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NGT: Mook...Notre Dame vs. Navy this weekend...

RC02XX : 10/7/2015 1:56 pm
Hey buddy...I know you've made your distaste for this particular game well known in the past (for valid reasons on your end), and I don't blame you when the competition was more lopsided than even. However, I think this years game is going to be something special.

Keenan Reynolds, Navy's QB, should be in the Heisman conversation (even though we know who is going to win the award already) the way he's played thus far. And while and argument can be made that they have beaten teams they should have beaten, the fact that they are 4-0 and have just knocked off Air Force in a convincing fashion makes me feel very optimistic about their chances to go undefeated if they can get around your boys from South Bend.

So here to a great tradition, no injuries, and a competitive game.

Oh by the way...here's a little something to start off this back and forth.
Link - ( New Window )
Unfortunately  
MookGiants : 10/7/2015 2:02 pm : link
this series is never going to get canceled. I personally think the debt has been repaid by ND by now, but it's never going to happen. There is never an ounce of upside to this game for ND. Even when they win they always come out of the game banged up.

I haven't seen Navy at all so far this year. Reynolds clearly is having a great season though.
Go Navy  
UConn4523 : 10/7/2015 2:02 pm : link
!
RE: Unfortunately  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 2:14 pm : link
In comment 12532637 MookGiants said:
Quote:
this series is never going to get canceled. I personally think the debt has been repaid by ND by now, but it's never going to happen. There is never an ounce of upside to this game for ND. Even when they win they always come out of the game banged up.

I haven't seen Navy at all so far this year. Reynolds clearly is having a great season though.


I hear you with regards to the benefit of this game to Notre Dame. However, for Navy fans, this is one game of the season that pits Navy against a nationally recognized team in addition to this being a long tradition. With that being said, several of the computer polls/ratings have Navy ranked as high as 20 (S&P+ Ratings) and 24 (Massey Ratings). With Notre Dame ranked in the two 15-20 in most polls, winning this one may catapult Navy into the top 25 in both the AP and Coaches Poll.

And yes, Reynolds is healthy and is playing extremely efficiently in the Triple Option offense.
Why I always am concerned for any  
superspynyg : 10/7/2015 2:20 pm : link
game that ND plays that can be considered a trap game, I do think that playing GT already gives us a good chance to win this game.

While Navy may have a better qb this year than GT, I do think that the talent level around the qb than Navy does.
ND is coming off..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2015 2:23 pm : link
a game against a ranked team. Now they need to rest by taking on all the service academies. Can't wait for the Merchant Marines battle.
RE: ND is coming off..  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 2:33 pm : link
In comment 12532693 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a game against a ranked team. Now they need to rest by taking on all the service academies. Can't wait for the Merchant Marines battle.


So you think ND is going to walk all over Navy? ND may beat them, but I think the game will be very competitive no matter what. I am cautiously optimistic that Navy will pull this one off.
RE: ND is coming off..  
Metnut : 10/7/2015 2:55 pm : link
In comment 12532693 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a game against a ranked team. Now they need to rest by taking on all the service academies. Can't wait for the Merchant Marines battle.


Which service academies besides Navy is ND playing this year?
Oh..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2015 2:56 pm : link
did Air Force, Army and the Sisters of Lourdes drop off the schedule this year?
I would love to see Navy spank them!  
AP in Halfmoon : 10/7/2015 2:59 pm : link
.
RE: Oh..  
Metnut : 10/7/2015 3:06 pm : link
In comment 12532789 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
did Air Force, Army and the Sisters of Lourdes drop off the schedule this year?


I know that they are playing vs USC and @Stanford later this year and already played @Clemson.

I ask again, which service academy other than Navy is ND playing this year? Or, are you just making stuff up?
Of course I'm..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 10/7/2015 3:10 pm : link
just making stuff up. ND fans are so easy to rile up.

I just am feeling nostalgic about their charity games where NBC would build up contest between them and Air Force, Army and Navy and they'd actually get occasionally knocked off, especially if they played BC.

And they would plummet from #4 to #6 the next week.....
RE: ND is coming off..  
section125 : 10/7/2015 3:11 pm : link
In comment 12532693 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
a game against a ranked team. Now they need to rest by taking on all the service academies. Can't wait for the Merchant Marines battle.


It is Merchant Marine (no "s"), and I doubt a Div 3 team piques NDs interest. We did kick Coast Guard's ass again, though.
RE: Of course I'm..  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 3:17 pm : link
In comment 12532830 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
just making stuff up. ND fans are so easy to rile up.

