but if this kid was black, shit would have gone down WAY differently.
Gotta disagree here. With recent events across the nation, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, etc, I think it would've gone down the same way. There were cameras everywhere and the staff showed incredible restraint after he put his hands on several people multiple times. Are you suggesting that, had he been black, they would have simply roughed him up and called the police? Like I said, the current racial climate, the managers restraint, and the presence of dozens of cameras make me think that if the student in question was black it would've gone down the same way or the staff would've shown more restraint, lest become the newest face of oppressive, systematic racism perpetrated by whites in "power" (ie-a university cafe manager) against a disenfranchised black youth.
No, I just don't think they'd show the same patience with him, and he may have been roughed up a little more. Mostly bc I think he'd be perceived as a bigger threat if he was black, but that's just my personal opinion.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Drunk black kid perceived as a "bigger threat"(ie-more intimidating, more likely to resort to violence, etc), so you think that means the manager is more likely to "rough him up"? That's completely counterintuitive.
No offense man but you sound really dumb here. Put down the shovel.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hate to open up this can of worms Â
I don't really give a shit if people on BBI think I have a racial bias, because I know I don't. There's plenty of people on here who I think have a racial bias going the other way, but that's who they are, and that won't be changed over an internet. Don't really care all that much. Idk.
I know myself, so I don't have anything to prove to anyone regarding prejudice.
What's funny is that I didn't even say anything about how white people act. I said that if this kid was black, this would have turned out different. Don't contort that into "kill whitey", cause it's not.
If you think that equates to prejudice, that's on you.
"2 uncles and an aunt that are white and 6 half white cousins"?
hahaha good catch.
I was listening to ESPN Radio the other morning, and they kept playing this clip of Alex Rodriguez saying things like "these games are life and death. literally life and death situations, literally".
I said that if this kid was black, this would have turned out different.
Whether that statement is true or not has no bearing from a definition standpoint. It is clearly your perception or belief, which is the definition of bias.
You believe one thing over another. Again - that's even without making a judgment on whether or not your belief is correct or not.
RE: I already said I wasn't talking about the manager Â
I don't really give a shit if people on BBI think I have a racial bias, because I know I don't. There's plenty of people on here who I think have a racial bias going the other way, but that's who they are, and that won't be changed over an internet. Don't really care all that much. Idk.
I know myself, so I don't have anything to prove to anyone regarding prejudice.
What's funny is that I didn't even say anything about how white people act. I said that if this kid was black, this would have turned out different. Don't contort that into "kill whitey", cause it's not.
If you think that equates to prejudice, that's on you.
Kill Whitey??? WTF are you talking about? No one said that or anything close. You are contorting being told you have a racial bias. Combine that with your authority issues and well, you have a long way to go.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hate to open up this can of worms Â
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Posting using your phone too, I see.
Not sure of the relevance but no, I'm on my iPad. They have autocorrect too. Any chance you want to address the rest of the post, or just the typos? [/quote]
No, I'm just sharing in the unpleasant experience.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Hate to open up this can of worms Â
but if this kid was black, shit would have gone down WAY differently.
Gotta disagree here. With recent events across the nation, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, etc, I think it would've gone down the same way. There were cameras everywhere and the staff showed incredible restraint after he put his hands on several people multiple times. Are you suggesting that, had he been black, they would have simply roughed him up and called the police? Like I said, the current racial climate, the managers restraint, and the presence of dozens of cameras make me think that if the student in question was black it would've gone down the same way or the staff would've shown more restraint, lest become the newest face of oppressive, systematic racism perpetrated by whites in "power" (ie-a university cafe manager) against a disenfranchised black youth.
No, I just don't think they'd show the same patience with him, and he may have been roughed up a little more. Mostly bc I think he'd be perceived as a bigger threat if he was black, but that's just my personal opinion.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Drunk black kid perceived as a "bigger threat"(ie-more intimidating, more likely to resort to violence, etc), so you think that means the manager is more likely to "rough him up"? That's completely counterintuitive.
No offense man but you sound really dumb here. Put down the shovel.
Nah, I've said over and over again I'm not talking about the manager, who was clearly doing the right thing and keeping his hands off the kid.
Personally, I think the cops would have probably been there sooner and may have roughed him up a little more when arresting him. Frankly though, depending on how much they roughed him up, it'd have been justified, as long as they weren't like throwing punches or repeatedly slamming his head into the ground after they took him down.
In retrospect, it was kind of the wrong tree to bark up. This kid was given a long leash, and while I still don't think he would have been given the same leash if he was black, everyone else handled this pretty marvelously - from the manager, to the cops, to even the kids who recorded it and put it on Youtube. Personally, I don't think that it would have turned out exactly the same if he was black,
BUT, it really is pointless conjecture considering that these people all took care of this douche in the proper manner.
A black kid would definitely have a shorter leash, but since this kid was given way too long of a leash to be a total dickhead anyway, does it really matter?
