Just a bunch of questions....
Are you impressed by the system? Are you not impressed by this system? Did it live up to your expectations? Better? Eli? Do you think he's better here or in Gilbride's system?
Are you still excited to see more? is it a personal issue that you think needs fixed? What?
I'm looking at Donnell in particular and think he had a good year last year but most of his damage was done against the Redskins in that one Thursday night game. I don't think he's necessarily the worst thing in the world, but I'd like to see a better Tight end in this system (obviously) OBJ is going to get the attention so other guys need to make other teams pay for that and I'm anxiously awaiting the day that Cruz is on the field during game time. I also think that Randle is a very essential part to this 2015 team.
I also really like the Ereck Flowers draft choice. I just want to see this team go 11-5 and beat up on this division without Romo and ...Sam bradford. and fuck the Redskins. 2015 is about the Giants in the NFC East.
Like someone said earlier, For whatever reason, Gilbride's offense was torture to watch in the last couple of years.
This offense will start to pick up more yards and big plays as the season progresses.
It's only been 20 games but seems like a lifetime ago.
The Oline should keep getting better the more they play together. Which should mean the run game keeps improving & that also should help Eli out.
If the Offense continues to improve I just don't see how McAdoo doesn't take over the HC position when Coughlin decides to retire.
Better than our previous offense?
No offense.....but if you look at Gilbrides tenure with The Giants,we put up points,yards...and when it all worked together...wins and SB titles.
Gilbrides revamped run and shoot didn't fail this team. The terrible Oline play (lack of talent with a combination of injuries and players getting old) contributed to all of that.
I like our new offense. But until we put up the points,yards and success that our previous offense was able to achieve...(you get my point)
Remember in 2008 we had two 1000 yard RB's in this offense.
I do wish we had better RBs. Jennings is a c+ back, Vereen can only catch the ball, and Williams is pretty much a developmental project. I salivate at the thought of what Wilson could have done for this offense, but what's done is done.
One thing I miss are the big plays. We were truly blessed - we got to see our team win TWO superbowls with the core tenents of "knock the shit out of the team's QB and get him out of the game" and "either power run up their throat or throw the ball down the fucking field".... which is a really awesome way to see your team win a SB.
I've digressed, but I do like McAdoos offense and truly wonder what Eli's numbers would look like if he played in this offense his whole career as opposed to Gilbride's GO BIG OR GO HOME offense. Can't really complain though - we've got 2 rings (FUCK YES).
But I do think the perception of Eli is negatively skewed due to the risky offense. Whatever.... I root for the laundry, not the guy wearing it, but Eli is an exception and he's already 1A NYC athletes that I've seen growing up in my heart (hank is #1B)
had a couple beers and typing too stream of consciousness.
We should be lighting up the league
The first year with MacAdoo Eli threw the ball 601 times... Second closest was 2011 with 589.
The first year with MacAdoo Eli threw the ball 601 times... Second closest was 2011 with 589.
It's very annoying to hear fans of other NFL teams repeat the same tired mantra of Eli turning the ball over too much, when he protected the ball well in 2014 and had a high % of his turnovers come in one game.
I guess it just shows that preconceived notions about players stick.
I think it was AnishPatel on this board that always said that he wished Eli got more time in a QB friendly system so that he could see where Eli's stats would end up, and so that Eli'd be looked down on more favorably in the history books. While rings matter most, I do wish I could see what Eli's stats would look like if he had played in a west coast, safer pass offense his whole career.
But holy shit, the East Coast Offense was fun from 2005-2012.... Play action, throw the ball down the field. I did LOVE it.
Eli's short - mid area passing is improving slowly and if he really nails it down he will have all the elite stats fwiw, likely means we're playing well overall. Also think the biggest issue outside of the clock mgmt gaffes are simply execution (drops mainly). But we've helped the OL at all 5 spots getting the ball out quickly
One Q is i've always heard this was TCs run game. In some ways, esp short yardage & goaline it seems similar to the old O, tho iirc this yr we've run more out of somewhat obv power situations. If so I'd prefer more mix like from 3-4 WR sets (even the KG draw), esp with the threat from the improved short passing game. IMO might help the RZ% as well
I don't think we've seen how great our passing attack (or offense overall) can be in this MacAdoo offense. I'd like to see a dominant running attack again, and what our passing game would look like with a legit #2 next to Beckham. If we can somehow get a two-way TE, a healthy Cruz (or a legit #2 through the draft or FA), this offense would be tough to stop.
