I wrote last week that we could/should beat the McCoy and Watkin Less Bills handily. There are people who still think the game was a fluke..it wasn't and we'd beat them easily if we played them again.
A few Points:
COUGHLIN demonstrated his courage and coaching genius once again. Two brutal losses and another team might have fallen apart = particularly because of the way we lost..
THE DIVISION is ours...insomuch as it can be after four games. I know all the things that can happen, but the Dallas injury list probably means we SHOULD win this easily. I think Dallas is a very good team, but we catch them before Romo comes back. I also think that while it's unlikely that Philly could still be tough, they might somehow get it together but by next week they could also be in free fall. And unlike TC Chip won't be able to stay their fall...a few three and outs that take two minutes off the clock and the defense is going to revolt. And full time shot gun and Pistol means no play action and guys like Spags have gone to school on that.
THE DEFENSE has been blasted here (and even more so on some other blogging sites) but I've written many times that we have four all pro types and that's enough to
forge a unit.
We have really servicable honest pros too... Ayers, Selvy, Thomas, Cassillas Jenkins (I think he's underrated)Bromley, Hosley (never thought I'd write that), McBride nice players you can win with when you have a brilliant core of Cromartie, Prince, Kennard and Hankins.
THE SAFETY'S surprise and by the end of the year a presumed weakness is going to be a strength, not only in cover but this duo is going to knock some heads off.
CONCLUSION NO 1. THE DEFENSE
The front four is not as dynamic as the superbowl teams. But they are going to come on and maybe Odi, Moore and Ayers can improve the rush. But the back seven is better than those teams and this group is only getting used to Spags systems.
THE OFFENSE LINE CAN BE SUPERB when Beatty returns. I start with R. Brown, Stroud and Witika...this group has more potential. I think we're going to see good play from Schwartz starting around now. Flowers, Pugh and Richenberg are going to fill that difficult definition of "all pro types" and maybe (likely?) exceed it. The nice thing is we're close to having great depth too...Newhouse (when Beatty comes back), Jerry and Reynolds might not be great ballplayers but they are great and almost seamless fill ins in this era of the cap.
I THOUGHT WE COULD RUN ON BUFFALO and we did. We have three backs that are superb as a group, the line is starting to jell, Beckham alone means 8 in the box is suicide....I think the three headed hydra of running backs against that are goiong to be superb, varied and punishing. Watch out, we've only just seen the coming attractions...
BECKHAM...is indiscribable. Three Giants in fifty years made me gush the first time they stepped on the field:Tucker Fredrickson, LT and Shockey. you can't have a bad offense as long as this kid is healthy.
THE TIGHT END kills me. It's the only position I don't see something special happening, boy wouldn't a decent two way tight end be the icing. But maybe we sneak by and you can't , after all, have everything ....though once Cruz comes back we'll be close.
CONCLUSION NO. 2 THE OFFENSE..It would be nice if Cruz came back, but even without him Harris and Randall are going to be enough to support Beckham. And if they're coupled with Vereen they are going to make life difficult for even the stoutest defense. Open them up, beat them up.
This is an offense that can dominate in all ways...grind it out punishing ball control when we're ahead...the ability to go long when we need to or have to come from behind. We've never had this flexiblity or this many dimensions.
. The offensive line is going to be dominate when Beatty comes back, the running backs are underrated, varied and punishing, safe (no fumblers) and strong. Eli and Macadoo take those ingredients and build something special.
CONCLUSION NO 3..This is the BEST SPECIAL TEAMES we've ever had. The kicking game, coverage and returns are all superb. Thank you JR for Harris....slot, coverage and returns...toughness
SUMMARY...We catch a break with the Dallas injuries - make no mistake about it. I respect them but I think they are just about out of it...New England this wknd and then us on the 25th.
I think Wilson's contract is going to hurt Seattle.
I can see Green Bay beating us in the playoffs - the cards or Seattle less likely..but possible and there's alway room for a surprise emerging. Call it premature and fanciful, but I think the only other thing that can beat us is injuries.
The Buffalo win will look inevitable soon, so will this Giant edition as a superbowl contender.
Rejoice all you fans...soak your heads all you naysayers.
Also, Those first two loses are still on the teams mind. Just how being drafted at 199 and dropping in the first rounds is still on them inds of brady and rogers. They are not over it. Especially with no one giving the giants any credit.
It's good to be King Coughlin!
We still lack a playmaker on the D-Line that can carry us against a string of tough QB's (we had them our last 2 runs).
All things being equal it is the QB that sets you apart.
I stopped at the SAFETY'S SURPRISE.
What surprise do they have in store? Maybe all lowercase would be better and call it, safeties surprise
I stopped at the SAFETY'S SURPRISE.
What surprise do they have in store? Maybe all lowercase would be better and call it, safeties surprise
lolol
I remember posting in a similar style in high school on the AOL message boards and claiming that Tim Carter was on his way to the Pro Bowl.