Having said that, my comment was pretty much just a throwaway comment that I do believe to interesting. I don't think a black kid would have been given that much leeway to act like such a dickbag, but it's not like he'd deserve as much leeway anyway.
tl;dr: sorry my post caused a ruckus, I still stand by the principle that things probably would have been different, but its immaterial regardless since anyone who acts like this deserves to be taken down and arrested... and there's no way of knowing how this particular group of people would have handled it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hate to open up this can of worms Â
There is no inequity in this post-racial America. I had a hunch that there was given all the protests that happened not too long ago, but this all has obviously been quashed.
I just want to say I'm sorry for the misconception. My friend's dad, who is a high ranking executive at the Department of Transportation, was driving this shitty Chevy Impala all these years because it statistically reduced his chances of getting pulled over, which he always feared because he's black. I can't wait to give him the news that he's now safe to upgrade.
You know all these things as facts in your racially biased mind. Â
but if this kid was black, shit would have gone down WAY differently.
Gotta disagree here. With recent events across the nation, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, etc, I think it would've gone down the same way. There were cameras everywhere and the staff showed incredible restraint after he put his hands on several people multiple times. Are you suggesting that, had he been black, they would have simply roughed him up and called the police? Like I said, the current racial climate, the managers restraint, and the presence of dozens of cameras make me think that if the student in question was black it would've gone down the same way or the staff would've shown more restraint, lest become the newest face of oppressive, systematic racism perpetrated by whites in "power" (ie-a university cafe manager) against a disenfranchised black youth.
No, I just don't think they'd show the same patience with him, and he may have been roughed up a little more. Mostly bc I think he'd be perceived as a bigger threat if he was black, but that's just my personal opinion.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Drunk black kid perceived as a "bigger threat"(ie-more intimidating, more likely to resort to violence, etc), so you think that means the manager is more likely to "rough him up"? That's completely counterintuitive.
No offense man but you sound really dumb here. Put down the shovel.
Nah, I've said over and over again I'm not talking about the manager, who was clearly doing the right thing and keeping his hands off the kid.
Personally, I think the cops would have probably been there sooner and may have roughed him up a little more when arresting him. Frankly though, depending on how much they roughed him up, it'd have been justified, as long as they weren't like throwing punches or repeatedly slamming his head into the ground after they took him down.
In retrospect, it was kind of the wrong tree to bark up. This kid was given a long leash, and while I still don't think he would have been given the same leash if he was black, everyone else handled this pretty marvelously - from the manager, to the cops, to even the kids who recorded it and put it on Youtube. Personally, I don't think that it would have turned out exactly the same if he was black,
BUT, it really is pointless conjecture considering that these people all took care of this douche in the proper manner.
A black kid would definitely have a shorter leash, but since this kid was given way too long of a leash to be a total dickhead anyway, does it really matter?
Having said that, my comment was pretty much just a throwaway comment that I do believe to interesting. I don't think a black kid would have been given that much leeway to act like such a dickbag, but it's not like he'd deserve as much leeway anyway.
tl;dr: sorry my post caused a ruckus, I still stand by the principle that things probably would have been different, but its immaterial regardless since anyone who acts like this deserves to be taken down and arrested... and there's no way of knowing how this particular group of people would have handled it.
All your conclusions in your suppositions are unprovable yet incredibly inflammatory. Kudos!!
RE: You know all these things as facts in your racially biased mind. Â
So sad. I'm sure you can count on your bias coming up in future threads.
You are BBI's ultimate troll. Nothing you're saying makes any sense, but you just keep replying and insulting people to get a rise out of them.
Anyway, you're wrong, and here's why: My post didn't single out white people. You put that in yourself. What I said was that this would have turned out differently if this kid was black. This is because I feel that society as a whole and authorities look at black people as a threat more than white people, if everything else is considered equal.
My own family is not above this. My 75 year old Indian Grandma definitely perceives black people as more of a threat than white people.
All I want is to reach a point in our country where that doesn't happen.
Does it apply to this case? No, not really... But it was more just something I was thinking to myself and posted. "Would this turn out the same way if this kid was black?".
Personally, my answer is no. If you feel it would, then good for you.
So please spare me the troll-ish bullshit about how I'm racist, or some shit.
Also, there's a difference between prejudice and racist. Racism comes from a position of power, while anyone can be prejudiced. It's semantics, but still.
RE: RE: You know all these things as facts in your racially biased mind. Â
So sad. I'm sure you can count on your bias coming up in future threads.
You are BBI's ultimate troll. Nothing you're saying makes any sense, but you just keep replying and insulting people to get a rise out of them.
Anyway, you're wrong, and here's why: My post didn't single out white people. You put that in yourself. What I said was that this would have turned out differently if this kid was black. This is because I feel that society as a whole and authorities look at black people as a threat more than white people, if everything else is considered equal.
My own family is not above this. My 75 year old Indian Grandma definitely perceives black people as more of a threat than white people.
All I want is to reach a point in our country where that doesn't happen.
Does it apply to this case? No, not really... But it was more just something I was thinking to myself and posted. "Would this turn out the same way if this kid was black?".
Personally, my answer is no. If you feel it would, then good for you.
So please spare me the troll-ish bullshit about how I'm racist, or some shit.
Also, there's a difference between prejudice and racist. Racism comes from a position of power, while anyone can be prejudiced. It's semantics, but still.
