I know I'm probably going to get some heat for this thead, but I don't care I believe it. Before the season started no one gave the Giants a shot and looking at the roster that really isn't surprising. We were hit hard by injuries early and even if those players would of been here we had a lot of glaring weaknesses. While we do have some superstarts, OBJ, we have a lot of journeymen, no name, undrafted and average players filling out the roster.
However, with all that said they have been in every game they played and are now back into the thick of things. Now, I know people are going to think this is crazy based on how some of them have ended. I think Spags has done a hell of a job making this bunch of players into a tough D so far. I'm also surprised we've been able to push through on offense with a young line and a carousel of WR's due to injury. I don't know at this point if the Giants have the horses to go all the way, but regardless I'm very impressed with what they've done so far.
Ha.
That his decision making could possibly indicate he has senility.
I'm not making this up.
I am still confused relative to clock management and play calling late in games.
Like a moth to a flame.
I FUCKING LOVE WHAT SPAGS HAS DONE. Granted the pass defense late in games has cost us big, but I hope time tells the story a little differently. growing pains. execution for 60 minutes.
The idea that Coughlin's rough patch the first couple games was due to age was fucking stupid. There's a lot of shitty clock management and coaching in this league from guys 20-30 years his junior.
That his decision making could possibly indicate he has senility.
I'm not making this up.
The lack of situational clock management execution for the Dallas and Atlanta games is still lingering even in the wins against Redskins and Bills. It needs to be better addressed. It bit us twice - but that does not mean the team wasn't prepared to win any of the 4 games. They clearly were for all 4, just didn't close the door on 2 of them.
Clock management seems to be a problem. Getting the guys ready to play and game planning seem to be strengths.
A work in process and room for improvement just like with the team as a whole.
But when you look around the league in the 4th quarter.. It would appear the alcohol they stop selling to fans in the stands at halftime, has been diverted to coaching staffs in the second half. There have been so many mindnumbingly dumb decisions leaguewide at the end of games so far this year.
It's kinda strange actually, I don't remember it being **this** bad in year's past leaguewide
That his decision making could possibly indicate he has senility.
I'm not making this up.
TC has shit the bed on clock management all year so he doesn't get that pass from me.
But as for other parts of being a HC ? He is awesome.
As individuals I'm not sure they are, but as a team very much so.
McAdoo: A-. Yeah, they are not completely in sync. But only two turnovers in 4 games. Very few three and outs.
Coughlin: B-. Would be an "A" but as HC he takes the responsibility for clock management screw-ups. Finally is not insisting Giants establish the run first and foremost. Letting McAdoo run the uptempo offense. Fairly amazing that an old-school guy has been able to adjust to the new NFL
On Defense, no JPP, 2 new Safeties, Casillas, Thomas and Unga are new LBs and apart from Jenkins, Selvie and Ayers, a lot of youth on the DL. So, Spags has also coached very well. He needs to fix the middle of the field, TE coverage and wheel routes to RBs.
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Spags and McAdoo certainly have got things going in the right direction. But, there are a group of young guys and FAs that have made a big difference in the talent level on the field. Jennings, Williams, Vereen, Richburg, Flowers, Schwartz, Newhouse, Harris, Wynn, Bromley, Kennard, Casillas, Thomas, Collins, Unga, Whitlock. Folks wanted to dismiss the talent level before they even got on the field. These guys are pretty good players. It may be a bunch of pretty good guys rather than a couple of superstars but that works.
As individuals I'm not sure they are, but as a team very much so.
Really? Wynn doesn't do it for you? The #4 DL in the league in tackles and clearly a stud against the run. Kennard is playing Pro Bowl level. Richburg and Flowers, aren't major upgrages? Casillas and Thomas don't make plays? Vereen isn't a big addition? Don't get why it's not the guys making the plays that matter.
Case in point - having them in position to win the game against Dallas, opening on the road with the roster being what it was thanks to health and bad fireworks handling? Very good. Then, they take certain victory and piss it away, and you forget 56 minutes of good and are stuck with 4 minutes of awful.
Rinse, lather, repeat with Atlanta. Atlanta's shaping up to be a good team. We had them right where we wanted, and a key mistake at the worst time pisses away good faith again.
I'll admit - I've wondered whether TC is still up to the task. Never called him senile or stupid - but whether he's just been here too long and maybe the message has gotten stale. From what I've seen this season, though, the team seems to be hanging in there and playing hard. If the coaching staff can just iron out a few wrinkles, they'll have done a remarkable job this season.
