, doesn't that completely mess up "grip strength"?

Doesn't the sum total of all of this really make him almost one-handed?
RE: ...  
aquidneck : 10/6/2015 8:30 am : link
In comment 12529146 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So if part of the thumb is gone too, doesn't that completely mess up "grip strength"?

Doesn't the sum total of all of this really make him almost one-handed?


Dunno. No denying he's going to be diminished, yet the franchise tender remains.
I'd be more interested  
DavidinBMNY : 10/6/2015 8:32 am : link
in Players that are on 53 man rosters for teams going nowhere, 0-4 teams or 1-3 teams that are rebuilding. A TE , Pass Rusher or complimentary WR.

I'd also strongly consider giving a contract to Welker if he showed as well as Coughlin said he did, but that depends on his likeliness of getting a concussion again. I'd be warry of that, and I like the idea of a healthy Welker, not someone who is going to put himself in obvious danger given past history.

For Pass Rush there's a chance Ayers will make a difference in a few weeks , but for TE play the Giants could really use someone experienced who can block and catch.
RE: Guys  
Victor in CT : 10/6/2015 8:44 am : link
In comment 12528893 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
He won't give us anymore pass rush or run defense than the guys we have and they have all their digits. I would rather see Moore given the opportunity. Dude can flat out rush the passer, coaches have to let him loose. Take the good the bad and please put the JPP is coming back to save our season shit to bed.


But he can't TACKLE the passer. Banks made a very interesting critique of it on Sunday's radio broadcast.
Rjanyg, I do agree with you though, that they should cut bait  
Victor in CT : 10/6/2015 8:48 am : link
on JPP.
He may very well be able to  
RollBlue : 10/6/2015 8:53 am : link
help the last four games. People on here swore up and down that Rich Seubert would never be able to play again after he shattered his leg. In regards to $4-5 million, I think we owe that to JPP for 2011. Without him we don't even have a winning record, let alone a Super Bowl.
I'm pretty sure JPP got paid in 2011. And that finger tip  
Victor in CT : 10/6/2015 9:11 am : link
that deflected the FG against Dallas is no longer attached.
i don't understand the cutting ties with him now crowd  
UConn4523 : 10/6/2015 9:12 am : link
outside of annoying press, we lose nothing by keeping the tag on the table with another workout scheduled for later this season. I understand fans want it to go away, but if the team thinks there's even a remote chance that he can help down the stretch, they are 100% doing the right thing here.
This just convinces me we don't see JPP this year.  
jcn56 : 10/6/2015 9:13 am : link
Last leak - from JPP's camp - 'JPP targeting Oct 19th' (2 weeks from now)

This leak - Giants "hopeful" for last 4 games (Dec 14th against Miami)

Basically kicking the checkpoint two months down the road. They haven't lifted the tender, but only because JPP hasn't signed. I'd bet anything if he did sign between now and the Miami game they'd outright NFI him. The only reason he's still on tender is next year - this last leak to me means we're not seeing JPP on the field this year at all.
RE: and this is really important  
AcidTest : 10/6/2015 9:20 am : link
In comment 12528718 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"According to NFL policy, a free agent can work out for a team twice before agreeing to a contract, meaning that the Giants could have one more meeting with Pierre-Paul before determining a course of action. The team prefers to wait until Pierre-Paul is closer to being able to play before meeting with him for a second time."


I didn't know that. Thanks for the information. I assume as a consequence that the Giants will put off the second meeting for quite some time.

One full, and two partial amputations. I feel sorry for him, but I don't think he's playing this year, and I think he's played his last game as a Giant. We shouldn't be so concerned about our pass rush that we become eager to play him. He won't be anywhere near the force he was, at least not this year. His hand is now as you note, to the point where he's almost or effectively one handed. He's also missed all of camp, preseason, and most of the regular season. Does anybody really believe he's just going to come in and provide an instant pass rush? Teams are also going to run right at him. I don't see him as anywhere near as good as our current players, whatever their pass rushing deficiencies.

I'd only even consider taking him back if I thought he could play, and we had loads of injuries at the position. In that regard, I wouldn't be surprised to see him file a grievance against the Giants if they conclude he can't play, and he and his people think that he can. As you said, what a mess.
RE: This is  
Deej : 10/6/2015 9:21 am : link
In comment 12528733 JonC said:
Quote:
a team source refuting the recent report that JPP would report in two weeks.