Why are you saying "racist"??? When did I use that word? I said "racial bias". Racial is an adjective used to describe your bias. Do you not know the difference? Are dumb or just stoned?
I can draw my own conclusions, and you're free to draw your own.
Based on my own experiences, experiences of people I know, and what I see around the country, I don't think it would have been the same if this dude was black.
Feel free to disagree; your opinion can differ from mine. But I'm failing to see what's so offensive about feeling that way. It's not an indictment on white people, no matter how much Peter in ATL wants you to think it is.
Racist, racial bias, it doesn't matter what you said since you're wrong. Nothing I said implies any racial bas against white people.
And if your getting your panties in a bunch this much about purported racial bias on a message board against whites, you should be counting your fucking lucky stars every night that you aren't of any other different ethnicity or race.
RE: I already said I wasn't talking about the manager Â
it is semantics, but you definitely have racial bias.
Quote:
Based on my own experiences, experiences of people I know, and what I see around the country, I don't think it would have been the same if this dude was black
It is OK to just admit it and then stand by it. But you cannot state based on your posts on this thread there isn't any bias on your part. It meets every criteria for the definition, including believing a certain scenario to be fact.
There's really no problem with that, but I find it odd that you believe what you do and refuse to see it is bias.
from out of nowhere about how a black kid would have been treated differently when you have no idea. None. Zero. Nada.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
These exact people? Yeah, you're right, I don't know them. But I think there's a multitude of evidence within society as a whole to support that the situation may have turned out differently if some of the variables were changed, including the race of the douchebag. If you're going to tell me there's no evidence within society to support this sentiment, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Essentially, you're saying there's no evidence to believe that people are treated based on skin color. I disagree with that.
from out of nowhere about how a black kid would have been treated differently when you have no idea. None. Zero. Nada.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
These exact people? Yeah, you're right, I don't know them. But I think there's a multitude of evidence within society as a whole to support that the situation may have turned out differently if some of the variables were changed, including the race of the douchebag. If you're going to tell me there's no evidence within society to support this sentiment, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Essentially, you're saying there's no evidence to believe that people are treated based on skin color. I disagree with that.
But you pointed to this exact incident and these exact people and saying that this specifically would have been the outcome (as is Phil). Using a generalization to make a conclusion about a specific event. That's almost the very definition of bias.
You can keep claiming that I'm upset over a bias against white people Â
All I have said is that you have a racial bias. That is a fact. You refuse to admit it but all anyone has to do is read your posts on this thread to see that you have a bias and it is based on race.
it is semantics, but you definitely have racial bias.
Quote:
Based on my own experiences, experiences of people I know, and what I see around the country, I don't think it would have been the same if this dude was black
It is OK to just admit it and then stand by it. But you cannot state based on your posts on this thread there isn't any bias on your part. It meets every criteria for the definition, including believing a certain scenario to be fact.
There's really no problem with that, but I find it odd that you believe what you do and refuse to see it is bias.
I get what you're saying. The reason I am deflecting the bias issue is simply because I'm not saying only white people would have treated this guy differently if he was black...I think everyone, whether it was an Asian, Indian, Spanish person, would have treated this guy different if he was black.
I didn't mean for it to be an indictment on white people.
Nobody is perfect and I'm sure we all have our own biases. I just never really thought of myself as having a bias against "white people", since most of the people I've associated with throughout my life are white.
I will readily admit I have biases against certain groups of people, but they typically are a level under race. For example, if someone is from a certain part of the country and has certain viewpoints or presents themselves a certain way (e.g. Confederate Flag), I will probably assume a few things about them.
FMiC, thanks for the civil discourse even though we disagree on certain subjects. Much appreciated.
Im really not sure how you just didn't double down Â
from out of nowhere about how a black kid would have been treated differently when you have no idea. None. Zero. Nada.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
These exact people? Yeah, you're right, I don't know them. But I think there's a multitude of evidence within society as a whole to support that the situation may have turned out differently if some of the variables were changed, including the race of the douchebag. If you're going to tell me there's no evidence within society to support this sentiment, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Essentially, you're saying there's no evidence to believe that people are treated based on skin color. I disagree with that.
But you pointed to this exact incident and these exact people and saying that this specifically would have been the outcome (as is Phil). Using a generalization to make a conclusion about a specific event. That's almost the very definition of bias.
Yes, you are correct and that was something I've thought about. It definitely occurred to me that I don't know these particular people, and honestly, that manager showed that he probably would NOT act differently based on who was being a dick to him. So you're 100% right.
I'm trying to find a way to subscribe to both at once though... like there has to be a way where these two trains of thought are not at odds with eachother, because I do believe both. On one hand, there's nothing these people did that shows that they would react differently to a POC. On the other hand, I do genuinely think the entire situation may have been more contentious and could have potentially escalated further if the douchebag was black.
I didn't reach my conclusion based on them being white though, and that's why I was refuting the racial bias aspect. I reached my conclusion based on how POCs, particularly black people, have been treated as bigger threats than equivalent whites in the past.
Not sure how I can reconcile these two viewpoints, but I do believe both of them. Like I said earlier in this post, if anything, actions of people like the manager actually prove moreso that they'd make an attempt to de-escalate the situation.