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In comment 12529604 BillT said:
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Spags and McAdoo certainly have got things going in the right direction. But, there are a group of young guys and FAs that have made a big difference in the talent level on the field. Jennings, Williams, Vereen, Richburg, Flowers, Schwartz, Newhouse, Harris, Wynn, Bromley, Kennard, Casillas, Thomas, Collins, Unga, Whitlock. Folks wanted to dismiss the talent level before they even got on the field. These guys are pretty good players. It may be a bunch of pretty good guys rather than a couple of superstars but that works.
As individuals I'm not sure they are, but as a team very much so.
Really? Wynn doesn't do it for you? The #4 DL in the league in tackles and clearly a stud against the run. Kennard is playing Pro Bowl level. Richburg and Flowers, aren't major upgrages? Casillas and Thomas don't make plays? Vereen isn't a big addition? Don't get why it's not the guys making the plays that matter.
Bill, your saying that now looking back. On that list, outside of Vereen, who excited you? The rest are looking good now, but we had no idea what we were getting and in many instances still aren't sure.
So i would grade
Spags A - dealt with little talent and these guys play hard
TC B- ( game and clock management cost games )
Mc B- Odell needs to get the ball more
The Dallas victory was in the bag. It was an epic screw up by Coughlin and then he compounded it by implying others were to blame. TC's worst moment as a Giant coach imo.
I know the players change - but when staff settles in to a routine for along period of time, stagnation tends to follow.
I've found it hard to comprehend some of the games in the TC era. There are times where you can't imagine a good result, and they come out fighting and surprise you. They've typically been good when everything is against them, which is unusual - most teams tend to collapse under that pressure.
At the same time, we've had letdowns that are simply inexplicable. The game to close out Giants Stadium, with the playoffs on the line and a Matt Moore led Carolina. Just no possible way the Giants can lose, and they come out and lay an egg the likes of which I still can't get out of my mind. Sometimes, it's hard to believe it's the same coaching staff.
Like Eli, I'll take the good with the bad, and I'll always be grateful they were here.
Is playing not to lose a better strategy? Perhaps. The argument can be made either way.
Quit crying about the two lost games; it's over. So get over it.
That his decision making could possibly indicate he has senility.
I'm not making this up.
You know the drill. All it takes is a couple of bad games in a row and sound reasoning often vanishes around here. When has it ever been different?
Is playing not to lose a better strategy? Perhaps. The argument can be made either way.
Quit crying about the two lost games; it's over. So get over it.
This is the bizarre thing about the first 4 weeks here. The dallas game was play not to lose strategy. Kicking the FG was anything but going for the jugular. Similarly went conservative with ATL.
Now because of those fuck ups, we're going for the jugular in DC and BUFF at will but both those games, had we gone conservative like the math warranted we do, we'd have won without all the anxiety.
Bottom line, the staff needs to get coherent on this stuff because fortunately it only cost us 2 games and not 4.
All that said, the players are playing great and TC and staff deserve credit for getting them ready and putting them in a position to win every week.
On Defense, however, it was both. Fewell was clueless, and the personnel was lacking.
There you said it yourself...You weren't sure how good they were...Again, outside of Vereen no one was excited about those guys. When JPP went out people thought we were screwed, they complained we had no safeties, etc...in the off season very few looked at this roster and were happy.
Putting aside the clouded judgment at end of games, I don't think many Giant fans would be unhappy at 2-2, and things looking up with O-line and run defense.
Now lets see if they can figure out how to cover a TE every now and then, get a few sacks on 3rd down, and get WRs going a bit more.
Then we really have something...
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of Coughlin's mentality. He would rather take the chance of keeping the pressure on and "go for the jugular" than play "not to lose".
Is playing not to lose a better strategy? Perhaps. The argument can be made either way.
Quit crying about the two lost games; it's over. So get over it.
This is the bizarre thing about the first 4 weeks here. The dallas game was play not to lose strategy. Kicking the FG was anything but going for the jugular. Similarly went conservative with ATL.
Now because of those fuck ups, we're going for the jugular in DC and BUFF at will but both those games, had we gone conservative like the math warranted we do, we'd have won without all the anxiety.
Bottom line, the staff needs to get coherent on this stuff because fortunately it only cost us 2 games and not 4.