I just am feeling nostalgic about their charity games where NBC would build up contest between them and Air Force, Army and Navy and they'd actually get occasionally knocked off, especially if they played BC.

And they would plummet from #4 to #6 the next week.....


Eh...they'll plummet much farther when a non-ranked Navy beats them. And while the contest in the past half century has been extremely lopsided, recent history is a bit different with Navy taking three of four in a four year span just a few years ago, and the last two contests have been competitive.
a Kings Point man, eh?  
Greg from LI : 10/7/2015 3:17 pm : link
My uncle is one as well.
oh, and go Navy  
Greg from LI : 10/7/2015 3:17 pm : link
.
Hooyah...Go  
rebel yell : 10/7/2015 3:33 pm : link
Navy. This one is winnable!
Notre Dame v. Triple Option  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 3:46 pm : link
I do agree that Notre Dame does gain an advantage v. Navy's triple option by virtue of already having prepared for and played Georgia Tech. However, Navy Coach Ken Niumatalolo raised a good point as well...Navy gains an advantage by virtue of having seen on film how Notre Dame defended the triple option v. GT.

The fact is, this is as usual a physical mismatch. However, Navy's triple option has never been better and Keenan Reynolds is a special player. He is 4 rushing TD's away from tying Monte Ball's NCAA career record of 77. Barring injury he will shatter that record this year (he had 5 earlier this year v. East Carolina).

Navy has played well. East Carolina took Florida to the wall in the Swamp and then beat V Tech. So, how did they do against Navy? Lost 45-21. Navy is for real. Tons of heart and unlimited discipline as usual, but this time they actually have some very, very good athletes, and the triple option is running like a well-oiled machine.

Still, gotta think that Notre Dame's across the board physical mismatches prevail in the end, but wouldn't it be something to see Navy at 5-0 and in the top 25? Either way, if they win this game, it is a real possibility that they go undefeated (thought Memphis in particular will be a tough out).

Gotta love Navy. Great football. Relying on the run, burning the clock, well-timed passing (maybe 6-8 times a game) and a solid, bend but don't break defense. And oh yeah, a team entirely comprised of actual student-athletes. Kinda cool for a college to do that.

They are refreshing to watch and one of the redeeming, admirable stories in college football.
RE: a Kings Point man, eh?  
section125 : 10/7/2015 3:49 pm : link
In comment 12532849 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
My uncle is one as well.


Yes I did my four years in Flidville.....
RE: Notre Dame v. Triple Option  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 3:52 pm : link
In comment 12532933 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
I do agree that Notre Dame does gain an advantage v. Navy's triple option by virtue of already having prepared for and played Georgia Tech. However, Navy Coach Ken Niumatalolo raised a good point as well...Navy gains an advantage by virtue of having seen on film how Notre Dame defended the triple option v. GT.

The fact is, this is as usual a physical mismatch. However, Navy's triple option has never been better and Keenan Reynolds is a special player. He is 4 rushing TD's away from tying Monte Ball's NCAA career record of 77. Barring injury he will shatter that record this year (he had 5 earlier this year v. East Carolina).

Navy has played well. East Carolina took Florida to the wall in the Swamp and then beat V Tech. So, how did they do against Navy? Lost 45-21. Navy is for real. Tons of heart and unlimited discipline as usual, but this time they actually have some very, very good athletes, and the triple option is running like a well-oiled machine.

Still, gotta think that Notre Dame's across the board physical mismatches prevail in the end, but wouldn't it be something to see Navy at 5-0 and in the top 25? Either way, if they win this game, it is a real possibility that they go undefeated (thought Memphis in particular will be a tough out).

Gotta love Navy. Great football. Relying on the run, burning the clock, well-timed passing (maybe 6-8 times a game) and a solid, bend but don't break defense. And oh yeah, a team entirely comprised of actual student-athletes. Kinda cool for a college to do that.

They are refreshing to watch and one of the redeeming, admirable stories in college football.


Very nicely stated, dude. Which part of Maryland are you in? I really need to make it to a home game soon.
Keenan Reynolds  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 3:54 pm : link
BTW, Reynolds is taking 17 credits this semester and is poised to go into Naval Intelligence next summer upon graduation.

If you ever get fatigued with all the me-first narcissism in the news from the chest-thumping politicians, to the entitled kid demanding his mac and cheese (LOL...see earlier thread today)...or even these hideous bastards that shoot their way through classrooms...take a stroll down the Navy roster and check out some of their majors and read some stories about what these real, live student athletes are interested in doing with their lives.

