NFT: Where is Matt Harvey?

Hopefully much smaller ones.

is going to run with this like everything Harvey

He's a big boy. He can handle it. It will be amusing when he's asked about it and he gets pissy.

For a guy who claims to idolize Jeter, he should really study how Jeter operated off the field. He's doing it wrong. Jeter was a Navy SEAL. Nobody ever saw him do anything until the Gift Baskets story broke.

and he should have been at practice, but it's probably not as big a deal as the media will make it.

You mean HARRRRRRRRRVY, Harvy. Harvy is a nice name.

He's that good.

BUT..

He's f*cking it all up.

much ado

How the rest of the players and coaches managed to avoid being late due to traffic.

In comment 12530273 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

is going to run with this like everything Harvey

Why shouldn't they run with it?? The other 24 guys (and coaching staff) managed to make it on time...

he'll be back soon.

Run downstairs and tell Harvey to come back. Hey Harvey! Oh Harvey!

The guy who is all about team, the players player you mean. What a fucking joke. I wish him well, but do you think he could have waited until the playoffs are done with for the Yanks, which will probably be one fucking game anyway!

his chances of having a good start in Game 3? If not, who cares?

..

he wasn't found lying in a ditch in a pool of his own vomit. He's way too cool for that.

Talk about going from hero to zero.....

The dude doesn't get it.

In comment 12530336 PaulN said:

Quote:

The guy who is all about team, the players player you mean. What a fucking joke. I wish him well, but do you think he could have waited until the playoffs are done with for the Yanks, which will probably be one fucking game anyway!

I'm calling the PC police on you. CC is a HERO for going on a bender at the end of the regular season missing the playoff's to go to rehab. A fucking HERO and don't you question it!

"seething"


Asked about his level of disappointment about Harvey's absence, captain David Wright said: "You have to ask Matt. I'm concerned about the guys that are here. The guys that are here, we had a great workout. You'll have to talk to Matt about that. We're rolling. We're clicking. Guys came in today, took care of business, did what they need to do to prepare for Friday. I'm happy with that. I thought it was a good workout. You can only worry about what you can control. We had everybody else here. I thought everything went great."

when they clinched.

Now he can't get out of his own way. Good couple of weeks for Hovvey.

I care about his performance on the field but this is becoming a pattern of Harvey bringing attention to himself. Not really fair to turn this into "blame the media" everyone else was on time. Wright is unhappy, Harvey screwed up.

Adam Rubin ‏@AdamRubinESPN 56m56 minutes ago
Matt Harvey is here. Will make statement. Won't take questions.

Adam Rubin ‏@AdamRubinESPN 54m54 minutes ago
"I screwed up," Matt Harvey said, without elaborating.

and then let his arm fall off for the next GM that stupidly signs him to that long, expensive contract.

I'm over Harvey. The dude will never learn and thinks he's bigger than the game.

I don't believe for a second that this is a stupid person. In fact just the opposite. I think Harvey is quite intelligent. But I just do not understand how he can continue to put himself in bad situations. He has to know and see how things like this and the dumb fiasco with the innings limit will be taken and perceived. I don't get him.

Anyone that thinks this is a media creation is absolutely out of their mind.
Anyone downplaying the significance of this, is completely missing the real issue.

Adam Rubin ‏@AdamRubinESPN 3m3 minutes ago
Terry Collins says Matt Harvey will be fined. Still pitching Game 3 obviously. This isn't college football, TC notes.

I enjoy that he actually went with "stuck in traffic" though. Blue collar effort.

football last night. He couldn't get up in time this morning and was hung over. Surprised it's not picked up by the media yet.

Sure, sure. It was The Tunnel.

In comment 12530432 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

and then let his arm fall off for the next GM that stupidly signs him to that long, expensive contract. I'm over Harvey. The dude will never learn and thinks he's bigger than the game.

I don't disagree, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Alderson listened to offers this winter. I'd rather get back a nice bounty and move him.

In comment 12530494 B in ALB said:

Quote:

football last night. He couldn't get up in time this morning and was hung over. Surprised it's not picked up by the media yet. Sure, sure. It was The Tunnel.

Judging by his ever increasing gut and triple chins, he must do this often.

fine to me when he struck out 11 Nationals over 6 innings in his last start.

In comment 12530434 moespree said:

Quote:

I don't believe for a second that this is a stupid person. In fact just the opposite. I think Harvey is quite intelligent. But I just do not understand how he can continue to put himself in bad situations. He has to know and see how things like this and the dumb fiasco with the innings limit will be taken and perceived. I don't get him.

I'm curious...what gives you the impression that he's "quite intelligent"? I don't get that at all. Now, I don't think he's stupid but nothing he has ever done or said makes me think that he's "quite intelligent." And quite intelligent people don't normally put themselves in bad situations over and over again.

In comment 12530504 Funkhouser said:

Quote:

In comment 12530494 B in ALB said: Quote: football last night. He couldn't get up in time this morning and was hung over. Surprised it's not picked up by the media yet. Sure, sure. It was The Tunnel. Judging by his ever increasing gut and triple chins, he must do this often.

Ha, the Fat Knight!

It doesn't really seem like that's the case though.

In comment 12530336 PaulN said:

Quote:

The guy who is all about team, the players player you mean. What a fucking joke. I wish him well, but do you think he could have waited until the playoffs are done with for the Yanks, which will probably be one fucking game anyway!

Why should he? If this is legit timing, then I see nothing wrong with it. It is no different than taking care of an illness. This is his life, which is a Hell of a lot larger than baseball.

see Colon, CC, Wells, etc.

But I have also noticed that Harvey's face seems to be getting chubbier, could be nothing.

I'm interested to see what comes of Harvey's career with the Mets or elsewhere. For now, he seems like a talented asshole.

He said David Wright was livid. Said the PC things but looked completely pissed off. Harvey met the press, just said he "screwed up".

He seems to be an asshole. The kind of guy you put up with while he is dominating, but would have a short leash with when the electric stuff becomes just ordinary.

Harvey must drink a lot, his face and body is getting noticeably heavier.

BTW, some guys are getting raises next season

these are all arb estimates

Let him prove his health and post a stellar campaign then move him after next season at peak value. He won't be signable when he gets to free agency anyway. Kill two birds with one stone by relieveing yourself of a chronic headache and getting max return for him.

Harvey had practice from 12:00PM to 2:00PM but called a full half hour before practice even started(11:30AM) to let the team know he was stuck in traffic and when he was told not to even bother coming, he came anyway and took full ownership for his mistake(something nobody predicted). Didn't make a single excuse. How many times has anything like this ever happened? Oh right... never. But because of the innings limits and him pitching past them anyway and fucking his agent over and all that make believe drama there is a correlation of course. LOL.

Should he have never missed a practice in his life? Yes. Do accidents happen? Yes. Does this have anything to do with innings limit drama? No.

it matters, so other people will too.

The only part of it that even remotely makes me think twice is that Wright was upset which I don't like.

However, when the Wright was seething comments came out, Harvey wasn't even there yet. According to Collins, Harvey apologized to his teammates, took full responsibility, and its now a non-issue. For all we know they are completely fine now. In fact they LIKELY are.

In comment 12531240 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Harvey had practice from 12:00PM to 2:00PM but called a full half hour before practice even started(11:30AM) to let the team know he was stuck in traffic and when he was told not to even bother coming, he came anyway and took full ownership for his mistake(something nobody predicted). Didn't make a single excuse. How many times has anything like this ever happened? Oh right... never. But because of the innings limits and him pitching past them anyway and fucking his agent over and all that make believe drama there is a correlation of course. LOL. Should he have never missed a practice in his life? Yes. Do accidents happen? Yes. Does this have anything to do with innings limit drama? No.

Well, we must be reading different reports because I read that at 12:30, Harvey didn't even realize what time it was. But it really doesn't matter anyway. Is it that big of a deal? Maybe not. Was it that big of a deal to David Wright and the rest of the team? You bet it was.

This has more to do with respect, commitment, and dedication than anything else. You may like his "grit" and "fire" he brings (as do I) but I believe that you can still be that type of person without being a raging asshole that walks and talks like he's bigger than the game while accomplishing absolutely nothing yet.

Yes, accidents happen. But people also learn from them. Harvey doesn't. And that bothers me. Abuse the hell out of his arm the next few years and then dump him. Preferably in Seattle.

