NFT: Where is Matt Harvey?

In comment 12534990 Torrag said:

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You buy out the risk of getting injured and never getting to your payday. You and your family are setup for life.

Insurance mitigates that. Even college players get it. Dickey turned down that $1 million payout a decade ago when they found his arm issue.

And although not popular here I would like them to try and work out something with Murphy. He is arguably their best pure hitter, can play 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and important insurance for DW next season.

In comment 12535075 steve in ky said:

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And although not popular here I would like them to try and work out something with Murphy. He is arguably their best pure hitter, can play 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and important insurance for DW next season.

I would work something out with Murphy, but it ideally would be less than the QO, which scares me. Offering Murphy 16.5M seems asinine regardless of what fangraphs says he's worth and despite the fact no player in history has yet to accept the QO. I feel like you should be able to replace Murphy with a pre-arb guy like Herrera for a fraction of the price and better all around production.

If Murphy signs a 2 year 16M deal or 3 year 20M deal to be a utility guy I'd be ok. more money than the QO, but spread over a few years.

In comment 12534967 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12534959 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12534930 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time. Huh? Matz is 24, Thor is 23. Matz is a whopping 15 months older than Thor Well first I just excluded Thor. Matz still has 5-6 years of control left. Not sure why your not making the connection. DeGrom will be 32!

The point is they are close in age. Yes, Thor has had his clock start sooner than Matz. But most pitchers don't start until their early 20's, so all of them would be "too old" for long term deals by the time they are FA.

As others have said - you buy out the arbitration/FA years for a long term deal.

He is a one tool player and his head is a negative tool. So that makes him a no tool player in my book. Time to move on. Flores and herrera can battle it out there.

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Herrera for a fraction of the price and better all around production.

I am not convinced you get that from him next season and I don't want them sacrificing offense while they have the pitching staff to win championships. Two years ago absolutely but I think Herrera is still a real gamble at this point. If he doesn't preform close to Murphy's level and DW again goes down for any length of time they are going backwards at the wrong point in time for the franchise.

In comment 12535097 speedywheels said:

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In comment 12534967 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12534959 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12534930 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time. Huh? Matz is 24, Thor is 23. Matz is a whopping 15 months older than Thor Well first I just excluded Thor. Matz still has 5-6 years of control left. Not sure why your not making the connection. DeGrom will be 32! The point is they are close in age. Yes, Thor has had his clock start sooner than Matz. But most pitchers don't start until their early 20's, so all of them would be "too old" for long term deals by the time they are FA. As others have said - you buy out the arbitration/FA years for a long term deal.

It's the long term deal part that's off. Pj is suggesting buying up all the arbitration years in return for 1single option year like we did with Lagares. Something like that MAY happen but it's highly unlikely a pitcher of Thors caliber is going to extend out 2-4 years like some of you seem to be insinuating.

offering Murphy is an absolute no brainer to me. MLbtraderumors actually echoed that sentiment yesterday as well.

In comment 12535173 ZGiants98 said:

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It's the long term deal part that's off. Pj is suggesting buying up all the arbitration years in return for 1single option year like we did with Lagares. Something like that MAY happen but it's highly unlikely a pitcher of Thors caliber is going to extend out 2-4 years like some of you seem to be insinuating.

Extensions happen all the time.

I think he turns it down but the money aspect doesn't bother me. Most of the team is young, controlled, and cost effective. I don't think having Murphy around for 16 million prohibits them from anything else. Parnell, Gee, Col�n are coming off the books. I believe we can make respectable offers to Cespedes, decide on a bullpen or bench piece or two and offer the QO to Murphy without batting an eye so I don't support the idea that his money can be better spent elsewhere. If probably wouldn't be spent at all. All that said, I'm ready for Herrera to be my 2B and I do think Murphy turns it down and we recoup a 1st round pick but if accepted if be ok with that too.

any of the arbitration/FA buyouts I referenced and the ones I mentioned would make sense for the Mets would contain any more than two FA years. They'll be lucky with 1 (and I'd be fine with 1).

Geesh.

In comment 12535190 pjcas18 said:

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any of the arbitration/FA buyouts I referenced and the ones I mentioned would make sense for the Mets would contain any more than two FA years. They'll be lucky with 1 (and I'd be fine with 1).

One's possible. Unlikely, but possible. Especially for somebody like Thor, like I said originally.

but Verlander did it, Felix Hernandez did it, and other aces did it, so it's not out of the question.

The premier 2B FA this year. We are too close to the situation. He has very good numbers and is a 2.5-3 WAR player in his prime. He will absolutely have suitors.

MLB as a 19 year old. That is the opposite of the type of player I'm referring to.

So also a couple years younger than Matz, deGrom, and Harvey.

In comment 12535210 ZGiants98 said:

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So also a couple years younger than Matz, deGrom, and Harvey.

but you said thor wouldn't do it because he was so young, so I name Felix Hernandez and Verlander who did and were as young or younger than Thor and you compare them to Matz deGrom and Harvey?

makes complete sense.