Havent followed the recent JPP discussion much, but I assumed the "report in 2 weeks" think was just him reporting with enough time to be rostered for 10 games. Isnt that the normal deadline when a guy doesnt sign his franchise tender? Sign w/ 10 games to go or you get screwed the next season too?

I am reflexively pro-player in these disputes, but the lack of humility on JPP's part after blowing off part of his hand has been remarkable. Since day 1, it has been about how he gets paid the most.
The media  
TMS : 10/6/2015 9:32 am : link
haunting of the Giants regarding JPP continues. This will be a season long distraction we do not need.
why would we think  
fkap : 10/6/2015 9:34 am : link
Giants would consider tagging him next year IF he doesn't get his year of service? He was borderline worthy this year. No way they franchise him again when it's highly likely his ability will be diminished. That whole angle is a non starter.

JPP is NOT going to sign the tender with intention of filing a grievance until he has a very good chance of winning. IF he has a good chance of winning, it means he's healed, and the Giants would bring him back with open arms.

He's not likely to be worth it, but offering him 4 games of salary is probably the Giants way of saying thanks for the memories, as well as an incentive to not try signing before both sides are ready for him to sign.
Go back and read  
PaulN : 10/6/2015 9:59 am : link
Christian's post. He put it perfect. I would guess the Giants would either give him a shot to play the last 4 games so they can evaluate what to do with him next season, or if they are convinced he will not be capable of playing this season, then they will be forced to move forward. But none of us know at this point, the Giants don't know at this point, otherwise he would either be playing now, or they would have rescinded the tag, so all the guessing is just that, just guessing. We would all be thrilled if the Giants are in the thick of the division race, and we could add JPP and he was effective the last 4 games, who would not be all in on that, so let's hope that is the way it plays out. Otherwise this is all a waste of time to guess at.
Wild Card,  
old man : 10/6/2015 10:30 am : link
Playoff, Conference Championship, Super Bowl?
It's a club hand at this point  
TD : 10/6/2015 11:04 am : link
He'll need a year to get used to it before he can be expected to perform at his best (which will still be a diminished version of what he was).

I wouldn't pay him a dime to play in 2015 (I probably wouldn't want to pay him franchise money in 2016 either). If he sues and we're forced to drop the tag, so be it. We have 14 million extra to play with in free agency next year. We'll make better use of that money.
Wouldn't even be remotely concerned about 2016 now  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/6/2015 11:11 am : link
Worry about this year. If there's something he can contribute, then use him.

You have all offseason to figure out what to do after that.
RE: RE: and this is really important  
ColHowPepper : 10/6/2015 11:15 am : link
In comment 12529284 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 12528718 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
"According to NFL policy, a free agent can work out for a team twice before agreeing to a contract, meaning that the Giants could have one more meeting with Pierre-Paul before determining a course of action. The team prefers to wait until Pierre-Paul is closer to being able to play before meeting with him for a second time."
[AcidTest]I didn't know that. Thanks for the information. I assume as a consequence that the Giants will put off the second meeting for quite some time....


Acid and Eric, seems to me that JPP does not qualify as a FA within the meaning of that limitation. He continues to be subject to the FT, so he is not, strictly speaking, a FA: no other team can sign him unless and until the FT is lifted, at which time he would become a FA and, imo, then be subject to the two-meeting rule.

But that's just me attempting to read the provision to make sense of the applicable set-up between JPP and the Giants.

Wow, and with the damage done to the hand, a signing of one kind or another becomes more of a long-shot: one total and parts of two other digits amputated + the skin grafts; tread very lightly here.

I would be really surprised...  
Jan in DC : 10/6/2015 12:07 pm : link
if the Giants used the Franchise tag on JPP next year. Maybe not even the transition tag. I guess a lot will probably hinge on how this plays out for the rest of the season, but if he had part of his thumb removed as well, I think it's going to be tough to say that he's going to have an impact going forward.
TTH  
TD : 10/6/2015 1:52 pm : link
My post presupposes that JPP won't be able to contribute much this year. In fact, its more likely that he gets injured or damages the hand/skin than contributes if he plays in 2016.

If you want a better chance at 2015, trade for Bennett and pay his $5 mil salary instead of paying the same or more for JPP.