Quote:

The dog ate his homework. Matt Harvey missed a mandatory Mets workout on Tuesday, claiming in a message conveyed to pitching coach Dan Warthen he was stuck in tunnel traffic on his way to Citi Field. But whether it was traffic or just sheer negligence on the right-hander�s part is unclear: Harvey later arrived at the ballpark, and according to Terry Collins, told the manager: �I screwed up. I was doing some things, and the next thing I knew I looked up and it was 1:00.� Collins told The Post he never followed up with Harvey to ask if the traffic explanation, which the manager says Warthen had received around 11:45 a.m., was true. The Mets workout ran from noon to 2 p.m., and Harvey arrived around the time it concluded. He apologized to teammates before throwing in the bullpen.

Matt Harvey misses Mets workout, can�t get alibi straight - ( New Window )

Is it he called at 11:45 A.M. to let everyone know he was going to be late because he was stuck in traffic?

Or is it �I screwed up. I was doing some things, and the next thing I knew I looked up and it was 1:00�?

In comment 12531313 moespree said:

Quote:

Is it he called at 11:45 A.M. to let everyone know he was going to be late because he was stuck in traffic? Or is it �I screwed up. I was doing some things, and the next thing I knew I looked up and it was 1:00�?

I think that's the point. Sounds like he isn't even being completely straight with them.

Everyone else had no problems getting there.

I don't know what it is with this guy. He's just allergic to making good decisions. All I view him as is a hired gun. No attachment to him whatsoever.

Harvey has "fall from grace" written all over him.

whatsoever of missing practices, being late, ect. this would certainly be alarming. However 162 games in a year and I don't know how many spring training games and practices, ect and this has never happened once. Been to every single one on time and was even early back in spring training to report.

Just seems people are just waiting to kill him. He should have been there no doubt but if this happened to anybody else on the team and it was their first offense it would be a non-issue. Hell, I think this is too but thats just me. All I care about is how Harvey looks next Monday.

Maybe he should get Parnell to throw away Harv's lunch.

I do think the Wright/Harvey dynamic bears some watching in the years to come. I certainly don't get the impression there's much of a relationship there at all.

isnt the first met to miss practice. Just happens at the wrong time esp after the while innings limit fiasco.

...you don't just dismiss other developments that have swirled around him. He knows he is in the spotlight and there couldn't be a worse time for him to have yet another incident occur. He deserves the negative press and response he's getting. It's a good thing he has a million dollar arm because as his career unfolds it appears he may have a ten cent head.

In comment 12531421 sshin05 said:

Quote:

isnt the first met to miss practice. Just happens at the wrong time esp after the while innings limit fiasco.

Exactly. Lousy timing. Zero correlation to it however.

of Harvey making bad decisions. It's not. But you are obviously free to feel the way you do. All I know is that if i were under as much heat as he is, I'm sure as shit not going to "forget what time it is" for the first practice of the biggest series of his life. It speaks to his character.

You may like to simplify this as "hey, he was just late to a meeting out of hundreds of meetings...no biggie" but it's not that simple. Otherwise it wouldn't be a story.

In comment 12531421 sshin05 said:

Quote:

isnt the first met to miss practice. Just happens at the wrong time esp after the while innings limit fiasco.

Again, it's nice to oversimplify things to support your point.

This is just another fuck up in a long line of poor decisions. Not to biggest deal on its own...but it certainly doesn't show that he learns anything nor does he really give a fuck.

I really don't know. There's the innings limit nonsense which he clearly is going against anyway and.... ??

he got fat?

As stupid as that'd be it's better than not knowing what time it is. Jesus. This is a 26 year old man who is a professional athlete. I can't even fathom how it's possible to be a pro athlete and have a mandatory workout scheduled by your professional sports franchise employer and not know what time it is. I mean this isn't some Joe Schmo forgetting he had a dentist appointment today.

every single person on BBI has been late to work or something once in their life and said they were stuck in traffic or lost track of time, overslept, ect. If it was a pattern it would certainly be alarming, but one isolated instance out of hundreds of chances?

but I guess you can downplay that season long charade also. His constant battle with the media, his middle finger pic, etc. All these things, while not that bad on their own, they all add up and just continue to happen. Like I said, it just points to his character or lack there of. He doesn't learn from his mistakes. I couldn't give a fuck that he was late to a meeting. What bugs me is that he should have known better than to "forget what time it was" on the first day of preparing for the biggest series of his life. This isn't some spring training practice we are talking about. I know you disagree. That's fine, but I do to have to like it.

Every single person on BBI doesn't play professional baseball for a living. And more importantly than that every other person on that team managed to not get stuck in traffic and/or not lose track of the time. That's incredibly amazing. And by the way have you settled on which of those two excuses from Harvey you believe?

In comment 12531457 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

every single person on BBI has been late to work or something once in their life and said they were stuck in traffic or lost track of time, overslept, ect. If it was a pattern it would certainly be alarming, but one isolated instance out of hundreds of chances?

Good lord, whatever. You are obviously going to just defend the hell out of him so this discussion is just useless.

Yes, I have been late to work in the past. Have I ever been late to any meetings or work days when I have to prepare for big presentations? Fuck no, I get to that shit on time. Have I ever blown off meetings because I just "forgot the time"? Fuck no, I'm an adult and have respect for what I do and who I work with.

But to satisfy your point, yes, I have been late to work...even though that comparison is weak, if not completely inaccurate.

In comment 12531466 moespree said:

Quote:

Every single person on BBI doesn't play professional baseball for a living. And more importantly than that every other person on that team managed to not get stuck in traffic and/or not lose track of the time. That's incredibly amazing. And by the way have you settled on which of those two excuses from Harvey you believe?

Again. Countless Mets players have missed practices before. Its only a story because Harvey is the new media love villain.

Like I said. Im not condoning it. He should have been there. But being his only offense, I dont see the big deal. You guys want to rake him over the coals for it? Sure. Go for it.

In comment 12531470 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 12531457 ZGiants98 said: Quote: every single person on BBI has been late to work or something once in their life and said they were stuck in traffic or lost track of time, overslept, ect. If it was a pattern it would certainly be alarming, but one isolated instance out of hundreds of chances? Good lord, whatever. You are obviously going to just defend the hell out of him so this discussion is just useless. Yes, I have been late to work in the past. Have I ever been late to any meetings or work days when I have to prepare for big presentations? Fuck no, I get to that shit on time. Have I ever blown off meetings because I just "forgot the time"? Fuck no, I'm an adult and have respect for what I do and who I work with. But to satisfy your point, yes, I have been late to work...even though that comparison is weak, if not completely inaccurate.

That wasn't even a response to you. And to your earlier point, I don't know what your referring to when you say his "media battles". Since when was this? His middle finger picture was a "fuck a ligament tear, Im going to be fine" picture and he removed it that day. man. These are his worst offenses??

being late to your "study session" in preparation for your presentation. Missing the "presentation" would be him not showing up for Game 3. lol.

In comment 12531475 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 12531470 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: In comment 12531457 ZGiants98 said: Quote: every single person on BBI has been late to work or something once in their life and said they were stuck in traffic or lost track of time, overslept, ect. If it was a pattern it would certainly be alarming, but one isolated instance out of hundreds of chances? Good lord, whatever. You are obviously going to just defend the hell out of him so this discussion is just useless. Yes, I have been late to work in the past. Have I ever been late to any meetings or work days when I have to prepare for big presentations? Fuck no, I get to that shit on time. Have I ever blown off meetings because I just "forgot the time"? Fuck no, I'm an adult and have respect for what I do and who I work with. But to satisfy your point, yes, I have been late to work...even though that comparison is weak, if not completely inaccurate. That wasn't even a response to you. And to your earlier point, I don't know what your referring to when you say his "media battles". Since when was this? His middle finger picture was a "fuck a ligament tear, Im going to be fine" picture and he removed it that day. man. These are his worst offenses??

Well, I find it hard to believe to don't know what I'm referring to with "media battles" since they were big stories and there were threads here on BBI that you specifically posted on, but whatever. I guess you can forget. And the middle finger pic...who gives a shit really. My point is that with all these instances creating heat around him, he never learns.

Listen, you can get a sudden case of amnesia and act like this is the first thing that has created controversy around Harvey...a first offense. And I can act like this is a guy that doesn't learn from his mistakes and really doesn't give a shit.