In comment 12535214 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 12535210 ZGiants98 said: Quote: So also a couple years younger than Matz, deGrom, and Harvey. but you said thor wouldn't do it because he was so young, so I name Felix Hernandez and Verlander who did and were as young or younger than Thor and you compare them to Matz deGrom and Harvey? makes complete sense.

Huh? From the beginning I said Syndergaard is the one player that MAY do it because he's young. I said it's harder to do in guys like deGrom, Harvey, and Matz who will be in their 30s when they first hit free agency. Clearly you haven't been following me or we got off somewhere.

I misread this to be saying you thought thor wouldn't do it.

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One's possible. Unlikely, but possible. Especially for somebody like Thor, like I said originally.

meaning it's unlikely

:)

His baseball IQ is nil. Poor glove and decision maker in the field. Slow and clueless on the basepaths. We have a couple solid young options at 2B. It's their turn to get a shot.

and also a superb contact hitter who is allergic to K's and fond of big hits at big moments. Ideally we see some of those in these games. If we can upgrade fine...but right now he's likely the guy we want up with men in scoring position more than anyone else on the team. He's also a non-stop hustle player. Can't run and doesn't know much how to, but he won't ever dog it. Probably a damn good clubhouse guy too.

This is pretty nutty

Those stats show why. Our advantage is on the mound in Game 3.

because the Dodgers 3-5 starters suck. Their top 2 are SO good they compensate for the other three's mediocrity and are still dead even.

In comment 12535652 ZGiants98 said:

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because the Dodgers 3-5 starters suck. Their top 2 are SO good they compensate for the other three's mediocrity and are still dead even.

Alex Wood and Brett Anderson do not suck. Wood is a 24 year old lefty with a career ERA of 3.30. Anderson finally stayed healthy this season and had a solid year for LA. Are they aces? Absolutely not but they are both good starting LHP's.

Wood actually had a better WHIP and a better H/9 and SO/9 numbers than Anderson. And yet Anderson pitches game 3 against Harvey. Interesting.

In comment 12535692 moespree said:

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Wood actually had a better WHIP and a better H/9 and SO/9 numbers than Anderson. And yet Anderson pitches game 3 against Harvey. Interesting.

I am still surprised that Atlanta included him in the package for Olivera. They are in full rebuild mode and although they are loaded with pitching prospects Wood was still one of the better young LHP's in the game. I heard there were durability concerns with Wood but it seems like Atlanta paid a high price in that deal.

If DeGrom is beaten in Game 1 relying on a rookie with really bad road/home splits in game 2 is just asking for trouble. That's an extremely pressurized and hostile environment to ask Noah to go out and harness his best game with his limited experience. It would for all intents and purposes be a must win game.

It should be Harvey getting the ball in game 2 and Noah at home for game 3 where he has pitched magnificently.

In comment 12535751 Torrag said:

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If DeGrom is beaten in Game 1 relying on a rookie with really bad road/home splits in game 2 is just asking for trouble. That's an extremely pressurized and hostile environment to ask Noah to go out and harness his best game with his limited experience. It would for all intents and purposes be a must win game. It should be Harvey getting the ball in game 2 and Noah at home for game 3 where he has pitched magnificently.

I think they pushed Harvey to the third start because they know they wouldn't ask and he likely wouldn't be willing to go on short rest if need be to pitch twice in the same series.

It has to be game 3. It's done in case you need to bring deGrom back on short rest for game 4. If Harvey pitches game 2 and you bring deGrom back on short rest for game 4 then who pitches game 5?

He's getting Game 4. DeGrom comes back for Game 5. IMO DeGrom.harvey/Thor/Matz/DeGrom is the optimal pitching setup for this series. If we go down 0-2 it's over anyway.

They probably will go to deGrom on 3 days rest. Because of the travel off day the next day Noah would actually be on full rest for game 5 in that scenario. It's because Harvey will only pitch once in the series they have to guard against the possibility of bringing deGrom back on short rest. If this was not the case then I suspect Harvey would be the game 2 starter.

I like our chances of getting the split a lot better with Harvey going in game 2. Noah still gives us a clear advantage in Game 3. It's a more aggressive rotation and that's how I'd play it. To win.

teams have won the first games up to now, hopefully the mets can continue that trend.

Road games. All four of these pitchers are green as grass and have never pitched in a postseason before. People forget Harvey and DeGrom just completed their first full season. Any could implode or be awesome. We have no clue. Syndergaard was our best pitcher down the stretch IMO.

Harvey in game 3 is perfect. How many teams can pitch that caliber pitcher in the pivotal game of any 5 game series? It's not like either starter for the first 2 games is a weak link. There's no reason to believe that they both can't go out there and dominate, and then Citi for game 3 with Harv on the mound while the stadium is shaking. I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I actually prefer Harv in game 3 because if godforbid we lose the first 2, there isn't a pitcher I'd prefer on the mound for that game.