We should all be proud.
RE: RE: Notre Dame v. Triple Option  
section125 : 10/7/2015 4:00 pm : link
In comment 12532948 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 12532933 Maryland Giant said:


Quote:


I do agree that Notre Dame does gain an advantage v. Navy's triple option by virtue of already having prepared for and played Georgia Tech. However, Navy Coach Ken Niumatalolo raised a good point as well...Navy gains an advantage by virtue of having seen on film how Notre Dame defended the triple option v. GT.

The fact is, this is as usual a physical mismatch. However, Navy's triple option has never been better and Keenan Reynolds is a special player. He is 4 rushing TD's away from tying Monte Ball's NCAA career record of 77. Barring injury he will shatter that record this year (he had 5 earlier this year v. East Carolina).

Navy has played well. East Carolina took Florida to the wall in the Swamp and then beat V Tech. So, how did they do against Navy? Lost 45-21. Navy is for real. Tons of heart and unlimited discipline as usual, but this time they actually have some very, very good athletes, and the triple option is running like a well-oiled machine.

Still, gotta think that Notre Dame's across the board physical mismatches prevail in the end, but wouldn't it be something to see Navy at 5-0 and in the top 25? Either way, if they win this game, it is a real possibility that they go undefeated (thought Memphis in particular will be a tough out).

Gotta love Navy. Great football. Relying on the run, burning the clock, well-timed passing (maybe 6-8 times a game) and a solid, bend but don't break defense. And oh yeah, a team entirely comprised of actual student-athletes. Kinda cool for a college to do that.

They are refreshing to watch and one of the redeeming, admirable stories in college football.


You do realize that there is really only one way to correctly defend the triple option and both Navy and ND know this. So it comes down to, can ND play disciplined defense again. If they do, they win. If they don't Navy gives them a very hard time and wins. So whether Ken Niumatalolo has film or not is basically a moot point. He can look for tendencies, but I doubt ND does anything out of the ordinary.
Attending Navy Games---and a great Lou Holtz quote  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:01 pm : link
I am from Ellicott City.

Going to the Navy games is awesome. First, it is a great venue. Small (35,000) but beautiful stadium. Watching the Brigade of Midshipmen march on before a game is, in a word, inspiring.

The stadium is ringed with the names of the major battles engaged in by the USN and USMC. The list includes:

Blue Side (West): Southern France, Anzio, Belleau Wood, Chateau Thierry, Pearl Harbor, Java Sea, Wake, Coral Sea, Midway, Savo Island, Eastern Solomons, Santa Cruz Islands, Guadalcanal, New Georgia, Bougainville, Rabaul, Cape Gloucester, Hollandia, Market Time, Quang Nam, Quang Tin and Quang Ngai.

Gold Side (East): Marianas, Tarawa, Kwaj-alein, Sicily, Philippine Sea, North Africa, Peleliu, Leyte Gulf, Lingayen Gulf, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Salerno, Normandy, Inchon, Chosin Reservoir, Battle of the Atlantic, Mekong Delta, Thua Thien, Quang Tri, Yankee Station, Desert Storm and Aleutian Campaign.

So, the first time Lou Holtz walks in the stadium, he looks up, reads "Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Normandy, Mekong Delta..." and says, "Wow, they play a tough schedule."
Sec. 125  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:07 pm : link
Not going to engage in a dissertation regarding the range of subtle defensive options to employ in defending the triple option of which there are a number. You are correct, it is overwhelmingly responsibility based defense that almost compels defense to forget everything they have learned and to focus instead on assignment football. So, yes, I am aware of what your point is.

Anyway, I believe Coach Niumatalolo's comments were more geared at their ability to analyze Notre Dame's position specific reactions to Georgia Tech's option and where (and where not) some vulnerabilities may lie.

In any event, it should be a fun game to watch.
RE: Keenan Reynolds  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 4:08 pm : link
In comment 12532952 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
BTW, Reynolds is taking 17 credits this semester and is poised to go into Naval Intelligence next summer upon graduation.

If you ever get fatigued with all the me-first narcissism in the news from the chest-thumping politicians, to the entitled kid demanding his mac and cheese (LOL...see earlier thread today)...or even these hideous bastards that shoot their way through classrooms...take a stroll down the Navy roster and check out some of their majors and read some stories about what these real, live student athletes are interested in doing with their lives.

We should all be proud.


While not trying to throw stones at a storied institution, not all Navy football players (or anyone else) are saints or even fit the student/athlete description. While for the most part these players/midshipmen are part of the academy, many don't really live the life of your typical midshipmen. Even at the Naval Academy, you have your share of athletes just getting by because they play football.
RE: Attending Navy Games---and a great Lou Holtz quote  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 4:08 pm : link
In comment 12532967 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
I am from Ellicott City.