What media battles? Did he tell somebody off? Was he extremely rude with somebody Im unaware of? Rubin? Sherman?? Im imagining that would have been pretty big news. There would definitely be an easy quote for you to find.

Its not even you Phi. I just think this is happening with a lot of people right now. People have built this huge case up against Harvey and Im not seeing it. The innings cap lasted a whole 24 hours and he immediately rectified it and anyone with a brain knew a cap of some sort was coming anyway. Boras was the culprit in making that situation worst IMO and Harvey pitched 190 innings anyway and is now pitching in the postseason.

In my personal opinion, this goes back to his Dark Knight video when he said he grew up a Yankee fan and didn't answer distinctly that he wanted to remain a Met in 4 years and may test free agency. People were done with Harvey that very moment which is ridiculous IMO.

In 3 years now, what has he done?

1.) Took a picture on drugs with a surgery cap on as he was about to go into Tommy John surgery saying he would beat Tommy John and immediately removed it.

2.) Backed his agent for a brief moment and immediately clarified in the players tribune that he would pitch in the postseason no matter what in less than 12 hours.

3.) Missed once single practice.

That's the quite laundry list of fuck ups....

it doesnt matter what fans think, more important is what his teammates think. If he goes out next season and pitches lights out, fans will be giving him a standing ovation start after start and think about how much money the team needs to shell to keep him.

Not trying to argue you. Im really just curious. I see a lot of people citing all these instances and I guess I just don't see them.

Im ready to get ready for the Dodgers.

Who's starting against Kershaw? Tejada or Flores?? That's what I want to know. ;)

I still think you are oversimplifying things.

The innings limit issue didn't last for just "24 hours" or back is agent for a "brief moment." The innings limit issue lasted for almost two months and only after two awful interviews (post Boras comments) did he clarify in the Players Tribune as some weak form of damage control that most fans saw right through.

I won't get into his battles or snarkyness with the media. I still have a hard time believing that are lost on this since you posted in those threads but if you are so curious, I'm sure you can google them.

Its funny you mention the Dark Knight video. It's funny because my view towards Harvey changed after watching that video and I don't think it's ridiculous at all. It goes deeper than Harvey just saying that he was a Yankee fan and purposely stayed away from saying that he would like to remain a Met after FA. It's the way he came across. It's him demanding $2 mill coming out of HS and "wouldn't sign for a penny less" type of entitled attitude that turned me off. At that point, on top of his other comments, his very public yearn to be a NYC starlet, that fact that he's a walking billboard...just turns me off. On a list of 5, it goes - money, money, money, fame, baseball. And it just doesn't endear him to me.

Sick talent and I'm glad he's pitching for the Mets. But he's easily the least likable player on this team. However, I can understand why people may not agree with me. That's just how I feel.

Most of my Mets fan friends see it this way as well. There are a fair share of in denial, bury their heads in the sand ostrich fans too. Harvey's true colors are revealed for all those who want to see him for what he truly is. You can't make them see it if they refuse to.

Absolutely.
But
This team has desperately needed an asshole to lead them for a long, long time. And here we are, on the brink of the playoffs.

about something like this for more than it takes the time for me to hear it, digest it then move on? What a non story

In comment 12531566 Headhunter said:

Quote:

about something like this for more than it takes the time for me to hear it, digest it then move on? What a non story

I guess you care just enough to log on to this thread (for some reason) and spend the time to post about how you don't care? Riveting stuff there.

That is the extent of my caring. Going on record to say how meaningless this is

In comment 12531573 Headhunter said:

Quote:

That is the extent of my caring. Going on record to say how meaningless this is

HH,
This is FAR from meaningless

You must "not care" an awful lot.

To others maybe, to me nah

In comment 12531574 Shecky said:

Quote:

In comment 12531573 Headhunter said: Quote: That is the extent of my caring. Going on record to say how meaningless this is HH, This is FAR from meaningless

Not worth it, Shecky. That man-child just loves playing the contrarian. Move on and you'll be better for it.

Go fuck yourself. Who appointed you Met thread monitor? I read your daily bullshit and realize how totally clueless you are and you are only here to get into with other posters. I don't comment on your crap, you keep on shitting up these threads, your right to share your ramblings and pudding matches but don't ever fucking tell me what to do

We have the city to ourselves now, so let's not fuck this up!

I havent bothered posting in a long time. But if you are a die hard Mets fan, which I know you are, care...

In comment 12531579 Headhunter said:

Quote:

Go fuck yourself. Who appointed you Met thread monitor? I read your daily bullshit and realize how totally clueless you are and you are only here to get into with other posters. I don't comment on your crap, you keep on shitting up these threads, your right to share your ramblings and pudding matches but don't ever fucking tell me what to do

Well, that's quite an intelligent response. You literally contradict almost every point I make here so spare me about your "not commenting on my crap." You may need to read my daily bullshit on these threads but I'm subjected to your nonsensical dribble that is littered throughout this place on a daily basis...and it hurts my eyes. You are a hair away from being another chris r.

You don't like my comments? Then don't be a raging dick all the time. I have no problem talking to other people normally and cordially, so yeah, it must be me.

and I never engage you UNLESS you go over what I write. I find it easy to ignore you, you don't have anything to add. So like I ignore you, you ignore me and we wouldn't have these back and forth so. You control it, chose to engage and I'll respond every time. Ignore me and we'll get along

In comment 12531380 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

whatsoever of missing practices, being late, ect. this would certainly be alarming. However 162 games in a year and I don't know how many spring training games and practices, ect and this has never happened once. Been to every single one on time and was even early back in spring training to report. Just seems people are just waiting to kill him. He should have been there no doubt but if this happened to anybody else on the team and it was their first offense it would be a non-issue. Hell, I think this is too but thats just me. All I care about is how Harvey looks next Monday.

There's a bit of a difference being late for a practice in mid-august, and missing one prior to the biggest series of his life, but I don't expect you to acknowledge that.

I was one who thought the pitch count thing was overblown - Boras talked out of his ass, and when reporters asked Harvey about it, he unprepared, and tried to stick up for his agent. Boras threw his client under the bus.

This, however, is a much bigger deal. Sure, it's good that he apologized to the team, but what the hell was he supposed to do? He would have to be a grade A asshole not to. There is no excuse for him not to know what time it was. He wasn't late for practice, he missed practice. How many of you would think it was OK to blow off a day of work, and call after the workday was over to say "My bad!"? You wouldn't have a job for very long.

is to post on every thread in this place, but I'll do my best to tune your dribble out. Good plan. Game threads have been far better since your exit anyway. Moving on.

I think people crap on him too much. We'll keep him. If he stays healthy and we're not competing in a few years, he maybe gets traded the summer before he hits UFA, or the summer before that for a huge return. But I really expect him to be right there with the top 5 NL pitchers next season.

The man likes to party.

I usually say "let a 26 year old be a 26 year old" but now's not the time. Right now, it's all about team. The nightlife can wait until next month.

I'll care much less if he goes out and tosses a gem in game 3 but again he's putting himself in a situation where hell is going to rain down on him if he doesn't.

feels after throwing 90-95 pitches in his Instuctural League start tomorrow means something, Harvey missing a practice? Not ideal and if he was scheduled to throw a bullpen and blew that off, that would be a huge story. Him missing fielding grounders and covering first base for 20 plays isn't

singular act of missing practice, for the purpose of this discussion I'm looking at the bigger picture. And that is that Harvey doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes and gives the impression that he's bigger than the game. I'd hope he'd have more respect for team and teammates.

And for those downplaying...id say this practice was a tad more important than your typical practice, wouldn't you say? Maybe a little more than "fielding grounders" lol?

Looks like he's slipping on his cardio based on what he looks like compared to last year.

In comment 12531689 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

Looks like he's slipping on his cardio based on what he looks like compared to last year.

Lol, as long as dominates pitching, he can have as many chins as he wants lol.

CC was pretty skinny when he first started

pitches bad in Game 3 this will be thrown back at him, but until then it's just useless speculation. Does anyone really think that missing a workout is going to affect his start?

I'm more concerned about how gameplan to try and beat Kershaw, whether we're going to start Tejada/Flores, and whether DeGrom's last start was a sign that he's back to form after a sub-par September.