He's done it largely with a subpar set of surrounding talent, really only having one WR of real value (though he's of tremendous value, so far), an OL in transition, awful TEs, and a less than stellar run game (because of the RBs and the OL), too.
McAdoo's offense is designed for the QB to get rid of the ball quickly. The combination of the short quick passes, better offensive line play and 4th quarter leads in every game are the reason Eli's interceptions are down this year.
I miss the consistent down field bombs to Burress and Nicks. Hopefully, if Cruz comes back and offensive line continues to play well, Eli will open it up again with OBJ!
jtfuoco : 10/9/2015 10:25 pm : link : reply
But the give up play on 3rd and long drive me crazy. I mean 3rd and 12 is not that hard to get as I watch even the bad teams pull it off quite often
I'd also get rid of that short pass completion on third down, that doesn't get a first down....
The TC influence is still there....the offense puts up 16 points early in the game, and then goes into balance mode, trying to run the ball.....next thing you know we don't score until the fourth quarter, with a great individual play by Jennings....
You can't count on this defense yet.....two td's were called back on penalties, and their kicker missed a 30 yarder....turnovers and penalties have helped this defense quite a bit.....each week, they look better, but they aren't there yet....It's imperative that this offense continues to score, making the opposing offenses one dimensional, and easier to defend....
Also years latter he will be described as clutch performer not
turnover machine.
Brady will always be remembered by the cheating scandals.
And that Eli beat him twice.
We've never seen Cruz and OBJ on the field together, either
and this team has the 2nd most no huddles in the league behind philly. all the snark about chip kelly exhausting his own defense might come back to bite us here
I agree, I love what I see thus far. If we had better talent, I am sure we would be getting even better production out of our offense. I love the fact that eli is putting up good numbers.
Makes me wonder if we ran a system like this, what would the option of Eli be. High Qb rating, good amount of TDs, and barely any Ints. Hopefully we can continue this system until Eli retires and get better personnel to make our offense even more productive.
With that said, when Gilbride had the pieces he needed and the offense was clicking there was no other offense I would want to the Giants running. At one point the Giants imposed their will on teams on the ground and lit them up with big plays whenever the opportunity presented itself. Gilbride's offense unfortunately required a good offensive line, a ballsy QB, and receivers smarter and harder working than the average WR out there. Near the end the Giants had none of the pieces to run that offense.
This offense is easier to find pieces for and hides the fact the Giants don't have the blocking needed to be a deep ball hard running offense.
We still don't have that
True, and it may be the best point about McAdoo's system. One beat or national guy (forget who) had his assistant put a stopwatch on all of Eli's attempts vs Buffalo and the average time of release was 1.8 sec!.
So that really takes the pressure off the OL to maintain pass blocks, and where we have a rook at OLT and a mediocre journeyman at ORT, but we haven't been hurt by that much.
Eli obviously can handle the fast reads, the no huddle, etc, and he obviously gets the principle - as Joe Montana once called it, about his role in Walsh's modified WCO - of getting the ball into other people's hands.
This is great for Eli, and will prolly extend his career. I was worried after 2011, and especially after that 9ers game, how much more of a pounding Eli could (or would) take. Gilbride's O was murder that way, there were a lot of passing routes that took time to develop.
The flip side, of course, is that Eli gets fewer chances to throw deep - which is one of his strengths, he throws a lovely deep ball from one sideline to the other...
When protected and the WR was on the same read
Eli would cut through teams like a surgeon.
May have been the hardest offense in the history of the
League to stop.
This offense can be stopped.
When protected and the WR was on the same read
Eli would cut through teams like a surgeon.
May have been the hardest offense in the history of the
League to stop.
This offense can be stopped.
Lots of ifs and whens were required to make that system work.
Quote:
Didn't know this! Very cool.