Going to the Navy games is awesome. First, it is a great venue. Small (35,000) but beautiful stadium. Watching the Brigade of Midshipmen march on before a game is, in a word, inspiring.

The stadium is ringed with the names of the major battles engaged in by the USN and USMC. The list includes:

Blue Side (West): Southern France, Anzio, Belleau Wood, Chateau Thierry, Pearl Harbor, Java Sea, Wake, Coral Sea, Midway, Savo Island, Eastern Solomons, Santa Cruz Islands, Guadalcanal, New Georgia, Bougainville, Rabaul, Cape Gloucester, Hollandia, Market Time, Quang Nam, Quang Tin and Quang Ngai.

Gold Side (East): Marianas, Tarawa, Kwaj-alein, Sicily, Philippine Sea, North Africa, Peleliu, Leyte Gulf, Lingayen Gulf, Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Salerno, Normandy, Inchon, Chosin Reservoir, Battle of the Atlantic, Mekong Delta, Thua Thien, Quang Tri, Yankee Station, Desert Storm and Aleutian Campaign.

So, the first time Lou Holtz walks in the stadium, he looks up, reads "Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Normandy, Mekong Delta..." and says, "Wow, they play a tough schedule."


Wait...do you work for Navy PAO?
No, I have no affiliation with the Naval Academy other than:  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:12 pm : link
1. I am a fan.
2. My daughter will be a Plebe there next summer.
Lou Holtz Quote  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:13 pm : link
That came directly out of a book I am reading about the 1963 Army-Navy game played just a couple weeks after Kennedy's assassination.

RE: No, I have no affiliation with the Naval Academy other than:  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 4:19 pm : link
In comment 12532985 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
1. I am a fan.
2. My daughter will be a Plebe there next summer.


Awesome...congrats to your daughter and to you and your wife.

Words of advice from an old grad (I can now say that), Plebe Summer and Plebe Year as a whole are just long painful game. Don't stress too much over it since in the grand scheme of things, it won't mean jack squat. Focus on your work, make lasting relationships, and just smile and say "yes, sir" to all the asshole upperclass, who are going to try to make her life miserable. It will all come to an end, then she won't give a damn about what they did or said to her during Plebe Summer and Plebe Year.
Football players at Navy  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:21 pm : link
All DI athletes at the Academy have special travel privileges and do get out of some of the marching and drilling due to sports responsibilities. And, no, not every kid is nailing down a 4.0 in Electrical Engineering.

However, all 4,400 mids live in the same single dormitory (Bancroft is the largest dorm in the world), the football players---and all of the DI athletes---are not cordoned off in any way. They live with their peers, and by that I mean fellow mids...not other football players.

Nobody gets by at the Academy by being just a football player. That is simply speaking an inherently false statement. Again, not saying they are all future computer scientists, and there are easier majors than others (Political Science and History for example).

But here is the deal...everybody has to graduate in 4 years and they do so with a Bachelor of Science based on the significant core STEM requirements.

The Academies are not full of perfect people...100% right...they are a bunch of college kids. But, that's actually what they are...college kids. Playing football and other DI sports, and tending to military requirements, and loading up to 18 credits a semester, and working most of their summers on assignment all over the world.
Great advice...  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:23 pm : link
...I will make sure my kid reads that. She loves it there. She has already stayed multiple nights on campus (Candidate visit and sports visits) and is ready to roll.

She "gets" the Plebe summer thing, has seen it up close and personal on her visits, and is excited about the challenge.

Thank you for the hard-earned advice.
RE: Football players at Navy  
RC02XX : 10/7/2015 4:26 pm : link
In comment 12533001 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
All DI athletes at the Academy have special travel privileges and do get out of some of the marching and drilling due to sports responsibilities. And, no, not every kid is nailing down a 4.0 in Electrical Engineering.

However, all 4,400 mids live in the same single dormitory (Bancroft is the largest dorm in the world), the football players---and all of the DI athletes---are not cordoned off in any way. They live with their peers, and by that I mean fellow mids...not other football players.

Nobody gets by at the Academy by being just a football player. That is simply speaking an inherently false statement. Again, not saying they are all future computer scientists, and there are easier majors than others (Political Science and History for example).

But here is the deal...everybody has to graduate in 4 years and they do so with a Bachelor of Science based on the significant core STEM requirements.

The Academies are not full of perfect people...100% right...they are a bunch of college kids. But, that's actually what they are...college kids. Playing football and other DI sports, and tending to military requirements, and loading up to 18 credits a semester, and working most of their summers on assignment all over the world.