In comment 12531754 Metnut said:

Quote:

Does anyone really think that missing a workout is going to affect his start?

No one does.

Is it a sign of a long-term issue? That seems to be the question

In comment 12531775 schabadoo said:

Quote:

In comment 12531754 Metnut said: Quote: Does anyone really think that missing a workout is going to affect his start? No one does. Is it a sign of a long-term issue? That seems to be the question

Well, this is the first thing we agree on, lol. Feels goooood.

In comment 12531775 schabadoo said:

Quote:

In comment 12531754 Metnut said: Quote: Does anyone really think that missing a workout is going to affect his start? No one does. Is it a sign of a long-term issue? That seems to be the question

What's the long-term issue? He pitched great this year. He arguably had the best season following TJ surgery in the history of baseball. All signs point to him being a complete stud during the next 3 years that we have control over him. The rest is just noise IMO.

Matt Harvey and would love him here long term but once we get to 2 years of control left I'd make him one "final" offer and if he passes I'd deal him 100%. His FA deal is likely going to be one someone truly regrets.

His teammates get it. His coach and organization gets it. It's about respect for them and the combined effort to get where they are. It's a sign of immaturity that he continues to put himself in thse positions. Competitive arrogance is good but when the trait begins to define yoiur general character you have a problem. Harvey is crossing that line with his repeated gaffs.

Jared Diamond ‏@jareddiamond
Hey you guys, Matt Harvey made it to work on time!!

In comment 12531807 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Matt Harvey and would love him here long term but once we get to 2 years of control left I'd make him one "final" offer and if he passes I'd deal him 100%. His FA deal is likely going to be one someone truly regrets.

+1

For Harvey's sake and the Mets sake hopefully it's immaturity. More likely it's a bigger issue than that.

He fucked up, owned up to it, apologized to his teammates. It's time to move onto bigger things...like Kershaw.

I mean the media and ten papers follow these guys around 162 games a year. I don't recall any issues with the media and the way people act you would think this guy is out every night, beating up women and children, and popping off his 45 in the parking lot telling people to come at him. Lol. Victor Cruz's fianc�e just shed some light on him that proves he is ten times worst of a human being than anything Harvey's ever done. I heard from the horses mouth deGrom actually goes out WAY more than Harvey and is generally getting back to the hotel at 4-5 in the morning. Neither has ever been caught out but we assume Harvey is because he gained weight and must be a bad guy?

I just don't get any of it. And to Shecky's earlier point.... Yes we've needed a few confident, almost cocky players, on this team for some time now. Generally these personality types don't always rub people the right way. You generally can't have it both ways though.

When Harvey gets caught selling heroine, gets a DUI, or assaults somebody... I'll be the first to criticize. But missing one practice, owning up to it and apologizing and giving tommy John the finger don't bother me.

That a boy Z!

ts News Via Twitter
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Per Alderson, Gilmartin going to LA in case Matz can't pitch.
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Sean Gilmartin will fly to LA with team. Carlos Torres headed to Florida. Gilmartin will make team if Steven Matz left off roster.

In comment 12532221 Torrag said:

Quote:

That a boy Z!

Fuck you, you little bitch.

BBI asks Torrag for his Mets thoughts, will be its first. But we all appreciate you showing up for the postseason 2 months prior with your fresh Mets hat and fresh Pom Poms. Go Mets right buddy!?

Eh, it could be worse he wasn't in a school yard or anything. LOL.

Just in time for lunch too.

Everyone send him $5 bucks and an application so you can be admitted to the Z approved Mets poster roster. LOL.

We get it. The Mets are good bro. Thanks for joining the party. Who will it be next year? Maybe the up and coming twins? The Cubs should be good for a while. Maybe Go Cubbies??? Go flavor of the month!!! whhoooo. Please give us your unfiltered Mets opinions. We are waiting on baited breath!! I know I am!

that this is another distraction caused by Harvey before their first playoff appearance since 2006. Personally I am just surprised how someone could miss practice days before their first ever playoff game regardless of whether or not he was pitching.

...if you post last in an argument you win. It's quality not quantity. You're a sad cliche with your blind fandom.

take this too seriously sometimes.

In comment 12532299 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

that this is another distraction caused by Harvey before their first playoff appearance since 2006. Personally I am just surprised how someone could miss practice days before their first ever playoff game regardless of whether or not he was pitching.

This. It's really as simple as this. There's no reason for it to get into some massive back and forth about it. Let's move on and revisit this the next time he expectedly screws up, lol :-)

Rob in Rockaway with nailing the season prediction with exactly 90 wins? Good Job!

I thought I have a chance with my 92 win prediction but the Mets kind lost their grove at the end there.
NFT: Met fans- Regular season predictions - ( New Window )

In comment 12532410 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 12532299 Jay on the Island said: Quote: that this is another distraction caused by Harvey before their first playoff appearance since 2006. Personally I am just surprised how someone could miss practice days before their first ever playoff game regardless of whether or not he was pitching. This. It's really as simple as this. There's no reason for it to get into some massive back and forth about it. Let's move on and revisit this the next time he expectedly screws up, lol :-)

My issue with Torrag has nothing to do with Harvey. The guy has had a hard on for me since he showed up around here. Probably found a picture of me on Twitter or MMO or something and can't help himself. I'd be flattered but I don't fly that way unfortunately.

That puts you squarely in the cross hairs. It's like shooting fish in a barrel you're so obvious about it.

Just win baby. Harvey's an ace and we should lock him up long term in a year or two as long as his health checks out. Even when he loses a few mph on his fastball down the road, he'll be a very good pitcher. Four plus pitches, control and knows how to pitch (and that part will continue to improve).

Ignore the drama. Just win.

...ever. He's the protytype Boras client. He will not leave dollar one on the table. As others have surmised you let him maximize his value then move him for a haul of assets.

I do not want to get into an argument but you really do seem to have a habit of arguing about anyone who says anything negative about the Mets. I consider DMM the most unbiased Mets fan on the site and I have seen you argue with him on numerous topics throughout the season. It's great that you are so passionate about the Mets just try not to be so defensive of them.

about anyone = with anyone.

Thanks for the advice. I'm good though. Torrag's issue is completely different trust me.

In comment 12532767 raever said:

Quote:

That puts you squarely in the cross hairs. It's like shooting fish in a barrel you're so obvious about it.

Thanks for crawling out of the woodwork every time there's a chance. Your consistent if nothing else.

As for the Harvey situation, we are pretty divided here so it's not like I'm the only person here who thinks the vast majority of his evilness is completely overblown nonsense. Am I overly optimistic at times? Absolutely(clearly I had plenty to be optimistic about) but there are also the same whiny bitch overreacters that fly off the handle every time there's a remote chance that is far more grating.

Good advice but your wasting your breath. He doesn't get it and he never will.

"Haul of assets is fucking stupid unless you are referring to 2018. If we decide to trade him before the 2018 season, sure we would get a "haul" back... Hell if you trade him at the DEADLINE in 2018 you still get a very good blue chip piece or two back. Trading a young, top 10 pitcher ace, controllable for three full more years plus maybe a fourth with the QO or a first round pick is worth more than any team could afford, unless we are talking Trout types which would never, ever happen.

Lol

In comment 12533179 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

Lol

Apologies. lol. None of it was meant towards you of course.

All is forgiven come game time Friday.

In comment 12533186 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 12533179 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: Lol Apologies. lol. None of it was meant towards you of course.

No worries...i never thought so. It's all good.

In comment 12533205 Torrag said:

Quote:

All is forgiven come game time Friday.

Yeah, no kidding lol. Although it wasn't my intention. We can all disagree with each other and have good discussion...that's what makes this place great. This place would kinda suck if we all agreed on everything haha. No need for this stuff to get personal and nasty...it's just a game after all.

LGM!!!

win in 4, normally I'm not confident and tend to the pessimistic side (so take that for whatever kind of omen you want), but the last time out Harvey, deGrom, and Thor were nasty.

I'm confident the bats wake up and maybe lose a Kershaw start, but that's it.

Ron Darling at PNC. Asked him re: Warthen quote via @MarcCarig �There were a lot of boys on that �86 team that didn�t make practice, either"

Anthony Rieber ‏@therealarieber 20m20 minutes ago
Ron Darling: "It's really hard for me to criticize. Half our team didn't make the parade."