He's young and enjoying his Giants. The brain power will come.
And I really dont understand this line either:
the Buffalo win already happened. WTF.
The Buffalo win...inevitable" was intellectually beyond another pin head to understand, so he tells us we'd already played Buffalo and is proud of himself. The thought was..as it becomes increasingly evident that this Giant team is good the win will appear inevitable instead of lucky. I should have dumbed it down for dummies and stayed away from Polysyllabic words.
I'm not sure you really want that, because you'll go from just mildly annoying people with CAPS to being considered a raving fucking lunatic.
It was plenty dumb, and it was naturally that way.
The Buffalo win...inevitable" was intellectually beyond another pin head to understand, so he tells us we'd already played Buffalo and is proud of himself. The thought was..as it becomes increasingly evident that this Giant team is good the win will appear inevitable instead of lucky. I should have dumbed it down for dummies and stayed away from Polysyllabic words.
Haha dude, I won't address the majority of this nonsensical post, but I'll help you with one thing.
For something to be inevitable, it can not have already occurred. It has to be a future event. Therefore, the Bills win can't be inevitable, as it has already happened.
You were going for something more like: The thought was..as it becomes increasingly evident that this Giant team is good the win will appear appropriate instead of lucky.
Make sense?
WTH? The team is startng to look better, I'll give you that. I believe they can compete well and for that, I'm happily surprised.
Terps is right though: A beat down in prime time Sunday night and the wheels will start to fall off. They should beat San Francisco if they plan on getting ahead in the division. 49ers are down for the count again and if our Giants don't win this game, they will only have themselves to blame when they miss the playoffs yet again by having one too many losses.
Now consider you're wrong...because something CAN appear "inevitable" in retrospect and that's the sense that that was written in.... "given perspective the win will appear inevitable and not a consequence of luck" That takes certain assumptions on your part that you're incapable of and all you're doing is advertising stupidity. I doubt , for instance, that you even get it now.
And you're going to say I'm being snotty...but fact is you really didn't have the brains to get it and if you were right you're wrong cause it doesn't matter..You are stupid and barely literate that what matters and it's inevitable, irrevocable, irreducable and maybe non refundable.
All things being equal it is the QB that sets you apart.
Sadly for many teams, this is true. I didn't believe it until we got Eli. The Kerry Collin's of the NFL can only win the big one if the rest of the team is outstanding. Very rare for that to happen. You have to have a real good QB to win it.
Um, Griz is a very very old poster.
who are these people?
Sincerely confused BBI member
Again no real relevancy just something for to latch on to and try for a feeling of empowerment that's revealing.
but you're right, starting a post here is stupid and It won't happen again.
Again no real relevancy just something for to latch on to and try for a feeling of empowerment that's revealing.
but you're right, starting a post here is stupid and It won't happen again.
i knew them just didn't recognize them as i was thinking about 2015.
We glamorize. We won superbowls with Madison, Torbor, Mitchell, Wilson, Ross, a tired and small Antonio
Pierce. Do you think they'd start on this team Would even
Webster start.?
We think of Bradshaw's Steelers as the measuing stick. The fact is, the cap impacts everything and you simply will not have all stars at every position.
I think we have enough and I think the Bill win showed that. No one can predict a superbowl, I think we're going to be in the hunt and that some of the bad luck we're endured is evening out.
The following sentence means nothing other than exactly what it says: I felt worse about the 2011 team after 3 games than this team.
Could this team turn it on and make something happen? Sure. Do I think we are a bonafide Super Bowl contender? no.
But this team CAN get hot at the right time and CAN beat any team in the league, particularly since Eli doesn't turn the ball over anymore (wtf, I never thought I would ever write that, ever).
We won two Championships with an aggressive downfield passing attack and a D-line that literally knocked out opposing QBs. I'd love to see us win one with the opposite philosophy - a methodical offense with a bend don't break D - but honestly, nothing matters till we get into the playoffs.
We have one of the best underdog coach/qb tandems, if not THE best underdog coach/qb tandem, in the history of the NFL. Step 1: get into the playoffs. Step 2: see what the fuck happens.
just get us in.... just get us the fuck in...
We glamorize. We won superbowls with Madison, Torbor, Mitchell, Wilson, Ross, a tired and small Antonio
Pierce. Do you think they'd start on this team Would even
Webster start.?
We think of Bradshaw's Steelers as the measuing stick. The fact is, the cap impacts everything and you simply will not have all stars at every position.
I think we have enough and I think the Bill win showed that. No one can predict a superbowl, I think we're going to be in the hunt and that some of the bad luck we're endured is evening out.