I don't mean to come off argumentative, but you're talking to a guy, who spent four years with many of his great friends being football players at the academy. And with a good friend currently on the coaching staff. While you may want to believe in the goodness of the academy and rightly so since your child will attend, it's not nearly as idealistic as you may think.

The academy has warts that are not really seen by the public, but it has them nonetheless. The faster you realize that, the more appreciative you'll be of the institution, as you'll see that it's no different than vast majority of great institutions of higher learning.
I appreciate your perspective...but keep this in mind...  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 4:32 pm : link
...you are talking to a guy that played football at a public university.

While you undoubtedly saw from your perspective fellow athletes that were not participating academically to the same extent you were, I can assure you that compared to the rest of Division IA or BCS football (or whatever it is called now) it's a pretty sound program. I mean, we are talking about places where going to class is optional, many of the classes are farcical (assuming they exist at all---see UNC), and where graduation is not a requirement, or even a goal for most of the participants.

But, whatever, either way, GO NAVY!
RE: Sec. 125  
section125 : 10/7/2015 5:04 pm : link
In comment 12532977 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
Not going to engage in a dissertation regarding the range of subtle defensive options to employ in defending the triple option of which there are a number. You are correct, it is overwhelmingly responsibility based defense that almost compels defense to forget everything they have learned and to focus instead on assignment football. So, yes, I am aware of what your point is.

Anyway, I believe Coach Niumatalolo's comments were more geared at their ability to analyze Notre Dame's position specific reactions to Georgia Tech's option and where (and where not) some vulnerabilities may lie.

In any event, it should be a fun game to watch.


You are correct of course. I tend to over simplify. The game is going to be very good and Navy plays the option extremely well. I get torn in this game as I root for both teams.
Sec125  
Maryland Giant : 10/7/2015 5:18 pm : link
No worries man...it will hopefully be a competitive game. Navy lost a key defensive player last week with a broken ankle. Huge injury because Bertrand was a stud safety that had been playing great and was one of the reasons the defense had been playing so well.

So, next man up.
RE: RE: a Kings Point man, eh?  
Pete in MD : 10/7/2015 5:26 pm : link
In comment 12532943 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 12532849 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


My uncle is one as well.
My dad and uncle are both King's Pointers. We went to pretty much every home football game when I was a kid. My dad still goes to most of them.



Yes I did my four years in Flidville.....
Not sure how  
Pete in MD : 10/7/2015 5:34 pm : link
my comment got imbedded in the quote. My dad and uncle went to USMMA. I went to many football games growing up. The Coast Guard rivalry was awesome.
RE: Not sure how  
section125 : 10/7/2015 5:47 pm : link
In comment 12533120 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
my comment got imbedded in the quote. My dad and uncle went to USMMA. I went to many football games growing up. The Coast Guard rivalry was awesome.


Pete what classes were they. I'm '78.
Section125  
Pete in MD : 10/7/2015 8:38 pm : link
My dad graduated in '69, my uncle in '80.
RE: Section125  
section125 : 10/7/2015 8:50 pm : link
In comment 12533359 Pete in MD said:
Quote:
My dad graduated in '69, my uncle in '80.


Chance I might know your uncle then.

Small world and Greg from LI's uncle too.

Sad time in the industry with El Faro going down.
RE: I appreciate your perspective...but keep this in mind...  
RC02XX : 10/8/2015 1:44 am : link
In comment 12533028 Maryland Giant said:
Quote:
...you are talking to a guy that played football at a public university.

While you undoubtedly saw from your perspective fellow athletes that were not participating academically to the same extent you were, I can assure you that compared to the rest of Division IA or BCS football (or whatever it is called now) it's a pretty sound program. I mean, we are talking about places where going to class is optional, many of the classes are farcical (assuming they exist at all---see UNC), and where graduation is not a requirement, or even a goal for most of the participants.

But, whatever, either way, GO NAVY!


Gotcha...in comparing only the football programs, complete understand where you're coming from.

My points were more general, and I apologize if that was not clearly stated. You seem to have great admiration for the institution that your daughter will be a part of, and that's a great thing. However, my points regarding the warts was that while the Naval Academy, like its sister service academies, is a great institution for both academics and for civic virtues, it is still a large institution with its faults and shortcomings. That's all.

One of the nicer things though is that for the time being it appears that we'll be moving into sort of a lull or peacetime military. Always a reassuring thing knowing that as a parent the most precious part of your life will hopefully not have to endure what we've gone through for the past decade-plus. As a parent of two little ones, I hope that my two smalls will one day follow in my footsteps but will be fortunate enough to spend their service time in peacetime military.

But as you said, whatever...lets focus on the big game this weekend! Go Navy!
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