Anthony Rieber ‏@therealarieber 14m14 minutes ago
86 Met Ron Darling on why he won't criticize Harvey: "We had guys who barely showed up to games.�

Doesnt back you for missing the workout, there are other things going on that the public doesn't know. The story will come out in the future. David Wright doesn't throw people under the bus without good reasons. I am trying to remember what he said when Mejia was suspended the second time in the year. I wonder if he said something when Valespin acted out.

In comment 12533241 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Anthony Rieber ‏@therealarieber 20m20 minutes ago Ron Darling: "It's really hard for me to criticize. Half our team didn't make the parade."

I don't know what everyone's reasons were but I know Doc's was because he was too messed up from blowing lines and downing booze all night the night before and he was too paranoid to leave his room for the parade. So.. not really the type of road I'd want Harvey heading down.

Maybe point out that was a different era and the climate in and around the game has changed but noooo......

I posted three tweets. The end. Read it how you will.

Wright doesn't care for Harvey. He even went passive aggressive on Harvey for the Jeter thing, and not just once but twice. That being said it doesn't really matter. Not everyone has to like each other to accomplish things in life.

The comments by Darling are really irrelevant in this situation.

In comment 12533532 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

The comments by Darling are really irrelevant in this situation.

Its irrelevant to share Darling's comments that he spoke about in Pittsburgh before the game tonight when it involved our star pitcher? Ok Jay.

you find any information to try to validate your argument and then you state it as fact. Ok so Darling said players were late all the time 29 years ago what does that have to do with Harvey missing practice days before his first playoff game creating another distraction?

I state it as fact? What the fuck are talking about. I posted three tweets about Darlings's comments. The end. How you read them is your problem.

According to the Daily News, They report that Harvey was out with friends drinking and watching Monday Night Football in New York City on Monday night.

�He had a couple of cocktails and a couple of glasses of wine,� an employee of the bar told the Daily News. �He wasn�t drunk or anything. He was out of there by 11 p.m.�

Quite the rager...

The retreat of a small mind.

Darling should have provided context for the remarks. You know 30 years ago it was a different game etc. Perhaps he did I don't follow his twitter. You can be sure if he did Z wouldn't include it.

Ok fucktard. I offered no opinion one way or the other. Darling made some comments tonight about...you know... The exact title of this thread and I shared. Personally if I offered an opinion, the parade thing didn't make much sense to me, but that's what Darling said. You don't like it. Take it up with him.

Wonderful, so now I have one dude with a fetish for me and has had a hard on for months and some moron resembling 2012 who can't put coherent thoughts together. Fantastic.

You're a caricature of a fan. You never refute it but it bears repeating. Maybe someday the light will come on for you but I doubt it.

Says the guy who became a Mets fan two months ago. Torrrag bringing the LOLZ before bed time. Thanks buddy.

Torrg... Maybe in another life?
Link - ( New Window )

You should get yourself some new and better material. You're a sad cliche'.

And bringing a humorous spin, this article in the WSJ sheds light on Why Comedians Love the Mets.

I was just having a simple discussion with you and instantly you begin calling me a moron because I disagreed with you? Yes clearly I am the moron here but at least I can have a discussion with people and not rely on childish name calling when they offer an opinion that differs from mine. You need to grow up.

Monday gametime? I have tickets but won't be able to get out of work, so hoping for an evening/night game. TBS' site says 8:30, but they also said 8:30 for Friday and that ended up being 9:45.

In comment 12534308 Jay on the Island said:

Quote:

I was just having a simple discussion with you and instantly you begin calling me a moron because I disagreed with you? Yes clearly I am the moron here but at least I can have a discussion with people and not rely on childish name calling when they offer an opinion that differs from mine. You need to grow up.

You felt the need to tell me "what my problem is". Your comments also made little sense. I apologize if I offended you and I certainly don't know you well enough to make the claim I did but if you're going to go after people in these parts, you better have some thicker skin. That's my advice friend. Let's move on to the Dodgers.

Wright and others' only issue with Harvey was that they were all highly turned off by Boras sabotaging the Mets at the wrong time and Matt went along with it, thereby making it seem like he cared about his money and not the team? Then when he was not at practice it was a continuation of their disappointment from that first thing? Other than that what has Harvey done that could piss people off (aside from the excessive star spotlight and exposure in magazines etc)? He came back from TJ surgery and pitched his ass off and helped the team win a division. It's not like he dogged it for even one second. I think its just the Boras thing, and then this, and the guys just don't want to answer a single damn question about that crap when they are about to go into the playoffs.

In comment 12534573 Metnut said:

Quote:

Monday gametime? I have tickets but won't be able to get out of work, so hoping for an evening/night game. TBS' site says 8:30, but they also said 8:30 for Friday and that ended up being 9:45.

I could hold those for you until we get this straightened out.

fans want the player to be all about the team (at least publicly). Obviously most players are ultimately all about $$$ but at least they say the right things and the fans can at least pretend. It's obvious that Matt Harvey is all about Matt Harvey...then comes $$$...then comes the team. I just think it turns some fans off. Plus, he's a constant distraction which is a bit annoying.

I'm glad we have him but hes just not a likeable player. Nothing to be pissed about but I'd also bet this isn't the last time he's a distraction.

His money second, and the team third when he is blowing past his inning restrictions and demanding to pitch in the postseason?? Even in a meaningless game his last time out he demanded to get to 100 pitches so he is ready for the postseason??? Was that protecting his arm and his asset?? Actions speak louder than words and regardless of what was said when the Boras stuff was coming out, Harvey is PROVING the team comes first. How many guys in today's game do what Harvey's doing? He's damn near been heroic.

He's not a likable guy because he said he grew up a Yankee fan. The end.

In comment 12534814 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

His money second, and the team third when he is blowing past his inning restrictions and demanding to pitch in the postseason?? Even in a meaningless game his last time out he demanded to get to 100 pitches so he is ready for the postseason??? Was that protecting his arm and his asset?? Actions speak louder than words and regardless of what was said when the Boras stuff was coming out, Harvey is PROVING the team comes first. How many guys in today's game do what Harvey's doing? He's damn near been heroic.

Dude, come on...damage control. This guys is painfully obsessed with public perception. The ONLY reason he did a 180 and pitched MORE innings than he needed to was because he was getting destroyed. Listen, if you can't see how Matt Harvey is all about Matt Harvey and $$$, then I do t know what to tell you. You can keep defending the guy, as that's your God given right. I'm jus explaining why the dude turns me off. And it has NOTHING to do with the fact that he grew up a Yankee fan. Hell, half the kids his age across the country probably grew up Yankee fans.

don't care too much for him, the starting rotation aren't big Harvey fans because he walks around like King shit, Thor won't do interviews around him, etc. Dont know how much of that I believe so take it with a grain of salt. But, where there's smoke there's fire. And that certainly fits his persona.

It was Adam Rubin on Michael Kay's show. Said Thor is intimidated by Harvey and refuses to do interviews near him. Goes outside the clubhouse to do them so he doesn't have to be around Harvey. Also said once when SNY did an in game interview with Thor after he was taken from the game to go over the game, Harvey had a fit and lit into both Thor and Jay Horowitz.

True or false? I don't know, I'm not there. But Adam Rubin is and this is what he said.

In comment 12534868 moespree said:

Quote:

It was Adam Rubin on Michael Kay's show. Said Thor is intimidated by Harvey and refuses to do interviews near him. Goes outside the clubhouse to do them so he doesn't have to be around Harvey. Also said once when SNY did an in game interview with Thor after he was taken from the game to go over the game, Harvey had a fit and lit into both Thor and Jay Horowitz. True or false? I don't know, I'm not there. But Adam Rubin is and this is what he said.

Sounds like an awesome "team first" type of guy.

Maybe that's just rookie hazing type stuff. I don't know but that seems like a lot of conjecture and heresay. If your going to say he did something, say it. Don't say you think a lot of guys don't like him, ect. We all have eyes in our heads and see the interactions on TV. DeGrom and Harvey are always around each other laughing, ect. Give me a break with that crap.

Abuse the fuck out of him for the next three years, then let him go - would MUCH rather keep Thor, DeGrom and Matz...