So yeah, you are totally right about passing judgement on the individual people, but I still have my doubts about whether this would have gone down the same way with a black guy. I'm not sure if there's a way to reconcile those two things.
Imo they should have gave him the Mac and cheese Â
He was stoned and drunk, probly on some xanax too by the sound of him and his actions and clearly an absolute asshole kid, but why can't he get his Mac and cheese?
I'm sure his parents paid for his tuition and meal plan so why can't the dude eat? Why is some jackass denying him food? Cuz he's a drunk asshole? Just give him his food and file a complaint.
As for the cell phone camera, LOL, wow what assholes we have today. Nobody would help either of these poor individuals out?? The poor lunch man just trying to follow status quo protocol and this punk spoiled brat just wanting some Mac and cheese before he goes back to the dorm and jerks off for the night
RE: Im really not sure how you just didn't double down Â
I didn't double down because I'm biased just like all of you - but it's not based on race.
I've made it a conscious point to do this my whole life because I want to believe and try to convince myself that people aren't looking at me and sizing me up based on my race.
Peter, you keep saying racial bias but you haven't pointed out where it's racial. I've said ad nauseum over and over again that I didn't single out white people for thinking that a black person would be more threatening, but rather referred to pretty much everyone. You're trying to twist it into a racial bias against whites.
You cannot beleive both of them, unless you are severely schizophrenic Â
I think you just wanted to bring race into something which was a confrontation but which had no racial component whatsoever. Just because.
obviously race has nothing to do with this story.
I brought it up because someone on another site posted a similar comment and I was thinking about it on my way to work.
Anyway, presented with those two dichotomous options, I still believe that things would have unfolded differently if the guy was black. If a black dude was acting like that and shoved someone in public 3x, I think there would be a stronger response than if a white dude was.
I don't view this as bias against white people because I believe people of pretty much any race would have perceived a black person as a bigger threat.
Other than the manager, who has shown that his cooler head prevails, I have nothing to base this off of other than the interactions I've seen before and read about before.
So it's speculation. And if this speculation crosses the line, then why speculate on any hypotheticals in any situation?
honestly though, I just want to get to a point in our country where the thought of two people being treated differently based on race doesn't even enter the minds of 99% of the population.
The kid deserved whatever he got the second he put his hands on another human being.
Having said that, unless the worker was under a specific directive to not serve inebriated people or something, he strikes me as a douche on a power trip. If the places around college didn't serve drunk when I was in school, I would've starved to death.
Again, he may have been under orders, in which case, ignore my last statement. But if he wasn't. I'm OK with him being publicly criticized in any way except physically.
The kid deserved whatever he got the second he put his hands on another human being.
Having said that, unless the worker was under a specific directive to not serve inebriated people or something, he strikes me as a douche on a power trip. If the places around college didn't serve drunk when I was in school, I would've starved to death.
Again, he may have been under orders, in which case, ignore my last statement. But if he wasn't. I'm OK with him being publicly criticized in any way except physically.
Interesting that you're the only person, who has insinuated that he may have been a douche. Strange take, IMO.
The kid deserved whatever he got the second he put his hands on another human being.
Having said that, unless the worker was under a specific directive to not serve inebriated people or something, he strikes me as a douche on a power trip. If the places around college didn't serve drunk when I was in school, I would've starved to death.
Again, he may have been under orders, in which case, ignore my last statement. But if he wasn't. I'm OK with him being publicly criticized in any way except physically.
Yeah but we dont know what happened that made him initial refuse him service, at least the version I saw. Considering how crazy that kid was, I think he probably did something to warrant being refused service.
Right when the tape rolls, he starts berating the guy for working in food service. What a fucking dipshit thing for a 19 year old to do. This kid sucks and he's gonna have a hard time getting a job after college.
He's going to have a hard time getting into college Â
This drunk 19 year old moron? Or the jackass, who posted a picture of himself and the child of his coworker on Facebook and allowed his friends to make racist comments about the kid (and contributed himself)? And while I don't think that the people posting stupid racist comments are all racists, they're just stupid as shit for posting shit like that with their personal accounts. Good ridden to stupidity getting its ass kicked to the curb.
Quote:
An Atlanta man was fired from Polaris Marketing Group last week after he posted racist comments on a Facebook picture of himself and a coworker's African-American son.
Gerod Roth, who was listed on Facebook as Geris Hilton, posted a selfie with Sydney Shelton's 3-year-old son Cayden on Sept. 16. Roth's friends soon started making extremely racist comments on the picture, saying things like, "I didn't know you were a slave owner" and "But Massuh, I dindu nuffin." Roth himself commented that Cayden "was feral." The post has since been deleted, but not before countless screengrabs were taken.
The dude seems even more douchey with his comments following the incident/firing...ugh...stupid douche.
Quote:
According to the Journal-Constitution, Roth was also fired from YourEDM, where he worked as Geris Hilton, and several of the racist commenters have been fired from their jobs as well.
"I just really feel upset, not only with myself, but also the character that was based off the comments that my friends had made," Roth told Atlanta's FOX 5 News. "Cayden has been victimized but I have been targeted."
He also claimed to have asked one of his Facebook friends to stop making racist remarks, and said he emailed Shelton an apology, but Shelton told FOX 5 that it didn't seem sincere.