I just wish the running game was a little bit better, get back Cruz and get some God damn pressure on the oppsing QB and we'll be unstoppable.
(and get rid of Donnell, hehe)
3rd down conversion rates reflect 1st and 2nd down efficiency. Teams averaging 7-9 yards on first and 2nd down have much better 3rd down conversion rates than teams than teams that gain little or loose yards on 1st and 2nd down. It's a lot easier to get a first down with 3rd & 2 than it is 3rd & 12.
When protected and the WR was on the same read
Eli would cut through teams like a surgeon.
May have been the hardest offense in the history of the
League to stop.
This offense can be stopped.
The key phrase in your post "when protected." Most systems can work if the QB has all day to throw. When the other team applied pressure, Coughlin/Gilbride's system led to INTs and miscues.
It also required the Giants to establish a running game to really work well. When the Giants couldn't run, the offense could not sustain drives.
The old system was 1990s football. Giants are much better off with McAdoo--and are going to get better as McAdoo gets more experience. The guy is still incredibly young for an OC.
personnel issue***
New offense with far less pieces that's somehow making far less mistakes and finding its groove. I love Mcadoo.
Also we have new players in Flowers, Newhouse, Vereen & Harris still learning the offense. Hopefully Harris can build off of what he did last week. If he continues to play like that & Randle does the same it will really open things up for Odell.
Tom Brady & Joe Montana are hall of famers with almost exactly the same yards per completion. Brady averages 11.7 yards per completion for his career & Montana averaged 11.3.
Would you rather have him throw 30 TDs & 14 INTs with a 11.2 yard average or 18 TDs & 27 INTs with a 12 yard average?
Montana played in a different era before every rule changed to benefit the passing game. Brady is completing 75% of his passes (btw Gronk is averaging 19 yards a catch- we need three completions to go 19 yards) and is over 8 yards an attempt.
As I said, I think McAdoo is still learning, falls in love with those ultra-short routes and wastes a weapon like Beckham on 3 yard passes. McAdoo's system will take 7 yard completions on 3rd and 10. So, great, it's a completion and it's 7 yards but who gives a shit. Certainly not the defense.
Now it may be that he is not confident in the pass blocking and so limits his options. We will see as the year goes along if he opens it up. Coughlin has said publicly that the ball needs to go down the field more.
Manning's int's were up because the O line was crap, therefore the running game wasn't there and he had to throw long passes every 3rd down with little or no protection. McAdoo's style offense works with the shorter passes. If the line can continue to improve,and the can find a good all round TE (which is needed for McAdoo's style too) I hope the long passes come back. Sure, they'll be a few interceptions, but that's part of it. A balanced offense is what they need. Whether it's 4-6 yd passes or 4-6 yd runs and medium and deep passed, defenses all have areas that can be exploited. But it all starts with the front 5 or 6.
The 11.2 yard average was between last year & this year. He averaged 11.6 yards per completion last year & 10.8 this year. If you add those numbers together & divide them by 2 you get 11.2.
We are also 9th in the league in points per game so they must be doing something right. I don't know how anybody can complain about that especially without our starting WR & LT. We've also went up against a pretty good Cowboys & Skins defense & the #1 or 2 defense in the league.
Which is better?
2012 & 2013 he played 36 games. He had 44 TDs & 42 INTs while averaging 12.15 yards per completion.
2014 & 2015 he's played 20 games under McAdoo. He has 37 TDs & 15 INTs while averaging 11.2 yards per completion.
Is this really even a debate? Less then a yard difference per completion & only 7 less TDs in 16 less games.
People on here are so weird. They will literally find anything to bitch about. Throws INTs & they bitch about Eli. Stops throwing INTs & they bitch about it. Goes from throwing 1.16 INTs per game to 0.75 & fans are still complaining.
If things didn't go their way, they basically were fucked.
We haven't seen the best of this offense yet. Arrow is up on O & D.
Too much of read option stuff with the WRs could be stunting OBJs growth.
We won more on the strength of the defense than the offense.
And yes when the old O system had everytng line up perfectly it was great but this system doesnt require so many things to line up just right to function well.