In comment 12534885 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Maybe that's just rookie hazing type stuff. I don't know but that seems like a lot of conjecture and heresay. If your going to say he did something, say it. Don't say you think a lot of guys don't like him, ect. We all have eyes in our heads and see the interactions on TV. DeGrom and Harvey are always around each other laughing, ect. Give me a break with that crap.

Like I said, take from it what you will. Obviously, with your Harvey Hard-on (I say in jest) I don't expect you to believe the one reporter who is around the team the most? But then again, you use your reports and tweets to support your own arguments, so we can't be hypocritical here. With Harvey's persona, I think these reports are quite believable. But that's just me.

In comment 12534832 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 12534814 ZGiants98 said: Quote: His money second, and the team third when he is blowing past his inning restrictions and demanding to pitch in the postseason?? Even in a meaningless game his last time out he demanded to get to 100 pitches so he is ready for the postseason??? Was that protecting his arm and his asset?? Actions speak louder than words and regardless of what was said when the Boras stuff was coming out, Harvey is PROVING the team comes first. How many guys in today's game do what Harvey's doing? He's damn near been heroic. Dude, come on...damage control. This guys is painfully obsessed with public perception. The ONLY reason he did a 180 and pitched MORE innings than he needed to was because he was getting destroyed. Listen, if you can't see how Matt Harvey is all about Matt Harvey and $$$, then I do t know what to tell you. You can keep defending the guy, as that's your God given right. I'm jus explaining why the dude turns me off. And it has NOTHING to do with the fact that he grew up a Yankee fan. Hell, half the kids his age across the country probably grew up Yankee fans.

I get your side I just don't view it that way. I'm sorry, but even Dan and others would have said back in April that if Harvey pitched past 200 innings a year after Tommy John it would have been extremely risky. The guy has said all along he wants to pitch. He never did a 180 and he's proving it on the field now by pitching. You don't put 200 million dollars on the line and your future health because your worried about peer pressure and what the public thinks. It takes more than that, sorry.

In comment 12534896 speedywheels said:

Quote:

Abuse the fuck out of him for the next three years, then let him go - would MUCH rather keep Thor, DeGrom and Matz...

Agree 1000%. I've said that before as well.

In comment 12534898 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

In comment 12534885 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Maybe that's just rookie hazing type stuff. I don't know but that seems like a lot of conjecture and heresay. If your going to say he did something, say it. Don't say you think a lot of guys don't like him, ect. We all have eyes in our heads and see the interactions on TV. DeGrom and Harvey are always around each other laughing, ect. Give me a break with that crap. Like I said, take from it what you will. Obviously, with your Harvey Hard-on (I say in jest) I don't expect you to believe the one reporter who is around the team the most? But then again, you use your reports and tweets to support your own arguments, so we can't be hypocritical here. With Harvey's persona, I think these reports are quite believable. But that's just me.

Believe what though? Conjecture in the locker room? What did the reporter say? That Harvey's been razzing Syndergaard? I'm all for people presenting opposing facts but is this really a good example here?

And not all things are created equal. NOBODY expected the mets to be in the playoffs or even in a race for the playoffs back in April. Different expectations breed different results.

In comment 12534909 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

In comment 12534898 PhiPsi125 said: Quote: In comment 12534885 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Maybe that's just rookie hazing type stuff. I don't know but that seems like a lot of conjecture and heresay. If your going to say he did something, say it. Don't say you think a lot of guys don't like him, ect. We all have eyes in our heads and see the interactions on TV. DeGrom and Harvey are always around each other laughing, ect. Give me a break with that crap. Like I said, take from it what you will. Obviously, with your Harvey Hard-on (I say in jest) I don't expect you to believe the one reporter who is around the team the most? But then again, you use your reports and tweets to support your own arguments, so we can't be hypocritical here. With Harvey's persona, I think these reports are quite believable. But that's just me. Believe what though? Conjecture in the locker room? What did the reporter say? That Harvey's been razzing Syndergaard? I'm all for people presenting opposing facts but is this really a good example here?

.

You can twist it around anyway you want. You know what it means.

Heading to a meeting but it's clears we are on different sides on this one. No need to continue to belabor the point.

Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. You don't give pitchers in their 30s huge massive deals. All three of these players can walk when they are done and I'll take the 1st round pick back for each of them. We have 4-5 years left of young awesomeness IMO. Why people were worried about where Harvey would sign in 2019 or 2020 as a 30 something I never could understand. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time.

In comment 12534917 PhiPsi125 said:

Quote:

And not all things are created equal. NOBODY expected the mets to be in the playoffs or even in a race for the playoffs back in April. Different expectations breed different results.

I actually think most of us expected to be in the wild card mix this year at least. I know Sandy set 90 wins as a realistic goal in 2015 opposed to a motivational tool in 2014. I'd say he was pretty close. Either way all good. Have a good meeting.

we almost all expected wild card hunt this year.

look at the predictions, almost everyone was mid to high 80's and 2014 WC was like 88 wins.

so I think we all expected/hoped we'd be in WC contention.

As it turns out they weren't in WC contention really the Cubs and Pirates crushed it, but the 90 wins exceeded most expectations and fortunately was good enough for the division.

He's all about himself. Competitive arrogance is a useful quality. When it becomes your defining characteristic as a man you become a commodity not a teammate.

In comment 12534930 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time.

Huh? Matz is 24, Thor is 23. Matz is a whopping 15 months older than Thor

To maximize his value would be before the 2018 season. Not anytime soon. We wouldn't receive fair value back at this time and if we are going to trade him two years from now, why worry about it now? A lot can change between now and then.

In comment 12534959 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 12534930 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time. Huh? Matz is 24, Thor is 23. Matz is a whopping 15 months older than Thor

Well first I just excluded Thor. Matz still has 5-6 years of control left. Not sure why your not making the connection. DeGrom will be 32!

is one thing, buying out a year of free agency is different.

think about it, if I'm correct, you need 6 years of service time to become a free agent.

so if you were 24 or 25 when you were a rookie, you're 30 or 31 when you hit free agency.

more often then not, if you're a front of the rotation starter at that time you get a mega deal and way overpaid.

so, think about it, if you could buy only that 31 or 32 year old season, before age and injury creeps in, you do it.

but agents and players know this too, so the trade-off is the security of guaranteed money from 24 - 25 to 31/32 that usually sets them up for life, but at the same time doesn't create an albatross.

I'd do it if I were any of those guys, especially deGrom, Harvey and Matz who have all had TJ already. Thor will be younger and hasn't yet so he might not be so inclined, but I'd try with him too.

Wear and tear Syndergaard has on him, hell, even he might be a bad bet to risk a 200-300 million dollar deal on at 29.

In comment 12534972 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

is one thing, buying out a year of free agency is different. think about it, if I'm correct, you need 6 years of service time to become a free agent. so if you were 24 or 25 when you were a rookie, you're 30 or 31 when you hit free agency. more often then not, if you're a front of the rotation starter at that time you get a mega deal and way overpaid. so, think about it, if you could buy only that 31 or 32 year old season, before age and injury creeps in, you do it. but agents and players know this too, so the trade-off is the security of guaranteed money from 24 - 25 to 31/32 that usually sets them up for life, but at the same time doesn't create an albatross. I'd do it if I were any of those guys, especially deGrom, Harvey and Matz who have all had TJ already. Thor will be younger and hasn't yet so he might not be so inclined, but I'd try with him too.

With starting pitching it's bad for both sides. Not saying teams don't do it but what kind of pitcher will deGrom be at 33? Will he even be throwing 91 mph then? Too risky planning out how he'll be able to perform 6 years down the road. For the player, if your really good, you likely only get one shot at a big pay day. You don't want to extend into your prime further and completely miss out on your only shot. It's just not prudent for either side.

You buy out the risk of getting injured and never getting to your payday. You and your family are setup for life.

for the team your buying out arbitration years, and ideally, one year of FA.

you get cost control.

of course the player could crap the bed and then it's not great, but normally even the Jon Niese's hang around through their arbitration years. so use him as your benchmark (though worse pitchers have), you'd be betting Harvey, Matz, or deGrom become no worse than Niese.

For the player, you're getting guaranteed what 30M - 40M? that's generational money, you are literally set for life.

if you say yeah, but that 40M comes at the cost of one year's time before you get a 140M that's the risk you take.

Just my 2c. It's why you see a lot of teams lock up young talent.

it does not always work out, but I think the risk is deemed worth it.