"People post things in a [joking] manner and it gets taken a completely different way but I don't believe any of these people were joking," Shelton said.
Quote:
In comment 12532208 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
but if this kid was black, shit would have gone down WAY differently.
Gotta disagree here. With recent events across the nation, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, etc, I think it would've gone down the same way. There were cameras everywhere and the staff showed incredible restraint after he put his hands on several people multiple times. Are you suggesting that, had he been black, they would have simply roughed him up and called the police? Like I said, the current racial climate, the managers restraint, and the presence of dozens of cameras make me think that if the student in question was black it would've gone down the same way or the staff would've shown more restraint, lest become the newest face of oppressive, systematic racism perpetrated by whites in "power" (ie-a university cafe manager) against a disenfranchised black youth.
No, I just don't think they'd show the same patience with him, and he may have been roughed up a little more. Mostly bc I think he'd be perceived as a bigger threat if he was black, but that's just my personal opinion.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Drunk black kid perceived as a "bigger threat"(ie-more intimidating, more likely to resort to violence, etc), so you think that means the manager is more likely to "rough him up"? That's completely counterintuitive.
No offense man but you sound really dumb here. Put down the shovel.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
[/quote]
Posting using your phone too, I see.
I know myself, so I don't have anything to prove to anyone regarding prejudice.
What's funny is that I didn't even say anything about how white people act. I said that if this kid was black, this would have turned out different. Don't contort that into "kill whitey", cause it's not.
If you think that equates to prejudice, that's on you.
hahaha good catch.
I was listening to ESPN Radio the other morning, and they kept playing this clip of Alex Rodriguez saying things like "these games are life and death. literally life and death situations, literally".
So funny.
Whether that statement is true or not has no bearing from a definition standpoint. It is clearly your perception or belief, which is the definition of bias.
You believe one thing over another. Again - that's even without making a judgment on whether or not your belief is correct or not.
I know myself, so I don't have anything to prove to anyone regarding prejudice.
What's funny is that I didn't even say anything about how white people act. I said that if this kid was black, this would have turned out different. Don't contort that into "kill whitey", cause it's not.
If you think that equates to prejudice, that's on you.
Kill Whitey??? WTF are you talking about? No one said that or anything close. You are contorting being told you have a racial bias. Combine that with your authority issues and well, you have a long way to go.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Posting using your phone too, I see. [/quote]
Not sure of the relevance but no, I'm on my iPad. They have autocorrect too. Any chance you want to address the rest of the post, or just the typos?
that definitely qualifies as thinking of them as glass half full! so you get style points for thinking positively. :)
Quote:
In comment 12532607 j_rud said:
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Posting using your phone too, I see.
Not sure of the relevance but no, I'm on my iPad. They have autocorrect too. Any chance you want to address the rest of the post, or just the typos? [/quote]
No, I'm just sharing in the unpleasant experience.
Quote:
In comment 12532441 j_rud said:
Quote:
In comment 12532208 Sonic Youth said:
Quote:
but if this kid was black, shit would have gone down WAY differently.
Gotta disagree here. With recent events across the nation, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, etc, I think it would've gone down the same way. There were cameras everywhere and the staff showed incredible restraint after he put his hands on several people multiple times. Are you suggesting that, had he been black, they would have simply roughed him up and called the police? Like I said, the current racial climate, the managers restraint, and the presence of dozens of cameras make me think that if the student in question was black it would've gone down the same way or the staff would've shown more restraint, lest become the newest face of oppressive, systematic racism perpetrated by whites in "power" (ie-a university cafe manager) against a disenfranchised black youth.
No, I just don't think they'd show the same patience with him, and he may have been roughed up a little more. Mostly bc I think he'd be perceived as a bigger threat if he was black, but that's just my personal opinion.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Drunk black kid perceived as a "bigger threat"(ie-more intimidating, more likely to resort to violence, etc), so you think that means the manager is more likely to "rough him up"? That's completely counterintuitive.
No offense man but you sound really dumb here. Put down the shovel.
Nah, I've said over and over again I'm not talking about the manager, who was clearly doing the right thing and keeping his hands off the kid.
Personally, I think the cops would have probably been there sooner and may have roughed him up a little more when arresting him. Frankly though, depending on how much they roughed him up, it'd have been justified, as long as they weren't like throwing punches or repeatedly slamming his head into the ground after they took him down.
In retrospect, it was kind of the wrong tree to bark up. This kid was given a long leash, and while I still don't think he would have been given the same leash if he was black, everyone else handled this pretty marvelously - from the manager, to the cops, to even the kids who recorded it and put it on Youtube. Personally, I don't think that it would have turned out exactly the same if he was black,
BUT, it really is pointless conjecture considering that these people all took care of this douche in the proper manner.
A black kid would definitely have a shorter leash, but since this kid was given way too long of a leash to be a total dickhead anyway, does it really matter?
Having said that, my comment was pretty much just a throwaway comment that I do believe to interesting. I don't think a black kid would have been given that much leeway to act like such a dickbag, but it's not like he'd deserve as much leeway anyway.
tl;dr: sorry my post caused a ruckus, I still stand by the principle that things probably would have been different, but its immaterial regardless since anyone who acts like this deserves to be taken down and arrested... and there's no way of knowing how this particular group of people would have handled it.