Personally, I'd save the money and use it in the offseason.
Before the season I wanted JPP gone, not so much anymore...  
GloryDayz : 10/6/2015 2:39 pm : link
The way the season is playing out, Giants could/should be in a position to compete for the division title and a playoff berth.

Even if JPP is extremely limited, and comes in just as pass rushing specialist, that could be a big factor. Right now the front four cant generate any pressure, and Spags' blitzes arent getting home much either.

Of course all that could change as the season progresses, but you still "cant have enough pass rushers".
RE: RE: This is  
JonC : 10/6/2015 2:40 pm : link
In comment 12529287 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 12528733 JonC said:


Quote:


a team source refuting the recent report that JPP would report in two weeks.



Havent followed the recent JPP discussion much, but I assumed the "report in 2 weeks" think was just him reporting with enough time to be rostered for 10 games. Isnt that the normal deadline when a guy doesnt sign his franchise tender? Sign w/ 10 games to go or you get screwed the next season too?

I am reflexively pro-player in these disputes, but the lack of humility on JPP's part after blowing off part of his hand has been remarkable. Since day 1, it has been about how he gets paid the most.


Deej, I believe you are correct on that front and that's the position the agent will take as well, thus the leak he probably floated last week, insinuating JPP would report and be ready to hit the field in two weeks. His ultimate goal is to extract maximum dollar of what's remaining of the tender.

What I'd heard is both sides agreed JPP would re-report in six weeks from the prior exam at the beginning of Sept, and he would be medically re-evaluated, with no promises from NYG as to whether he'd be cleared to begin practicing, etc. The org is reportedly split with many believing he's done for 2015, and many believing he might be able to contribute during the second half of the season.

I expect to hear an update after he's examined again, presumably early next week.

RE: This just convinces me we don't see JPP this year.  
GloryDayz : 10/6/2015 3:08 pm : link
In comment 12529257 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Last leak - from JPP's camp - 'JPP targeting Oct 19th' (2 weeks from now)

This leak - Giants "hopeful" for last 4 games (Dec 14th against Miami)

Basically kicking the checkpoint two months down the road. They haven't lifted the tender, but only because JPP hasn't signed. I'd bet anything if he did sign between now and the Miami game they'd outright NFI him. The only reason he's still on tender is next year - this last leak to me means we're not seeing JPP on the field this year at all.


That could just be the 2 sides sending each other messages, feeling out each other.

All of this chatter wont matter if/when it makes sense for both sides.
Glory  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/6/2015 3:26 pm : link
Exactly, he has to pass a physical and show he can play. The Giants will survive without him. If he can play at a reasonably high level for some games it's a bonus. At this point, this is nothing but pointless gossip. I'll pay attention when he's actually at a practice.
Two Things.....This  
Bluesbreaker : 10/6/2015 6:28 pm : link
RE: ...
aquidneck : 8:30 am : link : reply
In comment 12529146 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
So if part of the thumb is gone too, doesn't that completely mess up "grip strength"?

Doesn't the sum total of all of this really make him almost one-handed?


Dunno. No denying he's going to be diminished, yet the franchise tender remains.

And This...
Pass Rush
Samiam : 10/5/2015 10:57 pm : link : reply
The Giants have a pretty weak pass rush. And, it's weak even when they send extra people. To date, that's an indisputable fact. Hopefully, it'll get better as the year goes on. And, some of the better pass rushers. don't play the run. JPP, even when he didn't play well the past few years, would still be an upgrade over any of the DEs we currently have. Now, none of us know how he'll perform when he does get here. So, why do people act like they have a clue. At this point, let's just wait and see how it works itself out.
It could't have happened at a worse time I really
and Still think we can make some serious noise this
year and JPP Really put Himself the Giants in a Bad situation . We Won't know Jack until he Plays a game or Two
we can Only hope that he Plays well and if he doesn't
Then we should have plenty of Cap Space to replace him .
Put him at LDE  
PEEJ : 10/6/2015 6:47 pm : link
he can use rip and swim moves (which don't require fingers). and still grab the QB with his left hand. :)
...  
christian : 10/6/2015 7:59 pm : link
What can't be denied is the Giants have had a DE oc's worry about for the better part of 20 years, and now they don't. That's why you franchise and pay guys like him. We have 3 ok DEs, and 3 young guys with holes in their game as it stands, and they are barely sniffing the QB, even in coverage sack scenarios.
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