In comment 12534990 Torrag said:

Quote:

You buy out the risk of getting injured and never getting to your payday. You and your family are setup for life.

We agree here. It works out well for younger players and especially younger position players. Starting pitching flamethrowers breaking into the league in their mid-20s and under control for 6 more years would be huge risks to extend.

Phenom though that lived off an incredible fastball. A crafty lefty is likely going to stay a crafty lefty and Niese never stood to lose hundreds of millions of dollars.

extend vs buyout arb years and optionally (ideally for the team) any FA years. Technically it's an extension, but it's only for the years they were under team control, PLUS one or two FA years.

this has been done successfully with:
Felix Hernandez
Justin Verlander
Jon Lester
Cole Hamels
Yovanni Gollardo

and unsuccessfully with some players, but that's the risk.

to pay to keep their bats and maybe even add some offense in order to try and win as many championships as they can while they have these arms young and under affordable contract. I wouldn't try and sign any of them to big deals any time soon.

Works great on a younger guy. Not so much on an older guy like deGrom IMO.

In comment 12535057 steve in ky said:

Quote:

to pay to keep their bats and maybe even add some offense in order to try and win as many championships as they can while they have these arms young and under affordable contract. I wouldn't try and sign any of them to big deals any time soon.

I am guessing you guys don't understand what I'm saying and why it makes sense. there are no big deals. and you're paying them already anyway. which big bats should they sign? The Lagares contract already looks like a mistake. I think they got lucky Duda didn't sign his offer?

Who do you mean? Conforto?

Cespedes? Obviously we all agree on Cespedes.

In comment 12534990 Torrag said:

Quote:

You buy out the risk of getting injured and never getting to your payday. You and your family are setup for life.

Insurance mitigates that. Even college players get it. Dickey turned down that $1 million payout a decade ago when they found his arm issue.

And although not popular here I would like them to try and work out something with Murphy. He is arguably their best pure hitter, can play 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and important insurance for DW next season.

In comment 12535075 steve in ky said:

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And although not popular here I would like them to try and work out something with Murphy. He is arguably their best pure hitter, can play 1st, 2nd, or 3rd and important insurance for DW next season.

I would work something out with Murphy, but it ideally would be less than the QO, which scares me. Offering Murphy 16.5M seems asinine regardless of what fangraphs says he's worth and despite the fact no player in history has yet to accept the QO. I feel like you should be able to replace Murphy with a pre-arb guy like Herrera for a fraction of the price and better all around production.

If Murphy signs a 2 year 16M deal or 3 year 20M deal to be a utility guy I'd be ok. more money than the QO, but spread over a few years.

In comment 12534967 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 12534959 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12534930 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time. Huh? Matz is 24, Thor is 23. Matz is a whopping 15 months older than Thor Well first I just excluded Thor. Matz still has 5-6 years of control left. Not sure why your not making the connection. DeGrom will be 32!

The point is they are close in age. Yes, Thor has had his clock start sooner than Matz. But most pitchers don't start until their early 20's, so all of them would be "too old" for long term deals by the time they are FA.

As others have said - you buy out the arbitration/FA years for a long term deal.

He is a one tool player and his head is a negative tool. So that makes him a no tool player in my book. Time to move on. Flores and herrera can battle it out there.

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Herrera for a fraction of the price and better all around production.

I am not convinced you get that from him next season and I don't want them sacrificing offense while they have the pitching staff to win championships. Two years ago absolutely but I think Herrera is still a real gamble at this point. If he doesn't preform close to Murphy's level and DW again goes down for any length of time they are going backwards at the wrong point in time for the franchise.

In comment 12535097 speedywheels said:

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In comment 12534967 ZGiants98 said: Quote: In comment 12534959 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 12534930 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Harvey, Matz, and deGrom should have never been viewed as guys your going to give a long term contract to. They broke into baseball too late. Syndergaard is the only pitcher young enough where a long term deal might seem prudent when it's time. Huh? Matz is 24, Thor is 23. Matz is a whopping 15 months older than Thor Well first I just excluded Thor. Matz still has 5-6 years of control left. Not sure why your not making the connection. DeGrom will be 32! The point is they are close in age. Yes, Thor has had his clock start sooner than Matz. But most pitchers don't start until their early 20's, so all of them would be "too old" for long term deals by the time they are FA. As others have said - you buy out the arbitration/FA years for a long term deal.

It's the long term deal part that's off. Pj is suggesting buying up all the arbitration years in return for 1single option year like we did with Lagares. Something like that MAY happen but it's highly unlikely a pitcher of Thors caliber is going to extend out 2-4 years like some of you seem to be insinuating.

offering Murphy is an absolute no brainer to me. MLbtraderumors actually echoed that sentiment yesterday as well.

In comment 12535173 ZGiants98 said:

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It's the long term deal part that's off. Pj is suggesting buying up all the arbitration years in return for 1single option year like we did with Lagares. Something like that MAY happen but it's highly unlikely a pitcher of Thors caliber is going to extend out 2-4 years like some of you seem to be insinuating.

Extensions happen all the time.

I think he turns it down but the money aspect doesn't bother me. Most of the team is young, controlled, and cost effective. I don't think having Murphy around for 16 million prohibits them from anything else. Parnell, Gee, Col�n are coming off the books. I believe we can make respectable offers to Cespedes, decide on a bullpen or bench piece or two and offer the QO to Murphy without batting an eye so I don't support the idea that his money can be better spent elsewhere. If probably wouldn't be spent at all. All that said, I'm ready for Herrera to be my 2B and I do think Murphy turns it down and we recoup a 1st round pick but if accepted if be ok with that too.

any of the arbitration/FA buyouts I referenced and the ones I mentioned would make sense for the Mets would contain any more than two FA years. They'll be lucky with 1 (and I'd be fine with 1).

Geesh.

In comment 12535190 pjcas18 said:

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any of the arbitration/FA buyouts I referenced and the ones I mentioned would make sense for the Mets would contain any more than two FA years. They'll be lucky with 1 (and I'd be fine with 1).

One's possible. Unlikely, but possible. Especially for somebody like Thor, like I said originally.

but Verlander did it, Felix Hernandez did it, and other aces did it, so it's not out of the question.

The premier 2B FA this year. We are too close to the situation. He has very good numbers and is a 2.5-3 WAR player in his prime. He will absolutely have suitors.

MLB as a 19 year old. That is the opposite of the type of player I'm referring to.

So also a couple years younger than Matz, deGrom, and Harvey.

In comment 12535210 ZGiants98 said:

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So also a couple years younger than Matz, deGrom, and Harvey.

but you said thor wouldn't do it because he was so young, so I name Felix Hernandez and Verlander who did and were as young or younger than Thor and you compare them to Matz deGrom and Harvey?

makes complete sense.

In comment 12535214 pjcas18 said:

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In comment 12535210 ZGiants98 said: Quote: So also a couple years younger than Matz, deGrom, and Harvey. but you said thor wouldn't do it because he was so young, so I name Felix Hernandez and Verlander who did and were as young or younger than Thor and you compare them to Matz deGrom and Harvey? makes complete sense.

Huh? From the beginning I said Syndergaard is the one player that MAY do it because he's young. I said it's harder to do in guys like deGrom, Harvey, and Matz who will be in their 30s when they first hit free agency. Clearly you haven't been following me or we got off somewhere.

I misread this to be saying you thought thor wouldn't do it.

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One's possible. Unlikely, but possible. Especially for somebody like Thor, like I said originally.

meaning it's unlikely

:)

His baseball IQ is nil. Poor glove and decision maker in the field. Slow and clueless on the basepaths. We have a couple solid young options at 2B. It's their turn to get a shot.

and also a superb contact hitter who is allergic to K's and fond of big hits at big moments. Ideally we see some of those in these games. If we can upgrade fine...but right now he's likely the guy we want up with men in scoring position more than anyone else on the team. He's also a non-stop hustle player. Can't run and doesn't know much how to, but he won't ever dog it. Probably a damn good clubhouse guy too.

This is pretty nutty

Those stats show why. Our advantage is on the mound in Game 3.

because the Dodgers 3-5 starters suck. Their top 2 are SO good they compensate for the other three's mediocrity and are still dead even.

In comment 12535652 ZGiants98 said:

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because the Dodgers 3-5 starters suck. Their top 2 are SO good they compensate for the other three's mediocrity and are still dead even.