I agree with your sentiments, but Madison would be a nickel on this team (maybe not a nicke cause he isn't quick enough, but he'd be covering one of the top 3 WRs, prob the slowest one), Mitchell would start at MLB, Wilson and Ross were both solid players in 07 at that point in time, and Pierce definitely wasn't washed up - it was his 2nd year with us.
That 07 team was way more talented than this one. I don't know if
11 was, but 11 had the talent where it counted - WR and QB. Cruz - Nicks - Manningham with peak Eli was lethal, and that's what brought it home from us.
Going off my tangential conversation, I really love the fact that we have one Superbowl that was solely on the shoulders of Eli. 07 was definitely something that Eli managed over the courses of the games (his amazing plays not withstanding, which honestly might invalidate my whole argument).... but 2011???
2011 was all Eli. That was his team. The Dallas JPP block game was still, to this day, the best game I've seen Eli play, and the '11 NFC champ game was 2nd best. (rams 05 might be 3rd)
There's something about him - he just gets the most out of his players.
i think a healthy Cruz is the biggest key to the season. JPP might actually impact the team more, but there's no way he can come back 100%;.
A healthy Cruz impacts out entire offense to a level that nobody is even considering. Cruz was at his best when Nicks commanded attention. ObJ commands more attention than Nicks ever did. An 85% Cruz will beat 1:1 coverage. And that will also leave Randle on an island alone.
Cruz was the best slot WR in the game for 2 years (though McAdoo says all WRs learn all positions, which I kind of don't believe, though I have no evidence and am probably wrong).
Healthy Cruz changes this entire offense, and keeps them on the field longer, benefiting the D even. JPP would be nice to have back, but the most he can do is be a situational pass rusher IMO.
This team needs Cruz, and if they can't get Cruz, they need to sign Welker. Welker won't necessarily command attention, but at least he can be 1:1 matchups. I'm not as pissed about James Jones as others, because frankly, JJ woudln't be close to as good on the Giants as the packers... but Parker dropped the ball, and SOMEBODY needs to step up there, because right now, our only true offensive weapon is OBJ. Someone needs to step up and take the pressure off, and I'm not talking about 6 year curls to Vereen.
We glamorize. We won superbowls with Madison, Torbor, Mitchell, Wilson, Ross, a tired and small Antonio
Pierce. Do you think they'd start on this team Would even
Webster start.?
We think of Bradshaw's Steelers as the measuing stick. The fact is, the cap impacts everything and you simply will not have all stars at every position.
I think we have enough and I think the Bill win showed that. No one can predict a superbowl, I think we're going to be in the hunt and that some of the bad luck we're endured is evening out.
Well our TE's cant catch and none we have right now are know for blocking.
Unless we get healthy and we see the Old Cruz we don't have a consistent WR outside of OBJ.
Our line has been decent, but we haven't shown we can run consistently especially at the end of a game when we need to grind down the clock.
On Defense we've been very solid against the run, but horrible against the pass. Teams have moved the ball at will in the passing game when they want to.
We are playing great team ball, but outside of a secondary there are no stars right now. When we do start to show promise they get injured. Our D line has been solid and great against the run, but we can't seem to keep them on the field. How long can that continue?
OK, granted, but are you unrealistic? In the day of the cap you are not going to have outstanding players at every position and I'll remind you again..this team won with Torbor and Blackburn, Madison and Wilson.
Unless we get healthy and we see the Old Cruz we don't have a consistent WR outside of OBJ.
OH buloney. The maligned Randall was hurt early, he's much better than he's given credit for. And Harris is a nice slot addition. More than that, Vereen is a bonus and a big one. The idea that Cruz is critical is one I disagree with. It would be nice to have him back,, but Harris, Randall, Beckham and Vereem are diversified and solid. And to see things so negatively is again a mind set bumping in the reality.
Our line has been decent, but we haven't shown we can run consistently especially at the end of a game when we need to grind down the clock.
C'mon that's an urge to be negative again and is almost unsupportable.... it's a line that absolutely has every single member in a new position and has four games together. Buffalo has the best run defense in football and arguably the best (and highest paid) front seven.. We started to run effectively on them. How you turn that into something bad is almost about an agenda and not the facts. Barring injuries this running attack should be dynamic...I am salivating at the thought of Flowers, Pugh and Richenberg taking over games..and the Williams kid (who is much better than I thought he'd be) punishing teams late. It's coming as cleaning as tomorrow's dawn.
On Defense we've been very solid against the run, but horrible against the pass. Teams have moved the ball at will in the passing game when they want to.
Man what hyperbole..."teams have moved the ball at will" Really!
We've been ahead in every fourth quarter, we've shut down the villains' run game stone cold dead, they've passed and been modestly effective with the tight end because they had no choice..you make that a negative.