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In comment 12532618 santacruzom said:
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In comment 12532607 j_rud said:
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Posting using your phone too, I see.
Not sure of the relevance but no, I'm on my iPad. They have autocorrect too. Any chance you want to address the rest of the post, or just the typos?
No, I'm just sharing in the unpleasant experience. [/quote]
The unpleasant experience of typing from a mobile device or addressing baseless accusations of racial bias?
I just want to say I'm sorry for the misconception. My friend's dad, who is a high ranking executive at the Department of Transportation, was driving this shitty Chevy Impala all these years because it statistically reduced his chances of getting pulled over, which he always feared because he's black. I can't wait to give him the news that he's now safe to upgrade.
that definitely qualifies as thinking of them as glass half full! so you get style points for thinking positively. :)
Haha, I feel like this is a milk in a glass joke, unless it went over my head or something.
But yeah, trust me man, I'm definitely not one of those mega SJW's who hate the "cisgendered white capitalist male patriarchy!!!!!"
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In comment 12532450 Sonic Youth said:
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In comment 12532441 j_rud said:
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In comment 12532208 Sonic Youth said:
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but if this kid was black, shit would have gone down WAY differently.
Gotta disagree here. With recent events across the nation, the rise of the Black Lives Matter movement, etc, I think it would've gone down the same way. There were cameras everywhere and the staff showed incredible restraint after he put his hands on several people multiple times. Are you suggesting that, had he been black, they would have simply roughed him up and called the police? Like I said, the current racial climate, the managers restraint, and the presence of dozens of cameras make me think that if the student in question was black it would've gone down the same way or the staff would've shown more restraint, lest become the newest face of oppressive, systematic racism perpetrated by whites in "power" (ie-a university cafe manager) against a disenfranchised black youth.
No, I just don't think they'd show the same patience with him, and he may have been roughed up a little more. Mostly bc I think he'd be perceived as a bigger threat if he was black, but that's just my personal opinion.
Again,cleats follow this train of thought a little...
Drunk black kid perceived as a "bigger threat"(ie-more intimidating, more likely to resort to violence, etc), so you think that means the manager is more likely to "rough him up"? That's completely counterintuitive.
No offense man but you sound really dumb here. Put down the shovel.
Nah, I've said over and over again I'm not talking about the manager, who was clearly doing the right thing and keeping his hands off the kid.
Personally, I think the cops would have probably been there sooner and may have roughed him up a little more when arresting him. Frankly though, depending on how much they roughed him up, it'd have been justified, as long as they weren't like throwing punches or repeatedly slamming his head into the ground after they took him down.
In retrospect, it was kind of the wrong tree to bark up. This kid was given a long leash, and while I still don't think he would have been given the same leash if he was black, everyone else handled this pretty marvelously - from the manager, to the cops, to even the kids who recorded it and put it on Youtube. Personally, I don't think that it would have turned out exactly the same if he was black,
BUT, it really is pointless conjecture considering that these people all took care of this douche in the proper manner.
A black kid would definitely have a shorter leash, but since this kid was given way too long of a leash to be a total dickhead anyway, does it really matter?
Having said that, my comment was pretty much just a throwaway comment that I do believe to interesting. I don't think a black kid would have been given that much leeway to act like such a dickbag, but it's not like he'd deserve as much leeway anyway.
tl;dr: sorry my post caused a ruckus, I still stand by the principle that things probably would have been different, but its immaterial regardless since anyone who acts like this deserves to be taken down and arrested... and there's no way of knowing how this particular group of people would have handled it.
You are BBI's ultimate troll. Nothing you're saying makes any sense, but you just keep replying and insulting people to get a rise out of them.
Anyway, you're wrong, and here's why: My post didn't single out white people. You put that in yourself. What I said was that this would have turned out differently if this kid was black. This is because I feel that society as a whole and authorities look at black people as a threat more than white people, if everything else is considered equal.
My own family is not above this. My 75 year old Indian Grandma definitely perceives black people as more of a threat than white people.
All I want is to reach a point in our country where that doesn't happen.
Does it apply to this case? No, not really... But it was more just something I was thinking to myself and posted. "Would this turn out the same way if this kid was black?".
Personally, my answer is no. If you feel it would, then good for you.
So please spare me the troll-ish bullshit about how I'm racist, or some shit.
Also, there's a difference between prejudice and racist. Racism comes from a position of power, while anyone can be prejudiced. It's semantics, but still.
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So sad. I'm sure you can count on your bias coming up in future threads.
You are BBI's ultimate troll. Nothing you're saying makes any sense, but you just keep replying and insulting people to get a rise out of them.
Anyway, you're wrong, and here's why: My post didn't single out white people. You put that in yourself. What I said was that this would have turned out differently if this kid was black. This is because I feel that society as a whole and authorities look at black people as a threat more than white people, if everything else is considered equal.
My own family is not above this. My 75 year old Indian Grandma definitely perceives black people as more of a threat than white people.
All I want is to reach a point in our country where that doesn't happen.