Alex Wood and Brett Anderson do not suck. Wood is a 24 year old lefty with a career ERA of 3.30. Anderson finally stayed healthy this season and had a solid year for LA. Are they aces? Absolutely not but they are both good starting LHP's.

Wood actually had a better WHIP and a better H/9 and SO/9 numbers than Anderson. And yet Anderson pitches game 3 against Harvey. Interesting.

In comment 12535692 moespree said:

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Wood actually had a better WHIP and a better H/9 and SO/9 numbers than Anderson. And yet Anderson pitches game 3 against Harvey. Interesting.

I am still surprised that Atlanta included him in the package for Olivera. They are in full rebuild mode and although they are loaded with pitching prospects Wood was still one of the better young LHP's in the game. I heard there were durability concerns with Wood but it seems like Atlanta paid a high price in that deal.

If DeGrom is beaten in Game 1 relying on a rookie with really bad road/home splits in game 2 is just asking for trouble. That's an extremely pressurized and hostile environment to ask Noah to go out and harness his best game with his limited experience. It would for all intents and purposes be a must win game.

It should be Harvey getting the ball in game 2 and Noah at home for game 3 where he has pitched magnificently.

In comment 12535751 Torrag said:

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If DeGrom is beaten in Game 1 relying on a rookie with really bad road/home splits in game 2 is just asking for trouble. That's an extremely pressurized and hostile environment to ask Noah to go out and harness his best game with his limited experience. It would for all intents and purposes be a must win game. It should be Harvey getting the ball in game 2 and Noah at home for game 3 where he has pitched magnificently.

I think they pushed Harvey to the third start because they know they wouldn't ask and he likely wouldn't be willing to go on short rest if need be to pitch twice in the same series.

It has to be game 3. It's done in case you need to bring deGrom back on short rest for game 4. If Harvey pitches game 2 and you bring deGrom back on short rest for game 4 then who pitches game 5?

He's getting Game 4. DeGrom comes back for Game 5. IMO DeGrom.harvey/Thor/Matz/DeGrom is the optimal pitching setup for this series. If we go down 0-2 it's over anyway.

They probably will go to deGrom on 3 days rest. Because of the travel off day the next day Noah would actually be on full rest for game 5 in that scenario. It's because Harvey will only pitch once in the series they have to guard against the possibility of bringing deGrom back on short rest. If this was not the case then I suspect Harvey would be the game 2 starter.

I like our chances of getting the split a lot better with Harvey going in game 2. Noah still gives us a clear advantage in Game 3. It's a more aggressive rotation and that's how I'd play it. To win.

teams have won the first games up to now, hopefully the mets can continue that trend.

Road games. All four of these pitchers are green as grass and have never pitched in a postseason before. People forget Harvey and DeGrom just completed their first full season. Any could implode or be awesome. We have no clue. Syndergaard was our best pitcher down the stretch IMO.

Harvey in game 3 is perfect. How many teams can pitch that caliber pitcher in the pivotal game of any 5 game series? It's not like either starter for the first 2 games is a weak link. There's no reason to believe that they both can't go out there and dominate, and then Citi for game 3 with Harv on the mound while the stadium is shaking. I don't see anything wrong with that at all. I actually prefer Harv in game 3 because if godforbid we lose the first 2, there isn't a pitcher I'd prefer on the mound for that game.

Of this guy (although compared to Phil Mushnick he's a genius) but this article is refreshing to read. The media in this city are a disgrace nearly all of the time, as they relish every chance to selfishly push their agenda and magnify every small issue into a huge deal. The Harvey workout thing is another example. He screwed up like an ass. Then told everyone he screwed up like an ass and apologized. Yet they can't get past the story because it gives them bullshit to obsess over instead of actually being interesting. Nice to see a member of the media tell the truth about how full of shit they are.
Raissman - ( New Window )

And it's oh so true.

Having Harvey in Game 3 is huge. We lose nothing with Syndergaard pitching in Game 2. I actually think at this point Syndergaard is the MOST likely to pitch an absolute gem.

Except the game is he struggles pitching his first post season game.

While it's true Harvey is just finishing his 'first full season' ...it's misleading to compare Harvey's level of experience to Noah's. It's ths kind of thing fans without objectivity might point out to support an obviously false argument. If they were so inclined.

is a diva. I don't think it's just a couple of isolated incidents, but his general attitude seems to be what's turned some people in the Mets organization off. I think the whole "Innings Pitched saga" was probably overblown by the NYC media, but I told you guys a while back even before that story that I knew someone in the Mets organization and they basically all think Harvey is a major asshole even by baseball player standards. He's an uber-confident young NYC athlete that knows how good he is and is trying to squeeze every bit of fun out of his mid20s. Understandable, and our boy Odell is kind of showing some similar diva-like signs (although Odell seems to be smarter/polished than Harvey from what I've seen). But he's a professional athlete and clearly still needs to grow up a bit.

That being said, I'm sure none of you guys will care if Harvey kills it and helps carry you guys to a World Series title. Syndergaard's heat/age might make him the #1 starter to build around on the team. DeGrom is just filthy and has been your best pitcher this year. But I still think Harvey has the highest ceiling of any pitcher on your team right now and is the guy with the best chance of performing like a true Ace in the post-season.

I won't be rooting for you guys outside of a World Series vs. Toronto, but I definitely think you guys have a real chance if that Big 3 of Harvey/DeGrom/Syndergaard bring their best with the season on the line.

has in the postseason again? Explain to me why Game 3 is any LESS important than Game 2? It isn't. Most would argue its MORE important and more pivotal but a fan that lacks objectivity who clearly can't see past his nose might argue "pitch your best two first, duh!" Nevermind Harvey can only go one game per round according to Sandy/medical people ect. and we might need our Game 2 starter to go game 5 if deGrom is forced to pitch Game 4. But to hell with that too right buddy? Fuck Harvey. Fuck him hard!

In comment 12535678 Jay on the Island said:

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In comment 12535652 ZGiants98 said: Quote: because the Dodgers 3-5 starters suck. Their top 2 are SO good they compensate for the other three's mediocrity and are still dead even. Alex Wood and Brett Anderson do not suck. Wood is a 24 year old lefty with a career ERA of 3.30. Anderson finally stayed healthy this season and had a solid year for LA. Are they aces? Absolutely not but they are both good starting LHP's.

Jay you are talking about two guys with an FIP north of 4. In terms of playoff starters, they suck. It would be like starting Jon Niese in games 3 and 4 in the series of our lives. In broader terms, they are probably fine as back end starters but certainly not in a crucial playoff series.

I have seen Wood pitch numerous times and he is a damn fine young pitcher, This season he struggled in the beginning but he came on later in the year. If Wood was on the Mets I am sure we would hear you raving about him. His numbers thus far are better than Wheeler as he has a better career ERA and WHIP despite being a year younger. He also played on a poor team in Atlanta for his first 2+ years.

He may have potential but he hasn't put it together yet and the fact that he's in his 3rd season makes the analogy to Wheeler a poor one. You can't possibly be saying the drop off from Kershaw and Greinke to Anderson and Wood isn't like driving a car off the Himalayas.

...and could potentially handle the pressure of a must win Game 2 scenario better then there is no hope for you. If you prefer the rotation as it is I get it, thats your opinion. But to act as if there is no validity to other opinions is the typical response we all expect from you in most Mets discussions. Either way the rotation is set and it's time to play our first playoff series in nearly a decade. Let's Go Mets!

In comment 12536566 ZGiants98 said:

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He may have potential but he hasn't put it together yet and the fact that he's in his 3rd season makes the analogy to Wheeler a poor one. You can't possibly be saying the drop off from Kershaw and Greinke to Anderson and Wood isn't like driving a car off the Himalayas.

I never compared either of them to Kershaw and Greinke that would be absurd. I was just saying they don't suck. You are right that Wood hasn't reached his potential yet but you have to admit he has pitched very well for such a young player. Why is the analogy to Wheeler such a poor one? He has only started 67 games thus far. Keep in mind that Wood was promoted to the majors despite pitching only 33 games in the minors. The guy only pitched 10 games at AA and one in AAA. I am not debating which pitcher has more potential I was just stating that Wood has been more impressive thus far and he is a fine young LHP. You should be happy Atlanta traded him away.