All that said, the players are playing great and TC and staff deserve credit for getting them ready and putting them in a position to win every week.
great post
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In the offseason I said that we had a number of 2nd year players that had good potential. Wynn, Bromley, Williams, Kennard, Richburg. I thought the FA crop had potential beyond Vereen with Harris and Thomas. I made the point we were getting a number of injured players like, Jennings, Schwartz, Jenkins, Beason, Prince and McBride. I wasn't sure how good they were but they deserved to show what they had and not be dismissed out of hand.
There you said it yourself...You weren't sure how good they were...Again, outside of Vereen no one was excited about those guys. When JPP went out people thought we were screwed, they complained we had no safeties, etc...in the off season very few looked at this roster and were happy.
I said I though we had competitive talent and enough talent to put together a winning record. Isn't that enough. And I thought we had enough talent to survive the JPP loss. So far so good.
A few more afternoons like Sunday's, and I'm a happy fan.
The "never quit" attitude is there too. These coaches have so far gotten this group excited and ready to give 100%.
That's all I ask for on game day. Give your best effort all game.
2) It is important to note that the Giants have been in every game and played hard in every game. Yes, there were gaffes at the end of 2 games. Some was coaching, but most was on the players, in my opinion.
3) Spags deserves a lot of credit for the run defense. But, he is not above reproach for the pass defense.
3) McAdoo, overall, has done a nice job. I think he can do a little better calling plays and milking the clock later in games.
4) I, for one, never called Coughlin senile, nor did I call for his job. I think the fact that the Giants came out and played hard against Atlanta and then against Washington, after 2 tough to swallow losses to open the season says a lot about Coughlin and his staff. First, they were prepared each week. Second, they still have the players practicing and playing hard. A lot of teams could easily have folded. The Giants responded well, enabling them to get back in the mix. I still get angry that we threw away 2 games being handed to us, where we could easily have been 3-1 or 4-0 and in control of the division. But, the fact that we battled back to get back to where we are still says a lot about this team. Plus, who knows if we win against Washington and/or Buffalo if we won the first two?
The Dallas game was truly an epic fuck up in a big spot. There's absolutely no denying that. On the other hand, even after the 0-6 start a couple of seasons ago, you never got the feeling that the team just mailed it in. It also looks like Spags is coaching up the D pretty well.
The Giants are in a good position in the NFC East thanks to Dallas' injury issues and the implosion of Chippyball in Philly but I'm mostly hoping that the coaches don't fuck this up again like in Week 1.
Spags has the players swarming to the ball, not just standing around if they're not directly involved (big positive change)
Not giving up big plays; only one, that I recall was Julio Jones
Defense looks very lost against hurry-up (two minute drill); need a lot of work
Offense - Good/Bad
Surprisingly good line play, especially pass protection
Starting to show good rhythm; great mix of pass to open up run
Need to see a lot more of Shane Vereen & OBJ; basically, what I'm saying, control offense is good, but wan to see a lot more down-the-field big play offense.
Has it been perfect? No. Can it be perfect? No. Coaches make mistakes too. I'm very impressed so far.
But when you look around the league in the 4th quarter.. It would appear the alcohol they stop selling to fans in the stands at halftime, has been diverted to coaching staffs in the second half. There have been so many mindnumbingly dumb decisions leaguewide at the end of games so far this year.
It's kinda strange actually, I don't remember it being **this** bad in year's past leaguewide
Seattle was able to do that because GB stopped running its offense to do exactly what you clock management experts say should be done- run the ball and play the clock.
You are seeing teams with the lead continue to run their offense much deeper into the 4th quarter to get td's. The days when teams sit on the lead outside the two minute warning are gone.
So, with the lead and outside of 3 minutes, we were running our offense: Eli checked out of a running play to throw to Beckham 1 on 1 and we tried throwing the slant that we had scored with earlier to try and go up by 3 td's. You guys can bitch all you want, but that's the way its played all over the League now. Nobody wants to be the next victim of a Seattle-GB type comeback.
This more than clock management, it is game management, and this regime should know and do better.
Kudos on coaching to Spags--we are looking at a totally revamped defense in feel, aggression, positioning, and containment, TEs over the middle and otherwise running free excepted. Same with STs, and that may have to do with improved personnel. On offense, Eli is holding the ball too long, is intermittently accurate, and WRs are usually covered. We're mis-using--under-using Vereen--and the lack of a quality TE in this offense is absolutely unforgiveable.
That his decision making could possibly indicate he has senility.
I'm not making this up.
And some normally solid long time posters, effectively declared the season over after an 0-2 start
The HC and OC? Not so much.