We need a better pass rush. Agreed. That's very different from "Moved the ball at will" If that was true we'd have lost every game. Spags is still getting this defense used to his system, he will dial up some better blitzes and I think Odi might bring something to the table too. But even without a pass rush this is nice defense that is harassing the QB even if they haven't finished it well...YET
We are playing great team ball, but outside of a secondary there are no stars right now. When we do start to show promise they get injured. Our D line has been solid and great against the run, but we can't seem to keep them on the field. How long can that continue?
Disagree... I think Kennard,Hankins are great stars, How can you say there's no stars except Cromartie and Prince...and say it with such certainty...Immoderate words producing immoderate convictions. Four all pro types on defense and lots of very good players. And injuries are part of the game...Selvy and Avery are out this week...so what? How does that justify your gloom about injuries on the d line?
Look at everybody's roster, the modern player gets hurt. We have Ellis, Kuhn, Jenkins, Bromley,Nikita, Hankins, Moore and Odi ready to go and you make it sound like the sky is falling with the front four. That's your mind set, it 's not reality.
OK, granted, but are you unrealistic? In the day of the cap you are not going to have outstanding players at every position and I'll remind you again..this team won with Torbor and Blackburn, Madison and Wilson.
Unless we get healthy and we see the Old Cruz we don't have a consistent WR outside of OBJ.
OH buloney. The maligned Randall was hurt early, he's much better than he's given credit for. And Harris is a nice slot addition. More than that, Vereen is a bonus and a big one. The idea that Cruz is critical is one I disagree with. It would be nice to have him back,, but Harris, Randall, Beckham and Vereem are diversified and solid. And to see things so negatively is again a mind set bumping in the reality.
Our line has been decent, but we haven't shown we can run consistently especially at the end of a game when we need to grind down the clock.
C'mon that's an urge to be negative again and is almost unsupportable.... it's a line that absolutely has every single member in a new position and has four games together. Buffalo has the best run defense in football and arguably the best (and highest paid) front seven.. We started to run effectively on them. How you turn that into something bad is almost about an agenda and not the facts. Barring injuries this running attack should be dynamic...I am salivating at the thought of Flowers, Pugh and Richenberg taking over games..and the Williams kid (who is much better than I thought he'd be) punishing teams late. It's coming as cleaning as tomorrow's dawn.
On Defense we've been very solid against the run, but horrible against the pass. Teams have moved the ball at will in the passing game when they want to.
Man what hyperbole..."teams have moved the ball at will" Really!
We've been ahead in every fourth quarter, we've shut down the villains' run game stone cold dead, they've passed and been modestly effective with the tight end because they had no choice..you make that a negative.
We need a better pass rush. Agreed. That's very different from "Moved the ball at will" If that was true we'd have lost every game. Spags is still getting this defense used to his system, he will dial up some better blitzes and I think Odi might bring something to the table too. But even without a pass rush this is nice defense that is harassing the QB even if they haven't finished it well...YET
We are playing great team ball, but outside of a secondary there are no stars right now. When we do start to show promise they get injured. Our D line has been solid and great against the run, but we can't seem to keep them on the field. How long can that continue?
Disagree... I think Kennard,Hankins are great stars, How can you say there's no stars except Cromartie and Prince...and say it with such certainty...Immoderate words producing immoderate convictions. Four all pro types on defense and lots of very good players. And injuries are part of the game...Selvy and Avery are out this week...so what? How does that justify your gloom about injuries on the d line?
Look at everybody's roster, the modern player gets hurt. We have Ellis, Kuhn, Jenkins, Bromley,Nikita, Hankins, Moore and Odi ready to go and you make it sound like the sky is falling with the front four. That's your mind set, it 's not reality.
Let me start off by saying, this is a debate I don’t even enjoy having. I would love to be proven wrong and hopefully I will be throughout the season. It’s also very hard to even respond to you because of the format you use. I’ll just jump on a few points.
I’m not asking for outstanding players throughout the roster. When we are talking about SB’s or teams good enough to win one; I tend to compare rosters of previous winners.
You bring up our weakness at LB and the secondary. While I agree our Corners are much better than the last two SB teams, we also had a Hall of Famer on the 2007 team and some all time great Giants on the defensive line. Will any of the current players become that? Hopefully, but we have nothing to base that on yet.
The receiving corps on both of the last two SB teams were much better as a whole then this one. IF we get Cruz back, you could argue they are comparable, but not until that point.
And yes I get that injuries happen in the NFL. However, I think our other SB teams had better depth and talent to handle the injuries they sustained. You call Hankins and Kennard Stars, which I certainly hopes happen. However, I think you have a loose definition of a star player, which is funny when you just accuse me of hyperbole in that same paragraph.
re: receivers...Plaxico was superb and a great run blocker...But Beckham is in a different league. I also think Toomer was a nice receiver and not much more. I think Randall / Harris are his equal.
Now you have to include Veereen in the mix no matter where he lines up.
Big edge , in my judgement , to the current crew. Even if it was only Beckham and two palookas.