Does it apply to this case? No, not really... But it was more just something I was thinking to myself and posted. "Would this turn out the same way if this kid was black?".
Personally, my answer is no. If you feel it would, then good for you.
So please spare me the troll-ish bullshit about how I'm racist, or some shit.
Also, there's a difference between prejudice and racist. Racism comes from a position of power, while anyone can be prejudiced. It's semantics, but still.
Why are you saying "racist"??? When did I use that word? I said "racial bias". Racial is an adjective used to describe your bias. Do you not know the difference? Are dumb or just stoned?
I can draw my own conclusions, and you're free to draw your own.
Based on my own experiences, experiences of people I know, and what I see around the country, I don't think it would have been the same if this dude was black.
Feel free to disagree; your opinion can differ from mine. But I'm failing to see what's so offensive about feeling that way. It's not an indictment on white people, no matter how much Peter in ATL wants you to think it is.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
You're so witty.
Racist, racial bias, it doesn't matter what you said since you're wrong. Nothing I said implies any racial bas against white people.
And if your getting your panties in a bunch this much about purported racial bias on a message board against whites, you should be counting your fucking lucky stars every night that you aren't of any other different ethnicity or race.
In a college (UConn)dining hall? Yeah, it would have turned out differently. The manager would have been fired.
Personally, I think the cops would have probably been there sooner ...
Maybe it's the assistant who made the 911 call who is the racist..."Hey, take your time in coming over; it's only a white kid".
It is OK to just admit it and then stand by it. But you cannot state based on your posts on this thread there isn't any bias on your part. It meets every criteria for the definition, including believing a certain scenario to be fact.
There's really no problem with that, but I find it odd that you believe what you do and refuse to see it is bias.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
These exact people? Yeah, you're right, I don't know them. But I think there's a multitude of evidence within society as a whole to support that the situation may have turned out differently if some of the variables were changed, including the race of the douchebag. If you're going to tell me there's no evidence within society to support this sentiment, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Essentially, you're saying there's no evidence to believe that people are treated based on skin color. I disagree with that.
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from out of nowhere about how a black kid would have been treated differently when you have no idea. None. Zero. Nada.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
These exact people? Yeah, you're right, I don't know them. But I think there's a multitude of evidence within society as a whole to support that the situation may have turned out differently if some of the variables were changed, including the race of the douchebag. If you're going to tell me there's no evidence within society to support this sentiment, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Essentially, you're saying there's no evidence to believe that people are treated based on skin color. I disagree with that.
All I have said is that you have a racial bias. That is a fact. You refuse to admit it but all anyone has to do is read your posts on this thread to see that you have a bias and it is based on race.
It could have been a shitty Jeep.
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Based on my own experiences, experiences of people I know, and what I see around the country, I don't think it would have been the same if this dude was black
It is OK to just admit it and then stand by it. But you cannot state based on your posts on this thread there isn't any bias on your part. It meets every criteria for the definition, including believing a certain scenario to be fact.
There's really no problem with that, but I find it odd that you believe what you do and refuse to see it is bias.
I get what you're saying. The reason I am deflecting the bias issue is simply because I'm not saying only white people would have treated this guy differently if he was black...I think everyone, whether it was an Asian, Indian, Spanish person, would have treated this guy different if he was black.
I didn't mean for it to be an indictment on white people.
Nobody is perfect and I'm sure we all have our own biases. I just never really thought of myself as having a bias against "white people", since most of the people I've associated with throughout my life are white.
I will readily admit I have biases against certain groups of people, but they typically are a level under race. For example, if someone is from a certain part of the country and has certain viewpoints or presents themselves a certain way (e.g. Confederate Flag), I will probably assume a few things about them.
FMiC, thanks for the civil discourse even though we disagree on certain subjects. Much appreciated.
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In comment 12532712 Randy in CT said:
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from out of nowhere about how a black kid would have been treated differently when you have no idea. None. Zero. Nada.
You could have left this alone and just witnessed how all races act like assholes sometimes.
These exact people? Yeah, you're right, I don't know them. But I think there's a multitude of evidence within society as a whole to support that the situation may have turned out differently if some of the variables were changed, including the race of the douchebag. If you're going to tell me there's no evidence within society to support this sentiment, we'll have to agree to disagree.
Essentially, you're saying there's no evidence to believe that people are treated based on skin color. I disagree with that.
But you pointed to this exact incident and these exact people and saying that this specifically would have been the outcome (as is Phil). Using a generalization to make a conclusion about a specific event. That's almost the very definition of bias.
Yes, you are correct and that was something I've thought about. It definitely occurred to me that I don't know these particular people, and honestly, that manager showed that he probably would NOT act differently based on who was being a dick to him. So you're 100% right.
I'm trying to find a way to subscribe to both at once though... like there has to be a way where these two trains of thought are not at odds with eachother, because I do believe both. On one hand, there's nothing these people did that shows that they would react differently to a POC. On the other hand, I do genuinely think the entire situation may have been more contentious and could have potentially escalated further if the douchebag was black.
I didn't reach my conclusion based on them being white though, and that's why I was refuting the racial bias aspect. I reached my conclusion based on how POCs, particularly black people, have been treated as bigger threats than equivalent whites in the past.