Of this guy (although compared to Phil Mushnick he's a genius) but this article is refreshing to read. The media in this city are a disgrace nearly all of the time, as they relish every chance to selfishly push their agenda and magnify every small issue into a huge deal. The Harvey workout thing is another example. He screwed up like an ass. Then told everyone he screwed up like an ass and apologized. Yet they can't get past the story because it gives them bullshit to obsess over instead of actually being interesting. Nice to see a member of the media tell the truth about how full of shit they are.
Raissman - ( New Window )

And it's oh so true.

Having Harvey in Game 3 is huge. We lose nothing with Syndergaard pitching in Game 2. I actually think at this point Syndergaard is the MOST likely to pitch an absolute gem.

Except the game is he struggles pitching his first post season game.

While it's true Harvey is just finishing his 'first full season' ...it's misleading to compare Harvey's level of experience to Noah's. It's ths kind of thing fans without objectivity might point out to support an obviously false argument. If they were so inclined.

is a diva. I don't think it's just a couple of isolated incidents, but his general attitude seems to be what's turned some people in the Mets organization off. I think the whole "Innings Pitched saga" was probably overblown by the NYC media, but I told you guys a while back even before that story that I knew someone in the Mets organization and they basically all think Harvey is a major asshole even by baseball player standards. He's an uber-confident young NYC athlete that knows how good he is and is trying to squeeze every bit of fun out of his mid20s. Understandable, and our boy Odell is kind of showing some similar diva-like signs (although Odell seems to be smarter/polished than Harvey from what I've seen). But he's a professional athlete and clearly still needs to grow up a bit.

That being said, I'm sure none of you guys will care if Harvey kills it and helps carry you guys to a World Series title. Syndergaard's heat/age might make him the #1 starter to build around on the team. DeGrom is just filthy and has been your best pitcher this year. But I still think Harvey has the highest ceiling of any pitcher on your team right now and is the guy with the best chance of performing like a true Ace in the post-season.

I won't be rooting for you guys outside of a World Series vs. Toronto, but I definitely think you guys have a real chance if that Big 3 of Harvey/DeGrom/Syndergaard bring their best with the season on the line.

has in the postseason again? Explain to me why Game 3 is any LESS important than Game 2? It isn't. Most would argue its MORE important and more pivotal but a fan that lacks objectivity who clearly can't see past his nose might argue "pitch your best two first, duh!" Nevermind Harvey can only go one game per round according to Sandy/medical people ect. and we might need our Game 2 starter to go game 5 if deGrom is forced to pitch Game 4. But to hell with that too right buddy? Fuck Harvey. Fuck him hard!

In comment 12535678 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 12535652 ZGiants98 said: Quote: because the Dodgers 3-5 starters suck. Their top 2 are SO good they compensate for the other three's mediocrity and are still dead even. Alex Wood and Brett Anderson do not suck. Wood is a 24 year old lefty with a career ERA of 3.30. Anderson finally stayed healthy this season and had a solid year for LA. Are they aces? Absolutely not but they are both good starting LHP's.

Jay you are talking about two guys with an FIP north of 4. In terms of playoff starters, they suck. It would be like starting Jon Niese in games 3 and 4 in the series of our lives. In broader terms, they are probably fine as back end starters but certainly not in a crucial playoff series.

I have seen Wood pitch numerous times and he is a damn fine young pitcher, This season he struggled in the beginning but he came on later in the year. If Wood was on the Mets I am sure we would hear you raving about him. His numbers thus far are better than Wheeler as he has a better career ERA and WHIP despite being a year younger. He also played on a poor team in Atlanta for his first 2+ years.

He may have potential but he hasn't put it together yet and the fact that he's in his 3rd season makes the analogy to Wheeler a poor one. You can't possibly be saying the drop off from Kershaw and Greinke to Anderson and Wood isn't like driving a car off the Himalayas.

...and could potentially handle the pressure of a must win Game 2 scenario better then there is no hope for you. If you prefer the rotation as it is I get it, thats your opinion. But to act as if there is no validity to other opinions is the typical response we all expect from you in most Mets discussions. Either way the rotation is set and it's time to play our first playoff series in nearly a decade. Let's Go Mets!

In comment 12536566 ZGiants98 said:

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He may have potential but he hasn't put it together yet and the fact that he's in his 3rd season makes the analogy to Wheeler a poor one. You can't possibly be saying the drop off from Kershaw and Greinke to Anderson and Wood isn't like driving a car off the Himalayas.

I never compared either of them to Kershaw and Greinke that would be absurd. I was just saying they don't suck. You are right that Wood hasn't reached his potential yet but you have to admit he has pitched very well for such a young player. Why is the analogy to Wheeler such a poor one? He has only started 67 games thus far. Keep in mind that Wood was promoted to the majors despite pitching only 33 games in the minors. The guy only pitched 10 games at AA and one in AAA. I am not debating which pitcher has more potential I was just stating that Wood has been more impressive thus far and he is a fine young LHP. You should be happy Atlanta traded him away.