Not sure how I can reconcile these two viewpoints, but I do believe both of them. Like I said earlier in this post, if anything, actions of people like the manager actually prove moreso that they'd make an attempt to de-escalate the situation.
So yeah, you are totally right about passing judgement on the individual people, but I still have my doubts about whether this would have gone down the same way with a black guy. I'm not sure if there's a way to reconcile those two things.
I'm sure his parents paid for his tuition and meal plan so why can't the dude eat? Why is some jackass denying him food? Cuz he's a drunk asshole? Just give him his food and file a complaint.
As for the cell phone camera, LOL, wow what assholes we have today. Nobody would help either of these poor individuals out?? The poor lunch man just trying to follow status quo protocol and this punk spoiled brat just wanting some Mac and cheese before he goes back to the dorm and jerks off for the night
I didn't double down because I'm biased just like all of you - but it's not based on race.
I've made it a conscious point to do this my whole life because I want to believe and try to convince myself that people aren't looking at me and sizing me up based on my race.
Peter, you keep saying racial bias but you haven't pointed out where it's racial. I've said ad nauseum over and over again that I didn't single out white people for thinking that a black person would be more threatening, but rather referred to pretty much everyone. You're trying to twist it into a racial bias against whites.
I think you just wanted to bring race into something which was a confrontation but which had no racial component whatsoever. Just because.
I think you just wanted to bring race into something which was a confrontation but which had no racial component whatsoever. Just because.
obviously race has nothing to do with this story.
I brought it up because someone on another site posted a similar comment and I was thinking about it on my way to work.
Anyway, presented with those two dichotomous options, I still believe that things would have unfolded differently if the guy was black. If a black dude was acting like that and shoved someone in public 3x, I think there would be a stronger response than if a white dude was.
I don't view this as bias against white people because I believe people of pretty much any race would have perceived a black person as a bigger threat.
Other than the manager, who has shown that his cooler head prevails, I have nothing to base this off of other than the interactions I've seen before and read about before.
So it's speculation. And if this speculation crosses the line, then why speculate on any hypotheticals in any situation?
honestly though, I just want to get to a point in our country where the thought of two people being treated differently based on race doesn't even enter the minds of 99% of the population.
- Knew cops were involved
- Knew a young kid was involved
- Saw 180+ posts
- Saw Sonic Youth was most recent
:::clicks thread:::
What about an awesome Impala?
The kid deserved whatever he got the second he put his hands on another human being.
Having said that, unless the worker was under a specific directive to not serve inebriated people or something, he strikes me as a douche on a power trip. If the places around college didn't serve drunk when I was in school, I would've starved to death.
Again, he may have been under orders, in which case, ignore my last statement. But if he wasn't. I'm OK with him being publicly criticized in any way except physically.
- Knew cops were involved
- Knew a young kid was involved
- Saw 180+ posts
- Saw Sonic Youth was most recent
:::clicks thread:::
Nah stories different. Everyone but the kid was pretty awesome in this story.
The kid deserved whatever he got the second he put his hands on another human being.
Having said that, unless the worker was under a specific directive to not serve inebriated people or something, he strikes me as a douche on a power trip. If the places around college didn't serve drunk when I was in school, I would've starved to death.
Again, he may have been under orders, in which case, ignore my last statement. But if he wasn't. I'm OK with him being publicly criticized in any way except physically.
Interesting that you're the only person, who has insinuated that he may have been a douche. Strange take, IMO.
The kid deserved whatever he got the second he put his hands on another human being.
Having said that, unless the worker was under a specific directive to not serve inebriated people or something, he strikes me as a douche on a power trip. If the places around college didn't serve drunk when I was in school, I would've starved to death.
Again, he may have been under orders, in which case, ignore my last statement. But if he wasn't. I'm OK with him being publicly criticized in any way except physically.
Yeah but we dont know what happened that made him initial refuse him service, at least the version I saw. Considering how crazy that kid was, I think he probably did something to warrant being refused service.
Right when the tape rolls, he starts berating the guy for working in food service. What a fucking dipshit thing for a 19 year old to do. This kid sucks and he's gonna have a hard time getting a job after college.
Also, back in my day, we slummed it on Easy Mac. Bacon japapeno Mac N Cheese? Holy hell.
Gerod Roth, who was listed on Facebook as Geris Hilton, posted a selfie with Sydney Shelton's 3-year-old son Cayden on Sept. 16. Roth's friends soon started making extremely racist comments on the picture, saying things like, "I didn't know you were a slave owner" and "But Massuh, I dindu nuffin." Roth himself commented that Cayden "was feral." The post has since been deleted, but not before countless screengrabs were taken.
Link - ( New Window )
"I just really feel upset, not only with myself, but also the character that was based off the comments that my friends had made," Roth told Atlanta's FOX 5 News. "Cayden has been victimized but I have been targeted."
He also claimed to have asked one of his Facebook friends to stop making racist remarks, and said he emailed Shelton an apology, but Shelton told FOX 5 that it didn't seem sincere.
"People post things in a [joking] manner and it gets taken a completely different way but I don't believe any of these people were joking," Shelton said.